It's come to my attention that -- when it comes to relationships -- many women are not very good at sealing the deal. This is because women don't close. Like bad salesmen, they tend to lead with what they want, which is unlikely to end with a sale. For better or worse, what you want doesn't matter. Rather, it's a good idea to lead with what the other person wants and frame what you want as a means to that end. Join my community: the-captains-quarters.mn.co Buy my book, "The Value of Others" Ebook: amzn.to/460uGrA Audiobook: amzn.to/3YfFwbx Paperback: amzn.to/3xQuIFK Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Subscribe to my newsletter: oriontarabanpsyd.com Social Media TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@oriontaraban Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: th-cam.com/video/WrXBzQ2HDEQ/w-d-xo.html Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: th-cam.com/channels/SduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXw.htmljoin Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #dating #women
@@etuitivemillionaireno his messaging is just off. He needs to tell women to take control of their climax to ensure they climax each time they have sex. And vet the man with words if he knows how to pleasure a woman and can ensure she climaxes. Women aren’t as motivated to have sex because it’s a gamble if they climax unlike men who get off 100 of the time. Complying with sex and it not working out because it wasn’t a curated experience is a sure fire way to kill motivation or sustainability in the sexual relationship. Women begrudgingly giving men sex to sustain the relationship or acting out of fear because he might pick someone else decreases the experience too, he can tell if she doesn’t have her heart in it, it’s not the same as a woman who is all in. Focus on the mechanics and permission of women’s sexual pleasure is the gateway to the end goal…not whatever this was.
My Grandfather, whiledating a woman younger than his youngest daughter responded to his grandson, "Grandpa Milt" He did not respond to just grandpa "What are you going to do when she turns 40?" Immediately he responded, "I will trade her in for two 20's." The thing is he enough had enough rizz, swag, and money to do it.
Once again, Orion screams in the void. Women start from the assumption they are perfect and deserve everything. They have no idea or interest to learn what men want.
🤣Facts. Plus-in case it wasn't glaringly obvious-they're telling you what they want because that's all that matters (to them). And that doesn't change at any point during a relationship.
Is that why men are always telling us only our beauty and reproductive capacity matters? The problem is we don't want to focus on that, because we KNOW men can just divorce us and leave us with the children when we aren't so beautiful and young anymore.
Problem is we have a culture that just about rules out the idea that there is any such thing as a bad wife. If a wife behaves objectively badly then the question asked is what did he do to force her to do that?
@@MohamedTarikRochdi I think this is the point of the video. It's to educate the women who are trying to bag the men they want. Granted this doesn't necessarily mean it's a permanent solution
This is one of your best videos! I work in sales so it's very relatable to me. After hearing this being said, the explains why I don't bother with most women. Every woman I ended up getting into a relationship with offer me something first. Not just sex but they took the time to figure out what I like rather than making demands on what they want. I never entertain women who come across like that.
"Why would a guy want to date you?" "I have a high paying career, a house, a car..." "Congratulations, you became the husband you wanted, but why would a guy want to date the husband you always wanted?" Repeat ad infinitum...
@@LisaCulton that's not true. Some men can't buy a house without a woman paying half the mortgage. Not most. Most women won't even offer to pay half the mortgage.
Get you some Voddie Baucham, doug Wilson, rc sproul, Paul washer, Joel Webbon, Brian Sauvé, these guys are patriarchal and from millennial to Gen x to boomer
@@yebzy Nah, most pastors these days are unreliable in terms of actually teaching the Bible, and I don't think they are good at leading their own households either.
It's still astonishing to me that you have to tell modern women, many of whom are successful and intelligent, to actually offer men what THEY want in order for the women to get what they want from men. That means what men actually want, not what women THINK they want, not what women think men are SUPPOSED to want and realizing shaming men into wanting other things isn't going to work.
Yes, the old "And what's WRONG with a 300 lb woman with 4 kids by 3 different guys? If you can't handle that, you're not a 'Real Man'"...... shaming ploy literally never works.
They've been raised to believe they're a trophy from conception, that the merit is already earned. Very few however can stand on the merits of their genetics alone.
You are absolutely right! I met a girl who did exactly what you say: shifted in later age from being sexually promiscuous to wanting a serious relationship. She dated me and I always had the impression that me or another person would have been the same for her, as long as she obtained her relationship for the final goal to achieve the wedding.
Which is not to say it's impossible to become the niche, desired product. And it becomes clear if we think of our own shopping purchases. It is probably true that any brand of toilet paper will be functional for wiping your backside, but every person probably has their one brand that they prefer. They may have started completely indifferent, but over time came to like one best. Which is also not to say to be wary for people who DON'T make that transition. Some people don't care and never will. Learn to distinguish your best customers from the others.
Yea I want the hottest youngest thing to have my children. If you’ve been with enough women you see how average they are all. Very little uniqueness between them & that’s ok.
@@SimeonsvidsThe issue is that the amount (of money, effort, time etc.) sacrificed beyond which it seems like an unfair exchange is different for different people. Most people want to give less and take more.
Anyone else also get less and less interested in romantic relationships after hearing Orion's take on them lol. I love his advice though as it helps me dismantle my prior Disney like fantasies about women and romantic relationships, thanks again Doc for this gem, fellas we got find out how to get Orion on the Joe Rogan podcast!
Lmao, yes, it does. But Dr. Taraban does a great job of distilling information and dispelling a lot of the rhetoric in this space that can be divisive. Like a lot of the talking points in the manosphere (Monkey Branching for example), Orion has done a superb job of explaining that in terms of labor and economics, and it helps you get over the resentment and forgive and move forward
@@hamilton7181 His perspective is very business-like and no one wants to be in a romantic relationship as a business. We get into romantic relationships because of our emotions and desires. Though it is important to understand the business and economics aspects of a relationship, it is not take away from the emotions. You can certainly have a woman who wants to give and love you openly and willingly and has more to offer than just touch or affection, but a true love and burning desire to have you and you the same for her. And it does not need to feel like a business, yet these aspects will still be involved in that, but it would not necessarily have to feel that way.
Happend to me last month. Single mother of 40. Good looking, but cranky and wanted upfront commitment before even flirting. We spent some time together due to circumstances. But tensions rose because I had no desire to give her a commitment. In essence she says. You are not good looking enough to have a filing with. No thanks.
She did you a favor bro, even if it was just a pump & dump in your eyes. I was with a single mother for 3 years, and will never do it again. Trust, trust, trust me it's not worth it.
A couple months back I found my old school mate, a divorcee, she said: "since we already know each other since school day, i think we should not waste time and can get married faster." 😅😅😮😮😮
My tactic on knowing if a girl is compatible with me is imagine her as a guy and or someone you find very physically unattractive, would you want to be best friends with this person if she were a guy? Or a girl that was very unattractive physically? Would you spend your weekends hanging out? I've met so many girls that I found attractive then imagined this and found the literal only thing I liked about her was her appearance. Try it and be amazed, it will save you much pain in your life if you master it.
most women are around 4..6 out of 10 - these type of sales people are terrified to close as they don't want to hear rejections. So they are just roaming around, beating around the bush hoping that a desperate customer would just purchase what they are selling, effortlessly. The fear of the anticipated rejection, my friends, is worse that the rejection itself.
Correct. The rejection itself is actually releasing and liberating. But the anticipation of a failure one has concocted in their mind through irrational thinking, is just awful
Honest question, are people usually this calculating nowadays? My husband and I met as teens not that long ago (15 years). We never had any of this on our minds. Like, I never once thought, " Better get the good cream out to sell him so he'll be hooked" sounds a bit cold. We just really liked one another and things naturally flowed from there; Orion seems to actually distill what happened pretty well (we got our needs met through one another) I suppose that's why we've gotten along so well, but laying it out like a trap just seems cold.
@@MC-ze8wj you were both lucky. The calculations usually happen subsconsciously (aka emotions and feelings). When you are lucky and in tune with your partner, you don't need to be that explicit about the process since as humans we are designed to excel in it. But when it doesn't work, you need to be more intentional, which is more calculating and less intuitive, thus this feels more cold. But overall, it's the same things happening, nothing as change since the past 100 000 years or so.
@@Hollowed2wiz Yes, we are certainly very blessed. You're right about it being subconscious. I have been thinking about it since I watched it this morning and I had a thought; I think also its that if you're well suited I think as a womn you would WANT to give him what he wants just as badly as he wants it from you and vice versa. This was my experience with my husband. We both wanted to give one another what we desired as much as the other. Trying to force it by being so calculating (like I will do this for him so he will give me x) seems like it wont work long term. Idk for sure because I've never been in any another relationship, but I suspect it's not going to end well if you dont what they want as much as they do. Just my 2c from my experience, don't know if I'm right but just what comes to mind from what I've lived. Perhaps if it never comes naturally trying to make a deliberate choice to please one another is better than being alone.
@@AnaSchultz-kx9tq I'm sure anyone of quality isn't sitting in their mother basement never going out or interacting with the opposite sex. What he said is true. People of true quality don't really have to play the "game" of dating they just are and the opposite sex will come to them.
Some years ago I hired an online dating couch who helped me a lot. The one piece of advice I never forgot was when she stated that when creating your profile, always include a list of what you have to offer a potential mate. She was adamant in stating that far too many people (primarily women) focused entirely on what they wanted but said little to nothing about what they had to offer someone else. I saw it first hand across multiple dating platforms.
Spot on. Ego can make them talk about their achievements, they can talk about how they are the complete package. They rarely talk about what qualities they can bring to a relationship because they are using their own blueprint with regard to what they want! There is a real disconnect there.
