Snell served a good purpose when they started, and still do with their automotive standards and possible some of their other standards. The fact is the ECE standard has just caught up and surpassed them in being relevant. Snell really should simply abandon the motorcycle helmet market, but that might cut a big chunk of revenue from their pockets.
That's what happens when you got hard headed people running an organization/company. They don't typically adjust to the times and trends and often than not, get left behind. In short complacency. (See Kodak, Nokia and other companies that were not relevant today)
Would make sense for them to keep their standards as they are and state that it's intended for race car driving, not motorcycling. That would be of benefit to both motorcyclists and race car drivers. Problem with that, the reason they don't take that approach, is that far fewer helmets are sold for race car driving than for motorcycling. They'd rather have a meaningless standard on a lot of helmets than a relevant one on a few. Profit above mission, apparently.
this reminded me of a quote from Tim minchin's poem, Storm: "Science adjusts its views based on whats observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved"
Evolve or die. SNELL was the go to standard when I bought my first helmet in 1974. I would expect data based science to push new standards. Looks like ECE is the alternative safety standard when helmet shopping.
Your mention of the journalist that got fired prompted me into reading the whole story. Corporate values, economic interests, honest journalism, advertising dollars and personal vendettas aside, a really sad story for all of those involved.
I’m glad I watched this video and you are exactly correct Ryan! I just finished the riding academy at our local Harley Davidson and in the class they gave us a little Snell flyer that basically showed a graphic putting Snell’s standard way up and above what the ECE standard is. So Snell is still trying to trash on the European standards to keep those helmets out of our market here in the US and they’re doing it by targeting the least informed crowd of riders out there. Newbies like myself! I will be looking for an ece helmet for sure. Thanks for the great content!
But it was a class full of Harley riders so 95% I'm guessing we open face helmets anyways which are knowhere near as safe as almost every full face no matter what sticker is on it.
American Capitalism at its finest, who cares if your brain gets turned into road grease, as long as we make our money! Absolutely revolting, non-profit my a*s
My last Snell helmet (Snell M2010) took two huge hits, with my head in it. The helmet looks great. You can see a little cracking on the right side of the chin bar but other than the face shield being scratched you'd never know it was in an accident. Never mind the two days I spent in the hospital for a concussion. I dont want my helmets to survive and accident. I want my brain to be protected. I now only race with ECE lids. bonus is the are lighter as well.
Have you looked into 6d helmets? They were the first ones to tell me what a crock of shit Snell was years ago but their acessebility to a market suffered because they're a US brand and far too many people wouldn't look their way because of how they rejected snell (due to how it causes concussions) and stuck with ECE. They have a major focus on preventing concussions and after that crash you probably can't be affording any more dude
@@tobiaspieringer1653 I have a car with no seatbelts, My grandmother crashed an identical one years ago and was simply thrown through the windscreen to safety. It has a split windscreen so you only have to replace half of it too
O fuckin 💘.love this man. He is a fuckin jenious. And explains. Very specifically. Why. HE VERY FUCKIN KOOL. LOVE LOVE LOVE HIM NIGHTFENCER GATEKEEPER. FREDDY FROM.NOBLE FENCE. BRAINTREE MASSACHUSETTS. I HAVE SEBERAL SICK MACHINES ONE ID THE 199I KAWASAKI ZRC 1100 EITH NITROUS OXIDE AND MANY ENGINE UPGRADES. VALVES. PORTED POLISHED. BALANC3D AND BLUEPRINTED MOTOR CRANK. LOTS OF TITANIUM. L8fters roller rocker cams. Rc engineering. Keblar CLUTCH ETC. .HOLY FUCK .
If they spent half as much time worrying about safety instead of sales as they spent on watching and downvoting the video, the sticker might mean something.
Good to see someone in the motorcycle journalism community talking about this. I never see much about it from other sources. And this is one of several videos Ryan has done to shed light on little known safety issues within motorcycling.
And he states all his sources, like I'd pay RF9 money to keep making videos if he ever gets dropped from fortnine (would be crazy because for me he's the guy I follow and not the website but idk how it's run) or wants to take a different direction
I love the 50"s film noire feel to this video. Nicely done Ryan! Hard to accept that Snell and DOT can't change and adapt to better and more realistic standards that save their customers. I guess they really don't care about improving, but are hard headed and care more about making money.
@@darthnatas953 Lol & there's the exact brand of American hard headedness & refusal to change I was talking about. We haven't dominated shit in the world in decades
@@SeraphimCramer The US economy is the largest in the world. Our military is the largest in the world. We have the most personal freedom in the world (in most states). US citizens have the largest per capita assets in the world. Our government spends the most money on the stupidest, most wasteful shit in the world. All this with very detrimental demographics compared with countries like Denmark, Sweden, etc. And in spite of half of US citizens either not working at all, or working for the government (which is actually worse for production, because government workers not only have to be provided for by people who actually produce worthwhile products and services, but many also actively stand in the way of production.) The half of us that are working are so friggin productive that we can protect every country’s borders in the world except our own, with a military 10 times bigger than it needs to be, carry 25% of the people on our backs, all while swimming upstream against the other 25%. We drove Russia in to bankruptcy, managed to babysit Europe for the last 75 years, fought several useless wars with no point, and still are able to hand out free stuff to nearly every country in the world. All while doing equally worthless stuff like flying to the moon. China is next to get their butt kicked if we can get our fellow citizens to focus on what the actual problem is, instead of dreaming up fake problems to spend fake money on like the Earth possibly getting warmer or colder, or that medical care, education, or some other service that someone has to pay for is somehow a “right.”
It missed a few things, like the DOT duration of g force and a puncture test, neither of which are considered in the ECE standard. Still the ECE is better, not just because it is newer, it has been around since at least 2005 from what I've understood.
Every single video on this channel is absolutely fantastic, especially in the last 4-3 years, doesn't matter what topic it is, whether safety, reviews, tips,.. just keep on making them, best part of yt imo.
As always, very informative and entertaining content. Years ago I was involved in a low speed impact which caused a brain bleed. Head scan wasn't done since I had a 2010 SNELL rated helmet from a leading (high-end) brand. Since my recovery, I now recommend ECE over all others, because it is tested BEFORE getting a certification (sticker), and the fact that the testing if focused on low speed impacts as well as high. For the track, I now choose the FIM certified helmets. A few of us have been asked to tour the SNELL testing facility in the coming months; I suspect a lively discussion when the visit occurs. Your work is appreciated.
Seriously, if I hadn't stumbled across his channel I would still be riding with a cheap dot helmet. It was still within the return window so I sent it back and ordered a proper ece certified helmet
The execs at Snell are NOT going to be having a good Monday once this video makes its way across their desk….probably any minute now. I am imagining several emergency PR meetings and a “task force” being created, lol.
@@helpfulcommenter that's what they would like to make you think about them. Getting a non profit tag is a good way to keep your income from taxing. They charge for their certification so they make money and they are fighting to keep their rating standard as the main one not ECE/FIM even if it saves lives. SO tax evasion, care less about saving lives and more about licensing fees, making a half ass standard so their certified makers can sell in another safer standards territory! Non profit my ass!
Because he doesn't stuff it with filler to make it past the 10 minute youtube preference algorithm. Though in this case he definintlry should - this is a PSA.
It is not so much the brevity, but the frequency of same. hate waiting a whole month between installments. The delivery has always been quite enjoyable and the touch of incredulity adds a strong factor of believable confidence. The entries from this year though by Ryan and even stronger and more powerful in presentation of vital topics. Very top sort and the industry should be paying close attention to this critical research. Well done Ryan . You are making our lives safer bit by bit. Probably not in the cards, but I for one would like bi-weekly or perhaps something every three weeks.
When choosing my helmet I went ECE all the way, no interest in Snell and know DOT means literally nothing. The sense I'd gotten was that Snell made more sense on the track, while ECE was more holistically focused for a street rider. This seems even a step further, that Snell wasn't even intended for motorcycles at all, but is designed around race cars. So why not just admit that, say ECE is what you want on a bike and Snell is what you want in a car? I guess they don't want to say that, as far more helmets are sold for motorcycling than for race car driving. This "double standard" without clarification of which it is makes it worse yet, as now even race car drivers who want the Snell standard - for what it was intended to be - won't know which are designed for that purpose. Sounds like a case of them sacrificing their entire purpose for existence in order to remain in existence. And, worse yet, they'll probably succeed, as only a few people will know this. Until F9 made this video, which is probably the worst thing to happen to them - Ryan better watch his back.
