Surgeon Reacts to Space Marine Creation Process - 1 of 5 | 19 Organ Implants (Astartes Organs 1 - 6)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video orthopedic surgeon Dr Chris Raynor looks at the Astartes Space Marines from Warhammer 40K and Space Marine creation, focusing on the first 6 organs of the 19 organ augmentation process and comparing them to today's technology. #warhammer40k #spacemarines #astartes
Part 2 of 4: • Surgeon Reacts to Spac...
Part 3 of 4: • Surgeon Reacts to Spac...
Part 4 of 4: Coming to you soon!
The entire Space Marines Creation Process can be found here:
• Surgeon Reacts To Asta...
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Don't forget to check out the latest instalment of this series here: th-cam.com/video/SFzZ3K1LeCs/w-d-xo.html
Congratulations, I got here from recommended and I'm not even into W40K, I just thought the analysis was freaking sweet. Thank you for the content, will be back to this channel
50k War-Hammer very hard just organs changes......try DNA reedition or cyber-human.......
soo what you telling me that its possible.. cool
I'm very glad to watch your videos, coolest surgeon in the world 😎
Good info Just remember warhammer 40k is supposed to be ridiculous
Fun fact: Almost all of these implant surgeries are done with no anesthetic. If you can't survive surgery while feeling everything, you're not tough enough to be an Astartes.
Yep and after all that work you end up dying on your first mission to ork boy shooting his pistol at you
Nice so no furries and degenerates can survive good very good
This does vary between chapters, for example the Blood Angels spend most of their implantation process unconscious as their infused of Sanguinius' blood
Fun fact, huh?
If you cant deal with your small dick due to hormone grouwth you cant be a dickless astartes
As a 40k fan I love seeing my stupid sci-fi 8 feet post-humans explained in a modern medical context. I will most definetly check out more of your content after this
I can only agree.
They're IQ is supposed to be 200+ so not so stupid ;)
40k is pretty weak by they way
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 comes from you argel tal, just wait for Erebus to come by and help with your bad influence
@@sebastianholtsvendsen2597 after holding off ultramarines and khran, and Erebus what who had a chaos wepons? And plot armour? , big 40k fan?? doesn't know basic lore 🤣
Honestly, the idea that a space marine recruit has to break every bone in their body multiple times to have them lengthen and strengthen sounds more grimdark than the regular lore.
You just need to read more lore.
@@ffwast I concur. That's not grimdark at all compared to 40k. Even the space marine creation process has more grim dark things in it.
You should read up on how chaos marines are made lmao.
I honestly wouldn’t mind a retcon that made it the case that they do exactly this.
Nah, that's pretty harmless for 40k standards.
Straight bananas are waaay healthier than crooked ones.
Prove me wrong, if you dare.
I have to say that's one underrated thing the internet has done for us
scientists are nerds, who knew?
Conversations today, experimentation tomorrow
dude its a layout for Sci-fi, what's wrong with you?
It reminds me of that lawyer on Reddit who broke down Anakin's legal defense against fighting Obi-Wan
Heck yes! Please keep doing fictional universes, it's so interesting to see how you tie real world medical knowledge with fictional beings! Thanks Dr. Raynor!
Will do!
AGREED...I LOVE this stuff! 👍
@@ChrisRaynorMD good man
fictional? no, 40k is where we're headed to now. 40k is officially non-fiction
Me too imagine in the future if we could actually make spacemarines
I'm an RN who works in inpatient rehab and enjoy 40k lore immensely. Thus is by far the most entertaining thing I've watched lately.
🙏🙏
Im a real n**ga too, respect
Im homeless and I love 40k lore
@@ultraheaven8968 respect. Booyakasha 😎
@@TheSword2212 the gangs all here
I was genuinely surprised how accurate the lore was for this. It's pretty rare to see someone outside of the community explain the lore accurately (it doesn't even make sense itself most of the time), especially in a deep dive like this! This was such a cool video, I'll be looking for the next!
There must be a lot of refinements on the way, contributed by fans that are also doctors and medical students.
Not only was the info accurate, the pronunciations were also spot on. Color me impressed.
No wonder Halo stole Space Marine description for Spartans(only lore description of implant and process, which weren't unique either as GW is know for plagiarism. Armor design was inspired by Doom marine and the role itself... well, people to this day argue how Halo and Marathon are connected and whom is the Guard to Spartans). If it works, why fix it?;)
"Outside of the community"?
He seems like a pretty big fan to me
@@joshuadallas3135 yeah, i came here to comment just about the same thing. Got a pretty strong feeling this man has a hobby room at home
I underwent leg lengthening with a fixator when I was 12 due to a congenital mismatch of my lower right leg. I never knew that brought me closer to being an Astartes than most fans. 😅 great video!
Ouch! I hope you're ok now
What chapter are you in?
Fun fact, in the books a lot of the first born space marines do suffer from acromegaly from the astartes process, and are described as having forms of facial gigantism. Big brows, big cheeks, etc. Especially those legions without a primarch around to stabilize their genetics, such as lion el'johnson, who was lost on caliban prior to the 1st legion finding him.
Edited for clarification*
Which space marine chapters have no primarch from which their genetics are derived from? The closest you could get to that being a reality would be the original space marines having zero primarchs since they were killed or disappeared for the last 35k+ years
There are extreme forms of.this like the Black dragons who grow bladed and spiked protrusions from their arms, brows and other spots but due to impediment to their armor function they need to be trimmed or removed
@@nofuxgivens2797 Just because I am reading the Siege of Terra books again, there actually is a space marine with no primarch (Leeto), who was a prototype. I would not lump the lost legions in with him though, as they definitely had one.
@@brianfite4740 I always assumed he was from a lost legion. Leeto being a reference to the 2nd Legion.
@@nofuxgivens2797 No legion has access to "pure" Primarch DNA and many legion's seed has corrupted over the millennia. Typically, this presents as a loss in certain implants (Fists not spitting acid/unable to suspend). However, it gets extreme (Blood Angels suffering Black Rage/Red Thirst). Though it could be argued that the "thirst" is a pre-heresy mutation.
Black Dragons suffer mutations because they are a "chimera" Chapter like most of the 13th founding. Chapter genetics were mixed from various Legions. All the Chapters from that founding were tainted in one form or another.