Even in person, most of the women I've talked to about relationships and asked advice from, it's always them talking about what they expect out of men. There's hardly any mention, if at all of what they have to offer in return, or how they reciprocate the man's efforts. It's always them putting the burden of fault on the man for not being good enough, despite all the good he does and not meeting *her* expectations - many of which were never communicated, we were expected to "just know" from the start. A lot of these women seek instant gratification and hold men to these egregious standards that they often don't even hold themselves to. The other thing I have noticed is a lack of problem solving skills among women. They would rather just throw away a perfectly good relationship over the most petty inconveniences, even if it's temporary or completely fixable.
Evolutionary instinct for a man is to have unlimited access to sexual opportunities so that he can spread his seeds far and wide. Evolutionary instinct for a woman is to collect the top quality Alpha male seeds and then find a Beta male (if her Alpha male does not care) who will provide for her and the children in exchange for some level of sexual access from her.
Orion did a video about his list of 4 prerequisites: 1. sex 2. beeing sweet 3. feminine and caring 4. EMOTIONALY STABLE ... something like that. And I agree
I was afraid you'd be one of those YT Channels that tip-toe or sugar coat when speaking directly to females. You spoke nothing but facts, you've gained a new faithful subscriber
lol they still won’t settle for simp , they still expect a alpha. Even if they settle for a simp, women would resent him because they think they should do better because of their past
Even at that stage, they try to optimize for the best available option. That by itself is normal behavior and makes sense. But, I have observed that women are awful at determining what will benefit them in the long run. As women are only loyal to their feelings at any given time, it comes down to their feelings about the options that they have at that moment. Ultimately, everyone is as loyal as their options!
@dontcallthemliberals3316 you are right. Pretty much everyone under the age of 18. It's almost like it's a developmental stage that some people will go through, and some will stay in.
As a male, sometimes I've haven't found something in the woman to close the collaboration your describe about. Many women don't have that much to offer other than kisses, a body and company? I suppose. It's very different when what drives your interest on someone is a deep common interest, being intellectual, existential o whatever. Shallow people have shallow relationships, shallow lives.
@@Papi-j2z because that is the audience for what this video is targeting. transactional relationships, which is common for those either too ignorant to flesh themselves out in the dating pool. but tbh, it is very rare to find and you must cherish a relationship built on those mutual understandings. This video is good advice for men who need to get their needs met transactionally. Society doesn’t operate in the way by women leading with sex in order to secure a relationship, and it never should I.E: look at arranged marriages and marriage culture pre 1960’s
Indeed, women enjoy being seduced by men. However, sometimes a woman's approach feels as though she's entitled to your interest because she's interested in you.
Some of us realize we’re so attractive we don’t have to try to seduce cuz we already do so naturally. That is how these situations should be played, not in a way that favors the woman like Orion is trying to frame here
That is very true. One time some acquaintance women tried to set me up with another of their friends that came into the bar. I was on friendly terms with her. But I wasn't really attracted to her in that way. But when her friend asked if I would be interested, I sorta said 'sure', in not wanting to be rude. Anyway, I never pursued it or asked her out. A couple of weeks later, this girl that was interested in me just un-friended me on facebook. For one thing, if she was so interested in me, then why didn't she ever try to hit on me or come up to me and ask me out? So yes, entitled and had an overinflated sense of her own attractiveness. The friend that initially asked if I would be interested in her also eventually unfollowed me on instagram as well. We never had any drama or issue either.
@@timetheory84 The sense of entitlement in dating can cause some women to feel insecure and vulnerable when they’re rejected. Instead of doing some self-reflection on why they were rejected, they may just deflect and blame men for their issues. Sadly. This dynamic happens a lot in society. The only person responsible for your love life is you. That’s it.
@@timetheory84Not entitled, they just didn't humiliate themselves like men wrongly are used to do. No one should insist in a dating, we try once and If atraction exists It works instantly. If doesn't,forget and move on. This is the best way to deal with It, men should learn that
Actually most people who aproach think like that. In latin america men react poorly when rejected, get angry at the women. And that's ok as long as the person is not violent towards the crush, just ghost them and move on
Sounds about right, I’ve said this time and time again. When I listen to women always talking about relationships and marriage, it’s always from a one sided perspective for what they benefit from (via marriage, kids, house, stability, emotional stability, consistency of presence, etc) but no woman ever mentions what she can do to maintain those benefits she desires. They have too much of a “me me me” complex.
Very true but on the other hand I'm not sure I have anything special to offer her either. Women almost always have more friends and potential dating partners than men do so saying "I'm a good friend, nice guy, great partner, etc" isn't good enough. I admit that I'm done caring about random strangers and I'm certainly not going to uproot my life for a female that I hardly know. I have very little desire for anything more than a FWB situation but they are almost impossible to find and even harder to keep.
@@paulsmith5611 -- Remember women want emotional experience from Alpha Chad and stable providership from Beta Brad. So tell her if you want to be Chad or Brad or both combined.
@@paulsmith5611 I am a woman, and this is the honesty from a man I respect. You are correct in your reflection. Besides a man’s money and secure lifestyle they can provide, there is little a man can actually offer a woman that she desires. If you are so intent on your own gratification then pay for it. These services exist. FWB for a woman is pointless, but you already know this. Sex with most men for women is not even pleasant or fun.
@@Chunkypooch Yeah, as long as neither men nor women want children, we don't really have anything to do with each other at this point. Very few men or women will ever get what they desire, since by definition the majority of men and women are mid. For most men, dopamine from (video games + 🌽) > dopamine from your average (invisible) woman and for most women dopamine from (social media + girlfriends) > dopamine from your average (invisible) man. Dr. Taraban has discussed this as well.
Love this take man. My strategy is Open, hook, pump emotion, laugh laugh. Soft close, pump emotions, be bold get physical. Escalate slowly and let her beg for you to close.
I love this guys stuff but I am so annoyed by the fact that his videos are likely pushed toward the male audience by the algorithm, so women don't see stuff like this. So much wisdom & he speaks in a way that makes so much sense.
I agree completely and it suits both nen abs women. Once a young adult male complained about getting girls. That weekend there was a concert by a local but incredibly popular boy band, so I asked him if he was going. His answer, "no, that’s a show's for girls." Then I took out footage from Elvis Presley and the Beetles. Look! When do you think would be the best time to find a woman? When she is with her boyfriend or there, surrounded by other screaming women wanting a man?
@TheBraunzone shared it with two possibilities though In the opposite direction: Watch out for guys looking to find women under the influence of fame. If you're open to finding a guy, look for the one who's shows self-control and holds off the crowd to help you find the exit.
Like O. Taraban has often said though, young women don't usually ask about how to find a guy like young men do. The caveat takes the lead before introducing the "what to look for if/when".
I grew up without a male role model and mentor. Man, did that make it tough! It took until about age 23 to figure it out. I learned to toss the blue pill BS and all the useless and detrimental garbage my dorky friends and brothers told me. If I had an 11-year-old son, I would watch videos like this together with him, and discuss afterward.
" If I had a 11-year-old son.." And if you tell him to make up his own mind afterwards, you're golden my guy. I think you're onto something. I mean being there for your own kid doesn't sound like a bad idea at all to me. Saying that as someone who grew up without a male role model also.
My dad was not very helpful growing up. He died when I was 32, then I became a man. Got married the next year & had kids 10 years later. Wish I had woken up sooner. Using my older age & wisdom to raise my son & daughter with the mentorship I never had. ❤
Excellent as always Orion. I also found the statement that’ You had this need or set of emotions before we ever met ‘ really helpful in cutting my habit of trying to fix any problems with my gf, feeling it’s my responsibility. Thinking that it’s not because of me that an issue is arising gives the situation much more space.
I was stationed in the Philippines back in the 1980's (U.S. military) and would offer a nice girl a good home cooked meal for staying the night with me. It almost always worked, and these were some good lookin gals! She was happy sharing an American meal with me and I was happy for her lovin - best years of my life!
another nuisance not mentioned in this video (but he emphasizes in his book) is the same woman treats different men differently. the one she is fully attracted to, she never demands anything but does everything to please him. whereas a guy who marginal at best to her, she'll have a long list of things she demands from him. if you're the latter man, run as fast as you can because your divorce will be very costly because she never loved you but only you as a way to get resources she thinks she "deserved" - tolerating a husband she never really wanted to be with in the first place.
Thanks, Orion. As a man, I can appreciate what you're doing. I'd say you also hit an equally important point which is a woman's girlfriends and society feeding them bad information. This is perhaps the root issue and needed skill - discernment of the truth. This could be the holy grail of relationship success for many ladies.
Problem with sales is that they're often selling crap, just scammers who work on appearances, although it can work, it's a bad idea long term because the product is exaggerated and usually fails to meet expectations. This is common with relationships as well, I can't find any other reason why it doesn't last long, same with men driving nice cars and wearing flash clothes but really don't have much in the bank. Even women join in as well with make-up, it's so superficial, but a good product is really what's important, especially in the long run.
Orion is a sales man for desperate men. He keeps you in the loop of playing a game that favors the woman, that way when it doesn’t work out, you can come back and watch more of his videos to figure out “where it went wrong”. This video is a good example of that. He takes all the pressure off the woman here with his framework, and this is what contributes to them having their heads through the roof
@@marcusmcgraw3519 He tries to be a realist - this is just how it is. All channels soon go down a path of making money and self promotion anyway, it's not about the subject anymore, it's about themselves and keeping the business going. And inevitably, they lose sight of what they were really about, then again, many dating channels here are just scames to begin with - picking on weak and gullible men, and taking their money.
