Been waiting two years for a video like this. The sun has been the biggest elephant in the room since the lore community first started building the encyclopedia that exists today. Sol is literally CLOSER when you look at it from the Hinterlands in the Shadowrealm but not one of the major loretubers have focused on that. I think Quelaag and TA mention it in passing but Sol ties together everything: the Giants, Hornsent, Dragons, Marika, Godfrey, Godwyn, the Carians, Elden John and possibly Melina all have sun association.
When other lore tubers say "but this is just the beginning", I continue listening without much change. When *this guy* says it, I raise an eyebrow, and listen closely.
Sunspots on the Avatar seems like a close match for the Pleiades star cluster, which shines 40 times brighter than the sun. It is also in the Taurus constellation - possible connection to the origin of the stone coffins/iconography in the Mohg dynast stone carvings + underground ruins that depicts a bull on many stones. And get this - "Together with the open star cluster of the Hyades, the Pleiades form the Golden Gate of the Ecliptic." Definitely some connections there!
Down the rabbit hole we go, maybe that's the same star cluster Lusat and Azur saw bite the dust in the primeval current, the same star cluster the Greater Will is from. That's why Meytr's tailfingers depict a blackhole in their Microcosm. 😮🎉
@@jonathanhouse4964this also answers what happened to the Greater Will and why it "abandoned" the Lands Between. The GW is dead, or expanded as stars do. The light or messages the GW sent to the LB are thousands of years late, just like the light of the stars we see: those shining stars are mostly gone, but their light travels lightyears to us for years and years despite the start being gone.
I theorize the sun in elden ring is guiding fate like the other stars, leading goldmask to discover perfect order. In support of your theory, note the sunflowers who grow facing the erdtree, a clever pun on the term of sun.
The Fell God is the God of the Sun and ruled over the dragons with the dragon lord Placidusax during the time of the Sun Realm. The Hornsent hate the Fell God so when the Jar Saint Marika said she could defeat him by draining the sun with a tree via photosynthesis bringing in an Age of Plenty they got behind her hence her elevated position in their culture. But her real goal was to become a god. Marika was the Gloom Eyed Queen at this time and the demigods she hunted were the children of the Fell God who inherited shards of the Elden Ring when the Fell God was defeated. She learned how to consume gold and gain immortality from the serpent Eiglay who i think was meant to be her lord. When she ascended at the Gates of Divinity and betrayed the Hornsent by slaughtering every person present for their life energy (or gold) she also betrayed and claimed the gold from the serpents corpse which we see in the trailer and became her own lord. She kept this a secret and lied saying the Serpent betrayed and killed everyone before she killed it which is why the serpent is an enemy of the Erdtree and the Hornsent. The rune of Death was still free at this point and Godfrey killed all who stood in opposition to the Erdtree. Once the wars were over and the Tarnished were banished the world began to fade due to the lack of death in the Lands Between. In an attempt to stop her Age from "dying" the Erdtree of the Age of Plenty was burned, hence why it's corpse is in the Land of Shadows where all death ends up and Leyndell is covered in ash pre Golden Order Erdtree burning, the Land of Shadows were veiled, the rune of Death was sealed, and a new Erdtree of the Golden Order was created when Radagon became Elden Lord to continue to give the illusion the Erdtree is perfect and eternal.
@@teahousereloaded I'm getting that from the smithing stones that say the color of the Sun was drained. Golden sun, golden tree. Call it what you want but the tree somehow drained the sun and became the new source of golden light. Trees take the suns energy in real life. 🤷🏻♂️
@@level1dodo896 We burn the golden erdtree down in the base game but if you choose the ending of perfect order or fracture we see a new golden tree behind us, the new Elden Lord, leading me to believe these are all different trees.
Fascinating implications for the Haligtree and Castle Sol. "Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless... I will never set my eyes upon it now. Your divine Haligtree." It seems that Miquella was planning have the Haligtree follow the Erdtree's footsteps in more ways than one. But despite the blood of Miquella spilled, and the prayers of his followers, the Haligtree would never have been able to swallow the sun because Marika buried the Divine Gateway's existence.
I've been ruminating on this subject for quite some time and I'm really glad to find somebody who put in the work to lay it out. Can't wait for more videos!
