5:00 I don't think Shrek is about two people coming together even though they're different. Throughout the movie we only learn more and more that they're exactly the same--from humour, disgusting mannerisms & eventually even looks. But due to their appearances society views them both very differently. Shrek learns how not to let the opinions of others define him, and Fiona also learns to embrace her Ogre side and not worry about what society thinks.
@@danwells9305 she doesn't change to be with him. The curse changed her, then true loves first kiss doesn't changer her, because it doesn't matter. there are multiple messages in the movie and the one that says looks don't matter would be undercut significantly more if she had changed back to being pretty. Also, Shrek is not like bee movie or the prequels, it was praised by critics and made half a billion worldwide at the box office, it was always loved.
@@joshpaulsen5601 Yes, I don't think it is comparable to, say, the ending of Grease. Her ogre form isn't less "her" than her human form, and Shrek was going to marry her either way.
I find the reflexion of Dan about how people under 35 cannot afford a good work-life balance very interesting, because it is very true. I am a millenial and the world has been on the edge of collapse for my entire adult life. I became an adult and started my career in 2008. From one year to the next one the prospect of my future went from bright to grim to very dark, with the consequtive 2011-2013 depressions, etc. Then I was scheduled to finish my phd on May 2020, but ups, it seems that it won't happen because of covid. I had to delay it for year. And then another year to find a work because everything has been closed. When the generation of my parents talk about their life, I am in utter disbelieve. I just cannot believe that my parents could buy their house in the first beach line with the help of savings of my grandparents, who were school teachers. My friends who are teachers have to live 3 together in an apartment to afford rent. We are the first generation that is going to, on average, have a worse standard of living than the previous one when accounting for inflation and all of that, and I think that that is a huge line between genX and millenials. And, somehow, we are still seeing as the "spoiled generation". It is honestly quite frustrating.
I look at this way to still the disappointment; we're still spoiled compared to people in poor parts of the world outside the West. Trust me, I've been to many countries all over the world and seen six person families living in wooden shacks, dirt floor, no kitchen save a fire, perhaps at worst; in a slum. Then you talk to the kids who have no prospect of education, no travel, don't even know the names of neighbouring countries. What they do is work, for the family. And the astounding part is; more often than not, they are happier than we are. They still want, and deserve, better quality of life though, everyone does. So yeah, it sucks, but then the West attained it's high standards of living precisely at the expense of poorer peoples, so it's coming back to bite the West in the ass. The elite don't care though, they think they're set for whatever to come. But those who hoard wealth and luxury with no regard, they shall suffer the greatest loss.
The worst part is being told we are ruining and destroying society while our generation has literally 0 influence in government. The Boomers (and some gen X) still have a death grip on our country and continue to enrich themselves even as they die off, at the cost of all younger generations.
For some reason when you started talking about hair bands and rock bands a picture of Brandon with a Mullet came into my head and now it won’t go away😂😂😂
13:29 Dan: "In my experience, a lot of nerds, the people in advanced classes in school, people who were very into classical music were also into metal at some point or to some degree." I don't believe I have been so called out in my entire life.
This one hits so close it hurts. The other truth is that every guitarist who doesn't stick with metal will start playing either blues or jazz depending on the metal bands they liked.
Generation vs Geography would be an interesting study. I’m a half generation younger than Dan and Brandon, but my rural Millennial existence was pretty much their Gen-X experience based on this discussion. We always joked we were twenty years behind the rest of the world where I’m from, but apparently the joke was on us.
As an "old person" (61), it's entertaining to listen to every generation go through this sort of "kids these days" conversation. I'm sure it was just as entertaining for every generation before me. FWIW, I'm not frightened by tech. Of course I started programming in 1975, bought my first computer and ran a computer store in the '80s, and have worked on computers (and played on computers) for decades. So there's that. I'm pretty sure that every generation since the advent of age-sorted schooling has gone through "My parents just don't understand!" (Which often is actually, "Oh, sonny, I understand. I just don't have much sympathy.")
When I watched Bee Movie as a kid, I kept going, "What is going on?" However, I also felt the same watching Seinfeld as a kid so I think it was intentional. haha
43:29 is the moment of sheer delight from Brandon when his evil plot to torment his poor assistant is revealed 43:33 is when he started to feel bad about it lol
I love this. I'm an Xennial (80), but I relate more to the Gen X side in a lot of ways. My parents were older boomers and I listened to a lot of Motown until the mid 90s when I started branching out to more modern music. I think there certainly is something to have an analog childhood and digital adolescence. I was a kid in the 80s and we had a PC in 85, but it was very rudimentary. We got AOL at home when I was 14 and that changed everything. I will say that my dad is a boomer, but he was always very good with computers. He knew how to swap hard drives and set up the computers that we got (mom, on the other hand, is a stereotypical boomer when it comes to computers). Neither of them are very good with social media, however.
Born in '73, I always felt I had much more in common with people born between roughly 72 and 82 than people born 1970 and before. It has really always felt that I came just after a balancing point and those older Gen Xers were nothing like me.
My friend and I came across a lady with a flat tire on her truck near my house one night and decided to help her. It's slightly embarrassing to admit that after 45 minutes of two engineers trying to figure out how to detach the tire from the hanging spindle under the truck. I finally opened up a youtube video on my phone and were informed that all you had to do was rotate it 90 degrees and slip it though the wheel hub of the spare tire. Neither of us had ever actually needed to change a tire before and were never directly taught how to do so. To be fair we had some debates on how the spring mechanism would allow it to detach from the wire spool along the top. And it seemed like we just weren't hitting the "detach button" hard enough. But either way it was still embarrassing and caused me to groan when we figured it out.
I made fighting games and Choose Your Own Adventure games in LogoWriter (Turtle). I bought my own graph paper and coded games ON PAPER during class (usually a class I should have been paying attention to), debug it by hand, and as soon as we had Computer Lab I'd type out the code and run it a few times to test it out. Gah. I miss those days.
