I used this as a resource on a research paper based around tech requirements and updated rules. Teacher pulled me aside and told me thank you. Her son was buying a bike and gear and was looking at a helmet with dot certification but no ece or snell
So very well done and mighty interesting content. Back here, we just dodged the bullet of the legal system unwilling in adopting international standards and mandating the good ol’ ISI Glad to know we watch each others content - Automotive TH-camrs Represent!
PowerDrift have we actually dodged it? i have heard the govt has imposed a new rule that all non ISI helmets will be banned? i myself have an mt helmet btw and its DOT, is it really that weak?
I guess we've got a way bigger problem than the govt mandating only is I helmets to be worn. Our market is full of fakes left , right and centre. Lots of seemingly trusted branded helmets hardly survive a slip or slide.
PowerDrift why don't we start a campaign like this? There are a lot of big influencers along with thousands of Indian bikers that will help in this campaign!
@Keali'i Cooper i dont use yt on my phone the app is annoying and the screen too small. but some people also dislike a video that they didn't want recommended to them. which is stupid. i mostly only dislike videos that disable comments inhibiting our right to talk about something. its especially annoying when they use wrong information.
I wish there were more people in the world who put as much time, energy and effort into what they do as you. It must have taken weeks if not months of research and studying to dig up all this dirt on them
As someone who has a hat size of around 8-3/4 to 8-5/8, I would have to say that finding ANY helmet that will fit is challenging enough, regardless of certification standards. Even the ones that are Snell rated seem to only be Snell rated in the smaller sizes. Regardless, I've had some pretty good accidents over the years that resulted in broken bones and internal injuries that did not result in any head injuries despite landing face first in at least one of them. I figure that even a crappy full face helmet is better than NO helmet... Been riding for over 50 years and haven't had an accident in around 40...
happens to everyone regardless of their education level... a few months ago an experienced doctor friend (that sometimes rides her scooter at work) wanted to make sure I was using a proper helmet and checked if it's DOT approved.. well, all of my helmets are but one can 'feel' a huge difference between a $39 Bell and a Neotec.. and then there are the cruiser caps, no padding no nothing for states like Az where one can ride with no helmet..
The second I saw “D.O.T. Approved” on one of those half helmets when I was a kid, I quit trusting them. D.O.T. Approval means nothing to me. I look for Snell and E.C.E. My Bell Star DLX MIPS took a nasty hit in my accident last summer when I was hit. But I made it out with not even so much as a headache. So I bought the same helmet again. I’ve tested it, and it worked great!
@@nigelpisswater6344 I just look for it to have at least one. Both is better, but either of them are better than D.O.T. Usually helmets that are approved by all 3 are pretty expensive. But if you find a helmet you like that's approved by all three, and you can afford it, I'd definitely go for it. iirc my gf (who also rides) did some research on E.C.E. and Snell and I think she said Snell is the most strict out of all of them, but it was really an even tradeoff of pros and cons between Snell and E.C.E.
Ths channel is so underrated. You are saving lives by telling everyone that DOT helmets aren't as safe as they think You guys clearly worked really hard on this one Great job 👏👏
This is one of the most well done TH-cam videos I’ve ever seen. Outstanding work; great cinematography, great lighting, great acting, great information. Truly a masterpiece that I hope you are proud of.
Great Job on the video...you need to make them more often! Aside from that though, I have seen conflicting data. Many of the softer shelled DOT lids transferred less energy to the head than the stiff Snell lids did in a Cycle World Test some years ago. The foam and padding was stiffer in the Snells and transferred more energy, but resisted puncture better. The stiffer, thicker shell on Snell helmets was more resistant to a second Identical hit in the exact same spot (which I cant see happening in the real world) than the DOTs, but many times the g-force on the first hit was significantly higher on the snell rating. Im certainly not saying that the bureaucrats have done their jobs at DOT... just that Ive seen other data. I also noted that your sources listed Snell... which will obviously say they are best haha. All that said, Snell helmets are usually higher build quality, and the foam and padding may well have changed since Cycle Worlds testing, which I remember to be around 2009. And lastly, my helmets are Snell, if for nothing else than to comply with Track Day requirements. Thanks for the good work!