Finally sunflower lore. Remember, sun flowers always face the sun. But in elden ring the golden and tarnished sunflowers face the erdtree, the shadow sunflowers face the shadow tree, that is growing from some of the deepest places in game. The abyss in game has grape vines defying gravity and strange root like trees growing upward along with gravestones with no burials, like they grew. You can see these abyssal root/trees are leaking into the lands between and undead grow from them like a shadow vesion of erdtree rebirth. Mostly around churches of marika
I enjoy Sun Realm theories, but I feel this first video has some weaknesses that the second video will benefit from addressing. A big issue is that no one in the Lands Between's history ever speaks of, writes, or otherwise indicates that the sun was without color during the Erdtree's height of power. There's also no apparent concern that the sun getting its strength back from the Erdtree could weaken any forces keeping the Rune of Death's influence at bay either. Something else to consider is that the Wandering Mausoleums indicate the Golden Order believed it could channel power straight from the sun without using the Erdtree. Furthermore, the Japanese description for Lhutel's Spirit Ashes notes that Lhutel's demi-god actually was revived, so the process worked. The TH-camr Last Protagonist has translated this text in the comments section for his short video about Romina's Remembrance, and the TH-camr and translator Lokey Dark Souls has translated this text on his Discord. While you noted that Elden Ring's sun does still have colors like yellow and red, another issue is that the sun doesn't seem to be drained of *any* color by the time Elden Ring takes place. The Erdtree's light seemingly can't be stolen from the sun if the Erdtree still glows while the sun appears to have all of its color intact. Also, the Warming Stone description notes that the sun provides a gentle warmth, not that it ever lost any, and the Sunwarmth Stone name and description never suggest it has an energy now lost to the sun itself, just that it's even closer to the heat of the sun (as experienced from the Lands Between) than the Warming Stones. Another factor is how the Elden Beast's arena implies there are Erdtrees throughout the galaxy, so they might not all have to take energy from a star to be gold. The Erdtrees might thus be naturally gold, akin to how Herba, Cave Moss, etc. are bioluminescent too. For the Scadutree Avatar and Radiant Gold Mask comparison, the Avatar's eyes are in a sunken section, whereas the holes on the Radiant Gold Mask are on a protrusion, and the part you circled at 7:21 actually has one more hole than the Avatar has eyes. The rays of the mask extend from that protrusion as well, making them not the best fit for a sunflower's blossom and outer leaves. Another thing to consider is that Goldmask may have never seen the Scadutree Avatar, as the Land of Shadow could have been sealed before he was born, especially if his ancestors were exiled from the Lands Between. I think it's more likely that Goldmask's namesake mask was fashioned after the Mending Rune of Perfect Order and the normal sunflowers in the Lands Between, which incidentally point toward the Erdtree. The translator Lokey Dark Souls has even mentioned how the kanji used for those flowers in Elden Ring has the term for "sun" swapped out. That might help your theory more than the Scadutree Avatar does, and it wouldn't have to worry about why the Erdtree Avatars don't look like sunflowers if the Erdtree took the sun's power. As for the Somber Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone, Placidusax himself is mostly the color of those stones, as are the ancient dragons, so the color could come naturally to them, or otherwise predate any fall of the Sun Realm. Instead, this draining of color might represent overtaxing the stones and almost putting them into a state of shock, akin to the healing grasses of Demon's Souls, as well as the devastated state of the Scadutree that makes its fragments and sap extremely easy to harvest. This might indicate exploitation and also self-ruination due to greed rather than a shifting power dynamic. It could even reference Miquella's story arc and imply he didn't actually find a greater form of unalloyed gold or anything platinum, but instead was spreading himself thin. Finally, for some general comments on the video itself, you showed footage of a rainstorm at 0:37 , so the sun and almost omnipresent moon were understandably obscured. I feel you can convey your point about the sun having a minor presence better by just comparing its size to the moon. Also, the text for the Blessed Bone Shard disappeared from the screen at 5:02 before you finished reading it. Sorry if this post seems negative, but I feel your ideas would shine better by addressing these points. Thanks for the video!
Loving this, I've been obsessed with the sun and its bizarre movement as well and greatly appreciate any deep dive into its past or function. People generally agree on it having some tie to Farum Azula/ the Dragons (which the Rock Heart definitely helps with) but it's quite difficult to paint a picture beyond that. I've gone down a rabbit hole where I've started to believe the Sun might even be or have been the Crucible, given the connotations with heat, stardust forming life, the Omen set bearing a sun, Crucible armor featuring a circular motif at its center, the general prominence of the sun in the Shadow Lands vs the Lands Between etc. but I also never noticed the root connection/interpretation of the Crucible armor. One of ER's most fun mysteries for sure.
This was a fantastic video. Finally, somebody that talks about the sun in Elden Ring - a topic that, for some reason, nobody in the community ever wanted to address. I really love your theory that the Erdtree is like a parasite, sucking the life out of the sun, and replacing it as the dominant symbol throughout the Lands Between. With all of the evidence that you presented, I’d say you hit the nail on the mark! I actually have my own theory about the sun, which is a theory I held for quite a few years now. I believe that the sun was created by Godwyn the Golden - who I believe is based on Gwyn from Dark Souls - after being given the power of lightning by the dragons and fusing it with his inner golden energy to create golden lightning. Using his newfound power, Godwyn created an orb of golden lightning and sent it far above the clouds to be a source of light and energy for all people. I also believe that Ranni caused the eclipse by placing her moon in front of Godwyn’s sun after having him killed, as a sign of the supremacy of the moon of Caria over the sun of Leyndell. Castle Sol (meaning sun) being related to Godwyn and spirits being related to the eclipse is some of the evidence I have for this theory. But I find your theory to be more interesting and dare I say I’d consider it official lore. I don’t see anything contradicting it and your theory has more strengths than mine due to the existence of the Sun Realm Shield which predates predates any civilisation in the Lands Between. The Scadutree being a parasitic sunflower sounds badass af!
I don't think the eclipse is metaphorical. Go up to Mountaintops and try to find the sun. Take as much time as you need. In spite of its diminished role, the sun is still visible everywhere... except for Mountaintops. And in case you're wondering if it isn't just some graphical error, it has been this way since launch.
