Sketchy carabiners from Amazon, AliExpress, Ebay and Walmart tested!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2022
- Just because the swivel is "rated" for 30kN or 6,750lbf doesn't mean the cheap looking carabiners they come with are safe for life supporting activities such as climbing or aerial silks. A carabiner safe for climbing should be rated for 20kn or more and certified at least by CE with an EN number and ideally UIAA rated because they have a higher standard. There have been reports of actual fraudulent products made to look like the legit ones!!! This is a risk if you buy life supporting gear from Amazon, Ebay, AliExpress, Walmart and especially Wish. You can generate more than 10x more force than you weigh if the gear has to catch your falling body, PLUS you want a safety ratio meaning you want the gear at least 3x stronger than the most force you will put on it.
These carabiners are found at....
Amazon amzn.to/3vXxEgl
Ebay tinyurl.com/28tz7tp6
AliExpress tinyurl.com/bw6xrnhe
Walmart tinyurl.com/2p8wtcyn
AusKit's website www.auskit.net/products/toys/9...
Thank you Chris Becker for sending me the knockoff carabiners
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Amazon review reviewed
02:09 Misguided advertisement
05:02 Swivel and carabiner break tests
06:50 What gear is safe
08:59 Amazon knockoff nightmare
12:39 Chinese carabiner break tests
![อาจารย์ยอด : พระเตะผี [ผี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zusDOIFasaE/mqdefault.jpg)
Surprising that the swivel actually held what it promised.
I did some digging on the certification of this swivel.
The CE number can be used to find the independent testing institute where the product was tested. According to the number 1019 this product should have been tested by a company in the czech republic.
The EN number references the norms that this product was tested for. We can ignore EN365 as it is a norm about manuals, instructions and markings on the product. EN354 is the important norm that actually includes the load testing.
This czech testing company publishes lists containing information about all the products it has tested and what norms they comply with (last update 04.10.2021).
I could not find a single swivel manufactured by a chinese company that was tested according to EN354. Furthermore, the markings on the swivel claim that it was tested according to a version of the norm that was released in the year 2002. This norm has been revised 3 times in the meantime and the current version is from 2010.
The only chinese swivel that I could find was only tested according to EN365 (does not contain any load testing). However, it is manufactured by another company and does not look like the AusKit swivel.
So if the AusKit has not been certified in the last 4 months those markings are likely fake. According to the reviews on amazon this product has already been for sale for a couple of years.
If you already have the contact for the Institut you should absolutely bring this to thier attention. Faking the Norms and CE number is a very serious matter and this institute is likely in a good position to at least have the product removed from amazon.
Plese contact the testing institute or send me contact info so I can inform them myself. I am from Prague so communication in Czech is fine for me.
This happens with UIAA numbers on "climbing carbines" ,as well
Sometimes they will just duplicate the branding as well. I've received counterfeit gear as a gift. I won't buy critical gear from amazon/ebay anymore, unless it's the actual brands store front.
Most likely it's not Conformité Européenne logo but China Export logo. They made it extremely similar to CE logo, to confuse buyers, only difference is the distance between letters. It's hard to be 100% sure due to curvature of an object.
It's illegal to use China Export logo in UE, but I'm assuming not in the rest of the world. I can't find Auskit products on European Amazon sites.
You should look up the "Chinese Export" logo explains a lot of strange CE logos on products.
The worst part of the carabiner is how slow it failed and bent. Imagine seeing that happen before you fall to your death. Youd be sooo pissed for sooo little time lol
How did you get here
I got two of the steel biners from Amazon. No markings. Hung on one of them low in my harness to see. They seemed fine. Until I tried it with the gate open to experiment. The flex was huge. Didn't open up but flexed outwards a half inch. Scared me and I was 2 feet off the ground.
These things are crazy. I cringe when I pay for climbing gear but my life is worth it!
Keep educating 🤘
The “Chinese Export” Mark is designed to look really similar to the Europe quality mark, by the looks of it it probably got the CE mark for Chinese export
That's a myth, there is no 'Chinese Export' logo. The only thing that exists is the CE logo, and Chinese manufacturers who don't check the printing requirements of the logo, so they often misprint the CE logo. The whole 'China Export' thing was a joke of someone that has just gained traction from people who started to believe the joke.
