it's frankly astounding that horizon 4, a game that came out on steam a YEAR after ms store, had more players last week than motorsport 8 had _at launch_
@@Maccil And PC players hate buying anything that isn't on Steam. In retrospect, I should've bought it on the MS Store (even though it's terrible) just to transfer over my saves and apparently the MS version works better with peripherals.
@@purwantiallan5089 Microsoft should've cancelled Turn 10 by now. Why are they still employed? Where is that aggressive american company energy when you need it. That whole studio just needs to be sacked immediately. Refund the people that paid for this insult they call a product, and start with a studio that actually gives a damn, because Turn10 clearly doesn't care anymore.
Forza Motorsport is fascinating in just how hard they missed the mark. They really couldve just done a remake of fm4 and everyone would have loved it. The community isnt asking the world from you Turn 10…
@anti-tryhard I went back and played FM4 on my 360 recently. It’s not just nostalgia, I found it way more entertaining than modern forza games. I think the only thing they could fuck up is the car list, since it’d probably be mostly modern cars.
Think about it this way: TORA put up with the shit house game that was Forza Motorsport 7 for 6 years but 3 months of Forza Motorsport is too much to handle. Truly a masterclass in creating a game that kills a community
I mean, it builds up right? TORA was probably already done putting up with FM7’s shit, FM8’s sorry state might’ve just been the straw that broke the camels back
I'm thinking Forza Motorsport is the final version of the Forza franchise. There's no way they can justify being given the resources for developing another game after the shit show of this most recent release.
Been saying this to my friends, I have played every Forza since it's Inception, the franchise is something close to my heart but I don't understand how you can royally fuck up so bad with a new release like Turn 10 has. They've had SIX years to develop this new game, and all they had to do was improve on the base they already had. Nobody asked for a new levelling system, but we all asked for better AI, a better online experience, improvements to the livery editor as well as to car customisation in general. Players wanted to see old favourites to return, where is Blue Mountains or Fujimi Kaido? I don't get it. Six years of development time in game development is such an incredibly long time to come to the party with your dick out swinging whilst showing your competition why you are the top dog, but they completely missed the mark? I understand there will be players here who are happy to see some sort of change, but the car roaster is lacklustre, the track roaster lacklustre, the newer elements like customising your driver literally have no purpose. Why are the improvements added to FH5 not present in the new Motorsport game? Where is the granular synthesis audio engine that allows players to hear how the car audio changes with different upgrades? Where are the improvements that where made to photo mode? No drone mode implementation for spectators or spectators at all? They have this code sitting on servers, it's not going to take much to implement it back into the engine? (I'm a software engineer by trade). The whole exercise seems like it was lead as more of a PR stunt than actually creating a product they care about. Dan should feel shame, but Chris ought to resign his gamer card and especially his management card. What a pitiful experience Forza Motorsport has been.
Customizing the driver probably made them very stunning and brave. Why? So they can add the "other" gender. Look everyone, as much as you hate the other side you must admit this woke liberal thing is a large problem. Forza didn't hire experienced and passionate people. They hired woke. This what you get!!!
You had me at calling out Dan/Chris. Dan’s been a liar for a while (I’ve been saying ‘FU, Dan’ since FM3, I think), and I found out about Chris in the FM8 hype material. Was immediately suspicious, because he seemed like Dan 2. I was right. They’re two sides of the same lying coin. Meet the new Chris, same as the old Dan.
This! I remember going through the FM suggestion forums and how you said it was what most people (myself included) asked for. Just a better Forza Motorsport. That was it. I have no idea how this game was given the green light because it is almost the complete opposite of what was asked for. The thing that gets the most is that it's literally their forum. Not some random reddit or Facebook section. And they still ignored it. That's really bad.
@@illxetI wouldn’t even say they went “woke” - they just got lazy and only see FM as a money-maker instead of a passion project. As many problems that GT7 had at launch/still has from what I’ve seen, the game is beautiful and actually feels like it was made with love and attention to detail.
@@illxetnot sure they did anything woke, just seems like standard greed to me: Do as little as possible to make as much as possible, hopefully sailing along on brand name and/or predatory business practices
It's simple. Forza devs over-promised and under-delivered. To me, the worst thing about this game is the cars. Bug, glitches and broken AI can be fixed, but we're stuck looking at outdated car models from previous Forza titles. Not a single vehicle in the whole game says "built from the ground up".
At least they are Xbox 360 era models, which look OK polygon-wise. Gran Turismo 5 & 6's standard cars were PS2/PSP models with better textures. Still not good to use models from 4 or more motorsport games ago.
@@Dartingleopard Gran Turismo started recreating its models with GT sport and I didn’t find a single poorly made or outdated model in GT7 (1000+ hours played, 50+ liveries made). Polyphony just executed what T10 only promised.
I think a lot of people are losing patience for this "Launch 20% of a barely functioning game and fix and add later" that a lot of modern live service style games are taking. I know I'll be looking at a lot of upcoming Forza products with a lot more scrutiny after this disappointment. I'm not getting refunded, and I paid for a working and feature full game when it came out, and I've been essentially cheated out of that. Hopefully some other upcoming "Simcade" racers can fill that niche.
I uninstalled the game about a week after it came out, being a long time forza player I was very disappointed. I won't be giving t10 or motorsport another opportunity and I won't be supporting companies that continue to release unfinished games. if that means I have to stop gaming, at this point I'm perfectly fine with that lol. the detachment from consumers is too big nowadays and no one cares enough to use the power they have to do anything about it
My PC was the best investment I’ve ever made for racing. I get that it’s a different market though. If you can try iRacing, or assetto corsa, I guarantee you won’t want your money back at least.
I’ve been playing Forza since 2005, on the original Xbox. I was 4 years old at the time. I have literally grown up with this franchise, and to see its downfall is quite depressing. After Forza Motorsport 4, we all thought Turn 10 could only go up. Sadly, the exact opposite has been happening over the last 13 years.
I didn’t play forza since 2005 as I was born that year however I do own it. Here’s how I feel about the current Forza title. My ps5 is turned on and now I’m heading on GT7 as a courtesy to forza!
@@worldwar1424 As someone who played all forza and all gt titles GT7 is as depressing as FM8. The "career" is a joke and it took more than a year to get any decent improvements. GT just like forza should just have cloned the fourth instalment (gt4 and fm4)
@@Hailtothebreak as someone who also owns both entireties of both I believe the GT7 campaign is alright. I personally enjoyed it with the exception of how they’ve handled the awarded cars. But I myself don’t mind it at all. Fm8’s career I’d say shouldn’t be compared to GT7’s. Seems like an after thought.
Racing Haven and TORA have some of the most dedicated Forza players. If your most loyal customers are fed up with your services, then there's something terribly wrong with you.
It's sort of like how the furries are a good measure of the health of a social media platform. If the furries bail, then the platform is likely to go under or become a hellhole soon.
Good video, great points and well presented. Turn10 really REALLY dropped the ball with this. I fear this will permanently effect the Forza franchise badly, but I sincerely hope Turn10 pulls a No Man’s Sky and makes this game what it should’ve been.
They've genuinely dropped the ball with absolutely every game they've made since 4 tho. How did anyone expect them to actually deliver when they as a studio have been proving for OVER A DECADE now that they can't deliver. I really feel like people just don't pay attention to the track record for some of these devs teams and just see the newest game in the franchise they liked when they were teenagers and buy it anyways. Shit's wild tbh.
Hello Games didn't have Microsoft to deal with after NMS finished with Sony. There's no future, sustained improvement for this game, not until Microsoft leaves. Microsoft will probably just fire some devs, reshuffle the others to Horizon or other projects, and leave Motorsport dead.
@@SALEENS7GTR5 They reshuffled the 343 team after Infinite, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's a bad thing. It depends on who they replace, and who they replace them with. They didn't kill Halo though, and I doubt they'll kill Forza.
The game is working as intended. While there are improvements to be made, feedback has made it clear that most players like the game and it's system as is. - Turn 10, 2024.
Its clear as day that FM doesn’t need any improvements or fixes, its best sports game of 2023 so why would you fix game that is already best in its category? I wonder what it could be if the money and effort went into development and not into game awards judges pockets.
Thank you for bringing this to a wider audience. As a staff member at RH and a long-standing community member, it's genuinely crushing to watch what has happened over the past couple of months since FM released. I just hope T10 realises they're putting us in an unsaveable situation here, and that we as a community can only last so long if there's nothing to keep us together anymore
to be honest sticking to FM7 would probably be your best bet but even that isnt a perfect game, sure FM7 has its own fair share of bugs but none are nearly as bad as FM8
It's absolutely ridiculous that this game won a Game Award for accessibility when it doesn't even have the option to use a proper crew chief. It's the most basic accessibility feature you could ever ask for in a racing game.
Even Daytona USA 1/2 have a more competent and a better crew chief that sounds he really give a fuck about you. Those games are over 25 years old and was originally arcade releases back in the 90's. Fucking embarrassing.
@@zacharywolf2341How? Adding a crew chief would basically be adding closed captioning to a lot of your telemetry so in that way it helps people with different visual abilities.
7:32 Ah yes, can't wait for a game, that was 6 years in the making not even from scratch, take "a couple of years" to finally be able to deliver the bare minimum of quality, just so Turn10 can get some stupid "labour of love" award for slowly dripfeeding cut content back to FOMO weekly/monthly challenges. FM is irredeemable, there is literally no point in trying to salvage it. If any other franchise would've released a new entry this broken, empty, unoptimized, a straight downgrade from its predecessors, after THIS FUCKING LONG, this game wouldn't even survive at all. But because the racing genre is all but dead now, Turn10 got a GOTY award. This is like if CP2077 got a GOTY award in 2020.
@@JZStudiosonlineAgreed, not that it excuses any of them, but those two (and arguably CoD) show how a game series can just sorta hobble along because enough people throw money at it to make them not care about actually making a good game.
As a Forza loyalist, this is honestly heartbreaking to hear. I honestly like this game, and enjoy playing it, but it’s hard not to notice how hard we’ve fallen.
@heroicsultan7311 I just only this year played the Xbox One version. That game was PG FH2 on a budget. Seriously. Shouldnt have even released it on 360 but Im happy because I didnt have a One at the time.
Competitive racing organisations will also spend a great deal of time testing cars (and tunes), tracks, and systems in place to ensure their event goes smoothly so you know it's a big deal when they decide they can't even put SOMETHING together in the game 😬
It's a lot of different problems, all coming down onto a single point. The CarXP system adds a lot more time and effort onto an already time consuming process of building and balancing cars for league events. Then, once the events are organised and the races are run, the multitude of issues in multiplayer become a big problem. I race in leagues myself, and every race we do one of the biggest problems we get is some people not being able to see other drivers. This can cause absolute chaos as you get people that are effectively on autopilot and will take out other drivers without even realising. Between that, cars randomly throwing up smokescreens, server instability, fundamental lobby options either missing or not functioning as they should, amongst other things, make it a very stressful and needlessly complicated experience for admins and competitors alike. It's hard enough to run leagues without the game doing everything in it's power to get in the way of having a good fair race and having fun.