I recall seeing the sun rise above Castle Sol in the game. I particularly remember it because I was checking if the sun aligned with Castle Sol's entrance to match the Sun Realm Shield, but the sun was a bit to the left of the front gate when facing the castle from the outside. The sun is also visible on Altus Plateau, which is normally cloudy, but generally can only be seen during the morning.
@@nightscout9979 Question, did you see the sun, or did you see a reflection? Because there's still a light source that casts light up there in the skybox. So you can see things like a highlight coming off the water etc. But the disk of the sun is not visible. I've checked more than once over the years. Unless this is some platform specific issue, it's not there.
@@rainbowkrampus It was the sun, not a vague light source. The sun can be a really rare sight at times in some places. For example, someone on TH-cam has a video of them filming the weather at Altus from the Grand Lift of Dectus for an hour, and the sun is only visible for a very brief period of time, but it's in the thumbnail and very bright while it's visible. To my knowledge, this hasn't been changed in a patch.
Finally! Someone as sunpilled as me 😆 This was posted at the perfect time. I've been having trouble lately wondering how the Erdtree's stolen essence and the Sun exist at the same time but I think you've just provided an answer that resolves that issue for me, so thank you. I'll definitely get back to my script later for my Sun video. When I have the time, I'll share some Sun stuff in the comments for everyone to chew on as well
I've also had the thought that the black moon drained the sun. The color black itself has that property. The thing that has stumped me is how that energy was reflected, and to where exactly. Something silver perhaps-but this is speculation on top of speculation, but maybe someone smarter than me is able to figure something out. Edit- the half wheel mark of the centipede, when joined with the other half, looks suspiciously like that of an eclipse. The death prince knight helmet piece is adorned with what looks like an eclipse as well, so all this makes me think an eclipse has some function related to destined death. I'd like to point out as well that the cape of the death knight (only the boss) has a unique color scheme comprised of black and silver. The knight himself is able to drain the tarnished' hp. Another matter- the eternal darkness spell, a sorcery from the eternal city, is stated to be "the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest." I interpret this as relating to the transgression the nox committed against the greater will, and i wonder if it has anything to do with the blackmoon, and if so then perhaps the blackmoon did have absorbitive properties. Ranni's ending shows a moon, and at its center matter is being drawn towards it. There's probably a few stuff I'm forgetting but I hope I added some decent wood to your fire.
@@G4meplus Oh thank you! I've been sick, so I haven't put anything out yet, but I'm working really hard on the script for video 2 right now about the Crucible.
The Erdtree's bark is revealed to be brown once Maliketh is defeated, and the interior bark starts glowing gold in the "Mend the Elden Ring" endings, so the Erdtree is apparently solid and just naturally bioluminescent. It wouldn't be the only plant to produce light in Elden Ring either, since things like the Herba and Cave Moss are noted as doing so as well.
I like this idea. It certainly matches Marika's reputation as a thief of the power of others. If Farum Azula was the capital of the former Sun Realm, I wonder if the meteor strike that destroyed it was intended to release the solar power within it for the Erd Tree to steal.
2:30 the entire thing with this theory is its implied the map is much bigger than we see, the Lands between are supposed to be a continent so lands like Liurnia, Limgrave, Caelid and the Land of Shadow before it was split from the continent and hidden away all wouldn’t have been able to see the Erdtree or feel its affects
I wonder if a concession made for there to be peace between Leyndell and the Ancient Dragons was the relinquishing of some grace from Erdtree back to the Sun
There is a sun like spot you can see in Elden Ring, I've seen it once near jarburg, i screen shot it on my ps4, but I'm sure it's not a sun, but the light source for day and night cycle in elden ring.
i really wish we had more item descriptions or nps talk aboit the eclipse, it seems like such a cataclysmic event yet it's rare to see information about it. i have a feeling information surrounding the eclipse is a victim of being erased during marika's crusade once she ascendes to godhood. much like how victors of wartimes control the history of the event, i think marika and her kin may have erased this part of history, burnt it even.
I assume the eclipsed sun isn't an actual eclipse of the sun in the lands between, but just an outer star "resembling" an eclipsed sun, with the ability of keeping the rune of death from killing the soulless bodies of godwyn and the soulless princes
Maybe try to explain why some NPCs appear not to be able to see the erdtree if it still shines with the power of the sun. It is said the erdtree is more a symbol or illusion of faith. There's evidence it's been burned before and you can see it's real nature when you enter it.
nah they can see it, that was disproven. if you freecam to the top of the erdtree there is visible large dead brown limbs with golden glowing vines creeping up that become the solid gold covering
Character dialogue indicates that some Tarnished can no longer see the guidance of Grace, the golden beams emitted from some Sites of Grace. The characters never say or imply they can't see Grace at all, nor are Erdtree incantations ever said or implied to have effects like the night sorceries to anyone without Grace.
Sorry to get off topic but I always wondered why the servants of the Soulless Demi-gods wanted to keep Destined Death at bay. I would think that they would be hoping Destined Death finishes the job to eliminate the contradiction in the Golden Order (AKA Living in death) and release their leiges from their current state.