You raise another *very* interesting story there. The Snell M2005 standard was widely regarded as "too hard." Like you say, the stiff foam transferred too much energy at low velocity impacts (the majority of crashes). A doctor and one-time Snell employee came out saying that Snell used the hard foam to boast extremely good high velocity impact numbers, which was essentially a marketing gimmick that actually decreased safety in most crashes. He was fired over it I believe. In the end Snell took their medicine and made big changes for M2010. Since then their standard has been in agreement with most everyone else. Thanks for bringing this up! ~RF9
The helmet article underlying this and that people still talk about actually goes back to 2005, "Blowing the Lid Off," (in that article the "marketing gimmick" quote was attributed to Jim Newman, a former Snell director) as well as a later article in 2009 in the New York Times, "Sorting Out Differences in Helmet Standards" both by Dexter Ford and revolve around the 2005 Snell standard. In some ways - as you point out - they are ancient history as Snell subsequently implemented both a 2010 and 2015 standard. The fired person you are perhaps thinking of may be the same Dexter Ford, a journalist, whose departure from Motorcyclist many believe was over the NYT article. Search "How the truth about motorcycle helmets got a journalist fired."
RevHiker> An excellent reply...and subsequent follow-up conversation! But, you questioned the likeliness of repeated impacts to the same spot on a helmet... just think of a rider that is sliding on their back, and the back of their head repeatedly hits the ground and bounces, then hits again and again...on the same part of the helmet...maybe not SO "exact" as hitting a pencil mark, but certainly in the same "fracture zone" of maybe a 2" to 3" circle... For example, I was in a 'lay-down' where I hit some oil on the roadway, and I 'tumbled' to a stop... My head had hit the ground 5 times...all within a 2 1/2" scuff mark! I certainly am NOT an impact specialist / engineer or anything of the sort... but it seems to me that a very effective material to use as part of the internal padding and energy 're-distribution' would be the 'compression gel; that we see so much in seats and auxiliary pads. The prime objective in protecting the brain from concussion is 'deceleration' rather than the 'sudden stop' of smashing into the inside of the skull. I have actually 'installed' some layers of the stuff in the back of the helmet I wear most often. It makes the helmet a more 'perfect fit' for my head shape, and is quite comfortable. (And even made the helmet a little quieter.)
Researching for my latest video I realized that DOT doesn't compare well to ECE22.05, SNELL and SHARP, but I never called it like it is, like you did: dangerous! Great video, guys.
@@VictorPRV The booklet for my Schuberth says it's ECE rated but I can't use it in any other region that uses the DOT certification. Now I'm questioning is it really just the DOT sticker on the back or are there two different versions for our and the North American market
I always knew the DOT standard was bad, but I didn't realise just how incredibly bad, and just how frankly negligent they have been. Personally I go with the SHARP testing, they seem to really be on the ball. A very recent standard which scores from fail up to 5 stars developed by some of the most influential doctors of this topic using real world data from hospitals and large scale studies. Also with trust issues such as refusing to take helmets from the manufacturers and instead buy from random stores in random locations. It seems to have everything I want from a testing standard.
Oh, and how do you know this? Please point me to the research you have looked up. You are misinformed about DOT. Look up research and comparison tests and you will find that Snell always ends up in last place when it comes to protection. The pecking order is DOT best, ECE a close second and Snell last - in every test: high speed, low speed, sharp, hemispherical or flat impact surface. Sharp is good, but the helmets sold in Great Britain are not always the same as the ones available in the U.S. As a motorcycle safety professional, I have not found a Snell-rated helmet I would feel comfortable with. Too hard, bad for the brain.