@@lazlopwent7960 Na, the book references him predating the Primarchs. Also, while not all chapters had access to pure geneseed, several had access to pure DNA (imperial fists had Rogal's hand, Blood Angels had Sanguinius' whole body (encased in gold), and Edit: Ultamarines had Guillimen in stasis prior to him waking up, though I imagine that this was ignored for story reasons.
Also, as a Blood Angels fanboy, I have to agree that the red thirst predates the heresy, but I would argue that the Black Rage is related to Sanguinius' foresight echoing down the ages, and is more a psychic phenomena than a gene flaw. That is kind of nitpicking though. :)
Swelling joints is actually a common problem experienced by Astartes in the lore. They are able to ignore the discomfort and push on because of their other abilities and indoctrination.
That’s interesting! Even Primaris Marines?
@@Powaup
I haven't read anything that says primaris marines are any different. I think they would still have the same problems but I couldn't say for sure
@@briancoolbreeze if I recall correctly, a primaris marine has 22 organs, as opposed to the 19 of a normal Space Marine. They are bigger, more resilient to physical damage, much physically stronger, and have much faster reaction times compared to a Normal Space Marine.
Moreover, it is possible for a normal Space Marine, now called a Firstborn, to undergo additional surgery to have the extra organs implanted and transform into a Primaris Marine, but this process has a very low success rate, even lower than the original process.
@@superdarklink
But there's nothing that says primaris marines don't suffer from the same problems that firstborn marines experience, such as swelling joints
@@briancoolbreeze this is true. But considering the Primaris Marines are supposed to be better than a normal Space Marine in every single way, unless otherwise stated I think it's safe to assume that flaw was ironed out
I'd imagine 38+ thousand years of ethically dubious grimdark research would produce crazy results, good video man.
More like 5k years of development and 33k years of pure chaos
@@caxe7 True.
Astartes weren’t created in 40k.
They were created in 30k.
Thunder warriors in the 29th.
28 thousand years
Heresy was 30k, and the pre-marines (thunder warriors) were 29k. So really 1 thousand years of dubious research.
Interestingly, organ rejection is, in lore terms, most definitely a thing that aspirants might encounter during the post implantation period. No worries though. In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, they typically just liquidate the subject and select a new aspirant to run the process on, depending on which legion is involved and how the rejection manifests. Of course, thats assuming the rejection itself is survivable. Often times, if there is rejection, theres no coming back from that, regardless of a bolt round to the head as a safety precaution.
Hmm... Not sure if it's rejection as such, but some chapters' more interesting quirks are supposed to come from flaws in their gene seed making some of the extra organs he rejected or not work properly. The Blood Angels are a good example, where their literal thirst for blood is down to a malfunction of the organ that lets Astartes gain their enemy's memories by eating them. Yet Astartes with these problems are still fielded rather than being euthanised.
@@studentjohn it depends on the chapter, and which author wrote the lore chunk we are talking about. The Space Wolves have the potential to go full wolf, except in their case, become a massive, overpowered thing called a Wulfen and are often either offed directly, or thrown out into the wilderness, there to be a threat to overcome for aspirant Space Wolves as one of the last rites of passage before being recognised. This is what occurred in the first story in the Space Wolves Omnibus, Space Wolf, by William King, if I recall correctly. Also, in that novel I believe, one aspirant simply ups and dies after implantation, although I could be misremembering that.
Actually most aspirants who cannot go all the way to marines usually just become chapter serfs, which is actually a better life than it sounds, a step up from average imperial citizen, as they belong to the chapter and perform various duties and even combat (manning turrets and weapon systems aboard ships)
Correction about the rib cage; the bones don't fuse into one solid plate, instead they grow wider and stronger, overlapping each other like roman plate armor (lorica segmentata). They're still able to contract and expand.
Whenever I hear this, I really get the heebies... something about the thought of that just rustles my jimmies.
@@robrobusa That's because the idea of bones overlapping and scraping together doesn't sound like it would feel good. Would probably need some cartilage-like substance between each rib.
It’s silly little details like this that make me love this absolute mess of a lore
@@dometrikschramm5301 It's almost like no medical professionals were harmed in making this lore ;)
But yes that makes sense.
@@dometrikschramm5301 Imagine- every time you breathe in, you get the sensation of rib cramps. One of my lower right ribs cramp and will make several popping noises over the course of a few minutes before settling again, thankfully it only happens every 2-4 weeks, as it is extremely unpleasant
Edit: It's either cramp, or I have an alien chest burster in me
As an old combat medic this was a hoot to watch. Thanks Doc, you earned a follow.
🙏🙏
thank you for your service man ^_^
You sir are from the top three special forces in the world.
Hell yeah man me too and i thoroughly enjoyed this
"What do we say to the god of death?"
"NOT TODAY!"
oh wow I had no idea there was an actual procedure to implant a secondary heart already. Such a great video, love in depth technical analysis of fictional concepts
Thank you so much!
Batman would fold the Hulkbuster if he truly has an anatomy that's been pushed to the human body as confirmed by death battle. But the movies, games, TV series, and comic books don't seem to truly recognize what this actually is. He could fold Spider-Man blindfolded, Death Battle might not be dumb but information deficiency does play a part. Also don't expect them to know anything that was discovered after the death battle video was made.
There are two things that make the Space Marine Creation Process more realistic than you might think:
1. Its 38,000 years into the future. Imagine showing a Roman soldier a smart phone, then multiply that technology gap by 20. That's their technology level.
2. Its well known and well documented that most aspirants do NOT survive the process, and, generally, they do not care. There's always more subjects willing to die to become demi-gods.
I have no idea how I ended up on this. I have no general interest in medicine or Warhammer........
but this was fabulous. you're a great presenter, and I watched it to the very end🤣🤙
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@ChrisRaynorMD There is a scammer posing as you in your comment section. Just a heads up.
The Algorithm has spoken, lol. No idea how I ended up here either, besides maybe some of the old "Emperor's TTS" videos back before they got shut down.
Becareful brother, 40K Lore is a void that will swallow you whole.
@@Saicofake I'm always searching for a new rabbit hole to explore
Fun fact: the first Astartes shown (doing the video game "ready" stance) is a Primaris Marine. They're new, and get 3 more organs on top of the typical Astartes organs.