@ I’ve seen your comments on Casey’s videos, and even though I’d say that sometimes you choose to overlook some of the points he makes, I have to respect your ability to notice the manipulation techniques used. Notice how much different (and more tolerable) Orion’s channel was before he went the direction he did with gearing it towards dating. You have to be able to examine the motive for his actions (and videos) rather than just looking at it by itself in a vacuum. You will paint a much more complete picture as a result, and it will tell you how to treat the matter
@@marcusmcgraw3519 If you care to study Zander more carefully, you should realize he's actually a very childish person, he's from a sales background and applies it to his channel. Really quite feeble minded, not very conscientious either, he understands appearances though but doesn't really know much aside from all the material he's obviously taken from other dating coaches. Orion is a psychologist by profession and does know the depths of the human psyche, a bit too mechanical for my liking, but he far more objective and clear headed than most other channels.
If you care to study Zander more carefully, you should realize he's actually a very childish person, he's from a sales background and applies it to his channel. Really quite feeble minded, not very conscientious either, he understands appearances though but doesn't really know much aside from all the material he's obviously taken from other dating coaches. Orion is a psychologist by profession and does know the depths of the human psyche, a bit too mechanical for my liking, but he far more objective and clear headed than most other channels.
The problem is a misunderstanding of what the basic deal is. The woman gives the man exclusive sexual access and support in exchange for provision and protection. To close the deal particularly with a guy 30-50 yrs old she has to understand that if she likes some most of the other girls like him too. She has to show that she is the best option and understand that the days of being 20 when anyone who said yes to a 20 year old man was probably his best option.
I would put it like this. Imagine you hiring someone to perform a service. They ask you to pay up front before the service or job is done. People are far more likely to do a more quality job when payment is given after the job. Paying upfront tends to send a message to the person performing the service results in a loss of ambition. People are far more likely to do better quality work if they know they have to wait for the payment until the job is done. This dove tails into the fact that women lose their ambition once they have secured marriage. They received their guarantee, so now they can pull back the reigns and lose ambition. They secured what they wanted, so there no need to try anymore
Most men become fat & lazy after marriage. They can finally stop buying those flowers & watch the game instead of going to the gym… oh what’s that, divorce? 😂
Too egotistical, with a solipsistic mindset, and narcissistic tendencies. Thats why they haven't figured it out yet, although conceptually simple. I think some have a disdain towards men, a competitiveness, vendettas, or as i initially mentioned, narcissistic and theyre solely thinking of themselves which is most accurate.
@bryanutility9609 You're slightly narcissistic? What does that mean, and because you're better than average, so that automatically means you can't empathize/compromise and be realistic. Play in your lane, end of story, don't over value yourself like narcissistic people do. None of what you said makes sense. You conceptually don't understand the concept of the video.
You're slightly narcissistic? What does that mean, and because you're better than average, so that automatically means you can't empathize/compromise and be realistic. Play in your lane, end of story, don't over value yourself like narcissistic people do. None of what you said makes sense. You conceptually don't understand the concept of the video.
@@bryanutility9609 Go spend some time around people who are better than you then, get some humility back and enjoy the process of turning it into confident humility. Life gets a lot easier when you can openly admit there are people more xyz-er than you; you no longer have to carry that burden of performance around.
Sadly, they are never worth it 😢 The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you.” -Sahih Al-Bukhari 29
I noticed your more intentional and less monotoned end of video “calling card”. Very well done. It actually made me want to listen again to the same suggestion to join the captain’s quarters because is sounded different than the standard catchphrase and seemed more like a genuine suggestion or persuasive effort. Like a conversation rather than a simple “like, favorite, and subscribe” that we all are so used to hearing. You do very good work and I look forward to seeing how else you adapt and grow. Big fan!
He's helping women. They should lead with a product or service that can impact a man positively. Its much better than saying you're the table or you bring yourself to the table. A lot of men want the best for women. So they can have a fulfilling life. Not be abused by cold hearted people
Thanks for your common sense. When will men realize that Orion is keeping you in a game that favors the woman to capitalize on you? That way, when it inevitably goes wrong, you can go watch his videos to figure out why. This helps him, not men
@@SNAPivy it's censorship. Sometimes you can replace letters with numbers. I think he's helping w0m3n. Cos he wants women to live a fulfilled life. They'll do this by offering men something of value, that could add to men's lives. This is something women don't know
He’s advising women to lower themselves for men who would never amount to them. Sometimes he has decent things to say… other times you get a window into his deviant mind.
This is completely incorrect. There are no attractive behaviors only attractive men. Women will tolerate you leading with anything you want if you are valuable to her. It's actually a good indicator of whether she actually likes you or not. If you can lead with what you want and she likes it then she likes you.
Ohhhhh! This one’s a good one!! It will take some getting used to on this idea primarily because this is not what I’ve been taught and told all of my life. I was told “don’t give a man what he wants early in dating.”
You don't have to give it early (although this is a strategy that can work sometimes), just that your "sales pitch" should acknowledge that when you try to close a deal, just saying "I want sex/long-term relationship" from the beginning doesn't tend to work very well
Whether that's a good strategy or not really depends on the man and also on your past. No man wants to find out that you waited longer with him than with someone else. So yes, if you haven't been "quick" before, take your time, it's what makes you special. But if you've already had spontaneous ONS I'd seriously recommend against making *men you want to be with* wait. However, whatever the situation, you do have to at least acknowledge what you're selling. If you're selling a house, you don't necessarily have to allow the buyer to start living in it the next day. But if you don't at least acknowledge that you are selling a house, good luck with persuading the potential buyer to take out a mortgage and handing all his money to you!
Giving it early is not necessary. What *is* necessary is being real about why the man is there and convincing him you will be real about it. Cut the good times to hassle ratio and don't demean and shame him over his sexual interest (God! Most women get each and all of those ideas stuck in reverse gear!) Any good man - - and most other men - - will bite that hook hard.
Orion Taraban has achieved the feat of producing top-quality videos while creating an extraordinary book on the same theme, but without saying the same thing. The value of others is one of the most lucid books I've ever read. I very, very strongly encourage you to do so. It's a huge pleasure anytime I open it. I really mean what I say .
All of this is great advise but until laws change ( marriage laws, child support laws, alimony laws, criminal persecution of men for sexual desire laws, same persecution for the same crimes laws, equal legal opportunity laws, punishment for emotional abuse of men laws etc.), quality men will pass on it. This is a good video for beta simps who can’t get a woman.
3:48 So we know *that* women value emotional experiences; could you make a video on *why* women value emotional experiences? I don’t see an evolutionary reason for why a sense of humor would be on the same level of wealth, looks, or power.
as a former McKinsey and BCG consultant, you've got half of the solution. sometimes, a woman's sales pitch is too self-centered. my guess the bigger problem is she's targeting a man (customer) who is beyond her offering ("most women aren't attractive enough to get what they want") - trying to sell a Toyota to a Rolls-Royce buyer. why do they keep getting ghosted after a few booty calls and not get the message those guys just weren't that into you? "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."
Can you share what else you learned working with these large management consulting firms? Applying to sales etc, whether in context of women, or not. Thank you in advance :)
@@MrKastroni -- hence those women just share those top men. Then when her SMV drops, she ropes in a Beta provider whom she had rejected 5 years earlier. But she secretly keeps in touch with her Alpha.
@thisisnotoleg 1. observe and accept reality not what you want reality to be. too many silly tiktok videos of delusional women. however, women do want men they can respect and brag to their friends. either make yourself more attractive or lower your expectations (women's hotness). 2. market segmentation and niche positioning - very few men are popular with all women so it's a more successful strategy to target those niches that might be interested in you (I'm asian-american and stick to asian women). 3. key buying factors - what are the factors that your target women want in a boyfriend/husband? I'm sure there are many more...
After listening to this, I've had a deep realization that I did both of these things and in the end it was just a loss loss. Just change me in ways I couldn't know.
A corallary to this is that once the contract is signed, the seller is not bound to keep offering the enticement. (i.e. You can wind up stuck in a sexless marriage).
Yea make sure you like the sex before marriage & make sure you both want marriage before the sex. Never stop working on yourself. just finished my workout: wish my wife would try a little harder but I can’t stand being out of shape no matter how old I get.
I believe I have an even better concept: figure out what you are missing emotionally and fix that within yourself. Become your own best friend, your rock. Need no one. Then when you find someone you enjoy being with, just enjoy the experience. When you’re happy within yourself, you’ll naturally want to give to anyone else even if they don’t give back. If they keep taking, walk away. If they give as well, stay and enjoy it. This channel is always interesting. Thank you.
I think this is very correct from a practical standpoint in the beginning and short term after marriage if marriage and long term relationship is the goal. The other issue is the long term when someone does not desire to fulfill the original agreed upon contract. This I think becomes a common issue and has to be approached with love and discussed how is this problem resolved and many people it seems do not have the resolve to se it through to the end - "till death do we part".
@@LisaCultonyou have 100+ comments on this channel with nothing but you being disagreeable and argumentative … I know without a doubt your killing the batteries on your toys & drinking yourself to sleep with wine out of loneliness.