@@alex.m901 Fortunately I'm from Britain so the helmets tested absolutely are the ones I'm using. But that aside, the fact that SHARP refuses to test a helmet which doesn't pass ECE really makes your criticism faulty. If I'm buying a highly rated SHARP helmet there's a much better chance it's going to protect me compared to a DOT helmet which might pass, might scrape through. But that becomes a whole lot worse when we consider the testing body. DOT relying on "just be honest guys" makes it a massive flaw. That simply does not fly for lifesaving equipment. When we go back to ECE vs DOT, would I bet my life on the fact they haven't tipped the scales in their favour or would I take a test which you suggest is very slightly worse? Adding SHARP testing beyond that obviously allows consumers to avoid helmets which barely meet the standard. Snell of course is cancer. It's a large part of the reason why American helmets are often worse. We would all be safer if Snell were struck from the list entirely, even if nothing replaced it.
I stand in amazement of the depth and quality of the research you put into this video. You deserve recognition from all motorcyclists. That said, I wish to make it clear that any helmet is better than no helmet, and even an unrated helmet might make the difference between serious head injury and no injury at all. The event that brought motorcycle helmets into existence was the 1935 death of T.E. Lawrence after he crashed his Brough motorcycle at low speed. The fact that he lingered for days before succumbing to his injury suggests that even the cheapest of the modern helmets now available could have saved his life. More recently, I heard many horror stories about the fragility of helmets of Chinese origin. Happily, a neighbor brought me an off-brand helmet that somebody had discarded, cheaply made and obviously inferior, and asked me if it was good for anything. After I assured her that it was not, she agreed to let me attack it to demonstrate its flimsy construction. I put the helmet on the ground, took a two-pound, steel hammer and blasted away with full swings. I was unable to break the shell. The lesson I learned there was, listen to the experts such as FortNine, buy the best helmet you can afford, but ANY helmet is better than no helmet, and may save your life--if you wear it.
While i do agree that any helmet is better than no helmet, building sub par products that do not meet the standards while charging the same amount or more than other helmets which pass the standard should be brought to justice by enforcing the said standards properly to ensure the consumers get the best for their money.
I love the fact that you're trying to expose this certification!!! It needs to be changed, me, and the rest of the biking community thanks you bro! glad to see normal people care about other peoples safety, have a great day man
My father worked at a dealer for ages, and his first bit of advice when I went to get my own was "Get an Arai or a Shoei, and make sure it's Snell-Rated."
1000$ (CAD) on an Arai Corsair V, and 850$ on a Bell Star Carbon... We 'usually' get better build quality and better materials by forking over a few more $$$$. You get what you pay for...
I almost died due to a DOT helmet on a BMX track. The chin bar exploded on impact, cutting my lips almost all the way off, breaking my nose, and I bit off pretty much my entire tongue. I almost bled out, and I had a concussion so bad, I couldn't remember where I was for the longest time. Ever since then, I buy a new SNELL helmet every 5 years. The last thing I want is to spend another week in a hospital from a relatively low speed crash.
Ok. Despite all those reviews and "best some equipment for something" videos that is really outstanding! These 'informative' kind of videos are important as well. But, as a art director I must say. Damn FortNine! You guys are really raising some bars with technical information alongside with awesome video production!! Congratulations on this effort to make such important content with incredible looks! Best regards from Brazil!
Seriously, you have no business making such good videos. These are criminally well made. Interesting, educational, and charming. Kudos to you and the others at FortNine. For those of us, (like me,) who are newer to riding, what was that site/program/do-hickey you were using to look up the safety data on those helmets? I'd certainly like to see if they've got data for my lid and how it stacks up to the competition.
When everything meets the standard the standard is useless! Very well said my northern neighbors. This is one of the primary reasons why I could care less about DOT certs and only buy helmets with a SNELL sticker.
MtnMoto Snell is bullshit too bc they use a needle instead of a wall for impacts, which only makes sense if you're getting shot at, not if you're crashing.