Don't worry. They are coming after the basic Space Marines are done.
@@ChrisRaynorMD dang, Doc! You're on it. As a 40k who used to be a Ranger medic, I really enjoy how you're blending hard science fact with near future capabilities to achieve the Sci fi we all want. Keep up the great work.
@@EvolvedTactical Dunno if I'd qualify the 40th millenium as "near future"...
@@ChrisRaynorMD Gods of the Warp, you madman! I salute thee.
@@WarMonger_the-One-and-Only is this heresy I hear??
Astarties are complex enough. The Custodies are even more so. The Primarchs? According to the lore, Horus's body was examined after he was killed.....they had no idea what they were looking at. They apparently have organs that no one knows what they do.
What codex or book is this examination from?
@@SuperEone1 I wanna know too
@@SuperEone1 "Would you like to know more?"
It was prob the "terrible decision making" organ
Horus was deleted from existence. There is nothing left of him, unless you mean his clones. Even his soul was erased.
Interesting bit of 40k lore. Those metal buttons we saw on the space marines forehead are called "campaign studs" and they are implanted into the marines head for every 100 years of service.
@@masonhoffman5653 Is Dante's forehead just
Made of metal?
@@dabestorkposta no idea, I don't play Blood Angels. Or space marines in general
@@masonhoffman5653 i mean it's more so a lore thing considering he is the oldest space marine
@@masonhoffman5653 or maybe the Death Mask isn't a mask and it is actually his service stud
@@dabestorkposta he's not the oldest. The oldest known living astartes is Bjorn the Fell-handed.
"Being a Space Marine is clearly a tough job."
Yes, yes it is, but then so is existing in any capacity within the 40k universe. Even if all the Xenos threats don't getcha, the inquisition might...
The best way to describe 40k is everything is having a competition to be the most grim badass ever.
Except maybe for the Orks, who are just having a good time.
What do you mean the inquisition might? The inquisition don’t go after space marines do they? Only chaos and Xenos?
@@Radbiker33357 Based on ordo, and they try, look at moths of shame. (spoiler inquisition gets ass kicked)
@@Radbiker33357 Even Space Marines go after Space Marines if they think they are being heretic.
You underestimate how vast the Imperium is. You could very well live on one of the millions of backwater planets that in millennia has never seen any sign of war, living a nice life in a society with a tech level akin to ours.
The fact you went this deep into the lore of 40k and made a video based on the creation of the poster boys of 40k makes you a legend and I'm bow sibscribed XD
Thanks Kyle!
You've subscribed to your bow, or did you subscribe along with your trusty longbow? I'd love it if a guy with a bow secretly watched over me and kept me safe when I went out at night. Dr. Chris is lucky to have someone on overwatch.
Would love to see a whole summary at the end of the this that describes how a real space marine could be made and maybe an illustration on how a real space marine would look like, inside and out. Very fun video!
Perhaps
@@ChrisRaynorMD the inquisition finds this answer…..acceptable. Have a nice day and don’t commit heresy!
40k is weak
@@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552 considering your subbed to Gamza that makes a lot of sense
@@Sollapoke what can I say he right most stuff
As a 40k fan and someone saved by modern surgical techniques, This video series is perfect viewing.
As a non-science major, I wish just one of my professors would have been able to be as interesting as Dr. Raynor. Think I learned more about anatomy in 20 minutes over semesters of classes.
so youre a non science major? i assumed you didnt major in anatomy? yeah bro im not surprised.
@@user-vv1do1wg1j you sound pissed ngl
@@user-vv1do1wg1j lol I bet you'll call yourself an alpha male next
@@user-vv1do1wg1j y so pressed? Serving McDonald's in a couple hours?
I think this would have been a really cool tie into A&P, a 'think about this critically and how these implants would work and/or affect a human'.
Which of these 6 organs is your favorite? If you could only pick one for yourself, which one would it be? How will YOU start your journey to become a Space Marine?
I guess, I just die in the process. :D Without aenesthetic? Yes. I just totaly die in the operating table. I think, I'd rather just go to Schoola Progenium and be a commissar
. :D
Idk considering that children from hive cities are born adapted to suit the grim harshness of the 40k verse. Maybe they have a higher pain tolerance than any of us in this current age. That being said I'd like to go through the process just to be eternally numb to pain
I can't chose, being able to spit acid or eat anything including other living things to gain their memories is neat.
But so is a brain so advanced you can entertain dozens of thoughts at the same time.
I would enjoy being able to cover myself in snot and hibernate as well
A second heart would imply a myriad of benefits, if I had to choose only one, that would be it.
@@Lyray I'm sure most fans find the combat -related implants more exciting, but for my money the sus-an membrane is the most intellectually tantalizing. Hibernation is effectively time travel! I also like that it works with another organ that prepares the body for hibernation with a waxy secretion. This is one of the better thought -out pieces of pseudoscience in a universe that is usually not big on explaining things in the "hard sci fi" style.
Stuff like this I usually just say, hey it’s sci fi future stuff don’t think to much about it.
But when an expert comes along and asks if I want to know how it’s possible, I’m like yes please lol
This was pretty cool. Thanks for covering this man. Much appreciated
Edit: Oh and I’m sitting here in the VA same day surgery waiting room, to get my gallbladder removed. So this videos timing was on point lol. Very nice ty
The emperor protects brother.
In the Horus Hersey novels, Space Marines appear to have acromegaly (distended brows, noses, and chins) when their helmets are removed. Probably from the intense hormone therapies
True, but not all of them suffer from this. Ahriman, Uriel Ventris, and other marines across the setting seem to have completely normal facial features. I think it really depends on the implantation process.
@@LordCrate-du8zm And the Geneseed ;)
I just thought I mention that in Warhammer lore there is a prototype version of the Astartes "Space Marines" called Thunder Warriors. This is what Dr. Chris Raynor would be making here.
So the thunder warriors had some gastric issues on the prototype
So the question is, is the doc either the Emperor in disguise or Malcador the Sigilite?
@@voidpunkprincess He's not glowy enough to be Emps.
