Luckily I got my question answered at the final of the video with the multi layer farm. This thing is so useful. Thanks for all the explanations throught the video dude. I know more things now about the mob spawning mechanics than before.
Thanks so much. I've seen several videos where the entire area above the farm is cleared and I couldn't understand why they were doing that. Now it makes perfect sense.
I really wish I'd watched this video _before_ I added spawn skirts to my Witch Farm, 20 blocks in each direction for 3 floors. The farm already had a big enough roof to keep the whole spawn skirt area at light level 0. *So* many leaves I didn't need to place, and I don't have Shulker boxes yet so it took a _lot_ of trips between base and the witch farm. Oh well, at least I know for the future I guess.
Thanks, this is a really good explanation that answered basically all of my questions. The wiki does a terrible job of explaining the spawn mechanics. It doesn't even mention the heightmap. But this helped to clarify all the stuff I'd heard and really make it fully understandable. The wiki mentions that the spawn cycle happens once per tick, but does it make a spawn attempt in every chunk once per tick? Or just one spawn attempt in general? The wiki makes it sound like once per chunk per tick but that doesn't sound right to me.
As I understand it, the game picks a chunk in each tick (so 20 times/second) and then attempts 12 spawn cycles in that chunk, with each spawn attempt starting the height map over again.
So if I wanted to increase rates of a Y=-64 spider farm that uses carpet on string to prevent other mobs from spawning, would I need to place a string skirt at the carpet layer? Or would a skirt not help at all since spiders are spawning below the carpet?
If a spawning skirt needs to be made of a non spawnable block is it efficient to make one in the case of a portal wither skeleton farm where they need nether brick blocks to spawn outside the portals?
Excellent explanation! The only thing that confused me is when a spawn failed in the farthest corner and pack spawning made it’s way to the spawning pad, how did it seem like each pack spawn moved 10 spaces for each attempt?
I have another question, if it isn't too much of a bother 😌 In a lot of wither skeleton farms here on youtube, when people build the farm on a crossing, they add a skirt around it, I assume for the packspawning. But according to your explanation, since if the bedrock above isn't removed the hight map goes up to the top anyway, this shouldn't be necessary, right?
Like you would have a 19x19 netherrack platform with wither roses, and then a 4-6 block ring made out of netherbricks around it (covered in carpets or something) on a crossroads in a netherfortress
check out my wither skelly farm video where i go into it in detail. they can only initiate a pack spawn on certain block types. that's why there's a skirt around each layer for wiske farms
This was pretty good, but I would just like to know if me building a giant ice roof on y=128 on top of a witch farm will encourage pack spawning? I see most witch farm builds their roof directly on top I wanted smtg different. How does pack spawning work on mobs with specific spawn areas? Does the game still try to spawn outside it's area? Does the witch farm need a giant roof to get better spawn rates?
@@Stromne I see, so for most types of overworld mob spawns, it would be better to have 0 roof, which can be done with slime chunk farms. But since others need a lower light level, we have to build a roof. And since we're building a roof, building a larger roof horizontally will help encourage pack spawn, but only directly on top of the farm. Am I right? 🤔
I was wondering if you have a skirt around your farm wouldn’t the pack spawns also wander from inside the farm to the outside of the farm and fail just as many times as they fail outside the farm and wander in. I also don’t understand why some people put a 1 block gap of string or air in between the farm and the skirt. Idk I’m not doubting the effectiveness of the spawning skirt because I’ve seen it increase rates on some of my farms but I can’t seem to comprehend why.
That already happens without a spawning skirt. The spawn platform that the spawn attempt starts in sets the y level and a spawn can occur on a corner and wander out into the air, still failing with or without the skirt. So it only affects the starting spawn of the pack spawn
For pack spawning, if it tries to spawn on Y=16, can the "wandering" portion of it cause the spawn attempt to move vertically? Or can it only move horizontally? Additionally, do I understand correctly that the skirt needs to be at the top level of the farm because it raises the height map for the entire farm, allowing the "wandering" mechanic to happen at any Y level underneath it? So if you have 10 platforms underneath the skirt, those 10 platforms all have the possibility of the spawn attempt "wandering" into them. The "wandering" process works in the air?
