Deflecting Swat is so good because you can change ALL the targets of a spell or ability. Changing all the targets of a Heliod’s Intevention or a By Force for free is game changing. It’s worlds better than other similar spells, including Bolt Bend. Richard needs to play it to appreciate its true power!
@@mark1A100 Throughtout the episode they bring up cards like Farewell and Ondu Inversion multiple times. My comment was pointing to the fact that, most problems they have in game are answered by just wiping the board clear of everything with said cards. This exact situation comes up a lot of times in their commander clash series. Hence leading to very long games. This can be verified by Crim's love for Skyclave Relic and other indestructible mana rocks.
It's highkey delusional to me. I get that you don't net the same amount of value as you would in a many-for-one with other cards, but sometimes you NEED to snipe down a single card to continue advancing your gameplan or preventing someone from going off. Passing the buck off might work, but that's nothing to hang your hat on when you have no way of preventing it from happening. Like if someone assembles something like Gravecrawler + Plague Belcher + Phyrexian Altar what good is your wipe? Generous Gift could get that Altar, but are you always going to be able to keep up 3 versus 1 mana? Swords isn't a sexy card when you could be doing more exciting things, but if it lets you clear away a relevant threat or prevent something degenerate then it's well worth it. It's just a far cry from EDH games that I've played over the last decade with experienced players. They will absolutely make you pay if you don't interact with them in a meaningful way.
@@shamizy It most likely is a result of their contained meta. Aside from Tomer, most of the commander clash crew seem to be primarily Arena and Online players.
This conversation is extremely interesting for revealing the very differences between "causal" edh and CEDH. Definitely two different worlds in the same universe. Swords to Plowshares is the single best spot removal ever printed.
When Richard said "Saffron Olive, better known as Seth" I felt that cause I never actually knew Seth as Saffron Olive I only knew him as Seth from these videos so Tomer always saying "better known as Saffron Olive" I was just like "Who?" Lol
He makes a lot of popular decks as "saffronolive" so if spend time on mtggoldfish browsing popular brews, your probably see that pseudonym pop up pretty frequently.
Yeah lol plus deckthinning may not have been as much of a thing back in 2015, but nowadays we play through half our deck almost every game and getting the lands out matters a whole lot when you're down to 40 cards in library total
@@commanderpower99 Oh I wouldn't say it is top 1. Just pointing out that deck thinning is a real thing. I would probably put smothering tithe and teferi's protection in my top 2. Still think land tax would be in the top 5 of generally useful.
I generally try to find room for bog in any of my decks that run black assuming I have the space to run it as a utility land, but if I have more important utility lands to run then it may not make the cut, but it is one of the better utility lands in commander, especially these days where the graveyard is relevant for almost any kind of deck anymore. But I usually have it either as one of two lands in my opening hand, or it shows up when it may kind of do something, but not really because it didn't really matter in the end, so I felt this comment pretty heavily. 😆
So funny. This week Tomer managed to kill me while I was out under Teferi's Protection with poison and proliferate. That was a good reminder that Teferi's Pro isn't an absolute certainty of survival.
I'm glad someone has finally explained why arcane denial is actually one of the best non free conterspells in the commander format. I know not everyone likes it but I'm happy Tomer explained it.
I think the best way to explain Arcane Denial is to point out that it is a cantrip that polymorphs any spell into Divination instead. When have you ever been upset that an opponent casted Divination in commander, especially if it costed them seven or eight mana? People are happy to turn most permanents into Centaur Courser with Beast Within for a higher cost and no cantrip.
@@Kryptnyt I think some people don't even understand why Divination is really bad, there's several steps to understandng why Arcane Denial is so good. A normal counter spell puts you a card behind 2 people and pisses off someone. Arcane Denial puts you 1 card behind one person, and they might not even be that mad about it. It's not even 2 blue pips!!! Could go into any deck with blue.
Arcane Denial is great because your opponent doesn't draw cards outright. In your critical turn, it's just hard counter. And there is always an option to counter your own spell to draw 3 cards. I don't play Counterspell anywhere. I play Arcane Denial everywhere. I even play Delay before Counterspell but that's just me.
@@SamuelKacerik you should always play arcane denial over counterspell. Counterspell has no place in commander. Way way way too many options to pick over it.
With Necropotence, you’re not necessarily a sitting duck until you untap like Seth and Tomer were saying. You get the cards in hand at your end step, so you can often get a bunch of Force of Wills, Fierce Guardianships, and whatever other free spells to protect yourself until your turn when you pop off. I’m excited to see Crim start running it 😂
Also, they mentioned somewhere: would you play 6+MV variants of cards? They literally banned it, it's called Griselbrand. Crim is going to pop off coming up here.
@@mellowyellow5427 honestly less of a miracle and more about him "abusing" the meta they play in. Everyone tries to do their funny-unique-deck-theme and pop off with it, winning being a coincidence if it happens. Whereas Richard plays to win, using his funny built deck. That means he leans back, avoids attention and then goes in once the other three have fought each other enough. The real miracle is how the other players *still* haven't caught up to it and started punishing his playstyle.
@@ammonaustin9081 I appreciate that he and Tomer value cards that win games a little more. Enablers can give you an advantage early and win games in 1v1, but the guy jumping into first place in the first 10 metres of a marathon is going to lose to a guy that just gets into a car at some point. Bad analogy maybe.
Awwwww man. I personally really think that Necropotence is a top 2 black card. I get the tutors but Necropotence is 3 mana draw 15. I can't really see how that is overrated.
My picks White 1. Smothering Tithe 2. Teferi's Protection Blue 1. Rhystic Study 2. Fierce Guardianship Black 1. Demonic Tutor 2. Vampiric Tutor Red 1. Dockside Extortionist 2. Literally Slicer Green 1. The Great Henge 2. Nature's Lore/Three Visits Colorless 1. Sol Ring 2. Mana Crypt Non-Color-Fixing Lands 1. Ancient Tomb 2. Urza's Saga
My List (Not including archetype-specific cards) White: Esper Sentinel / Smothering Tithe Blue: Rhystic Study / Force of Will Black: Demonic Tutor / Vampiric Tutor Red: Dockside Extortionist / Jeska's Will Green: Gaea's Cradle / Boseiju, Who Endures (I know these are technically colourless but they are the best) Colourless: Mana Crypt / Sol Ring Utility Lands: Urza's Saga / Otawara, Soaring City
Cyclonic Rift will win you the game as an offensive card, but Richard only talks about it as a defensive card. Cyc Rift on your opponent's turn, untap and win without any resistance. Permanents are so powerful, and this scoops them all up.
If we're doing honourable mentions I wanna give a shout out for "defense of the heart". Prob not a top 5 green card but it's a seriously underrated card that I think more people should try or at least have on their radar. (3g enchantment, at the beginning of your upkeep if an opponent controls 3 or more creatures, sac defense of the heart and search your deck for two creatures and put them into play).
Is there a way to view all of the crews' decklists compiled together? Like all of Richard's decks, all of Crim's decks etc. Scrolling thru the articles is kind of a pain.
The thing about TefPro being "reactive" is that the thing it's reacting to is something that will happen literally every single game. Edit: Seth saying Swords/Path are overrated doesn't surprise me considering he plays the least targeted removal I've ever seen because "it only hits one person" which is kind of the commander clash modus operandi in general
This episode was extra hostile and I’m here for it 😂 love seeing the crew defend their cards. Definitely team tomer/Crim on this one. My favorite thing to do with land tax is fill up my hand and cast valakut awakening. There’s so many ways to use extra cards in hand, even if they’re lands.
Phil's taking a break from the cast this season, but he'll still be around as a fill in when other people need a day off and might come back as a full time cast member in the future
Some spicy takes from everyone. I agree that cyclonic rift is weaker now than it has ever been because ETB effects are so much more powerful now. But force of will is 100% the best counter spell. The only time you dont have the extra card to pitch to it, is when youve spent all your cards and are likely able to hard casting it anyway.