I think what frustrates me most is that motorsport just didn’t feel much more focused or improved over the last few horizon games. Really thought that scoping down to track racing would allow the games highlights to shine, but in reality progression feels hollow from the start, and I find unless I’m excited to get on and try something I don’t want to play at all. Which is sadly how I felt about the last 3 horizon games.
I'm an older gamer (turning 40 this year) who did most of my motorsports stuff on track (SCCA, NASA, lots of drift events). I've always been into the simcade/sim racing casually but I will say this version of Forza was the first one to make me uninstall a title. Even with the early frustrations of AC, I still kept it around and saw it get better. FM feels like it's almost irredeemable and I would feel bad for anyone using this variant of FM as their introduction into simcade/sim racing.
I just looked it up and was curious if AC released in early access which it did in 2013. So with that it was given time to improve. The problem with these AAA (or so called AAA games) is they keep putting out games that are clearly early access without telling us they are early access....games that come to mind are BF 2042, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, RedFall. Games that were pushed out but really not completed. It is why they get tons of updates to finish or fix shit.
You are still young (40 is the new 30''s lol), Im 58 and counting. Played it from the V1 on Xboxes, with wheel/pedals but they have miserably failed to make it a semi-sim playable with wheel/pedals for the casual simmer i am. Thanks to Steam for refunding my money, Turn 10 missed all the corners and crashed and burned FM they should be very ashamed and resign from their jobs. FM oh how I wanted it to reach its potential but sadly Turn 10 did not care for it. RIP FM ;(
The terrible customization system kneecapped this game right out of the gate. Then once the bugs and lacking single player revealed themselves it was basically a death sentence. They can likely still save it but I'm not confident they actually will.
I 100% understand why someone like SuperGt avoids this game most, if not all the time, for his uploads... Competitively, there is nothing to hold it under it's crumpling weight of expectations and false promises.
I was watching one of his older videos recently where he says that he'd be "playing the hell out of Forza Motorsport" when it comes out. Safe to say that his actions speak to how badly this game fell flat
6:30 Hot Wheels Unleashed out of all things got around this by letting the player manually pick a projection perspective for decals, no more worrying about zones and weird UVs. I can't see why they couldn't do something similar.
I think the biggest thing that I disagree with you about, is the statement that this is such a talented Studio. Clearly that's no longer the case. Whatever Talent they may have once had has all gone. It seems that everyone left is either temporary devs or has spent so much time failing up they no longer know what to do. This is not the product of a talented studio. This is the product of a studio that is floundering because they know that all their talent has gone and we can only hope that they realize they're in over their head and they bring in people that can fix this. This is the culmination systemic and repeated failure and downgrades over the past two console Generations. Rather than maintain games or build on what they had with Forza Motorsport 4 they have been slowly eating away at it and losing valuable employees until this is the result. I love your one year timeline, unfortunately it seems that this may be the last Motorsport title we see. This may be the nail in the coffin for turn 10 Studios
I don’t think I would come back unless they changed the car upgrade system back to just paying for upgrades and/or optimize the game better. but yeah the current system actively dissuades players from buying new cars, and my favorite part is experimenting with different cars. can’t do that now without sitting through the AI doing 50 laps around Le Mans.
Yup, that's what ruined it for me as well. The #1 thing I liked about Forza was being able to buy a car and instantly build and tune my ideal version of it, and experimenting with different directions to take cars in. Now it's just way too time consuming to get to that point.
Yea, I played it for about 2 days after it released. Got to thinking about how much time it was going to take me to just level up and customize the few cars I knew I wanted, let alone any that might catch my eye, and just walked away. The other stuff probably would have made me drop it sooner or later, but the carpg system made me punt it quick.
You were spot on on everything you said and so much more could have been said. I can't understand the headlines they gave us in 2022 "built from the ground up" and "the most technically advanced racing game ever made" for the game to be released in this state after 6 years in the making. Something really wrong is/was going on with T10. Also, the communication that T10 just published falls very short on the major issues being addressed and on the mea culpa they should have done, for deceiving us and releasing the game in this state, but also for the poor communication on their part thus far.
Only thing on my wish list you missed is a Weather Radar. If we're going to have a dynamic weather system you're essentially flying blind when making any tire decisions in changing conditions
Similar thing happened with the recent Battlefield game. The lack of rent a server killed a lot of BF communities that had to keep playing older titles.
I left after 2weeks when the game came out. Came back when i heard they “fixed” the carpg system. Turns out it was just an illusion of a fix you still needed to level up to 50 to upgrade things. Thinking about uninstalling it again.
There are some relatively smaller changes that would make me want to play it a lot more as a causal in single player but it’s going to need some major changes to reach the level the game deserves to be at
I paid for early access and uninstalled it after the second week. I'm really hoping that they'll prove us all wrong in revamping the game. But I'm not hopeful at all.
Im exlusively a GT player but have a vested interest for all racing games to succeed. I just love gaming and driving, and competition in this niche industry keeps them all innovating, learning from other franchises and competing against each other to make better games. Thats good for us as consumers because we in theory get better racing games as a result, so I hope T10 can fix forza motorsport and make it what it could be.
I don't mean to sound harsh, because he's a nice guy, but the fault ultimately rests with Phil Spencer. He's increased the amount of content and studios but is not wielding the stick of authority sufficiently, to ensure that first party games are good as, if not better than the opposition. When you're left considering a PS5 so that you can have a decent driving experience. Not good. What's the point of having billions of dollar at you're disposal, if you're not going to use it to make the best games.
I will say there was some good that came out of this for me: I was motivated to buy other racing games and save myself $70. It's hilarious to me that the wacky Forza Horizon 5 has a stronger competitive scene than what is supposed to be the competitive racing game.
hot take, but if GTA online didn't have hackers, or cheaters. it would be the superior racing game. its not a sim its not even simcade, its arcade but it is damn well one of my personal favorite driving games besides the grid series. i still log into gtao every now and then just to buy a car and cruise with it. its a shame its over run by hackers and rockstar wont do anything about it.
They should combine Horizontal and Motorsport. 1 game with more time to cook with both an open world aspect and a track focused aspect. Bring all the fans of both series into a single game.
What did they do for 6 years? I'm genuinely confused about how the game could launch in the state it did with 6 years of development and the backing of one of the biggest tech companies in the world. I also have no clue who this game was made for, I play mainly single-player in Forza, but there is nothing to do outside of the few FOMO races they add every month to the game. There is no career, no alternative game modes like a history of Motorsport or party games. The only thing a solo player has to do after beating the limited selection of "cups" is rivals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy rivals, but thanks to the CARPG system, I can't build cars like I could in literally every other Forza game. I'm forced to level up cars that may not even be worth the time just to set a rivals time. Then theres the AI, even if we had a proper career mode like fans have asked for since Forza 3, the AI is so bad it would ruin the fun of a career mode. On the multiplayer side of things, I've actually had some fun when I get a good lobby, but most the time it's a buggy mess, with a broken penalty system and a plague of rammers. There's no private lobbies, there's no airfield or test track, there's no alternative game modes. There's almost no reason to play multiplayer either, no rewards, no proper ranking system, no reason to play other than it is actually fun if you can find a good lobby. There's no sense of community in this game like there has been in the horizon series or FM4. My friends I've played Forza with for over a decade all stopped playing within 2 weeks after launch. I was in a highly skilled club in FM4 that had all kinds of top downloaded tunes and frequently set elite track times, none of those guys play anymore. No clubs, no auction house, no tune or livery sharing options. I desperately want this game to be good, I'm predominantly a controller player, I occasionally play more harcore Sims, but prefer to play Forza on a controller (fight me lol) and Forza is the best feeling racing game to play on controller. I love how FM2023 plays, but that's the only thing I like about it. I'm playing GT7 10x more than FM2023 even though I much prefer the driving on FM2023, but unlike Forza GT7, it gives me a reason to play. I want the best for Forza, but I'm extremely doubtful, I don't think I'm willing to wait 2-3 years for this game to he what it should have been at launch, and frankly, I'm tired of supporting this "games as a service" model that allows developers to double charge me for content on drip feed.
That ended up being way longer than I wanted it to be. My bad, I'm a Forza fan boy who just wants Forza to be good again. If you read all that you're a real one.😂
I've seen many claims they actually only started work on this 4 or so years ago, but I do suspect they had major issues in development that caused big delays or redesigns. The game feels like something that got rushed out the door, there are xml config files that reference a lot of missing features as well.
The game has so much potential, but I just want the car progression system deleted entirely. Nobody asked for it, and I don't even know why some players like it.
Good video summarizing the issues. In my experience T10 does not listen/act on what the community has been asking for, until it is too little too late. All the points in your road map were mentioned during this games development & testing phases. They have been suggested & pleaded for actual decades. It is sad to see the loyalty of the competitive communities be rewarded with a half done title after 6+ years of waiting. They shouldnt have to wait Another 2 years for the game to be polished as a AAA should be. They deserve better than that.
The Sr. management at Turn10 must be fired...this game is a HUGE disaster and loaded with bad decision, and bugs. 6 years to build this huge mess "from the ground up"...
I'm just left really confused at how this has all happened. I don't want to claim Forza has an unlimited budget, but they are a first party title with worldwide brand recognition. Every car guy or racing guy in the gaming industry, aspires to work on this game, and it's who Forza should have no problems hiring. Even under tight deadlines or budget constraints, the game should be of such quality due to the staff's love of racing, that it redefines the racing game landscape every few years. The product they put out this year, is a hodgepodge of bad design decisions shamelessly lifted from other games that in a lot of instances didn't make any sense + were universally hated before people even got to try them, and technical issues completely uncommon with first party titles. The product is so half-baked that it's giving the conspiracy theorists ammo regarding DEI initiatives.
I can only compare it to Halo Infinite where none of the original crew was left to work on it, no one knew where it was going, temps were heavily used on short term contracts, and they had a bunch of people that straight up hated Halo, or didn't care about Halo. I've been wanting to see a timeline of game studio employees vs the game releases and receptions. I don't know what the fuck happened to all the old industry vets who had the passion for what they were making, but it really feels like that's largely dead and gone and replaced with less skilled people who are doing a job, not a passion. Like, Digital Foundry's comparison between FM8 and GT7, FM has the same track and trackside errors like typos in the welcome track signs as prior titles. They don't care. GT7 also has much more accurate trackside details, tree lines, etc. Even for how crap the "campaign" is, you can tell they at least have a passion for it.
@@JZStudiosonline Unfortunately, that's where the conspiracy theories come in regarding DEI, and other, much more extremist ideas about upper management. It's very depressing and one of the main reasons I spend so much time on emulators. So long as I can upscale it and my wheel generally works, nobody can rip Forza 2 away from me.
@@AustinOgonoski Well, it's not a theory that none of the original crew is still there. But when they do office tours and a large number of people are in their 20s and 30s, they aren't old vets and younger people tend to think they're better than the guys that literally created the tools they're using. There's too many true stories about original creators being pushed out. I guess I need to work on getting the Forza games running. Never really tried 2.