They worship these half dead husks, and as such, worship the outer star that keeps the rune of death from finishing the job and killing these living bodies with dead souls
The demi-gods in the Wandering Mausoleums seem to have been killed in both body and soul, so the Golden Order is aiming to resurrect both aspects of them.
@@nightscout9979 I sincerely intend no offense but that makes zero sense. You're saying they're dead body and soul but for some reason rather than just call them dead like everything else that is dead body and soul they are calling them soulless. That makes no sense. If they are dead in body and soul then what do they have to fear from Destined Death, they are already completely destroyed. This means the headless servants are standing guard to ward of Destined Death, which apparently has already completely killed the body and soul of those particular demi gods. Again it makes no sense. I did however have someone else explain it elsewhere that did clear things up a little though I'm not completely sold. Apparently, we should read it as they are dead in soul like Godwyn and they are in the Walking Mausoleums to keep them from becoming a vector for Death Root. They are being guarded by their servants in the hopes that should the Order be properly restored there might be something that can be done for their fallen masters to restore them to life. Should Destined Death find them before that can happen then their masters will be lost forever, having been killed body and soul.
Why did it take this long, For a video to be made about this? Mad? I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. This community thinks its smarter than it really is, And it's insulting
Good video, but as often with real-world analogies made by the ER community, the information about real-life sun gods is a little off. Storm gods, not sun gods, tend to be the highest in all world pantheons. Yahweh, Jupiter/Zeus, Ukko, Indra, possibly Marduk, possibly Thor (in older forms of Babylonian & Germanic traditions, respectively). Some religions place the sun god at the top, notably Japan with Amaterasu & the Aztecs with Huitzilopochtli, but they are in the minority -- and originally the Aztec solar god was much less prominent, only taking pride of place because he was patron of the Mexica, who came to rule the Empire. The patron god of the ruling house/tribe tends to become the highest god in more developed civilisations. If we see civilisation as essentially agricultural, it makes more sense that the storm/rain god would be at the top, as (typically) he brings the rains that make the soil bring forth fruit. Rain is semen, soil is uterus. I do think that Marika represents a mixture of gold/warmth/sun and fertility/soil, but also night-themes, being a Numen and related to the Eternal Cities. She's like a mix of Apollo, Odin/Mercury, Amaterasu, and Demeter.
I assume that in elden ring, stars are basically "intelligence stat" bbasedouter gods, while the outer gods are "faith stat" based, this tells us that the blood star and formless mother are different entities, the eclipsed sun is apparently one of those outer stars that may not even represent the lands between' sun, but rather just being a star "resembling" an eclipsed sun, with this star "keeping destined death at bay" basically meaning it simply protects the deathroot beings like godwyn and the soulless princes by simply keeping these soulless duskborn soulless bodies with dead souls from dying in body too, so the eclipsed sun is just the undead version of the bloodstar which supports thorn and blood sorceries, it being an outer star rather than an outer god can also tie it to the age of the stars ending, implying ranni's order would coexist with the undead
Metyr deals both magic and holy damage, and the Staff of the Great Beyond can cast both sorceries and incantations, so this is probably another Demon's Souls scenario where each path is simply a branch from the same source.
I think erdtree burial was an attempt to keep the erdtree alive after destined death was sealed away. After all, the erdtree was at its most prosperous in a time of massive war across the lands between when it was constantly being fed the runes of great warriors
It's a possibility but, I am leaning more towards a more scientific explanation. specifically, the big bang. I already made a video explaining that theory called the cosmology of Elden Ring.
The sun lore is highly underrated
Been waiting two years for a video like this. The sun has been the biggest elephant in the room since the lore community first started building the encyclopedia that exists today. Sol is literally CLOSER when you look at it from the Hinterlands in the Shadowrealm but not one of the major loretubers have focused on that. I think Quelaag and TA mention it in passing but Sol ties together everything: the Giants, Hornsent, Dragons, Marika, Godfrey, Godwyn, the Carians, Elden John and possibly Melina all have sun association.
When other lore tubers say "but this is just the beginning", I continue listening without much change. When *this guy* says it, I raise an eyebrow, and listen closely.
Sunspots on the Avatar seems like a close match for the Pleiades star cluster, which shines 40 times brighter than the sun. It is also in the Taurus constellation - possible connection to the origin of the stone coffins/iconography in the Mohg dynast stone carvings + underground ruins that depicts a bull on many stones. And get this - "Together with the open star cluster of the Hyades, the Pleiades form the Golden Gate of the Ecliptic." Definitely some connections there!
Down the rabbit hole we go, maybe that's the same star cluster Lusat and Azur saw bite the dust in the primeval current, the same star cluster the Greater Will is from. That's why Meytr's tailfingers depict a blackhole in their Microcosm. 😮🎉
@@jonathanhouse4964this also answers what happened to the Greater Will and why it "abandoned" the Lands Between. The GW is dead, or expanded as stars do. The light or messages the GW sent to the LB are thousands of years late, just like the light of the stars we see: those shining stars are mostly gone, but their light travels lightyears to us for years and years despite the start being gone.
We came from the plieadies and myizaki has known it for 30 years.
@@RyanMathews-ld7hiok schizo
Check my elden ring cosmology video, you will really like it.