@@markkNL did not know that, but if it’s not even printed correctly how can u be sure it is actually up to standard safety wise
@@shedonfire You can't, they just recreate the logo and do not test anything. They often just counterfeit the whole product with all markings included.
CE itself is also quite useless since there is no governing body that tests it. Companies themselves can just print it and with that they promise it will pass the CE standards, but no testing is actually required.
@@markkNL well... by putting on a CE mark without testing, the manufacturer is liable.
Now the only problem is, that the manufacturer and seller sit in china and their whole company is not worth more then a month product.
@@sarowie Yes, the manufacturer is always responsible for their product complying, but the difference with a lot of other norms is that you don't need testing for CE markings (it's recommended to make sure your product complies but it is not mandatory). You will only find out if a product actually complies or not by accident.
I’d like to see a comparison of athletic climbing gear vs industrial safety climbing gear.
Usually it’s just heavier and designed for thicker ropes. Look at the pro traxion vs the micro traxion for a hood example
As an old ex-climber and caver, I used to love the days we would go to the big city and buy gear.
In the shop, smelling the new leather boots, swinging new ice tools...testing the actions on carabiners...not so convenient as looking at a screen but so much more fullfilling...
Wow I almost bought those camp carabiners when I saw them on sale on amazon a couple months ago. I ultimately decided to just buy from REI as saving 10 bucks wasn't worth a counterfeit. Glad I made the right choice 😨
After I bought a bunch of cheap paracord from Amazon, Amazon asked me to answer another customer's question.
The question: is this good for climbing?
My answer: it's good for climbing but not good for falling.
Your transparency always gets a like from me. Not a climber, but love the content!
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
"It does meet CE standard". There both is, and ISN'T such a thing.
The CE mark only states that the manufacturer takes on responsibility in ensuring that their product meets all applicable certifications and regulations for the application that their product is made for. Some products won't need much to be eligible for a CE mark, while other stuff will require 3rd party certification.
Also, it is the manufacturer that decides if they want to have a CE mark or not on their product. In a fair portion of the EU, it isn't even legally required. (Since the CE mark isn't about the requirements on a product for it to be sold in an EU member country, but rather about the standards needed for a company in one EU country to export their product to another EU country without having to recertify the product in the other country.)
And since a lot of products doesn't really require much certifications for it to be put to market, then the CE mark itself doesn't require any certifications either. This might make it sound like a meaningless mark. But it still is only a mark to indicate that the manufacturer has stated that they ensured that the product followed all regulations applicable to the product, if this turns out to be false in reality, then that manufacturer is often legally responsible.
Secondly, if one relies on a safety device, then ensure that it has the actual certifications for what it is intended to do.
The reason why the CE mark is this vague is because it more or less needs to cover everything. That is everything from a simple toy to an actual train, or just a hammer as well as almost everything else.
In short, the CE mark is just the manufacturer legally taking responsibility in ensuring that their product should have been built to all applicable regulations and passed all required certifications as well. And if it isn't, the manufacturer is falsely claiming all of that, and this is fraud.
Lastly, there is also a myth about the "Chinese exports" mark, this doesn't actually exist. There is some manufacturers that uses a non correct CE mark where the C doesn't form a half circle that lines up with the half circle of the E. But this is usually a sign that the product isn't actually living up to the regulations. (since one of the regulations is to use the correct graphics for the mark.) There is nothing legally preventing a manufacturer from putting the mark on their product.
However, adding the mark to a product requires that one follows all regulations applicable to the product. And showing that one complies with these regulations is usually a ton of paperwork, a lot of it needs to be publicly documented as well.
I always took the "Chinese Export" thing as a tongue in cheek way of describing a product of dubious heritage that obviously does not conform to EU regulations, yet has a CE mark on it. Things like mains voltage electronic devices with metal cases and no protective earth connection to the case.
@@nw7630
1. The CE mark isn't "Required" (except in a few countries). What the CE mark identifies is that the manufacturer states that they have ensured that the product follows all applicable EU regulations for the product. And that the product in turn can therefor be sold within the whole union.
