We're replicating this style of minimum breaking strength / MBS test here: th-cam.com/video/PbBigMyKJYA/w-d-xo.html Shout out to @HowNot2. Sometimes like with lasers and stun guns we only barely get into topics you guys have requested that channels like these have become leaders in. Head on over there to more learn more about carabiners and climbing gear in general! Here's more stock photo shots from that day: www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/mountain-climbing-anchor.html
Now I want to see if they tested any of the same ones to see how close each of the test rigs are to each other. Be a great comparison episode if they intentionally did a whole episode of the same stuff. Now I want TTC to test soft shackles , webbing loops and off-road recovery products.
The question is can you afford the hobby, safely. Buying "the best" won't keep you any safer if your belayer fails, or you neglect to tie in correctly. I picked a margin of safety I was comfortable with and bought the lightest and most functional to my needs. Turned out it wasn't near the most expensive, and all from trusted brands. But almost all the aluminum forgings come from china now, be it pistons, biners, or billets.
I regularly wear fall-arrest equipment for work: massive steel carabiners, heavy nylon harnesses, and thick lanyards. I'm curious to see how they would hold up in these tests.
@@-tr0n And that's not even counting the weight of the tools either! But then again we're not scaling whole mountainsides. Also the company buys the PPE to avoid liability and we'd get fired if we're caught without it.
I think they would perform phenomenally well, as I imagine the safety factor is just higher for kit used in industry. To incorporate the additional use, wear, maybe even abuse, it will receive.
I was taught that if you are using a non-locking carabiner, you should use two and face the gates in opposite directions so if you bumped into something both gates would not open.
thats also how climbers sometimes set up a top anchor to use for climbing, you use two locking carabiners, and face the gates opposite directions to avoid any chance of them opening
@@ohyou_6599 it depends on what youre doing. sport climbing, you use those wire gated ones on quickdraws, which get attached to the bolts as you climb, and you clip you rope in to them. for top rop climbing, someone builds an anchor on top using slings and locking carabiners, usually, and the person on the ground has a belay device that they use to slow the climber, usually attached to their harness with another locking carabiner
just cause the gate opens doesnt mean anything... if theres tension on the lines theyre not going to void physics to jump out of the opening, and the gates arent required to give adequate strength in any sort of typical situation... if you weight 300lbs and fall 30 ft sure you need everything to be tip top.. but 300lb people arent the bulk of climbers
Would've been interesting to see what happened to the steel one if you kept loading after the gate broke. Some of the failures were catastrophic and would certainly result in loss of function, but some of the gate failures would still have held some kind of load.
that one broke so easy because it has a tiny hinge pin . it's not for climbing or lifting anything. just for stupid stuff like plastic chain in a theater or something like that.
Once the gate breaks, the strength is drastically reduced. The reason it didn't fail catastrophically is became the hydraulic cylinder is somewhat "displacement controlled" It didn't continue applying the load once the carabiner yielded over some distance. If he was hanging weights from them (they are not displacement controlled), they would have failed catastrophically once the gate failed.
For those of you who don’t know what he is doing. This simulates the carabiner knocking against the rock, as the gear is being rattled around by the climber’s movement and to see if it would cause the carabiner gate to open.
heavier gates, such as solid and especially locking (mostly screw since two/three stages would lock themselves) have more mass and will do this reliably. Wire gates won't flutter. Some solid gates will or won't as easily depending on tension, but often the ones which do not feel cumbersome to use and degrade faster.
Seems hownot2 came up a lot here but having more data from another source seems like a good thing to me. Consider a collaboration tho, it only helps the channels and spread the information.
It's a great way for us to discover good channels, really. Posting different categories we briefly test like this and you guys pointing them out. Been watching for a 1/2hr and this is good stuff!
Would love to see some pro brands represented up here for reference. I'm thinking Petzl, Fusion Climbing, DBI Sala. Back when I was a climber for radio towers, we were moving almost exclusively to the auto double or triple lock style of carabiners. The wire and screw lock types weren't allowed to be used for personal safety at all.
I'd call Camp pro level. My fall arrest harness is made by them. I'm surprised that the test here showed a failure below the rating. Almost makes me wonder if it was a fake.
I’m no EXPERT but I have professional climbing experience as well as rope access training, and I’d just like to say thank you for making this video. While there are a few minor technical mistakes (mainly dealing with fall factors and the nuances of kilonewtons vs static lbs), I really appreciate you making videos like this. There aren’t many high quality videos that actually show the dangers of mislabeled and sketchy carabiners, and the language that is used around them. Especially showing how a well engineered aluminum carabiner far out performs a cheap steel one. One thing I’d like to suggest in future tests would be to have the connection to the carabiner be a soft connection, as most are rated to perform only with a certain diameter piece of hardware going through them, which is often webbing or rope. Obviously this is not how they will be used all the time in the real world, but it may help to standardize the physics around the connection. Loved your videos and I really appreciate everything you all do!
It also needs to be done in one pull. Just look at the Camp Photon: when they maxed out, that biner was clearly very badly damaged before they reset to do their second pull on it. If I saw one looking like that, I'd stop and do whatever is needed to get it out of the system right then. That test was about like doing crash safety tests progressively harder on the same car: once you've smashed the crumple zones enough and popped the airbags, of course it's nowhere near as safe for subsequent impacts.
@@kd5nrh Comparing impacts to a pull is pretty disingenuous. Sure, it would be better to do it in one pull, but i dont think it affects the results too much.
@@banaana1234it effects the metal a lot actually, it heat tempers it and when the biner is allowed to cool the metal integrity will be compromised. Respectfully intended
doing multiple pulls instead of a single pull mostly shows that the metal has been fatigued to the point of plastic deformation. I'm not a smart man, but once you reach that point the question then becomes how much more force is needed to cause it to fail and it isn't like these carabiners have any sort of bounce or spring in them at that point. It would be nice for them to do another test with a rig that has a little more travel to prevent the need to reset though.
It would be great if you were speaking in pounds or kilograms. My home scale doesn't have kilonewtons. I have very little idea of what the heck is a newton.
The Carabiners we used on our fall arrest safety harnesses were rated at 54 kn (costed about $100 each). They had a threaded gate, so when secured, the gate was affixed to the rest of the carabiner through a thread collet. Not saying I would want a stack of them on my hip while climbing, but it's nice to know that the harness was way over built.
well ya . in rope access and arborist work they use strong heavy steel carabiners for rigging and light ones for the rest and weak alluminium ones for holding tools .
Awesome test as always guys! Can you do a follow up video with branded climbing and safety gear from the larger known manufacturers like Petzl? Testing the strength on the hooking points on the climbing gear etc. has also been super useful. Since I really want to know how strong my work and climbing safety gear really is.
There is really no doubt that the major manufacturers gear is going to easily meet it's rated strength. Petzl is one of the top manufacturers of climbing and rope access gear in the world, you really have nothing to worry about with them. Besides your harness (if it's a climbing harness anyway) is only rated to 15kn, and your body would break long before that..
i would say given their possible use in climbing you should test multiple samples of each brand for consistency, as it only tskes 1 bad one to cauae somone to have a very bad day
The black diamond one is the only brand name that I recognize from when I used to go climbing, and the only one of these that seem like I would ever consider actually climbing with them or loading them for actual WORK would be the twist locks
Camp and Trango are also reputable climbing gear brands. But the other problem with buying climbing gear on amazon is the amount of fakes that are sold as real gear.