@@JZStudiosonline The gaming industry isn't the most attractive industy for a game developer/software engineer/programmer etc. They all probably moved on to better positions, and the new generation that has been brough it just isn't as talanted/passionate and or are not allowed to show their skill and passion due to other factors in the company. I don't know, It really doesn't matter how much skill and passion you have if you end up just being a cog in the machine, all passion dies when the coorporation becomes large enough and/or is mismanaged. I would also say many things are alot more comlicated these days, which ultimately makes it harder to produce good games. On a side note, i'm pretty convinced there is some type of agenda going on in media/gaming and the entertainment industry as a whole these days. I have a theory why this is the case, but I won't share it here. People need to figure it out on their own.
@@Skumtomten1 The issue is everyone I know and have seen in those kind of roles, it's universally pretty shit. The game guys could maybe transfer to VFX studios, which also sucks. I don't know what else they could really do in the same field, unless they change careers entirely. Same with software engineers and programmers, the entire industry is in shambles right now and they're all having pretty massive layoffs. People always argue that games are harder to make now, and I vehemently argue that's complete horseshit. The tools and resources have never been so readily available and easily accessible. Solo devs are teaching themselves how to make games off of YT videos, I can't buy that a major studio using the worlds most popular engine with near unlimited resources can't make a fun, decent game. The logic just doesn't track.
As a pc driver with wheel, I could look past some of the driving aspects of this game, as the core bit is fun However, the huge disadvantage of playing in car for multiplayer races turned that pc game pass into a 30 day test and forget, especially as bug riddled as this is I truly hope they sort it out for the xbox group, as they really have so few choices on that platform
I was in the same boat. Played it on Game Pass and stopped. It had some cool aspects but overall it feels like a early access game. I expected a fully fleshed out completed game. Once again the SP portion is terrible. I did like the MP early on but just did not feel like playing the game over other titles like AC or AMS2 ...especially with AMS2 single player AI ! ! !
It's a massive kick in the teeth considering they wanted to sit there and say it was built from the ground up (where was it ever said just the tyre physics were rebuilt? please?) only for us to get a somehow more broken FM7 with even stranger and simpler glitches at launch (career upgrade screen and save for an example) and this product took them SIX. FUCKING. YEARS. FM4 had a smaller turnaround and I think I speak for everyone when I say that game is objectively better. More community based, more career options and routes that somehow drove you to do more even without a story, and certainly a drag race or two. Nothing upsets and disappoints me more than this release and I got the game pass for it. I can't imagine the strife people who paid full price or even ultimate edition are feeling right now.
I think that, at minimum, if they pump out more incremental fixes/updates like every 2 weeks, it will inspire a little more confidence in me that they are hard at work. Don't get me wrong, I really do think that they are trying to work on things and fix their game, but only giving monthly updates with the game in its current state is mind boggling. Even if their mid-month fix/update only addresses 1 or 2 things, at least it is showing the community that they are continually working to improve their system.
This game has an 84 on metacritic, and iirc, it was slightly higher at launch. I was stoked since the day the announced it, as a big FM7, FH4, and FH5 fan. When reviews came out, they mostly ranged from solid to glowing, i was so happy it was all working out! Fast forward a few hours; I have the game installed, and I'm ready to go, only to slowly realize that every time the game tries to save my career progress, it crashes every time. For a month. Although thats fixed now, it absolutely set the tone for the FM 23 experience: competent (if slightly disappointing) bones, constantly plauged by glitches, weird gameplay choices, and zero community involvement. At this point I'm basically waiting long term to see if the game improves... should've probably just subbed to gamepass for a month.
Many people suspect Metacritic reviews might have been botted. There are a lot of reviews with straight 10's, reading like incomprehensible AI generated non-sense from accounts with 1 review each and usernames made of two randomised words
I wonder why more devs do not do early access. Like let a percentage of players play the game as it is developed to get feedback on what works and what should be changed or adjusted. Things like the car upgrade system would have been scrapped had we got to experience it in a early access period.
I'm not surprised, and I still don't understand why it won the award. Worst of all, DustinEden got harassed by Xbox fanboys for criticizing Forza Motorsport. Sigh... Looking at the situation with Forza Motorsport, I'm worried about Forza Horizon 6. If you want to know the problems with racing games, watch Raycevick's I Love Racing Games, They Suck! It's a great video.
The other issue about lack of competitve scene, si lots of time that is what drives social marketing. Look at the all the youtubers GT Sport produced based top split and guide videos. All the free marketing they got from that. People are hungry to know who the top guys are, who the most dirty driver is, and how to improve to be like those guys. It's the same with every competitive game out there from Fortnite to Call of Duty. A thriving competitive scene that brings the top drivers in the game together so everyone starts to know who they are is appealing. Look what LFM has done for ACC. There were leagues and youtubers, but it's popularity has grown significantly with a working ranking system. And really, there is still enough players to start to produce that, but it would require a total redo on how they do matchmaking. I joined an event 5 time in 2 minutes, 5 different lobbies, 4 of them brand new at S4999. The current system is effectively completely random and only partially works if they is a massive online playerbase. But there is likely still enough players an event to create 10-12 splits. That's enough to get the ball rolling. But right now, there is no top split.
I’ve been saying to all my friends for years that the devs themselves are NOT car people. I think turn 10 makes decisions based on what they think car people will like while also trying to maximize play time. I think they prioritize play time to maximize profits but neglect to add features or even cars that the community wants. They listen to the corporate bosses more than the actual community that plays the game. Super frustrating.
Really strong intro to this video, and well said. Enjoy the game if you are. But we need more respectful and intelligent conversation about the short comings of FM. Hopefully this helps T10 fix the issues and right the ship.
Can we all finally acknowledge that Microsoft has no idea how to handle an IP? Microsoft has released multiple flops this generation and show no signs of slowing down.
I have decided against buying Froza Motorsport the moment i heard it has a 60FPS lock for multiplayer on PC. That is just such an absurd thing to have... it tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with it. I played Motorsport on and off ever since FM2 on the 360. ...very casually. But with every new entry i played less of it... because i had to start over from scratch with my garage and i can only drive the Honda CRX or Civic for so long every game before i just don't bother anymore to get to the good stuff (Horizon throws cars at you left and right... it is not so bad to start over if that is the deal, but with FM i would have liked to have a persistent garage each time the next entry is released. The HOW doesn't really matter.) I never really delved much into multiplayer. My problem with the 60FPS lock is not only that i find it visually unappealing for a racing game to have such low framerate (i play on a 144Hz G-Sync screen for almost 10 years now. I do not WANT to go back to locked 60. Call me a FPS Snob if you want. That is where i'm at with that.) but the worse part is that i would play a ton in Singleplayer, get used to how it looks and feels with high FPS ...and when i finally am confident enough in my skills to move on to multiplayer... then i get hit right into the muscle memory by the 60FPS lock which makes the transition even harder because that feels completely different to play. I already know i would not like that, so what is even the point in buying it? ...and that is if i even invest the time to get to that point. I know they did the 60FPS lock because they got some consistency issues with their physics engine at different FPS, which ends up making you drive faster or slower. ...that is a pathetic problem to have when you market the game and boast about your upgraded Engine... yet somehow it is based on decade old console stuff that is expected to run at a locked 30FPS? ...this just should not happen in 2024. They set the wrong priorities in development to make this work. The second part is ...i'm played so many Motorsport games, i'm bored with these Tracks. I'm burned out on the content in the game before even starting to play it. I watch this footage, i know this exact track all the way back from FM2. I have no desire to drive over that tarmac again... i don't care much about real life tracks to begin with, sure, have them in there for the die hard Sim players, i don't mind it being there, but i would want 10 or 20 new Tracks from every new entry in the Series. It doesn't have to be real tracks.... it just has to be GOOD tracks. Even the graphics do not look brilliant or sharp in this footage... the lighting is bland, the grass looks last gen, what am i even looking at? This looks nothing like the trailers i've seen... but i don't know if this is on lowest details or if it is even the new game or an old one so i get off my soap box now, i don't know what i'm talking about, i just know what i'm looking at in this video does not make me want to play that. I've driven that track a hundred times over 20, 15 and 10 years ago, i have no desire to play this when i look at it... i think i actually dread the idea of it, like "ugh, not this again". If the tech and engine was pure awesomeness, above aproach, i'd still buy it and give it a spin. Or even just out of pure brand loyalty. But that 60FPS lock was enough to make me question that and kick me off the wagon. ...and now it gets kicked out of competitive leages, which is the reason for the 60FPS lock in the first place... so even that isn't enough? OOOOF. Boy do i feel confirmed right now in skipping this one. Just my 2 cents. Hope they fix it up for you, hope the numbers go up... but they need to get their priorities in development straight.
60 FPS limit? Wouldn't that make especially LCD monitors have more input lag? Even more so with a 60 Hz limit! LCDs seem to often lag a lot at only 60 Hz, especially! Then, most TVs are only 60 Hz, so maybe ones with LCD TVs won't suffer as much, compared to people with LCD TVs playing with gamers who have higher-refresh-rate panels.
FM is INFURIATING in its incompetence. They had years of development time that was entirely given to the graphics and engine programmers. Meanwhile rewind is still garbage, the painting is unchanged, penalties are a complete joke, the tours are so boring and repetitive, the whole game feels like a stiff corpse stylistically, if you do manage to stay awake through the boring handful of uninspired and generated tours... there's literally nothing else for you to do if you're into SP gaming. and that's not even mentioning that TERRIBLE rpg system that stops you from being able to build cars as your own unless you replay one of the horrific single player tours atleast 3 times. its genuinely staggering how they did nothing to change most of the game, and the parts that they did change make the game worse. Fuel/Tires being completely useless in single player. None of the tours even take advantage of this new feature to teach you what you need to know for mp racing.
Yea idk, after 6 years of development and this was the best they did with that time? I don’t understand, I was expecting so much more. And weren’t they working closely with FM community members to help guide development, and this is still what was produced?
Seeing how they are negleting the community after this horrible mess they've launched, I doubt that they even play-tested this game during its developement
Same thing happened with Starfield kinda, it's getting badly beaten in player counts by both Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Skyrim has over 2x more players currently. I love to see this actually, good games are good games and they stand the test of time. People choosing old games over new games that are worse is good for us, it means publishers/devs must compete with their own previous work and exceed it. I'm not "happy" the new Forza is failing, but if it was a better game it'd be a different story.
@@jjay350 - That's the problem really. New games require much more powerful PCs so performance is inevitably worse but when you play them, you're left questioning what has actually improved. It's the law of diminishing returns... I remember when a new console came out and you'd load up a game and be completely blown away by the difference in quality compared to what you were used to seeing. These days, you're load a game up on a new console and say "yeah... I think the shadows look a bit better... maybe?" Specially in racing games, graphics are already at a stage where they're good enough. Instead of focusing on these marginal improvements that require a huge amount of work, they should be focusing on gameplay, features and performance. Put out a game that looks exactly like your previous game but has 10x the features, buttery smooth performance, improved handling, improved physics.... Instead, we get a game with tons of bugs that looks 0.1% better.
@@PeteBaldwin Yeah, very true. Feels like I am always hearing about some hyped up new graphics technology in some new video game only to play it and have a very unimpressed reaction. The diminishing returns are real, we need so much more power for things we can barely notice. Heck I'll even think some older games look better now a days, simply because they were more focused on an art style or felt more polished or something.