Pack spawning is horizontal only. The skirt is only required in the top layer to raise hieght map unless the mob for are spawning requires certain conditions, like either skeletons. Most mobs can start spawn attempts in air though
I don't understand something: where does the height map start "counting"? Well, normally, from bedrock, but what happens if someone were to remove the bedrock in some ways and make a platform over the void at a higher level? Would the height map still start from Y-64 or will it start from the first non-air block (and thus having the same spawn rates of a platform at the lowest level)?
So assuming i built a slimefarm in 1.16, without removing bedrock, my lowest spawning layer is y=5, which gives me a 1/5 chance of a successful spawn. Adding a second layer at y=8 gives a 2/8 = 1/4 chance of successful spawning? If this is all there is to it, I don‘t quite understand why it is recommended (it says so on the wiki, and people like il mango have also said so) to only have spawning layers up to y=31 (instead of y=39). It seems to me the more layers you would have, the closer we would get to a 1/3 success rate (since you can have a spawing layer every third block)
Yes and no. You logic with the additional height and change in spawning chance is correct for newer versions of MC. However, the height map used to use the subchunks for the height map in older versions. So the highest subchunk that had a non-air block was the top of the height map. Adding the extra 3 layers in Mangos video slowed his rates because the extra layers added another subchunk to the height map, but didn't fill the subchunk completely with spawning layers. That subchunk height map applied up to 1.12, it was changed in 1.13. So Mango's video for 1.12 is completely correct, but that wouldn't apply to 1.13+
Very nice explanation. I have one question: Does this mean, that If i have a farm at the lowest Y level, with one spawing platform, does this mean if I add one, it will decrease my rates?
yes thats why we use sliced portals in many perimeter farms so that it doesnt have any obsidian above for example if you build a slime farm at y level 5 or less without any blocks above it will produce more slimeballs than adding spawning platforms all the way up to y 39 see 3 levels of slime farms video in this channel for further info
Thanks for a great video, you really explained this well and it will impact how I build spawning platforms from now on. I have a question, even though this will probably be lost in space for being so late. What if you instead of focusing on lighting up all caves near a farm tried to raise the height map for every block outside of your farm? Making spawn attempts outside of your farm more likely to fail so that your farm alone fills the mob cap. For example, you make a near-bedrock slime farm. Instead of excavating the whole nearby area or light up all the caves you can find, what if you went up to the build limit and put down a transparent block everywhere outside of your slime chunk? This could probably also be interesting in the neather, effectively halving the chances for spawns outside your farm (wither skeleton farm for example) If anyone ever reads this and want to brainstorm with me - Thank you
Luckily I got my question answered at the final of the video with the multi layer farm. This thing is so useful. Thanks for all the explanations throught the video dude. I know more things now about the mob spawning mechanics than before.
Thanks so much. I've seen several videos where the entire area above the farm is cleared and I couldn't understand why they were doing that. Now it makes perfect sense.
I really wish I'd watched this video _before_ I added spawn skirts to my Witch Farm, 20 blocks in each direction for 3 floors. The farm already had a big enough roof to keep the whole spawn skirt area at light level 0.
*So* many leaves I didn't need to place, and I don't have Shulker boxes yet so it took a _lot_ of trips between base and the witch farm.
Oh well, at least I know for the future I guess.
Thanks, this is a really good explanation that answered basically all of my questions. The wiki does a terrible job of explaining the spawn mechanics. It doesn't even mention the heightmap. But this helped to clarify all the stuff I'd heard and really make it fully understandable. The wiki mentions that the spawn cycle happens once per tick, but does it make a spawn attempt in every chunk once per tick? Or just one spawn attempt in general? The wiki makes it sound like once per chunk per tick but that doesn't sound right to me.