In Green, I am extremely partial to Crop Rotation. Grab a bounce land to protect your Urborg from land hate, Mystic Sanctuary to recur a Spell, Bojuka Bog or Scav Grounds for graveyard hate, Urza's Saga for massive artifact tokens (and a Constellation trigger), Valakut to enable bolts, Emergence Zone to enable Flash for a turn, Blast Zone to set up a small specific wrath, World Tree to fix Mana, Volrath's Stronghold to recur some dorks, Sunscorched Desert to ping Tomer for 1, the wizard lab to bounce your Wizard to hand... Depending on your land list, the amount of instant speed utility that Crop Rotation has can be sooo massive. But I'm definitely rating it higher than it probably truly is :P Just wanted to give a shoutout to my sweet love Crop Rotation.
Here's what I'd put as the best before finishing the video. White: 1) Smothering Tithe 2) Esper Sentinel Blue: 1) Rhystic Study 2) Cyclonic Rift Black: 1) Necropotence 2) Demonic Tutor Red: 1) Dockside Extortionist 2) Jeska's Will Green: 1) Gaea's Cradle 2) Survival of the Fittest
@@dragondest4 Teferi's Protection and all of the hyper efficient tutors are definitely up there for me for sure, so I can see that. Just wasn't sure about putting an extremely strong answer over more proactive cards as the best white card, but I guess Teferi's Protection can be used proactively sometimes.
I reiterate my point that this podcast has turned into: "What's the biggest bullshit I can say to tilt the rest of the group the most" Instead of any real opinions or analysis.
For Black it's definitely the tutors, no question. The fact is that the tutors are 2nd copies of whatever other black card that could compete for those top 2 spots.
Richard, here's how to back up your take on spot removal when playing white... I'm a heavy white player who's messed around with different constructions and I think you've gone a bit too far but there's some credit to your take. The reason is, white has very impressive board wipes. You can leverage that to need fewer single target removal spells, but not replacing them. Tragic arrogance, hour of revelation, farewell, vanquish the horde and ondu inversion. Play those five then also play teferi's protection, clever concealment and flawless maneuver then you'll be able to dramatically set back opponents and occasionally do it completely one-sided. Setting people so far back will lessen the need for spot removal, so you don't need to go as high as 10 (like some say), but you still want at least 5 and a mixture of creature/non-creature. I think a lot of people imagine board wipes as creature only, but white's wipes do a lot more than that and it's why they can actually affect your deck building. However, for other colours I think it's a tougher argument to make.
I agree with crim, farewell is such a robbery card. Anytime i see it, its THE difference between the match. the other white cards they listed can be played thru, farewell cripples everybody and sometimes its unrecoverable
About Necropotence, the higher power you play the better it is. The longer the game is going to go as people durtle, the more that skipping your draw step will hinder you. The more that you just need to assemble your thoracle combo the more powerful life for cards is.
You guys realize that Necro gives you the cards on your end step, not your next upkeep, right? Everybody saying you have to "wait a turn cycle" to use the cards as if instants don't exist...
I keep coming back to this cast because of the takes. I really appreciate Richard challenging what most players take to be the golden rules in edh because it tends to open up more opportunities in your deck building when you suddenly don’t feel obligated to save a deck slot for swords. I’ve found, after taking Richard’s advice, that dedicating more deck spots to cards that progress your game plan and improve your consistency tend to be more effective over the long run then a one time removal spell. Sure sometimes not having a swords for a problematic creature can ruin your game but I find it more frustrating when I’m drawing situational cards and not the ones I need to get the win. Also Richard (and probably Seth) is often times the only boy on the cast that can back up his takes with clear and straightforward reasoning. I really get annoyed when Tomer goes into spazy explanation mode and try’s to rattle off as many meaningless corner cases for a card that tend to add up to nothing.
I think there are two problems with assessing cards like this: the first is that you don’t play cards independently of each other; Craterhoof would be a lot worse without green tutors and vice versa, thoracle and consultation is the single best pair of cards but aren’t the best two single cards. The other issue is that the power of the cards effect can be mitigated by its symmetry. Farewell is an absurdly strong card, definitely the strongest effect in white, but it’s tough to exploit in a way that leaves you ahead. Very fun discussion, I will add that Richards point about swords is less and less true the weaker the decks. In low power decks that only use creatures to win (and skew towards Timmy decks with big creatures) swords is an auto include.
W) Esper Sentinel and Teferis Protection U) Rhystic Study and Cyclonic Rift B) Demonic Tutor and Opposition Agent R) Dockside and Underworld Breach G) Birds of Paradise and Finale of Devastation CL) Sol Ring and Mana Crypt Land) Ancient Tomb and Boseiju, Who Endures
Has the cast done something similar but for each color combo? Each of the allied and enemy colors, shards, wedges etc. Good episode, good discussions too.
White: Esper Sentinel, Smothering Tithe Blue: Force Of Will/Negation, Rhystic Study Black: Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor Red: Dockside, Jeska's Will Green: Three Visits/Natures Lore, Sylvan Library Colorless: Sol Ring, Mana Crypt Colorless producing Lands: Urza's Saga, Ancient Tomb Color producing Lands: Gaea's Cradle, Cabal Coffers
For green, I'd go Craterhoof and Sakura Tribe Elder. Hoof just wins games for free in green, and elder is the best ramp as it helps creature synergies while also ramping/fixing on 2. It can even chump an early attack and still ramp, though that's rare.
Yeah, but eternal can be blinked and is a creature in green. Bala ghed is technically more versatile, but I would say that witness is still slightly better. Both really good cards though.
Yes, but nobody plays it, because it's too expensive. Everyone would just make hypotheticals on why it's so good without really taking into experience why it's so good
I'm going to advocate for Ranger-Captain of Eos as one of the best white cards. Its first ability is incredibly versatile; it can get you a stax piece like Esper Sentinel, or a Mother of Runes to protect your commander, or a key combo piece like Viscera Seer for sacrifice combos; Walking Ballista for infinite mana combos, Skirk Prospector in some Winota lists, and many others. As more cards are printed, this tutor effect is just going to keep getting more powerful (and, having your tutor strapped to a creature spell dodges a lot of popular counterspells!) The second ability has two uses; it can protect your combo on the turn you want to go off by shutting down opponent's counterspells, OR it can disrupt your opponents when they are trying to combo off themselves. Having this effect on an activated ability also makes it tricky to counter! So while I agree that Farewell is the best wrath in white, and Teferi's Protection is the best 'Peace Out!' in white, none of them offer the flexibility that Ranger-Captain brings to the battlefield - that puts it at the top for me :)
Agree with Seth on White For Blue I think it's a little closer, Fierce Guardianship is amazing when you're more setup and defending your commander/engine, but maybe outclassed by other free counters when stopping someone else while you're not set up (with commander on board).. Not sure on this, but Rhystic Study feels right at #1/#2 Black is tough... I lean toward demonic > vampiric. Reanimate may be my other pick of the options they have. Glad they brought up Necropotence and Bolas's Citadel because those are interchangeable with the top #1/#2 to me (deck dependent) For Red, Richard is a troll Green IDK how to evaluate. Kneejerk reaction leaning toward Sylvan Library and Great Henge
Richard saying cultivate is top 2 green spell is a huge tilt. Even if you wanted that slot for cultivate or kodamas reach - Nissa's pilgrimage is strictly an upgrade with 0 downside
My playgroup has a whiteboard for our commander days that has recently added an adjacent category to the t1 Sol Ring, we now also mark t1 Bojuka Bogs for the memes.
Surprised Crim didn't say "Ezuri's Predation" as his top green spell since it is a wrath. Unironically it is one of my favorite green spells as it is usually a finisher as well as an unavoidable wrath(unless they have pro-green/indestructable).
My Top 2 Cards in Each Color White 1. Enlightened Tutor 2. Esper Sentinel Blue 1. Rhystic Study 2. Thassa’s Oracle Black 1. Necropotence 2. Demonic Tutor Red 1. Gamble 2. Dockside Extortionist Green 1. Crop Rotation 2. Burgeoning Colorless 1. Sol Ring 2. Skullclamp
When Tomar says, “you’re a green deck so you’re creatures.” Makes me chuckle lightly as someone who’s made multiple green decks with few creatures. Like my Thrasta storm deck or my new Yargtani deck which has less than twenty creatures I believe.