Honestly surprised the wire clasp part didn’t break or pull on any of them, I’d think the wire was weaker then the aluminum but tests like these always teach me something new.
The wire is spring steel. Tensile strength of around 200 ksi or more. The 7075 Aluminum of biners might be 70 or 80 ksi. But the bigger factor is the fact that the wire gates are placed in mostly tension while the Aluminum spine is placed in significant bending.
Wiregates are actually safer than non-locking solid gates, because they're less susceptible to 'gate flutter'. Besides, solid gates use a steel pin at the hinge point, which isn't much thicker than the wiregate anyway.
You guys should really test some bicycle/ mountain biking lights. Brands like NiteRider, Outbound Lighting, knog, Bontrager, or the crazy 12000 lumen Moneer by MagicShine would be a great place to start!
You know it is going to be a wild ride when the ultra cheap chinese one not only meets its claims, but vastly exceeds them. I actually like these cheap aluminium ones, as keyrings. Very convenient to clip on and off a beltloop. That said, does look like I could actually use them for far more than that.
My concern and worry is about quality control and how they went about rating them... Was this a "factory freak" that exceeded what the majority handle? Did the manufacturer test a whole lot of them and then rated them based on the *weakest,* or, did they rate them on the _average?_ I'd feel safe if it was rated on the weakest, which would explain why this exceeded that by a huge degree. Whereas, if rated on the average, I'd be worried for the safety of everyone buying these! 😟 _(the Safety Lottery, basically....)_
If you want some reliable ones that are still cheap, Metolius sells some 22kN rated and climbing certified carabiners for around $5. Reputable brand that’s well known in the climbing world, I use them for my keychain and on my climbing harness
So happy to see How Not 2 being referenced so much. Hopefully Ryan can collab together with him. Although TTC doesn't have a slack snap machine, testing the metal on metal is at least interesting. It's something to compare/contrast data.
Do you know if the carabiner tests have an (iso?) standard of testing where they use non-malleable contact points (Such as metal eyelets as in your test) or malleable contact points (As in a dyneema rope or similar connected to the carabiner as an interim media, avoiding metal on metal contact). I ask because the malleable contact points will distribute the load over the molded contour along the interior of the carabiner, while the non-malleable will apply the pressure on the initial and much smaller interior contact points until the carabiner deforms against the steel eyelet. This difference may be significant enough to introduce micro-fractures during deformation and change the load results. I'm not a climber, just a pilot with an engineering degree, but I thought I would toss this out there for consideration of a future test for rope vs eyelet load bearing deltas. Thanks.
The Black Diamond "Neutrino" (looks to be the model tested) are incredible carabiners! Ive used two of them to pull a stuck vehicle from deep snow and zero damage
Probably elsewhere in the comments but as a ceramic engineer have you thought about the point-loading of the stresses from your eyebolts as opposed to rope to distribute the load a little? Also more situationally representative fwiw.
Don’t forget in many situations at least one side of the carabiner will be on something steel in many cases, part of a harness, other equipment, anchors etc… so probably not an issue for their test I’d imagine
Id like to see shock loading. You could load a steel cable rig with ur enerpac with a trigger pin to simulate a fall. The elasticity of some of these shows it's ability to absorb impacts vs a static load. I maybe totally wrong about plasticity vs a more rigid material. Good video!
That stock photo is really something interesting. For one, it's a via ferrata, so their main safety is through the (in this picture) yellow-black lanyard, the rest is only there to make a possible fall more comfortable/less risky (majorly simplified). While I agree not screwing a carabiner shut if it has that option, it's again clipped into a quickdraw, which doesn't even have that lock to begin with. Which, because of that other lanyard, is actually fine. Wo while they're definitely some strange things going on in that image, the screwgate isn't really that large of an issue. And for anyone looking to get into rock climbing, please only get properly rated gear, it should have UIAA and CE markings (and I think the minimum is a 20kN rating) EDIT: The gate open rating refers to the actual gate, the bar, being open (meaning there's lever action going on), the screw doesn't really add much strength (or shouldn't anyways)
The main issue with the situation in the stock photo is that the carabiner is partly open, due to it having been partly screwed shut when the rope was fed through it, and it being used for belay purposes. The other thing is the quick draw setup he's using to clip that carabine into, you'd only use quick draws to clip into bolts along the route, not for a belay or main anchor point. The dude himself is quite safe as he is, like you said, on a lanyard but his climbing partner is at risk of this carabiner or the quick draw failing and there is no redundancy. I would not climb with this guy.
Just a note for improvement in future videos: you should be using a load cell and displacement sensor. The reason climbing carabiners are aluminum instead of steel is because we WANT them to stretch! (The amount they stretch) x (force) is the amount of energy they absorb. In a fall, the carabiner isnt absorbing force - it's absorbing energy! If you measure the force and displacement, then plot them together (where y is force or stress and x is displacement or strain), the area under the curve you plot is the amount of energy absorbed by the carabiner. If one carabiner only holds 10 kN but stretches 4 cm and another maxes out at 30 kN and stretches 1 cm, the 10 kN absorbs more energy and saves you from a bigger fall! So with a carabiner, more force does not necessarily mean more better! Also, you had to adjust the test setup on the camp and the last carabiner because they stretched (which, again, we want them to do) You can't do that: you're in the plastic deformation range. You got a lower rating from the camp than you otherwise would have because of fatigue. You've got to test in a single go.
It might be a valuable note to say which carabiners are claim to be UIAA rated. (There's a lookup tool for consumers to verify themselves but I know i'd be interested to see that additional detail in the table).
NO WORRIES - 2 things I'm NEVER doing are cave exploring/spelunking OR climbing rock faces and relying on ropes and fingertips. Enjoy, adrenaline junkies!
Carabeaners for climbing or fall arrest purposes used at my work come with actual test sheets, and they do fall under the lifting appliance regime so these certificates are on file, and they are pull tested accordingly. One is seriously rolling the dice using uncertified lifting/climbing gear hanging their weight or expecting fall restraint to happen. Thanks TTC for the video as this helps brimg awareness of this issue to the masses.
Future Suggestion - The abundance of hyped LED work lights available now from the aftermarket world that clip directly only standard batteries such as M18 / Dewalt / Blue Gang etc.... nice compact worklight idea but I think they are shooting the moon on lumens and also might not all over over-discharge protection for Li-Ion batteries. Love the value of your work and also the salty comments zingers :) be well.
I have those unijoy brand carabineers for basic stuff around the house. They hold a hammock, heavy tool bag, or potted plant just fine. And were super cheap when i found them on sale, I paid like $2 per piece. Glad to see they hold up as advertised.
For a little insight into the stock photo you used, the climber is doing a route called a Via ferrata which is essentially a fully protected route where you mainly climb on metal holds which have been added to the rock, and it looks like he is at a belay station using a Petzl GriGri assisted braking belay device to belay up another climber. The locker on his GriGri should definitely be closed for added safety but when belaying up your second climber the most forces that carabiner is likely to see is around 1kn.