I think this self-certification thing is what shocked me most of working in the transportation industry. We were building school buses and class 8 trucks. Things that can crush a car to the size of a cement block. 100% self-certified. Nothing shady happened at that company, but I still could see where one could cheat. Coming from the building electrical industry where everything must 3rd party certified by approved labs, I couldn't believe it.
@@TURBOTWINKIE Pretty sure most of those kid toy videos are watched by... drumroll... kids. Good luck getting them to care about things they're too young for, lol.
I knew DOT was bad, I did not know it was this awful and downright dangerous. As a new rider I'd of gotten a DOT helmet, thank god I didn't in the end but I'm honestly scared for the people that did and trust that they're safe. Thanks for shining a light on this.
Bit late to this party but do want to compliment F9 for this excellent video ... and share an experience that enlightened me to the fact DOT rated helmets should be considered sub-par head protection. When my daughter and I got into sanctioned kart racing, the rules specified SNELL rated helmets for all sanctioned events ... it didn't take long after that to find answers to the many questions spawned by that particular rule ... and since then, some 8 years ago now, it's been SNELL rated helmets for me and anyone I know and am able to influence. This past year, while looking for a new lid, I was surprised to learn how many of the high end helmet manufactures have given up a SNELL rating to offer the in-helmet, slide down, sun-visor "feature" ... I'm going to assume SNELL did their due diligence and found these designs reduced the protection performance necessary to achieve the rating ... and in my mind, that's enough to go old-school and just wear sunglasses or a tinted visor. Hope this adds some value to the original post ... don't expect many will ever see it but thought it worth putting up under this video heading. Again, excellent job to F9 ... interesting, informative and entertaining ... thank you!
Main thing is if you buy a big brand helmet you are likely getting the best protection not because they care for it, but because it makes it easier to sell across multiple countries with tougher safety ratings.
Guys, r u serious there at f9? This more Hollywood than TH-cam! is better than some mainstream movies! Way way better than any comparable channel on utube. superb! thanks! About the content itself would you make some comparison with CE standards as well? Keep it coming!
I just picked up my first bike a couple weeks ago, saw this and some other videos of yours on helmets, immediately returned the dot helmet I got and went for a properly certified helmet instead. Thanks, some of us really don't knowb
Thank you fortnine! I was waiting for someone to cover this. I have always found the DOT certification not so confidence inspiring. Now I can share your video :) Great work btw. Loved the way it was filmed! 🤗
AWESOME video- please keep up the great work. Videos like this are more than interesting, but informative to motorcycle riders and those who have never been on one a day in their lives. Thank you.
Great video. Many are commenting that 'They' have these requirements, but 'They' don't enforce them, yet 'They' require us to wear them. The DOT does not require the use of helmets. Your states do that. The DOT just sets standards for the required stickers. In many states you are NOT required to wear a helmet. Some states require a DOT helmet. Some states say you must wear a helmet that is on their approved list while not even having a list. Contacting DOT to report non compliance is a waste of time. I know from experience. Still, videos like this are great for information for the user who care. Thanks.
So, what about SNELL versus ECE ratings? Because I've read that some helmets with SNELL certifications are tested AFTER release to the public and can slip through the cracks, while ECE rated helmets must be tested BEFORE they are put out on the market.
Snell not only tests helmets, but they also work alongside the companies to design helmets. They also do required spot checks before after and during manufacturing. If the company says no to snell then snell removes their license for the company to use their certification.
About 5-6 years ago I was riding around on a friends private property which he let anyone ride on and I was only about 8 and I saw a cracked wide open helmet hanging in a tree. I’m assuming someone put it there but just the thought that a helmet like that was supposed to protect your memories, thoughts, and everything you know shivered me.
Great content and I love the little allusions to things like McConaughey Lincoln commercials. Keep on having fun with it and don’t burn out. You are producing a lot of content so keep the quality high and I will gladly accept fewer videos if that is the Faustian bargain you have to make with TH-cam.