The real reason behind Bee Movie being a significant movie in popular culture is the fact that posting the entire Bee Movie script as a copypasta became a huge meme
Really? I just graduated last year with a degree in Comp Sci, we did multiple classes using Python and I had never heard of the turtle thing until this video
Well, I think I fit reasonably well in this classification, but I'm a teensy bit older (1971) First album owned (cassette tape copied from a friend's brother): "Back in Black" - AC/DC First album purchased (cassette): "Blue Sky Mining" - Midnight Oil First CD purchased: "Violator" - Depeche Mode
The "prefer phone calls to texts" changed, IMO, when our phones got real keyboards. Plus I've always hated phone calls... it's an immediate interrupt that makes it very difficult to do anything else at the same time. Texts are asynchronous.
Also, within “our” generation I see a big cultural break between those who had an NES as kids as those who did not. I was already in college when it came out, and thus never got into “console gaming”, even though I’m a crazy PC gamer. Controllers are weird and awkward and there are wolves after me.
One thing that always sticks out to me is how there is more difference within a generation than between generations. I'm a millennial. I can run a rotary phone, write cursive, drive stick shift (which I learned from another millennial) and I'm a better DIYer than any member of gen X I know. Meanwhile, I know some GenX'ers who are more compitent tech guys than I'll ever be.
Considering the Stone Age computer tech Gen-Xers had to deal with, which wasn't exactly known for its user-friendliness, them having higher tech savviness than us doesn't surprise me.
I'm a millennial, not 35, but just a few years older than that. I think I have a good work-life balance, I work 40 hours or so a week and I take some vacations and days off here and there to spend with my family. I didn't when I didn't have a family, but as soon as I did I cut back on work a fair bit. But then, I'm early enough in the Millennial generation that some generational classifications put me into an in between generation called Xennials (1977-1985), so a lot of what you're describing applies to me, but you're both about 8 years older than me. I love to DIY, it's way cheaper than paying someone to do it.
Funny to hear this, since I'm 39. I grew up with computers and tech that others didn't have, but I also grew up watching Star Trek. In that frame, I always saw our capabilities as limited relative to what Science Fiction predicted was possible. Or in another vein, I was always looking at articles, news, and browsing to learn what other people had. The future always seemed over the horizon, and to this day, I only feel that I look towards the future and technology and the capabilities that it can bring. To me, it's an essential part of life that offers possibilities beyond our wildest dreams, if only we keep striving to find new and better ways to use it.
Brando, buddy... Bee Movie is a furtherance of Seinfeld's genius. It is an engaging, humorous technical exercise built around almost entirely nothing. It's the exact opposite of what you do, but that's a horseshoe of quality, not a good to bad scale. Meaning, it is just as genius in the exact opposite way. The timing, the writing, the play, the very bounce to the words, all decorated gloriously by great animators. It's amazing and that's why it has become nested in the public consciousness.
One thing I wonder about is the different generational experiences depending on timing within the generation. You guys are late Gen X and seem to have had a different experience than my early Gen X parents. I am early Gen Z and feel I had a very different experience growing up than late Gen Z, especially because I remember a time before social media, smartphones, and wifi.
The Addams Family in black and white is soooo good. Gordon Lightfoot is on my phone and record player. And I was in primary school when Nirvana was around.
I disagree with millennials not being diyers. It seems like we millennials are the ones who started picking all those skills back up. We all cook, crochet and do wood work and stuff. I think it's like Adam said if you don't know how to do something TH-cam does. It makes it way easier to learn new skills.
41:29 "They are tech savvy, but not tech dependant" "That's when I buy into your horoscope theory" I'm not from Gen X, I'm probably a Millenial and I'd agree if someone told me we are a tech dependant generation. In this light and looking at Gen Xs I know (like my parents), they're not tech dependant, unless you consider old, non-digital 'tech.
This episode is just fantastic and the discussion incredible. What's even more interesting is hearing it from the perspective of a 90s kid from Europe... there's so much I could talk with Brandon and Dan about similarities and discrepancies. it'd make a very interesting conversation
Dan Wells, in a WWII infantry combat unit would either be the grizzled Gunny Sgt. who helps his mates and is awesome at war or a complete coward. I Can't decide which.
You know, it's hilarious, I completely forgot about turtle graphics as a real thing. Back in 2011, I started my basics with programming using redstone. In 2012, I learned about the Computercraft mod, which had programmable Turtles you could move in three dimensions with Lua. Lua was my first programming language as a result; I started when I was 13.
I'm a millennial, but when I was in third grade we still had the old apple computer at school. We exclusively did typing practice and Oregon trail. I didn't learn to type well at school however, I learned to type well by chatting with my friends on msn messenger in Jr. High. 😆
I think that's what a lot of us had happen. Good enough to get through class, but when you actually need to type quickly? You can't beat msn/aim for fast messaging.
generation X is the forgotten generation. The baby boomer generation so outnumbered everyone else that everything was geared towards that generation. Gen X didn't get something unless the boomer generation wanted it to. This is why we were such a rebellious generation. It was things like our rebellious music and even the X Games.
I think Gen X were rebellious because hippie youth culture had taken off in the decades in which they were born (60s and 70s). GenX didn't actually participate in the counter culture movement of the 60's and 70's, but they inherited its styles and attitude and made it more mainstream. I think the same thing can be said for Millenials and Gen Z: millennial internet culture, which was only segment of mainstream culture, set the tone for all of GenZ youth culture.
I'm on the edge of Gen X at 83', but I completely feel like Gen X as we had cassettes and VHS and most of the things you just described I remember as a kid.