Game was absolute car crash material right from the off, but because of many shills pumping out content, it put this POS on a pedestal it didn't deserve.
GT7 had issues at launch as well, partly gamebreaking issues..... i bought it a year later and it was very playable and continues to be fun and engaging. FM should reach that point as well as long as the devs really wanna bring it up to that level.
I really wish I didn’t buy the new one and I love modern gaming and if I’m being really honest I’m sort of over gaming in general . Forza Motorsport and Starfield etc are just prime examples of modern gaming and company’s downfalls. I’m starting to do other activities and I’m finding I just don’t enjoy gaming as much and really not going to buy any other games going forward unless maybe a sale. I dunno anymore, gta 6 can come out and I’ll probably just wait for a sale.
I feel so bad for the devs because there is no way this was their fault. The studio has had this game cooking for 6 years in development, and im sure Microsoft and Turn 10 have made so many changes to the point where its like this. They've prided themselves on realism with race regulations and car progression but like: - how do you explain that you have to unlock levels for a car and use a separate currency to upgrade it? - I've had so many races ruined by someone just not seeing me and by there just being sudden rain when no the race didn't call for rain. Why is there no crew chief to tell you to keep your space and to prepare for rain? - theres so many weird track limits that should not exist. And Yas Mariba feels like ice in Section 3 of the full circuit if you go slightly off. I just want this game to be good
I haven't "Played" Forza Motorsport in months. Sure Im on the game every day but I am AI Leveling. I stopped playing hoppers, and just do a league race once a week but other than that Just AI lvling cars in the background and just watching youtube or movies.
Casual player here, played every FM title since FM2. Just started playing FM8 on game pass. Ai is unplayable. Online has no hoppers. There are hardly any cars and hardly any tracks. My next console will be a Playstation.
I think the community leaving isn't that big of a deal. It shows the suits that they where wrong, and if the devs can turn it around players will come back. A trillion $ company can take the hit for a couple of game studios and Phil will most likely have a word with T10 as well. The only thing that can really fail them is if they get good competition in the simcade niche. like GT7
Levelling up cars is ridiculous. A major turn off for me. Bought an xbox to play this game. Another thing is the car sounds. Played for a month nonstop when it released and now im back on gran turismo 7
Alright, I have been with Xbox for 18 years now and had pretty much all forzas. I still have 2 years of game pass paid for, but the idea of getting a PS5 and GT7 (a 500€ idea) has crossed my mind more times than I feel comfortable admitting...
i’d been a die hard forza fan from motorsport 1 and this is the first title i haven’t wanted to play. i was really hoping this would re spark my love for the series but was utterly disappointed.
Those are two very well worded messages, I'm not someone who is involved in competitive sim racing but those messages immidiantly allowed me a good understanding of the thoughts and feelings of those 2 groups, I really hope the best for them and support their decisions
The close racing in this game is fake, There’s video proof that there is a reverse slipstream type effect, when two people are battling if the car behind is close enough to the car in front, the traction of the car in front will suffer, in higher classes this means not being able to take a corner flat out that you previously could. A possible reason behind this is to make it harder for faster drivers to pull away from others, making others feel like they have more of a chance.
This is what happens when investors design a game themselves instead of leaving it to the developers. It’s designed with greed in mind, not passion and enthusiasm for racing games
T10 isn’t listening to shit. If they did 90% of the issues wouldn’t have been a thing on this game. 6 years to make and we all paid just to be beta testers. There’s a handful of good and new things for FM8 but otherwise it’s a massive step backwards. It will need at least a year of fixing to be worth the initial price.
Until they redo interior cam, car sounds, car models (these are mostly ported crom FM5), more realistic rain, toss the CaRPG gimmick and fix incorrect track details, fix the old trash photo mode, and obviously the terrible menus and AI. I doubt they will every address the mobile phone game car models... which sucks. GT7 uses future proofed 8k laser scanned models that take 270 days per car, with real dyno engine recordings. Forza just hits copy/paste from old games and the sounds are acrually worse than theyve ever been. I have them all since #1.
Aside from all the issues in the game, certain design decisions make no sense. Also, why are we limited to so few replay saves? Its my Hard Drive, dont tell me how much I can save to it. The penalty system just pisses me off and why the fuck would you group race attributes????? If I turn off or down Penalties (which I actually wanted to use) why is Tires and Fuel tied to it? So now the game becomes super easy (which I dont want, but then I cant get fuel and tire benefits just to keep from getting penalized every other turn. Now with it off, the entire back grid has it out for me. One lap I had 5 cars ram me off the road in 2 turns. You already know im the one who got penalized for that too. I dont want to use rewind unless im learning apexes, but I have to just to avoid this games shenanigans. Then if you rewind too much, it stops scoring the sector, yes, even when rewinding to before the sector marker. I tried, finished 3 tours, but I'm out until they fix the shit. Just wears on me. Its no longer fun, but work. I also noticed some of the upgrades I do will randomly turn off mid lap and turn back on. Or its the Stabilization, TC or ABS, just being very inconsistent. Another thing, why have a brake and throttle guide to learn a track but not make it opaque to the sunlight glare and volumetric lighting keeping us from seeing the guide. WTF is the point of a guide you can't see on bright corners. No problem if Im simming after learning the track, but not while im using it. Just very annoying shit.
FM2023's career mode is by far the worst in forza history, like at least FM5 had some of the unique events from fm1-4. FM2023 on the other hand doesn't even have autocross or....any unique challenges really, just a boring linear checklist of the most milktoast genres of cars ever. It doesn't help that the tour intro cutscenes sound like they were written by chatGPT in an effort to sound like FM4's clarkson monologues.
This game deserves every bit of failure and anyone who sticks up for this game are part of the problem, as a huge fan of FM and FH games it’s disgusting how much of an insult this game is. Nobody can give me the “oh but they didn’t have the time or budget” BULLSHIT. Edit: Wow I thought Car X’s livery editor was buggy sometimes but WOW this is pathetic lmao
im in the 'tried it for $1 on gamepass' club. i played it really just to get the e ray in horizon 5. i did play a couple tours in singleplayer and honestly it wasnt terrible. if the car leveling thing was its own gamemode itd be great. however its the only way to upgrade cars and everyone hates it. and every 'built from the ground up' statement is just completely laughed at when in the same trailer they showed the same forza aero and roll cage that theyve had for 1000 years. this is a triple A games studio now. they cant go around touting its new when anyone with eyes can see its not only not new, its just flat worse than even previous entries in the same series. i hope they get a fire lit under them soon and can figure something out soon. right now its on a track to failure.
Guys... wake up, just play something else, this game its doomed since day one, don't waste any more of your time playing it. And the icing on the cake is that now none of the few event organizers that his game had wants to do anything for this game anymore so yeah, even the low competitiveness scene this game had its now gone. It would take them atleast two years to fix all the issues and content this game needs to be decent.
Microsoft has been really dropping the ball with their flagship titles, like how did this game launch in this state after the launch disaster in halo infinite? Like learn from your mistakes Microsoft
The car selection in the trailer made me expect standard Forza shortcomings. What T10 released was far worse than I could have ever imagined. The few additions to the on-track portion of the game (qualifying, tire compounds, rubbering, etc) show that they’re moving in the right direction. The car points system needs to go ASAP though. Can’t even do a proper BoP process without dozens of hours of grind per tester.
I don't really understand the open world driving of the Horizon series. It just has no pull for me. I want real world tracks...even the fictional ones are cool. Guess I'll go back to PC2 until AC2 releases. I've tried to get into AC, but it requires too many mods to bring it to a current state. I only play private Multiplayer and career mode in Forza. I have 3-4 friends that like to race and it's been fun so far. We wish we could add in AI to make it more interesting, and I do wish the cars were ok to drive with the stock tunes. It's annoying to have to work on each car to keep it from fighting you all race long.
I dislike the progression system in this game. I just want all the upgrades and not suffer a hour of driving a stock mega slow car. I gave up till they change the upgrade system for the best.
it's frankly astounding that horizon 4, a game that came out on steam a YEAR after ms store, had more players last week than motorsport 8 had _at launch_
I think most people probably tried 8 on gamepass.
fh4 actually came to steam two and a half years after the ms store
@@Maccil And PC players hate buying anything that isn't on Steam. In retrospect, I should've bought it on the MS Store (even though it's terrible) just to transfer over my saves and apparently the MS version works better with peripherals.
FH4 had more than 12 times as many players as Motorsport (at least a couple days ago)
the games have different communities this is a bad faith comparison -_-
You know you fucked up if you somehow manage to piss off not only your community at large but even someone as good hearted and positive as hoki
Turn 10 should've already cancelled FM8 in 2022.
exactly. :)
@@purwantiallan5089 Microsoft should've cancelled Turn 10 by now.
Why are they still employed?
Where is that aggressive american company energy when you need it.
That whole studio just needs to be sacked immediately.
Refund the people that paid for this insult they call a product, and start with a studio that actually gives a damn, because Turn10 clearly doesn't care anymore.
Forza Motorsport is fascinating in just how hard they missed the mark. They really couldve just done a remake of fm4 and everyone would have loved it. The community isnt asking the world from you Turn 10…
If you could emulate fm4 WITH ONLINE it would have more players currently.
@@N-Collectivethats probably true
With how players love to critique Forza, I think they would find ways to hate a FM4 remake
@@N-Collective Hell, re-listing the last two Motorsports would probably draw in more players than Motorsport 2023 right now.
@anti-tryhard I went back and played FM4 on my 360 recently. It’s not just nostalgia, I found it way more entertaining than modern forza games. I think the only thing they could fuck up is the car list, since it’d probably be mostly modern cars.
Think about it this way: TORA put up with the shit house game that was Forza Motorsport 7 for 6 years but 3 months of Forza Motorsport is too much to handle. Truly a masterclass in creating a game that kills a community
I mean, it builds up right? TORA was probably already done putting up with FM7’s shit, FM8’s sorry state might’ve just been the straw that broke the camels back
It's sorta frustrating, because I bought a series x with motorsport being the main reason.
Luckily I didn't buy the game! 😅
I'm thinking Forza Motorsport is the final version of the Forza franchise. There's no way they can justify being given the resources for developing another game after the shit show of this most recent release.
Been saying this to my friends, I have played every Forza since it's Inception, the franchise is something close to my heart but I don't understand how you can royally fuck up so bad with a new release like Turn 10 has. They've had SIX years to develop this new game, and all they had to do was improve on the base they already had. Nobody asked for a new levelling system, but we all asked for better AI, a better online experience, improvements to the livery editor as well as to car customisation in general. Players wanted to see old favourites to return, where is Blue Mountains or Fujimi Kaido? I don't get it. Six years of development time in game development is such an incredibly long time to come to the party with your dick out swinging whilst showing your competition why you are the top dog, but they completely missed the mark?
I understand there will be players here who are happy to see some sort of change, but the car roaster is lacklustre, the track roaster lacklustre, the newer elements like customising your driver literally have no purpose. Why are the improvements added to FH5 not present in the new Motorsport game? Where is the granular synthesis audio engine that allows players to hear how the car audio changes with different upgrades? Where are the improvements that where made to photo mode? No drone mode implementation for spectators or spectators at all?