That was such a great piece and I was wondering why not many people are talking about it in comments.. But then the video is about a serious concern; and that deserves a serious discussion.. So be it.. So a brilliant piece, but yeah, maybe bad placement..
I usually try to find a modular that passes the ECE standard as well as DOT. Obviously this video took a lot of research, but can anyone comment on whether or not the ECE standard is safer? I just sort of assumed that the EU is more safety conscious so I'm getting a better helmet when I buy one that passed both. I buy modulars so I'll probably never buy a Snell bucket.
ECE is much safer than DOT. 300g limit, widespread batch testing, more comprehensive impact test zones. Also their certification is 110 pages long versus DOT's 20. Not that length automatically means conscientiousness, but in this case it does! ~RF9
Checking the SHARP ratings is definitely a good idea! I recently took several helmets off my list due to poor sharp performance. There are quite a few helmets that are sold in the USA that haven't been tested by sharp yet, especially dual sport/ADV helmets. Now I'm just going to save up for the new AGV carbon flip up and hope I don't break it prematurely like my last Schuberth.
I remember listening to an interview with the head of snell a while back saying that the only reason there aren’t snell modulars is that nobody is submitting them for testing. Whether that’s because they wouldn’t pass as well I don’t know. (Edit) Here it is: overcast.fm/+BNCzO-NAk/12:46
Ill disagree Im afraid Touch of Grey. Decent lids have saved many lives and we know companies on a whole dont care about safety, this video proves it. The UK we use ECE, SNELL and SHARP. ECE is the main one to look for. For a closed face a gold BMS sticker on the back is a plus, it means its homologated for track use as well.
The UK SHARP site is a great resource for getting test data on helmets, every helmet legal for use in the UK has to have its test results on that site.
I know that what you're telling is important too, but I was just mesmerised by the production quality. I've seen multi-million dollar movies that were not even close to this.
Hey Fort, now you can add "noir" to your list of video achievements. This informative clip is not only a public service, it has a ton (100mph) of excellent stylistic features and clever references. Thanks for taking the time to expose this important information and thanks a second time for doing it with so much class and elan.
New canuck rider here and I was looking at my first helmet... was informed DOT was wha I needed and dont spend more for Snell. Thank you guys, I will spend a little more for a Snell rated helmet for me and my wife.
It's true DOT is complete nonsense... But here it's better than Indian ISI or comparable is what we believe. And mine is also ECE rated. Topic is amazing and as always well covered!
I would call bullshit on your claim I went through ISI 4151(ISO), peak acceleration is 275g, there is a visor test standard IS 9973, there are total of eight sizes defined, www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf I am no impact test engineer, but the standard spec does seems better in at least these aspects.
these videoss have no right being so good. i really think this guy makes them from a sheer since of pride and the talent to flex on even the biggest motovloggers on youtube. unbelivable!
They kinda toss credibility out the window making a video like that and not even acknowledging this video or amending on it. If Snell is so bad why would they keep this video up praising it? Keep in mind this was 3yrs old yet the Snell 2015 rating is referenced in both, so it’s not like there were any changes.
Yes, I think ECE is much better. 300g limit, widespread sample testing, more comprehensive impact areas. To give an example of the conscientiousness, the ECE criteria is 110 pages while the DOT is 20. ~RF9
(For those that don't know.) SHARP is the UK's add on to the ECE ratings. So only helmets that have passed ECE, will get a SHARP Rating.The only problem with the SHARP, is translating the UK/Euro Models to the North American Models. Given name changes, and the fact UK sold helmets, may differ quite a bit from those of the Americas.
Sad story. Great video. Real crooks are the helmet manufacturers.... they know how to make safe helmets! So why are there still unsafe helmets, gentlemen! And any driver is responsible to spend the money on a safe helmet, not on a fancy, limited edition, special paintwork, etc helmet. Those stickers will not save your life. White, hi-viz yellow, green or orange, a.k.a. BEING SEEN, is better than crashing with the safest helmet. No fashion but a perfect fit (take your time to try more brands, put them on YOUR unique head). And a safe helmet will not stay safe forever. Replace in time. No DOT, ECE or whatever stamp of approval will replace common sense. Safety starts with using the grey matter inside your skull. Drive safely!