I have a critically important question that I desperately need an answer to! Why does Brandon place his autographed copies of whatever he is signing into several different stacks?! They come in as one stack, get converted into three or four little stacks, and then they are recombined into a single stack again! WHY?! 🤔🤔🤣
or small stacks are easier to have not fall over so that Brandon doesn't have to be so careful when placing them, saves a couple seconds per sheet. letting the ink dry is a pretty good reason though
You showed up at our church once in Seattle and when you introduced your self no one knew who you were except for my older brother who was so mad because he had been reading oath bringer at church up until a few weeks prior when he finished the book so he couldn’t request your autograph
My first own-money record was Thriller, cassette was New Edition, and CD was Nevermind. I couldn't tell you the names of any of my teachers growing up - and I'm a teacher myself, so I know they mattered - but those purchases are core memories that I know will be with me to the end. Also, I guess that Gen X has a reputation for being salty. I can get that.
I wonder why Dan said it's impossible to get an autograph in "The temple"? Just curious. Is it because in that religion once you set foot inside the church you become just another person, leaving behind material titles and things?
The temple is an extra sacred space and you're supposed to be focusing more on your relationship God then with things of the world. So when you recognize your favorite author the worldly part of you wants an autograph, but you're supposed to be focusing on your soul. After normal Sunday worships it's more open to typical day today conversation and it would be less awkward to ask for an autograph. The temple is something you go to outside of Sunday worship.
When are we gonna get other guests on this podcast? I love Brandon and Dan of course,but watching the two of them chat with Matt Colville about narratives would be the crossover of the year!
The almond crops wouldn't need all those non-native honeybees trucked in if they weren't so fixated on maintaining orchards as a monoculture. Native bees can be more effective than honeybees, but if you set up your land so it's a flowerless wasteland 90% of the year, what you're left with is trucking in bees during the tiny window when there are flowers, and all the ecological mess that goes along with it.
Interesting thing with the birth order stuff. I come from a family with 4 kids, all of us girls. The eldest was actually the one who acted out, the second eldest was responsible and independent, then there's about a 5 year age gap. I fit traits for both the third child and what is typical of the eldest, and then youngest has both youngest child and second child traits, though the acting out isn't nearly as bad as with our older sister.
I found this conversation fascinating! I was born in '84, which is just after the generational split so I fit into the Millenials category, but I felt I had more in common with Gen X, so I claim that generation.
That bizarre transitive property doesn't work; both are awful in different ways. The prequels don't become good just because some other poorly made movies exist.
I was born in 76. Funny my life feels very similar to brandons. Brandon said he listened to van halen. When I heard eruption, it changed my life completely. Guitar playing and music was my life. I was one of those full on metal guys that the heavier the better and yes I believed that was alternative was destroying music lol. Yes I loved classical and yngwie malmsteen and randy rhoades. I hated country and bluegrass however that is all I mainly heard growing up my family was southerner types. My taste for music however has took a 180 completely since getting older. Now I've been listening to things my parents did country and bluegrass and even older rock like the beatles which I heard when I was young but never understood why they as so popular. Well now I do. My parents however was a hot mess they divorced and I rebeled when I was young. The music for me flopped never made it turns out I enjoyed playing for fun. The work of a band was ugh lol. I also failed school because of music. I wanted to be home more to play more which was not a good move. My principal told me you want to quit school "Hey have your parents come in and sign this, and you don't gotta be here...." What an educator, right? I had only one year left as well. Life hasn't been to great I basically probably dude to my choices when I was young yes I was a partier shoulda went with the metal lifestyle. Also parents being abusive mentally especially during one episode I got ptsd and starting having panic attacks in my teens that worsened throughout my life and now days are spent coping, which I do ok at. Wow that was a short biography lol. I think we lived in the greatest time ever known to mankind we got to experience great kidom without the distractions of technology and yet getting to experience it when we should.
My father bought it when it came out but I stole it when I went to college. I remember singing it with friends in middle school. Totally excellent album, and I was into metal in those years.
I find it difficult to listen to these podcasts sometimes due to the similarities I share with Brandon. I want to jump into the conversation and it is somewhat frustrating that I can't. I am two years older but most of our experiences, tastes, and behaviors are fairly similar. Also, I don't live with or spend time with anyone with similar experiences to myself so possibly it is something pent up.
As a Ben, the first time I watched one of these all the way through to the last second it was quite startling. Now I'm used to it and can confirm that it was definitely my fault.
OMG, the first album I bought was Metallica, ...And Justice For All, and the first CD I bought I THINK was a Spyro Gyra album, a new age jazz fusion outfit. You're not alone Brandon.
*me trying to enjoy the podcast halfway through* *also me, obsessively playing through my mind, what I should have said during a dans unprovoked attack on shrek*
The Pew Research years for Gen X are becoming probably the most widely accepted date range for the generation. They would say Gen X is 1965-1980. Honestly I think most demographers tend to shorten Gen X because they are trying to appease the Millennials, and make the Millennial generation fit nice and neatly in a range leading up to 2000. So Gen X seems to get what is left over which seems to be a common trend. Personally as someone who grew up through the whole decade of the 80s, I think Gen X is really more like 1965 to about 1983 or 1984. Anything after that would be Millennial territory.
Dividing people into generations says more about the major shifts in the world around the time of the generation boundaries. Anyone who gets more specific than horoscope-style descriptions is a conman selling a book. I’m a late GenXer/Xennial who doesn’t identify with Millennials at all. My parents grew up poor in the 50s and 60s but never rebelled or joined the counter culture, but their parents were born in the 1900s-early 1910s, so we have a long history of not fitting nicely into paradigms.
My family goes Boomers (1951,1964) -> Millenial (1987, 1991) -> Gen A (2018). We don't have any gen X or Gen Z in our family. It just happened to line up that way because both my parents and myself had kids into their 30s.
Wait... changing a tire is considered DIY? Ok, I admit there are, like, 12 steps in that sequence. _But first 5 of those steps are removing the 5 bots and last 5 steps are putting them back._
Oh! Brandon listens to rock/metal music!! Do you know that the bards of metal, Blind Guardian, just wrote a song about Kaladin. Any fantasy reader should give them listen.
Not understanding new technology is mostly an unwillingness to learn. Even so, it only becomes a trial when the interface changes and they no longer cater to the older generation; there will be certain people who have never used/strengthened the part of the brain that controls that neural interface technology. Alternatively, there will be people who have never strengthened the threat detection part of their brain, if the future goes the other direction into an apocalypse.