Really makes you wonder why Snell didn't just say "our safety standards are built around race cars, but we recognize that motorcyclists have different needs, so we've designed a second standard meant to apply to them" instead of trashing their entire brand by insisting their lids were the best for every application, while quietly undercutting their credibility by halfway trying to copycat ECE. Now no one can buy a Snell helmet for any purpose & be fully confident it'll save their life.
@@SeraphimCramer My guess is they don't want to do that because the market for racing car helmets is much smaller than motorcycle helmets. I've been dabbling in Rallycross, which requires Snell-rated helmets, they're already far more expensive and harder to find than ECE rated motorcycle helmets. Without also selling them to motorcyclists, the car-racing helmet market would be too small for Snell to survive, or at least would dramatically reduce their funding. If they did the separate motorcycle helmet qualification, it would be entirely redundant to ECE, and people would realize this fairly quickly, so nobody would seek out Snell-rated helmets if ECE is just as good. Thus they'd only be relevant for the tiny car-racing helmet niche. Probably a situation of money talking louder than purpose (and just that they're a nonprofit doesn't mean money isn't their #1 consideration). Looking at the Snell website, it looks like they do have separate "M" series for motorcycle and "SA" for automotive, as well as others for bicycling, equestrian, and other stuff.
In addition to being glad to see you drawing attention to this issue, I’m thoroughly impressed that a company that sells SNELL tagged helmets has the righteous fortitude to fund this video. Many thumbs up. Edit: p.s. It’s well past time for every helmet retailer to make it easy to search helmets by certification and for the certifications and their meaning to be readily visible in every product listing. This is probably the most important thing to know about a helmet but it is usually the least obvious part of the product listing.
Almost every major international brand has them both, and almost all of them get a 4 or 5star SHARP aftermarket lab rating. You are unlikely to get a helmet that fails SHARP, even cheap China crap like HJC , Fuel or Scorpion.... Ride smart, don't duche ride and you most likely will never find out which is better.
@@STho205 You dont have to be a "duche rider" to get that kind of experience. Unfortunately someone i knew personally experienced it and that didnt end well...
@@arsyadgafli8749 there is almost always a personal need to reinforce ones value by the product choices made in a branded consumer all basically the same market. You can't be a man cause you don't smoke the brand I do used to be the old joke fifty years ago. I have an HJC and it wore well. It was OK. It was a plastic outer shell, some igloo cooler extruded styrofoam, some laminate gray foam rubber with glue molded fabric. All the China buckets are that. They work for the purpose, but nothing to really cheer about. When it got over six years, i took it apart to see hie it was built. The unsupported shell would squish in half under pressure. I hit it with a sander snf it holed in under a second. The styrofoam was.. styrofoam... But the padding waa taped onto it with gaffers tape. No sewing. The tape was dry and powdery. It held together for six years, but probably any China "counterfeit" bucket would also. Since all China factories are controlled ultimately by ONE PARTY CORPORATION... is there really a difference. Last years revolutionary HJC is likely this years Alibaba/Amazon $80 special. I'm sure you're fine. I'm sure you're safe. They would hold together enough for a typical accident... However the five year rule is being pushed because cheap construction doesn't last long. Like Chinese Clark Shoes that are just trading on an old Western brand name.
It's the internet, and it's youtube. It would be more surprising if there _weren't_ any dislikes. It would also be more surprising if there wasn't a comment amounting to 'how could there be dislikes'. As far as youtube videos go, this is a VERY low dislike ratio. Which is not surprising, because it's an F9 video.
@@IstasPumaNevada yeah, even on rare live concert footage of an old musician with a view count just over 100, there will still be dislikes.. it's just how youtube works for some reason
Ryan, I’d love to see one of your good old fashioned reviews on the Pan America. I’ve heard some good things about the bike, but I’m interested to see what you think of it.
I've heard lots of great from magazines, but not much from actual owners yet. Still being a new engine design I'd wait a couple years before buying one. But I do love the comfort and practicality of ADV bikes.
@@randombuilds8336 The only "Owner" review I saw was some Harley bro who talked up how much dirt biking he used to do then proceeded to drive the Pan America like a geriatric down a relatively smooth road. I wont be taking his opinion on the bike, that's for sure.
@@WPGKLR Seems that bro has a realistic idea of 150hp elephant bike off-road capabilities. You want extreme? Harley did it in the commercial. Every fall on the Pan-am will cost like a slightly used Honda motocross bike.
I started riding in 2008 and the wisdom then was “Snell, Snell, Snell, Snell!” Little did I know it would get so much more complicated only the next year.
When I bought a new helmet in ~2008 I went for the British Standard. Now I go for with ECE. Snell has not been relevant for years. Motorcyclist published an article ripping Snell in 2005 (same journalist who was fired from Motorcyclist for writing about Snell in the NYT).
I started riding in 1972. Pretty much get a Bell helmet with a Snell sticker or risk your head to an unknown. Almost 50 years later, I would expect changes. For road bikes, I want a shell that smashes and absorbs energy when my head hits the flat area called pavement. Off-road, keeping pointy rocks out of my skull and impact absorption are 2 considerations.
@@nathanbossier2446 Most likely a bloke who suffered a crash wearing a Snell certified helmet. This raises the moral and philosophical question: "is someone who's brain-dead, but dislikes videos online, considered alive or deceased?"
That's me. F9 is only telling half of the story and this was very dishonest of him to do so. See, contrary to what he imply there are serious people working for motorbikers safety and doing their job with great care at Snell. And as you guessed, I am one of these people. I work as a HOST (Helmet Operator Special Tester) for Snell and we try our helmets in EVERY condition. The standard of quality is only making sure we reach the specific hardness or softness desired for either market. Nonetheless, I test those helmets myself in real conditions and I have crashed head first over a thousand times in testing already and see how I am not mentally impaired at all ? Snell quality for sure.
This video is very informative. I have been a Snell advocate for a long time without realizing the deficicts of the certification. Yet when I had my worst accident -- a 105 MPH getoff that put me tumbling through the Nevada desert, my Snell-certified Scorpion EXO700 helmet, was goughed, scaped, and scuffed on every square inch with a ripped-off shield, to boot. I ended up with a minor concussion, which I atttributed to being lucky enough not to strike anything solid while skimming the desert in low earth orbit. But after watching this report on the Snell certification, the helmet might have also contributed to my injuries by being just too damn hard.
A big thank you to Ryan and the whole F9 crew, another great video, fll of information that I would have to dig through loads of paperwork to acquire. Also hats off to the lovely Film Noir styling. I really enjoyed this so thank you once again.
@@andy_byrd FIM is for professional racers and offers the best protection at speed. However Its expensive. ECE is in General fine for most road users, and is cheaper to buy. But as far as min standards go; ECE is far more practical and superior than the Snell Standard,
Thank you for pointing out the real crucial value of this video - the journalism, sure the editing is top-notch but what Fort-9 has done is really draw attention to the politics of motorcycle helmets. Sure hope we don't miss this, as we congratulate the videography. Again the adage proves true - do anything well enough and you end up in philosophy[at least in ontology]
That was one of the best TH-cam clips! I am pretty disgusted by the Industry and Snell, I paid a bucket of cash for the best (safest helmet) I could get, thinking Snell would guarantee a top safe quality product....nope guess not. That pisses me off that a company is playing with our riders lives.
@@RiloEltonThat contraption is called a "saree guard", it's designed to keep pillion riders "saree" or any other bulky clothing from getting caught in the sprockets or wheels and lead onto any accidents. Even though that thing is mandatory for the road bikes here, most will get rid of it after the registration process is over.
I got my helmet after watching the DOT video, went ECE as the sense I had at the time was Snell was for racing while ECE was more suitable for street riding. Now I hope he doesn't come out with one saying ECE is crap too... Even if he does, I'm guessing it's best of the three, and we all know crashing a motorcycle with any helmet isn't going to be fun.
@@quillmaurer6563 Well, ECE 22/06 (and some with 05 stickers) are basically the balance between budget and variety, versus top protection but limited options that FIM offers. However, in another 5 or so years (5 is probably optimistic, I admit) we might start seeing more budget friendly FIM helmets as manufacturers get a better handle on it and start larger production runs. Of course, then we'll have to contend with the grades of FIM, as there are multiple grades of the FIM standard. ECE will become the bare minimum for informed, sane riders, and the lowest rank of FIM will be be what most riders will actually look to get. Snell will probably start being phased out from motorcycles by then, I hope. They never really should have been used as a standard for motorcycle helmets, as the video illustrates. DOT? That'll probably exist for quite some time as the legal bare minimum. The helmet equivalent of slapping on a barely functional part to a device to ensure the whole technically qualifies as legal to use.