They have this code sitting on servers, it's not going to take much to implement it back into the engine? (I'm a software engineer by trade).
The whole exercise seems like it was lead as more of a PR stunt than actually creating a product they care about. Dan should feel shame, but Chris ought to resign his gamer card and especially his management card. What a pitiful experience Forza Motorsport has been.
This.
Customizing the driver probably made them very stunning and brave. Why? So they can add the "other" gender.
Look everyone, as much as you hate the other side you must admit this woke liberal thing is a large problem. Forza didn't hire experienced and passionate people. They hired woke. This what you get!!!
💯
You had me at calling out Dan/Chris. Dan’s been a liar for a while (I’ve been saying ‘FU, Dan’ since FM3, I think), and I found out about Chris in the FM8 hype material. Was immediately suspicious, because he seemed like Dan 2. I was right. They’re two sides of the same lying coin. Meet the new Chris, same as the old Dan.
This! I remember going through the FM suggestion forums and how you said it was what most people (myself included) asked for. Just a better Forza Motorsport. That was it. I have no idea how this game was given the green light because it is almost the complete opposite of what was asked for. The thing that gets the most is that it's literally their forum. Not some random reddit or Facebook section. And they still ignored it. That's really bad.
This is what happens when you take a 6 year vacation
And hire people that are legit completely out of touch with the culture and community they are making the game for.
@@N-Collective "When you go woke, you go broke" - some hated person.
@@illxet LMAO, I need to use that one
@@illxetI wouldn’t even say they went “woke” - they just got lazy and only see FM as a money-maker instead of a passion project. As many problems that GT7 had at launch/still has from what I’ve seen, the game is beautiful and actually feels like it was made with love and attention to detail.
@@illxetnot sure they did anything woke, just seems like standard greed to me: Do as little as possible to make as much as possible, hopefully sailing along on brand name and/or predatory business practices
It's simple. Forza devs over-promised and under-delivered. To me, the worst thing about this game is the cars. Bug, glitches and broken AI can be fixed, but we're stuck looking at outdated car models from previous Forza titles. Not a single vehicle in the whole game says "built from the ground up".
Some of the cars models have been the same since the first Motorsport game. THAT is BAD
At least they are Xbox 360 era models, which look OK polygon-wise. Gran Turismo 5 & 6's standard cars were PS2/PSP models with better textures. Still not good to use models from 4 or more motorsport games ago.
@@Dartingleopard Gran Turismo started recreating its models with GT sport and I didn’t find a single poorly made or outdated model in GT7 (1000+ hours played, 50+ liveries made). Polyphony just executed what T10 only promised.
@vvs6433 you must not be looking at the same things as other people lmao those ps2 cars look hella out of place
@@Ramonatho Can you give me at least one example?
I think a lot of people are losing patience for this "Launch 20% of a barely functioning game and fix and add later" that a lot of modern live service style games are taking. I know I'll be looking at a lot of upcoming Forza products with a lot more scrutiny after this disappointment. I'm not getting refunded, and I paid for a working and feature full game when it came out, and I've been essentially cheated out of that. Hopefully some other upcoming "Simcade" racers can fill that niche.
I uninstalled the game about a week after it came out, being a long time forza player I was very disappointed. I won't be giving t10 or motorsport another opportunity and I won't be supporting companies that continue to release unfinished games. if that means I have to stop gaming, at this point I'm perfectly fine with that lol. the detachment from consumers is too big nowadays and no one cares enough to use the power they have to do anything about it
My PC was the best investment I’ve ever made for racing. I get that it’s a different market though. If you can try iRacing, or assetto corsa, I guarantee you won’t want your money back at least.
Hopefully Gran Turismo eventually comes to PC. Forza Motorsport was botched at launch, it has some fun stuff but the game just didn't deliver at all.
@@Dartingleopardit might the creator of gran turismo even said he is even considering a pc release of GT7 pc
i only installed it to get the new E Ray on FH5 lol
I’ve been playing Forza since 2005, on the original Xbox. I was 4 years old at the time. I have literally grown up with this franchise, and to see its downfall is quite depressing. After Forza Motorsport 4, we all thought Turn 10 could only go up. Sadly, the exact opposite has been happening over the last 13 years.
I didn’t play forza since 2005 as I was born that year however I do own it. Here’s how I feel about the current Forza title. My ps5 is turned on and now I’m heading on GT7 as a courtesy to forza!
@@worldwar1424 As someone who played all forza and all gt titles GT7 is as depressing as FM8. The "career" is a joke and it took more than a year to get any decent improvements.
GT just like forza should just have cloned the fourth instalment (gt4 and fm4)
@@Hailtothebreak as someone who also owns both entireties of both I believe the GT7 campaign is alright. I personally enjoyed it with the exception of how they’ve handled the awarded cars. But I myself don’t mind it at all. Fm8’s career I’d say shouldn’t be compared to GT7’s. Seems like an after thought.
@@worldwar1424"alright" is a far cry from where both series used to be.
@@goobingtons fr.
Racing Haven and TORA have some of the most dedicated Forza players. If your most loyal customers are fed up with your services, then there's something terribly wrong with you.
It's sort of like how the furries are a good measure of the health of a social media platform. If the furries bail, then the platform is likely to go under or become a hellhole soon.
Good video, great points and well presented. Turn10 really REALLY dropped the ball with this. I fear this will permanently effect the Forza franchise badly, but I sincerely hope Turn10 pulls a No Man’s Sky and makes this game what it should’ve been.
They've genuinely dropped the ball with absolutely every game they've made since 4 tho. How did anyone expect them to actually deliver when they as a studio have been proving for OVER A DECADE now that they can't deliver. I really feel like people just don't pay attention to the track record for some of these devs teams and just see the newest game in the franchise they liked when they were teenagers and buy it anyways. Shit's wild tbh.
@@trautsj Given the 6 year dev time I decided I wasn't going to buy it unless it was a home run. Maybe even if it was as decent as FM7.
Hello Games didn't have Microsoft to deal with after NMS finished with Sony. There's no future, sustained improvement for this game, not until Microsoft leaves. Microsoft will probably just fire some devs, reshuffle the others to Horizon or other projects, and leave Motorsport dead.
@@SALEENS7GTR5 They reshuffled the 343 team after Infinite, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's a bad thing. It depends on who they replace, and who they replace them with.
They didn't kill Halo though, and I doubt they'll kill Forza.
LOL Good luck
The game is working as intended. While there are improvements to be made, feedback has made it clear that most players like the game and it's system as is.
- Turn 10, 2024.
*a small minority of players who haven’t even played Motorsport 1-6.
What a time to be alive ... /s
So they have chosen failure.
Its clear as day that FM doesn’t need any improvements or fixes, its best sports game of 2023 so why would you fix game that is already best in its category? I wonder what it could be if the money and effort went into development and not into game awards judges pockets.
"It just works" - Todd Howard
Running theme is that devs just want more money for less effort.
Thank you for bringing this to a wider audience. As a staff member at RH and a long-standing community member, it's genuinely crushing to watch what has happened over the past couple of months since FM released. I just hope T10 realises they're putting us in an unsaveable situation here, and that we as a community can only last so long if there's nothing to keep us together anymore
to be honest sticking to FM7 would probably be your best bet but even that isnt a perfect game, sure FM7 has its own fair share of bugs but none are nearly as bad as FM8
Are you a furry
Id just say diversify and move to other platforms at this point. Keep FM7 and even add Project Cars 2 for console racers.
Nah hes not a furry tho. :D @@dragonbutt
🥀
It's absolutely ridiculous that this game won a Game Award for accessibility when it doesn't even have the option to use a proper crew chief. It's the most basic accessibility feature you could ever ask for in a racing game.
Even Daytona USA 1/2 have a more competent and a better crew chief that sounds he really give a fuck about you. Those games are over 25 years old and was originally arcade releases back in the 90's. Fucking embarrassing.
I dont think you know what accessibility means
I think they mean an accessibility for casual player or something? 😅
@@zacharywolf2341How? Adding a crew chief would basically be adding closed captioning to a lot of your telemetry so in that way it helps people with different visual abilities.
I’d settle for a virtual mirror and proper proximity detection. I can’t race blindfolded. Never knew that was a requisite for “motorsport.”
7:32 Ah yes, can't wait for a game, that was 6 years in the making not even from scratch, take "a couple of years" to finally be able to deliver the bare minimum of quality, just so Turn10 can get some stupid "labour of love" award for slowly dripfeeding cut content back to FOMO weekly/monthly challenges.
FM is irredeemable, there is literally no point in trying to salvage it.
If any other franchise would've released a new entry this broken, empty, unoptimized, a straight downgrade from its predecessors, after THIS FUCKING LONG, this game wouldn't even survive at all.
But because the racing genre is all but dead now, Turn10 got a GOTY award.
This is like if CP2077 got a GOTY award in 2020.
I'd like to refer you to Fifa and Madden
@@JZStudiosonlineAgreed, not that it excuses any of them, but those two (and arguably CoD) show how a game series can just sorta hobble along because enough people throw money at it to make them not care about actually making a good game.
so gt7 at launch?
@@spiderenigma2803 GT7 at launch is still far superior to this rubbish. It's also almost 2 years old now.
And think about this gt7 took almost 2 years less to hit the market campared to fm, and pd is known to take their time with each release
As a Forza loyalist, this is honestly heartbreaking to hear. I honestly like this game, and enjoy playing it, but it’s hard not to notice how hard we’ve fallen.
Be honest tho
@@xboxbenny😂👍🏽
NASCAR 21 IGNITION has entered the chat.
@@xboxbenny I was there when Horizon 2 on 360 came out. I know how bad the franchise can REALLY be.
@heroicsultan7311 I just only this year played the Xbox One version. That game was PG FH2 on a budget. Seriously. Shouldnt have even released it on 360 but Im happy because I didnt have a One at the time.
Competitive racing organisations will also spend a great deal of time testing cars (and tunes), tracks, and systems in place to ensure their event goes smoothly so you know it's a big deal when they decide they can't even put SOMETHING together in the game 😬
It's a lot of different problems, all coming down onto a single point. The CarXP system adds a lot more time and effort onto an already time consuming process of building and balancing cars for league events. Then, once the events are organised and the races are run, the multitude of issues in multiplayer become a big problem. I race in leagues myself, and every race we do one of the biggest problems we get is some people not being able to see other drivers. This can cause absolute chaos as you get people that are effectively on autopilot and will take out other drivers without even realising.
Between that, cars randomly throwing up smokescreens, server instability, fundamental lobby options either missing or not functioning as they should, amongst other things, make it a very stressful and needlessly complicated experience for admins and competitors alike. It's hard enough to run leagues without the game doing everything in it's power to get in the way of having a good fair race and having fun.
I think what frustrates me most is that motorsport just didn’t feel much more focused or improved over the last few horizon games. Really thought that scoping down to track racing would allow the games highlights to shine, but in reality progression feels hollow from the start, and I find unless I’m excited to get on and try something I don’t want to play at all. Which is sadly how I felt about the last 3 horizon games.