I dont know if its the dulcet tones of your voice, the occassional, subtle humor, and/or the actual science/testing you do for all things, but, despite the fact ill never climb anything with said caribeeners, here i am.
Really nice. Thank you for testing. But can you do another one with authentic grade carabiners like ok, hms, and so one from petzl, skylotec, edelrid and so on? That would be very interesting. Also in comparison with these amazon ones. thanks man.
Please for the love of Christ only use a CE rated carabiner for Climbing or life-support such as the ones From Camp Petzel cypher , black diamond, and other Climbing companies
Video suggestion: can you test Crane rigging slings and straps? I recently bought multiple links, nylon, lifting, slings, and also some metal lifting slings off Amazon. It seems like a company named Vevor is the best option, so that’s mostly what I went with. Thank you for all the great information and video content.
mode of failure is very important to me... some had a designed point of failure and some did NOT! There should Always be a designed point of failure with the rest of the structure remaining intact, so inspection and precautions can be taken.
Stock photo also has the wire clips saddled backwards on the upper eye of the cable. Oh, and it looks like there is an energy absorber that is generally only supposed to hook up to the dorsal D hooked up on the front of the harness. There is a lot going on there.
Would you consider the cases where only the gate fails to be the true “max load” as opposed to testing until the rope or cable would theoretically “slip” out of the link? Just curious on your thoughts there. Great video!
When they say "Rope Sports" they aren't just trying to dodge being listed as actual climbing gear but also trying not to get labeled as bondage gear which in most storefronts would be classified as "Adult Products" and thus something that wouldn't be allowed.
I suspect the Trango would have failed at a lower force had it been on a cable/rope because of how and where it failed on the leverage point of the eyelet.
For the stock photo that was used, that was not rock climbing so the safety part is not quite as severe. That was on a via ferrata, where they have a guide wire attached to them and are walking/climbing on man made objects in the rock itself. It looks like they wanted it to look more like he was climbing, so he had attached to a QuickDraw (two carabiners with a strong fabric connecting them) in the wall and posed like he was helping someone. That’s in addition to his connection to the wire and most likely standing on rebar. Open carabiner is a big concern, but it looks like that was never an actual part of the safety system he was actually using.
Yeah the whole photo is staged probably with the briefing to "attach a bunch of slings and carabiners so it looks technical". Or maybe they are bolting the via ferrata. Either way, leaving the screw gate open like that is unlikely to be intentional and shouldn't be in a stock photo
Yea, the red biner is jammed open with the lock.... Also he is using a single draw as his top anchor which is 2 more non-redundant non-locking biners all inline. The webbing he is actually hanging from is clipped with a locking biner that is not locked. The rope he is pulling on is being routed over a rock edge on the other side of the pulley... Wait is that actually a grigri? I'm not even a climber...
You're correct; it is a via ferrata situation and the guy belaying is probably just assisting someone or acting as a backup to reduce the chance of an injury if the climber should fall. He is not acting in a safety critical role as the via ferrata leashes will keep the climber from falling to their death.
Wouldn't carabiners best be tested with 'shock' loading rather than a gentle increase of pressure. I wanna know if they'll supoort a freefalling 250lb weight if I was to use them climbing. I think I'd only buy ANSI rated stuff and PAY for quality.
Shock loading is just force x acceleration and still a value, that we'd compare against. That's the fall factor portion we talk about. This is how the regulatory bodies test them (with fancier equipment of course)
A big consideration for me as a climber is quality control. Sure, a cheap carabiner might hold the load from a fall. But if I buy 20 of them, will they all be that same quality? Or will one of them pass QC but be far weaker than the others?
I'm a climber and I do not use amazon carabiners but I do wonder if the attachment point of the biner could change the results since these binners are usually meant to be attached to ropes not metal that thick. Bolts are very thin , rings are a bit thicker but it ranges of the climbing area of what hardware they used to bolt anchors
The main reason everything is good is because of drop hammer forging. Once the Chinese caught on and started using huge drop hammers, no one could compete with their pricing anymore.
I think what is missing from your vid is the engineering, quality control and assurance that goes into the known brand carabiners that you trust your life to. The knock off ones have little of that, so you never know if you got one from a bad batch etc
Yessss! So glad you’re testing these. I watch a channel called “how not to” and he tests climbing equipment to breaking. So cool to watch stuff tested to failure. Thanks TTC! ❤️ 🙏
Had to modify an engine hoist one time but i bought double action snap hooks because I didn't trust carabiners since I had no rope experience outside of my stint in the service. Would be interesting to see if they were actually that much more strong
i think it heavily matters where your contact points are. for example the riozoiu seemed like the pulling rings were exerting force in a different direction than most other carabiners. the pulling ring on the right, locked into the curve of the riozoiu
I feel like out of the aluminum wire carabiner the black diamond did the best, not even taking capacity in to account. If they all consistently broke at that point, it's still the safest one for climbing since it would still have the chance to be holding on tightly to the ropes. I'd be curious to see if that was a purpose built failure point or pure luck, since most of the others failed along the non gate side.
If you are making decisions based on how safe the unit looks "after" failure, that kinda misses the point. The primary criteria I would use would be is it ANSI/CE rated, is it the correct style/gate/material for the application, does it consistently match or outperform it's MBS, in the same pull scenario... does it break in a consistent manner, and personally is it from a brand established and trusted within the alpine/climbing/rope-access/SAR space?
@@clickykbd "does it break in a consistent manner" is pretty much what I was getting at. I am not a climber, and know nothing about it, so I was just looking at it from my own point of view, and since I usually try and think of all outcomes, including the worst, that's where I ended up.
Your conclusions about sketchy stock-photo guy are pretty much spot on. The CAMP carabiner (a legit climbing brand; I would fall on that without thinking twice) probably broke (slightly) below spec because your beefy hardware didn't sit close enough to the spine of the carabiner, where it's strongest (and where a stretchy ~10mm rope would sit). Within the world of actual climbing brands (with genuine UIAA ratings), all carabiners are more than strong enough for climbing falls, and you can choose based on other criteria. Within the world of Amazon, I'd be worried that the rating was a lie OR that there could be a bad batch. I would never climb on gear that wasn't made by a legit climbing brand. (On Amazon, I'd also be worried about counterfeits.)
I would still love to see what that very odd “new” m18 2666 is good for. Just for fun I’d also love to see some of the low budget offerings from the various brands like the Milwaukee 2663 or 2659. Lastly I think it would be hella cool to test some old school impact guns just to see how far they’ve come. Like the Snap On NiMh powered guns or the first gen Ingersoll lithium with the huge but lightweight twist in lithium packs. Assuming you couldn’t find NOS guns, I know accurate testing would be impossible as all the guns would be used but I still think it would be really cool to see. I’ve got some the aforementioned Ingersoll in both 1/2 and 3/8 and the last of the NiMh snap on 3/8 gun. They’re yours to borrow if you ever consider doing a throwback test like this.
Scamazon "climbing carabiners" are on a specific level of bad, but to take things up a notch, go take a look at the 'carabiners' and/or 'locking levers', etc. that are being supplied with.. Get this.. Motor-Powered-Paragliders! Imagine hitting these components w/ x-rays, etc. used in fab/welding.. Eeesh..