@@ThatSoddingGamer I found myself thinking "What a valuable footnote for the video this is" while reading this comment. Good stuff, bro. Thanks for the intel ;)
Honestly Ryan is the best in the business and no one comes close! So much effort, attention to detail, research and execution in all his videos. Big up to you mate👏👏👏
I'm only 34 seconds into this video and I'm ready to heap high praise. This is a vlog on the motor cycle industry, but already I see a production that is on par with with the best the move industry can must. .... Okay, back to the vlog .... This production deserves multiple academy awards: Story, information, ACTING, B&W, lighting. It is all so good. .... To sum it up - really good production. Really.
"If the name can mean two different things, does it mean anything?" This honestly sent chills down my spine. Snell is completely neglecting the very purpose of a helmet to keep their name on the European market.
In asia, Shoei helmets are the thing to get. Imagine thinking that hard helmets are safer on the day and age of crumple zones and shock absorption devices like airbags.
In the limited space between the outside of the helmet and your head, where do you think the hard surface should be? I still want the exterior to be as hard and as impenetrable as possible , while having the most cushioning possible inside. Is there a part of your head that you would consider to be a safe "crumple zone"? The best improvement I feel has been made through the years and can further be made is in the overall weight of the helmet. Keep the hard shell exterior and soft interior, while reducing inertial load/strain on the neck as much as possible. Other areas I feel should be improved if possible are: outward visibility, hearing ability and ventilation comfort.
The only downside is that you can mess up your helmet when it just slips out of your hand from a 2 feet height and you wouldn't even know by looking at it :(
@@reason2gether The harder the shell, the more likely it is to shatter on impact. A hard shell transmits more energy to the inside. A softer shell absorbes energy by deforming. Like a crumple zone.
This channel is one of the best in automotive space! Delivering useful information in the most creative and artistic way imaginable. I can only hope to get to close to this level some day!
Everybody can ignore Snell. It is not a street legal standard anywhere but racetracks that impose it privately. This video is important to the helmet marketing industry, like Ryan, Revzilla, etc... But not on the street.
@@STho205 it's still better than DOT so could be the better option for US folks that can't source an ECE bucket easily enough, altough there's little reason for that to be true with shops like fortnine and revzilla around
@@lemonbrothers3462 you know, a Ryan F9 video five years ago called "5 Safest Helmets" half of them had neither a Snell or ECE sticker.. And he said it didn't matter as they were safe. He was falling back on SHARP. His highest recommended one was the high viz Scorpion 490 which at that time had no ECE but a Snell 2015 (which is years after this video's stated controversy) and the HJC which only had a DOT sticker because it couldn't pass Snell and had never paid to get ECE. Both were China Buckets with flexible cheaper polycarb shells. 4 years ago he did the video Best Snell helmets where he sang the praises of Snell. Followed up a few weeks later with the horrible dangers of DOT. When it finally comes down to it, these guys are entertainers and product salesmen. Ryan produces a nice polished video. He filled a week. Ride safe... Your helmet is as good as you need...and I hope you never need it.
@@STho205 That's not what I saw in those older videos. He correctly pointed out same thing in different way - how Snell was about a firm shell, and competing standard is about a flexible one, i.e. the harder vs. softer adjectives used in this current video. As I recall, he said neither is perfect (nothing is), but Snell's hard shells are a liability if not padded and fit correctly, and the softer standards are great for absorbing but not for point impact, etc. Too much absorb without a shape doesn't match our hard heads. Anyway, this science is changing with more testing - notice the football helmet changes in just the last few years.
I'd agree, but Snell used to be the authority. Always question everything. They are only the authority because the data points to their standard being better right now, but lobotomies used to be a standard because they were better than what came before. Question everything.
Until someone comes along with a better standard and FIM stubbornly sticks to their own formula. Seems like a common occurrence over the history of safety standards lol
@@mmaaddict78 legit, yeah. Standards don't change until someone calls out a different standard is bullshit. It becomes a money-making game eventually. Always starts out great.
@@johnb8440 except that the FIM standard isn’t there because they want to get their stickers onto helmets. Only a few helmets in the world actually are FIM certified. The FIM rating is there because the FIM wants and NEEDS to protect their most important assets… MotoGP riders. The FIM is the motorcycle equivalent of the FIA. They’re the organisers of premier-class motorsport. They don’t make their money from certifying equipment, they get their money from organising championships. Without the riders/drivers those championships are doomed, so they have to protect their riders to the best of their ability in order for them to protect their revenue.
@@johnb8440 except it wasn't really the authority, it seemed so because it was a requirement to enter a track but for long ECE has been considered better by a lot of people (until FIM showed up). Previous F9 videos showed just that, with SNELL being recomended if you wanted to go to a track, otherwise ECE.
Once had a discussion about this with a motorcycle supplier who believed I was in big danger because I'm riding with a ECE helmet and not a snell helmet. Thanks for the great video.
I had no idea snell isn't in the other side. A lot of tracks in my area (Canada) mandate SNELL rated helmets. DOT alone is not enough, ECE is yes or no depending on track.
@@madbull4666 Never seen it in any west europe store but to be honest I only check the CE sticker or maybe I only take brands that don't care about it, don't know.
I watched quite a few Videos (20+ I'd say) of this Channel over the past few Days. Don't know why I just found it like a week ago.. But I am really astounded how well these Videos are made. The Scripts, the Stories, the Texts. On Point and straight forward. Really refreshing without any "Bullsh*t". Plus, I love when Ryan makes use of that Blackboard and hits us with his Knowledge in Physics. Big Fan of this Channel. Keep up the amazing work! (Greetings from Germany)
I have been watching for a while on your channel, you make some of the best presented and most thoroughly researched content for motorcycling out there. Really, really appreciate your channel and thanks to the whole crew.
Ryan working so hard to investigate which standard for helmet is safer. Meanwhile in India - Helmet must comply with Indian ISI standard which is basically low end version of ECE , Otherwise no matter how safe your helmet is, it's illegal.
That’s how it is almost everywhere, you must psd the local standard. In America all helmets must pass DOT. Thankfully almost all helmets that pass ECE also pass DOT.
Its funny that we indian start using helmet only recently...few years before people used to say to people who use to wear helmets *that are you going to space..if not then why are you wearing that urn on your head* ..🙄 PS: ECE helmetes are more relevant in today's India because now the bike are getting faster so the chance of you rolling on the road and hitting your head on the multiple side has increased But before the story was different
Brilliant content as usual. Having looked at the FIM requirements and reasoning behind them, I strongly believe that the European ECE standards offer better protection for road and race riders.
One of the best motorcycle channels on YT - unbiased and masterclass video content. Not to mention, how many lives you are saving from educating us folks. Thanks Ryan and F9 Team.
I have been bingeing FortNine tonight. I've been wearing DOT approved polycarbonate helmets since Motorcyclist Magazine published an article about the same topic in the 90s or 2000s citing the Hurt Report. I'm glad to see the NYT and FortNine picking up the story for us. Keep kicking a** in your moto journalism and I will keep watching. Can't believe the Snell Foundation still sticks to its no fact based approach. I always used to share that Motorcyclist Magazine article with fellow rider friends. In this day and age, this will become my standard share along with your airbag gear reviews. No more expensive gear for me with CE rated armour either!!!
If you buy a Snell helmet you don't know on first glance if you get the hard Snell D, or just a worse ECE. Whether Snell D or ECE is right, Snell R is certainly wrong.
More or less. I mean Snell is great if you hit a curb or hit a bollard with your head; but the reality is you gonna be bouncing on the road. In such a case snell standards lack the durability. Great for massive single impact damage, but anyone whose had a tumble knows thats rarely the case. ECE standards are just better for realistic crashes.
I'm simply impressed by how creative and enjoyable all of his videos are. It looks like he's having so much filming these. Love from France man, keep up the quality content !