Thank you for the quality production! Ensuring I can get the most vivid image of my skull being smashed is of the utmost importance to me. Also, please remember to return my grandpa's fedora to his coffin when you are finished with it.
So nice to see a vlogger, if thats the word. Putting out something useful and informative . Not just sjowing you what the just learned in school and calling techniques there own. And pumping out as many videos as possible regardless of how foolish. Thank you!
I think a lot of riders have some notion about the pedigree of the Snell foundation. I think it’s cool to offer the “humble” beginnings of the DOT standard for the market’s consideration. ¡Thanks!
You are always trying something new with your videos. Its been hit or miss for me with most, but I am blown away by this video. Its amazing, keep up the good work!
I used this as a resource on a research paper based around tech requirements and updated rules. Teacher pulled me aside and told me thank you. Her son was buying a bike and gear and was looking at a helmet with dot certification but no ece or snell
"I've been testing helmets long before anyone paid me to do it..."
Dude I lost it so hard. That was phenomenal.
++
Nailed the McConaughey booger roll to boot
Frikin Lincoln adds haha
That gave me drinking-game nam flashbacks
Can someone explain the reference? :D
So very well done and mighty interesting content. Back here, we just dodged the bullet of the legal system unwilling in adopting international standards and mandating the good ol’ ISI
Glad to know we watch each others content - Automotive TH-camrs Represent!
PowerDrift have we actually dodged it? i have heard the govt has imposed a new rule that all non ISI helmets will be banned? i myself have an mt helmet btw and its DOT, is it really that weak?
I guess we've got a way bigger problem than the govt mandating only is I helmets to be worn. Our market is full of fakes left , right and centre. Lots of seemingly trusted branded helmets hardly survive a slip or slide.
PowerDrift why don't we start a campaign like this? There are a lot of big influencers along with thousands of Indian bikers that will help in this campaign!
Shut up chuthiyeeee
PowerDrift huhuhu
Those dislikes are from DOT officials
Wow. 526 down votes?How can you disagree with this video?
@@johnthomas2485 Helmet manufacturers
i swear there are people out there that just down vote everything for fun.
@Keali'i Cooper i dont use yt on my phone the app is annoying and the screen too small.
but some people also dislike a video that they didn't want recommended to them. which is stupid.
i mostly only dislike videos that disable comments inhibiting our right to talk about something. its especially annoying when they use wrong information.
Not forgetting the mucking fuppets that dont wear helmets.
I wish there were more people in the world who put as much time, energy and effort into what they do as you. It must have taken weeks if not months of research and studying to dig up all this dirt on them
Rumor is it took him 1 hour and two cherry cokes
The cinematography is oustanding 😱 Also great story telling! 💪
isn't it ridiculous that they force you to wear a helmet but they don't actually care if the helmet is worth anything?
It's the same with car insurance. Welcome to " the system has failed".
tpcs oh no, not me. I live in Europe, we have ECE :D
Only a small number of US states have helmet laws, in most states you go lidless if you want a Darwin award that badly.
Welcome to government.
jazztom86 - Just another example of the "feel good" laws and regulations were deal with everyday.
As someone who has a hat size of around 8-3/4 to 8-5/8, I would have to say that finding ANY helmet that will fit is challenging enough, regardless of certification standards. Even the ones that are Snell rated seem to only be Snell rated in the smaller sizes. Regardless, I've had some pretty good accidents over the years that resulted in broken bones and internal injuries that did not result in any head injuries despite landing face first in at least one of them. I figure that even a crappy full face helmet is better than NO helmet... Been riding for over 50 years and haven't had an accident in around 40...