I theorize the sun in elden ring is guiding fate like the other stars, leading goldmask to discover perfect order. In support of your theory, note the sunflowers who grow facing the erdtree, a clever pun on the term of sun.
The Fell God is the God of the Sun and ruled over the dragons with the dragon lord Placidusax during the time of the Sun Realm.
The Hornsent hate the Fell God so when the Jar Saint Marika said she could defeat him by draining the sun with a tree via photosynthesis bringing in an Age of Plenty they got behind her hence her elevated position in their culture. But her real goal was to become a god.
Marika was the Gloom Eyed Queen at this time and the demigods she hunted were the children of the Fell God who inherited shards of the Elden Ring when the Fell God was defeated. She learned how to consume gold and gain immortality from the serpent Eiglay who i think was meant to be her lord. When she ascended at the Gates of Divinity and betrayed the Hornsent by slaughtering every person present for their life energy (or gold) she also betrayed and claimed the gold from the serpents corpse which we see in the trailer and became her own lord.
She kept this a secret and lied saying the Serpent betrayed and killed everyone before she killed it which is why the serpent is an enemy of the Erdtree and the Hornsent.
The rune of Death was still free at this point and Godfrey killed all who stood in opposition to the Erdtree. Once the wars were over and the Tarnished were banished the world began to fade due to the lack of death in the Lands Between. In an attempt to stop her Age from "dying" the Erdtree of the Age of Plenty was burned, hence why it's corpse is in the Land of Shadows where all death ends up and Leyndell is covered in ash pre Golden Order Erdtree burning, the Land of Shadows were veiled, the rune of Death was sealed, and a new Erdtree of the Golden Order was created when Radagon became Elden Lord to continue to give the illusion the Erdtree is perfect and eternal.
This actually might be the most concise summary of story of Elden Ring I have ever seen. Simple and elegant. Love it. It makes a lot of sense.
The photosynthesis thing is bs, but the rest is 100% bullseye.
Dung Eater is on the right track, that’s why he’s so hated.
@@teahousereloaded I'm getting that from the smithing stones that say the color of the Sun was drained. Golden sun, golden tree. Call it what you want but the tree somehow drained the sun and became the new source of golden light. Trees take the suns energy in real life. 🤷🏻♂️
I’ve always held that the Scadutree is the OG tree while the Erdtree is akin to a remembrance of the original tree
@@level1dodo896 We burn the golden erdtree down in the base game but if you choose the ending of perfect order or fracture we see a new golden tree behind us, the new Elden Lord, leading me to believe these are all different trees.
Fascinating implications for the Haligtree and Castle Sol.
"Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless... I will never set my eyes upon it now. Your divine Haligtree."
It seems that Miquella was planning have the Haligtree follow the Erdtree's footsteps in more ways than one. But despite the blood of Miquella spilled, and the prayers of his followers, the Haligtree would never have been able to swallow the sun because Marika buried the Divine Gateway's existence.
I've been ruminating on this subject for quite some time and I'm really glad to find somebody who put in the work to lay it out. Can't wait for more videos!
Finally sunflower lore. Remember, sun flowers always face the sun. But in elden ring the golden and tarnished sunflowers face the erdtree, the shadow sunflowers face the shadow tree, that is growing from some of the deepest places in game. The abyss in game has grape vines defying gravity and strange root like trees growing upward along with gravestones with no burials, like they grew. You can see these abyssal root/trees are leaking into the lands between and undead grow from them like a shadow vesion of erdtree rebirth. Mostly around churches of marika
I enjoy Sun Realm theories, but I feel this first video has some weaknesses that the second video will benefit from addressing. A big issue is that no one in the Lands Between's history ever speaks of, writes, or otherwise indicates that the sun was without color during the Erdtree's height of power. There's also no apparent concern that the sun getting its strength back from the Erdtree could weaken any forces keeping the Rune of Death's influence at bay either.
Something else to consider is that the Wandering Mausoleums indicate the Golden Order believed it could channel power straight from the sun without using the Erdtree. Furthermore, the Japanese description for Lhutel's Spirit Ashes notes that Lhutel's demi-god actually was revived, so the process worked. The TH-camr Last Protagonist has translated this text in the comments section for his short video about Romina's Remembrance, and the TH-camr and translator Lokey Dark Souls has translated this text on his Discord.
While you noted that Elden Ring's sun does still have colors like yellow and red, another issue is that the sun doesn't seem to be drained of *any* color by the time Elden Ring takes place. The Erdtree's light seemingly can't be stolen from the sun if the Erdtree still glows while the sun appears to have all of its color intact. Also, the Warming Stone description notes that the sun provides a gentle warmth, not that it ever lost any, and the Sunwarmth Stone name and description never suggest it has an energy now lost to the sun itself, just that it's even closer to the heat of the sun (as experienced from the Lands Between) than the Warming Stones.
Another factor is how the Elden Beast's arena implies there are Erdtrees throughout the galaxy, so they might not all have to take energy from a star to be gold. The Erdtrees might thus be naturally gold, akin to how Herba, Cave Moss, etc. are bioluminescent too.