With the level the FIM is considering for velocity of impact be glad you don't have one. They are looking at rate of acceleration that is so high it is not a survivable situation and, in turn, will make the helmet transmit more shock because the helmet/liner need to be made harder/stiffer to meet that unsurvivable standard. Dual sport helmets are dealing with rates of acceleration at 1/2-1/3 that of the FIM and done right will have a more flexible giving shell and liner to suit, transmitting less shock to the brain. Go to 10:50 in this video to understand what they are doing th-cam.com/video/QmMa32byIJA/w-d-xo.html And yes I realize the video is about 50% promotion of 6D, but the other 50% is dealing with the standards. Even includes what is good in the DOT standard and missing in others. See 2:55 in the video, understand what is missing from ECE and should be added.
I love your videos F9 you doing some of the highest quality videos on TH-cam! Thank you as a rider for bringing up motorcyclist safety issues that need to be addressed for all of us to be safer!
BRAVO BRAVO 👏 🙌 👍🏻 👌 Even before I start to think about how high standard was the script and research.. The production value was OUTSTANDING!!! JUST OUTSTANDINGLY GOOD!!! I PRAY YOU KEEP BRINGING SUCH JOURNALISTIC GEMS FOR MANY YEARS TO COME!!!
That is a good point and was not brought up here - sharp.dft.gov.uk/sharp-testing/. Some of the impact speeds are lower than ECE/FIP 6.0m/s - 8.5m/. That said always cross compare with other testing. Arai has not always gotten top marks on some of their helmets at Sharp. This lead to the lowering of the visor hinge on newer models to improve side impact testing (at least that is my understanding).
Sharp was the reason I bought my HJC IS-17 as my first helmet. Don't always have to pay the big bucks to get the good stuff. shame that model is now discontinued.
The FIM gelmets available to the public are: AGV Pista R; AGV Pista RR; Bell Pro Star Carbon FIM; Arai RX-7V Racing; Shark Race-R Pro GP FIM; LS2 FF323 Arrow C Racing FIM 2020 Carbon; LS2 805 Thunder Racing FIM 2020 Carbon.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
This is why you don't get invited to press events
keep it up
That sounds like a threat, you work for Snell?
@@thepioneer6178 he said keep it up, so definetely not a treath ;)
That's when you know he's doing something right!
That's why they don't give Ryan lots of bikes to review as well. He doesn't BS the viewers with fake or paid reviews.
@@motorcityoctane6713 The hero we all needed.
Read an article several years ago where an unnamed helmet seller said, "'First we make it Snell, then we make it safe."
Yeah that’s found nowhere on the internet. Need more detail.
@@highball7347 not everything is on the internet. It's a random quote from an unnamed article.
I’ll say it first: Ryan F9 didn’t kill himself!
Don't think he's getting a Snell Xmas gift this year, lol
@@billmcmeekin7909 judging by the info he just provided, who would want one anyhow 😂
We're going to find him with two self-inflicted blunt force impacts to the same spot on the back of his head
@@creamydonk 😂
@@creamydonk They will not throw him off the moving vehicle after done tho because they be damned to partake in variable force impacts.
''If the name can mean 2 different things, does it mean anything?'' Thats a quote to remember
And the answer is always: "Yes. It means whatever is the worst version for you, will be the one you get. Always."
like the Ford Mustang, for example? Jesus, Ford fucked that up.
Yeah! Fuck the word "wound"!
Lee: "Stop getting me wound up Brenda!"
Brenda: "Wound up? I haven't stabbed you yet! How did you know I had a knife?"
Funny thing, reminds me of the word woman now....
What is a woman?
Sounds like Snell is in the business of staying in business.
Ah, yeah, like every other business, organization and government.
Snell served a good purpose when they started, and still do with their automotive standards and possible some of their other standards. The fact is the ECE standard has just caught up and surpassed them in being relevant. Snell really should simply abandon the motorcycle helmet market, but that might cut a big chunk of revenue from their pockets.
That's what happens when you got hard headed people running an organization/company. They don't typically adjust to the times and trends and often than not, get left behind. In short complacency. (See Kodak, Nokia and other companies that were not relevant today)
@@kurtjustiniani1354 “Hard headed”. I see what you did there :-).
Would make sense for them to keep their standards as they are and state that it's intended for race car driving, not motorcycling. That would be of benefit to both motorcyclists and race car drivers. Problem with that, the reason they don't take that approach, is that far fewer helmets are sold for race car driving than for motorcycling. They'd rather have a meaningless standard on a lot of helmets than a relevant one on a few. Profit above mission, apparently.
It sounds like riders would be better off going for an ECE compliant helmet and ignoring Snell. 🤔
It always has been
They would be right to do so.
Not really. Most tracks in the US require helmets to have SNELL certification to be allowed to ride there. That makes this a very sticky situation.
ECE is actually safer than snell, has been for a while. DOT is kinda bare minimum.
I skip ece and go for fim. If it's good enough for MotoGP good for me
This isn’t even a TH-cam video anymore. It’s an art. It’s a masterpiece.
More like what should be accredited course study on the topic, but I'm feeling your vibe.
🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
But what did you learn?
Yes. It is a super production.
was going to add a like, but let's just leave it at 420
FIM and ECE are taking in new data and adapting to the new conclusions on what is actually safe. Snell is sitting in its corner throwing a tantrum.
A very M'urican way to do it.
Bingo
this reminded me of a quote from Tim minchin's poem, Storm: "Science adjusts its views based on whats observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved"
@@helpfulcommenter In that case, go look at the animated video of the poem on TH-cam. It's full of lines like that one.
Evolve or die.
SNELL was the go to standard when I bought my first helmet in 1974. I would expect data based science to push new standards.
Looks like ECE is the alternative safety standard when helmet shopping.
Your mention of the journalist that got fired prompted me into reading the whole story. Corporate values, economic interests, honest journalism, advertising dollars and personal vendettas aside, a really sad story for all of those involved.
"Sad" is the perfect way to describe it. No winners in the long run. ~RF9
I’m glad I watched this video and you are exactly correct Ryan! I just finished the riding academy at our local Harley Davidson and in the class they gave us a little Snell flyer that basically showed a graphic putting Snell’s standard way up and above what the ECE standard is. So Snell is still trying to trash on the European standards to keep those helmets out of our market here in the US and they’re doing it by targeting the least informed crowd of riders out there. Newbies like myself! I will be looking for an ece helmet for sure. Thanks for the great content!
But it was a class full of Harley riders so 95% I'm guessing we open face helmets anyways which are knowhere near as safe as almost every full face no matter what sticker is on it.
American Capitalism at its finest, who cares if your brain gets turned into road grease, as long as we make our money! Absolutely revolting, non-profit my a*s
@@anthonysimoes7307 helmets?
i just love that he puts his sources everytime
As should be done, hate people that claim shit and can't back it up
Aka science
So does his science teacher.
Another brilliant episode telling like it is!
Crazy to see real investigative journalism
My last Snell helmet (Snell M2010) took two huge hits, with my head in it. The helmet looks great. You can see a little cracking on the right side of the chin bar but other than the face shield being scratched you'd never know it was in an accident. Never mind the two days I spent in the hospital for a concussion. I dont want my helmets to survive and accident. I want my brain to be protected. I now only race with ECE lids. bonus is the are lighter as well.
Wow man, that's some hard fact you just shared here. I'm happy that you keep racing champ!
Its the same ith crashing old cars with no crumplezones. The car looks fine, but everything inside it is mush.
This info is giving me anxiety about my own Snell helmet
Have you looked into 6d helmets? They were the first ones to tell me what a crock of shit Snell was years ago but their acessebility to a market suffered because they're a US brand and far too many people wouldn't look their way because of how they rejected snell (due to how it causes concussions) and stuck with ECE. They have a major focus on preventing concussions and after that crash you probably can't be affording any more dude
@@tobiaspieringer1653 I have a car with no seatbelts, My grandmother crashed an identical one years ago and was simply thrown through the windscreen to safety. It has a split windscreen so you only have to replace half of it too
The Moviemaker is back to save our Brains.
O fuckin 💘.love this man. He is a fuckin jenious. And explains. Very specifically. Why. HE VERY FUCKIN KOOL. LOVE LOVE LOVE HIM NIGHTFENCER GATEKEEPER. FREDDY FROM.NOBLE FENCE. BRAINTREE MASSACHUSETTS. I HAVE SEBERAL SICK MACHINES ONE ID THE 199I KAWASAKI ZRC 1100 EITH NITROUS OXIDE AND MANY ENGINE UPGRADES. VALVES. PORTED POLISHED. BALANC3D AND BLUEPRINTED MOTOR CRANK. LOTS OF TITANIUM. L8fters roller rocker cams. Rc engineering. Keblar CLUTCH ETC. .HOLY FUCK .
