We will not be the unpaid intern generation any longer | David Leo Hyde | TEDxLUISS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- David Leo Hyde recently sparked a worldwide debate on intern rights after sleeping in a tent in Geneva while working as an unpaid intern for the United Nations. In his speech, while directly addressing some organizations, David explains why it is our moral duty to ensure that this unequal system comes to an end.
David Leo Hyde is a youth activist and filmmaker from Aotearoa, New Zealand. After resigning from his internship at the UN, his actions form the key piece of an upcoming film, titled “An Unpaid Act”, (directed by Swiss filmmaker, Nathalie Berger) which will examine how young people across the world are being exploited as cheap or free labor.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at ted.com/tedx
If all universities, colleges, students and graduates came together and says NO to unpaid internships then the entry level job might appear again.
thats what we try to do here in quebec :)
@@freb Ban slavery, i mean interships
@@anton7049 Or they should provide paid internship ‼️ to college students ‼️ only, as part of projects or clg Creds
I took an unpaid internship and have never felt so exploited in my life. During internship they were acting like we owed them something.
How long was your internship?
@@iambarbarawalsh :( how r u doing now?
omg and the moment you leave they ghost you be passive aggressive and discard you
Unpaid internships should be outlawed.
Yeah its straight up slavery, the problem is how do people without a degree or experience, they should pay them anyway if they are willing to try them out.
Unpaid internships mostly affect students from poorer backgrounds. Not all students have the option of returning to there parents home in cozy suburbia after hours of unpaid work many have to take care of themselves and/or there families, and not all students can drive mommy's few year old Mazda hand-me-down to unpaid internship everyday, they either don't even have a driver's license/or can't afford a car in the first place. Do companies even realize this?? And even if students are from well off backgrounds, there time is also worth money too! These should be outlawed. They go against our country values of "hard work *PAYS* off"
Why does this not have more likes and views ! Come on millennials we need to advocate together for change
This system is a cess pit of exploitation.
I'm on the z gen,
To all you people saying its ok not to pay interns because they are not providing value.
1. It is statistically less likely that fresh graduates will be able to provide the same amount of value as someone with experience that's a fact; however, that in no way means they don't provide some value and in some cases, talented individuals can provide more value despite the lack of experience. The system of unpaid internships does not recognize how much value you provide. As long as you are providing some positive value you should be compensated, it is not as if it is minimum wage then 0 there is an in-between value they can be paid is it?
2. In lots of cases, unpaid interns are not given due time or training to help them develop their skills further which is one of the key points they are probably there.
3. People are not entitled to a job but they should be entitled to a fair trial for a job. If someone can do a job well and there is an opening for it let them prove themselves. The mindset of you needs experience perpetuates this problem. Secluding someone superficially from there lack of experience is fundamentally unfair.
4. If I was drafted into the military right now and sent into battle with no training do you think I would do as well as I would if I was trained for 2 months? Of course, I wouldn't I perform better when then the system provides me with some value then I, in turn, can provide more value.
5. Everyone should clearly have a living wage. as a society, we should strive to create a greater environment for everyone. Frankly, most people who support unpaid internships seems (in my opinion) to have some resentment for people getting it easier than them, this is a terrible mind set for any kind of progression.
Great speech and very relevant arguments. Unpaid internships is a form of discrimination for those from low-income backgrounds. It's particularly the case when you take into account that youth are those who suffered the most from the last economic crisis
Redon Nade they are white collar chaingangs
I wish I watched this video before i took my unpaid internship.......
Some university courses encourage it or make it mandatory.
Now you know, never do it again and make sure they at least write you a good reference.
Hi, I have an interview next week for an unpaid internship. do you think I should not take it? if yes please let me know why..
Cheers
Don't take it ofc!
Wouldn't have made a difference for me, I'm currently doing my fifth unpaid internship during my education...
@@TheGDEventI You are in the wrong field mate. Pick up something else.
Even in 2019, the future looks grim for us.
Now Universities are requiring internships to graduate, and CHARGING TUITION for the "valuable credits", even though most don't need more credits to graduate. This is absurd.
I am going to protest at my university next week. Wish me luck.
That is funny you just put this! I have to have one to graduate and I have applied to over 40. I am a science major and I tried to acquire a paid one but I had no choice but to choose unpaid. My university is charging me 3,000 just for this internship. I feel robbed.
THAT IS VERY TRUE!!!
It's 2021. There are now companies and organisations that require interns to pay them to do unpaid internships for a learning experience. From paid internships to unpaid internships to paying for unpaid internships. Young people are better off working at supermarkets as human scanners instead.
brilliant! he is the voice of my generation!
In Asian countries like Vietnam, it is so bad over there regarding "unpaid internships". University of Vietnam graduates apply for jobs such as Hotel's or any other jobs, they have to do 4 months minimum UNPAID INTERNSHIP. There after, you will get a monthly salary which is paid one time a month only. It is sad working for free and having no money for food, rent, motorbike gas. It's terrible there.
In canada too.. we are doing 4 months unpaid internship as we are fresher and we ll not get any one month salary. Few companies give paid but its on your luck they ll call you for interview
I remember reading about him living in tent, can't imagine myself doing something like that.