@@LisaCultonkeep telling yourself that. You already know it’s over with old lady so now you flood social media being disagreeable and argumentative all over these spaces hoping younger ladies follow behind your own cluelessness. I see right through it the wall never fails…
1:52 NGL, that salesman would get my business sooner by explicitly telling me what they wanted as long as they followed with willingness to get me to what I want. My mental setup works best with clear rules.
I once worked as an insurance salesman and when asked by the customer what I wanted, I answered "to sell." Got a good laugh out of him from that, I think he appreciated the honesty :D Did not sell though, I was a terrible salesman.
❎ Manipulating is influencing someone for YOUR benefit WITHOUT their consent. ✅ Educating is influencing someone for THEIR benefit WITH their consent. 🙏 Thank you Dr. Orion Taraban for successfully educating me.
I love that you have to dress up "have actual empathy" in so many words and have to frame it any number of other ways, and it still won't land. Oh well.
I dropped a comment on Pearl's channel yesterday; this video relates to it so I'll leave it here too... < Ok I'm gonna weigh in on the PUA thing and tell you exactly what's wrong with it. (As someone who used to pick up rather a lot) As a PUA doing cold approach, you are starting at less than zero. Any adult knows that 99% of the time if someone you don't know approaches you and there's no context for it... they want something from you. THEY want to GET something from YOU. Almost never do they want to give you something of value. They want to TAKE something of value. Salesmen, random losers et al occupy that space. So... the natural response is defensive. As it should be. This is why context is important. Situations where it's relatively natural to say hi or share an observation, etc. are much better. But overall, cold approach sux. Way too high a rejection rate. This is not a worthy use of a man's time. >
As a child I was aware that the woman I wanted would want a man better than I was. So I ignored the chasing of women and chased self-improvement. Turns out that is all you need to do to increase your value and even if you end up alone, you're much more of a badass.
You are putting the cart waaaaay before the horse. Women don't even think about what men are getting out of a relationship. That would require compassion and trying to understand what it's like to be in a man's shoes on a day to day basis. That's impossible to do for anyone who is totally fixated on themselves 24/7
With all the knowledge he has gave and since i did not have a father im starting to see this guy as it hahaha women advices for men are the worst, thanks god I've found him, dr K and Jordan.
@@zacklewis342as an introvert I love hookup apps. I hate being social & trying to meet people IRL. Who knows if someone is even single. Huge waste of time.
I have tried both approaches, being direct in what I want on the first date and not being too direct. I think Orion's advice totally makes sense if you want to attract an avoidant man or a man who is highly desired. I would advise against that, in most cases it will lead to pain. Being honest and the other person still wanting to see you and date you is the winning strategy for a peaceful life. Leading with sex attracts the wrong people!
As someone who dated some, but not much.. as a person who experiences attraction only after emotional connection... There has been no women in my life who would want to connect with me on a deeper level, without diving into the bed with her first. They often say, sex is the reward for men, and women are the gate keepers.. But what I learned is that this is not entirely true. Women definitely need sex to proof to themselves that someone is worth being emotionally attached to. Disclaimer: I'm not saying you're wrong. No not at all. There can be many reasons why its different, including culture. I'm just saying my limited experience definitely contradicts your anecdote.
Orion's advice is not about being direct or indirect. It is about beginning your negotiation with an understanding of the other person's needs. The mention of sex was a common enough example, not the point of his video.
If it’s a man who is looking for long term relationships it will likely not result in pain. The issue is women are trying to lead this way with desirable men who don’t want true long term commitment despite them saying they do because they’ll say whatever they need to say in order to get sex. so how do you know truly? You go for men who are in communities that have moral values such as genuine religious communities. Not just men who claimed to be religious, but men who truly practice what they preach.
Sex at the start is never an issue, I would never even mention it in the first few dates, but it's necessary before you start a commited relationship. If sex is a problem at the start, as a man, you can't expect a good future with her and should just leave. So I can't lead with sex, and she can't lead with: "I need this and that from you", by the way these are very basic and expected standart needs, you shouldn't have to talk about it in the first few dates, but you should align you expectations before commiting.
You watched the video and got the wrong message. Still stuck on what you want, this time you're just being indirect about it. Orion tells you to forget what you want for a second and try to figure out what He wants, then use that to get what you want. Just because he's been with you physically doesn't mean he'll commit to you. Figure out what he wants in someone he's willing to commit to and forget about what you want till he sees you have what he wants.
It's come to my attention that -- when it comes to relationships -- many women are not very good at sealing the deal. This is because women don't close. Like bad salesmen, they tend to lead with what they want, which is unlikely to end with a sale. For better or worse, what you want doesn't matter. Rather, it's a good idea to lead with what the other person wants and frame what you want as a means to that end.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #dating #women
How do we as men cancel the sale and avoid having our tires slashed?
All 💃are 10s and they are all beautiful in their own unique ways. Not!!! Doc is trying to get cancelled. A lot of people don't like the truth
@@etuitivemillionaire I don't want this channel getting cancelled or banned or whatever.
@@manishchandola6468 I was being ironic.
@@etuitivemillionaireno his messaging is just off. He needs to tell women to take control of their climax to ensure they climax each time they have sex. And vet the man with words if he knows how to pleasure a woman and can ensure she climaxes. Women aren’t as motivated to have sex because it’s a gamble if they climax unlike men who get off 100 of the time. Complying with sex and it not working out because it wasn’t a curated experience is a sure fire way to kill motivation or sustainability in the sexual relationship. Women begrudgingly giving men sex to sustain the relationship or acting out of fear because he might pick someone else decreases the experience too, he can tell if she doesn’t have her heart in it, it’s not the same as a woman who is all in. Focus on the mechanics and permission of women’s sexual pleasure is the gateway to the end goal…not whatever this was.
My father was a salesman from the 1950's and said that we are all salesmen daily.
Some better than others
My Grandfather, whiledating a woman younger than his youngest daughter responded to his grandson, "Grandpa Milt" He did not respond to just grandpa "What are you going to do when she turns 40?" Immediately he responded, "I will trade her in for two 20's." The thing is he enough had enough rizz, swag, and money to do it.
I see most women leading with what the man wants and then taking it away once he commits.
Which is why you should never 100% commit. Sure, lover her, live together, make children. But always keep a part of you to yourself
@@maxk880 hell no dont live together!
Ya moving in together is a rookie mistake
She likely had no attraction in the first place.
@@fivebooks8498 this is facts
Don't sell a product ... sell a solution to a problem.
Listen to the customer.
Once again, Orion screams in the void. Women start from the assumption they are perfect and deserve everything. They have no idea or interest to learn what men want.
🤣Facts.
Plus-in case it wasn't glaringly obvious-they're telling you what they want because that's all that matters (to them). And that doesn't change at any point during a relationship.
Is that why men are always telling us only our beauty and reproductive capacity matters? The problem is we don't want to focus on that, because we KNOW men can just divorce us and leave us with the children when we aren't so beautiful and young anymore.
If one out of 200 or 300 heed this message. It means that we get two more happy people in this world and that's good enough.
Problem is we have a culture that just about rules out the idea that there is any such thing as a bad wife. If a wife behaves objectively badly then the question asked is what did he do to force her to do that?
@@MohamedTarikRochdi I think this is the point of the video. It's to educate the women who are trying to bag the men they want. Granted this doesn't necessarily mean it's a permanent solution
This is one of your best videos! I work in sales so it's very relatable to me. After hearing this being said, the explains why I don't bother with most women. Every woman I ended up getting into a relationship with offer me something first. Not just sex but they took the time to figure out what I like rather than making demands on what they want. I never entertain women who come across like that.
Best book on sales?
@@seetsamolapo5600how to make friends and influence people. Classic for sales
@@seetsamolapo5600 "The psychology of selling" by Brian Tracy is a really good one
"Why would a guy want to date you?"
"I have a high paying career, a house, a car..."
"Congratulations, you became the husband you wanted, but why would a guy want to date the husband you always wanted?"
Repeat ad infinitum...
‘ Yes, I understand your need for my house and half my earnings, but what does that mean to me?’
😁
I took half her earnings and all the shit in divorce. You don't have to settle for this, my dudes.
Most men can't buy a house unless a woman is paying half the mortgage.
@@LisaCulton but they sure as hell can take half even if they don’t
@@LisaCulton that's not true. Some men can't buy a house without a woman paying half the mortgage. Not most. Most women won't even offer to pay half the mortgage.
I’m simple words, he’s suggesting every woman to be humble…what a Gem
Only father time can dish that out😊
That's helpful.
They humble around early thirties.
Humble and their cake too
Something that only creates problems for those who 😊.
My pastor has arrived for the day
I understand you 😂😂
i mean you should also be going to church tho
Get you some Voddie Baucham, doug Wilson, rc sproul, Paul washer, Joel Webbon, Brian Sauvé, these guys are patriarchal and from millennial to Gen x to boomer
@@yebzyA Pastor is not a psychologist
@@yebzy Nah, most pastors these days are unreliable in terms of actually teaching the Bible, and I don't think they are good at leading their own households either.
It's still astonishing to me that you have to tell modern women, many of whom are successful and intelligent, to actually offer men what THEY want in order for the women to get what they want from men. That means what men actually want, not what women THINK they want, not what women think men are SUPPOSED to want and realizing shaming men into wanting other things isn't going to work.
Yes, the old "And what's WRONG with a 300 lb woman with 4 kids by 3 different guys? If you can't handle that, you're not a 'Real Man'"...... shaming ploy literally never works.
They've been raised to believe they're a trophy from conception, that the merit is already earned. Very few however can stand on the merits of their genetics alone.
You bet!