Literally
Ralphthemoviemaker
@@frednoble1833 seems like a nice setup, cheers
This video was one of the biggest reasons i went for an ECE certified helmet for my first helmet when i started riding. Thanks Ryan
Fortnine : when endcredits are interesting to watch too.
Oh? Fortnine posted another video? It's the equivalence of a mini Christmas every time, quality content
True af
ESPECIALLY when you catch it on your lunch break 🤤😉
Yule. "Christmas" only emulates the European tradition, and nobody follows their additions.
True
Prancing moose? I spy a fellow Volvo driver 😂
For a current staffing level at Snell's offices, please refer to the dislike counter on this video.
If they spent half as much time worrying about safety instead of sales as they spent on watching and downvoting the video, the sticker might mean something.
and those who paid the full price tag for a bucket.
Good to see someone in the motorcycle journalism community talking about this. I never see much about it from other sources. And this is one of several videos Ryan has done to shed light on little known safety issues within motorcycling.
And he states all his sources, like I'd pay RF9 money to keep making videos if he ever gets dropped from fortnine (would be crazy because for me he's the guy I follow and not the website but idk how it's run) or wants to take a different direction
Um...I think Dexter Ford was "someone in the motorcycle journalism community."
The magazines get too much advertising cash to question this.
Damn, this production quality is off the charts. Great content!
I love the 50"s film noire feel to this video. Nicely done Ryan! Hard to accept that Snell and DOT can't change and adapt to better and more realistic standards that save their customers. I guess they really don't care about improving, but are hard headed and care more about making money.
"Hardheaded..." I see what you did there.
Unfortunately, what else do you expect from America?
@@SeraphimCramer Maybe to dominate the world like we have been doing for the last 78 years.
@@darthnatas953 Lol & there's the exact brand of American hard headedness & refusal to change I was talking about. We haven't dominated shit in the world in decades
@@SeraphimCramer The US economy is the largest in the world. Our military is the largest in the world. We have the most personal freedom in the world (in most states). US citizens have the largest per capita assets in the world. Our government spends the most money on the stupidest, most wasteful shit in the world. All this with very detrimental demographics compared with countries like Denmark, Sweden, etc. And in spite of half of US citizens either not working at all, or working for the government (which is actually worse for production, because government workers not only have to be provided for by people who actually produce worthwhile products and services, but many also actively stand in the way of production.)
The half of us that are working are so friggin productive that we can protect every country’s borders in the world except our own, with a military 10 times bigger than it needs to be, carry 25% of the people on our backs, all while swimming upstream against the other 25%.
We drove Russia in to bankruptcy, managed to babysit Europe for the last 75 years, fought several useless wars with no point, and still are able to hand out free stuff to nearly every country in the world. All while doing equally worthless stuff like flying to the moon.
China is next to get their butt kicked if we can get our fellow citizens to focus on what the actual problem is, instead of dreaming up fake problems to spend fake money on like the Earth possibly getting warmer or colder, or that medical care, education, or some other service that someone has to pay for is somehow a “right.”
The research and quality of this film is incredible as ever.
It missed a few things, like the DOT duration of g force and a puncture test, neither of which are considered in the ECE standard. Still the ECE is better, not just because it is newer, it has been around since at least 2005 from what I've understood.
@@MK-hb3xc unreal… 🤦🏼♂️
Every single video on this channel is absolutely fantastic, especially in the last 4-3 years, doesn't matter what topic it is, whether safety, reviews, tips,.. just keep on making them, best part of yt imo.
It's crazy, isn't it. Most channels would dream of hitting this quality level once, but they are doing it on a daily basis.
Dude kills it! Literally checks all boxes I’ve never even driven a motorcycle haha
Lord have mercy on the enemies of safe helmets, because Ryan sure won’t.
As always, very informative and entertaining content. Years ago I was involved in a low speed impact which caused a brain bleed. Head scan wasn't done since I had a 2010 SNELL rated helmet from a leading (high-end) brand. Since my recovery, I now recommend ECE over all others, because it is tested BEFORE getting a certification (sticker), and the fact that the testing if focused on low speed impacts as well as high. For the track, I now choose the FIM certified helmets. A few of us have been asked to tour the SNELL testing facility in the coming months; I suspect a lively discussion when the visit occurs. Your work is appreciated.
Your entertaining writing saves lives. I'm grateful your team exists to educate and inform new riders.
Seriously, if I hadn't stumbled across his channel I would still be riding with a cheap dot helmet. It was still within the return window so I sent it back and ordered a proper ece certified helmet
The execs at Snell are NOT going to be having a good Monday once this video makes its way across their desk….probably any minute now. I am imagining several emergency PR meetings and a “task force” being created, lol.
Im sure right now there is an email with the subject URGENT
@@helpfulcommenter every foundation and company has someone in charge.
This information has been out for a while. Ryan has even made videos about different ratings.
@@helpfulcommenter that's what they would like to make you think about them. Getting a non profit tag is a good way to keep your income from taxing.
They charge for their certification so they make money and they are fighting to keep their rating standard as the main one not ECE/FIM even if it saves lives.
SO tax evasion, care less about saving lives and more about licensing fees, making a half ass standard so their certified makers can sell in another safer standards territory!
Non profit my ass!
Ehh, those execs will probably discuss it and come up with 2 FortNine conclusions that justifies not making any smart changes
I can see 10 snell employees marked their attendance..
Prob 1 guy with alt accounts
Make that 27
make that 29 plus the one alt.
71
I keep asking myself "Why are these videos so short?" only to realize "Oh, it's actually 8 min long."
Because he doesn't stuff it with filler to make it past the 10 minute youtube preference algorithm. Though in this case he definintlry should - this is a PSA.
Aside from that, his videos are so damn good. I get so engrossed, I hardly notice time passing by
It is not so much the brevity, but the frequency of same. hate waiting a whole month between installments. The delivery has always been quite enjoyable and the touch of incredulity adds a strong factor of believable confidence. The entries from this year though by Ryan and even stronger and more powerful in presentation of vital topics. Very top sort and the industry should be paying close attention to this critical research. Well done Ryan . You are making our lives safer bit by bit. Probably not in the cards, but I for one would like bi-weekly or perhaps something every three weeks.
When choosing my helmet I went ECE all the way, no interest in Snell and know DOT means literally nothing. The sense I'd gotten was that Snell made more sense on the track, while ECE was more holistically focused for a street rider. This seems even a step further, that Snell wasn't even intended for motorcycles at all, but is designed around race cars. So why not just admit that, say ECE is what you want on a bike and Snell is what you want in a car? I guess they don't want to say that, as far more helmets are sold for motorcycling than for race car driving. This "double standard" without clarification of which it is makes it worse yet, as now even race car drivers who want the Snell standard - for what it was intended to be - won't know which are designed for that purpose. Sounds like a case of them sacrificing their entire purpose for existence in order to remain in existence. And, worse yet, they'll probably succeed, as only a few people will know this. Until F9 made this video, which is probably the worst thing to happen to them - Ryan better watch his back.
Really makes you wonder why Snell didn't just say "our safety standards are built around race cars, but we recognize that motorcyclists have different needs, so we've designed a second standard meant to apply to them" instead of trashing their entire brand by insisting their lids were the best for every application, while quietly undercutting their credibility by halfway trying to copycat ECE. Now no one can buy a Snell helmet for any purpose & be fully confident it'll save their life.
@@SeraphimCramer My guess is they don't want to do that because the market for racing car helmets is much smaller than motorcycle helmets. I've been dabbling in Rallycross, which requires Snell-rated helmets, they're already far more expensive and harder to find than ECE rated motorcycle helmets. Without also selling them to motorcyclists, the car-racing helmet market would be too small for Snell to survive, or at least would dramatically reduce their funding. If they did the separate motorcycle helmet qualification, it would be entirely redundant to ECE, and people would realize this fairly quickly, so nobody would seek out Snell-rated helmets if ECE is just as good. Thus they'd only be relevant for the tiny car-racing helmet niche. Probably a situation of money talking louder than purpose (and just that they're a nonprofit doesn't mean money isn't their #1 consideration).
Looking at the Snell website, it looks like they do have separate "M" series for motorcycle and "SA" for automotive, as well as others for bicycling, equestrian, and other stuff.