As I understand it, the game picks a chunk in each tick (so 20 times/second) and then attempts 12 spawn cycles in that chunk, with each spawn attempt starting the height map over again.
Great to see a technical, in depth video on this. Sub'd. A++++++
Can someone explain or recommend a video that explains the height map in Bedrock?
Nice explanation 👍
So if I wanted to increase rates of a Y=-64 spider farm that uses carpet on string to prevent other mobs from spawning, would I need to place a string skirt at the carpet layer? Or would a skirt not help at all since spiders are spawning below the carpet?
If a spawning skirt needs to be made of a non spawnable block is it efficient to make one in the case of a portal wither skeleton farm where they need nether brick blocks to spawn outside the portals?
Great video, really appreciate it
This is very useful. Thank you
Thanks for the Info.
Excellent explanation! The only thing that confused me is when a spawn failed in the farthest corner and pack spawning made it’s way to the spawning pad, how did it seem like each pack spawn moved 10 spaces for each attempt?
The game picks a random number between -5 to 5 on the x and -5 to 5 on the z.
@@Stromne ah I see, thank you for clarifying! Excellent channel by the way I’m glad I found you! A true gem in the rough
Helpful video, but why is it so hard to put in link to the videos you reference?
I have another question, if it isn't too much of a bother 😌 In a lot of wither skeleton farms here on youtube, when people build the farm on a crossing, they add a skirt around it, I assume for the packspawning. But according to your explanation, since if the bedrock above isn't removed the hight map goes up to the top anyway, this shouldn't be necessary, right?
Like you would have a 19x19 netherrack platform with wither roses, and then a 4-6 block ring made out of netherbricks around it (covered in carpets or something) on a crossroads in a netherfortress
hahah I just remembered in your 3 level wither skeleton farm you have the skirts as well. Are they necessary, if the hightmap goes up anyway?
check out my wither skelly farm video where i go into it in detail. they can only initiate a pack spawn on certain block types. that's why there's a skirt around each layer for wiske farms
This was pretty good, but I would just like to know if me building a giant ice roof on y=128 on top of a witch farm will encourage pack spawning? I see most witch farm builds their roof directly on top I wanted smtg different.
How does pack spawning work on mobs with specific spawn areas? Does the game still try to spawn outside it's area? Does the witch farm need a giant roof to get better spawn rates?
No a roof that high up will cut your rates down significantly to 1 in 194 chance of spawn
@@Stromne I see, so for most types of overworld mob spawns, it would be better to have 0 roof, which can be done with slime chunk farms. But since others need a lower light level, we have to build a roof. And since we're building a roof, building a larger roof horizontally will help encourage pack spawn, but only directly on top of the farm.
Am I right? 🤔
I was wondering if you have a skirt around your farm wouldn’t the pack spawns also wander from inside the farm to the outside of the farm and fail just as many times as they fail outside the farm and wander in. I also don’t understand why some people put a 1 block gap of string or air in between the farm and the skirt. Idk I’m not doubting the effectiveness of the spawning skirt because I’ve seen it increase rates on some of my farms but I can’t seem to comprehend why.
That already happens without a spawning skirt. The spawn platform that the spawn attempt starts in sets the y level and a spawn can occur on a corner and wander out into the air, still failing with or without the skirt. So it only affects the starting spawn of the pack spawn
@@Stromne that’s the piece of info I’m missing. Thx for the response
How does it work for Skyblock? Does the height of the spawning platform matter? Since there is literally nothing above or below it
Wow tysm, i was wondering whats the deal with those spawning skirt
Amazing vid also does lava/water also affect heightmap?
Yes, any non-air block
Superb 👌
aer you sure that bedrock also counts? i remember it not counting in the past. thanks for the great vid :d
The wiki says that the game will only attempt 3 times to spawn before quitting, was this changed more recently than this video was released?