For the Scadutree Avatar and Radiant Gold Mask comparison, the Avatar's eyes are in a sunken section, whereas the holes on the Radiant Gold Mask are on a protrusion, and the part you circled at 7:21 actually has one more hole than the Avatar has eyes. The rays of the mask extend from that protrusion as well, making them not the best fit for a sunflower's blossom and outer leaves. Another thing to consider is that Goldmask may have never seen the Scadutree Avatar, as the Land of Shadow could have been sealed before he was born, especially if his ancestors were exiled from the Lands Between.
I think it's more likely that Goldmask's namesake mask was fashioned after the Mending Rune of Perfect Order and the normal sunflowers in the Lands Between, which incidentally point toward the Erdtree. The translator Lokey Dark Souls has even mentioned how the kanji used for those flowers in Elden Ring has the term for "sun" swapped out. That might help your theory more than the Scadutree Avatar does, and it wouldn't have to worry about why the Erdtree Avatars don't look like sunflowers if the Erdtree took the sun's power.
As for the Somber Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone, Placidusax himself is mostly the color of those stones, as are the ancient dragons, so the color could come naturally to them, or otherwise predate any fall of the Sun Realm. Instead, this draining of color might represent overtaxing the stones and almost putting them into a state of shock, akin to the healing grasses of Demon's Souls, as well as the devastated state of the Scadutree that makes its fragments and sap extremely easy to harvest. This might indicate exploitation and also self-ruination due to greed rather than a shifting power dynamic. It could even reference Miquella's story arc and imply he didn't actually find a greater form of unalloyed gold or anything platinum, but instead was spreading himself thin.
Finally, for some general comments on the video itself, you showed footage of a rainstorm at 0:37 , so the sun and almost omnipresent moon were understandably obscured. I feel you can convey your point about the sun having a minor presence better by just comparing its size to the moon. Also, the text for the Blessed Bone Shard disappeared from the screen at 5:02 before you finished reading it.
Sorry if this post seems negative, but I feel your ideas would shine better by addressing these points. Thanks for the video!
Loving this, I've been obsessed with the sun and its bizarre movement as well and greatly appreciate any deep dive into its past or function. People generally agree on it having some tie to Farum Azula/ the Dragons (which the Rock Heart definitely helps with) but it's quite difficult to paint a picture beyond that. I've gone down a rabbit hole where I've started to believe the Sun might even be or have been the Crucible, given the connotations with heat, stardust forming life, the Omen set bearing a sun, Crucible armor featuring a circular motif at its center, the general prominence of the sun in the Shadow Lands vs the Lands Between etc. but I also never noticed the root connection/interpretation of the Crucible armor. One of ER's most fun mysteries for sure.
This was a fantastic video. Finally, somebody that talks about the sun in Elden Ring - a topic that, for some reason, nobody in the community ever wanted to address. I really love your theory that the Erdtree is like a parasite, sucking the life out of the sun, and replacing it as the dominant symbol throughout the Lands Between. With all of the evidence that you presented, I’d say you hit the nail on the mark!
I actually have my own theory about the sun, which is a theory I held for quite a few years now. I believe that the sun was created by Godwyn the Golden - who I believe is based on Gwyn from Dark Souls - after being given the power of lightning by the dragons and fusing it with his inner golden energy to create golden lightning. Using his newfound power, Godwyn created an orb of golden lightning and sent it far above the clouds to be a source of light and energy for all people. I also believe that Ranni caused the eclipse by placing her moon in front of Godwyn’s sun after having him killed, as a sign of the supremacy of the moon of Caria over the sun of Leyndell. Castle Sol (meaning sun) being related to Godwyn and spirits being related to the eclipse is some of the evidence I have for this theory.
But I find your theory to be more interesting and dare I say I’d consider it official lore. I don’t see anything contradicting it and your theory has more strengths than mine due to the existence of the Sun Realm Shield which predates predates any civilisation in the Lands Between. The Scadutree being a parasitic sunflower sounds badass af!
I don't think the eclipse is metaphorical. Go up to Mountaintops and try to find the sun. Take as much time as you need.
In spite of its diminished role, the sun is still visible everywhere... except for Mountaintops. And in case you're wondering if it isn't just some graphical error, it has been this way since launch.
I recall seeing the sun rise above Castle Sol in the game. I particularly remember it because I was checking if the sun aligned with Castle Sol's entrance to match the Sun Realm Shield, but the sun was a bit to the left of the front gate when facing the castle from the outside. The sun is also visible on Altus Plateau, which is normally cloudy, but generally can only be seen during the morning.
@@nightscout9979 Question, did you see the sun, or did you see a reflection?
Because there's still a light source that casts light up there in the skybox. So you can see things like a highlight coming off the water etc. But the disk of the sun is not visible. I've checked more than once over the years. Unless this is some platform specific issue, it's not there.
@@rainbowkrampus It was the sun, not a vague light source. The sun can be a really rare sight at times in some places. For example, someone on TH-cam has a video of them filming the weather at Altus from the Grand Lift of Dectus for an hour, and the sun is only visible for a very brief period of time, but it's in the thumbnail and very bright while it's visible. To my knowledge, this hasn't been changed in a patch.
The age of dragons is actually confusing because of the statue in Malkeths Arena. Wolves also imply the presence of the Two Fingers.
Hopefully my next video will clear some of the mysteries, it will be shocking though.