You should not stop the test just because the flimsy LATCH breakes! Most of these carabiners was still holding "the rope" just fine when the latch broke! You should've just continued to see what KN broke the carabiner itself...
A a lot of these results are suspect, because you had to stretch it out first and reset the ram. It's not surprise that those carabiners failed at a lower range on the second pull after being deformed. Also, given the problems Amazon has with counterfeit products getting mixed into their inventory, you should never ever buy safety rated equipment through them!
I climb a lot and that is a major reason why I just won’t buy climbing gear from Amazon. I buy my climbing gear from certain outdoor stores like REI or similar, or more preferably, a couple of local mountaineering stores run by climbers. They just don’t screw around with ensuring supply chain integrity.
As a climber, these videos definitely show that a lot of the chinese carabiners hold there own. That being said, I would HIGHLY recommend sticking with name brands (Black Diamond, Petzl, Mammut, CAMP, etc.) if you do want to actually use them for climbing. You're not paying for the kN rating, you're paying for the quality control.
Camp is not an "Amazon" carabiner, it's a reputable climbing brand. It's not overspec'd because of weight being critical. You get exactly what you pay for.
The person being delayed is probably fine... I'd absolutely close the carabiner, but a top rope belay is unlikely to cause high forces. As for why he's not using the anchor. He actually shouldn't. The rope runs throughbthe carabiner and abraids it, using your own gear is just a decent thing to do. In addition, some belay devices require specific carabiners, this may also be the case here, I don't recognise that specific device though. Metal on metal is really no problem. We generally try to avoid fabric on fabric, as they can cut into each other, but that also kinda depends on the situation.
Wow. I'm getting old. Learned and trained only with steel carabiners. Learned mountain climbing with them, Air Assault (101st ABN) with them. Not sure I'd trust any aluminum one, but hey, I first rappelled back in '77 and last in 2005. I think the wire gates are sketchy and prefer the steel, threaded lock carabiners, though they weren't used in the Army when I was in. Too old to be messing around rock climbing now. With that said, I'd still stick with steel.
Mate are you sure about this video you made? You bought and tested a bunch of Carabiners, fine. But what does this tell you about the really important stuff: quality control and consistency? What you pay for if you go for an expensive well known brand, is not the max load. It's the insurance that 99.999999999% of their products on the market is actually up to spec. That's what is difficult to achieve, that's what's expensive, that's what you actually need if you are trusting your life on an item. Your video fails spectacularly to acknowledge this fact and given the nature of the product you are reviewing... are you sure?
Had only recognised Camp and Black Diamond as brands I've seen stocked in the UK in climbing stores, with Camp being at the budget end. Most of my carabineers are from the Welsh brand DMM, as they are higher rated (and I'm a lump!), but I do have one Black Diamond belay carabineer too.
I bought a Amazon carabiner for my keys, it said it was tested to some enormous weight. My keys got caught on a fence I was working on, the the carabiner straight up broke in half. Not my belt loop, not the fence, the "5,000 kg" or whatever carabiner. I don't climb, but if I did I wouldn't be buying my gear from Amazn.
If my fat ass is dangling off a cliff by one it's gonna be made of S2 Tool Steel AT MINIMUM. Yes, itt'l be heavy, but at that point the carabiner will be the strongest part of the equation and that's one less thing to worry about.
160%? Hahaha very impressive! PF ref aside, this was fun, thanks! Also, just got to the first underperformer, at 90% of 22kN, and it seems to me that at those forces, a climbing rope would be about half the diameter of your cast steel holding rings, which pulls the bending angle in and changes the whole dynamic. But, since that one didn't break at the gate where that moment makes the most difference (that's why they're so much stronger with the rope in the elbows and how they get away with the weakness of a gate in the first place), i guess probably didn't matter in this test. But maybe, just maybe, holding with dyneema rather than steel (or just small bits of climbing rope, because it would be interesting to see what those do too, especially with different knots, conducting generally three experiments at once) would make that 10% difference we're looking for (or some fraction of it).
As a professional tree serviceman, this test was FANTASTIC! Thank you so much for this. I risk my life every day with these "klikoneutron" stamped carabiners while having no idea what that means. Forces in pounds are easily understood. Metric is garbage.
Stock photos are traditionally set up by people utterly ignorant of their subject. Stock footage fails like actors holding soldering irons by the hot end are so common they're memes. I'd expect Amazon carabiners to be barely fit for keyring or tool hanging use which is all I use mine for. It's a surprise to see any manage not to be trash. I would not expect CONSISTENT reliability from non-professional equipment.
We're replicating this style of minimum breaking strength / MBS test here: th-cam.com/video/PbBigMyKJYA/w-d-xo.html
Shout out to @HowNot2. Sometimes like with lasers and stun guns we only barely get into topics you guys have requested that channels like these have become leaders in. Head on over there to more learn more about carabiners and climbing gear in general! Here's more stock photo shots from that day: www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/mountain-climbing-anchor.html
Tite reach has released new impact rated units for your testing pleasure!
Was hoping there was some connection. Always sweet when your favorite channels randomly collaborate.
For those interested, HardIsEasy also has very good testing and informational climbing content.
Love what you guys are doing!
Consumer Reports could learn a lot from you... 😏
When I saw the thumbnail I actually thought it was a video by @hownot2! I'm subbed to both
This is the strangest How Not 2 video I've ever seen.
Same thought...
I was incredibly confused when I heard the voice 😅
i swore it was a hownot2 video in my subscriptions
I feel like these dudes should get together and come up with some good ideas
Now I want to see if they tested any of the same ones to see how close each of the test rigs are to each other. Be a great comparison episode if they intentionally did a whole episode of the same stuff. Now I want TTC to test soft shackles , webbing loops and off-road recovery products.
A wise man once said "spend as little as possible on equipment where your life is at risk"... Right before plunging to his death
😆
More like "A wise man said once..." 🙂
And that man's name was Stockton Rush.
The question is can you afford the hobby, safely. Buying "the best" won't keep you any safer if your belayer fails, or you neglect to tie in correctly. I picked a margin of safety I was comfortable with and bought the lightest and most functional to my needs. Turned out it wasn't near the most expensive, and all from trusted brands. But almost all the aluminum forgings come from china now, be it pistons, biners, or billets.
Yes, I'll trust my life to a product manufactured in a country that doesn't value human life very much.
It'd be interesting see how shock loading vs the gradual application of force affects the results.
Check out hownot2 for that he has a drop tower that he has started to build.
@HowNot2 has tons of videos showcasing different failure modes for carabiners and all kinds of other climbing gear! Go check it out!
According to hownot2, not much difference
Was thinking the same. These are rated for a shock load not continous.
First thing I thought.
I regularly wear fall-arrest equipment for work: massive steel carabiners, heavy nylon harnesses, and thick lanyards. I'm curious to see how they would hold up in these tests.
How not 2 has all the videos you need
It's nutty how heavy our gear is compared to climbers, especially considering how often it gets relied on.
@@-tr0n And that's not even counting the weight of the tools either! But then again we're not scaling whole mountainsides. Also the company buys the PPE to avoid liability and we'd get fired if we're caught without it.
I think they would perform phenomenally well, as I imagine the safety factor is just higher for kit used in industry. To incorporate the additional use, wear, maybe even abuse, it will receive.