It was so heartbroken when you realized we all are slave to the top of pyramid, but no way out cause that how the capitalism works.
First Martian it only works that way because those in it dictate it.
In the past 4 years I've had 5 unpaid internships... currently at my last one!
can confirm what he said. been an unpaid intern tenfold at high profile companies for the past 5 years and it doesn't bode well with me. at one point i snapped then figured, hey if i'm not gonna earn anything, i might as well embrace the idea of becoming a fulltime neet.
Wow. That was very brave of him.
We should end this exploitation immediately
Employee exploitation is one of the big reasons I boycott as much big business as possible! And I often get scoffed at, even by those suffering directly by said companies. Simply because they feel there is no way difference can be made by my actions ... however, if we all made small differences to how we shop pretty quickly those same companies would need to change their ways or risk going broke or out of business entirely!
Norway is not in EU.
It depends on the job you're doing. If you are a recently graduate electrical engineer, then you can show your innovative skills with the Internet (see TH-camr GreatScott). But, if you are doctor, then you have to do internship since you can't really do a video on DIY human dissection, unless your manager is one of your fan from the deep web. Unpaid internship are so 1980s and 1990s people. Millennials have way more option.
True stuff there.... Kinda worries me
Norway isn’t in the EU but I’ll allow it lol
Unpaid internships (Sigh).
This lad is a hero! A hero to this generation!!!!!!!!!!!
I love my welfare and there is no reason to work in this society...
An internship is a learning experience. if it is a ruse for cheap labor this video is appropriate. But if the purpose is solely education or entry level skill creation then they cannot be grouped with this kind of exploitation. The issue that this ignores is that if students have no experience or employable skills then where do they get started. This is where the entitlement issue is ignored. If there is not profitable value offered but instead is a limited time allotment introduction then an internship serves to vet the candidate and also to identify if there is a career to pursue. Paid internships make sense for many roles and corporate goals. But unilateral definition of exploitation equals internships does not recognize that many simply don't have employable skills. The one size fits all and economic international issues is to simple to describe how small businesses find a solution versus United Nations practices.
Waste of time if they didnt let you learn anything 🙂😇
The "broken employment market" is actually just a normal market flooded with your standard college graduate that has only learned to take value and not to provide value thus far in his or her life. Economically if there are so many interns competing that some of them value the internship enough to take it without getting paid then good for them. It is a win for the company/organization and a win for the intern and I'll explain why.
First, I hope everyone understands that everything he did was consentual. Everything in a capitalist system has to be consentual because all parties have to agree to the interaction. By taking the internship he accepted that he would work and not be paid. He was not forced or coerced into taking the position, he chose to take it. If he was not receiving sufficient value from the interaction then he could have left or refused to take the internship all together. Instead he chose to take the internship and pretend that he was somehow exploited. He calls unpaid internships a disease when really the disease is people who expect to be paid or to take value when they haven't provided value in return.
He talked about how indebted his generation is and fails to recognize that his generation has demanded many things without a means to pay for them. Instead the cost gets passed on through taxes (for government furnished "free" things) to the individuals (business owners mostly) who actually pay most of the taxes because the government has to get its money from somewhere. So at what point does it become okay to use the coercion/threat of force from the government for tax evasion to demand the property of other individuals, which they worked to obtain, to pay for free stuff for people whose only claim to that property comes from their "need" of it? Need being totally subject to the whims of the self-proclaimed needy.
Throughout the talk he mentions the inequality of the current systems. It is true that not everyone is equal in the outcome of their life nor should they be. If everyone was made to be equal in the wealth they were allowed to accumulate or the jobs they were allowed to perform I could not think of a more economically crippling or detrimental social policy. It would undermine the very ability of the economy to grow on its own (because no one can save up enough wealth to start a business) making the citizenry totally dependent on the government. Seeing as he doesn't seem to be satisfied with the UN's performance anyway I can't see how giving them more power would do anything but make the problem worse. If you would like to see a historical example of the failures of a planned economy reference the USSR or any country that has had a planned economy as I am unaware of such a system ever not collapsing long term. Equality of outcome is a terrible idea. Equality of opportunity in the eyes of the law is good idea so long as it is limited to the law and not used to force people to do things against their will.
I'm sure I upset more than a few college graduates with my initial statement that they have taken value but not provided it. And I know many are looking to get a job so they can provide value, but they are doing it in the wrong way. Most college students either know what they want to do or decide what they want to do for a living while at college. The problem with this, as the students soon find out, is that just because you have the skills or knowledge for something doesn't mean people have a need for them. No one in the Sahara is going to pay you for more sand. So find a way to provide value that other people (employers included) need.
He ends the talk by suggesting companies and organizations pay their workers a "fair wage". Fair being an arbitrary distinction made by people who claim to have been wronged when they don't provide more value than the next person yet still demand to be paid more. People have the right to make their own choices and if an individual believes an unpaid internship is worth partaking in I don't believe his or her right to make that choice should be legislated away in the name of fairness. Again, capitalism is the most fair kind of economy because all parties must consent for an interaction like an internship to occur. Otherwise government coercion forces people or companies to make decisions they may not want to.