Much of it involves our needs, and many are on beginning level 1
its backwards advice. the woman is hte prize not the man. most men are very immature and not emotionally developed - a waste of time
You are absolutely right! I met a girl who did exactly what you say: shifted in later age from being sexually promiscuous to wanting a serious relationship. She dated me and I always had the impression that me or another person would have been the same for her, as long as she obtained her relationship for the final goal to achieve the wedding.
Which is not to say it's impossible to become the niche, desired product. And it becomes clear if we think of our own shopping purchases. It is probably true that any brand of toilet paper will be functional for wiping your backside, but every person probably has their one brand that they prefer. They may have started completely indifferent, but over time came to like one best.
Which is also not to say to be wary for people who DON'T make that transition. Some people don't care and never will. Learn to distinguish your best customers from the others.
Anybody with insecurities anywhere does that.
Men fall in love with the person, women fall in love with the process and the goals. The men are interchangeable.
Yea I want the hottest youngest thing to have my children. If you’ve been with enough women you see how average they are all. Very little uniqueness between them & that’s ok.
@@ElimEx1Men fall in love with hot sex & everything else is fake
If you don't realize you're a means to her ends, you're a fool.
A fair exchange is not a robbery, she’s a means to your ends
@@Simeonsvids100%
If you are employed, you are a means to your boss’s end, you’re a tool
Only way not to exploit each other is that your ends cannot be lesser (satisfaction, toys) but must be greater (God). Then it works
@@SimeonsvidsThe issue is that the amount (of money, effort, time etc.) sacrificed beyond which it seems like an unfair exchange is different for different people. Most people want to give less and take more.
BRAVO 👏🏽 Orion! Keep speaking truth using behavioral science!
Anyone else also get less and less interested in romantic relationships after hearing Orion's take on them lol. I love his advice though as it helps me dismantle my prior Disney like fantasies about women and romantic relationships, thanks again Doc for this gem, fellas we got find out how to get Orion on the Joe Rogan podcast!
That would be epic. Men can have a family if they actually stop being weak. Most men doesn’t even know how to dress well 😂
Lmao, yes, it does. But Dr. Taraban does a great job of distilling information and dispelling a lot of the rhetoric in this space that can be divisive. Like a lot of the talking points in the manosphere (Monkey Branching for example), Orion has done a superb job of explaining that in terms of labor and economics, and it helps you get over the resentment and forgive and move forward
Yes !
Yes. I'd much rather hire an "escort" than date.
@@hamilton7181 His perspective is very business-like and no one wants to be in a romantic relationship as a business. We get into romantic relationships because of our emotions and desires. Though it is important to understand the business and economics aspects of a relationship, it is not take away from the emotions.
You can certainly have a woman who wants to give and love you openly and willingly and has more to offer than just touch or affection, but a true love and burning desire to have you and you the same for her. And it does not need to feel like a business, yet these aspects will still be involved in that, but it would not necessarily have to feel that way.
Maybe it's just me, but "Orion Taraban" is such a badass name.
It really is lol
I don’t even know if Tarantino could come up with a better name for a character
I have a theory his parents were metalheads. He would have been born around the time the Metallica song Orion came out. 1986 or so.
@@derekgusoff6768I'm so glad to see I'm not the only metalhead who made that connection 😊
Bad ass name all right. It brings your ears to attention for sure. Let's Go Orion...
Happend to me last month. Single mother of 40. Good looking, but cranky and wanted upfront commitment before even flirting. We spent some time together due to circumstances. But tensions rose because I had no desire to give her a commitment. In essence she says. You are not good looking enough to have a filing with. No thanks.
She did you a favor bro, even if it was just a pump & dump in your eyes. I was with a single mother for 3 years, and will never do it again. Trust, trust, trust me it's not worth it.
Mother of 40??? That's alotta kids, bruh....😂
@@runningwarrior5468 I think the record is a Russian woman with 54.
@@runningwarrior5468let’s hope he ment 40 years old haha
A couple months back I found my old school mate, a divorcee, she said: "since we already know each other since school day, i think we should not waste time and can get married faster."
😅😅😮😮😮
Every time I have the feeling that I don't need your work anymore, but every time it hits me the same way. Thank you for that
"Does this fit with your experience?" Why Yes..... yes it does !
Lol man your comment have me bawling with laughter
Defo always always frickin does 😂
My tactic on knowing if a girl is compatible with me is imagine her as a guy and or someone you find very physically unattractive, would you want to be best friends with this person if she were a guy? Or a girl that was very unattractive physically? Would you spend your weekends hanging out? I've met so many girls that I found attractive then imagined this and found the literal only thing I liked about her was her appearance.
Try it and be amazed, it will save you much pain in your life if you master it.
Once she is mad or in divorce proceedings she’s on mission to close your life
😂😢
That's why you have to defang the snake before you even start something.
If she’s dumping you at because you deserve it. 😂
@@bryanutility9609 i dumped her
@@bryanutility9609 actually I dumped her before the level of nuisance crossed over me
most women are around 4..6 out of 10 - these type of sales people are terrified to close as they don't want to hear rejections. So they are just roaming around, beating around the bush hoping that a desperate customer would just purchase what they are selling, effortlessly. The fear of the anticipated rejection, my friends, is worse that the rejection itself.
What you are missing is that they are still in demand. Billion dollar demand
Correct. The rejection itself is actually releasing and liberating. But the anticipation of a failure one has concocted in their mind through irrational thinking, is just awful
And how would you rate yourself? On a scale of 1-10?
@@ChickFenwick I'm a piece of garbage. Nothing to see here lol
@@ChickFenwick he looks average. Like the VAST majority of human adults
"the cat decides what milk is good". Classic from Dr. Orion
🥛🐈🐈⬛
Honest question, are people usually this calculating nowadays? My husband and I met as teens not that long ago (15 years). We never had any of this on our minds. Like, I never once thought, " Better get the good cream out to sell him so he'll be hooked" sounds a bit cold. We just really liked one another and things naturally flowed from there; Orion seems to actually distill what happened pretty well (we got our needs met through one another) I suppose that's why we've gotten along so well, but laying it out like a trap just seems cold.
@@MC-ze8wj you were both lucky. The calculations usually happen subsconsciously (aka emotions and feelings).
When you are lucky and in tune with your partner, you don't need to be that explicit about the process since as humans we are designed to excel in it.
But when it doesn't work, you need to be more intentional, which is more calculating and less intuitive, thus this feels more cold.
But overall, it's the same things happening, nothing as change since the past 100 000 years or so.
@@Hollowed2wiz Yes, we are certainly very blessed. You're right about it being subconscious. I have been thinking about it since I watched it this morning and I had a thought; I think also its that if you're well suited I think as a womn you would WANT to give him what he wants just as badly as he wants it from you and vice versa. This was my experience with my husband. We both wanted to give one another what we desired as much as the other. Trying to force it by being so calculating (like I will do this for him so he will give me x) seems like it wont work long term. Idk for sure because I've never been in any another relationship, but I suspect it's not going to end well if you dont what they want as much as they do. Just my 2c from my experience, don't know if I'm right but just what comes to mind from what I've lived. Perhaps if it never comes naturally trying to make a deliberate choice to please one another is better than being alone.
@@Hollowed2wiz idk why my reply was censored:(
Quality sells itself.
Not quit. In a world of propaganda, those who don't advertise end forgoten
@@AnaSchultz-kx9tq True. A quality product won't sell if nobody knows it exists.
@@AnaSchultz-kx9tq I'm sure anyone of quality isn't sitting in their mother basement never going out or interacting with the opposite sex. What he said is true. People of true quality don't really have to play the "game" of dating they just are and the opposite sex will come to them.
Some years ago I hired an online dating couch who helped me a lot. The one piece of advice I never forgot was when she stated that when creating your profile, always include a list of what you have to offer a potential mate. She was adamant in stating that far too many people (primarily women) focused entirely on what they wanted but said little to nothing about what they had to offer someone else. I saw it first hand across multiple dating platforms.
Spot on. Ego can make them talk about their achievements, they can talk about how they are the complete package. They rarely talk about what qualities they can bring to a relationship because they are using their own blueprint with regard to what they want! There is a real disconnect there.
Even in person, most of the women I've talked to about relationships and asked advice from, it's always them talking about what they expect out of men. There's hardly any mention, if at all of what they have to offer in return, or how they reciprocate the man's efforts. It's always them putting the burden of fault on the man for not being good enough, despite all the good he does and not meeting *her* expectations - many of which were never communicated, we were expected to "just know" from the start. A lot of these women seek instant gratification and hold men to these egregious standards that they often don't even hold themselves to. The other thing I have noticed is a lack of problem solving skills among women. They would rather just throw away a perfectly good relationship over the most petty inconveniences, even if it's temporary or completely fixable.
maybe its just me but sex is just a pre-requisite for entertaining a relationship....there is still a long list of necessary atributes after it
Indeed. Some women might be aware that offer of sex would get them far but it completely derails them when they find out you want for more than that.
Yup. A relationship without sex is a *friend*-ship.
Getting sex at the start is never a problem, it's after marriage the problem.
Evolutionary instinct for a man is to have unlimited access to sexual opportunities so that he can spread his seeds far and wide. Evolutionary instinct for a woman is to collect the top quality Alpha male seeds and then find a Beta male (if her Alpha male does not care) who will provide for her and the children in exchange for some level of sexual access from her.