Someday I'm gonna run into Brandon Sanderson and just ask for an autograph non-awkwardly. I'll say that I heard how weird people were about it on his podcast and I didn't want to add to the difficulty, haha.
K, I was born in 81 and I have a few notes: -I don't think of myself as a DIY person, but I've fixed just about every major appliance in our house, including the TV, so I guess I am. Thanks TH-cam! -I believe our "in-between" sub-generational group is referred to as "Xennials". I can't help but notice the years for being a Xennial keep expanding, I think it's because we all want to be different. -"Gen Z" is a stupid name, they need a better one. -I play through the original Zelda at least once a year.
Brandon! We Boomers lived through the first war that was on television every night. It was horrific. The flower children and peace protests were a direct result. And Boomers are absolutely not terrified of technology. We freaking invented it! Personal computers were invented by Boomers. I learned Pascal, Fortran, and Basic on a mainframe with punch cards and owned the first generation of Apple PCs from the moment they came out. (And am still an Apple freak.) All my friends in college were using computers and at my recent reunion we were all wearing Apple watches. You guys USED the tech WE launched and have continued to drive it forward. Sure, GenX has done what generation do…new and amazing stuff. Millennials too for that matter. I am in never ending awe of all the new tech, software, and apps that just continue to emerge. And I’ll put my BTS knowledge up against both of you together. #ARMY I’ll tell you what may be contributing to the differences you see between your parents and yourself, location. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I now live in rural Indiana. Being in the Midwest makes an enormous difference in that I have to consciously stay connected to technology and progressive thought here and it is just part of day to day life in my hometown.
My dad is a boomer (born in 1951) and he LOVES tech. He's a early adopter, we had a computer at home as soon as they were no longer the size of a room. Every time I visit my dad he's telling me about all the latest tech he's discovered.
I think Beemovie became a meme cause it was a cheap movie to run for networks/cahnnels here and there. that type of movie is kind of a staple of my childhood, and I distinctly remember in my childhood, around 2010-ish, when here in germany Channels used to run like animemovies during summerbreak, which was mainly Ghibli but also for example Evangelion, and then they randomly shifted to only showing really trashy 3d animated movies like Beemovie. Sometimes they would literally run these once a month.
I guess 90's kids fall into the Millennial gap now? It seems to change every couple of years. I would say I have a decent work/life balance, mainly because I refuse to overwork, I need time to destress. I also find it interesting that as the eldest of three, I am a very quiet person and feel like myself and my younger sister (third child) should be switched as she is much more independent. The brother between us doesn't fit /any/ of those either.
If you were a poor early millennial the Technology transformation was the same as for Gen X because the computers were starting at school but not for MY school there was still one green box in the corner no one knew how to use and the advance computer training in Middle School was learning to play Sim City and Sim Farm sooooo that’s probably why I’m addicted to stupid phone games now.
Interesting talk on sticking with familiar media. I think, Brandon, that you are definitely going to be more artistically involved and progressive by the simple fact that you are a working artist. I knoe many, many people approaching 30 who are sort of stuck in rewatching the office and playing games on their vintage consoles. I think these are the people that become "Out of touch" as they get old and feel lost in the culture. If you don't follow the culture for a decade or two, new stuff suddenly looks insane.
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“Everybody wants a piece of bee” is the underrated line of the year! 😭
5:00 I don't think Shrek is about two people coming together even though they're different. Throughout the movie we only learn more and more that they're exactly the same--from humour, disgusting mannerisms & eventually even looks. But due to their appearances society views them both very differently. Shrek learns how not to let the opinions of others define him, and Fiona also learns to embrace her Ogre side and not worry about what society thinks.
First it was the Hades take, and now its Shrek. Dan is on the most bad takes any% wr currently!
Yeah, I think the message is closer to "It doesn't matter what you look like."
@@robertdullnig3625 Then why does she have to change what she looks like in order to be with him?
@@danwells9305 she doesn't change to be with him. The curse changed her, then true loves first kiss doesn't changer her, because it doesn't matter. there are multiple messages in the movie and the one that says looks don't matter would be undercut significantly more if she had changed back to being pretty. Also, Shrek is not like bee movie or the prequels, it was praised by critics and made half a billion worldwide at the box office, it was always loved.
@@joshpaulsen5601 Yes, I don't think it is comparable to, say, the ending of Grease. Her ogre form isn't less "her" than her human form, and Shrek was going to marry her either way.
27:48 "Millenials are 'work 60 hours because otherwise you'll starve to death'"
I felt that in my soul
Along with “I don’t know any 35 year old that would say they have a good work-life balance” 😭
I find the reflexion of Dan about how people under 35 cannot afford a good work-life balance very interesting, because it is very true.
I am a millenial and the world has been on the edge of collapse for my entire adult life. I became an adult and started my career in 2008. From one year to the next one the prospect of my future went from bright to grim to very dark, with the consequtive 2011-2013 depressions, etc.
Then I was scheduled to finish my phd on May 2020, but ups, it seems that it won't happen because of covid. I had to delay it for year. And then another year to find a work because everything has been closed.
When the generation of my parents talk about their life, I am in utter disbelieve. I just cannot believe that my parents could buy their house in the first beach line with the help of savings of my grandparents, who were school teachers. My friends who are teachers have to live 3 together in an apartment to afford rent.
We are the first generation that is going to, on average, have a worse standard of living than the previous one when accounting for inflation and all of that, and I think that that is a huge line between genX and millenials.
And, somehow, we are still seeing as the "spoiled generation". It is honestly quite frustrating.
I look at this way to still the disappointment; we're still spoiled compared to people in poor parts of the world outside the West.
Trust me, I've been to many countries all over the world and seen six person families living in wooden shacks, dirt floor, no kitchen save a fire, perhaps at worst; in a slum. Then you talk to the kids who have no prospect of education, no travel, don't even know the names of neighbouring countries. What they do is work, for the family.