If it is Miller they left Franklin, PA and moved production to Mexico. 😡
I was taught that if you are using a non-locking carabiner, you should use two and face the gates in opposite directions so if you bumped into something both gates would not open.
thats also how climbers sometimes set up a top anchor to use for climbing, you use two locking carabiners, and face the gates opposite directions to avoid any chance of them opening
I don't think I've ever seen someone climb with non locking
@@ohyou_6599 it depends on what youre doing. sport climbing, you use those wire gated ones on quickdraws, which get attached to the bolts as you climb, and you clip you rope in to them. for top rop climbing, someone builds an anchor on top using slings and locking carabiners, usually, and the person on the ground has a belay device that they use to slow the climber, usually attached to their harness with another locking carabiner
just cause the gate opens doesnt mean anything... if theres tension on the lines theyre not going to void physics to jump out of the opening, and the gates arent required to give adequate strength in any sort of typical situation... if you weight 300lbs and fall 30 ft sure you need everything to be tip top.. but 300lb people arent the bulk of climbers
@@AndrewBrowner I checked a few carabiners, and with the gate closed it’s rated at 24 kN and open it drops 8 kn. I wouldn’t call that nothing.
Would've been interesting to see what happened to the steel one if you kept loading after the gate broke. Some of the failures were catastrophic and would certainly result in loss of function, but some of the gate failures would still have held some kind of load.
that one broke so easy because it has a tiny hinge pin . it's not for climbing or lifting anything. just for stupid stuff like plastic chain in a theater or something like that.
Once the gate breaks, the strength is drastically reduced. The reason it didn't fail catastrophically is became the hydraulic cylinder is somewhat "displacement controlled" It didn't continue applying the load once the carabiner yielded over some distance. If he was hanging weights from them (they are not displacement controlled), they would have failed catastrophically once the gate failed.
The “slap the carabiner in the palm of your hand” out-of-the-box quality test was the most valuable to me.
Yeah I think most of us do that slap it a few times if it feels cheese you get a different one.
For those of you who don’t know what he is doing. This simulates the carabiner knocking against the rock, as the gear is being rattled around by the climber’s movement and to see if it would cause the carabiner gate to open.
heavier gates, such as solid and especially locking (mostly screw since two/three stages would lock themselves) have more mass and will do this reliably. Wire gates won't flutter. Some solid gates will or won't as easily depending on tension, but often the ones which do not feel cumbersome to use and degrade faster.
Seems hownot2 came up a lot here but having more data from another source seems like a good thing to me. Consider a collaboration tho, it only helps the channels and spread the information.
It's a great way for us to discover good channels, really. Posting different categories we briefly test like this and you guys pointing them out. Been watching for a 1/2hr and this is good stuff!
Would love to see some pro brands represented up here for reference. I'm thinking Petzl, Fusion Climbing, DBI Sala. Back when I was a climber for radio towers, we were moving almost exclusively to the auto double or triple lock style of carabiners. The wire and screw lock types weren't allowed to be used for personal safety at all.
HowNOT2 does this they have a better testing rig
Sounds like good thinking. I much prefer the double/triple lockers unless it''s semi-permanent. Seconded on looking up HowNot2 here on YT.
I'd call Camp pro level. My fall arrest harness is made by them. I'm surprised that the test here showed a failure below the rating. Almost makes me wonder if it was a fake.
Pretty sure BD, Camp and Trango are "pro brands"
@@adaycjIt was bought on Amazon, chances are good it was a fake. They've got a lot of counterfeits of just about everything.
I’m no EXPERT but I have professional climbing experience as well as rope access training, and I’d just like to say thank you for making this video. While there are a few minor technical mistakes (mainly dealing with fall factors and the nuances of kilonewtons vs static lbs), I really appreciate you making videos like this. There aren’t many high quality videos that actually show the dangers of mislabeled and sketchy carabiners, and the language that is used around them. Especially showing how a well engineered aluminum carabiner far out performs a cheap steel one. One thing I’d like to suggest in future tests would be to have the connection to the carabiner be a soft connection, as most are rated to perform only with a certain diameter piece of hardware going through them, which is often webbing or rope. Obviously this is not how they will be used all the time in the real world, but it may help to standardize the physics around the connection. Loved your videos and I really appreciate everything you all do!
It also needs to be done in one pull. Just look at the Camp Photon: when they maxed out, that biner was clearly very badly damaged before they reset to do their second pull on it. If I saw one looking like that, I'd stop and do whatever is needed to get it out of the system right then.
That test was about like doing crash safety tests progressively harder on the same car: once you've smashed the crumple zones enough and popped the airbags, of course it's nowhere near as safe for subsequent impacts.
@@kd5nrh Comparing impacts to a pull is pretty disingenuous. Sure, it would be better to do it in one pull, but i dont think it affects the results too much.
@@banaana1234it effects the metal a lot actually, it heat tempers it and when the biner is allowed to cool the metal integrity will be compromised. Respectfully intended
doing multiple pulls instead of a single pull mostly shows that the metal has been fatigued to the point of plastic deformation. I'm not a smart man, but once you reach that point the question then becomes how much more force is needed to cause it to fail and it isn't like these carabiners have any sort of bounce or spring in them at that point. It would be nice for them to do another test with a rig that has a little more travel to prevent the need to reset though.
It would be great if you were speaking in pounds or kilograms. My home scale doesn't have kilonewtons. I have very little idea of what the heck is a newton.
HowNot2 stares unapprovingly 😂
This video is super good enough tho 😅
The Carabiners we used on our fall arrest safety harnesses were rated at 54 kn (costed about $100 each). They had a threaded gate, so when secured, the gate was affixed to the rest of the carabiner through a thread collet. Not saying I would want a stack of them on my hip while climbing, but it's nice to know that the harness was way over built.
well ya . in rope access and arborist work they use strong heavy steel carabiners for rigging and light ones for the rest and weak alluminium ones for holding tools .
Still wouldn't use an unknown brand, though. Even if a few specimen tested good, it's all about consistency.
Yeah, it only takes one single out of spec boy to make you take an infinite nap in the forever box
Awesome test as always guys! Can you do a follow up video with branded climbing and safety gear from the larger known manufacturers like Petzl? Testing the strength on the hooking points on the climbing gear etc. has also been super useful. Since I really want to know how strong my work and climbing safety gear really is.
theres another youtube channel HowNOT2 that does this for climbing gear
There is really no doubt that the major manufacturers gear is going to easily meet it's rated strength. Petzl is one of the top manufacturers of climbing and rope access gear in the world, you really have nothing to worry about with them.
Besides your harness (if it's a climbing harness anyway) is only rated to 15kn, and your body would break long before that..
i would say given their possible use in climbing you should test multiple samples of each brand for consistency, as it only tskes 1 bad one to cauae somone to have a very bad day
The black diamond one is the only brand name that I recognize from when I used to go climbing, and the only one of these that seem like I would ever consider actually climbing with them or loading them for actual WORK would be the twist locks
Camp and Trango are also reputable climbing gear brands.
But the other problem with buying climbing gear on amazon is the amount of fakes that are sold as real gear.
Honestly surprised the wire clasp part didn’t break or pull on any of them, I’d think the wire was weaker then the aluminum but tests like these always teach me something new.