Land tax has my vote for best white card but also a fun card. Missing land drops is one of the worst experiences of playing edh. Any card that can reduce that risk is a great card for me.
I'm suprised that there was no mention at all for Akroma's Will that card has been crazy powerful for me. Also surpised to not see Ad Nauseam on the Black list.
Ad Nauseam is pretty awful in non cEDH commander. There are *some* non cEDH decks that can run it, but in general the CMC is far to high in the vast majority of decks to make it a viable spell.
@@dakodastevens8972 According to EDHREC the average curve sits at about 3, including lands that'll go down to around 2, so Ad Nauseam can easily draw you some 10 cards for 5 mana and 20 life even in that world. Yes, sure, Ad Naus isn't the "draw 30 and win" card it is in Turbo Naus decks in cEDH, but this video includes Rhystic Study, Vamp and Demonic, Crypt and Gaeas Cradle so it's clearly not a list intended for purely casual decks, and Ad Nauseam will be good if you're playing a deck that looks to execute a combo.
@@Fogshaper I would argue that paying 20 life and drawing 10 cards and not winning the game on the spot is probably a bad thing (No one plays ad naus fairly, you are definitely trying to combo and everyone knows it). The majority of decks also don't run consistent curves, they run a handful of higher CMC stuff and hitting a couple of those can just ruin it as well. Its inconsistent, outside a very narrow range of decks and in general there are better options for finding combo pieces and for trading life for resources. Necropotence being one, any of the tutors, tainted pact, demonic consultation to name a few more. Again, there are *some* decks that can run it (The mono black Sidisi/sickening dreams deck comes to mind), but at the end of the day it is still a very niche card.
Would be very curious what the top 10 looks like for each of you (or at least top 5). That context would have made the video a lot more informative/interesting (and probably packed a lot more surprises once scaling to 10).
If your argument with farewell is how easily it can be replaced, there are dozens of protection spells you can replace TefPro with as well, but nothing is replacing smothering tithe, except maybe hullbreacher which is banned
Nah, Tomer's correct. Gaea's Cradle is absolutely busted. Its base is a Forest with one creature. Anything after that and it's already the best land in the game. It's Ancient Tomb if you have just 2 creatures...in a deck playing green!
Crazy to me how many potentially super relevant cards Urza's Saga tutors even excluding Sol Ring or Crypt. Skullclamp, Shadowspear, The Ozolith, Altar of the Brood, Colossus Hammer, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Witch's Oven, etc.
I would have put Crop Rotation as my number one green card. It can put an Ancient Tomb into play untapped as early as turn one, so it counts as ramp and even as a sort of ritual (1 green mana becomes 2 colorless mana). But it's not a dead card like many other ramp cards (Nature's Lore) in the lategame, since you can also get any utility land (maze of ith, Glacial Chasm, Blast Zone, Field of the Dead, Command Beacon, Bojuka Bog, etc). Using it with Lake of the Dead makes it feel even more like a ritual. Yes it is technically card disadvantage, and a blowout if it gets countered, but that's unlikely turn one.
Necropotence suffers from the dredge effect and so i think it's hard to rate If necropotence (or dredge in 60 card formats) is not played by many people then the hate cards fall out of the meta and necropotence becomes really strong If a lot of people start playing necropotence suddenly everyone has discard or a wheel effect or 3 in their deck and now you just lose it feels bad and so you stop playing it And then the cycle repeats forever
With the slight differences in hyper-geometric calculations that have been used to rationalize certain hands as being keep-able or not, I would think the *significant* hyper-geometric improvements Land Tax provides across turns would be recognizable as actual and noticeable draw improvements... literally significant deck thinning when it comes to land vs non-land not missing land drops is obviously good too xD
Might as well put Ad Naus there too by that logic. I think the fact that those cards are basically impossible to play casually is why they’re not there, granted I would say dockside is also too good for non-cEDH tables lol
@@plannedtuna8293 Ad nauseum has a much higher drop in power than Necro when moved to casual tables just because of the higher mv. It still is pretty good, but Necro will give you a much higher card per life ratio for two less mana.
@@seandun7083 I get what you’re saying but…I mean, when both spells are pretty much “pay life - draw your deck” I don’t really see one as being more casual friendly than the other lol
So I have a 50 card 5C deck half that has 31 lands, and every card I would consider a "staple". I then can pair it with another deck half that is a commander plus 49 other cards (including the basics so they can be customized per commander) I was happy to see a lot of my best cards in every colour match some of these. For me I have: White: Teferi's Protection, Smothering Tithe Blue: Cyclonic Rift, Rhystic Study Black: Toxic Deluge Red: Dockside Extortionist Green: all the ramp you'd think of and Sylvan Library. I was hoping to get some more ideas but a lot of the alternatives don't fully fit the criteria. For example, one of the commanders that uses this base is ur dragon and so I don't want to put in cards like fierce guardianship that rely on having the commander on the field.
OH! I loved the artifact segment, just everyone with their hot takes was awesome lol. That sad part is, I can kinda see everyone's point about each card they particularly favor. The issue is that Fast mana will always be the best as it is ramp and it can't be understated how much other colors really need that when compared to green and even red to an extent because of dockside for treasure and jeska's will for explosive mana all the same. Now as for the Dagger vs Sword debate: I think Dagger wins out in my opinion. Due to the earlier mentioned ramp conversation; when it does flip, its just as explosive as fast mana cards to help you deploy your even bigger bombs or combos. It becomes a lot harder to interact with because it becomes a land and the unspoken rule of 'no touchy lands' is USUALLY an accepted norm. So it ramps and it is harder to interact with once flipped and the odds of you hitting someone in a three player game is pretty high early game. Sword of Body and Mind...is well a sword lol. It has one of the most relevant protection colors being green, but besides that it usually just draws the wrath of at least ONE player at the table because it is more of a tech piece for mill than anything else. Players don't like being milled; me included, so odds are if I can remove the player from the game or immediately blow up the sword on the principle of not wanting to see my cool cards being thrown away I will. Not because I'm actually afraid of it as Justin Parnell kinda show-cased exactly that feeling you could say. Also it is a artifact that is pretty easy to destroy in this worlds vast amounts of board wipes and just responsible removal if they actually run/use it. I side with the Cod Father on this one.
I wanna clear this up for you all.. we will just do green. If you are talking power level all you typically need to do is look at cedh. Obviously there are exceptions even when just talking power due to meta game stuff but let’s say this: Kodama’s reach isn’t even in the discussion, great henge? I think some fringe decks tested it and abandoned it, natures lore/3 visits is just kinda fine, it’s usually not as good as the two mana rocks because it can’t convert colorless mana from a sol land or like mana crypt into colored mana immediately but they could make low color decks w/out really hurting you I think, Sylvan library was a staple but I’d say it’s partly getting power crept out and it’s also just maybe not as strong as people thought it was but it still gets some cedh play in grindy decks, finale of devastation maybe ought to be in every green x deck in the format just as explained it’s a tutor, it recurs stuff, and it is a win condition.. it’s a silly card.. what else? EWit,, yeah that’s fine, it gets some play in decks that can abuse it or just low color green x decks that have any use for a body.. it is nice that you can grab it w creature tutors and twin flame it or whatever then finally SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST! Best card in green period? Maybe.. maybe.. it’s frickin cracked and if you let it resolve against a deck that’s meant to abuse it you have lost the game 9 out of 10 times. Some are fringe playable some are just fine, Kodama’s reach is completely unplayable and survival/finale are actually two of the best cards in the color so I guess Tomer wins. Oh and whoever said birds of paradise is better than the land ramp is just so obviously correct it doesn’t even warrant discussion. So that’s the answer guys. Great video👍
Don't forget that Urza's Saga can also tutor artifact lands. That's what I look for in my Breya deck if I've already got Sol Ring and Skullclamp in play.
urzas saga cannot tutor for artifact lands, it explicitly mentions "cost of 0 or 1" not "1 or less." If it could also tutor for artifact lands that would make it way too strong in every format.
Fierce Guardianship allows you to play your commander 2 turns earlier than Counterspell. Force of Will does the same, most of the time. Force of Negation does the same, some of the time.