@@SeraphimCramer this is what we're all thinking. I think you need brainworms to become a bureaucrat of any sort.
In addition to being glad to see you drawing attention to this issue, I’m thoroughly impressed that a company that sells SNELL tagged helmets has the righteous fortitude to fund this video. Many thumbs up.
Edit: p.s. It’s well past time for every helmet retailer to make it easy to search helmets by certification and for the certifications and their meaning to be readily visible in every product listing. This is probably the most important thing to know about a helmet but it is usually the least obvious part of the product listing.
I'll stick with my ECE rated helmets. They do more accurate testing for crashes motorcyclists actually get in to.
Almost every major international brand has them both, and almost all of them get a 4 or 5star SHARP aftermarket lab rating.
You are unlikely to get a helmet that fails SHARP, even cheap China crap like HJC , Fuel or Scorpion....
Ride smart, don't duche ride and you most likely will never find out which is better.
@@STho205 You dont have to be a "duche rider" to get that kind of experience. Unfortunately someone i knew personally experienced it and that didnt end well...
@@seb9940 were they wearing a helmet?
@@STho205 HJC is definitely not cheap china crap
@@arsyadgafli8749 there is almost always a personal need to reinforce ones value by the product choices made in a branded consumer all basically the same market.
You can't be a man cause you don't smoke the brand I do used to be the old joke fifty years ago.
I have an HJC and it wore well. It was OK. It was a plastic outer shell, some igloo cooler extruded styrofoam, some laminate gray foam rubber with glue molded fabric. All the China buckets are that. They work for the purpose, but nothing to really cheer about.
When it got over six years, i took it apart to see hie it was built. The unsupported shell would squish in half under pressure. I hit it with a sander snf it holed in under a second. The styrofoam was.. styrofoam... But the padding waa taped onto it with gaffers tape. No sewing. The tape was dry and powdery.
It held together for six years, but probably any China "counterfeit" bucket would also. Since all China factories are controlled ultimately by ONE PARTY CORPORATION... is there really a difference. Last years revolutionary HJC is likely this years Alibaba/Amazon $80 special.
I'm sure you're fine. I'm sure you're safe. They would hold together enough for a typical accident... However the five year rule is being pushed because cheap construction doesn't last long. Like Chinese Clark Shoes that are just trading on an old Western brand name.
Damn people have the audacity to dislike this, its free quality content, What else do you want??
They work for Snell.
People very often don't seek information, but confirmation.
Can't do anything against those who don't find it and are unhappy about that fact...
It's the internet, and it's youtube. It would be more surprising if there _weren't_ any dislikes.
It would also be more surprising if there wasn't a comment amounting to 'how could there be dislikes'.
As far as youtube videos go, this is a VERY low dislike ratio. Which is not surprising, because it's an F9 video.
Free pancakes
@@IstasPumaNevada yeah, even on rare live concert footage of an old musician with a view count just over 100, there will still be dislikes.. it's just how youtube works for some reason
*hits helmet once*
No one:
*hits helmet twice*
Snell: Ah yes, safety
7:37 that conclusion scene ! 😍😍😍
Awesome job F9, as always!
You guys really nailed the noire film aesthetic with this one!
The bungie cords linking all the evidence together made me snort.
Ryan, I’d love to see one of your good old fashioned reviews on the Pan America. I’ve heard some good things about the bike, but I’m interested to see what you think of it.
I've heard lots of great from magazines, but not much from actual owners yet. Still being a new engine design I'd wait a couple years before buying one. But I do love the comfort and practicality of ADV bikes.
@@randombuilds8336 The only "Owner" review I saw was some Harley bro who talked up how much dirt biking he used to do then proceeded to drive the Pan America like a geriatric down a relatively smooth road. I wont be taking his opinion on the bike, that's for sure.
Been trying to get a hold of one! It's at the top of our to-do list. ~RF9
@@WPGKLR Seems that bro has a realistic idea of 150hp elephant bike off-road capabilities. You want extreme? Harley did it in the commercial.
Every fall on the Pan-am will cost like a slightly used Honda motocross bike.
@@FortNine you should ask revzilla :p
I started riding in 2008 and the wisdom then was “Snell, Snell, Snell, Snell!” Little did I know it would get so much more complicated only the next year.
When I bought a new helmet in ~2008 I went for the British Standard. Now I go for with ECE. Snell has not been relevant for years. Motorcyclist published an article ripping Snell in 2005 (same journalist who was fired from Motorcyclist for writing about Snell in the NYT).
@@cgmoog The article you mention is titled “Blowing the Lid Off” by Dexter Ford. It’s brilliant.
I started riding in 1972. Pretty much get a Bell helmet with a Snell sticker or risk your head to an unknown.
Almost 50 years later, I would expect changes.
For road bikes, I want a shell that smashes and absorbs energy when my head hits the flat area called pavement.
Off-road, keeping pointy rocks out of my skull and impact absorption are 2 considerations.
I would never seek out this video topic but once again, your amazing production quality keeps me coming back for more no matter what you choose to do.
Thank you F9 team for your service
Love the production values and Ryan F9 himself. This channel is so classy
A moment of silence to the one person that didn't like this quality content.
probebly someone who works at snell xd
There's two now so I'm guessing it's the president and vice president of Snell
1000% guaranteed it's the owner of a Snell approved helmet... that he just bought on fortnine 😂😂
@@nathanbossier2446 Most likely a bloke who suffered a crash wearing a Snell certified helmet. This raises the moral and philosophical question: "is someone who's brain-dead, but dislikes videos online, considered alive or deceased?"
That's me. F9 is only telling half of the story and this was very dishonest of him to do so. See, contrary to what he imply there are serious people working for motorbikers safety and doing their job with great care at Snell. And as you guessed, I am one of these people. I work as a HOST (Helmet Operator Special Tester) for Snell and we try our helmets in EVERY condition. The standard of quality is only making sure we reach the specific hardness or softness desired for either market. Nonetheless, I test those helmets myself in real conditions and I have crashed head first over a thousand times in testing already and see how I am not mentally impaired at all ? Snell quality for sure.
Best motorcycle content and production quality on YT… change my mind.
Ryan just absolutely blasting us with well researched and sourced videos in amazing quality. Seriously my favorite youtuber.
This video is very informative. I have been a Snell advocate for a long time without realizing the deficicts of the certification. Yet when I had my worst accident -- a 105 MPH getoff that put me tumbling through the Nevada desert, my Snell-certified Scorpion EXO700 helmet, was goughed, scaped, and scuffed on every square inch with a ripped-off shield, to boot. I ended up with a minor concussion, which I atttributed to being lucky enough not to strike anything solid while skimming the desert in low earth orbit. But after watching this report on the Snell certification, the helmet might have also contributed to my injuries by being just too damn hard.
Over 100 in the desert, and I'd say you'd be lucky to not be seriously injured even with the best gear.
no that helmet probably saved your life
@@GhostKing6790 You're probably right.
A big thank you to Ryan and the whole F9 crew, another great video, fll of information that I would have to dig through loads of paperwork to acquire. Also hats off to the lovely Film Noir styling. I really enjoyed this so thank you once again.
So basically:
SNELL ❌
ECE ✅
FIM is actually the checkmark here. But ECE is being pulled by them so it'll do
and FIM is best
@@andy_byrd FIM is for professional racers and offers the best protection at speed. However Its expensive. ECE is in General fine for most road users, and is cheaper to buy.
But as far as min standards go; ECE is far more practical and superior than the Snell Standard,
@@mateojimenez5905 But you only get fim on at least 1000$ helmets
@@ciprianb4794 Take a look at Scorpion EXO R-1 thats 500$ lid and passed FIM standards.
Ryan should be the modern twilight zone narrator...
Snell : we are best certification
Ryan : I'm about end this man's whole career 😂
Incredible journalism!!! I hope you guys have loads of awards!!! for Excellence!!!
Thank you for pointing out the real crucial value of this video - the journalism, sure the editing is top-notch but what Fort-9 has done is really draw attention to the politics of motorcycle helmets. Sure hope we don't miss this, as we congratulate the videography. Again the adage proves true - do anything well enough and you end up in philosophy[at least in ontology]
That was one of the best TH-cam clips! I am pretty disgusted by the Industry and Snell, I paid a bucket of cash for the best (safest helmet) I could get, thinking Snell would guarantee a top safe quality product....nope guess not. That pisses me off that a company is playing with our riders lives.