Not long winded, but just hitting home the point. Another kid who thinks that things need to be 'fair', oh and HE is the arbitrator of what is fair and what isn't fair. No need to talk about what his major is in and no real need to ask how that is of help to the society, that is another question for another time. And yes, he does come across as a whining millennial.
so not paying people for the work they do is justifiable.. Interesting to see people advocating for slavery in the 21st century.
Mmmarvel the person no. Something is inherently wrong with the current model. At the very least, room and board should be provided.
OK Boomers
A short sighted, entitled "generation"....
Okay boomer
This is awesome, congrats for having the balls to do this. UN's reponse is pathetic 'see they're giggling, they're having a great time' hahaha. what a joke!
That's not a joke, because it's true. UN interns do indeed have great time :)
Giggles won't pay for rent, pizza, shampoo or even for a toothpick.
thats why i only apply to paid ones. i know my time is worth money, no matter what a company says.
Yeah the problem is most if not all start from exploiting workers, just look at chinese workshops, we would’nt be able to communicate without them, thats why we need everyone to help the ones below us when we can, just by starting small, we can change alot.
Brilliant demonstration. Thanks for being the voice of thousands of students, interns and young professionals around the world, Mr. Hyde!
Excellent presentation. But don't you wish he had mentioned the hard-working organizations like FII Geneva that have been working on this issue for years? Or did I miss that acknowledgment? Has he since responded to their attempts to connect with him? What happened to the money we raised to help feed him when he first arrived and set up his tent?
We're not here to tell Mr. Hyde who he should have mentioned or not. Regarding your strange last 2 questions, we never 'attempted' to connect with him nor we ever tried to raise any money for him.
Who is here after LinkedIn post??
me lol
All work should be paid. We are living in the 21-st century and still let unpaid labor exist. What a shame.
Intern: Pay the interns!
Employer: We don't do that here.
This should have hundreds of thousands of views
It is shameful, I agree that entities or person should stand for what they claim to belong to.
2021, post-pandemic situation, unpaid 'remote' internships more rampant than ever, and I fear there's still more to come. Sad
Hello, I am from Bangladesh. I always dream to work with UN. So I have developed my English quite a lot, developed some of skills these are necessary to be a part of UN. But it is really shocking to me to implement my dream due to its unpaid interns for being a student of a poor country. Honestly, I have tremendous excitement to work with. shocking,,,,,
dude the west is falling soon. China will rise.
Brilliant talk! Any company that doesnt pay interns should be abolished
I am doing interviews for unpaid internships this week and one company was going hard on me for literally anything and everything that could be considered as wrong with me, rather than my studies and or work ethic. I am looking for an accountant internship/position nothing to do with sales.
Please tell me you got something paid eventually. Accounting is a field with a plethora of paid internships. Any company that doesn't is ripping you off.
This is simple an Injustice, Im going to study International Studies and I'm planned to take an internship at the UN, I hope in a few years UN start to pay :(
Very nice !
Awkwkw still unpaid
writing a comment for the algorithm
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The "broken employment market" is actually just a normal market flooded with your standard college graduate that has only learned to take value and not to provide value thus far in his or her life. Economically if there are so many interns competing that some of them value the internship enough to take it without getting paid then good for them. It is a win for the company/organization and a win for the intern and I'll explain why.
First, I hope everyone understands that everything he did was consentual. Everything in a capitalist system has to be consentual because all parties have to agree to the interaction. By taking the internship he accepted that he would work and not be paid. He was not forced or coerced into taking the position, he chose to take it. If he was not receiving sufficient value from the interaction then he could have left or refused to take the internship all together. Instead he chose to take the internship and pretend that he was somehow exploited. He calls unpaid internships a disease when really the disease is people who expect to be paid or to take value when they haven't provided value in return.
He talked about how indebted his generation is and fails to recognize that his generation has demanded many things without a means to pay for them. Instead the cost gets passed on through taxes (for government furnished "free" things) to the individuals (business owners mostly) who actually pay most of the taxes because the government has to get its money from somewhere. So at what point does it become okay to use the coercion/threat of force from the government for tax evasion to demand the property of other individuals, which they worked to obtain, to pay for free stuff for people whose only claim to that property comes from their "need" of it? Need being totally subject to the whims of the self-proclaimed needy.
Throughout the talk he mentions the inequality of the current systems. It is true that not everyone is equal in the outcome of their life nor should they be. If everyone was made to be equal in the wealth they were allowed to accumulate or the jobs they were allowed to perform I could not think of a more economically crippling or detrimental social policy. It would undermine the very ability of the economy to grow on its own (because no one can save up enough wealth to start a business) making the citizenry totally dependent on the government. Seeing as he doesn't seem to be satisfied with the UN's performance anyway I can't see how giving them more power would do anything but make the problem worse. If you would like to see a historical example of the failures of a planned economy reference the USSR or any country that has had a planned economy as I am unaware of such a system ever not collapsing long term. Equality of outcome is a terrible idea. Equality of opportunity in the eyes of the law is good idea so long as it is limited to the law and not used to force people to do things against their will.