Considering the Canon description of the thunder warriors places them above basically every iteration of astartes including the primuses they were definitely effective only issue was their volatility. Which is why the primuses were made in the first place
Thank you SO MUCH Dr. Raynor. Every other surgeon I talked to told me it would be "impossible" to be turned into a 7 foot tall emotionless killing machine. The experimental implants I wanted done were considered "too risky" and medically "unecessary" but after watching your video I know the future is close at hand. Long Live the Chaos Gods.
Pro tip: You can save money on implants by praying to the Dark Gods for mutations, with only a minor chance of getting transformed into a Chaos Spawn. Totally worth it.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
The Officio Medicae does not actually endorse the wanton use and distribution of any space-marine conversion paraphernalia.
If enthrallment with being surgically transformed into an Astartes (specifically a Chaos Astartes) persist consult your commissar.
HERESY!!!
For the Emperor.
I always assumed an Astrtes’ “fused” rib cave is more like interlocking and overlapping plate armor, allowing it to move naturally.
Yeah, kind of like how interlocking plates in historical armor worked. I don't believe it is ever described that way, but it would make much more sense.
@@Mode-Selektor yeah same. It does seem to be described as more of a bone plate. But I’ve always imagined it can like shift and stuff, exactly like medieval plate armor.
The Doctor may be referring to the fact that your ribs have joints in the front which allow your rib cage to expand when you are breathing. If these joints are fused, your rib cage won't allow your lungs to expand.
Interlocking and overlapping ribs would open another can of fascinating issues.
@@T3HR3PP4 Yep. There's a reason no natural animals has interlocking scales/plates/whatever UNDERNEATH their skin. Not to mention all the issues with the attachment points between muscle and bone.
0:20 When you see 500+ years of war service you know to do what's best for your health.
This was a really informative and entertaining video! I know a lot about 40k but nothing about medical science 😅
Its him funny youtube voice actor !
Its the funny meme man
I appreciate Chris's commitment to actually researching the lore when speaking on the matter, there is not many non 40k fans that would bother doing so.
On a side note since looking at fictionalized biology seems to be a trend now with your videos, may I suggest taking a look at a anime called Cells at Work. I would be interested to hear how accurate albeit fictionalized the portrayal of the anatomical functions is in that show.
Cells at Work is fun. The real dark moment is realising that if the body was an actual society of sentient creatures, it would be an incredibly collectivist and totalitarian one. This gives Cells at Work a weirdly dark edge to it - blood cells who can't "pass their training" are killed off unceremoniously, cancer cells are portrayed as people who just can't fit into society and thus tragic villains whose very existence is incompatible with the world's survival, etc.
@@CantusTropus Indeed, the Code Black spinoff kind of digs into dark aspect a bit more which I appreciated. It is quite the unique anime overall, kind of a shame they aren't continuing production.
That’s a great idea!
@@monolith_g Thank you, I am glad to see that you and quite a few other people seem to like and or agree with the idea... far more than I expected to say the least.
@@CantusTropus I do think it has to be taken into account that the ideas of totalitarianism and collectivism apply to the concept of a state on Earth, where individual people exist independently of one another, but every single 'creature' in Cells at Work is intrinsically linked to the others. They can't exist without one another, and none of them can leave the body they're in because of their very nature.
If a bunch of humans are trapped with one another and all of their actions (or inactions) affect everyone else (say you're all shipwrecked together on an island, or trying to start a space colony on Mars), the morality of collectivism is very different than it is in an otherwise normal and open society, because the collective state is being imposed by circumstances and is a hardwired fact of reality, not a decision being made by a totalitarian state.
Love the humour sneaking in! The whole video is engaging AND has amazing production value :)
Thanks so much! My editor is killing it!
This is the most unconventional space marine creation lore video I've seen. Very interesting to watch, thank you. 👍
~28,000 years ahead of schedule, actually. Astartes were developed at the end of M30, and even the Primaris were finished in a time frame much closer to that than to the modern setting of M41-M42.
🤓
@@oattyrant2035 🤓-🤓
@@Dylanfrias24 🤓-🤓-🤓
Exactly, M41 is just when the process was able to be performed by religious extremists that shunned the value of progress. Just imagine, an Imperium with the drive to improve like the Tau. That would be the golden age-returned. While what Bellisarius Cawl has done is controversial... He didn't exactly reinvent the wheel. It takes a ton of suspension of disbelief to think he had these primaris just hidden away in a closet for ten thousand years on the most penny-pinching planet in the system... all he did was get a little closer to what the emperor's assistant did when they created the Astartes.
It probably won't take us that long to be able to make one. So the timelines kinda match up sans all the apocalypse like things that happened on earth.
The main problem with some of these organs is that they come from The Emperor, who is the most perfect genetic specimen of the human race. He is a Perpetual who is almost completely immortal, and his sons are the templates for the geneseed that every chapter uses. Unless we can genetically modify the fuck out of a human until they get close to being like the emperor or even just a primarch, theres a good chance that we'd never get space marines
In support of your post I just wanted to include some details. Nonetheless props Dr. Raynor. It helps to note the Emperor himself, along with the other Perpetual (humans with nigh-infinite life spans and the ability to more or less magically reincarnate (this process functions similarly to magically recreating their entire genenome in anew separate original organism, memories included, after death if they somehow die) used his both his and his fellow's infinitely more stable genes suspectedly mixed with minor Warp Gods (physically unbound beings) to create the Primarchs and then used that sum of overpowered bioscience and more or less magic to create the material and circumstances necessary to develop Astartes. Basically meaning receiving Space Marine gene-seed would be like a humanoid deity gifting you an organ, the stability and viability of which at that point is unquestionable. However, in 40k it is difficult to obtain "stable" (uncompromising) gene-seed and the process is aggressive and unforgiving as their is rarely enough peace to perform it properly. Working modern day, realistic comparisons is a far cry among far cries as you mentioned, and the nigh non- fictional circumstances required to achieve the above definitely require like 30k years. Anyone who reads this despite it probs being incorrect here or there thank you, I was just inspired to give context bc Raynor put in so much work himself.
thats what the progenoid gland is for
Originally he was the avatar of the star child
New lore kinda goes around about it: Primarchs have a father and a mother, for some reason, despite being obviously patterned after Emp.
Some primarchs have dna removed, some have dna (even non human one) added, like I believe Leman and Sanguinus.