The wire is spring steel. Tensile strength of around 200 ksi or more. The 7075 Aluminum of biners might be 70 or 80 ksi. But the bigger factor is the fact that the wire gates are placed in mostly tension while the Aluminum spine is placed in significant bending.
Wiregates are actually safer than non-locking solid gates, because they're less susceptible to 'gate flutter'.
Besides, solid gates use a steel pin at the hinge point, which isn't much thicker than the wiregate anyway.
You guys should really test some bicycle/ mountain biking lights. Brands like NiteRider, Outbound Lighting, knog, Bontrager, or the crazy 12000 lumen Moneer by MagicShine would be a great place to start!
I seriously thought hownot2 had posted
You know it is going to be a wild ride when the ultra cheap chinese one not only meets its claims, but vastly exceeds them. I actually like these cheap aluminium ones, as keyrings. Very convenient to clip on and off a beltloop. That said, does look like I could actually use them for far more than that.
My concern and worry is about quality control and how they went about rating them...
Was this a "factory freak" that exceeded what the majority handle?
Did the manufacturer test a whole lot of them and then rated them based on the *weakest,* or, did they rate them on the _average?_
I'd feel safe if it was rated on the weakest, which would explain why this exceeded that by a huge degree.
Whereas, if rated on the average, I'd be worried for the safety of everyone buying these! 😟 _(the Safety Lottery, basically....)_
If you want some reliable ones that are still cheap, Metolius sells some 22kN rated and climbing certified carabiners for around $5. Reputable brand that’s well known in the climbing world, I use them for my keychain and on my climbing harness
So happy to see How Not 2 being referenced so much. Hopefully Ryan can collab together with him. Although TTC doesn't have a slack snap machine, testing the metal on metal is at least interesting. It's something to compare/contrast data.
Do you know if the carabiner tests have an (iso?) standard of testing where they use non-malleable contact points (Such as metal eyelets as in your test) or malleable contact points (As in a dyneema rope or similar connected to the carabiner as an interim media, avoiding metal on metal contact). I ask because the malleable contact points will distribute the load over the molded contour along the interior of the carabiner, while the non-malleable will apply the pressure on the initial and much smaller interior contact points until the carabiner deforms against the steel eyelet. This difference may be significant enough to introduce micro-fractures during deformation and change the load results. I'm not a climber, just a pilot with an engineering degree, but I thought I would toss this out there for consideration of a future test for rope vs eyelet load bearing deltas. Thanks.
This is quickly becoming my favorite channel. You guys always provide high quality information on products not normally covered by other TH-camrs.
The Black Diamond "Neutrino" (looks to be the model tested) are incredible carabiners! Ive used two of them to pull a stuck vehicle from deep snow and zero damage
The Black Diamond interested me the most, because I have their poles. It’s cool to see how strong their aluminum standards are.
Probably elsewhere in the comments but as a ceramic engineer have you thought about the point-loading of the stresses from your eyebolts as opposed to rope to distribute the load a little? Also more situationally representative fwiw.
After a review, not convinced rope would make a big difference. Would definitely make the testing more than a little hairy at those loads 💀
Don’t forget in many situations at least one side of the carabiner will be on something steel in many cases, part of a harness, other equipment, anchors etc… so probably not an issue for their test I’d imagine
Will you guys consider testing 12v off road winches next? I know I don’t trust HF’s ratings!
Project Farm did some testing on 12V winches including one from HF.
None of them pull to their rating, that HF winch is actually pretty damn good and unbeatable when it comes to value for money.
Id like to see shock loading. You could load a steel cable rig with ur enerpac with a trigger pin to simulate a fall. The elasticity of some of these shows it's ability to absorb impacts vs a static load. I maybe totally wrong about plasticity vs a more rigid material. Good video!
That stock photo is really something interesting. For one, it's a via ferrata, so their main safety is through the (in this picture) yellow-black lanyard, the rest is only there to make a possible fall more comfortable/less risky (majorly simplified). While I agree not screwing a carabiner shut if it has that option, it's again clipped into a quickdraw, which doesn't even have that lock to begin with. Which, because of that other lanyard, is actually fine. Wo while they're definitely some strange things going on in that image, the screwgate isn't really that large of an issue.
And for anyone looking to get into rock climbing, please only get properly rated gear, it should have UIAA and CE markings (and I think the minimum is a 20kN rating)
EDIT: The gate open rating refers to the actual gate, the bar, being open (meaning there's lever action going on), the screw doesn't really add much strength (or shouldn't anyways)
The main issue with the situation in the stock photo is that the carabiner is partly open, due to it having been partly screwed shut when the rope was fed through it, and it being used for belay purposes. The other thing is the quick draw setup he's using to clip that carabine into, you'd only use quick draws to clip into bolts along the route, not for a belay or main anchor point. The dude himself is quite safe as he is, like you said, on a lanyard but his climbing partner is at risk of this carabiner or the quick draw failing and there is no redundancy. I would not climb with this guy.
Just a note for improvement in future videos: you should be using a load cell and displacement sensor.
The reason climbing carabiners are aluminum instead of steel is because we WANT them to stretch! (The amount they stretch) x (force) is the amount of energy they absorb.
In a fall, the carabiner isnt absorbing force - it's absorbing energy!
If you measure the force and displacement, then plot them together (where y is force or stress and x is displacement or strain), the area under the curve you plot is the amount of energy absorbed by the carabiner.
If one carabiner only holds 10 kN but stretches 4 cm and another maxes out at 30 kN and stretches 1 cm, the 10 kN absorbs more energy and saves you from a bigger fall!
So with a carabiner, more force does not necessarily mean more better!
Also, you had to adjust the test setup on the camp and the last carabiner because they stretched (which, again, we want them to do) You can't do that: you're in the plastic deformation range. You got a lower rating from the camp than you otherwise would have because of fatigue. You've got to test in a single go.
You should test tower climbing carabiners next. Would prefer actual steel ones that are auto lock/auto close.
It might be a valuable note to say which carabiners are claim to be UIAA rated. (There's a lookup tool for consumers to verify themselves but I know i'd be interested to see that additional detail in the table).
I was hooked on this vid. Got roped into watching the whole thing. I was really pulling for the cheapo brands.
NO WORRIES - 2 things I'm NEVER doing are cave exploring/spelunking OR climbing rock faces and relying on ropes and fingertips. Enjoy, adrenaline junkies!
And yet you have a fascination with guillotines? Hmmm...
@@davidg3944 Fine craftsmanship deserves admiration.
Tower climber here, how do I send you some of the carabiners my company issued me? I would like to see them tested.
Carabeaners for climbing or fall arrest purposes used at my work come with actual test sheets, and they do fall under the lifting appliance regime so these certificates are on file, and they are pull tested accordingly. One is seriously rolling the dice using uncertified lifting/climbing gear hanging their weight or expecting fall restraint to happen. Thanks TTC for the video as this helps brimg awareness of this issue to the masses.
"remember kids, the only difference between screwing around and science is writing it down"
Future Suggestion - The abundance of hyped LED work lights available now from the aftermarket world that clip directly only standard batteries such as M18 / Dewalt / Blue Gang etc.... nice compact worklight idea but I think they are shooting the moon on lumens and also might not all over over-discharge protection for Li-Ion batteries. Love the value of your work and also the salty comments zingers :) be well.