If a company only sells their product in one country, and live up to the regulations in that one country, then they do not need the CE mark to sell in that country. (unless required by the country itself, something that isn't always the case.)
2. Yes, when put onto the EU Market, but that doesn't mean "put onto the market in a country within the EU."
Selling a product specifically on the Germany market doesn't mean one also sells it in Spain, France, Greece, etc. If one starts selling it in a handful of EU countries, then it is typically easier to get the CE mark than to get approval in each individual country. But one can get individual approvals in each country and not have a CE mark, this is though generally stupendous, but legally one can do that.
3. A lot of countries in the EU has their own regulations for various product. But yes there is a lot of uniformity in the union, but not for everything.
Ie, in some EU countries a CE marked product is still not sufficient for some applications, even if it would be in another EU country.
Then there is the whole "specialty equipment" exception to the CE mark, ie products that ONLY have type approvals and no CE mark at all.
And yes, there is likewise product categories that shouldn't have a CE mark at all. For better or worse...
I myself work with electronics manufacturing in Sweden. And have read the EU directives on the topic. When only putting a product onto the local market, then one don't need the CE mark since one only have to live up to the local regulations.
@@nw7630 Yes, a lot of regulations are uniform across the union. But some aren't.
And still, if one makes a product for the local market (typically industrial or low volume) then it is fairly pointless to do the mountain of paperwork for the CE certification.
Or if one's product is a "component" of something larger, then likewise it doesn't typically have a CE mark on it. (a "component" can technically be a fully functioning product of its own.)
Also, most EU regulations are fairly large wide sweeping rules that don't go into minute details. So local regulations often puts in extra requirements that often ends up invalidating a CE marked product for the application, and it is here that more application specific type approvals typically come in.
But in the end, it is the manufacturer that decides if they want to CE mark their product or not.
It is obviously harder to sell it in many EU countries if one haven't done the mountain of paperwork for the CE mark. But without the CE mark one more or less have to get it approved in each individual country, and that is a lot of effort too. So it depends on what is less effort. For small volume stuff or project work, CE marks are often overkill.
"In a fair portion of the EU, it isn't even legally required."
Not according to the EU Commission : "The Conformitè Europëenne (CE) Mark is defined as the European Union’s (EU) mandatory conformity marking for regulating the goods sold within the European Economic Area (EEA) since 1985. The CE marking represents a manufacturer’s declaration that products comply with the EU’s New Approach Directives. These directives not only apply to products within the EU but also for products that are manufactured in or designed to be sold in the EEA. This makes the CE marking recognizable worldwide even to those unfamiliar with the EEA."
"There is an EU requirement that products not in conformity with the provisions of the directives are not allowed to circulate in the territories of the member states; appropriate action should be taken to remove these products from sale and use within the specific state. "
"HOW DOES THE CE MARK WORK
The mark indicates that a product:
* Fulfills the requirements of relevant European product directives
* Meets all the requirements of the relevant recognized European harmonized performance and safety standards
* Is fit for its purpose and will not endanger lives or property"
The EN mark tells you they are claiming that it meets a specific European Standard…
Thanks for all you do for the vertical community
I have a couple ideas for things to test:
1. Stoppers with a significant kink in the wire from previous falls.
2. Stoppers where the wire is frayed or has a few broken strands.
Thanks for the great content, I've learned so much about translating kN to real life
I absolutely LOVE your videos, and you guys are hilarious when it comes to rating gear and calling out trash gear. HOWEVER SOMETHING YOU NEED TO KNOW (you possibly already do)!! The 'CE' Symbol has a very SPECIFIC print for GENUINE ratings, the swivel appears to have the fake symbol.
If you value you life, listen to this gentleman.
I am a climbing arborist with 20+ years of experience and would never buy anything on Ebay/Amazon that i plain to use as “Life Support” Another thing i might add about cheap gear is it might hold your weight today but after a little uses can lose there strength significantly over time in the form of stress cracks or corrosion. Trust me dead or Handicapped people do not climb very well🤔
It's funny, the ad under the video was for the most useful 5 in 1 carabiner.