And the astounding part is; more often than not, they are happier than we are. They still want, and deserve, better quality of life though, everyone does.
So yeah, it sucks, but then the West attained it's high standards of living precisely at the expense of poorer peoples, so it's coming back to bite the West in the ass.
The elite don't care though, they think they're set for whatever to come. But those who hoard wealth and luxury with no regard, they shall suffer the greatest loss.
The worst part is being told we are ruining and destroying society while our generation has literally 0 influence in government. The Boomers (and some gen X) still have a death grip on our country and continue to enrich themselves even as they die off, at the cost of all younger generations.
I heard Brandon say “I’m 75” and I had to take a trip to google before I realized he was talking birth years
I was just like no way is he that old
I guess you where born after 2000. ^^
Yea him saying “I’m 75” was him referencing his age… if he wrote at the speed of a normal human. Luckily he doesn’t, and he’s Brandon Sanderson
Clean living keeps you looking young! 😂
Gen x innit
He’s 75 in Author Years
For some reason when you started talking about hair bands and rock bands a picture of Brandon with a Mullet came into my head and now it won’t go away😂😂😂
13:29 Dan: "In my experience, a lot of nerds, the people in advanced classes in school, people who were very into classical music were also into metal at some point or to some degree."
I don't believe I have been so called out in my entire life.
Same 😂
Same
That’s me but with the metal being Doom Eternal
Of all genres of music the two who's fans have the largest crossovers personality wise are metal and classical. Some studies have been done on this.
This one hits so close it hurts. The other truth is that every guitarist who doesn't stick with metal will start playing either blues or jazz depending on the metal bands they liked.
Still here hoping to see into the alternate universe where Brandon got more into metal and hair bands and released the Cosmere as a series of albums.
Generation vs Geography would be an interesting study. I’m a half generation younger than Dan and Brandon, but my rural Millennial existence was pretty much their Gen-X experience based on this discussion. We always joked we were twenty years behind the rest of the world where I’m from, but apparently the joke was on us.
As an "old person" (61), it's entertaining to listen to every generation go through this sort of "kids these days" conversation. I'm sure it was just as entertaining for every generation before me.
FWIW, I'm not frightened by tech. Of course I started programming in 1975, bought my first computer and ran a computer store in the '80s, and have worked on computers (and played on computers) for decades. So there's that.
I'm pretty sure that every generation since the advent of age-sorted schooling has gone through "My parents just don't understand!" (Which often is actually, "Oh, sonny, I understand. I just don't have much sympathy.")
I love the food heist segments. They are just great.
When I watched Bee Movie as a kid, I kept going, "What is going on?" However, I also felt the same watching Seinfeld as a kid so I think it was intentional. haha
43:29 is the moment of sheer delight from Brandon when his evil plot to torment his poor assistant is revealed
43:33 is when he started to feel bad about it lol
And 29:40 is where Dan first mentions it!
I love this. I'm an Xennial (80), but I relate more to the Gen X side in a lot of ways. My parents were older boomers and I listened to a lot of Motown until the mid 90s when I started branching out to more modern music. I think there certainly is something to have an analog childhood and digital adolescence. I was a kid in the 80s and we had a PC in 85, but it was very rudimentary. We got AOL at home when I was 14 and that changed everything. I will say that my dad is a boomer, but he was always very good with computers. He knew how to swap hard drives and set up the computers that we got (mom, on the other hand, is a stereotypical boomer when it comes to computers). Neither of them are very good with social media, however.
Born in '73, I always felt I had much more in common with people born between roughly 72 and 82 than people born 1970 and before. It has really always felt that I came just after a balancing point and those older Gen Xers were nothing like me.
Oh, when did that fancy new intro start? Usually a Listener only, so that was a very good surprise.
My friend and I came across a lady with a flat tire on her truck near my house one night and decided to help her. It's slightly embarrassing to admit that after 45 minutes of two engineers trying to figure out how to detach the tire from the hanging spindle under the truck. I finally opened up a youtube video on my phone and were informed that all you had to do was rotate it 90 degrees and slip it though the wheel hub of the spare tire. Neither of us had ever actually needed to change a tire before and were never directly taught how to do so.
To be fair we had some debates on how the spring mechanism would allow it to detach from the wire spool along the top. And it seemed like we just weren't hitting the "detach button" hard enough. But either way it was still embarrassing and caused me to groan when we figured it out.
it's going to depend on the vehicle too. i can change a tire, but I bet that mechanism would have had me scratching my head pretty good too.
Yep, that's pretty pathetic
We still use Turtle when learning programming now, I remember making cool little programs in Python for my intro classes in college.
The language was actually called Logo, but a lot people just called it after the little triangle guy.
Using a person’s relationship to their car is actually a really neat metric for looking at a generation.
I'm in love with my car
I'm 33 and have a good work-life balance. I'm blessed, to be honest.
I made fighting games and Choose Your Own Adventure games in LogoWriter (Turtle). I bought my own graph paper and coded games ON PAPER during class (usually a class I should have been paying attention to), debug it by hand, and as soon as we had Computer Lab I'd type out the code and run it a few times to test it out. Gah. I miss those days.
The real reason behind Bee Movie being a significant movie in popular culture is the fact that posting the entire Bee Movie script as a copypasta became a huge meme
Turtles in programming is still definitely a thing that's taught in Python classes
My first 'programming language' was Superlogo. 😄
Really? I just graduated last year with a degree in Comp Sci, we did multiple classes using Python and I had never heard of the turtle thing until this video
@@barnertalik1806 Mostly what you just learned is what formative experience OneShmallow's teacher had. :P
Well, I think I fit reasonably well in this classification, but I'm a teensy bit older (1971)
First album owned (cassette tape copied from a friend's brother): "Back in Black" - AC/DC
First album purchased (cassette): "Blue Sky Mining" - Midnight Oil
First CD purchased: "Violator" - Depeche Mode
The "prefer phone calls to texts" changed, IMO, when our phones got real keyboards.