Lore implies they were made this special way to go to their own ideally picked planets, by Emp, behind the scenes, no less and HH was planned (but possibly broke too soon). It is a clusterfrick really. There is double and triple crossing and outsmarting galore. Emp>Chaos Gods>Astarte(their mother) and so on.
I would imagine that the ribs would be more of an overlapping, interlocked but still flexible set of plates that would still allow a full range of motion and expansion/compression. Then there are the Custodes, who had to be so over the top perfect that they didn't even try to explain them in the lore past "the Emperor scienced the sh¡t out of it".
I thought Space Marines used assistance from the armor to breathe better?
I mean the explanation for them is their genes are modified at the source rather than comparatively crude implants. They’re essentially completely gene therapy modified.
@@Fireclaws10 don’t forget that there’s also the magical aspect to their creation too
@@adamschasel6004 not to their creation no. The Primarchs yes, not space marines.
@@the11382 They don't. They're perfectly able to breathe without armour
The fact that you used Baki as an example in an already awesome video about 40k just made me love you. Not many have watched the Original Baki The Grappler. Subbbbbbbbed
Thanks again Dr. Raynor for another great 40k themed video! A lot of military members (current active duty, reserve, NG, and retired like me) all love Warhammer 40k very much. Those books and tabletop games sure helped us pass a lot of time on deployments and field exercises. Kept us out of trouble and stopped us from losing our minds to boredom.
That is a great idea. I hadn’t thought to do that on exercise!
9 yrs. Navy here. Just legitimizing your comment. More often than not I lose with them but I just can't give up on my iron warriors. Is it the battleship gray? Or rather the gun bolt metal. With a chaos hound quick deployment and some Berserkers I have a better time at it.
so funny to imagine a bunch of soldiers rolling dice in a desert or something lol
@@xTK421x Iron within Iron without hoorah!!
@@mercy3765 with an Iron fist brother!
I wanna see this dude react to Vulkan's actual size. Like how the physiology of a 12' tall human would even work? How big would his heart have to be? How deep would his voice sound?
I met Shaq once and was in awe at his size. Now imagine someone that makes Shaq look like a child, barely reaching Vulkan's chest.
I remenber in the second book a apothecary is not even sure if primarch biology is similar to a marine.
@@raro344 They're basically demi gods psychically and biologically
Space Marines aren't actually 12 feet tall. They're taller than normal humans, yes, but because almost nobody has ever actually seen one, their actual stature gets exaggerated by rumor and propaganda, just like every other hero humans have ever daydreamed about through all of history.
@@deusexaethera Vulkan isn't a Space Marine bro. He's a Primarch. Also the best bro in the galaxy.
@@johnduex4787 Given the revelation about moloch and the "deal" it can be said they are pretty much high degree demon host of sort.
This was an awesome video, as a 40k stan I was excited about how much I learned about REAL modern medicine and how to better understand the lore because of it. Honestly I hope Games Workshop/Black Library call you to help them with keeping things more science than fiction, I can't wait for more
Glad you enjoyed it!
doesnt stan apply to celebrities?
@@Daniel-wu6pl just means to be a super fan of something
Ive been a warhammer fan for a bit now and the fact I haven’t ran into this man until today blows my mind. A doctor talking about the space marine process. I couldn’t help but instantly subscribe to him! Keep it up!
There's nothing I love more than a medical professional who is willing to drop all the "super seriousness" and treat medical knowledge as something fun. We need more people like you to bridge the gap and humanize medical professionals. Hats off to you, sir.
I will shamelessly admit I could barely follow half of your explanations but I was definitely hooked on your descriptions of each organ and their possible real life equivalents. Your attempt to scientifically explain how he development of science fiction super soldiers has an excellent mix of scientific knowledge and witty humor. Rock on, Doctor!
Good, there is no shame in ignorance. The shame comes from not wanting to change that ignorance. Keep living and learning fellow human.
As much as the Imperium of Man gets clowned on as "primitive" by the rest of the setting, not all technological advancement is flashy lights and gizmos. The scientific breakthroughs necessary to make their logistics possible would be downright worldchanging.
Very cool breakdown, and I really liked the holistic inclusion of meditation towards the end there.
I mean humans from the age of technology supposedly had way more advanced tech then the imperium has ever made. The most advanced tech the imperium/mechanicum have are scrounged from ancient stc's. Compared to humanity's golden age in setting, they are primitive.
This knowledge wasn't seen the way we see "progress" and "technology" today, though. They were long ritualized and codified and became mystical. The Imperium has almost zero innovation.
@@firmanimad The imperium as a whole sure but there are certain institutions and planets etc within the imperium that do have technological innovation, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing new shit created and added to the lore, there's definitely development of technology, it's just very very very slow
It's very primitive, insofar as tech gets horded and centralized, that's why Tau routinely think their human enemies are backwards, when the Imperium has tech that vastly outstrips the Tau.
I love everything about this video. I'm a warhammer 40k youtuber and I love that the lore could be possible. Fantastic video. Also, "marine mammals" was the the best thing I heard today.
Just discovered ur channel. As a physicaltherapist I often have problems with what other doctors channels try to present or sell to people but ur content is fonded knowledge with u just being a cool dude. Keep up the fantastic work.
🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
I love stuff like this. I just recently found some good physicists on TH-cam and now a surgeon. Got a new viewer from me
I just found him this week and his content and perspective are so unique and easy to consume! Only upset o didn't find him LONG AGO!
I've loved Warhammer 40k since I was about 8 years old. Its great to see a real world doc go into the medical science behind the Space Marine program in such detail. I'm also really impressed that you've also taken the time to get all the terminology correct, which can mean only two things. A. You really did your homework for this one, which is awesome. 2. You're also a Warhammer nerd.
You know, I thought about the rib problem a while ago, and what I came up with was making the ribs be staggered depth wise, and wider/flatter than normal, so they'd frontally cover all areas from blows from straight on, without taking up the space each rib would need to move around.
the interlocking plates dont need to be fused to work as a solid armor, just look at scale armor. They just need to have the right geometry to expand while still providing full coverage.
Changing the depth would require tailoring the intercostal muscles as well, we have two layers of muscles between each of the ribs that help with breathing, so changing the depth requires changing where they attach, as well as which direction the muscle fibers run.