I'm an older gamer (turning 40 this year) who did most of my motorsports stuff on track (SCCA, NASA, lots of drift events). I've always been into the simcade/sim racing casually but I will say this version of Forza was the first one to make me uninstall a title. Even with the early frustrations of AC, I still kept it around and saw it get better. FM feels like it's almost irredeemable and I would feel bad for anyone using this variant of FM as their introduction into simcade/sim racing.
I just looked it up and was curious if AC released in early access which it did in 2013. So with that it was given time to improve.
The problem with these AAA (or so called AAA games) is they keep putting out games that are clearly early access without telling us they are early access....games that come to mind are BF 2042, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, RedFall. Games that were pushed out but really not completed.
It is why they get tons of updates to finish or fix shit.
Yeah it's the only Forza game I have given up on.
You are still young (40 is the new 30''s lol), Im 58 and counting. Played it from the V1 on Xboxes, with wheel/pedals but they have miserably failed to make it a semi-sim playable with wheel/pedals for the casual simmer i am. Thanks to Steam for refunding my money, Turn 10 missed all the corners and crashed and burned FM they should be very ashamed and resign from their jobs. FM oh how I wanted it to reach its potential but sadly Turn 10 did not care for it. RIP FM ;(
The terrible customization system kneecapped this game right out of the gate. Then once the bugs and lacking single player revealed themselves it was basically a death sentence. They can likely still save it but I'm not confident they actually will.
I 100% understand why someone like SuperGt avoids this game most, if not all the time, for his uploads...
Competitively, there is nothing to hold it under it's crumpling weight of expectations and false promises.
I was watching one of his older videos recently where he says that he'd be "playing the hell out of Forza Motorsport" when it comes out. Safe to say that his actions speak to how badly this game fell flat
6:30 Hot Wheels Unleashed out of all things got around this by letting the player manually pick a projection perspective for decals, no more worrying about zones and weird UVs. I can't see why they couldn't do something similar.
Carx does the same and it's far from ideal. Rather they just make good uv maps.
I think the biggest thing that I disagree with you about, is the statement that this is such a talented Studio.
Clearly that's no longer the case. Whatever Talent they may have once had has all gone. It seems that everyone left is either temporary devs or has spent so much time failing up they no longer know what to do.
This is not the product of a talented studio. This is the product of a studio that is floundering because they know that all their talent has gone and we can only hope that they realize they're in over their head and they bring in people that can fix this.
This is the culmination systemic and repeated failure and downgrades over the past two console Generations. Rather than maintain games or build on what they had with Forza Motorsport 4 they have been slowly eating away at it and losing valuable employees until this is the result.
I love your one year timeline, unfortunately it seems that this may be the last Motorsport title we see. This may be the nail in the coffin for turn 10 Studios
I don’t think I would come back unless they changed the car upgrade system back to just paying for upgrades and/or optimize the game better. but yeah the current system actively dissuades players from buying new cars, and my favorite part is experimenting with different cars. can’t do that now without sitting through the AI doing 50 laps around Le Mans.
Yup, that's what ruined it for me as well. The #1 thing I liked about Forza was being able to buy a car and instantly build and tune my ideal version of it, and experimenting with different directions to take cars in. Now it's just way too time consuming to get to that point.
Yea, I played it for about 2 days after it released. Got to thinking about how much time it was going to take me to just level up and customize the few cars I knew I wanted, let alone any that might catch my eye, and just walked away. The other stuff probably would have made me drop it sooner or later, but the carpg system made me punt it quick.
You were spot on on everything you said and so much more could have been said. I can't understand the headlines they gave us in 2022 "built from the ground up" and "the most technically advanced racing game ever made" for the game to be released in this state after 6 years in the making. Something really wrong is/was going on with T10. Also, the communication that T10 just published falls very short on the major issues being addressed and on the mea culpa they should have done, for deceiving us and releasing the game in this state, but also for the poor communication on their part thus far.
You have to make videos like this if you want better games, the real world isn’t always positive so you should make more videos like this
The best summary we could've asked for, and a necessary video. Here's hoping it's another step to making things happen internally
Agreed.
Only thing on my wish list you missed is a Weather Radar. If we're going to have a dynamic weather system you're essentially flying blind when making any tire decisions in changing conditions
no that will never happen other race games that have weather, don't have a radar.
@@gamersplaygroundliquidm3th526GT7?
@@gamersplaygroundliquidm3th526 *looks at GT7 with it's weather radar
You sure about that?
@@gamersplaygroundliquidm3th526assetto corsa competizione does have one too...
@@jjay350 Yeah sorry don't play anything that would be on any PlayStation unless it hits PC so yeah wouldn't/t know, nor care about GT7
Similar thing happened with the recent Battlefield game. The lack of rent a server killed a lot of BF communities that had to keep playing older titles.
I left after 2weeks when the game came out. Came back when i heard they “fixed” the carpg system. Turns out it was just an illusion of a fix you still needed to level up to 50 to upgrade things.
Thinking about uninstalling it again.
There are some relatively smaller changes that would make me want to play it a lot more as a causal in single player but it’s going to need some major changes to reach the level the game deserves to be at
What's really amazing to me is how excessively fantastic Forza Horizon 5 was, and how bad this is.
It is a crazy contrast.
I paid for early access and uninstalled it after the second week. I'm really hoping that they'll prove us all wrong in revamping the game. But I'm not hopeful at all.
Im exlusively a GT player but have a vested interest for all racing games to succeed. I just love gaming and driving, and competition in this niche industry keeps them all innovating, learning from other franchises and competing against each other to make better games. Thats good for us as consumers because we in theory get better racing games as a result, so I hope T10 can fix forza motorsport and make it what it could be.
I don't mean to sound harsh, because he's a nice guy, but the fault ultimately rests with Phil Spencer. He's increased the amount of content and studios but is not wielding the stick of authority sufficiently, to ensure that first party games are good as, if not better than the opposition. When you're left considering a PS5 so that you can have a decent driving experience. Not good. What's the point of having billions of dollar at you're disposal, if you're not going to use it to make the best games.
This whole game definitely needs to be remodeled from the ground up.
I was eagerly awaiting the new Forza, as FM7 was still my go-to racing game. When this came out, I checked the reviews and bought Assetto Corsa.
I will say there was some good that came out of this for me:
I was motivated to buy other racing games and save myself $70. It's hilarious to me that the wacky Forza Horizon 5 has a stronger competitive scene than what is supposed to be the competitive racing game.
hot take, but if GTA online didn't have hackers, or cheaters. it would be the superior racing game. its not a sim its not even simcade, its arcade but it is damn well one of my personal favorite driving games besides the grid series. i still log into gtao every now and then just to buy a car and cruise with it. its a shame its over run by hackers and rockstar wont do anything about it.
Truth
“Build from the ground up”
I think a lot of these bugs could have been fixed. Post launch and I'm just worried that this game series is gonna die.
They should combine Horizontal and Motorsport. 1 game with more time to cook with both an open world aspect and a track focused aspect. Bring all the fans of both series into a single game.
What did they do for 6 years? I'm genuinely confused about how the game could launch in the state it did with 6 years of development and the backing of one of the biggest tech companies in the world. I also have no clue who this game was made for, I play mainly single-player in Forza, but there is nothing to do outside of the few FOMO races they add every month to the game. There is no career, no alternative game modes like a history of Motorsport or party games. The only thing a solo player has to do after beating the limited selection of "cups" is rivals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy rivals, but thanks to the CARPG system, I can't build cars like I could in literally every other Forza game. I'm forced to level up cars that may not even be worth the time just to set a rivals time. Then theres the AI, even if we had a proper career mode like fans have asked for since Forza 3, the AI is so bad it would ruin the fun of a career mode. On the multiplayer side of things, I've actually had some fun when I get a good lobby, but most the time it's a buggy mess, with a broken penalty system and a plague of rammers. There's no private lobbies, there's no airfield or test track, there's no alternative game modes. There's almost no reason to play multiplayer either, no rewards, no proper ranking system, no reason to play other than it is actually fun if you can find a good lobby. There's no sense of community in this game like there has been in the horizon series or FM4. My friends I've played Forza with for over a decade all stopped playing within 2 weeks after launch. I was in a highly skilled club in FM4 that had all kinds of top downloaded tunes and frequently set elite track times, none of those guys play anymore. No clubs, no auction house, no tune or livery sharing options. I desperately want this game to be good, I'm predominantly a controller player, I occasionally play more harcore Sims, but prefer to play Forza on a controller (fight me lol) and Forza is the best feeling racing game to play on controller. I love how FM2023 plays, but that's the only thing I like about it. I'm playing GT7 10x more than FM2023 even though I much prefer the driving on FM2023, but unlike Forza GT7, it gives me a reason to play. I want the best for Forza, but I'm extremely doubtful, I don't think I'm willing to wait 2-3 years for this game to he what it should have been at launch, and frankly, I'm tired of supporting this "games as a service" model that allows developers to double charge me for content on drip feed.
That ended up being way longer than I wanted it to be. My bad, I'm a Forza fan boy who just wants Forza to be good again. If you read all that you're a real one.😂
I've seen many claims they actually only started work on this 4 or so years ago, but I do suspect they had major issues in development that caused big delays or redesigns. The game feels like something that got rushed out the door, there are xml config files that reference a lot of missing features as well.
I bought the premium version on launch day, but instantly jumped back to GT7 and never played the game again.
The game has so much potential, but I just want the car progression system deleted entirely. Nobody asked for it, and I don't even know why some players like it.
I don’t think those people ever played Forza at all tbh
It's disappointing how Microsoft allowedTurn-10 to ignore the progress Polyphony have made in the simcade genre.
Good video summarizing the issues. In my experience T10 does not listen/act on what the community has been asking for, until it is too little too late. All the points in your road map were mentioned during this games development & testing phases. They have been suggested & pleaded for actual decades. It is sad to see the loyalty of the competitive communities be rewarded with a half done title after 6+ years of waiting. They shouldnt have to wait Another 2 years for the game to be polished as a AAA should be. They deserve better than that.
The Sr. management at Turn10 must be fired...this game is a HUGE disaster and loaded with bad decision, and bugs. 6 years to build this huge mess "from the ground up"...
I'm just left really confused at how this has all happened.
I don't want to claim Forza has an unlimited budget, but they are a first party title with worldwide brand recognition. Every car guy or racing guy in the gaming industry, aspires to work on this game, and it's who Forza should have no problems hiring. Even under tight deadlines or budget constraints, the game should be of such quality due to the staff's love of racing, that it redefines the racing game landscape every few years.
The product they put out this year, is a hodgepodge of bad design decisions shamelessly lifted from other games that in a lot of instances didn't make any sense + were universally hated before people even got to try them, and technical issues completely uncommon with first party titles. The product is so half-baked that it's giving the conspiracy theorists ammo regarding DEI initiatives.
I can only compare it to Halo Infinite where none of the original crew was left to work on it, no one knew where it was going, temps were heavily used on short term contracts, and they had a bunch of people that straight up hated Halo, or didn't care about Halo.
I've been wanting to see a timeline of game studio employees vs the game releases and receptions. I don't know what the fuck happened to all the old industry vets who had the passion for what they were making, but it really feels like that's largely dead and gone and replaced with less skilled people who are doing a job, not a passion.