Plus I've always hated phone calls... it's an immediate interrupt that makes it very difficult to do anything else at the same time. Texts are asynchronous.
Also, within “our” generation I see a big cultural break between those who had an NES as kids as those who did not. I was already in college when it came out, and thus never got into “console gaming”, even though I’m a crazy PC gamer. Controllers are weird and awkward and there are wolves after me.
One thing that always sticks out to me is how there is more difference within a generation than between generations.
I'm a millennial. I can run a rotary phone, write cursive, drive stick shift (which I learned from another millennial) and I'm a better DIYer than any member of gen X I know.
Meanwhile, I know some GenX'ers who are more compitent tech guys than I'll ever be.
Considering the Stone Age computer tech Gen-Xers had to deal with, which wasn't exactly known for its user-friendliness, them having higher tech savviness than us doesn't surprise me.
I'm a millennial, not 35, but just a few years older than that. I think I have a good work-life balance, I work 40 hours or so a week and I take some vacations and days off here and there to spend with my family. I didn't when I didn't have a family, but as soon as I did I cut back on work a fair bit. But then, I'm early enough in the Millennial generation that some generational classifications put me into an in between generation called Xennials (1977-1985), so a lot of what you're describing applies to me, but you're both about 8 years older than me. I love to DIY, it's way cheaper than paying someone to do it.
Funny to hear this, since I'm 39. I grew up with computers and tech that others didn't have, but I also grew up watching Star Trek. In that frame, I always saw our capabilities as limited relative to what Science Fiction predicted was possible. Or in another vein, I was always looking at articles, news, and browsing to learn what other people had. The future always seemed over the horizon, and to this day, I only feel that I look towards the future and technology and the capabilities that it can bring. To me, it's an essential part of life that offers possibilities beyond our wildest dreams, if only we keep striving to find new and better ways to use it.
Brando, buddy... Bee Movie is a furtherance of Seinfeld's genius. It is an engaging, humorous technical exercise built around almost entirely nothing. It's the exact opposite of what you do, but that's a horseshoe of quality, not a good to bad scale. Meaning, it is just as genius in the exact opposite way. The timing, the writing, the play, the very bounce to the words, all decorated gloriously by great animators. It's amazing and that's why it has become nested in the public consciousness.
One thing I wonder about is the different generational experiences depending on timing within the generation. You guys are late Gen X and seem to have had a different experience than my early Gen X parents. I am early Gen Z and feel I had a very different experience growing up than late Gen Z, especially because I remember a time before social media, smartphones, and wifi.
same here. its easier to relate to millennials than late gen Z at times.
This was a really fun to listen to episode. Loved the view points. It’s crazy how fast each generations experience is so different.
The Addams Family in black and white is soooo good. Gordon Lightfoot is on my phone and record player. And I was in primary school when Nirvana was around.
I think the Shrek is sincerely respected, Bee Movie not so much.
My first pc had MS DOS, a monochrome monitor and a dot matrix printer!
I disagree with millennials not being diyers. It seems like we millennials are the ones who started picking all those skills back up. We all cook, crochet and do wood work and stuff. I think it's like Adam said if you don't know how to do something TH-cam does. It makes it way easier to learn new skills.
41:29 "They are tech savvy, but not tech dependant" "That's when I buy into your horoscope theory" I'm not from Gen X, I'm probably a Millenial and I'd agree if someone told me we are a tech dependant generation. In this light and looking at Gen Xs I know (like my parents), they're not tech dependant, unless you consider old, non-digital 'tech.
This episode is just fantastic and the discussion incredible. What's even more interesting is hearing it from the perspective of a 90s kid from Europe... there's so much I could talk with Brandon and Dan about similarities and discrepancies. it'd make a very interesting conversation
I for one am so glad we got to hear Brandon's take on Bee Movie. This is what this podcast was made for. :)
Dan Wells, in a WWII infantry combat unit would either be the grizzled Gunny Sgt. who helps his mates and is awesome at war or a complete coward. I Can't decide which.
I suspect Dan's next birthday present from Brandon may be a Gremlins marathon in his home cinema
You know, it's hilarious, I completely forgot about turtle graphics as a real thing. Back in 2011, I started my basics with programming using redstone. In 2012, I learned about the Computercraft mod, which had programmable Turtles you could move in three dimensions with Lua. Lua was my first programming language as a result; I started when I was 13.
I'm a millennial, but when I was in third grade we still had the old apple computer at school. We exclusively did typing practice and Oregon trail. I didn't learn to type well at school however, I learned to type well by chatting with my friends on msn messenger in Jr. High. 😆
I think that's what a lot of us had happen. Good enough to get through class, but when you actually need to type quickly? You can't beat msn/aim for fast messaging.
generation X is the forgotten generation. The baby boomer generation so outnumbered everyone else that everything was geared towards that generation. Gen X didn't get something unless the boomer generation wanted it to. This is why we were such a rebellious generation. It was things like our rebellious music and even the X Games.
I think Gen X were rebellious because hippie youth culture had taken off in the decades in which they were born (60s and 70s). GenX didn't actually participate in the counter culture movement of the 60's and 70's, but they inherited its styles and attitude and made it more mainstream. I think the same thing can be said for Millenials and Gen Z: millennial internet culture, which was only segment of mainstream culture, set the tone for all of GenZ youth culture.
I’m 18 but only listen to my parents type of music. I enjoy the rock and grunge talk. Excited to hear alternative brought up
Gremlins 2 is awesome for its sheer, 80's flavored, absurdity. And the Jordan and Peele sketch based on it...*chef's kiss*
If Brandon gets his hands on elden ring, Stormlight 5 might be delayed... About 2 or 3 hours or so. 😂
Dan's issue with Shrek is why I don't like Grease hahah
I'm on the edge of Gen X at 83', but I completely feel like Gen X as we had cassettes and VHS and most of the things you just described I remember as a kid.
well that's just an elder millennial thing. 85 here
@@BioStormX I think it's because I had an older brother 78' and I was introduced to all of his stuff
I have a critically important question that I desperately need an answer to! Why does Brandon place his autographed copies of whatever he is signing into several different stacks?! They come in as one stack, get converted into three or four little stacks, and then they are recombined into a single stack again!