I'm sure I upset more than a few college graduates with my initial statement that they have taken value but not provided it. And I know many are looking to get a job so they can provide value, but they are doing it in the wrong way. Most college students either know what they want to do or decide what they want to do for a living while at college. The problem with this, as the students soon find out, is that just because you have the skills or knowledge for something doesn't mean people have a need for them. No one in the Sahara is going to pay you for more sand. So find a way to provide value that other people (employers included) need.
He ends the talk by suggesting companies and organizations pay their workers a "fair wage". Fair being an arbitrary distinction made by people who claim to have been wronged when they don't provide more value than the next person yet still demand to be paid more. People have the right to make their own choices and if an individual believes an unpaid internship is worth partaking in I don't believe his or her right to make that choice should be legislated away in the name of fairness. Again, capitalism is the most fair kind of economy because all parties must consent for an interaction like an internship to occur. Otherwise government coercion forces people or companies to make decisions they may not want to.
"The problem with this, as the students soon find out, is that just because you have the skills or knowledge for something doesn't mean people have a need for them. No one in the Sahara is going to pay you for more sand. So find a way to provide value that other people (employers included) need."
This is true and not explained to people in general, who still buy the snake oil of the seller of dreams.... follow your passion they say. Utter bullshit.
Saying "capitalism" so often leads me to believe that you think somehow he's advocating against capitalism. I'll try to explain why I don't think that's the case.
The word capitalism comes from "capital".
Capital : Already-produced durable goods or any non-financial asset that is used in production of goods or services.
Fiduciary currency stuck in the wheels of finance, such as the billions he refers to, "parked" on fiscal paradises to avoid taxation is not capital. We have a problem right now with injecting currency back into the economy, so serious the ECB has negative interest rates...
Yes capitalism is awesome. It's the best system out of all the known systems. But for it to work it depends on the movement of capital. Capitalism has many faces, mostly shaped by schools of economic though. Keyne's vision is very different from that of Freedman or Mises or more recently from Krugman or Piketty...
"His generation has demanded many things". His generation has demanded absolutely nothing. He's barely old enough to vote. His generation has been sold a broken dream, that education would guarantee you a living wage. Being mostly ignorant and inexperienced they bought it!
People don't get paid based on the value they add to the company. That's an absolute myth. They get paid based on where they stand on the company's hierarchy and how close they are to clients. That's why the higher wages are found in managerial - those with control over cash flow - and sales people - those who close deals and bring in the cash. Top career compensation for a world class engineer, is small change compared to a CEO or sales rep in a large multinational. If what you say was remotely true, all Nobel Prize winners would be billionares, but generally they're not, most of them are not even millionaires. Fiduciary currency and "value" have a very loose correlation.
But in a world where no habitable land is unclaimed you need currency like you need food because you can't get food without it, nor shelter, nor health... so in practice if you are unable to get paid, you are unable to survive, literally!
I'd like to conclude with the consensual part of the issue. Because much of it comes from deceiving expectations sold by the organisations that advertise these positions. Which he also addresses by stating that statistics show that contrary to what's told to you, an unpaid internship has very little influence on your future prospects of employment.
I don't know what fair means. But I know that zero is not fair if that's all you're getting.
There used to be an honourable tradition of mentorship... which was not paid.. true. But there was another currency there: knowledge and time. To learn from a senior, very experienced and skilled person, that would take some time to teach you.
Most internships these days have none of that, interns are regular workers that don't get paid. They're voluntary temporary slaves, but they are still slaves.
I hope that if the data surfaces on the uselessness of these positions to people's careers, they will either be changed to resemble the old mentorships or fade into oblivion.
It's not even just a question of basic justice and human rights. A capitalist society without a strong middle class has higher criminality rates, health issues... etc etc. The middle classes depends on wages for their income, but these positions greatly weaken their ability to negotiate.
+Helga Guerreiro
When you refer to unpaid interns as "voluntary temporary slaves" you miss the point of slavery; that it is involuntary. Otherwise it is merely a social contract which is the foundation of our civilized interactions with other people.
You are right that I believe he is against capitalism. Any kind of reallocation of wealth by force or coercion (e.g. the government) is anti-free market. He talks about demanding his "right" to free health care among other things as if he had a claim to the wealth produced by other people. That is the antithesis of laissez-faire capitalism, freedom and property rights. The only natural rights an individual has are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. Otherwise you end up infringing on someone else's rights. No one inherently owes anyone anything. You must enter a social contract by choice otherwise it is slavery or indentured servitude which I would consider to be evil.
When I say people are paid based on the value they provide you have to remember the part about providing value that people want. If a person's job is to do something specific like operate a machine, but he decides to do other tasks not assigned to him and the company has not expressed a desire to pay for the other tasks the company will still only pay for the one job. And the company will probably only pay market value for that job to be done. You see the real challenge a business faces is making effective use of resources and no company can make use of all the talents and skills their employees have, so a skilled executive is prized for his or her ability to make more things happen with a company's capital. Value is relative to what the company wants and is willing to pay for, not the amount of work done. No company's allocation of capital is perfect, but they do the best they can until someone else can do it better and out compete them. There are companies that make much better use of their employees and value/pay them accordingly, but it's a hard thing to do.