Like, Digital Foundry's comparison between FM8 and GT7, FM has the same track and trackside errors like typos in the welcome track signs as prior titles. They don't care. GT7 also has much more accurate trackside details, tree lines, etc. Even for how crap the "campaign" is, you can tell they at least have a passion for it.
@@JZStudiosonline Unfortunately, that's where the conspiracy theories come in regarding DEI, and other, much more extremist ideas about upper management. It's very depressing and one of the main reasons I spend so much time on emulators. So long as I can upscale it and my wheel generally works, nobody can rip Forza 2 away from me.
@@AustinOgonoski Well, it's not a theory that none of the original crew is still there. But when they do office tours and a large number of people are in their 20s and 30s, they aren't old vets and younger people tend to think they're better than the guys that literally created the tools they're using. There's too many true stories about original creators being pushed out.
I guess I need to work on getting the Forza games running. Never really tried 2.
@@JZStudiosonline The gaming industry isn't the most attractive industy for a game developer/software engineer/programmer etc. They all probably moved on to better positions, and the new generation that has been brough it just isn't as talanted/passionate and or are not allowed to show their skill and passion due to other factors in the company. I don't know, It really doesn't matter how much skill and passion you have if you end up just being a cog in the machine, all passion dies when the coorporation becomes large enough and/or is mismanaged. I would also say many things are alot more comlicated these days, which ultimately makes it harder to produce good games.
On a side note, i'm pretty convinced there is some type of agenda going on in media/gaming and the entertainment industry as a whole these days. I have a theory why this is the case, but I won't share it here. People need to figure it out on their own.
@@Skumtomten1 The issue is everyone I know and have seen in those kind of roles, it's universally pretty shit. The game guys could maybe transfer to VFX studios, which also sucks. I don't know what else they could really do in the same field, unless they change careers entirely.
Same with software engineers and programmers, the entire industry is in shambles right now and they're all having pretty massive layoffs.
People always argue that games are harder to make now, and I vehemently argue that's complete horseshit. The tools and resources have never been so readily available and easily accessible. Solo devs are teaching themselves how to make games off of YT videos, I can't buy that a major studio using the worlds most popular engine with near unlimited resources can't make a fun, decent game. The logic just doesn't track.
You and Rory have made this kind of post and everyone agrees with yall! I just hope T10 does not ignore these early yet critical pleas
Great vid. As a painter, this has been the worst forza game I've ever had to paint in!
Thanks for the sympathetic words, Hoki. This is Darkzer from TORA.
Where is drift and drag and all the base game features we used to get.
Always Online destroyed Gran Turismo and Always Online kill Forza.
Good future spending money on everything else than always online games...
"most active racing games - number 2, rocket league"
As a pc driver with wheel, I could look past some of the driving aspects of this game, as the core bit is fun
However, the huge disadvantage of playing in car for multiplayer races turned that pc game pass into a 30 day test and forget, especially as bug riddled as this is
I truly hope they sort it out for the xbox group, as they really have so few choices on that platform
I was in the same boat. Played it on Game Pass and stopped. It had some cool aspects but overall it feels like a early access game. I expected a fully fleshed out completed game.
Once again the SP portion is terrible. I did like the MP early on but just did not feel like playing the game over other titles like AC or AMS2 ...especially with AMS2 single player AI ! ! !
It's a massive kick in the teeth considering they wanted to sit there and say it was built from the ground up (where was it ever said just the tyre physics were rebuilt? please?) only for us to get a somehow more broken FM7 with even stranger and simpler glitches at launch (career upgrade screen and save for an example) and this product took them SIX. FUCKING. YEARS.
FM4 had a smaller turnaround and I think I speak for everyone when I say that game is objectively better. More community based, more career options and routes that somehow drove you to do more even without a story, and certainly a drag race or two.
Nothing upsets and disappoints me more than this release and I got the game pass for it. I can't imagine the strife people who paid full price or even ultimate edition are feeling right now.
I think that, at minimum, if they pump out more incremental fixes/updates like every 2 weeks, it will inspire a little more confidence in me that they are hard at work. Don't get me wrong, I really do think that they are trying to work on things and fix their game, but only giving monthly updates with the game in its current state is mind boggling. Even if their mid-month fix/update only addresses 1 or 2 things, at least it is showing the community that they are continually working to improve their system.
Yeah, weekly/biweekly small updates and monthly big updates would be a major improvement
Microsoft is just lying about all their games at this point.
How do you screw up Halo & Forza?
This game has an 84 on metacritic, and iirc, it was slightly higher at launch. I was stoked since the day the announced it, as a big FM7, FH4, and FH5 fan.
When reviews came out, they mostly ranged from solid to glowing, i was so happy it was all working out!
Fast forward a few hours; I have the game installed, and I'm ready to go, only to slowly realize that every time the game tries to save my career progress, it crashes every time. For a month.
Although thats fixed now, it absolutely set the tone for the FM 23 experience: competent (if slightly disappointing) bones, constantly plauged by glitches, weird gameplay choices, and zero community involvement.
At this point I'm basically waiting long term to see if the game improves... should've probably just subbed to gamepass for a month.
Many people suspect Metacritic reviews might have been botted. There are a lot of reviews with straight 10's, reading like incomprehensible AI generated non-sense from accounts with 1 review each and usernames made of two randomised words
@@myfrom I'm taking critic reviews, not fan ones!
@@jasonandrews7355 ah 💀 well
I wonder why more devs do not do early access. Like let a percentage of players play the game as it is developed to get feedback on what works and what should be changed or adjusted. Things like the car upgrade system would have been scrapped had we got to experience it in a early access period.
I think a lot of those metacritic reviews were planted. I saw a lot of copy and paste 10/10 user reviews from usernames that are very similar.
I'm not surprised, and I still don't understand why it won the award. Worst of all, DustinEden got harassed by Xbox fanboys for criticizing Forza Motorsport. Sigh...
Looking at the situation with Forza Motorsport, I'm worried about Forza Horizon 6. If you want to know the problems with racing games, watch Raycevick's I Love Racing Games, They Suck! It's a great video.
The other issue about lack of competitve scene, si lots of time that is what drives social marketing. Look at the all the youtubers GT Sport produced based top split and guide videos. All the free marketing they got from that. People are hungry to know who the top guys are, who the most dirty driver is, and how to improve to be like those guys. It's the same with every competitive game out there from Fortnite to Call of Duty. A thriving competitive scene that brings the top drivers in the game together so everyone starts to know who they are is appealing. Look what LFM has done for ACC. There were leagues and youtubers, but it's popularity has grown significantly with a working ranking system.
And really, there is still enough players to start to produce that, but it would require a total redo on how they do matchmaking. I joined an event 5 time in 2 minutes, 5 different lobbies, 4 of them brand new at S4999. The current system is effectively completely random and only partially works if they is a massive online playerbase. But there is likely still enough players an event to create 10-12 splits. That's enough to get the ball rolling. But right now, there is no top split.
I’ve been saying to all my friends for years that the devs themselves are NOT car people. I think turn 10 makes decisions based on what they think car people will like while also trying to maximize play time. I think they prioritize play time to maximize profits but neglect to add features or even cars that the community wants. They listen to the corporate bosses more than the actual community that plays the game. Super frustrating.
Really strong intro to this video, and well said. Enjoy the game if you are. But we need more respectful and intelligent conversation about the short comings of FM. Hopefully this helps T10 fix the issues and right the ship.
Can we all finally acknowledge that Microsoft has no idea how to handle an IP?
Microsoft has released multiple flops this generation and show no signs of slowing down.
I have decided against buying Froza Motorsport the moment i heard it has a 60FPS lock for multiplayer on PC.
That is just such an absurd thing to have... it tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with it.
I played Motorsport on and off ever since FM2 on the 360. ...very casually. But with every new entry i played less of it... because i had to start over from scratch with my garage and i can only drive the Honda CRX or Civic for so long every game before i just don't bother anymore to get to the good stuff (Horizon throws cars at you left and right... it is not so bad to start over if that is the deal, but with FM i would have liked to have a persistent garage each time the next entry is released. The HOW doesn't really matter.) I never really delved much into multiplayer.
My problem with the 60FPS lock is not only that i find it visually unappealing for a racing game to have such low framerate (i play on a 144Hz G-Sync screen for almost 10 years now. I do not WANT to go back to locked 60. Call me a FPS Snob if you want. That is where i'm at with that.) but the worse part is that i would play a ton in Singleplayer, get used to how it looks and feels with high FPS ...and when i finally am confident enough in my skills to move on to multiplayer... then i get hit right into the muscle memory by the 60FPS lock which makes the transition even harder because that feels completely different to play.
I already know i would not like that, so what is even the point in buying it? ...and that is if i even invest the time to get to that point.
I know they did the 60FPS lock because they got some consistency issues with their physics engine at different FPS, which ends up making you drive faster or slower. ...that is a pathetic problem to have when you market the game and boast about your upgraded Engine... yet somehow it is based on decade old console stuff that is expected to run at a locked 30FPS? ...this just should not happen in 2024. They set the wrong priorities in development to make this work.
The second part is ...i'm played so many Motorsport games, i'm bored with these Tracks. I'm burned out on the content in the game before even starting to play it.
I watch this footage, i know this exact track all the way back from FM2. I have no desire to drive over that tarmac again... i don't care much about real life tracks to begin with, sure, have them in there for the die hard Sim players, i don't mind it being there, but i would want 10 or 20 new Tracks from every new entry in the Series. It doesn't have to be real tracks.... it just has to be GOOD tracks.
Even the graphics do not look brilliant or sharp in this footage... the lighting is bland, the grass looks last gen, what am i even looking at? This looks nothing like the trailers i've seen... but i don't know if this is on lowest details or if it is even the new game or an old one so i get off my soap box now, i don't know what i'm talking about, i just know what i'm looking at in this video does not make me want to play that.
I've driven that track a hundred times over 20, 15 and 10 years ago, i have no desire to play this when i look at it... i think i actually dread the idea of it, like "ugh, not this again".
If the tech and engine was pure awesomeness, above aproach, i'd still buy it and give it a spin. Or even just out of pure brand loyalty.
But that 60FPS lock was enough to make me question that and kick me off the wagon. ...and now it gets kicked out of competitive leages, which is the reason for the 60FPS lock in the first place... so even that isn't enough? OOOOF. Boy do i feel confirmed right now in skipping this one.
Just my 2 cents. Hope they fix it up for you, hope the numbers go up... but they need to get their priorities in development straight.
Idk but for me multiplayer is at 72 fps.
60 FPS limit? Wouldn't that make especially LCD monitors have more input lag? Even more so with a 60 Hz limit! LCDs seem to often lag a lot at only 60 Hz, especially! Then, most TVs are only 60 Hz, so maybe ones with LCD TVs won't suffer as much, compared to people with LCD TVs playing with gamers who have higher-refresh-rate panels.