WHY?! 🤔🤔🤣
I believe it's to let the ink dry
or small stacks are easier to have not fall over so that Brandon doesn't have to be so careful when placing them, saves a couple seconds per sheet. letting the ink dry is a pretty good reason though
Eficiency and the length of his arm
You showed up at our church once in Seattle and when you introduced your self no one knew who you were except for my older brother who was so mad because he had been reading oath bringer at church up until a few weeks prior when he finished the book so he couldn’t request your autograph
That is delightful
My first own-money record was Thriller, cassette was New Edition, and CD was Nevermind. I couldn't tell you the names of any of my teachers growing up - and I'm a teacher myself, so I know they mattered - but those purchases are core memories that I know will be with me to the end.
Also, I guess that Gen X has a reputation for being salty. I can get that.
I wonder why Dan said it's impossible to get an autograph in "The temple"? Just curious. Is it because in that religion once you set foot inside the church you become just another person, leaving behind material titles and things?
The temple is an extra sacred space and you're supposed to be focusing more on your relationship God then with things of the world. So when you recognize your favorite author the worldly part of you wants an autograph, but you're supposed to be focusing on your soul. After normal Sunday worships it's more open to typical day today conversation and it would be less awkward to ask for an autograph. The temple is something you go to outside of Sunday worship.
I just appreciate this so much 😂
When are we gonna get other guests on this podcast? I love Brandon and Dan of course,but watching the two of them chat with Matt Colville about narratives would be the crossover of the year!
YES!!!!!
I remember the turtle as being called "Logo", using that on our Apple IIc at home.
The almond crops wouldn't need all those non-native honeybees trucked in if they weren't so fixated on maintaining orchards as a monoculture. Native bees can be more effective than honeybees, but if you set up your land so it's a flowerless wasteland 90% of the year, what you're left with is trucking in bees during the tiny window when there are flowers, and all the ecological mess that goes along with it.
Interesting thing with the birth order stuff. I come from a family with 4 kids, all of us girls. The eldest was actually the one who acted out, the second eldest was responsible and independent, then there's about a 5 year age gap. I fit traits for both the third child and what is typical of the eldest, and then youngest has both youngest child and second child traits, though the acting out isn't nearly as bad as with our older sister.
YES! 80s rock was the best! Love my Metallica! My son is in Drumline and this year's theme is 80 video games. It's awesome.
Fellow LDS 75'r here. So many parallels - except I never got married. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, guys.
I found this conversation fascinating! I was born in '84, which is just after the generational split so I fit into the Millenials category, but I felt I had more in common with Gen X, so I claim that generation.
What made the prequels good was the sequels.
That bizarre transitive property doesn't work; both are awful in different ways. The prequels don't become good just because some other poorly made movies exist.
@@davidbowles7281 the prequels are still subpar we just have something worse to compare them to. I was joking anyways so don't read too much into it.
I was born in 76. Funny my life feels very similar to brandons. Brandon said he listened to van halen. When I heard eruption, it changed my life completely. Guitar playing and music was my life. I was one of those full on metal guys that the heavier the better and yes I believed that was alternative was destroying music lol. Yes I loved classical and yngwie malmsteen and randy rhoades. I hated country and bluegrass however that is all I mainly heard growing up my family was southerner types. My taste for music however has took a 180 completely since getting older. Now I've been listening to things my parents did country and bluegrass and even older rock like the beatles which I heard when I was young but never understood why they as so popular. Well now I do. My parents however was a hot mess they divorced and I rebeled when I was young. The music for me flopped never made it turns out I enjoyed playing for fun. The work of a band was ugh lol. I also failed school because of music. I wanted to be home more to play more which was not a good move. My principal told me you want to quit school "Hey have your parents come in and sign this, and you don't gotta be here...." What an educator, right? I had only one year left as well. Life hasn't been to great I basically probably dude to my choices when I was young yes I was a partier shoulda went with the metal lifestyle. Also parents being abusive mentally especially during one episode I got ptsd and starting having panic attacks in my teens that worsened throughout my life and now days are spent coping, which I do ok at. Wow that was a short biography lol. I think we lived in the greatest time ever known to mankind we got to experience great kidom without the distractions of technology and yet getting to experience it when we should.
I bought Graceland in the late 2000's. I love that album.
My father bought it when it came out but I stole it when I went to college. I remember singing it with friends in middle school. Totally excellent album, and I was into metal in those years.
I find it difficult to listen to these podcasts sometimes due to the similarities I share with Brandon. I want to jump into the conversation and it is somewhat frustrating that I can't. I am two years older but most of our experiences, tastes, and behaviors are fairly similar. Also, I don't live with or spend time with anyone with similar experiences to myself so possibly it is something pent up.
As a Ben, the first time I watched one of these all the way through to the last second it was quite startling. Now I'm used to it and can confirm that it was definitely my fault.
OMG, the first album I bought was Metallica, ...And Justice For All, and the first CD I bought I THINK was a Spyro Gyra album, a new age jazz fusion outfit. You're not alone Brandon.
As a proud nerdy member of GenX, I very much love this episode. 😄
Why?
*me trying to enjoy the podcast halfway through* *also me, obsessively playing through my mind, what I should have said during a dans unprovoked attack on shrek*
The Pew Research years for Gen X are becoming probably the most widely accepted date range for the generation. They would say Gen X is 1965-1980. Honestly I think most demographers tend to shorten Gen X because they are trying to appease the Millennials, and make the Millennial generation fit nice and neatly in a range leading up to 2000. So Gen X seems to get what is left over which seems to be a common trend. Personally as someone who grew up through the whole decade of the 80s, I think Gen X is really more like 1965 to about 1983 or 1984. Anything after that would be Millennial territory.
i am a couple years older then those 2 at 48, but how dead on they were with so much of that stuff creeped me out.