As an added note, I believe capital extends beyond material things. Capital to me is everything from time, money and machines to people to the specific skills and knowledge those people hold. All of these things are relevant to creating wealth.
You mentioned capitalism relying on the movement of capital. This is only partially true because of the nature of wealth creation. You're absolutely right that when the free market is moving a lot of capital around there is a lot of wealth being created. This is because a great deal of voluntary value for value interactions are taking place in which all parties are better off than they were before the interaction. However, the movement of capital is not the source of wealth. Man's mind is the source of wealth because only our minds can shape the world in the way we see fit. Value is created when a person takes some metal and makes a chair or a table. It is valuable because we as humans lend purpose to it. We have a use for it and it makes our lives better. The same is true of none tangible things like an idea. Mathematics is incredibly valuable yet the only capital was man's mind. So you can see how the movement of capital is only partially responsible for wealth creation and is not itself the source of wealth.
Another point I would like to make not specifically related to one of your statements is about the nature of wealth. Many people view wealth as a pie. Something that has a tangible amount. Socialism is all about how you divide up the pie. Capitalism is about making more pies. And when you realize that wealth is created and not simply redistibuted, the solution to poverty and a better world changes considerably: create more wealth. Moreover, I described earlier a few of the difficulties companies have generating wealth. If you add in regulations and wealth redistribution not only do you take away a large amount of the profit incentive, but you make it that much more difficult for a company to do its work. So in my view, the best thing we can do to support wealth creation is to get out of the way of the people who are creating wealth. Hence the term lassez-faire capitalism.
+Helga Guerreiro
When you refer to unpaid interns as "voluntary temporary slaves" you miss the point of slavery; that it is involuntary. Otherwise it is merely a social contract which is the foundation of our civilized interactions with other people.
You are right that I believe he is against capitalism. Any kind of reallocation of wealth by force or coercion (e.g. the government) is anti-free market. He talks about demanding his "right" to free health care among other things as if he had a claim to the wealth produced by other people. That is the antithesis of laissez-faire capitalism, freedom and property rights. The only natural rights an individual has are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. Otherwise you end up infringing on someone else's rights. No one inherently owes anyone anything. You must enter a social contract by choice otherwise it is slavery or indentured servitude which I would consider to be evil.
When I say people are paid based on the value they provide you have to remember the part about providing value that people want. If a person's job is to do something specific like operate a machine, but he decides to do other tasks not assigned to him and the company has not expressed a desire to pay for the other tasks the company will still only pay for the one job. And the company will probably only pay market value for that job to be done. You see the real challenge a business faces is making effective use of resources and no company can make use of all the talents and skills their employees have, so a skilled executive is prized for his or her ability to make more things happen with a company's capital. Value is relative to what the company wants and is willing to pay for, not the amount of work done. No company's allocation of capital is perfect, but they do the best they can until someone else can do it better and out compete them. There are companies that make much better use of their employees and value/pay them accordingly, but it's a hard thing to do.
As an added note, I believe capital extends beyond material things. Capital to me is everything from time, money and machines to people to the specific skills and knowledge those people hold. All of these things are relevant to creating wealth.
You mentioned capitalism relying on the movement of capital. This is only partially true because of the nature of wealth creation. You're absolutely right that when the free market is moving a lot of capital around there is a lot of wealth being created. This is because a great deal of voluntary value for value interactions are taking place in which all parties are better off than they were before the interaction. However, the movement of capital is not the source of wealth. Man's mind is the source of wealth because only our minds can shape the world in the way we see fit. Value is created when a person takes some metal and makes a chair or a table. It is valuable because we as humans lend purpose to it. We have a use for it and it makes our lives better. The same is true of none tangible things like an idea. Mathematics is incredibly valuable yet the only capital was man's mind. So you can see how the movement of capital is only partially responsible for wealth creation and is not itself the source of wealth.
Another point I would like to make not specifically related to one of your statements is about the nature of wealth. Many people view wealth as a pie. Something that has a tangible amount. Socialism is all about how you divide up the pie. Capitalism is about making more pies. And when you realize that wealth is created and not simply redistibuted, the solution to poverty and a better world changes considerably: create more wealth. Moreover, I described earlier a few of the difficulties companies have generating wealth. If you add in regulations and wealth redistribution not only do you take away a large amount of the profit incentive, but you make it that much more difficult for a company to do its work. So in my view, the best thing we can do to support wealth creation is to get out of the way of the people who are creating wealth. Hence the term lassez-faire capitalism.
+Helga Guerreiro
When you refer to unpaid interns as "voluntary temporary slaves" you miss the point of slavery; that it is involuntary. Otherwise it is merely a social contract which is the foundation of our civilized interactions with other people.