Orion did a video about his list of 4 prerequisites:
1. sex
2. beeing sweet
3. feminine and caring
4. EMOTIONALY STABLE
...
something like that. And I agree
im a 19 year old from all the way from south africa learning the art of life here , so thank you
80% (at least) of life is learning all the tricks. be wary...
only you can and will look after your interests.
😂south africa 🇿🇦 where. ? 😅
@@pullshow.. just around Joburg , bet you from SA too mos' 🤣🫰
🇿🇦 EC
When are you going back?
Orion never fails to deliver insightfull videos.
Prior to the women’s movement, they all instinctively knew this and practiced it too. Something changed
What changed was the introduction Jewish propaganda into the culture.
Yes men became weak and gave into their movement
They were trained by society and other women to think they're entitled to everything they want, as Orion just explained.
They needed marriage to survive without jobs. Now they don't,so your days of being served are over. Deal with it
They're married to the government now.
Great advise, Orion. Give people what they want and you will get what you want. 😊
The world is open to you if you can be useful and friendly to people you want things from.
I was afraid you'd be one of those YT Channels that tip-toe or sugar coat when speaking directly to females.
You spoke nothing but facts, you've gained a new faithful subscriber
I am a woman. I love Dr.Orion's content. Its very helpful. Thank you❤❤❤
You using for manipulation ?
All man know this since they end 7 years. :D
@@spilleditI use manipulation all the time to get what I want. Why is that bad? I even manipulate people to get what’s best for them. 😂
@@spilledit That's how the world works, constant stream of benevolent,benign manipulations.
Yeah once they're done ridding the c.carousel, they get ready to settle down with a simp
lol they still won’t settle for simp , they still expect a alpha. Even if they settle for a simp, women would resent him because they think they should do better because of their past
Even at that stage, they try to optimize for the best available option. That by itself is normal behavior and makes sense. But, I have observed that women are awful at determining what will benefit them in the long run. As women are only loyal to their feelings at any given time, it comes down to their feelings about the options that they have at that moment. Ultimately, everyone is as loyal as their options!
@@Hdhfhhdhgood thing I’m alway an alpha. Can’t imagine being only average.
A narcissist will lead with what they want. A sociopath will manipulate to get what they want.
Narcissists generally do both.
Either win or lose. There's no excuse to not be the best.
Everyone is a narcissist at some point in their life, we need to chill out with the labels.
Covert narcissists will lead with charm.
@dontcallthemliberals3316 you are right. Pretty much everyone under the age of 18. It's almost like it's a developmental stage that some people will go through, and some will stay in.
As a male, sometimes I've haven't found something in the woman to close the collaboration your describe about. Many women don't have that much to offer other than kisses, a body and company? I suppose. It's very different when what drives your interest on someone is a deep common interest, being intellectual, existential o whatever. Shallow people have shallow relationships, shallow lives.
A man can live without a woman he just needs to pass on his genes
@@Papi-j2z because that is the audience for what this video is targeting. transactional relationships, which is common for those either too ignorant to flesh themselves out in the dating pool. but tbh, it is very rare to find and you must cherish a relationship built on those mutual understandings. This video is good advice for men who need to get their needs met transactionally. Society doesn’t operate in the way by women leading with sex in order to secure a relationship, and it never should
I.E: look at arranged marriages and marriage culture pre 1960’s
Indeed, women enjoy being seduced by men. However, sometimes a woman's approach feels as though she's entitled to your interest because she's interested in you.
Some of us realize we’re so attractive we don’t have to try to seduce cuz we already do so naturally. That is how these situations should be played, not in a way that favors the woman like Orion is trying to frame here
That is very true. One time some acquaintance women tried to set me up with another of their friends that came into the bar. I was on friendly terms with her. But I wasn't really attracted to her in that way. But when her friend asked if I would be interested, I sorta said 'sure', in not wanting to be rude. Anyway, I never pursued it or asked her out. A couple of weeks later, this girl that was interested in me just un-friended me on facebook. For one thing, if she was so interested in me, then why didn't she ever try to hit on me or come up to me and ask me out? So yes, entitled and had an overinflated sense of her own attractiveness. The friend that initially asked if I would be interested in her also eventually unfollowed me on instagram as well. We never had any drama or issue either.
@@timetheory84 The sense of entitlement in dating can cause some women to feel insecure and vulnerable when they’re rejected.
Instead of doing some self-reflection on why they were rejected, they may just deflect and blame men for their issues.
Sadly. This dynamic happens a lot in society.
The only person responsible for your love life is you. That’s it.
@@timetheory84Not entitled, they just didn't humiliate themselves like men wrongly are used to do. No one should insist in a dating, we try once and If atraction exists It works instantly. If doesn't,forget and move on. This is the best way to deal with It, men should learn that
Actually most people who aproach think like that. In latin america men react poorly when rejected, get angry at the women.
And that's ok as long as the person is not violent towards the crush, just ghost them and move on
Sounds about right, I’ve said this time and time again. When I listen to women always talking about relationships and marriage, it’s always from a one sided perspective for what they benefit from (via marriage, kids, house, stability, emotional stability, consistency of presence, etc) but no woman ever mentions what she can do to maintain those benefits she desires. They have too much of a “me me me” complex.
Very true but on the other hand I'm not sure I have anything special to offer her either. Women almost always have more friends and potential dating partners than men do so saying "I'm a good friend, nice guy, great partner, etc" isn't good enough. I admit that I'm done caring about random strangers and I'm certainly not going to uproot my life for a female that I hardly know. I have very little desire for anything more than a FWB situation but they are almost impossible to find and even harder to keep.
It works fine as long as she is very attractive.
@@paulsmith5611 -- Remember women want emotional experience from Alpha Chad and stable providership from Beta Brad. So tell her if you want to be Chad or Brad or both combined.
@@paulsmith5611 I am a woman, and this is the honesty from a man I respect. You are correct in your reflection. Besides a man’s money and secure lifestyle they can provide, there is little a man can actually offer a woman that she desires. If you are so intent on your own gratification then pay for it. These services exist. FWB for a woman is pointless, but you already know this. Sex with most men for women is not even pleasant or fun.
@@Chunkypooch Yeah, as long as neither men nor women want children, we don't really have anything to do with each other at this point. Very few men or women will ever get what they desire, since by definition the majority of men and women are mid. For most men,
dopamine from (video games + 🌽) > dopamine from your average (invisible) woman
and for most women
dopamine from (social media + girlfriends) > dopamine from your average (invisible) man.
Dr. Taraban has discussed this as well.
Love this take man. My strategy is
Open, hook, pump emotion, laugh laugh. Soft close, pump emotions, be bold get physical. Escalate slowly and let her beg for you to close.
I love this guys stuff but I am so annoyed by the fact that his videos are likely pushed toward the male audience by the algorithm, so women don't see stuff like this. So much wisdom & he speaks in a way that makes so much sense.
We see it, but it's total nonsense. He doesn't understand women. Like this: lead with sex because that's what men want. Gross.
I agree completely and it suits both nen abs women.
Once a young adult male complained about getting girls. That weekend there was a concert by a local but incredibly popular boy band, so I asked him if he was going.
His answer, "no, that’s a show's for girls." Then I took out footage from Elvis Presley and the Beetles. Look! When do you think would be the best time to find a woman? When she is with her boyfriend or there, surrounded by other screaming women wanting a man?
You can share it with women that you know .
@TheBraunzone shared it with two possibilities though In the opposite direction: Watch out for guys looking to find women under the influence of fame. If you're open to finding a guy, look for the one who's shows self-control and holds off the crowd to help you find the exit.
Like O. Taraban has often said though, young women don't usually ask about how to find a guy like young men do.
The caveat takes the lead before introducing the "what to look for if/when".
I grew up without a male role model and mentor. Man, did that make it tough! It took until about age 23 to figure it out. I learned to toss the blue pill BS and all the useless and detrimental garbage my dorky friends and brothers told me. If I had an 11-year-old son, I would watch videos like this together with him, and discuss afterward.
" If I had a 11-year-old son.." And if you tell him to make up his own mind afterwards, you're golden my guy. I think you're onto something. I mean being there for your own kid doesn't sound like a bad idea at all to me.
Saying that as someone who grew up without a male role model also.
If you figured this stuff out at 23 you did actually very well for yourself.
@@Tim666-o5n -- Yep. Most men die without ever figuring them out.
My dad was not very helpful growing up. He died when I was 32, then I became a man. Got married the next year & had kids 10 years later. Wish I had woken up sooner. Using my older age & wisdom to raise my son & daughter with the mentorship I never had. ❤
@@bryanutility9609 Great job my dude, i'm 37 and just now really fighting my crippling social anxiety and addiction to distractions.
Excellent as always Orion. I also found the statement that’ You had this need or set of emotions before we ever met ‘ really helpful in cutting my habit of trying to fix any problems with my gf, feeling it’s my responsibility. Thinking that it’s not because of me that an issue is arising gives the situation much more space.
I was stationed in the Philippines back in the 1980's (U.S. military) and would offer a nice girl a good home cooked meal for staying the night with me. It almost always worked, and these were some good lookin gals! She was happy sharing an American meal with me and I was happy for her lovin - best years of my life!
You poor bastard.
@@travelguy1564 Keep the Philippines a secret please.
another nuisance not mentioned in this video (but he emphasizes in his book) is the same woman treats different men differently. the one she is fully attracted to, she never demands anything but does everything to please him. whereas a guy who marginal at best to her, she'll have a long list of things she demands from him. if you're the latter man, run as fast as you can because your divorce will be very costly because she never loved you but only you as a way to get resources she thinks she "deserved" - tolerating a husband she never really wanted to be with in the first place.