Obviously the best cards for each color are gonna be enablers (tutors, ramp, card draw, etc.), but I'd love to see a video that discussed the best finishers of each color. It's slightly more of a niche, but it's still a category that people forget to value in their deck as much.
The cool thing about casual commander is how you can make a decent argument for like 20 different cards of each category as being the best card of its color. Yes technically I'm sure there are defacto 1 or 2 answers, but it doesn't take a ton of convincing to have people change their #3 or lower answers.
my top 4 green would be 4- berserk 3- heroic intervention 2-bala ged recovery 1-sakura tribe elder, every green deck I have (owned and brewed) included these four
I find it interesting that Richard talks down to all the “armchair Commander players” in the comments, when most of the people who tune in to a podcast like this are casual players like me who play pickup games at the LGS all the time, while these guys’ opinions are largely influenced by playing against each other in a very specific meta. We tune in to get good card ideas and advice, disparaging our real-world pickup experience is cringy
I think that the issue with real-world pickup experience (and its relation to commander content concerning power in general) is that most metas are very weak. Even the 'cutthroat' players at many stores IME have power level 6-7 decks max. This is also where the goldfish group lies (roughly). The problem is that the best things at power levels 6&7 are completely different from the best at levels 3-5 (where I believe most decks lie) and levels 8-9 (10 being cedh). The best things at your lgs aren't helpful to Richard and this podcast because it's unlikely that the power-meta lines up with the goldfish power-meta. For an example of higher power content, check out some of the older nitpicking nerds content, which is focused on very high power decks without edging into cedh territory. Comedian mtg for cedh
@@light-chemistry yeah bro it's kinda funny. Like we're not saying that you being bad/casual is a bad thing, it just makes your opinion inherently less valuable when talking about high power.
Evidence that esper sentinel is better than land tax. I keep an opener with turn one rhystic buddy, you keep an opener with land tax. Doesn't matter if you go first or I do, I'm ahead on board either way. You're also not actually ramping so you can't keep up with green or fast mana or even mana rocks, and you're not good in 3/4 color because you're probably running fetches, shocks, triomes, maybe duals, and very few basics. So like 2 color or mono white or landfall or something where you can get lands/spells you discard back from the graveyard. It's good but not the best card in white by a long shot.
1. If you put land tax in the top 2, you are underestimating white. 2. Fierce guardianship has a high ceiling with low cmc commanders, but it’s not a top 2 card in any deck. 3. Demonic tutor is a better top decked tutor where vampiric is a better sand bagged tutor. 4. I think deflecting swat should be in the top 2 over will. 5. Where is craterhoof??? The most efficient finisher in a non combo meta.
I think a key note for Necropotence is if your deck can win the following turn. It's so good that you will warp the game around you immediately, but its slow. If you cant pay 15 then immediately win, you pretty much lose the game after that point.
I do not get how commander players play that game. My group only plays legacy and I would not even consider Teferi's Protection as part of any of my decks. How do you play MTG if you keep three (!) mana open?
Non-cedh commander is wayy slower than legacy, which gives you more chances to leave up extra mana. Also since it’s 4 player you need to go through 3 turns to get back to you, so teferis protection essentially makes you invincible for 3 opponents turns as opposed to 1 in a 1v1 format. It also combos with any board wipe, land destruction, etc to keep your own board alive!
Yeah people treat it like effectively straight card draw. But even if you look at it so generously its effectively card draw for the 8th or worse card in your hand.
Tomer’s take on Land Tax is absolutely based. I have a turbodraw deck with Volo, Itinerant Scholar and Land Tax clears my deck of sooo many lands it is probably the best card in my deck by far. In a color combination where you don’t have fast mana or reliable ramp, it is just an autoinclude for me, more than Smothering Tithe (Smothering tithe is generally better tho).
I think for white it's the white instant-tutor (can get many of your picks in different colors). For black two tutors. Green creature-one in conversation too? if you replace any card at any table at any time for draw or hand - low-costing-tutors won't dissapoint. It's just not fun. And no - Richard didn't play 5 years spot removal...
Land tax + scroll rack is the most underrated draw engine in the format. Actual ancestral recall every turn. Also how is fierce guardianship better than force of will?
I think it is an oversight not to mention Green Sun's Zenith as one of the top green cards. In combination with Dryad Arbor in the 99 you have the option to ramp for just one green mana and in the late game you're able to find your win condition. I also think Birthing Pod deserves to be mentioned. Just like Survival of the Fittest it is a repeatable tutor.
Deflecting Swat is so good because you can change ALL the targets of a spell or ability. Changing all the targets of a Heliod’s Intevention or a By Force for free is game changing. It’s worlds better than other similar spells, including Bolt Bend. Richard needs to play it to appreciate its true power!
Re direct extra turns for free feels so good
Listening to you talk about spot removal makes it feel like I'm playing a totally different game.
There's a reason commander clash games last 2 - 3 hours.
@@DrexSinisterexplain that logic. If people can't stop things doesn't that mean the game should end faster
@@mark1A100 Throughtout the episode they bring up cards like Farewell and Ondu Inversion multiple times. My comment was pointing to the fact that, most problems they have in game are answered by just wiping the board clear of everything with said cards. This exact situation comes up a lot of times in their commander clash series. Hence leading to very long games. This can be verified by Crim's love for Skyclave Relic and other indestructible mana rocks.
It's highkey delusional to me. I get that you don't net the same amount of value as you would in a many-for-one with other cards, but sometimes you NEED to snipe down a single card to continue advancing your gameplan or preventing someone from going off. Passing the buck off might work, but that's nothing to hang your hat on when you have no way of preventing it from happening. Like if someone assembles something like Gravecrawler + Plague Belcher + Phyrexian Altar what good is your wipe? Generous Gift could get that Altar, but are you always going to be able to keep up 3 versus 1 mana? Swords isn't a sexy card when you could be doing more exciting things, but if it lets you clear away a relevant threat or prevent something degenerate then it's well worth it.
It's just a far cry from EDH games that I've played over the last decade with experienced players. They will absolutely make you pay if you don't interact with them in a meaningful way.
@@shamizy It most likely is a result of their contained meta. Aside from Tomer, most of the commander clash crew seem to be primarily Arena and Online players.
This conversation is extremely interesting for revealing the very differences between "causal" edh and CEDH. Definitely two different worlds in the same universe.
Swords to Plowshares is the single best spot removal ever printed.
Agreed. The only thing that I can think of that comes close is deadly rollick/snuff out
When Richard said "Saffron Olive, better known as Seth" I felt that cause I never actually knew Seth as Saffron Olive I only knew him as Seth from these videos so Tomer always saying "better known as Saffron Olive" I was just like "Who?" Lol
To me he will always be Seth better know as "Seth better known as saffron olive"
He makes a lot of popular decks as "saffronolive" so if spend time on mtggoldfish browsing popular brews, your probably see that pseudonym pop up pretty frequently.
i only know him as "seth better known as saffron olive" lol
And sometimes he's just probably better known as saffron olive. Btw don't eat a saffron olive??
Seth better known as Tomer's friend
From a math perspective land tax does really create a noticeable deck thinning effect as long as it triggers a few times.
It also combos with cards that get lands out of the gy. Like splendid rec
Yeah lol plus deckthinning may not have been as much of a thing back in 2015, but nowadays we play through half our deck almost every game and getting the lands out matters a whole lot when you're down to 40 cards in library total
Agree! It triggers three times and you've thinned your deck by 10%. That is significant.
it is a good card in certain decks but top 1? It is only good if you draw it turn 1
@@commanderpower99 Oh I wouldn't say it is top 1. Just pointing out that deck thinning is a real thing. I would probably put smothering tithe and teferi's protection in my top 2. Still think land tax would be in the top 5 of generally useful.
I haven't played commander for months, but it's still super entertaining to listen to these four's hot takes.
If you put Bojuka Bog into your deck, it will always either be in your opening hand or never seen lol
I can count on one hand the number of times I've gotten a bojuka bog at a convenient time lol
@@NoNo-qt4ov I CANT count on my hands how many times people have drawn bojuka bog when they need to exile my graveyard decks.