You are right that I believe he is against capitalism. Any kind of reallocation of wealth by force or coercion (e.g. the government) is anti-free market. He talks about demanding his "right" to free health care among other things as if he had a claim to the wealth produced by other people. That is the antithesis of laissez-faire capitalism, freedom and property rights. The only natural rights an individual has are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. Otherwise you end up infringing on someone else's rights. No one inherently owes anyone anything. You must enter a social contract by choice otherwise it is slavery or indentured servitude which I would consider to be evil.
When I say people are paid based on the value they provide you have to remember the part about providing value that people want. If a person's job is to do something specific like operate a machine, but he decides to do other tasks not assigned to him and the company has not expressed a desire to pay for the other tasks the company will still only pay for the one job. And the company will probably only pay market value for that job to be done. You see the real challenge a business faces is making effective use of resources and no company can make use of all the talents and skills their employees have, so a skilled executive is prized for his or her ability to make more things happen with a company's capital. Value is relative to what the company wants and is willing to pay for, not the amount of work done. No company's allocation of capital is perfect, but they do the best they can until someone else can do it better and out compete them. There are companies that make much better use of their employees and value/pay them accordingly, but it's a hard thing to do.
As an added note, I believe capital extends beyond material things. Capital to me is everything from time, money and machines to people to the specific skills and knowledge those people hold. All of these things are relevant to creating wealth.
You mentioned capitalism relying on the movement of capital. This is only partially true because of the nature of wealth creation. You're absolutely right that when the free market is moving a lot of capital around there is a lot of wealth being created. This is because a great deal of voluntary value for value interactions are taking place in which all parties are better off than they were before the interaction. However, the movement of capital is not the source of wealth. Man's mind is the source of wealth because only our minds can shape the world in the way we see fit. Value is created when a person takes some metal and makes a chair or a table. It is valuable because we as humans lend purpose to it. We have a use for it and it makes our lives better. The same is true of none tangible things like an idea. Mathematics is incredibly valuable yet the only capital was man's mind. So you can see how the movement of capital is only partially responsible for wealth creation and is not itself the source of wealth.
Another point I would like to make not specifically related to one of your statements is about the nature of wealth. Many people view wealth as a pie. Something that has a tangible amount. Socialism is all about how you divide up the pie. Capitalism is about making more pies. And when you realize that wealth is created and not simply redistibuted, the solution to poverty and a better world changes considerably: create more wealth. Moreover, I described earlier a few of the difficulties companies have generating wealth. If you add in regulations and wealth redistribution not only do you take away a large amount of the profit incentive, but you make it that much more difficult for a company to do its work. So in my view, the best thing we can do to support wealth creation is to get out of the way of the people who are creating wealth. Hence the term lassez-faire capitalism.
“Voluntary“ is a tricky word. If you’re trapped in debt or poverty, there’s only so much of your choices that are “voluntary”. That’s why we have laws against financial products that trap people in eternal debt for ex.
To talk about “Free Healthcare” is always non sensical. All services provided by the state are paid by the people. Nothing is free. When people talk about “free” they mean, paid for by their taxes. They mean a collective effort for a universal service. There’s a lot to be gained by an “economy of scale“ in such services. However one must put in place checks and balances to guarantee that they are efficient. I understand that in practice this is very hard. However the practice of the “free market” in health is not so much better… looking at the US where breaking an arm can cost you 5k, Even with a 55k per capita income that’s 1/11 of the anual income on average. If you’re unlucky enough to need surgery or be stuck with a chronic disease your life is basically over, yours and your immediate family’s too.. I wouldn’t want to live in a country like that.
“The company will probably only pay market value for that job to be done. You see the real challenge a business faces is making effective use of resources and no company can make use of all the talents and skills their employees have, so a skilled executive is prized for his or her ability to make more things happen with a company's capital”
In theory this is absolutely correct. In practice, most executives write up contracts that protect them against the bad decisions they make. Such that even if they are fired for bad management they’ll still receive fat compensation packages. Bonuses on quarterly gains, incentivise short term thinking and many large companies - ex Nokia - suffered greatly long term for having depleted the company of their senior engineers, in order to benefit from the short term reduced HR expenses.
“The movement of capital is not the source of wealth. (…) Mathematics is incredibly valuable yet the only capital was man's mind. “
The last part is correct, exactly how many of the Fields medals are also members of the Forbes top 100? The movement of capital is a necessary condition for the accumulation of wealth. If you have a great brain and come up with a life altering product you’ll only get a return on it when you sell it, and it’s that execution part… where the money - and therefore wealth - really is, getting great stuff to the most amount of people, for the highest value they’re still willing to pay for it. I understand the folk idea is that you get the products at the cheapest value, but that’s not how the world works. If people pay more, it will cost more. Apple is a prime example. For the longest time it had a smaller percentage of the market but still a larger percentage of the profits, both in devices and the store. Developers writing apple apps where getting significantly better returns.