Finally! Someone as sunpilled as me 😆
This was posted at the perfect time. I've been having trouble lately wondering how the Erdtree's stolen essence and the Sun exist at the same time but I think you've just provided an answer that resolves that issue for me, so thank you. I'll definitely get back to my script later for my Sun video.
When I have the time, I'll share some Sun stuff in the comments for everyone to chew on as well
I've also had the thought that the black moon drained the sun. The color black itself has that property. The thing that has stumped me is how that energy was reflected, and to where exactly. Something silver perhaps-but this is speculation on top of speculation, but maybe someone smarter than me is able to figure something out.
Edit- the half wheel mark of the centipede, when joined with the other half, looks suspiciously like that of an eclipse. The death prince knight helmet piece is adorned with what looks like an eclipse as well, so all this makes me think an eclipse has some function related to destined death. I'd like to point out as well that the cape of the death knight (only the boss) has a unique color scheme comprised of black and silver. The knight himself is able to drain the tarnished' hp.
Another matter- the eternal darkness spell, a sorcery from the eternal city, is stated to be "the despair that brought about its ruin made manifest."
I interpret this as relating to the transgression the nox committed against the greater will, and i wonder if it has anything to do with the blackmoon, and if so then perhaps the blackmoon did have absorbitive properties.
Ranni's ending shows a moon, and at its center matter is being drawn towards it.
There's probably a few stuff I'm forgetting but I hope I added some decent wood to your fire.
Hey, I actually watched your first video a while ago, it was great ❤️
@@G4meplus Oh thank you! I've been sick, so I haven't put anything out yet, but I'm working really hard on the script for video 2 right now about the Crucible.
The current golden Erdtree is an illusion, it is a remembrance of the Scadutree or what ever it was before it became twisted
The Erdtree's bark is revealed to be brown once Maliketh is defeated, and the interior bark starts glowing gold in the "Mend the Elden Ring" endings, so the Erdtree is apparently solid and just naturally bioluminescent. It wouldn't be the only plant to produce light in Elden Ring either, since things like the Herba and Cave Moss are noted as doing so as well.
PRAISE THE SUN
I like this idea. It certainly matches Marika's reputation as a thief of the power of others. If Farum Azula was the capital of the former Sun Realm, I wonder if the meteor strike that destroyed it was intended to release the solar power within it for the Erd Tree to steal.
That was a really good video. Looking forward to your next one
Goldmask’s ‘Mask’ allows him to visualize the eclipse at any given moment(through his perspective).
Love it just in time for my Sun Realm build
goldmasks mask is also the occult symbol
برافو عليك! فيديوهاتك تحفة. أنا من أشد المعجبين بيك.
شكرا يا صديقي ❤️
2:30 the entire thing with this theory is its implied the map is much bigger than we see, the Lands between are supposed to be a continent so lands like Liurnia, Limgrave, Caelid and the Land of Shadow before it was split from the continent and hidden away all wouldn’t have been able to see the Erdtree or feel its affects
Great video i fo belive as well that eclipse happend and miquela tried to mimic it but he couldn't cause its not the same sun
I wonder if a concession made for there to be peace between Leyndell and the Ancient Dragons was the relinquishing of some grace from Erdtree back to the Sun
There is a sun like spot you can see in Elden Ring, I've seen it once near jarburg, i screen shot it on my ps4, but I'm sure it's not a sun, but the light source for day and night cycle in elden ring.
Day and night cycle man, also light pollution
i had same thoughts and i feel like Marika broke all the rules of the becoming a god
all the shadow sunflowers fave down except those by the big bowl
i really wish we had more item descriptions or nps talk aboit the eclipse, it seems like such a cataclysmic event yet it's rare to see information about it. i have a feeling information surrounding the eclipse is a victim of being erased during marika's crusade once she ascendes to godhood. much like how victors of wartimes control the history of the event, i think marika and her kin may have erased this part of history, burnt it even.
I assume the eclipsed sun isn't an actual eclipse of the sun in the lands between, but just an outer star "resembling" an eclipsed sun, with the ability of keeping the rune of death from killing the soulless bodies of godwyn and the soulless princes
Do you think that this sun god is the missing dragon’s lord who he longs too return
My next video will go over that point entirely, it's gonna be shocking though.
Maybe try to explain why some NPCs appear not to be able to see the erdtree if it still shines with the power of the sun. It is said the erdtree is more a symbol or illusion of faith. There's evidence it's been burned before and you can see it's real nature when you enter it.
nah they can see it, that was disproven. if you freecam to the top of the erdtree there is visible large dead brown limbs with golden glowing vines creeping up that become the solid gold covering
so even if they cant see the gold they can still see the brown of the original erdtree before the first burning that put ash in leyndell
Character dialogue indicates that some Tarnished can no longer see the guidance of Grace, the golden beams emitted from some Sites of Grace. The characters never say or imply they can't see Grace at all, nor are Erdtree incantations ever said or implied to have effects like the night sorceries to anyone without Grace.
Your video reminds me of Telperion and Laurelin, the silver and gold tress of Tolkien's Legendarium.
Really wanted to add the two trees of valinor to the video but, didn't want to confuse some people.