I have those unijoy brand carabineers for basic stuff around the house. They hold a hammock, heavy tool bag, or potted plant just fine. And were super cheap when i found them on sale, I paid like $2 per piece. Glad to see they hold up as advertised.
For a little insight into the stock photo you used, the climber is doing a route called a Via ferrata which is essentially a fully protected route where you mainly climb on metal holds which have been added to the rock, and it looks like he is at a belay station using a Petzl GriGri assisted braking belay device to belay up another climber. The locker on his GriGri should definitely be closed for added safety but when belaying up your second climber the most forces that carabiner is likely to see is around 1kn.
Thank you! I was scrolling looking for this since I know nothing about climbing except you go up and down so really wanted to know what was going on
I dont know if its the dulcet tones of your voice, the occassional, subtle humor, and/or the actual science/testing you do for all things, but, despite the fact ill never climb anything with said caribeeners, here i am.
Really nice. Thank you for testing.
But can you do another one with authentic grade carabiners like ok, hms, and so one from petzl, skylotec, edelrid and so on? That would be very interesting. Also in comparison with these amazon ones.
thanks man.
Please for the love of Christ only use a CE rated carabiner for Climbing or life-support such as the ones From Camp Petzel cypher , black diamond, and other Climbing companies
Video suggestion: can you test Crane rigging slings and straps? I recently bought multiple links, nylon, lifting, slings, and also some metal lifting slings off Amazon. It seems like a company named Vevor is the best option, so that’s mostly what I went with.
Thank you for all the great information and video content.
mode of failure is very important to me... some had a designed point of failure and some did NOT! There should Always be a designed point of failure with the rest of the structure remaining intact, so inspection and precautions can be taken.
Stock photo also has the wire clips saddled backwards on the upper eye of the cable.
Oh, and it looks like there is an energy absorber that is generally only supposed to hook up to the dorsal D hooked up on the front of the harness. There is a lot going on there.
Along these same lines, a rope test would be great. There's plenty of cheap rope on Amazon making hefty claims.
Can you test Politicians with that rig ???
"$5 Death Wish" is my favorite metalcore band
Good to know I can tow my car with the Black Diamond carabiner I got to clip keys to my belt loop!
Now test a real climbing carabiner from REI or such.
Would you consider the cases where only the gate fails to be the true “max load” as opposed to testing until the rope or cable would theoretically “slip” out of the link? Just curious on your thoughts there. Great video!
If you are climbing with Amazon gear, well that’s on you.
This is one of those channels that’s going to have videos made about its legacy on TH-cam in 10 years.
When they say "Rope Sports" they aren't just trying to dodge being listed as actual climbing gear but also trying not to get labeled as bondage gear which in most storefronts would be classified as "Adult Products" and thus something that wouldn't be allowed.
I suspect the Trango would have failed at a lower force had it been on a cable/rope because of how and where it failed on the leverage point of the eyelet.
For the stock photo that was used, that was not rock climbing so the safety part is not quite as severe. That was on a via ferrata, where they have a guide wire attached to them and are walking/climbing on man made objects in the rock itself. It looks like they wanted it to look more like he was climbing, so he had attached to a QuickDraw (two carabiners with a strong fabric connecting them) in the wall and posed like he was helping someone. That’s in addition to his connection to the wire and most likely standing on rebar. Open carabiner is a big concern, but it looks like that was never an actual part of the safety system he was actually using.
Yeah the whole photo is staged probably with the briefing to "attach a bunch of slings and carabiners so it looks technical". Or maybe they are bolting the via ferrata. Either way, leaving the screw gate open like that is unlikely to be intentional and shouldn't be in a stock photo
Yea, the red biner is jammed open with the lock....
Also he is using a single draw as his top anchor which is 2 more non-redundant non-locking biners all inline.
The webbing he is actually hanging from is clipped with a locking biner that is not locked.
The rope he is pulling on is being routed over a rock edge on the other side of the pulley... Wait is that actually a grigri?
I'm not even a climber...
You're correct; it is a via ferrata situation and the guy belaying is probably just assisting someone or acting as a backup to reduce the chance of an injury if the climber should fall. He is not acting in a safety critical role as the via ferrata leashes will keep the climber from falling to their death.
Could you redo your tests with a rope, or even a rope jacket around the pulley to not let the geometry of the test apparatus affect the test accuracy?
I only use these for my keys! 😊
Black Diamond and Cypher are both 'professional' and well established U.S. based companies.
CAMP as well.
Wouldn't carabiners best be tested with 'shock' loading rather than a gentle increase of pressure. I wanna know if they'll supoort a freefalling 250lb weight if I was to use them climbing. I think I'd only buy ANSI rated stuff and PAY for quality.
Shock loading is just force x acceleration and still a value, that we'd compare against. That's the fall factor portion we talk about. This is how the regulatory bodies test them (with fancier equipment of course)
A big consideration for me as a climber is quality control. Sure, a cheap carabiner might hold the load from a fall. But if I buy 20 of them, will they all be that same quality? Or will one of them pass QC but be far weaker than the others?
I'm a climber and I do not use amazon carabiners but I do wonder if the attachment point of the biner could change the results since these binners are usually meant to be attached to ropes not metal that thick. Bolts are very thin , rings are a bit thicker but it ranges of the climbing area of what hardware they used to bolt anchors
I guess I shouldn’t worry I only use those to hold my keys. Good stuff. Keep it up.
The main reason everything is good is because of drop hammer forging. Once the Chinese caught on and started using huge drop hammers, no one could compete with their pricing anymore.
I think what is missing from your vid is the engineering, quality control and assurance that goes into the known brand carabiners that you trust your life to. The knock off ones have little of that, so you never know if you got one from a bad batch etc
Yessss! So glad you’re testing these. I watch a channel called “how not to” and he tests climbing equipment to breaking. So cool to watch stuff tested to failure. Thanks TTC! ❤️ 🙏
Had to modify an engine hoist one time but i bought double action snap hooks because I didn't trust carabiners since I had no rope experience outside of my stint in the service. Would be interesting to see if they were actually that much more strong
i think it heavily matters where your contact points are. for example the riozoiu seemed like the pulling rings were exerting force in a different direction than most other carabiners. the pulling ring on the right, locked into the curve of the riozoiu
Would like to see a much larger sample size per-unit here. Another channel did this test as well and the cheaper brands were inconsistent.
Not gonna lie... the aluminum ones really surprised me. Was expecting a more drastic failure.
As some others have said, using non locking carabiners should be double with opposite facing gates. Though my opinion locking is always preferred.
I feel like out of the aluminum wire carabiner the black diamond did the best, not even taking capacity in to account. If they all consistently broke at that point, it's still the safest one for climbing since it would still have the chance to be holding on tightly to the ropes. I'd be curious to see if that was a purpose built failure point or pure luck, since most of the others failed along the non gate side.
If you are making decisions based on how safe the unit looks "after" failure, that kinda misses the point. The primary criteria I would use would be is it ANSI/CE rated, is it the correct style/gate/material for the application, does it consistently match or outperform it's MBS, in the same pull scenario... does it break in a consistent manner, and personally is it from a brand established and trusted within the alpine/climbing/rope-access/SAR space?