I am 8 years younger than Sanderson, and a Millenial, and I play old Nintendo games on NSO with a Super Nintendo controller.
Adoooonalsiiiiium
I listen to Genesis and Billy Joel because of my dad. It is funny to think of people in my parents' generation doing the same thing.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think that there would be bee heists going on... food is gonna get insanely expensive real soon
Dividing people into generations says more about the major shifts in the world around the time of the generation boundaries. Anyone who gets more specific than horoscope-style descriptions is a conman selling a book.
I’m a late GenXer/Xennial who doesn’t identify with Millennials at all. My parents grew up poor in the 50s and 60s but never rebelled or joined the counter culture, but their parents were born in the 1900s-early 1910s, so we have a long history of not fitting nicely into paradigms.
My family goes Boomers (1951,1964) -> Millenial (1987, 1991) -> Gen A (2018). We don't have any gen X or Gen Z in our family. It just happened to line up that way because both my parents and myself had kids into their 30s.
Wait... changing a tire is considered DIY?
Ok, I admit there are, like, 12 steps in that sequence.
_But first 5 of those steps are removing the 5 bots and last 5 steps are putting them back._
Bee-movie - LOL ^^. The german version of Bee movie added a wordplay to the title in german "Das Honigkomplott".
That would be an awesome story. "The Battle for the Bees"
“Bee cause”
Oh! Brandon listens to rock/metal music!! Do you know that the bards of metal, Blind Guardian, just wrote a song about Kaladin. Any fantasy reader should give them listen.
Not understanding new technology is mostly an unwillingness to learn. Even so, it only becomes a trial when the interface changes and they no longer cater to the older generation; there will be certain people who have never used/strengthened the part of the brain that controls that neural interface technology.
Alternatively, there will be people who have never strengthened the threat detection part of their brain, if the future goes the other direction into an apocalypse.
Phones are also used for "hey this thing is urgent"
Someday I'm gonna run into Brandon Sanderson and just ask for an autograph non-awkwardly. I'll say that I heard how weird people were about it on his podcast and I didn't want to add to the difficulty, haha.
We need timestamps on this video lol
Anyone else wait for them to start with a food heist and disappointed if there is none. ^^
Didn't have to wait long
K, I was born in 81 and I have a few notes:
-I don't think of myself as a DIY person, but I've fixed just about every major appliance in our house, including the TV, so I guess I am. Thanks TH-cam!
-I believe our "in-between" sub-generational group is referred to as "Xennials". I can't help but notice the years for being a Xennial keep expanding, I think it's because we all want to be different.
-"Gen Z" is a stupid name, they need a better one.
-I play through the original Zelda at least once a year.
I got a Brandon Sanderson kickstarter ad on this video.
Millennials are mostly just depressed, honestly. Life's hard enough without having Boomers complaining about us ruining everything 24/7.
1st album I bought myself? does that include any that I got with the penny I sent Columbia House??
🤣 "Will play Elden Ring WHEN it comes out?" Hilarious... When was this recorded?
Brandon! We Boomers lived through the first war that was on television every night. It was horrific. The flower children and peace protests were a direct result. And Boomers are absolutely not terrified of technology. We freaking invented it! Personal computers were invented by Boomers. I learned Pascal, Fortran, and Basic on a mainframe with punch cards and owned the first generation of Apple PCs from the moment they came out. (And am still an Apple freak.) All my friends in college were using computers and at my recent reunion we were all wearing Apple watches. You guys USED the tech WE launched and have continued to drive it forward. Sure, GenX has done what generation do…new and amazing stuff. Millennials too for that matter. I am in never ending awe of all the new tech, software, and apps that just continue to emerge.
And I’ll put my BTS knowledge up against both of you together. #ARMY
I’ll tell you what may be contributing to the differences you see between your parents and yourself, location. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area. I now live in rural Indiana. Being in the Midwest makes an enormous difference in that I have to consciously stay connected to technology and progressive thought here and it is just part of day to day life in my hometown.
My dad is a boomer (born in 1951) and he LOVES tech. He's a early adopter, we had a computer at home as soon as they were no longer the size of a room. Every time I visit my dad he's telling me about all the latest tech he's discovered.
9:55 we still do that, but now its freshmen in college
I think Beemovie became a meme cause it was a cheap movie to run for networks/cahnnels here and there. that type of movie is kind of a staple of my childhood, and I distinctly remember in my childhood, around 2010-ish, when here in germany Channels used to run like animemovies during summerbreak, which was mainly Ghibli but also for example Evangelion, and then they randomly shifted to only showing really trashy 3d animated movies like Beemovie. Sometimes they would literally run these once a month.
I think you guys may be confusing Gen Z with Millenials.
Some of your points are accurate, but Millenials are basically Gen X lite.
I really feel like Dan needs to watch Gremlins!
Honey Heist
I guess 90's kids fall into the Millennial gap now? It seems to change every couple of years. I would say I have a decent work/life balance, mainly because I refuse to overwork, I need time to destress.
I also find it interesting that as the eldest of three, I am a very quiet person and feel like myself and my younger sister (third child) should be switched as she is much more independent. The brother between us doesn't fit /any/ of those either.
If you were a poor early millennial the Technology transformation was the same as for Gen X because the computers were starting at school but not for MY school there was still one green box in the corner no one knew how to use and the advance computer training in Middle School was learning to play Sim City and Sim Farm sooooo that’s probably why I’m addicted to stupid phone games now.
One day Ben should visit just so he can reply in-person at the end of the podcast. ;)
Interesting talk on sticking with familiar media. I think, Brandon, that you are definitely going to be more artistically involved and progressive by the simple fact that you are a working artist. I knoe many, many people approaching 30 who are sort of stuck in rewatching the office and playing games on their vintage consoles. I think these are the people that become "Out of touch" as they get old and feel lost in the culture. If you don't follow the culture for a decade or two, new stuff suddenly looks insane.
new intro!!