A man should choose a woman who is genuinely attracted to him.
@@rayrwyr It's a lot more complicated than that.
He already did so in a previous video. I believe it's called The Law of Atttraction. You made a very good point about to what to do.
Oh, yeah that’s advice applicable to me…
@@lashedbutnotleashed1984it’s not that complicated if you understand attraction isn’t just physical
I approve of this title, instant understanding
Thanks, Orion. As a man, I can appreciate what you're doing. I'd say you also hit an equally important point which is a woman's girlfriends and society feeding them bad information. This is perhaps the root issue and needed skill - discernment of the truth. This could be the holy grail of relationship success for many ladies.
Problem with sales is that they're often selling crap, just scammers who work on appearances, although it can work, it's a bad idea long term because the product is exaggerated and usually fails to meet expectations. This is common with relationships as well, I can't find any other reason why it doesn't last long, same with men driving nice cars and wearing flash clothes but really don't have much in the bank. Even women join in as well with make-up, it's so superficial, but a good product is really what's important, especially in the long run.
Orion is a sales man for desperate men. He keeps you in the loop of playing a game that favors the woman, that way when it doesn’t work out, you can come back and watch more of his videos to figure out “where it went wrong”. This video is a good example of that. He takes all the pressure off the woman here with his framework, and this is what contributes to them having their heads through the roof
@@marcusmcgraw3519 He tries to be a realist - this is just how it is. All channels soon go down a path of making money and self promotion anyway, it's not about the subject anymore, it's about themselves and keeping the business going. And inevitably, they lose sight of what they were really about, then again, many dating channels here are just scames to begin with - picking on weak and gullible men, and taking their money.
@ I’ve seen your comments on Casey’s videos, and even though I’d say that sometimes you choose to overlook some of the points he makes, I have to respect your ability to notice the manipulation techniques used. Notice how much different (and more tolerable) Orion’s channel was before he went the direction he did with gearing it towards dating. You have to be able to examine the motive for his actions (and videos) rather than just looking at it by itself in a vacuum. You will paint a much more complete picture as a result, and it will tell you how to treat the matter
@@marcusmcgraw3519 If you care to study Zander more carefully, you should realize he's actually a very childish person, he's from a sales background and applies it to his channel. Really quite feeble minded, not very conscientious either, he understands appearances though but doesn't really know much aside from all the material he's obviously taken from other dating coaches. Orion is a psychologist by profession and does know the depths of the human psyche, a bit too mechanical for my liking, but he far more objective and clear headed than most other channels.
If you care to study Zander more carefully, you should realize he's actually a very childish person, he's from a sales background and applies it to his channel. Really quite feeble minded, not very conscientious either, he understands appearances though but doesn't really know much aside from all the material he's obviously taken from other dating coaches. Orion is a psychologist by profession and does know the depths of the human psyche, a bit too mechanical for my liking, but he far more objective and clear headed than most other channels.
The problem is a misunderstanding of what the basic deal is.
The woman gives the man exclusive sexual access and support in exchange for provision and protection.
To close the deal particularly with a guy 30-50 yrs old she has to understand that if she likes some most of the other girls like him too. She has to show that she is the best option and understand that the days of being 20 when anyone who said yes to a 20 year old man was probably his best option.
Women 18-22ish unconsciously understand this, women 25+ don’t/can’t admit or understand this.
Denial
what about 23-25? hahaha
OOOOOOOOOHHHH man, you hit it out of the park this time Orion!
So awesome that your story always goes both ways and is always so clear when you talk Irion, now let's do this in real life.
This guy is cooking at full blast
Next week we'll be covering that pickup classic, "The Art of the Deal."
That’s a nice country you have there, be a shame if it became the 51st state 😂
I would put it like this. Imagine you hiring someone to perform a service. They ask you to pay up front before the service or job is done. People are far more likely to do a more quality job when payment is given after the job. Paying upfront tends to send a message to the person performing the service results in a loss of ambition. People are far more likely to do better quality work if they know they have to wait for the payment until the job is done. This dove tails into the fact that women lose their ambition once they have secured marriage. They received their guarantee, so now they can pull back the reigns and lose ambition. They secured what they wanted, so there no need to try anymore
Bait n Switch, Black Widow then get fat
Most men become fat & lazy after marriage. They can finally stop buying those flowers & watch the game instead of going to the gym… oh what’s that, divorce? 😂
I love you, man! I could literally listen to you talk forever. Please drop more videos, I'm curious about everything!
Too egotistical, with a solipsistic mindset, and narcissistic tendencies. Thats why they haven't figured it out yet, although conceptually simple. I think some have a disdain towards men, a competitiveness, vendettas, or as i initially mentioned, narcissistic and theyre solely thinking of themselves which is most accurate.
Most people are selfish. I’m slightly narcissistic because I’m just better than average. If you’re not, then you need to do better.
@bryanutility9609 You're slightly narcissistic? What does that mean, and because you're better than average, so that automatically means you can't empathize/compromise and be realistic. Play in your lane, end of story, don't over value yourself like narcissistic people do. None of what you said makes sense. You conceptually don't understand the concept of the video.
You're slightly narcissistic? What does that mean, and because you're better than average, so that automatically means you can't empathize/compromise and be realistic. Play in your lane, end of story, don't over value yourself like narcissistic people do. None of what you said makes sense. You conceptually don't understand the concept of the video.
@@bryanutility9609 Go spend some time around people who are better than you then, get some humility back and enjoy the process of turning it into confident humility.
Life gets a lot easier when you can openly admit there are people more xyz-er than you; you no longer have to carry that burden of performance around.
Orion thank you for closing the gap between men women with each video you make.
Remember guys: if she is easy, she is not worth it; if she is worth it, she is not easy.
that's true😂
Sadly, they are never worth it 😢
The Prophet (ﷺ) said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you.” -Sahih Al-Bukhari 29
I noticed your more intentional and less monotoned end of video “calling card”. Very well done. It actually made me want to listen again to the same suggestion to join the captain’s quarters because is sounded different than the standard catchphrase and seemed more like a genuine suggestion or persuasive effort. Like a conversation rather than a simple “like, favorite, and subscribe” that we all are so used to hearing. You do very good work and I look forward to seeing how else you adapt and grow. Big fan!
He's helping women. They should lead with a product or service that can impact a man positively. Its much better than saying you're the table or you bring yourself to the table. A lot of men want the best for women. So they can have a fulfilling life. Not be abused by cold hearted people
Thanks for your common sense. When will men realize that Orion is keeping you in a game that favors the woman to capitalize on you? That way, when it inevitably goes wrong, you can go watch his videos to figure out why. This helps him, not men
I don’t know about that, I’ve made two comments that were respectful and they have been deleted. I suspect this one will be too.
@@SNAPivy it's censorship. Sometimes you can replace letters with numbers. I think he's helping w0m3n. Cos he wants women to live a fulfilled life. They'll do this by offering men something of value, that could add to men's lives. This is something women don't know
He’s advising women to lower themselves for men who would never amount to them. Sometimes he has decent things to say… other times you get a window into his deviant mind.
@@SNAPivyYT auto deletes comments
Forget it men, you cannot satisfy a customer (women) that can never be satisfied.
Then give your generics a funeral because you are not good enough to win in the game of life.
Partly cause they do not ever learn what they want. And sure are clueless about what they actually need.
WIIFM: Whats In It For Me? Key to sales and women.
This is completely incorrect. There are no attractive behaviors only attractive men. Women will tolerate you leading with anything you want if you are valuable to her. It's actually a good indicator of whether she actually likes you or not. If you can lead with what you want and she likes it then she likes you.
Ohhhhh! This one’s a good one!! It will take some getting used to on this idea primarily because this is not what I’ve been taught and told all of my life. I was told “don’t give a man what he wants early in dating.”
I don't think that's what he's saying. It's not giving what he wants early in dating, but a promise
you fall into my "would" category
anyway I can teach you all about what men want
Am I doing this right
You don't have to give it early (although this is a strategy that can work sometimes), just that your "sales pitch" should acknowledge that when you try to close a deal, just saying "I want sex/long-term relationship" from the beginning doesn't tend to work very well
Whether that's a good strategy or not really depends on the man and also on your past. No man wants to find out that you waited longer with him than with someone else. So yes, if you haven't been "quick" before, take your time, it's what makes you special. But if you've already had spontaneous ONS I'd seriously recommend against making *men you want to be with* wait. However, whatever the situation, you do have to at least acknowledge what you're selling. If you're selling a house, you don't necessarily have to allow the buyer to start living in it the next day. But if you don't at least acknowledge that you are selling a house, good luck with persuading the potential buyer to take out a mortgage and handing all his money to you!
Giving it early is not necessary.
What *is* necessary is being real about why the man is there and convincing him you will be real about it.
Cut the good times to hassle ratio and don't demean and shame him over his sexual interest (God! Most women get each and all of those ideas stuck in reverse gear!)
Any good man - - and most other men - - will bite that hook hard.
Orion Taraban has achieved the feat of producing top-quality videos while creating an extraordinary book on the same theme, but without saying the same thing. The value of others is one of the most lucid books I've ever read.
I very, very strongly encourage you to do so. It's a huge pleasure anytime I open it. I really mean what I say .
All of this is great advise but until laws change ( marriage laws, child support laws, alimony laws, criminal persecution of men for sexual desire laws, same persecution for the same crimes laws, equal legal opportunity laws, punishment for emotional abuse of men laws etc.), quality men will pass on it. This is a good video for beta simps who can’t get a woman.