I love when you test weird sketchy stuff. You give a lot of information. I think most of it just comes down to material science. A thick 7075 aluminum ring is just going to be strong by its nature. Would be interesting to see how some hardware store carabiners and ropes stack up. Especially the yeild curves on the hardware store double braided nylon ropes. Or nylon vs poly ropes. Not exactly climbing related but still interesting.
Heat treatment on aluminum makes a massive difference, so two identical parts made from the same chunk of 7075 might have radically different strengths if the heat treat was different.
Guys, I'm so stoked for edelrid in your shop!
Impressed by the swivel. Would indeed be good for stuff like garden play setups.
I always get sooo excited when Ryan posts a new vid!
Great video, don't buy sketchy stuff without the proper ratings or from companies that don't put their customers safety on the first place
My experience is that many "knockoff" products sourced from china are the same as the better brand products, as in same product different label. Which is fine for most consumer goods, but I agree with you that the required testing to get certified is worth it as it only takes a single bad batch that gets found in the certified side but doesn't in the back door sales stream to kill you.
Yeah, if I’m buying parts of hobby electronics or filters for my cameras knockoff that save me a ton of value are great. But if my ass is hanging off the side of a mountain I want to know I have proper gear.
I think highfactor falls are probably VERY common on swingsets... Or maybe i was a dumber than average kid... But we'd walk across the top, pull up the swing, then jump out into/onto it all the time
3:12 Just pick one add blocker.... I prefer Ublock but you only need one.
Just what I was looking for with these cheap steel that I use for some home gym equipment and cheap alloy Al-Nasr rated at 25kn that I got for only 3-4 USD. For the alloy ones , Flex and duration time in tension when it is below the maximum rating before breaking could probably help determine more consistency in quality for comparison to the more Legit branded ones. The 16 and 12kn ones with no names can be bought for around 2 USD. Thanks, great videos.
The Al Nasr carabiners sound suspiciously similar to the ancient Ea-nāṣir, who received a complaint in cuneiform accusing him of selling substandard copper 😂
I really enjoy your videos. Would you be able to do a pull test on a petzyl micro traxion and tiblock to see how strong they really are? Thanks
This is a huge problem with Amazon. For example, we have over 25 years of experience using reflectorized materials. 3M have several ways of verification of genuine 3M materials that meet ASTM standards. 1 being 3M Safe Card process. Hundreds of Amazon shops sell Chinese counterfeit 3M safety products that they cannot supply verification on and Amazon doesn't do anything about it. I wouldn't be surprised if your gear ratings aren't just screened on to the products without actually being professionally rated.
I got this swivel and carabiners, I wouldn't use the carabiners to hold my keys however the swivel I use on my bridge as an arborist and it has been flawless with little to now wear yet. It has been a little over a year and I will be replacing it simply on safe duty cycle.
Thx as always
Thanks for your content dude
Might just save a life with these vidoes. Nice work.
Since you are selling Singing Rock products, you should also offer their harnesses. I have two of them and they are great (I am especially in love with SR Rocket).
I like that they manufacture stress risers into the narrowest part of those carabiners. 100% Would whip
i think a cool test video would be for you to rig up a simple 6to1 MA and a complex 6to1 MA and see if you get the same amount of force from both.
I appreciate how careful you are when choosing which sponsors you work with so you can remain neutral and non biased when testing gear.
you're doing god's work lads
Thanks a lot to clearify what some sort of ...don't allowed using the word here... is getting sold on the internet to (mostly) unexperienced users. Good job warning people out there and thumbs up!
Wow super surprised with those biners. Based on those tests would whip. But like you said contistency is the name of the game in life supporting applications. This company could be legit if they actually got the UIAA cert.
Thanks!
As long as things are nicely packed, you’re good bro. Lol
Sería genial que tengan subtítulos en español !!!! Es un excelente canal !!!
Soooo close to 100k!!!!
Ebay seller be like - “Sir, this product is super good enough. Is that acceptable?”
If by any chance you will visit Germany;
Go to the Battert Rocks in Baden-Baden
It is close to the french Border and there are is plenty of rock-climbing in the region
Excellent!
swivels are often used in tree access climbing between the bridge and rope ascension method. don't know about rock climbing, maybe for gear?