I generally try to find room for bog in any of my decks that run black assuming I have the space to run it as a utility land, but if I have more important utility lands to run then it may not make the cut, but it is one of the better utility lands in commander, especially these days where the graveyard is relevant for almost any kind of deck anymore. But I usually have it either as one of two lands in my opening hand, or it shows up when it may kind of do something, but not really because it didn't really matter in the end, so I felt this comment pretty heavily. 😆
This is so true… I think I have played turn 3 useless bog more then I have ever used it and it’s been actually useful
That is why you run Crop Rotation.
So funny. This week Tomer managed to kill me while I was out under Teferi's Protection with poison and proliferate. That was a good reminder that Teferi's Pro isn't an absolute certainty of survival.
I laughed my ass off when richard announced the artifact list 1:10:28 BODY AND MIND? KALDRA?
I'm glad someone has finally explained why arcane denial is actually one of the best non free conterspells in the commander format. I know not everyone likes it but I'm happy Tomer explained it.
I think the best way to explain Arcane Denial is to point out that it is a cantrip that polymorphs any spell into Divination instead. When have you ever been upset that an opponent casted Divination in commander, especially if it costed them seven or eight mana? People are happy to turn most permanents into Centaur Courser with Beast Within for a higher cost and no cantrip.
@@Kryptnyt Underrated comment^
@@Kryptnyt I think some people don't even understand why Divination is really bad, there's several steps to understandng why Arcane Denial is so good. A normal counter spell puts you a card behind 2 people and pisses off someone. Arcane Denial puts you 1 card behind one person, and they might not even be that mad about it. It's not even 2 blue pips!!! Could go into any deck with blue.
Arcane Denial is great because your opponent doesn't draw cards outright. In your critical turn, it's just hard counter. And there is always an option to counter your own spell to draw 3 cards. I don't play Counterspell anywhere. I play Arcane Denial everywhere. I even play Delay before Counterspell but that's just me.
@@SamuelKacerik you should always play arcane denial over counterspell. Counterspell has no place in commander. Way way way too many options to pick over it.
With Necropotence, you’re not necessarily a sitting duck until you untap like Seth and Tomer were saying. You get the cards in hand at your end step, so you can often get a bunch of Force of Wills, Fierce Guardianships, and whatever other free spells to protect yourself until your turn when you pop off. I’m excited to see Crim start running it 😂
Also, they mentioned somewhere: would you play 6+MV variants of cards? They literally banned it, it's called Griselbrand. Crim is going to pop off coming up here.
They probably think it's bad because they don't play instant speed interaction.
@@wigglepants Griselbrands effect is much better then Necro, it doesnt have the exile downside and you get the cards immediately.
The one person we had who played it took it out because it was busted.
@@TenshiArixFree Griselbrand!!!
Is Richard physically capable of giving a non-contrarian opinion?
nope
Richard is only capable of giving tge correct answer! :D
He's physically incapable of giving an intelligent opinion.
It's a miracle he wins so often. His takes are garbage.
@@mellowyellow5427 honestly less of a miracle and more about him "abusing" the meta they play in.
Everyone tries to do their funny-unique-deck-theme and pop off with it, winning being a coincidence if it happens. Whereas Richard plays to win, using his funny built deck.
That means he leans back, avoids attention and then goes in once the other three have fought each other enough.
The real miracle is how the other players *still* haven't caught up to it and started punishing his playstyle.
Seth is getting better at debating, not that he was bad before but I feel like he’s leveled up
I find Seth usually is the voice of reason when someone puts in a absurd take like Richard claiming Rift is overrated
He was not playing around this episode 😂 bro was AGGRESSIVE in attacking the dumb takes this time
@@ammonaustin9081 I appreciate that he and Tomer value cards that win games a little more. Enablers can give you an advantage early and win games in 1v1, but the guy jumping into first place in the first 10 metres of a marathon is going to lose to a guy that just gets into a car at some point. Bad analogy maybe.
Awwwww man. I personally really think that Necropotence is a top 2 black card. I get the tutors but Necropotence is 3 mana draw 15. I can't really see how that is overrated.
When Seth that Sword of Body and Mind "isn't even in the Top-2 Swords" list I lost my mind laughing. I totally agree. Seth SLAYS lol
0:00 Intro
1:44 Great Designer Search Results
3:39 White
21:41 Blue
29:43 Black
44:33 Red
55:00 Green
01:10:26 Colorless
1:26:04 Non-Color-Fixing Lands
01:42:21 Outro
My picks
White
1. Smothering Tithe
2. Teferi's Protection
Blue
1. Rhystic Study
2. Fierce Guardianship
Black
1. Demonic Tutor
2. Vampiric Tutor
Red
1. Dockside Extortionist
2. Literally Slicer
Green
1. The Great Henge
2. Nature's Lore/Three Visits
Colorless
1. Sol Ring
2. Mana Crypt
Non-Color-Fixing Lands
1. Ancient Tomb
2. Urza's Saga
My List (Not including archetype-specific cards)
White: Esper Sentinel / Smothering Tithe
Blue: Rhystic Study / Force of Will
Black: Demonic Tutor / Vampiric Tutor
Red: Dockside Extortionist / Jeska's Will
Green: Gaea's Cradle / Boseiju, Who Endures (I know these are technically colourless but they are the best)
Colourless: Mana Crypt / Sol Ring
Utility Lands: Urza's Saga / Otawara, Soaring City
I think Boseiju is a great argument for one of the best green cards I agree
Disagree with ur green selections u can’t put lands there put em in utility lands stop cheating
Cyclonic Rift will win you the game as an offensive card, but Richard only talks about it as a defensive card.
Cyc Rift on your opponent's turn, untap and win without any resistance. Permanents are so powerful, and this scoops them all up.
In the green discussion I missed the Seedborn Muse. It may not see play in every deck but I feel it deserves an honorable mention.
If we're doing honourable mentions I wanna give a shout out for "defense of the heart".
Prob not a top 5 green card but it's a seriously underrated card that I think more people should try or at least have on their radar.
(3g enchantment, at the beginning of your upkeep if an opponent controls 3 or more creatures, sac defense of the heart and search your deck for two creatures and put them into play).
Just popped this into my mono G Ezuri deck. Keen to see how it goes.
Is there a way to view all of the crews' decklists compiled together? Like all of Richard's decks, all of Crim's decks etc. Scrolling thru the articles is kind of a pain.
Agreed, I've been trying to find more Codfather decks to test his theories lol
The thing about TefPro being "reactive" is that the thing it's reacting to is something that will happen literally every single game.
Edit: Seth saying Swords/Path are overrated doesn't surprise me considering he plays the least targeted removal I've ever seen because "it only hits one person" which is kind of the commander clash modus operandi in general
This episode was extra hostile and I’m here for it 😂 love seeing the crew defend their cards.
Definitely team tomer/Crim on this one. My favorite thing to do with land tax is fill up my hand and cast valakut awakening. There’s so many ways to use extra cards in hand, even if they’re lands.
It’s good to see more of Richard! Is he going to keep being around or is Phil just busy?
I think they said Phil is taking a break for this season. So as of right now this is the 4 people you will see the most often I think.
Phil also lives in Germany so there is a large time unavailability
Phil's taking a break from the cast this season, but he'll still be around as a fill in when other people need a day off and might come back as a full time cast member in the future
@@MTGGoldfishCommander Much love to Phil. Really enjoy having him on the cast and clash.
I know Phil has also said he loves listening to the Podcast, so now that he's not on it, he gets to listen to it again.
Some spicy takes from everyone. I agree that cyclonic rift is weaker now than it has ever been because ETB effects are so much more powerful now. But force of will is 100% the best counter spell. The only time you dont have the extra card to pitch to it, is when youve spent all your cards and are likely able to hard casting it anyway.
In Green, I am extremely partial to Crop Rotation. Grab a bounce land to protect your Urborg from land hate, Mystic Sanctuary to recur a Spell, Bojuka Bog or Scav Grounds for graveyard hate, Urza's Saga for massive artifact tokens (and a Constellation trigger), Valakut to enable bolts, Emergence Zone to enable Flash for a turn, Blast Zone to set up a small specific wrath, World Tree to fix Mana, Volrath's Stronghold to recur some dorks, Sunscorched Desert to ping Tomer for 1, the wizard lab to bounce your Wizard to hand... Depending on your land list, the amount of instant speed utility that Crop Rotation has can be sooo massive.