The sun realm is Lordran
Interesting take
Thishit aint held by gravity its by the sheer force of atracction from myazaki massive balls
I wonder whether that was George R. R. Martin throwing in a jab at Tolkien's Age of the Trees in the Silmarillion
Really wanted to add the two trees of valinor to the video but, didn't want to confuse some people.
Great video! ❤
Well...knowing the Erdtree is basically a parasitic being sent by an eldritch horror, it's no wonder why it can drain the sun
Sorry to get off topic but I always wondered why the servants of the Soulless Demi-gods wanted to keep Destined Death at bay. I would think that they would be hoping Destined Death finishes the job to eliminate the contradiction in the Golden Order (AKA Living in death) and release their leiges from their current state.
They worship these half dead husks, and as such, worship the outer star that keeps the rune of death from finishing the job and killing these living bodies with dead souls
The demi-gods in the Wandering Mausoleums seem to have been killed in both body and soul, so the Golden Order is aiming to resurrect both aspects of them.
@@nightscout9979 Then why call them Soulless?
@@Writh811 Their souls were killed as well, seemingly making their condition more severe than the norm.
@@nightscout9979 I sincerely intend no offense but that makes zero sense. You're saying they're dead body and soul but for some reason rather than just call them dead like everything else that is dead body and soul they are calling them soulless. That makes no sense. If they are dead in body and soul then what do they have to fear from Destined Death, they are already completely destroyed. This means the headless servants are standing guard to ward of Destined Death, which apparently has already completely killed the body and soul of those particular demi gods. Again it makes no sense.
I did however have someone else explain it elsewhere that did clear things up a little though I'm not completely sold. Apparently, we should read it as they are dead in soul like Godwyn and they are in the Walking Mausoleums to keep them from becoming a vector for Death Root. They are being guarded by their servants in the hopes that should the Order be properly restored there might be something that can be done for their fallen masters to restore them to life. Should Destined Death find them before that can happen then their masters will be lost forever, having been killed body and soul.
Why did it take this long, For a video to be made about this?
Mad? I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. This community thinks its smarter than it really is, And it's insulting
Good video, but as often with real-world analogies made by the ER community, the information about real-life sun gods is a little off.
Storm gods, not sun gods, tend to be the highest in all world pantheons. Yahweh, Jupiter/Zeus, Ukko, Indra, possibly Marduk, possibly Thor (in older forms of Babylonian & Germanic traditions, respectively). Some religions place the sun god at the top, notably Japan with Amaterasu & the Aztecs with Huitzilopochtli, but they are in the minority -- and originally the Aztec solar god was much less prominent, only taking pride of place because he was patron of the Mexica, who came to rule the Empire. The patron god of the ruling house/tribe tends to become the highest god in more developed civilisations.
If we see civilisation as essentially agricultural, it makes more sense that the storm/rain god would be at the top, as (typically) he brings the rains that make the soil bring forth fruit. Rain is semen, soil is uterus.
I do think that Marika represents a mixture of gold/warmth/sun and fertility/soil, but also night-themes, being a Numen and related to the Eternal Cities. She's like a mix of Apollo, Odin/Mercury, Amaterasu, and Demeter.
Wow, Ukko getting some recognition? I'm impressed.
@@wispfire2545 Luv me comparative mythologies!
Turn the mask 90 degrees and then overlay the sunflower over the cracks, the dots line up with it 👉😎👉
Wow🎉u figured it out
I assume that in elden ring, stars are basically "intelligence stat" bbasedouter gods, while the outer gods are "faith stat" based, this tells us that the blood star and formless mother are different entities, the eclipsed sun is apparently one of those outer stars that may not even represent the lands between' sun, but rather just being a star "resembling" an eclipsed sun, with this star "keeping destined death at bay" basically meaning it simply protects the deathroot beings like godwyn and the soulless princes by simply keeping these soulless duskborn soulless bodies with dead souls from dying in body too, so the eclipsed sun is just the undead version of the bloodstar which supports thorn and blood sorceries, it being an outer star rather than an outer god can also tie it to the age of the stars ending, implying ranni's order would coexist with the undead
Metyr deals both magic and holy damage, and the Staff of the Great Beyond can cast both sorceries and incantations, so this is probably another Demon's Souls scenario where each path is simply a branch from the same source.
What if the erdtree burial was actually an attempt to turn the erdtree into a gate of divinity?
You might be onto something
I think erdtree burial was an attempt to keep the erdtree alive after destined death was sealed away. After all, the erdtree was at its most prosperous in a time of massive war across the lands between when it was constantly being fed the runes of great warriors
I dont need a Sun god because I have a Son God.
So Marika used the Erdtree as a Dyson Sphere of the life giving sun
"And so, what was borrowed must be returned."
Could it be that by "the one great" Hyetta was speaking of simply the sun?
It's a possibility but, I am leaning more towards a more scientific explanation. specifically, the big bang.
I already made a video explaining that theory called the cosmology of Elden Ring.
So he was trying to eclipse the sun with the halig tree. Not a moon
I think he was trying to put radahn's soul in godwyn's body, but changed the plan to turn mohg into the vessel instead
🤦 The Erdtree IS the sun.
There's a sun in the sky in Elden Ring, not connected to the Erdtree