I got two of the steel biners from Amazon. No markings. Hung on one of them low in my harness to see. They seemed fine. Until I tried it with the gate open to experiment. The flex was huge. Didn't open up but flexed outwards a half inch. Scared me and I was 2 feet off the ground.
Wow! I bought this exact swivel set and thought I was very slick for saving some $$ on an already expensive trip to Yosemite. The setup was super good enough for hauling 1-2 days worth of gear. With the piece of mind here, I’m likely to reuse the swivel rather than buy another, but I’ll be changing out the lockers (they were kind of shit anyways, with the sharp edge to the gate and very narrow end to it). Thanks for your continued informational content and efforts, I really appreciate the knowledge provided on this channel.
Friend of mine did some research on some aliexpress biners and found them to be certified and just fine. You just have to do some research with these things.
There are no individual serial numbers or date codes, for arborists CE certification is paramount. I'm a LOLER certified inspector in the UK and I'm seeing a lot of fake PPE kit flooding the market. Climbing kits are inspected and certified every 6 months and rigging kit every 12 months.
The issue isn't if any one of them works - the issue is: do they all work?
I purchased cheap “Chinese” Amazon products which were shit and broke. I think Amazon figured out that most American consumers will choose price over quality, until the object is a lifesaving tool. But then it’s too late. My story, I got my new Ram 3500 dually, dump trailer loaded with decomposed granite (20k lbs) stuck in the mud and my cheap Chinese snatch block exploded under pressure. I now buy quality products for “recovery” purposes OR if I do go through Amazon I just assume it will break. Wish I could load a pic.
SNATCH BLOCK!!
Yes, switched to synthetic Dyneema rope for winch and tow. My 1” tow line rated at 119K lbs. Shout out to Factor55, made in Colorado, I believe.
Hey, I just got back from a trip to the red river gorge, I was wondering if you could make a video talking about how to bolt heavily overhung sport routes, just curious how they do it
awesome vid
Basically if the description/header of the product says “for [laundry list of activities]” you should either not buy it or look into it further or just like not buy it
Only by climbing gear from real outdoor stores that directly carry the products from reputable brands.
If there is an instance of recall, can you get notified from the seller from Amazon? Do these Chinese companies have websites to notify the recall announcement?
More videos like this please
im wondering what kind of force is needed to break a sliding x anchor whit 2 dinema sling
If you’re getting more products from Edelrid I would like the new ECO bulletproof Locking HMS carabiner FG either in the triple or the screw
Also the Ohm 😬
Never cheap out on climbing gear 😁
Those carabiners just look like the shackles Harbour Freight sells.
I miss the drop tower! Anyone else think it would be cool to test purcell prussik slings for trad lead to reduce forces on questionable placements?
That is scary stuff.
SUITABLE FOR EVERY FAMILY OUTDOOR ACTIVITY
I believe it actually said “Suitable for every family outdoor activities”… Super good enough…
i notice all places are just bulk selling random stuff, quantity over quality. and QUANTITY QUANTITY QUANTITY they freakin have.
thx
A few years back, I had to run through our entire stock of 3/8 shackles and toss every single one with a the marking “CHINA”. Somehow a bunch of them got mixed in with ours after an event. Crosby and CM please.
CE rated gear is not necessarily tested by officials. For most products the manufacturer simply sign that they have done everything right!
I would be suspicious of the "CE" rating/marking for 2 reasons. 1) CE ratings are self certified. So technically you can add the CE rating even if it wouldn't meet the requirements. This is only a problem for the manufacturer/seller if the CE the competent national authority requests documentation to prove it meets the specs. 2) Some "CE" markings are not actually CE. They are actually a symbol for China Export. The China Export Mark means that the product was manufactured in China. No registration, testing or auditing is required to use it.
Congratulations, you made a good video, and will likely also be called to the stand in several lawsuits
Have the same swivel. Have to send it to you so you can test it how do I do that
I can buy those exact carabiners at Pricess Auto for $2 each. Imagine the markup on Amazon. I won't touch a carabiner for climbing that is not rated for 25KN.
I assume these will break instantly, amazon is good for some stuff buf not specialty gear.