But I'm definitely rating it higher than it probably truly is :P Just wanted to give a shoutout to my sweet love Crop Rotation.
you sold me
Here's what I'd put as the best before finishing the video.
White: 1) Smothering Tithe 2) Esper Sentinel
Blue: 1) Rhystic Study 2) Cyclonic Rift
Black: 1) Necropotence 2) Demonic Tutor
Red: 1) Dockside Extortionist 2) Jeska's Will
Green: 1) Gaea's Cradle 2) Survival of the Fittest
replace smothering tithe with teferi's protection and i pretty much fully agree
@@dragondest4 Teferi's Protection and all of the hyper efficient tutors are definitely up there for me for sure, so I can see that. Just wasn't sure about putting an extremely strong answer over more proactive cards as the best white card, but I guess Teferi's Protection can be used proactively sometimes.
I reiterate my point that this podcast has turned into: "What's the biggest bullshit I can say to tilt the rest of the group the most" Instead of any real opinions or analysis.
For Black it's definitely the tutors, no question. The fact is that the tutors are 2nd copies of whatever other black card that could compete for those top 2 spots.
I love Crim so much. Each podcast is twice as fun if it has Crim.
Not to mention that Teferi’s Protection can be used offensively if you have a card on the board or a board state that will win the game in your turn!
Richard, here's how to back up your take on spot removal when playing white...
I'm a heavy white player who's messed around with different constructions and I think you've gone a bit too far but there's some credit to your take. The reason is, white has very impressive board wipes. You can leverage that to need fewer single target removal spells, but not replacing them.
Tragic arrogance, hour of revelation, farewell, vanquish the horde and ondu inversion. Play those five then also play teferi's protection, clever concealment and flawless maneuver then you'll be able to dramatically set back opponents and occasionally do it completely one-sided. Setting people so far back will lessen the need for spot removal, so you don't need to go as high as 10 (like some say), but you still want at least 5 and a mixture of creature/non-creature.
I think a lot of people imagine board wipes as creature only, but white's wipes do a lot more than that and it's why they can actually affect your deck building.
However, for other colours I think it's a tougher argument to make.
I agree with crim, farewell is such a robbery card. Anytime i see it, its THE difference between the match. the other white cards they listed can be played thru, farewell cripples everybody and sometimes its unrecoverable
About Necropotence, the higher power you play the better it is. The longer the game is going to go as people durtle, the more that skipping your draw step will hinder you. The more that you just need to assemble your thoracle combo the more powerful life for cards is.
You guys realize that Necro gives you the cards on your end step, not your next upkeep, right? Everybody saying you have to "wait a turn cycle" to use the cards as if instants don't exist...
I keep coming back to this cast because of the takes. I really appreciate Richard challenging what most players take to be the golden rules in edh because it tends to open up more opportunities in your deck building when you suddenly don’t feel obligated to save a deck slot for swords. I’ve found, after taking Richard’s advice, that dedicating more deck spots to cards that progress your game plan and improve your consistency tend to be more effective over the long run then a one time removal spell. Sure sometimes not having a swords for a problematic creature can ruin your game but I find it more frustrating when I’m drawing situational cards and not the ones I need to get the win.
Also Richard (and probably Seth) is often times the only boy on the cast that can back up his takes with clear and straightforward reasoning. I really get annoyed when Tomer goes into spazy explanation mode and try’s to rattle off as many meaningless corner cases for a card that tend to add up to nothing.
I think there are two problems with assessing cards like this: the first is that you don’t play cards independently of each other; Craterhoof would be a lot worse without green tutors and vice versa, thoracle and consultation is the single best pair of cards but aren’t the best two single cards.
The other issue is that the power of the cards effect can be mitigated by its symmetry. Farewell is an absurdly strong card, definitely the strongest effect in white, but it’s tough to exploit in a way that leaves you ahead.
Very fun discussion, I will add that Richards point about swords is less and less true the weaker the decks. In low power decks that only use creatures to win (and skew towards Timmy decks with big creatures) swords is an auto include.
W) Esper Sentinel and Teferis Protection
U) Rhystic Study and Cyclonic Rift
B) Demonic Tutor and Opposition Agent
R) Dockside and Underworld Breach
G) Birds of Paradise and Finale of Devastation
CL) Sol Ring and Mana Crypt
Land) Ancient Tomb and Boseiju, Who Endures
This is a list I can get behind!
Has the cast done something similar but for each color combo? Each of the allied and enemy colors, shards, wedges etc. Good episode, good discussions too.
White: Esper Sentinel, Smothering Tithe
Blue: Force Of Will/Negation, Rhystic Study
Black: Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor
Red: Dockside, Jeska's Will
Green: Three Visits/Natures Lore, Sylvan Library
Colorless: Sol Ring, Mana Crypt
Colorless producing Lands: Urza's Saga, Ancient Tomb
Color producing Lands: Gaea's Cradle, Cabal Coffers
For green, I'd go Craterhoof and Sakura Tribe Elder. Hoof just wins games for free in green, and elder is the best ramp as it helps creature synergies while also ramping/fixing on 2. It can even chump an early attack and still ramp, though that's rare.
Think GSZ is the pick. Gets you a T1 dryad arbor if in the opening hand, and it's a solid tutor the rest of the time.
In the green section I like bela ged recovery a little more than eternal. Especially when paired up with a bounce land. Value baby.
Yeah, but eternal can be blinked and is a creature in green. Bala ghed is technically more versatile, but I would say that witness is still slightly better. Both really good cards though.
I feel like people forget Time Twister is legal in this format
Yes, but nobody plays it, because it's too expensive. Everyone would just make hypotheticals on why it's so good without really taking into experience why it's so good
"Non-Richard people, is Dowsing Dagger just Richard's Sword of Body and Mind?" - quote of the year
I was literally listening to PUP right before putting this on. PUP is my favorite band, love seeing Crim reppin thier merch!
I'm going to advocate for Ranger-Captain of Eos as one of the best white cards.
Its first ability is incredibly versatile; it can get you a stax piece like Esper Sentinel, or a Mother of Runes to protect your commander, or a key combo piece like Viscera Seer for sacrifice combos; Walking Ballista for infinite mana combos, Skirk Prospector in some Winota lists, and many others. As more cards are printed, this tutor effect is just going to keep getting more powerful (and, having your tutor strapped to a creature spell dodges a lot of popular counterspells!)
The second ability has two uses; it can protect your combo on the turn you want to go off by shutting down opponent's counterspells, OR it can disrupt your opponents when they are trying to combo off themselves. Having this effect on an activated ability also makes it tricky to counter!
So while I agree that Farewell is the best wrath in white, and Teferi's Protection is the best 'Peace Out!' in white, none of them offer the flexibility that Ranger-Captain brings to the battlefield - that puts it at the top for me :)
Richard insisting cyclonic rift is a "terrible" card then putting gamble as one of the top cards in red gave me a brain hematoma.
Agree with Seth on White
For Blue I think it's a little closer, Fierce Guardianship is amazing when you're more setup and defending your commander/engine, but maybe outclassed by other free counters when stopping someone else while you're not set up (with commander on board).. Not sure on this, but Rhystic Study feels right at #1/#2
Black is tough... I lean toward demonic > vampiric. Reanimate may be my other pick of the options they have. Glad they brought up Necropotence and Bolas's Citadel because those are interchangeable with the top #1/#2 to me (deck dependent)
For Red, Richard is a troll
Green IDK how to evaluate. Kneejerk reaction leaning toward Sylvan Library and Great Henge
Richard lives in fear of wraths that are way less common than he believes.
The non mana fixing lands one is tough. I think you could shuffle any of the lands they picked into 2 random lands and it could be correct honestly.
"When was the last time you saw someone splice onto arcane?"
someone play this man the clip of tomer overblazing a land!
If there is no Necropotence after the debacle from last time so help me…
Richard saying cultivate is top 2 green spell is a huge tilt. Even if you wanted that slot for cultivate or kodamas reach - Nissa's pilgrimage is strictly an upgrade with 0 downside
Pilgrimage is only better in mono green.