@@clickykbd "does it break in a consistent manner" is pretty much what I was getting at. I am not a climber, and know nothing about it, so I was just looking at it from my own point of view, and since I usually try and think of all outcomes, including the worst, that's where I ended up.
HowNOT2 does tests like this and more - good channel
i climb for a living, theatical rigging, you might as well tie into those with a granny knot. great for holding your keys
The commentary is always perfect in these videos
Your conclusions about sketchy stock-photo guy are pretty much spot on. The CAMP carabiner (a legit climbing brand; I would fall on that without thinking twice) probably broke (slightly) below spec because your beefy hardware didn't sit close enough to the spine of the carabiner, where it's strongest (and where a stretchy ~10mm rope would sit). Within the world of actual climbing brands (with genuine UIAA ratings), all carabiners are more than strong enough for climbing falls, and you can choose based on other criteria. Within the world of Amazon, I'd be worried that the rating was a lie OR that there could be a bad batch. I would never climb on gear that wasn't made by a legit climbing brand. (On Amazon, I'd also be worried about counterfeits.)
To trust Amazon carabiners is how you win a Darwin award
Nice test. It would be interesting to compare with the brand name products for the second round.
Could you test proper climbing carabiners? Interesting to see their claims put to the test. Love the high speed. Great work.
We included some brands I've definitely seen on climbing gear before, but open to suggestions
I would still love to see what that very odd “new” m18 2666 is good for. Just for fun I’d also love to see some of the low budget offerings from the various brands like the Milwaukee 2663 or 2659. Lastly I think it would be hella cool to test some old school impact guns just to see how far they’ve come. Like the Snap On NiMh powered guns or the first gen Ingersoll lithium with the huge but lightweight twist in lithium packs. Assuming you couldn’t find NOS guns, I know accurate testing would be impossible as all the guns would be used but I still think it would be really cool to see. I’ve got some the aforementioned Ingersoll in both 1/2 and 3/8 and the last of the NiMh snap on 3/8 gun. They’re yours to borrow if you ever consider doing a throwback test like this.
Scamazon "climbing carabiners" are on a specific level of bad, but to take things up a notch,
go take a look at the 'carabiners' and/or 'locking levers', etc. that are being supplied with.. Get this..
Motor-Powered-Paragliders! Imagine hitting these components w/ x-rays, etc. used in fab/welding..
Eeesh..
You should not stop the test just because the flimsy LATCH breakes!
Most of these carabiners was still holding "the rope" just fine when the latch broke!
You should've just continued to see what KN broke the carabiner itself...
A a lot of these results are suspect, because you had to stretch it out first and reset the ram. It's not surprise that those carabiners failed at a lower range on the second pull after being deformed.
Also, given the problems Amazon has with counterfeit products getting mixed into their inventory, you should never ever buy safety rated equipment through them!
I climb a lot and that is a major reason why I just won’t buy climbing gear from Amazon. I buy my climbing gear from certain outdoor stores like REI or similar, or more preferably, a couple of local mountaineering stores run by climbers. They just don’t screw around with ensuring supply chain integrity.
As a climber, these videos definitely show that a lot of the chinese carabiners hold there own. That being said, I would HIGHLY recommend sticking with name brands (Black Diamond, Petzl, Mammut, CAMP, etc.) if you do want to actually use them for climbing. You're not paying for the kN rating, you're paying for the quality control.
Single clip carabiners are only gear hangers. Triple locks are for climbing.
Camp is not an "Amazon" carabiner, it's a reputable climbing brand. It's not overspec'd because of weight being critical. You get exactly what you pay for.
The person being delayed is probably fine... I'd absolutely close the carabiner, but a top rope belay is unlikely to cause high forces.
As for why he's not using the anchor. He actually shouldn't. The rope runs throughbthe carabiner and abraids it, using your own gear is just a decent thing to do. In addition, some belay devices require specific carabiners, this may also be the case here, I don't recognise that specific device though. Metal on metal is really no problem. We generally try to avoid fabric on fabric, as they can cut into each other, but that also kinda depends on the situation.
Wow. I'm getting old. Learned and trained only with steel carabiners. Learned mountain climbing with them, Air Assault (101st ABN) with them. Not sure I'd trust any aluminum one, but hey, I first rappelled back in '77 and last in 2005. I think the wire gates are sketchy and prefer the steel, threaded lock carabiners, though they weren't used in the Army when I was in. Too old to be messing around rock climbing now.
With that said, I'd still stick with steel.
Mate are you sure about this video you made?
You bought and tested a bunch of Carabiners, fine. But what does this tell you about the really important stuff: quality control and consistency?
What you pay for if you go for an expensive well known brand, is not the max load. It's the insurance that 99.999999999% of their products on the market is actually up to spec. That's what is difficult to achieve, that's what's expensive, that's what you actually need if you are trusting your life on an item.
Your video fails spectacularly to acknowledge this fact and given the nature of the product you are reviewing... are you sure?
Trust me,if your weight cant produce 10-15kn your always safe...even in rappelling where we can only produce 1-2kn...
some of them DOESN'T intended for climbing and some them is super good enough for climbing even those unknown brand
Had only recognised Camp and Black Diamond as brands I've seen stocked in the UK in climbing stores, with Camp being at the budget end.
Most of my carabineers are from the Welsh brand DMM, as they are higher rated (and I'm a lump!), but I do have one Black Diamond belay carabineer too.
I bought a Amazon carabiner for my keys, it said it was tested to some enormous weight. My keys got caught on a fence I was working on, the the carabiner straight up broke in half. Not my belt loop, not the fence, the "5,000 kg" or whatever carabiner. I don't climb, but if I did I wouldn't be buying my gear from Amazn.
If my fat ass is dangling off a cliff by one it's gonna be made of S2 Tool Steel AT MINIMUM. Yes, itt'l be heavy, but at that point the carabiner will be the strongest part of the equation and that's one less thing to worry about.
Drop-safety test guns. Primed casing, no powder or bullet, repeatable jigs. * cough * SIG.
160%? Hahaha very impressive! PF ref aside, this was fun, thanks!
Also, just got to the first underperformer, at 90% of 22kN, and it seems to me that at those forces, a climbing rope would be about half the diameter of your cast steel holding rings, which pulls the bending angle in and changes the whole dynamic.
But, since that one didn't break at the gate where that moment makes the most difference (that's why they're so much stronger with the rope in the elbows and how they get away with the weakness of a gate in the first place), i guess probably didn't matter in this test.
But maybe, just maybe, holding with dyneema rather than steel (or just small bits of climbing rope, because it would be interesting to see what those do too, especially with different knots, conducting generally three experiments at once) would make that 10% difference we're looking for (or some fraction of it).
As a professional tree serviceman, this test was FANTASTIC! Thank you so much for this. I risk my life every day with these "klikoneutron" stamped carabiners while having no idea what that means. Forces in pounds are easily understood. Metric is garbage.
Stock photos are traditionally set up by people utterly ignorant of their subject. Stock footage fails like actors holding soldering irons by the hot end are so common they're memes.
I'd expect Amazon carabiners to be barely fit for keyring or tool hanging use which is all I use mine for. It's a surprise to see any manage not to be trash. I would not expect CONSISTENT reliability from non-professional equipment.