1 original mob spawn + 3 pack spawns = 4 spawns
For pack spawning, if it tries to spawn on Y=16, can the "wandering" portion of it cause the spawn attempt to move vertically? Or can it only move horizontally? Additionally, do I understand correctly that the skirt needs to be at the top level of the farm because it raises the height map for the entire farm, allowing the "wandering" mechanic to happen at any Y level underneath it? So if you have 10 platforms underneath the skirt, those 10 platforms all have the possibility of the spawn attempt "wandering" into them. The "wandering" process works in the air?
Pack spawning is horizontal only. The skirt is only required in the top layer to raise hieght map unless the mob for are spawning requires certain conditions, like either skeletons. Most mobs can start spawn attempts in air though
I don't understand something: where does the height map start "counting"? Well, normally, from bedrock, but what happens if someone were to remove the bedrock in some ways and make a platform over the void at a higher level? Would the height map still start from Y-64 or will it start from the first non-air block (and thus having the same spawn rates of a platform at the lowest level)?
The height map will always start at -64 (in 1.18, y0 in 1.17) even if all the bedrock is removed. The starting point is hard coded.
Question, it afects chunks or only the area of the farm
what version does this video go over, and what about the end?
So assuming i built a slimefarm in 1.16, without removing bedrock, my lowest spawning layer is y=5, which gives me a 1/5 chance of a successful spawn. Adding a second layer at y=8 gives a 2/8 = 1/4 chance of successful spawning?
If this is all there is to it, I don‘t quite understand why it is recommended (it says so on the wiki, and people like il mango have also said so) to only have spawning layers up to y=31 (instead of y=39). It seems to me the more layers you would have, the closer we would get to a 1/3 success rate (since you can have a spawing layer every third block)
Yes and no. You logic with the additional height and change in spawning chance is correct for newer versions of MC. However, the height map used to use the subchunks for the height map in older versions. So the highest subchunk that had a non-air block was the top of the height map. Adding the extra 3 layers in Mangos video slowed his rates because the extra layers added another subchunk to the height map, but didn't fill the subchunk completely with spawning layers. That subchunk height map applied up to 1.12, it was changed in 1.13. So Mango's video for 1.12 is completely correct, but that wouldn't apply to 1.13+
@@Stromne wow okay, thanks a lot for the explanation! I guess someone should also update the (german) wiki ;P
11:31
So if I put more pack spawning layers under the top layer next to ordinary spawning layers, it wouldn't increase anything?
In most cases, correct. Unless the mob has a block type it has to spawn on, like wither skellys or cows
@@Stromne ah okay, thank you. Yeah, already noticed that u had 3 layers in ur wither skeleton farms and thats why. Good to know.
Strim Strom Strubby Wubby
Very nice explanation. I have one question: Does this mean, that If i have a farm at the lowest Y level, with one spawing platform, does this mean if I add one, it will decrease my rates?
yes thats why we use sliced portals in many perimeter farms so that it doesnt have any obsidian above for example if you build a slime farm at y level 5 or less without any blocks above it will produce more slimeballs than adding spawning platforms all the way up to y 39 see 3 levels of slime farms video in this channel for further info
Thanks for a great video, you really explained this well and it will impact how I build spawning platforms from now on.
I have a question, even though this will probably be lost in space for being so late.
What if you instead of focusing on lighting up all caves near a farm tried to raise the height map for every block outside of your farm? Making spawn attempts outside of your farm more likely to fail so that your farm alone fills the mob cap.
For example, you make a near-bedrock slime farm. Instead of excavating the whole nearby area or light up all the caves you can find, what if you went up to the build limit and put down a transparent block everywhere outside of your slime chunk? This could probably also be interesting in the neather, effectively halving the chances for spawns outside your farm (wither skeleton farm for example)
If anyone ever reads this and want to brainstorm with me - Thank you