Bola’s Citadel is a game finisher, and underestimated by many. 6 mana is nothing when players can run away with it in the game.
My playgroup has a whiteboard for our commander days that has recently added an adjacent category to the t1 Sol Ring, we now also mark t1 Bojuka Bogs for the memes.
Surprised Crim didn't say "Ezuri's Predation" as his top green spell since it is a wrath.
Unironically it is one of my favorite green spells as it is usually a finisher as well as an unavoidable wrath(unless they have pro-green/indestructable).
My Top 2 Cards in Each Color
White
1. Enlightened Tutor
2. Esper Sentinel
Blue
1. Rhystic Study
2. Thassa’s Oracle
Black
1. Necropotence
2. Demonic Tutor
Red
1. Gamble
2. Dockside Extortionist
Green
1. Crop Rotation
2. Burgeoning
Colorless
1. Sol Ring
2. Skullclamp
Lands
1. Gaea’s Cradle
2. Ancient Tomb
Sylvan library is a house in my tolsimir friend of wolves deck. Its almost always what i tutor for. Im with Crim!
When Tomar says, “you’re a green deck so you’re creatures.” Makes me chuckle lightly as someone who’s made multiple green decks with few creatures. Like my Thrasta storm deck or my new Yargtani deck which has less than twenty creatures I believe.
Love the shirt Crim! PUP is amazing!! Great podcast as always. Look forward to it every week!
Holy shit, I knew Seth had good taste in music, but Crim wearing a PUP shirt caught me off guard. What a fun band.
Land tax has my vote for best white card but also a fun card. Missing land drops is one of the worst experiences of playing edh. Any card that can reduce that risk is a great card for me.
I'm suprised that there was no mention at all for Akroma's Will that card has been crazy powerful for me. Also surpised to not see Ad Nauseam on the Black list.
Ad Nauseam is pretty awful in non cEDH commander. There are *some* non cEDH decks that can run it, but in general the CMC is far to high in the vast majority of decks to make it a viable spell.
@@dakodastevens8972 According to EDHREC the average curve sits at about 3, including lands that'll go down to around 2, so Ad Nauseam can easily draw you some 10 cards for 5 mana and 20 life even in that world.
Yes, sure, Ad Naus isn't the "draw 30 and win" card it is in Turbo Naus decks in cEDH, but this video includes Rhystic Study, Vamp and Demonic, Crypt and Gaeas Cradle so it's clearly not a list intended for purely casual decks, and Ad Nauseam will be good if you're playing a deck that looks to execute a combo.
@@Fogshaper I would argue that paying 20 life and drawing 10 cards and not winning the game on the spot is probably a bad thing (No one plays ad naus fairly, you are definitely trying to combo and everyone knows it). The majority of decks also don't run consistent curves, they run a handful of higher CMC stuff and hitting a couple of those can just ruin it as well. Its inconsistent, outside a very narrow range of decks and in general there are better options for finding combo pieces and for trading life for resources. Necropotence being one, any of the tutors, tainted pact, demonic consultation to name a few more. Again, there are *some* decks that can run it (The mono black Sidisi/sickening dreams deck comes to mind), but at the end of the day it is still a very niche card.
Would be very curious what the top 10 looks like for each of you (or at least top 5). That context would have made the video a lot more informative/interesting (and probably packed a lot more surprises once scaling to 10).
If your argument with farewell is how easily it can be replaced, there are dozens of protection spells you can replace TefPro with as well, but nothing is replacing smothering tithe, except maybe hullbreacher which is banned
Nah, Tomer's correct. Gaea's Cradle is absolutely busted. Its base is a Forest with one creature. Anything after that and it's already the best land in the game. It's Ancient Tomb if you have just 2 creatures...in a deck playing green!
Crazy to me how many potentially super relevant cards Urza's Saga tutors even excluding Sol Ring or Crypt. Skullclamp, Shadowspear, The Ozolith, Altar of the Brood, Colossus Hammer, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Witch's Oven, etc.
Grindstone 😈
Codex Shredder! Suck it vamp tutor! Taste the chaos senseis top player!
I would have put Crop Rotation as my number one green card. It can put an Ancient Tomb into play untapped as early as turn one, so it counts as ramp and even as a sort of ritual (1 green mana becomes 2 colorless mana). But it's not a dead card like many other ramp cards (Nature's Lore) in the lategame, since you can also get any utility land (maze of ith, Glacial Chasm, Blast Zone, Field of the Dead, Command Beacon, Bojuka Bog, etc). Using it with Lake of the Dead makes it feel even more like a ritual. Yes it is technically card disadvantage, and a blowout if it gets countered, but that's unlikely turn one.
Necropotence suffers from the dredge effect and so i think it's hard to rate
If necropotence (or dredge in 60 card formats) is not played by many people then the hate cards fall out of the meta and necropotence becomes really strong
If a lot of people start playing necropotence suddenly everyone has discard or a wheel effect or 3 in their deck and now you just lose it feels bad and so you stop playing it
And then the cycle repeats forever
Cyclonic Rift actually was printed in a precon. It was in the mono-blue Teferi commander deck from 2014.
With the slight differences in hyper-geometric calculations that have been used to rationalize certain hands as being keep-able or not, I would think the *significant* hyper-geometric improvements Land Tax provides across turns would be recognizable as actual and noticeable draw improvements... literally significant deck thinning when it comes to land vs non-land
not missing land drops is obviously good too xD
Necro is definitely in the top two
Might as well put Ad Naus there too by that logic. I think the fact that those cards are basically impossible to play casually is why they’re not there, granted I would say dockside is also too good for non-cEDH tables lol
@@plannedtuna8293 you have to build around ad naus, necro can still draw 20 in a casual deck
@@plannedtuna8293 Ad nauseum has a much higher drop in power than Necro when moved to casual tables just because of the higher mv. It still is pretty good, but Necro will give you a much higher card per life ratio for two less mana.
@@seandun7083 I get what you’re saying but…I mean, when both spells are pretty much “pay life - draw your deck” I don’t really see one as being more casual friendly than the other lol
@@surfinggarchomp2820 so could Ad Naus 🤔 ….at instant speed before your turn
So I have a 50 card 5C deck half that has 31 lands, and every card I would consider a "staple". I then can pair it with another deck half that is a commander plus 49 other cards (including the basics so they can be customized per commander)
I was happy to see a lot of my best cards in every colour match some of these. For me I have:
White: Teferi's Protection, Smothering Tithe
Blue: Cyclonic Rift, Rhystic Study
Black: Toxic Deluge
Red: Dockside Extortionist
Green: all the ramp you'd think of and Sylvan Library.
I was hoping to get some more ideas but a lot of the alternatives don't fully fit the criteria. For example, one of the commanders that uses this base is ur dragon and so I don't want to put in cards like fierce guardianship that rely on having the commander on the field.
There's no way that fierce is better than force, that's gotta be the worst argument I've ever heard.
sylvan library is amazing! good in cdh but not good enough for low lv?
I been waiting for my 5 color angel in forever... Love the designed congrats!
If you replay the video and pay close attention you will find a group of people who have never played with or against Necropotence!
White: Tefer's Protection & Esper Sentinel
Blue: Cyclonic Rift & Rhystic Study
Black: Demonic Tutor & Necropotence
Red: Jeska's Will & Dockside Extortionist
Green: Sylvan Library & Birds of Paradise
Colorless: Mana Crypt & Sol Ring
Lands: Gaea's Cradle & Urza's Saga
Reply with yours.👇
OH! I loved the artifact segment, just everyone with their hot takes was awesome lol. That sad part is, I can kinda see everyone's point about each card they particularly favor. The issue is that Fast mana will always be the best as it is ramp and it can't be understated how much other colors really need that when compared to green and even red to an extent because of dockside for treasure and jeska's will for explosive mana all the same.
Now as for the Dagger vs Sword debate: I think Dagger wins out in my opinion. Due to the earlier mentioned ramp conversation; when it does flip, its just as explosive as fast mana cards to help you deploy your even bigger bombs or combos. It becomes a lot harder to interact with because it becomes a land and the unspoken rule of 'no touchy lands' is USUALLY an accepted norm. So it ramps and it is harder to interact with once flipped and the odds of you hitting someone in a three player game is pretty high early game.