3:48 So we know *that* women value emotional experiences; could you make a video on *why* women value emotional experiences? I don’t see an evolutionary reason for why a sense of humor would be on the same level of wealth, looks, or power.
Just bought your book. Looking forward to reading it. Carry on.
That’s it! I’m giving up women. This is too stressful
It's amazing that this needs to be said.
You're Brilliant Orion! I appreciate your candid advice always! 🙌🏾
as a former McKinsey and BCG consultant, you've got half of the solution. sometimes, a woman's sales pitch is too self-centered. my guess the bigger problem is she's targeting a man (customer) who is beyond her offering ("most women aren't attractive enough to get what they want") - trying to sell a Toyota to a Rolls-Royce buyer. why do they keep getting ghosted after a few booty calls and not get the message those guys just weren't that into you? "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."
You put it so accurately. Most women cant attract the men that they want. They are usually shooting way above their paygrade.
Can you share what else you learned working with these large management consulting firms? Applying to sales etc, whether in context of women, or not. Thank you in advance :)
@@MrKastroni -- hence those women just share those top men. Then when her SMV drops, she ropes in a Beta provider whom she had rejected 5 years earlier. But she secretly keeps in touch with her Alpha.
@thisisnotoleg 1. observe and accept reality not what you want reality to be. too many silly tiktok videos of delusional women. however, women do want men they can respect and brag to their friends. either make yourself more attractive or lower your expectations (women's hotness). 2. market segmentation and niche positioning - very few men are popular with all women so it's a more successful strategy to target those niches that might be interested in you (I'm asian-american and stick to asian women). 3. key buying factors - what are the factors that your target women want in a boyfriend/husband? I'm sure there are many more...
'can you imagine?'
i've been in that call multiple times. at least 10.
Women: “eww is that all you want is sex”?
Depends. Do you actually offer anything else we'd want?
He's done a video on this.
@@Nethemasbut it is all that men want, you even don't know what else would you like to get from women.
Sex isn’t all we want, unless that’s all you’ve got
-P. O’Neal
"Nope. I want other things as well...from someone I'm having sex with."
After listening to this, I've had a deep realization that I did both of these things and in the end it was just a loss loss. Just change me in ways I couldn't know.
A corallary to this is that once the contract is signed, the seller is not bound to keep offering the enticement. (i.e. You can wind up stuck in a sexless marriage).
Yea make sure you like the sex before marriage & make sure you both want marriage before the sex. Never stop working on yourself. just finished my workout: wish my wife would try a little harder but I can’t stand being out of shape no matter how old I get.
When the truth is comedy you know that things are really screwed up. I am reminded of that saying: '...first as tragedy, then as farce'.
Women also needs to know that even if you lead with the solution, it still doesn’t guarantee to get what you want but more of a higher chance.
I believe I have an even better concept: figure out what you are missing emotionally and fix that within yourself. Become your own best friend, your rock. Need no one. Then when you find someone you enjoy being with, just enjoy the experience. When you’re happy within yourself, you’ll naturally want to give to anyone else even if they don’t give back. If they keep taking, walk away. If they give as well, stay and enjoy it. This channel is always interesting. Thank you.
Standing ovation !!!
I think this is very correct from a practical standpoint in the beginning and short term after marriage if marriage and long term relationship is the goal. The other issue is the long term when someone does not desire to fulfill the original agreed upon contract. This I think becomes a common issue and has to be approached with love and discussed how is this problem resolved and many people it seems do not have the resolve to se it through to the end - "till death do we part".
No woman will want to hear this. It will offend them.
We don't care. We don't have to sell ourselves.
@@LisaCultonyou have 100+ comments on this channel with nothing but you being disagreeable and argumentative … I know without a doubt your killing the batteries on your toys & drinking yourself to sleep with wine out of loneliness.
@@LisaCultonkeep telling yourself that. You already know it’s over with old lady so now you flood social media being disagreeable and argumentative all over these spaces hoping younger ladies follow behind your own cluelessness. I see right through it the wall never fails…
@@LisaCultonyou do, if you want a relationship.
@@LisaCulton If you want a man you have to.
Excellent analogy Doc sales mindset hits the point.
1:52 NGL, that salesman would get my business sooner by explicitly telling me what they wanted as long as they followed with willingness to get me to what I want. My mental setup works best with clear rules.
I once worked as an insurance salesman and when asked by the customer what I wanted, I answered "to sell." Got a good laugh out of him from that, I think he appreciated the honesty :D Did not sell though, I was a terrible salesman.
Does the sales lady offer B J s on the front porch?
Most of my female peers love moving the goalpost to favor herself and her wants.
unfathomably based.
❎ Manipulating is influencing someone for YOUR benefit WITHOUT their consent.
✅ Educating is influencing someone for THEIR benefit WITH their consent.
🙏 Thank you Dr. Orion Taraban for successfully educating me.
I love that you have to dress up "have actual empathy" in so many words and have to frame it any number of other ways, and it still won't land. Oh well.
😅 wouldn’t make for a very good video…
I dropped a comment on Pearl's channel yesterday; this video relates to it so I'll leave it here too...
<
Ok I'm gonna weigh in on the PUA thing and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.
(As someone who used to pick up rather a lot)
As a PUA doing cold approach, you are starting at less than zero.
Any adult knows that 99% of the time if someone you don't know approaches you and there's no context for it... they want something from you.
THEY want to GET something from YOU.
Almost never do they want to give you something of value.
They want to TAKE something of value.
Salesmen, random losers et al occupy that space.
So... the natural response is defensive. As it should be.
This is why context is important.
Situations where it's relatively natural to say hi or share an observation, etc. are much better.
But overall, cold approach sux.
Way too high a rejection rate.
This is not a worthy use of a man's time.
>
They only open.
As a child I was aware that the woman I wanted would want a man better than I was. So I ignored the chasing of women and chased self-improvement. Turns out that is all you need to do to increase your value and even if you end up alone, you're much more of a badass.
You are putting the cart waaaaay before the horse. Women don't even think about what men are getting out of a relationship. That would require compassion and trying to understand what it's like to be in a man's shoes on a day to day basis. That's impossible to do for anyone who is totally fixated on themselves 24/7
Not every woman is self obsessed, your statement is highly biased
@@DuceOfClubsyep true it’s only like 85%. Of them not all.
Chill. Empathize, try to experience the encounter from the man’s perspective. Everyone will be happier this way.
I wish bro was my dad
With all the knowledge he has gave and since i did not have a father im starting to see this guy as it hahaha women advices for men are the worst, thanks god I've found him, dr K and Jordan.
I pray that I find a lady that follows Orions advice
the dating market is fucked... why? dating apps... they need to be banned.
As is the bar/club and other places one is supposed to meet women...same 💩everywhere
Or maybe just start calling them what they really are: Hookup Apps.
@@zacklewis342as an introvert I love hookup apps. I hate being social & trying to meet people IRL. Who knows if someone is even single. Huge waste of time.
Well, I hope your books value of $23 is worth it, cause I just ordered it, cause you’ve nailed it several videos in a row, so I want to support that.
How do you manage to find new ideas for your videos?!
It is 95% of the time hashing out the same old ideas.
Ripping off the ideas from older red pill tenets and content creators, then painting a more palatable veneer over it with his theater skills.
Youy Sire are a true Wordsmith!
I have tried both approaches, being direct in what I want on the first date and not being too direct. I think Orion's advice totally makes sense if you want to attract an avoidant man or a man who is highly desired. I would advise against that, in most cases it will lead to pain. Being honest and the other person still wanting to see you and date you is the winning strategy for a peaceful life. Leading with sex attracts the wrong people!
As someone who dated some, but not much.. as a person who experiences attraction only after emotional connection...
There has been no women in my life who would want to connect with me on a deeper level, without diving into the bed with her first.
They often say, sex is the reward for men, and women are the gate keepers.. But what I learned is that this is not entirely true. Women definitely need sex to proof to themselves that someone is worth being emotionally attached to.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying you're wrong. No not at all. There can be many reasons why its different, including culture. I'm just saying my limited experience definitely contradicts your anecdote.
Orion's advice is not about being direct or indirect. It is about beginning your negotiation with an understanding of the other person's needs. The mention of sex was a common enough example, not the point of his video.
If it’s a man who is looking for long term relationships it will likely not result in pain. The issue is women are trying to lead this way with desirable men who don’t want true long term commitment despite them saying they do because they’ll say whatever they need to say in order to get sex. so how do you know truly? You go for men who are in communities that have moral values such as genuine religious communities. Not just men who claimed to be religious, but men who truly practice what they preach.
Sex at the start is never an issue, I would never even mention it in the first few dates, but it's necessary before you start a commited relationship. If sex is a problem at the start, as a man, you can't expect a good future with her and should just leave.
So I can't lead with sex, and she can't lead with: "I need this and that from you", by the way these are very basic and expected standart needs, you shouldn't have to talk about it in the first few dates, but you should align you expectations before commiting.
You watched the video and got the wrong message. Still stuck on what you want, this time you're just being indirect about it. Orion tells you to forget what you want for a second and try to figure out what He wants, then use that to get what you want. Just because he's been with you physically doesn't mean he'll commit to you. Figure out what he wants in someone he's willing to commit to and forget about what you want till he sees you have what he wants.
The best lesson I learned in sales: "Sell the sizzle, not the steak."