”Capitalism is about making more pies.” In theory. But no one ever explains what the pie is, nor mesures it. We measure the fiat currency that is transacted. There’s loads of it. Some economists are now calling it virtual liquidity. That is “fake” money. We have a very definitive problem to takle which is the unsustainable rate of financialization of the economy, we will pay for it. Either we will assume the cost gradually and correct it, or we’ll fall flat on our faces. Meanwhile china, which actually produces tangible goods all of the world wants to buy will rise as the new economic power. I think probably the latter… The AIIB is establishing it self… The UK is already in.. If I had to bet I’d say 5-10 years for the dollar loose his reserve currency status.
“ create more wealth. ” Correct. But what is wealth? if you can’t express wealth in fiat money, then by today’s standards it’s not wealth. If we’re talking about financial wealth, then it must be expressed in fiat currency. I see nothing wrong with the expansion of the money supply, provided that it maintains a tight relationship with the goods and services available in the economy it represents. The problem we have currently is that since we’ve come out of the gold standard central banks have been scrambling too keep that relationship current. You’d expect that will all the money that was created after the crisis and injected into the banking sector/states, while having very low growth
Entry-level jobs cannot be put as an equivalent to unpaid internship. An entry-level job implies a completely different level of responsibility, scope of work and performance expectations, while an internship is rather an exposure of a young professional who is still studying to the work of a UN organization. It is impossible to meaningfully contribute over a 3 month period (average length of a UN internship) to claim that one deserves to be remunerated. Additionally, UN internship serves the student by satisfying the university requirement of a completed internship in order to graduate.
I don't understand this argument at all.
Internships and entry-level jobs are not the same thing, but the argument of the presenter was that internships are replacing entry level jobs.
Theoretically, interns should not be doing productive work at all. In my country, an internship is considered valid if it is favourable to the INTERN and not the EMPLOYER. If it is productive work the person should be PAID.
The argument is not theoretical. In -reality- if you look at the requirements of many internships, they are indeed PRODUCTIVE work.
Oh and btw, the internship the speaker presented, was AFTER completing study.
Are you saying unpaid work should replace entry level jobs? because that is the logical conclusion of your effort to claim that if you cannot meaningfully contribute, you should not be paid. Hence, completely disregarding the whole meaning of what "entry-level" means.
When it comes to UN, there is no such thing as "entry level job" in a pure sense. Entry level according to the UN job classification requires at least 2 years of relevant professional experience, preferably at the international level. Therefore, it is not a standard entry level. Internships, on the contrary, do not have professional experience requirement - however, they strictly require that the individual is involved in higher-level studies. It is impossible to employ a non-student as a UN intern, as UN internships are seen as part of studies benefitting the student with exposure to the professional area of his/her choice.
I did not say that unpaid work should replace entry level jobs. I said that these - when it comes to UN, at least - are two completely different things that could not be compared - largely, for the previous working experience requirement of the entry level jobs, extremely competitive recruitment procedure, national quota system, and else not applicable to internships.
Vasily Esenamanov which is a moot point if the UN is using internships for entry level jobs so they don't have to hire entry level employees.
I would agree with this comment if it weren't the case that I actually saw UN interns doing the work that paid employees should have been doing. And some of those duties were way above "entry-level" fare.
Wait, wait, wait precious - ask for fair wages for a day's work ... uh, what is fair and who makes that determination??? Demand your rights for healthcare or social security??? Huh? Don't know how it is in NZ, but in USA if you work and make a wage social security will be taken, you have no choice. Healthcare?? If you are working less than 30 hours a week it is NOT part of the package, and why should it be? Again, what are YOU bringing to the table to make me want to extend that benefit to you?? Sorry dear, it is NOT a right. Institutions and companies are 'exploiting' young people?? Really?? Again, what do YOU bring to the table that makes me want - no, makes me crave you?
I can tell you that standing there in your white tee-shirt and jeans doesn't help your cause, your plea, your case in my eyes in any way, shape or form. You talk about 'equality' - what exactly is equality in your eyes/mind? Should a fellow running a street sweeper make as much as a doctor? Should a dentist make the same as a factory worker? Should someone on dayshift make the same as someone working graveyard (usually they pay more for someone to man the graveyard shift).
Then you hammer internships - in my present occupation I was required to 'serve' a summer term of unpaid internship (gasp). But guess what? I brought NOTHING to that job, I learned from my internship, I gained ALOT, but due to my lack of experience and my lack of credentials in that field, I brought NOTHING to the workplace other than slowing them down while I asked questions. Oh, and if I hadn't done an internship, I could not have graduated from my program (see I not only 'worked' for free, I had to pay for a term of college so that I would get credit for my summer).
Was I wealthy? No, and I'm not now, but I would do my internship during the day and then work evening and weekends to make ends meet. However, since I had been going to school and working nights and weekends it really wasn't a change.
You then talk about the 'plan' that you came up with about living in a tent in a very expensive country. One of my friends lived in a van throughout his entire college career to cut down on college expenses. When I graduated from my program I didn't even look at jobs in California because I already knew that going there and trying to live there was (and is) too expensive.
Bottom line, sorry dear, but I can't sympathize with you one iota. You are right, the system is what it is, rather than whine about it (as you've chosen to do) you figure out how to play within it. If you finally get to a point that you can change the system go for it, but get to that position first and not whine about how it's so hard to get to that position. When you play poker at some point during the game you have to play the cards that have been dealt to you, not whine that you don't like those cards. Maybe that's what you need to do, learn to play poker and maybe you'll have a little more insight on how to deal with/handle life.