Sword of Body and Mind...is well a sword lol. It has one of the most relevant protection colors being green, but besides that it usually just draws the wrath of at least ONE player at the table because it is more of a tech piece for mill than anything else. Players don't like being milled; me included, so odds are if I can remove the player from the game or immediately blow up the sword on the principle of not wanting to see my cool cards being thrown away I will. Not because I'm actually afraid of it as Justin Parnell kinda show-cased exactly that feeling you could say. Also it is a artifact that is pretty easy to destroy in this worlds vast amounts of board wipes and just responsible removal if they actually run/use it.
I side with the Cod Father on this one.
I wanna clear this up for you all.. we will just do green.
If you are talking power level all you typically need to do is look at cedh. Obviously there are exceptions even when just talking power due to meta game stuff but let’s say this:
Kodama’s reach isn’t even in the discussion, great henge? I think some fringe decks tested it and abandoned it, natures lore/3 visits is just kinda fine, it’s usually not as good as the two mana rocks because it can’t convert colorless mana from a sol land or like mana crypt into colored mana immediately but they could make low color decks w/out really hurting you I think, Sylvan library was a staple but I’d say it’s partly getting power crept out and it’s also just maybe not as strong as people thought it was but it still gets some cedh play in grindy decks, finale of devastation maybe ought to be in every green x deck in the format just as explained it’s a tutor, it recurs stuff, and it is a win condition.. it’s a silly card.. what else? EWit,, yeah that’s fine, it gets some play in decks that can abuse it or just low color green x decks that have any use for a body.. it is nice that you can grab it w creature tutors and twin flame it or whatever then finally SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST! Best card in green period? Maybe.. maybe.. it’s frickin cracked and if you let it resolve against a deck that’s meant to abuse it you have lost the game 9 out of 10 times.
Some are fringe playable some are just fine, Kodama’s reach is completely unplayable and survival/finale are actually two of the best cards in the color so I guess Tomer wins.
Oh and whoever said birds of paradise is better than the land ramp is just so obviously correct it doesn’t even warrant discussion.
So that’s the answer guys. Great video👍
I've played so many games where if I didn't have swords or path I would've lost.
I legitimately can't bring myself to not have a spot removal package.
Don't forget that Urza's Saga can also tutor artifact lands. That's what I look for in my Breya deck if I've already got Sol Ring and Skullclamp in play.
urzas saga cannot tutor for artifact lands, it explicitly mentions "cost of 0 or 1" not "1 or less." If it could also tutor for artifact lands that would make it way too strong in every format.
@@gabemarshak6873 doh, you're right. I've been playing it wrong.
Fierce Guardianship allows you to play your commander 2 turns earlier than Counterspell. Force of Will does the same, most of the time. Force of Negation does the same, some of the time.
I 100% agree with Richard on Gamble being at least #2. In my chainer deck, it's better demonic tutor. It's either entomb or d tutor for 1 mana.
Obviously the best cards for each color are gonna be enablers (tutors, ramp, card draw, etc.), but I'd love to see a video that discussed the best finishers of each color. It's slightly more of a niche, but it's still a category that people forget to value in their deck as much.
Richard picking cultivate is... Something. We do love our favorite contrarian.
The cool thing about casual commander is how you can make a decent argument for like 20 different cards of each category as being the best card of its color.
Yes technically I'm sure there are defacto 1 or 2 answers, but it doesn't take a ton of convincing to have people change their #3 or lower answers.
Question...why do so many of the best cards just go get other cards? what are the best Non tutors? what are the cards you are going to get?
my top 4 green would be 4- berserk 3- heroic intervention 2-bala ged recovery 1-sakura tribe elder, every green deck I have (owned and brewed) included these four
I find it interesting that Richard talks down to all the “armchair Commander players” in the comments, when most of the people who tune in to a podcast like this are casual players like me who play pickup games at the LGS all the time, while these guys’ opinions are largely influenced by playing against each other in a very specific meta. We tune in to get good card ideas and advice, disparaging our real-world pickup experience is cringy
I think that the issue with real-world pickup experience (and its relation to commander content concerning power in general) is that most metas are very weak. Even the 'cutthroat' players at many stores IME have power level 6-7 decks max. This is also where the goldfish group lies (roughly). The problem is that the best things at power levels 6&7 are completely different from the best at levels 3-5 (where I believe most decks lie) and levels 8-9 (10 being cedh). The best things at your lgs aren't helpful to Richard and this podcast because it's unlikely that the power-meta lines up with the goldfish power-meta. For an example of higher power content, check out some of the older nitpicking nerds content, which is focused on very high power decks without edging into cedh territory. Comedian mtg for cedh
Looool some people are big mad at Richard spitting facts
@@light-chemistry yeah bro it's kinda funny. Like we're not saying that you being bad/casual is a bad thing, it just makes your opinion inherently less valuable when talking about high power.
I wouldn’t take it to heart, mate. These are four strangers talking. It doesn’t impact your life at all.
@@charliewright2667 What the hell kinda deck is a 3? An un modified pre con these days isn’t even a 3, 5 minimum.
Evidence that esper sentinel is better than land tax. I keep an opener with turn one rhystic buddy, you keep an opener with land tax. Doesn't matter if you go first or I do, I'm ahead on board either way. You're also not actually ramping so you can't keep up with green or fast mana or even mana rocks, and you're not good in 3/4 color because you're probably running fetches, shocks, triomes, maybe duals, and very few basics. So like 2 color or mono white or landfall or something where you can get lands/spells you discard back from the graveyard. It's good but not the best card in white by a long shot.
1. If you put land tax in the top 2, you are underestimating white.
2. Fierce guardianship has a high ceiling with low cmc commanders, but it’s not a top 2 card in any deck.
3. Demonic tutor is a better top decked tutor where vampiric is a better sand bagged tutor.
4. I think deflecting swat should be in the top 2 over will.
5. Where is craterhoof??? The most efficient finisher in a non combo meta.
Would a 1-cost white Assassin Trophy be better than Generous Gift?
The self contradiction is so insane
I think a key note for Necropotence is if your deck can win the following turn. It's so good that you will warp the game around you immediately, but its slow. If you cant pay 15 then immediately win, you pretty much lose the game after that point.
Everyone keeps talking about the next turn. Don't wait. You can cast instants. Smh
I do not get how commander players play that game. My group only plays legacy and I would not even consider Teferi's Protection as part of any of my decks. How do you play MTG if you keep three (!) mana open?
Non-cedh commander is wayy slower than legacy, which gives you more chances to leave up extra mana. Also since it’s 4 player you need to go through 3 turns to get back to you, so teferis protection essentially makes you invincible for 3 opponents turns as opposed to 1 in a 1v1 format. It also combos with any board wipe, land destruction, etc to keep your own board alive!
Glad to hear Richard speaking the truth about reliquary tower
Yeah people treat it like effectively straight card draw. But even if you look at it so generously its effectively card draw for the 8th or worse card in your hand.
Tomer’s take on Land Tax is absolutely based. I have a turbodraw deck with Volo, Itinerant Scholar and Land Tax clears my deck of sooo many lands it is probably the best card in my deck by far.
In a color combination where you don’t have fast mana or reliable ramp, it is just an autoinclude for me, more than Smothering Tithe (Smothering tithe is generally better tho).
I think for white it's the white instant-tutor (can get many of your picks in different colors). For black two tutors. Green creature-one in conversation too? if you replace any card at any table at any time for draw or hand - low-costing-tutors won't dissapoint. It's just not fun. And no - Richard didn't play 5 years spot removal...
Land tax + scroll rack is the most underrated draw engine in the format. Actual ancestral recall every turn.
Also how is fierce guardianship better than force of will?
I think it is an oversight not to mention Green Sun's Zenith as one of the top green cards. In combination with Dryad Arbor in the 99 you have the option to ramp for just one green mana and in the late game you're able to find your win condition. I also think Birthing Pod deserves to be mentioned. Just like Survival of the Fittest it is a repeatable tutor.