Their chest cavity would have to be monster huge for all those organs, two hearts for example means less room for the lungs to inflate, not only that due to their size and strength output their hearts would be monster huge.
Even r0id users and overweight people have massive hearts to support their size and bodybuilders have had heart attacks due to their massive hearts preventing them from getting enough oxygen.
@@Skelath yea hypertrophy of the heart is common in overweight people. Havent heard about it in body builders, but if they arent doing cardio to support the heart it makes sense.
And now I'm imagining a whole chapter of space marines dying to plueritis because they dont have room for it to inflame. 🤣
@@loganhagen6294 Yeah, a lot of gear causes hypertension causing hypertrophy of the heart and since the heart is a muscle and the gear they're taking increases the growth rate and their regular exercise is essentially exercising the heart through all that hypertension, well..
As someone with pectus excavatum who had the obscure Nuss procedure rib surgery I can tell you it's 10/10 pain for weeks. Yeah ribs are quite sensitive to change!
Was it severe? Did it cause you problems that made the procedure necessary? Asking as someone that also has pectus excavatum
Totally, I wasn't able to leave the hospital bed (or even move, or breath normally) for about a week, after that it was quite a bit better, but took several weeks until I stopped feeling pain
@@RobinCernyMitSuffix Thanks for the answer!
I haven't experienced any trouble breathing so the operation wasn't necessary because of that reason.
I did get the question if it caused me to feel "shame" about my body and if I wanted the procedure anyway.
Said no at the time (early teens), even though it did make me hate my body, didn't want to burden if it wasn't a health issue.
But now in adulthood I've wondered if maybe I should.
@@Dinstyvmorsa8539 It effected breathing and I couldn't play sports and was dangerously close to the heart
Dude this video is crazy. I'd never heard of anyone doing anything like this and I love the pseudo-science and real science concept.
I can't wait to see more of this in the future
You mention meditation when talking about the capesealen node, and you're right about Marines being Warrior Monks, they spend most of their time when not training or eating either praying, maintaining gear or working on projects such as art pieces or books, which while not full on meditation, can help, they also do long stretches of meditation to help centre their minds and keep them on task
I always find it incredibly fascinating to see someone with such knowledge applying it to the realism of video game fantasy. What I'm getting here is that - one day Astartes MIGHT be real. c;
What I'm digging most about this is that you speak in an informed fashion about the subject matter.
We get so many of these where the person goes "So lets see if these ass-tart guys could work." and then just disregard lore that isn't easy to think about.
This feels like serious attempt to analogize real world technologies and knowledge to the lore in question, with a real respect for the lore and a willingness to make minor leaps in logic.
In short, I love this.
Because it seems that theres enough research done for the lore that it isnt complete bs that these space marines could "theoretically" exist. And maybe theres an idea somewhere that those in the medical field could borrow. It's not the first time fiction helped reality.
"This means that each bone would need to be broken."
For the Emperor, I shall endure any pain!
I was diagnosed with Langerhan’s Cell Histiocytosis at 9 years of age, and thusly it manifested symptomatic Diabetes Insipidus, Growth Hormone Deficiency and a condition most comparable to Addison’s Disease (adrenal gland issues causing Adrenal insufficiency and Cortisol Deficiency).
When I was undergoing growth hormone treatment I did infact face a shortened growth window and accelerated puberty. To aid this I was given an implant every 2 months to inhibit hormones responsible for puberty. I don’t have a crystal clear memory of the exact drug or hormones which it blocked but from my lack of sex drive and inability to ejaculate, I assume testosterone was one of these blocked hormones.
Growth hormone treatment could be possible for achieving the desired gigantism, as the shortened growth window can be averted through further endocrinological changes.
You were probably administered a 5α-Reductase inhibitor, so yeah, so secondary male characteristics were delayed, since DHT is the hormone which is the driver for most of those characteristics. I'm glad your doctors knew what they were doing, at least.
What about oversized 👃 and 👂
@@2gj906 They’re not uncharacteristically large- perhaps larger than they would have been normally? Having no comparison to what I could’ve looked like without my condition I have no idea what to tell you :). I don’t believe I have a huge nose or ears if that helps to answer your question.
You are called...Billy? Like in the video? LOL
@@lawrencefrost9063 The irony isn’t lost on me. The name on my birth certificate is William, and my family have called me nothing but Billy. Unless I was in trouble 😂.
I'm glad this has been touched on by medical professionals. Really shows what someone has to go through in order to be that class of warrior.
Love Warhammer 40k, Love Baki, and love this channel more and more by the day 💪💪💪 Keep it up!
Glad you enjoy it!
I'm super surprised how well researched and lore aware this assessment is, very very good work!
This is fascinating stuff. It just goes to show that even something as fun, but admittedly silly, as a 40K Space Marine is an opportunity for some excellent science communication. Of course, should I wake one day to find myself living under the heel of an army of transhuman super soldiers created by Dr Chris as part of Emperor Kyle 'not a supervillain' Hill's new absolutist regime, then I might feel a little different.
Neuralink piloting a robot is more likely
Inquisitor! This one...this one right here. Heresy!
@@mariusevander2214 Aww hell yes Titan Princeps are a go
Some mad scientist somewhere may have already attempted to replicate this.
Great video! Though I think it's worth pointing out that the emperor created the astartes 28 millennia in the future, 10 millennia before the current setting in WH40k
Good point!
There's actually a space marine chapter named the Charcharodons that use deep meditation regularly and are made to resemble sharks, I think it would be an interesting offshoot on this video if you get the chance to cover it.
Is this like a comic or something
@@TheCastedone it is a "universe" set about 38'000 years into the future, it is a table top game similar to mech warrior and DnD, and has enough book series to last you you a few years, and many great video games. Ultra Marines is a good book to start with. bur with about ~40 different authors and space marine chapters (warrior clans) you can pick up about anywhere just start with the authors first book in his series. I've never found a bad book yet and can read hundreds of pages a day in my down time.
The Carcharadons forebears were the Terran born Raven Guard that were exiled from their Legion during the Great Crusade, following the Battle of Gate Fourty-Two.
Prior to Corax being found, the 19th Legion were reknown for ruthless practices during their wars of compliance. The 19th Legion had close ties with the Sons of Horus and Corax suspected that many of the Terran officers held more loyalty to Horus than they did him.