Thats cool but not really relevant
I actually had no idea... I fell into the "Its D.O.T so we're good to go 👍" crowd
Me too!!
happens to everyone regardless of their education level... a few months ago an experienced doctor friend (that sometimes rides her scooter at work) wanted to make sure I was using a proper helmet and checked if it's DOT approved.. well, all of my helmets are but one can 'feel' a huge difference between a $39 Bell and a Neotec.. and then there are the cruiser caps, no padding no nothing for states like Az where one can ride with no helmet..
saaame. I bought mine for $55 on Aliexpress, so I kinda expected quality issues.. :c
@@amiesports you trudt your head with a 50€ aliexpress helmet
@@amiesports your brain is worth atleast 300 lol
The second I saw “D.O.T. Approved” on one of those half helmets when I was a kid, I quit trusting them. D.O.T. Approval means nothing to me. I look for Snell and E.C.E.
My Bell Star DLX MIPS took a nasty hit in my accident last summer when I was hit. But I made it out with not even so much as a headache. So I bought the same helmet again. I’ve tested it, and it worked great!
Well this comment is a year old so I don't expect you to reply, but do you look for Snell and E.C.E. or just one or the other?
@@nigelpisswater6344 I just look for it to have at least one. Both is better, but either of them are better than D.O.T. Usually helmets that are approved by all 3 are pretty expensive. But if you find a helmet you like that's approved by all three, and you can afford it, I'd definitely go for it.
iirc my gf (who also rides) did some research on E.C.E. and Snell and I think she said Snell is the most strict out of all of them, but it was really an even tradeoff of pros and cons between Snell and E.C.E.
@@brickson98m the channel has another video diving into Snell ratings. Snell is great for car racing, subpar for motorcyclists.
this channel have video about snell certification is not ideal or kindaof disguise @@GuitarGuy650
The ammount of work and effort you put in these videos is truly outstading. Especially when the result comes out like this. Great job!
Ths channel is so underrated. You are saving lives by telling everyone that DOT helmets aren't as safe as they think
You guys clearly worked really hard on this one Great job 👏👏
God damn this production quality is fantastic. Great video!
This is one of the most well done TH-cam videos I’ve ever seen. Outstanding work; great cinematography, great lighting, great acting, great information. Truly a masterpiece that I hope you are proud of.
Great Job on the video...you need to make them more often! Aside from that though, I have seen conflicting data. Many of the softer shelled DOT lids transferred less energy to the head than the stiff Snell lids did in a Cycle World Test some years ago. The foam and padding was stiffer in the Snells and transferred more energy, but resisted puncture better. The stiffer, thicker shell on Snell helmets was more resistant to a second Identical hit in the exact same spot (which I cant see happening in the real world) than the DOTs, but many times the g-force on the first hit was significantly higher on the snell rating. Im certainly not saying that the bureaucrats have done their jobs at DOT... just that Ive seen other data. I also noted that your sources listed Snell... which will obviously say they are best haha. All that said, Snell helmets are usually higher build quality, and the foam and padding may well have changed since Cycle Worlds testing, which I remember to be around 2009. And lastly, my helmets are Snell, if for nothing else than to comply with Track Day requirements. Thanks for the good work!
You raise another *very* interesting story there. The Snell M2005 standard was widely regarded as "too hard." Like you say, the stiff foam transferred too much energy at low velocity impacts (the majority of crashes). A doctor and one-time Snell employee came out saying that Snell used the hard foam to boast extremely good high velocity impact numbers, which was essentially a marketing gimmick that actually decreased safety in most crashes. He was fired over it I believe. In the end Snell took their medicine and made big changes for M2010. Since then their standard has been in agreement with most everyone else. Thanks for bringing this up! ~RF9
FortNine ah... I see. Thanks for the update👍
The helmet article underlying this and that people still talk about actually goes back to 2005, "Blowing the Lid Off," (in that article the "marketing gimmick" quote was attributed to Jim Newman, a former Snell director) as well as a later article in 2009 in the New York Times, "Sorting Out Differences in Helmet Standards" both by Dexter Ford and revolve around the 2005 Snell standard. In some ways - as you point out - they are ancient history as Snell subsequently implemented both a 2010 and 2015 standard. The fired person you are perhaps thinking of may be the same Dexter Ford, a journalist, whose departure from Motorcyclist many believe was over the NYT article. Search "How the truth about motorcycle helmets got a journalist fired."