FM is INFURIATING in its incompetence. They had years of development time that was entirely given to the graphics and engine programmers. Meanwhile rewind is still garbage, the painting is unchanged, penalties are a complete joke, the tours are so boring and repetitive, the whole game feels like a stiff corpse stylistically, if you do manage to stay awake through the boring handful of uninspired and generated tours... there's literally nothing else for you to do if you're into SP gaming. and that's not even mentioning that TERRIBLE rpg system that stops you from being able to build cars as your own unless you replay one of the horrific single player tours atleast 3 times. its genuinely staggering how they did nothing to change most of the game, and the parts that they did change make the game worse.
Fuel/Tires being completely useless in single player. None of the tours even take advantage of this new feature to teach you what you need to know for mp racing.
Yea idk, after 6 years of development and this was the best they did with that time? I don’t understand, I was expecting so much more. And weren’t they working closely with FM community members to help guide development, and this is still what was produced?
Seeing how they are negleting the community after this horrible mess they've launched, I doubt that they even play-tested this game during its developement
That UV mapping has been bugging me a lot lately, even in Horizon (unsurprisingly, I know)
I just want to know who and why they do it this way.
Same thing happened with Starfield kinda, it's getting badly beaten in player counts by both Fallout 4 and Skyrim. Skyrim has over 2x more players currently.
I love to see this actually, good games are good games and they stand the test of time. People choosing old games over new games that are worse is good for us, it means publishers/devs must compete with their own previous work and exceed it.
I'm not "happy" the new Forza is failing, but if it was a better game it'd be a different story.
We have definitely hit the point where the latest games aren't improving anymore.
@@jjay350 - That's the problem really. New games require much more powerful PCs so performance is inevitably worse but when you play them, you're left questioning what has actually improved. It's the law of diminishing returns... I remember when a new console came out and you'd load up a game and be completely blown away by the difference in quality compared to what you were used to seeing. These days, you're load a game up on a new console and say "yeah... I think the shadows look a bit better... maybe?"
Specially in racing games, graphics are already at a stage where they're good enough. Instead of focusing on these marginal improvements that require a huge amount of work, they should be focusing on gameplay, features and performance. Put out a game that looks exactly like your previous game but has 10x the features, buttery smooth performance, improved handling, improved physics.... Instead, we get a game with tons of bugs that looks 0.1% better.
@@PeteBaldwin Yeah, very true. Feels like I am always hearing about some hyped up new graphics technology in some new video game only to play it and have a very unimpressed reaction. The diminishing returns are real, we need so much more power for things we can barely notice. Heck I'll even think some older games look better now a days, simply because they were more focused on an art style or felt more polished or something.
Game was absolute car crash material right from the off, but because of many shills pumping out content, it put this POS on a pedestal it didn't deserve.
GT7 had issues at launch as well, partly gamebreaking issues..... i bought it a year later and it was very playable and continues to be fun and engaging. FM should reach that point as well as long as the devs really wanna bring it up to that level.
"I hope we dont lose another amazingly talented studio"
I mean, they released this...
I really wish I didn’t buy the new one and I love modern gaming and if I’m being really honest I’m sort of over gaming in general . Forza Motorsport and Starfield etc are just prime examples of modern gaming and company’s downfalls. I’m starting to do other activities and I’m finding I just don’t enjoy gaming as much and really not going to buy any other games going forward unless maybe a sale. I dunno anymore, gta 6 can come out and I’ll probably just wait for a sale.
I feel so bad for the devs because there is no way this was their fault. The studio has had this game cooking for 6 years in development, and im sure Microsoft and Turn 10 have made so many changes to the point where its like this. They've prided themselves on realism with race regulations and car progression but like:
- how do you explain that you have to unlock levels for a car and use a separate currency to upgrade it?
- I've had so many races ruined by someone just not seeing me and by there just being sudden rain when no the race didn't call for rain. Why is there no crew chief to tell you to keep your space and to prepare for rain?
- theres so many weird track limits that should not exist. And Yas Mariba feels like ice in Section 3 of the full circuit if you go slightly off.
I just want this game to be good
Also, the variable weather option just straight up only has one weather mode. It always starts cloudy and then rain after like a few minutes.
I haven't "Played" Forza Motorsport in months. Sure Im on the game every day but I am AI Leveling. I stopped playing hoppers, and just do a league race once a week but other than that Just AI lvling cars in the background and just watching youtube or movies.
Casual player here, played every FM title since FM2. Just started playing FM8 on game pass. Ai is unplayable. Online has no hoppers. There are hardly any cars and hardly any tracks. My next console will be a Playstation.
I don't blame you for wanting to switch it really does suck
I think the community leaving isn't that big of a deal. It shows the suits that they where wrong, and if the devs can turn it around players will come back. A trillion $ company can take the hit for a couple of game studios and Phil will most likely have a word with T10 as well. The only thing that can really fail them is if they get good competition in the simcade niche. like GT7
Levelling up cars is ridiculous. A major turn off for me. Bought an xbox to play this game. Another thing is the car sounds. Played for a month nonstop when it released
and now im back on gran turismo 7
Alright, I have been with Xbox for 18 years now and had pretty much all forzas. I still have 2 years of game pass paid for, but the idea of getting a PS5 and GT7 (a 500€ idea) has crossed my mind more times than I feel comfortable admitting...
i’d been a die hard forza fan from motorsport 1 and this is the first title i haven’t wanted to play. i was really hoping this would re spark my love for the series but was utterly disappointed.
Those are two very well worded messages, I'm not someone who is involved in competitive sim racing but those messages immidiantly allowed me a good understanding of the thoughts and feelings of those 2 groups, I really hope the best for them and support their decisions
Immediately
The close racing in this game is fake,
There’s video proof that there is a reverse slipstream type effect, when two people are battling if the car behind is close enough to the car in front, the traction of the car in front will suffer, in higher classes this means not being able to take a corner flat out that you previously could. A possible reason behind this is to make it harder for faster drivers to pull away from others, making others feel like they have more of a chance.
so basically rubberband
@@KingLich451 yeah something like that
This is what happens when investors design a game themselves instead of leaving it to the developers. It’s designed with greed in mind, not passion and enthusiasm for racing games
T10 isn’t listening to shit. If they did 90% of the issues wouldn’t have been a thing on this game. 6 years to make and we all paid just to be beta testers. There’s a handful of good and new things for FM8 but otherwise it’s a massive step backwards. It will need at least a year of fixing to be worth the initial price.
and it STILL baffles me that FM8 won "GAME OF THE YEAR" for best sport/racing game just when i thought the bar couldn't get any lower
Until they redo interior cam, car sounds, car models (these are mostly ported crom FM5), more realistic rain, toss the CaRPG gimmick and fix incorrect track details, fix the old trash photo mode, and obviously the terrible menus and AI.
I doubt they will every address the mobile phone game car models... which sucks. GT7 uses future proofed 8k laser scanned models that take 270 days per car, with real dyno engine recordings.
Forza just hits copy/paste from old games and the sounds are acrually worse than theyve ever been. I have them all since #1.
Aside from all the issues in the game, certain design decisions make no sense.
Also, why are we limited to so few replay saves? Its my Hard Drive, dont tell me how much I can save to it.
The penalty system just pisses me off and why the fuck would you group race attributes????? If I turn off or down Penalties (which I actually wanted to use) why is Tires and Fuel tied to it? So now the game becomes super easy (which I dont want, but then I cant get fuel and tire benefits just to keep from getting penalized every other turn. Now with it off, the entire back grid has it out for me. One lap I had 5 cars ram me off the road in 2 turns. You already know im the one who got penalized for that too.
I dont want to use rewind unless im learning apexes, but I have to just to avoid this games shenanigans. Then if you rewind too much, it stops scoring the sector, yes, even when rewinding to before the sector marker.
I tried, finished 3 tours, but I'm out until they fix the shit. Just wears on me. Its no longer fun, but work. I also noticed some of the upgrades I do will randomly turn off mid lap and turn back on. Or its the Stabilization, TC or ABS, just being very inconsistent.
Another thing, why have a brake and throttle guide to learn a track but not make it opaque to the sunlight glare and volumetric lighting keeping us from seeing the guide. WTF is the point of a guide you can't see on bright corners. No problem if Im simming after learning the track, but not while im using it. Just very annoying shit.
Game pissed me off so much I bought a PS5 and GT7 and will prolly never touch forza again honestly.
FM2023's career mode is by far the worst in forza history, like at least FM5 had some of the unique events from fm1-4. FM2023 on the other hand doesn't even have autocross or....any unique challenges really, just a boring linear checklist of the most milktoast genres of cars ever.
It doesn't help that the tour intro cutscenes sound like they were written by chatGPT in an effort to sound like FM4's clarkson monologues.
From the ground up? More like: smashed into the ground.
This game deserves every bit of failure and anyone who sticks up for this game are part of the problem, as a huge fan of FM and FH games it’s disgusting how much of an insult this game is.
Nobody can give me the “oh but they didn’t have the time or budget” BULLSHIT.
Edit: Wow I thought Car X’s livery editor was buggy sometimes but WOW this is pathetic lmao
im in the 'tried it for $1 on gamepass' club. i played it really just to get the e ray in horizon 5. i did play a couple tours in singleplayer and honestly it wasnt terrible. if the car leveling thing was its own gamemode itd be great. however its the only way to upgrade cars and everyone hates it. and every 'built from the ground up' statement is just completely laughed at when in the same trailer they showed the same forza aero and roll cage that theyve had for 1000 years. this is a triple A games studio now. they cant go around touting its new when anyone with eyes can see its not only not new, its just flat worse than even previous entries in the same series. i hope they get a fire lit under them soon and can figure something out soon. right now its on a track to failure.
Guys... wake up, just play something else, this game its doomed since day one, don't waste any more of your time playing it.
And the icing on the cake is that now none of the few event organizers that his game had wants to do anything for this game anymore so yeah, even the low competitiveness scene this game had its now gone.
It would take them atleast two years to fix all the issues and content this game needs to be decent.
Forza and turn 10 are not failing, Its dead! Patching this game is like putting a band aid on a leg blow off by an IED!!!!
Microsoft has been really dropping the ball with their flagship titles, like how did this game launch in this state after the launch disaster in halo infinite? Like learn from your mistakes Microsoft
Releasing unfinished versions of all first party titles. Gamepass = release now and patch it later.
The car selection in the trailer made me expect standard Forza shortcomings. What T10 released was far worse than I could have ever imagined.
The few additions to the on-track portion of the game (qualifying, tire compounds, rubbering, etc) show that they’re moving in the right direction. The car points system needs to go ASAP though. Can’t even do a proper BoP process without dozens of hours of grind per tester.
I don't really understand the open world driving of the Horizon series. It just has no pull for me. I want real world tracks...even the fictional ones are cool. Guess I'll go back to PC2 until AC2 releases. I've tried to get into AC, but it requires too many mods to bring it to a current state.
I only play private Multiplayer and career mode in Forza. I have 3-4 friends that like to race and it's been fun so far. We wish we could add in AI to make it more interesting, and I do wish the cars were ok to drive with the stock tunes. It's annoying to have to work on each car to keep it from fighting you all race long.
I dislike the progression system in this game. I just want all the upgrades and not suffer a hour of driving a stock mega slow car. I gave up till they change the upgrade system for the best.
Not enough car points!! Drives me nuts!