Ryan should check out India's revised ISI standards. That's even more messed up than this Snell situation.
Does it come with a BBQ GRILL bolted to one side like their motorcycles?
@@stoneblue1795luckily no !! Well, atleast for now anyway.
And that BBQ grill thingie is mandatory for the registration of any motorcycle.
And who is surprised that in India safety standards are borked?
@@reaper8887 yeah I'm curious about that bbq grill thingy in India. What purpose does it serve? Can you get rid of it after you've registered it?
@@RiloEltonThat contraption is called a "saree guard", it's designed to keep pillion riders "saree" or any other bulky clothing from getting caught in the sprockets or wheels and lead onto any accidents.
Even though that thing is mandatory for the road bikes here, most will get rid of it after the registration process is over.
When the DOT video out years ago, I was like "well, my helmet is not DOT only."
Me now: "crap..."
Yeah now I'm out here looking at new helmets.
Shit.
I got my helmet after watching the DOT video, went ECE as the sense I had at the time was Snell was for racing while ECE was more suitable for street riding. Now I hope he doesn't come out with one saying ECE is crap too... Even if he does, I'm guessing it's best of the three, and we all know crashing a motorcycle with any helmet isn't going to be fun.
@@quillmaurer6563 Well, ECE 22/06 (and some with 05 stickers) are basically the balance between budget and variety, versus top protection but limited options that FIM offers. However, in another 5 or so years (5 is probably optimistic, I admit) we might start seeing more budget friendly FIM helmets as manufacturers get a better handle on it and start larger production runs. Of course, then we'll have to contend with the grades of FIM, as there are multiple grades of the FIM standard. ECE will become the bare minimum for informed, sane riders, and the lowest rank of FIM will be be what most riders will actually look to get. Snell will probably start being phased out from motorcycles by then, I hope. They never really should have been used as a standard for motorcycle helmets, as the video illustrates.
DOT? That'll probably exist for quite some time as the legal bare minimum. The helmet equivalent of slapping on a barely functional part to a device to ensure the whole technically qualifies as legal to use.
@@ThatSoddingGamer I found myself thinking "What a valuable footnote for the video this is" while reading this comment. Good stuff, bro. Thanks for the intel ;)
@@alexsavastru8125 No problem dood, at least someone found it useful ^_^
i’ve been binge watching fortnine videos glad to see i’ve got another to add to the list
fortnine videos..always happy to see new uploads!!!
Honestly Ryan is the best in the business and no one comes close! So much effort, attention to detail, research and execution in all his videos. Big up to you mate👏👏👏
I'm only 34 seconds into this video and I'm ready to heap high praise. This is a vlog on the motor cycle industry, but already I see a production that is on par with with the best the move industry can must. .... Okay, back to the vlog .... This production deserves multiple academy awards: Story, information, ACTING, B&W, lighting. It is all so good. .... To sum it up - really good production. Really.
Best motorcycle-centric channel on YT. And I don’t even ride anymore…
"If the name can mean two different things, does it mean anything?"
This honestly sent chills down my spine. Snell is completely neglecting the very purpose of a helmet to keep their name on the European market.
Honestly, living in Europe, I haven't even heard of SNELL before watching this channel. My German Schuberth helmet is as an EU certificat.
@@vinvenus4581 I have a Schuberth too, so it's not my personal issue, but having unsafe helmets on the market is a real issue in general.
Business disregards safety in favor of greater profit. More news at 11.
@@ntdscherer Wouldn't be odd if it wasn't a company testing _mandatory_ safety equipment.
The Snell foundation is a non-profit
In asia, Shoei helmets are the thing to get.
Imagine thinking that hard helmets are safer on the day and age of crumple zones and shock absorption devices like airbags.
Any brand that races on FIM events has to be certified, there are lots of other brands that will follow the new ECE R22-06 .
In the limited space between the outside of the helmet and your head, where do you think the hard surface should be? I still want the exterior to be as hard and as impenetrable as possible , while having the most cushioning possible inside. Is there a part of your head that you would consider to be a safe "crumple zone"? The best improvement I feel has been made through the years and can further be made is in the overall weight of the helmet. Keep the hard shell exterior and soft interior, while reducing inertial load/strain on the neck as much as possible. Other areas I feel should be improved if possible are: outward visibility, hearing ability and ventilation comfort.
The only downside is that you can mess up your helmet when it just slips out of your hand from a 2 feet height and you wouldn't even know by looking at it :(
I'm more of a GIVI guy myself
@@reason2gether
The harder the shell, the more likely it is to shatter on impact.
A hard shell transmits more energy to the inside.
A softer shell absorbes energy by deforming.
Like a crumple zone.
Somebody please give this man more money to spread his videos all around the world. 200k views don’t do him justice.
This channel is one of the best in automotive space! Delivering useful information in the most creative and artistic way imaginable. I can only hope to get to close to this level some day!
Long-time watcher, first time commenter. This is a really important story, thanks for bring it to light to well.
@Huo Shing I vouch for Jon Madden, so you can trust it's important.
Ah. Happy to know this. Good thing I live in Europe so I can completely ignore Snell and only look for ECE and FIM.
Everybody can ignore Snell. It is not a street legal standard anywhere
but racetracks that impose it privately.
This video is important to the helmet marketing industry, like Ryan, Revzilla, etc... But not on the street.
@@STho205 it's still better than DOT so could be the better option for US folks that can't source an ECE bucket easily enough, altough there's little reason for that to be true with shops like fortnine and revzilla around
@@lemonbrothers3462 you know, a Ryan F9 video five years ago called "5 Safest Helmets" half of them had neither a Snell or ECE sticker.. And he said it didn't matter as they were safe. He was falling back on SHARP. His highest recommended one was the high viz Scorpion 490 which at that time had no ECE but a Snell 2015 (which is years after this video's stated controversy) and the HJC which only had a DOT sticker because it couldn't pass Snell and had never paid to get ECE. Both were China Buckets with flexible cheaper polycarb shells.
4 years ago he did the video Best Snell helmets where he sang the praises of Snell. Followed up a few weeks later with the horrible dangers of DOT.
When it finally comes down to it, these guys are entertainers and product salesmen. Ryan produces a nice polished video. He filled a week.
Ride safe... Your helmet is as good as you need...and I hope you never need it.
@@STho205 I have to agree with you. As much as I enjoy some of Ryan's videos, he's starting to sound more and more like a used car salesman.
@@STho205 That's not what I saw in those older videos. He correctly pointed out same thing in different way - how Snell was about a firm shell, and competing standard is about a flexible one, i.e. the harder vs. softer adjectives used in this current video. As I recall, he said neither is perfect (nothing is), but Snell's hard shells are a liability if not padded and fit correctly, and the softer standards are great for absorbing but not for point impact, etc. Too much absorb without a shape doesn't match our hard heads. Anyway, this science is changing with more testing - notice the football helmet changes in just the last few years.
No point in arguing with FIM, they are literally the authority on helmet safety
I'd agree, but Snell used to be the authority. Always question everything. They are only the authority because the data points to their standard being better right now, but lobotomies used to be a standard because they were better than what came before.
Question everything.
Until someone comes along with a better standard and FIM stubbornly sticks to their own formula. Seems like a common occurrence over the history of safety standards lol
@@mmaaddict78 legit, yeah. Standards don't change until someone calls out a different standard is bullshit. It becomes a money-making game eventually. Always starts out great.
@@johnb8440 except that the FIM standard isn’t there because they want to get their stickers onto helmets. Only a few helmets in the world actually are FIM certified.
The FIM rating is there because the FIM wants and NEEDS to protect their most important assets… MotoGP riders. The FIM is the motorcycle equivalent of the FIA. They’re the organisers of premier-class motorsport.
They don’t make their money from certifying equipment, they get their money from organising championships. Without the riders/drivers those championships are doomed, so they have to protect their riders to the best of their ability in order for them to protect their revenue.
@@johnb8440 except it wasn't really the authority, it seemed so because it was a requirement to enter a track but for long ECE has been considered better by a lot of people (until FIM showed up). Previous F9 videos showed just that, with SNELL being recomended if you wanted to go to a track, otherwise ECE.
Once had a discussion about this with a motorcycle supplier who believed I was in big danger because I'm riding with a ECE helmet and not a snell helmet.
Thanks for the great video.
I never comment on TH-cam, but this channel is something special. Quality all the way, from ideas to form and execution. Every time. Bravo!