You should make a HowNot2 tree climbing shirts for us Arborist
ngl steel carabiners do have advantages over the aluminium ones so an 11kn steady rating for steel seems to be useable for most climbs
I like how low they are rated for and these unrated biners probably break more consistently at 20kN. That the manufacture is low balling the breaking point, that should alert you to how shitty they are though
Honestly surprised with how good those carabiners are but yeah I’m not trusting that they would all be that good.
Looks like those knock off metolius biners were super good enough
Do americans not have any standardized Norms? The first thing when checking PPE is to look for the EN numbers...
As an IRATA certified trainer I'm shocked!
BLOOD GHOSTS OF YOUR LINE SHALL BE RELEASE
🤣
At that price I don't think I'd even want those for lightweight non climbing use.
🇦🇷Hey hi great video as always. Let me propose a video topic : Since you are testing shity carabiners, what about those plastic ARMY carabiners... Do they stand what they say they stand...? I'm planning to hang a hammok with them, and NOT2 bring so many metal with me to prevent lighting bolt in the open field, I would like to know if they truly follow theyre technical specifications and so the pros and cons of them... Thanks Martin from Argentina by the way...🇦🇷
Just so you know, glass fiber reinforced nylon is not much weaker than mid grade aluminium, you'll be fine.
@@piciu256 that is hilariously incorrect.
A couple of carabiners will not make any difference when lightning is involved. If you're gonna get hit, not having metal carabiners won't stop the strike, and if you don't get hit, it's not because you didn't have them. Just carry the gear you need and don't camp on a hill in a lightning storm.
@@nikolaihedler8883 Thank you so very much dude... GOD bless...
@@nikolaihedler8883 see tensile strength of PA6 GF30 and compare it to tensile strength of aluminium, a hint- it's stronger than low grade alu! It's much less stiff, but the absolute strength is not much less than higher grade Al, really an amazing material, good enough for a hammock for sure.
I tried to buy some small snatch blocks off the Zon and the moment they loaded up they all froze! Pure garbage!
When's the last time you started contacting marketing agents for camera companies for a complimentary slowmo?
Do you ship to Europe?
It won't stop until there is a major lawsuit. Amazon needs to be sued before things will change.
It is ironic that they all broke over 20kn though!
life is worth it when not clime at all according to carabiners
Crazy that the counterfeit carabiners did better then the ones that came with the “legit kit” lol.
I get what you mean though about trusting your life to a random, shady item.
That would be like somebody paying $700 for a brand new Glock, and getting shipped a $300 Sccy or something🤣
The product might work, yes. But doesn’t come close to reliability, or performance
I'll cheap out on pretty much anything unless my life is on the line. Especially with stuff like carabiners it makes no sense to buy the cheaper ones. I can get Camp Nano 22's for 4,50 euros here so why save 1 euro if it means I'll maybe die?
First off that's a ridiculous price for a swivel.
I use a DMM one on my bridge for tree work,
Lit
Trust CMC rescue Biners for serious work. I broke a reverse collar Black Diamond biner called them they are no longer made as soon as the phone call ended.
These knockoff carabiners (from the end of the video) are probably made in the same factory as some proper brand carabiners, with either their old molds or just failed moldings. It happens with a lot of counterfeit products. Anything that would not pass the original brands QC anymore is just rated lower and sold under a different name to make some profit on it.
I actually doubt this. I'd assumed that most reputable climbing companies keep their manufacturing in house (i.e. in country) to maintain qc. Not saying there is no climbing equipment made in China but more likely that they just setup the tooling in China and rated it lower specifically to address their lack of QC
I don't have evidence from climbing manufacturers, but I've known some people who did outsource their production to China and who saw their product coming back quite soon in other channels.
Things like molds don't have an infinite lifetime, so after Xk products they need to be replaced to keep quality. Those things are quite expensive so often in the down hours they just shift the old ones back in and just produce some lower quality stuff to sell for themselves.
only company I know for sure that makes some of their carabiners in china is CAMP
Not 100% sure but this CE i rather China Export logo, not Conformité Européenne.
They were probably stolen from the camp production line.
lol i love these fake carabiners. keep up the good work
lol i bought that swivel,crap catbinrer , broke at 2000 lbs , here is the thiong Ry, if you read about guys in the late 60s they would fabricate climbing gear from hardware store parts that became standard gear later made with standards