Not only that, because the Terrans in his Legion were so much like the Overseers that he overthrew on Deliverance Corax had little tolerance for their presence in his Legion when he took command.
At the Battle of Gate Fourty Two, when Horus ordered Corax to lead the assault against the Gate, he had most of the Terran born Ravenguard lead the assault.
It was a hopeless, brutal action that most of the Terran born Ravenguard killed, which included the vast majority of the officers.
Because of this action the remaining Terrans saw that their Primarch clearly hated them and that they no longer had a place in the Legion. This was further compounded when Corax exiled them.
Under the leadership of the former Legion Commander Arkhas Fal, who was known as the Shade Lord, the remaining Terrans, and those Lyceans who Corax felt did not belong in his Legion, were made to form a nomad predation fleet in the region of the galaxy beyond the Imperium's borders known only as the Ghoul Stars.
During the Heresy it is unknown what became of them but it is likely elements of them joined the Ashen Claws in prosecuting a campaign against the Night Lords. However at some point following the Horus Heresy they became the Carcharadons.
@@kailuun
The Carcharadons *may* be descended solely from Raven Guard, but in the books Red Tithe and Outer Dark, there are a handful of lines that tell us the Space Sharks are either 1) descended from a core of Raven Guard augmented with a smattering of penitent Night Lords who, over the millennia, on some number of occasions purloined progenoid glands from fallen Night Lords and more rarely World Eaters (honestly the most likely true origin) or 2) stem from a mixed band of Loyalist and penitent Night Lords probably under Jago Sevetarion, who over the many centuries outside the Imperium were forced to sometimes harvest World Eater and Raven Guard gene-seed (this is appreciably less likely than the first possibility).
The evidence includes a daemon referring to the Night Lords and Carcharadons as 'brothers' and a Carcharadon marine being called 'traitor-born scum'.
@@TheCastedone Warhammer and Warhammer 40k is a years old game(video and table top) comic and book series. Very outlandish and brutal but always very interesting.
2:23 "Two Hearts Beat as One" is one of the more "anime" titles for a scientific paper that I've ever seen.
my jaw dropped when you showed how we can graft one heart onto another, makes you think what we'll be able to do when we actually get to the year 40,000
We go cyberpunk 2077 or star Trek if we find semi kind life forum
I'm not familiar with the reference but I can't deny these evaluation an comparison to today's capabilities is great to hear how close we are an what similar methods today's are used
Well you see , there's this guy, we know him as the Emperor , he created 20 sons .................................................
I suggest watching Lutien here and Astartes where you can find it if interested.
@@mariusevander2214 i think TTS is much better. At least in comedy.
@@janhornak5739 depends on what you are looking for.
To be honest, while tts is fun there is often mix and match between old and new lore that, in my opinion, don't mix well.
There may not be that much information available, but can you do a video on the Adeptus Mechanicus from 40k? Their culture is about augmenting their bodies with mechanical parts. I'd be interested to learn how introducing foreign material on a large scale would affect the immune response
Anyway, really enjoyed the video!
I second this! Brains in bell jars and machine bodies run by nothing more than a brain and spinal chord much more cool than these weak fleshy space marines. Ave Deus Mechanicus brother!
This was simply fascinating. I was enthralled throughout the entire lecture. Can I get this man to teach a class on science fiction medical concepts? I'd never miss class.
Watching this while playing Space Marines 2
@@0o-0o694 same
this is a GREAT idea, can't wait!
Hope you like it!
My man you are chosing the Correct videos!
Glad you think so!
As a 40k fan and physician this is literally amazing!!! You sir are a boss. Thank you for this video!
This is the first of your videos I've watched, but your explanations of the specific functions of each organ (fictional and non-fictional) were fantastic. Much love from a new subscriber.
I’d love to see a live action movie with the Rock playing a space marine. He’s already done enough HGH to look big enough! Maybe he’s got an additional heart as well?
I've got a friend with 3 lungs. They're short, though.
@@dedotrongames6402 my uncle has a lion's heart, and a lifetime ban from the local zoo
@@CorvusCorone68 I meant my friend has a surgically implanted third lung. Aforementioned friend is short.
@@dedotrongames6402 i figured you were serious but i still felt like throwing in a dad joke
@DedotronGames whoosh
The introduction of testosterone at a younger age definitely leads to shorter final height. All 4 of my brothers are a good 6 inches taller than me, I was tall for my age till I was 14, then I just stopped growing. At the time I took part in a study, both my testosterone levels being abnormally high and I entered puberty early. The study docs said this might be due to my extreme training regime I started at a young age or the urge to train my have been linked to the high testosterone, it was impossible to know which came first by that point.
The point is higher testosterone and early puberty lead to a shorter final hight dispite earlier rapid growth.
Yep, the same thing happened to me. Still the same height I was when I was 14, but I don't really have anything to compare it to.
Testosterone converts to estrogen in the body, this is the main way males get the estrogen they need. Estrogen fuses growth plates. High T -> High E -> shorter stature
@@mrnerdguy1 that is very true but just because one is made from the other dosn't mean if the first is high the second is definitely going to be. The body can control the amount converted to a certain degree. It may be higher but not in proportion to the amount of testosterone. Studies have shown that higher t dosnt always mean higher e but as you say it can be the case.
I can confirm this as well.
I hit puberty at 11 and had a mustache and goatee at 13 full beard by 14. I ended up 6'6" in the end so things worked out.
Actually there are two types of Astartes currently, the first are the "first born" who are the OG Space Marines who have the original 19 organs but there are a new breed called Primaris who are based more closely on how a Primarch works which added 3 more organs if I am not mistaken. They are taller, stronger and faster than the already insane Space Marine norm though being young kiddos they are more physically threatening than the old vet Astartes. Either way you don't want either of them aiming for you.
@Lawofimprobability I think the very first batch was... Not sure I'll have to look but they have been recruiting just like the old Chapters did and they even have a process to make First Born into Primaris Marines. Which that is a guy you don't want to fight since that's Primarch like ability with centuries of real combat experience. Lore wise anyway but the new stuff they have not been as in detail as the old I have found. Like how on Terra did a random tech priest manage to do what the Emperor himself could not? Or how no and I mean NO ONE noticed a whole Primaris creation project on Mars of all places with as nosy and tech fetished as the Mechanicum is?