I’m telling you, with this level of production quality motovlogs and camping trips would be top notch. Plus it would bring in a larger crowd. 👍
three cheers for the editor, amazing job.
Anish, the man behind the edits 🤩
Ok, as someone that stays in the other side of the world.. this is the first time hearing about snell XD
I had no idea snell isn't in the other side. A lot of tracks in my area (Canada) mandate SNELL rated helmets. DOT alone is not enough, ECE is yes or no depending on track.
Where you from? Here in EU shell is still very well known as well
@@madbull4666 SEA(south east asia)
@@gwot SEA(south east asia)
@@madbull4666 Never seen it in any west europe store but to be honest I only check the CE sticker or maybe I only take brands that don't care about it, don't know.
I watched quite a few Videos (20+ I'd say) of this Channel over the past few Days. Don't know why I just found it like a week ago..
But I am really astounded how well these Videos are made. The Scripts, the Stories, the Texts. On Point and straight forward. Really refreshing without any "Bullsh*t".
Plus, I love when Ryan makes use of that Blackboard and hits us with his Knowledge in Physics.
Big Fan of this Channel. Keep up the amazing work!
(Greetings from Germany)
I have been watching for a while on your channel, you make some of the best presented and most thoroughly researched content for motorcycling out there. Really, really appreciate your channel and thanks to the whole crew.
Ryan working so hard to investigate which standard for helmet is safer.
Meanwhile in India - Helmet must comply with Indian ISI standard which is basically low end version of ECE , Otherwise no matter how safe your helmet is, it's illegal.
That’s how it is almost everywhere, you must psd the local standard. In America all helmets must pass DOT. Thankfully almost all helmets that pass ECE also pass DOT.
Also the ECE certified helmets which are undoubtedly superior, are considered ILLEGAL, as if it was contraband. ffs
Go for Royal Enfield helmets, they are ISI DOT certified and ECE approved. Affordable too.
Its funny that we indian start using helmet only recently...few years before people used to say to people who use to wear helmets *that are you going to space..if not then why are you wearing that urn on your head* ..🙄
PS: ECE helmetes are more relevant in today's India because now the bike are getting faster so the chance of you rolling on the road and hitting your head on the multiple side has increased
But before the story was different
Do the police actually enforce it?
I've never seen a Snell sticker outside the US. I think the battle is long lost.
I have! they're in Canada too
Brilliant content as usual. Having looked at the FIM requirements and reasoning behind them, I strongly believe that the European ECE standards offer better protection for road and race riders.
FortNine is the only channel I have to full screen the videos because it's like a movie, love it
Having this channel for new riders is a blessing.
Love the "bring the receipts" sources list at the end.
oh come on, Ryan, you're about to kill another safety standard?
Worthless safety standards should be killed off.
@@UpstateDS No, they go to a farm upstate.
You mean unsafety standard, right?
I mean, yeah, Ryan's totally right, but bruh, he's on the killing spree
"Safety" standard
The production quality of this video on top of being hugely informative makes it absolutely exemplary. Earned a sub from me!
His videos just keep getting better and better. As an avid viewer for several years I did not think this was possible
One of the best motorcycle channels on YT - unbiased and masterclass video content. Not to mention, how many lives you are saving from educating us folks. Thanks Ryan and F9 Team.
We now have all the clues.
It was Ryan, in the garage, with the ECE standard...
I'm in India there is no ECE no Snell here yet I clicked, liked and watched ur video. Quality content as always
only ISI standard as per new rules, rest all certified helmets illegal 🤡
@@JaiSaldi yessss
actually there are many helmets company provide ECE 22.05 with DOT and ISI in India. to name a few royal Enfield, TVS, MT etc..
Now that's an education, love the packaging , it really makes getting the point better than easier.
God, this is one of the best channels since every frame a painting shut down
I have been bingeing FortNine tonight. I've been wearing DOT approved polycarbonate helmets since Motorcyclist Magazine published an article about the same topic in the 90s or 2000s citing the Hurt Report. I'm glad to see the NYT and FortNine picking up the story for us. Keep kicking a** in your moto journalism and I will keep watching. Can't believe the Snell Foundation still sticks to its no fact based approach. I always used to share that Motorcyclist Magazine article with fellow rider friends. In this day and age, this will become my standard share along with your airbag gear reviews. No more expensive gear for me with CE rated armour either!!!
Welcome to the club!
Hey Ryan! Could we get a video honestly reviewing internet gear companies like Ruroc, skully, engine hawk, etc.????
I'd be really interested in his opinion on Ruroc.
Oh pleaseeee
We need this!!!
This. Ruroc seems nice at first glance ( and Enginehawk by extension) but there's something that feels off about the whole deal.
Only detective Ryan can make helmets exciting and interesting 😂
So what's the takeaway here? That ECE is the sticker to look for now, not Snell?
If you buy a Snell helmet you don't know on first glance if you get the hard Snell D, or just a worse ECE.
Whether Snell D or ECE is right, Snell R is certainly wrong.
@@kilianortmann9979 gotcha that makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
More or less. I mean Snell is great if you hit a curb or hit a bollard with your head; but the reality is you gonna be bouncing on the road. In such a case snell standards lack the durability. Great for massive single impact damage, but anyone whose had a tumble knows thats rarely the case.
ECE standards are just better for realistic crashes.
yup FIM is still the safest but those helmets are expensive and rare, so ECE is the way to go
@MINISTER MOTOVLOGS HOL' UP
Fantastic point .
Brave journalism and worth praising ..
SNIL certified helmets are tested for cars ,not motorcycles...
Very few of us knew that ...
Good video/info, and holy crap, what an awesome production. Bravo!
I'm simply impressed by how creative and enjoyable all of his videos are.
It looks like he's having so much filming these.
Love from France man, keep up the quality content !
I wish that someone would make a FIM Adventure / Dual Sport helmet I’d be all over it in a heartbeat
With the level the FIM is considering for velocity of impact be glad you don't have one. They are looking at rate of acceleration that is so high it is not a survivable situation and, in turn, will make the helmet transmit more shock because the helmet/liner need to be made harder/stiffer to meet that unsurvivable standard. Dual sport helmets are dealing with rates of acceleration at 1/2-1/3 that of the FIM and done right will have a more flexible giving shell and liner to suit, transmitting less shock to the brain. Go to 10:50 in this video to understand what they are doing th-cam.com/video/QmMa32byIJA/w-d-xo.html And yes I realize the video is about 50% promotion of 6D, but the other 50% is dealing with the standards. Even includes what is good in the DOT standard and missing in others. See 2:55 in the video, understand what is missing from ECE and should be added.
I love your videos F9 you doing some of the highest quality videos on TH-cam! Thank you as a rider for bringing up motorcyclist safety issues that need to be addressed for all of us to be safer!
The content on this channel is far better than most. Thank you Ryan and all involved behind the scenes.
BRAVO BRAVO 👏 🙌 👍🏻 👌 Even before I start to think about how high standard was the script and research.. The production value was OUTSTANDING!!! JUST OUTSTANDINGLY GOOD!!!
I PRAY YOU KEEP BRINGING SUCH JOURNALISTIC GEMS FOR MANY YEARS TO COME!!!
You’re back! I was getting worried for a second ..
For really thorough testing have a look at the UK's Sharp helmet safety scheme.
That is a good point and was not brought up here - sharp.dft.gov.uk/sharp-testing/. Some of the impact speeds are lower than ECE/FIP 6.0m/s - 8.5m/. That said always cross compare with other testing. Arai has not always gotten top marks on some of their helmets at Sharp. This lead to the lowering of the visor hinge on newer models to improve side impact testing (at least that is my understanding).
Sharp was the reason I bought my HJC IS-17 as my first helmet. Don't always have to pay the big bucks to get the good stuff. shame that model is now discontinued.
Sharp never seems to get enough love, it seems.
Now I feel like wearing a trench coat and smoking a cigaret in a dimly lit office....And I don't even smoke.
The FIM gelmets available to the public are:
AGV Pista R;
AGV Pista RR;
Bell Pro Star Carbon FIM;
Arai RX-7V Racing;
Shark Race-R Pro GP FIM;
LS2 FF323 Arrow C Racing FIM 2020 Carbon;
LS2 805 Thunder Racing FIM 2020 Carbon.
Thank you for this. I grew up with the notion that Snell was tip top, and never questioned why.
I'll be passing this along to my piers.
While you guys are hanging out at the piers, pass this info along to your peers.