Well put. I agree. In fact this video inspired me to write my own long winded comment as well if you're interested. I basically say the same.
So your perspective is: "Life sucks for me so it should suck for everyone everywhere"?
"I brought NOTHING to the workplace other than slowing them down while I asked questions"
You got to be placed in a position of learning.. you where lucky. If that was the case you didn't have a job.. it was an extension of your education, that's a different context. He's talking about internships where you actually work like any other element of the team.. but just don't get paid.
About the bringing NOTHING to the table... that paints a worse picture than any white t-shirt.
I hope you learn to value yourself more, fast!!.. I used to think like you.. and It resulted in being exploited for years on end. Look around, there is no direct correspondence between value added and compensation! You get paid based on the distance between you and the companies money, either because you manage it or because you bring in clients... the other people will always be paid the least amount possible regardless of what "they bring to the table".
Edit:
Forgot to mention one very important thing: you change the system, by always looking for better opportunities and dumping the settings that prevent you from growing professionally or exploit you financially. Sure.. always work to bring something valuable to the table, that's you bargaining chip! But know your value! If there's something on the table, it's not zero.
Sorry to disagree, but an internship is an internship. You don't even know where the restrooms are when you get there. Or where the copy machine is, the lunch room, etc. All you are really bringing to the job is your ability to take up space.
An internship where you are another element of a team - Huh? As I stated before, you don't know your way around the building. You don't know who is in which building, let alone which floor. How can you be an element on/of a team when we don't/haven't figured out what you appear to be good and and what your not so good at? Your perspective appears to be that you believe you bring value to the table, okay fine believe that, but until you prove yourself, I would disagree.
I do agree with you on two things, you should always look for better opportunities (doesn't really apply to internships) be the opportunity better pay, better working conditions, whatever perceived value makes the new job/opportunity worth changing jobs. The other point is bringing something valuable to the table is your bargaining chip. However, you may place a higher value on it than the person on the other side of the table. And I still hold fast, that if it's an internship, all you're bringing to the table is your occupation of space.
It's ok do disagree. That's what makes life colourful.
Maybe it's different in your country. I presume you're from the US where the unemployment rate is like 7%. I haven't worked full time there, but I've worked for Americans occasionally and the culture is very different, you all seem to understand people need money to live and in my experience reward people that "bring something to the table" in dollars, not thank you's and "you're a very competent professional, we appreciate the value you add to our company".
I'm from Portugal where the unemployment rate is like 14% and here companies place adds asking for unpaid or very low paid interns WITH experience. It's a nightmare to find a living wage.
Look I started my career with an unpaid "internship" too... but It was years ago... and I can't really complain about that because it was a cool company, the internship was a mont, I was then employed there for about 3 years and loved the experience, I learned a lot, mostly by my self... but still there was space to grow. But this is not the current reality. A very high percentage of job offers are "internships", false internships, they're jobs with very low or no pay.
Like I said, mentorship is something else. If you're there to learn, if there's a senior person teaching you, that's very valuable, maybe even more to you then to the company like you said, but it's not a common reality.
Interns are not monkeys, people learn the company structure in a couple of days, like any other employee. In lower level positions, with scripts, software and a phone there's a lot of value you can bring to the table just by using your brain and fingers to type stuff into some database. You can be secretary, a desk clerk a store front person etc But you can also be a programmer doing menial code, or a journalist inputing content into a site or facebook page. That's the kind of jobs I'm talking about.
Lets start with yes, I'm in the USA. Our official unemployment rate is under 5%, although if you ask most people they would say it's more like about 6 - 7%. If I lived in a country with 14% unemployment I'd take ANY job that I could find (including sweeping the street or garbage collection) and would look to live as cheap as possible, save money and leave - but that's the American in me.
Over here, for many of the newer interns, the internship is REALLY the first time they've held a job. Far too many of them have little to no clue what the work day world is about. I've seen it played out in many areas of business, where asking them (a paid employee) to work overtime brings up complaints. The way I was raised you welcomed overtime because of the difference it makes on your paycheck.
If we didn't have an intern doing whatever the work is, it would just get done by someone who is already here, we (typically) would not go out and pay someone to do the work. If the duties and responsibilities of an interns position warranted a position, we'd hire someone because those duties and responsibilities will still be there and still need to be done after the intern leaves (we would not just look for another intern).
You complain about doing 'menial code, or a journalist input into a site or facebook page' so??? It's a job, I had jobs where there was 'windshield time' meaning I was driving from one place to do a job and then driving to another place - pay was all the same, I just accepted that it was part of the job and did it. Part of my 'I'm not too good for a job' attitude.
I wish you the best and appreciate the banter. This loser (in this video) knew it was an unpaid internship when he applied. He knew it was an unpaid internship when he accepted the position and then he whined about it (and eventually quit on his own accord) after he got it. Bottom line, I label him as a loser.