@Lawofimprobability the initial batch was, but now there’s the Rubicon Primaris surgery to convert firstborn into Primaris. It’s extremely dangerous and presumably only plot armored characters are surviving it as we’ve really only seen big names going through it.
40k is pretty weak to be honest
Doctor Chris, I can't even begin to express how damn delightful, fun, and informative this is!
Brilliantly done, sir! Thank you for crafting this for us to enjoy!
Yes inquisitor, this video right here
With this dive into 40k lore, I must recommend that you look into the creation, storage, and deployment of Eversor assassins. I suspect that it would be quite the treasure trove...
This is really cool! I've been into warhammer for well over 23 years and now a 4th year Immunology PhD student. I appreciate this on so many differnet levels from gaming memories to molecular immunology :) You're awesome and I'm sub'ing
The God Emperor has need of your skill, apothecary !
@@Emperor_Of_Mankind almost done with this thing, man. I’m destined for the bioweapons division!!!
But can we really trust a magos with meaty extremities?????
This is amazing lol. I'm pleasantly surprised to find someone seriously try to break down my favorite franchise into science!
I really appreciate your style of content. This kind of fantasy/reality dichotomy makes for great edutainment. Between this and your back and forth style video on shotgun damage, I'm really enjoying your style. I hope you do this for more, and consider other fantasy media. There's an infinite ocean of stuff that your kind of content can work wonders with.
This was actually very interesting. Nice to look at the 40K Universe from an actual medical point of reality. Amazing how fleshed out this lore is. Keep up the great work!
I'm slowly getting into Warhammer lore. This is actually interesting stuff when having it explained in modern medicine.
I stumbled on a dude named Leutin last week and have since bought a few games and watched way too many videos.
@@Mondo17 daddy cavill got me into building and painting
8:40 Wait, is that why all the space marines look kinda wack?
Don't make excuses! We are not 41 but merely 29 thousand years ahead of schedule, as Astartes were created for the first crusade in 31k. Seems like scientists are in need of some motivational support by Ecclisiarchy and/or inquisition.
maybe this is where the Emperor creates the Thunder warriors to cleanse the Earth of all heresy
I've been a 40k fan since I was 9 and my older brother bought me the older 5th edition Assault on Black Reach. I am absolutely amazed that an actual, educated, practicing doctor can look at the first six organs of Space Marines and essentially go "Ehhh, probably."
I can't wait for the next video where Dr. Raynor gets into the objectively more bullshittery organs a Space Marine has. I wanna know how plausible those are!
And they still get clap a humans they weak
Seeing a space marine walk by would make you question what it even means to be human. A combination of genetic and cybernetic improvements that goes right down the trans humanism rabbit hole. Rather then the genetic evolution of the anime Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet where humans turn into squids that can survive in hard vacuum, or the humans that become complete cyborgs in anime like ghost in the shell, in 40k you find a middle of the road approach which are effectively futuristic human strong men that are stupidly strong, intelligent, long lived and resilient.
Doc I love your videos. You have to be the most down to earth Dr I have ever seen. I have met a few that weren't. You explain everything so that I can understand it. And you always get me to smile or laugh on all your videos. Good job
Actually in 40k there is a high attrition rate during the process to become a Marine. This is due to rejection, stress and mental failure. The process is not always 100%.
Maybe I didn’t watch enough but I’m sure he referenced at the start that were going to assume a 100% success rate purely to continue building Billy otherwise Billy wouldn’t be able to go further in the process, and then he has to create another story analogy lmao
Actually he stipulated that the body of Billy will not reject the transplants.
The Catalepsean Node is actually absent from Black Templars, the guy the graphic showed it being smushed into. The Imperial Fists and their descendants are all missing that implant, which makes the Crimson Fists multiple month vigil during the Rynn's World incident even more impressive
the... angry marines?
@@GeorgeTsiros i think Angry Marines are a fan chapter, not canon
@@CorvusCorone68 I think the Angry Marines are just another name for Helbrecht's boys.
@@GeorgeTsiros nope
@@GeorgeTsiros They’re not,
First of all super dope. I literally can't get enough of two of my favorite things. Biology and Warhammer ahah.
Speaking of the mediation portion reducing total time sleeping, would this in turn reduce the chance for things like the secretion of GH? Like the monks who say a reduction to four hours, seems like a a very short time to adequately release any recovery hormones during deep sleep.
Please keep making more of these, easily digestible and very interesting!
As a 40k fan listening to Dr. Chris Raynor give real life examples of what we know is possible and what we know is not possible to do with the fictional world of 40k gene therapy is great.
Fun fact: the interlock design for the rib cage resembles the shell of the iron clad beetle that has a fused interlocked shell that is really stupidly hard to break. Even when broken the interlocked joints will pop apart distributing the force across the whole structure. So even if you rammed a marine with enough force to break their bones they would still be able to fuck you up
How do you breath tho
@@firmanimad either enlarged ribcage or sphericals
@@firmanimad that's the nice part, you don't.
It's a good thing this is a power fantasy ip, and you better don't over analyze things.
@@firmanimad I don’t think in lore they breath like normal people, they don’t use negative pressure or anything like that.
I'd love to see you cover the potential anatomy of The Doomslayer, considering he received most of his power from nigh-supernatural means.
He can't, because he got his power from the divinity machine
@@MAL1GNANT true but he clearly went through physical changes from it, and aside from that, Doomguy was nuts even before augmentation
@@terapziegames His physical augmentations were not evident. It boosted his strength without majorly altering his physiology
Doc, Primaris Marines are up to 22 implants , you'll need an update.
No, I am gonna talk about them when I am done the first 19 organs.
@@ChrisRaynorMD Glad to hear, keep up the good work, love the vids.
They'll all turn to chaos or spontaneously combust in a few hundred years.
Just stumbled upon this video (the TH-cam algorithm knows me well enough to suggest a 40k video, haha) - subscribed 7 minutes in.
I really love how you manage to explain complicated medical terms and concepts so succinctly, allowing the viewer to pause at their own discretion - a perfect balance between a super long video explaining stuff some may already know, and a super short one just glancing over important stuff that even more people may have no clue about.
As a biologist and a warhammer fan this is precisely the type of content I'm looking for