FortNine how about a follow up on this and ECE? Great video!
RevHiker> An excellent reply...and subsequent follow-up conversation!
But, you questioned the likeliness of repeated impacts to the same spot on a helmet... just think of a rider that is sliding on their back, and the back of their head repeatedly hits the ground and bounces, then hits again and again...on the same part of the helmet...maybe not SO "exact" as hitting a pencil mark, but certainly in the same "fracture zone" of maybe a 2" to 3" circle... For example, I was in a 'lay-down' where I hit some oil on the roadway, and I 'tumbled' to a stop... My head had hit the ground 5 times...all within a 2 1/2" scuff mark!
I certainly am NOT an impact specialist / engineer or anything of the sort... but it seems to me that a very effective material to use as part of the internal padding and energy 're-distribution' would be the 'compression gel; that we see so much in seats and auxiliary pads. The prime objective in protecting the brain from concussion is 'deceleration' rather than the 'sudden stop' of smashing into the inside of the skull. I have actually 'installed' some layers of the stuff in the back of the helmet I wear most often. It makes the helmet a more 'perfect fit' for my head shape, and is quite comfortable. (And even made the helmet a little quieter.)
Researching for my latest video I realized that DOT doesn't compare well to ECE22.05, SNELL and SHARP, but I never called it like it is, like you did: dangerous! Great video, guys.
yes, at least in EU we are safe!
@@VictorPRV hopefully
@@VictorPRV The booklet for my Schuberth says it's ECE rated but I can't use it in any other region that uses the DOT certification. Now I'm questioning is it really just the DOT sticker on the back or are there two different versions for our and the North American market
At the time of your comment they updated the standard to 22.06 :)
I always knew the DOT standard was bad, but I didn't realise just how incredibly bad, and just how frankly negligent they have been. Personally I go with the SHARP testing, they seem to really be on the ball. A very recent standard which scores from fail up to 5 stars developed by some of the most influential doctors of this topic using real world data from hospitals and large scale studies. Also with trust issues such as refusing to take helmets from the manufacturers and instead buy from random stores in random locations. It seems to have everything I want from a testing standard.
thanks bot
Oh, and how do you know this? Please point me to the research you have looked up. You are misinformed about DOT. Look up research and comparison tests and you will find that Snell always ends up in last place when it comes to protection. The pecking order is DOT best, ECE a close second and Snell last - in every test: high speed, low speed, sharp, hemispherical or flat impact surface.
Sharp is good, but the helmets sold in Great Britain are not always the same as the ones available in the U.S.
As a motorcycle safety professional, I have not found a Snell-rated helmet I would feel comfortable with. Too hard, bad for the brain.
@@alex.m901 Fortunately I'm from Britain so the helmets tested absolutely are the ones I'm using. But that aside, the fact that SHARP refuses to test a helmet which doesn't pass ECE really makes your criticism faulty. If I'm buying a highly rated SHARP helmet there's a much better chance it's going to protect me compared to a DOT helmet which might pass, might scrape through.
But that becomes a whole lot worse when we consider the testing body. DOT relying on "just be honest guys" makes it a massive flaw. That simply does not fly for lifesaving equipment. When we go back to ECE vs DOT, would I bet my life on the fact they haven't tipped the scales in their favour or would I take a test which you suggest is very slightly worse? Adding SHARP testing beyond that obviously allows consumers to avoid helmets which barely meet the standard.
Snell of course is cancer. It's a large part of the reason why American helmets are often worse. We would all be safer if Snell were struck from the list entirely, even if nothing replaced it.
@@mykeprior3436nah, the comment is to good to be a bot
@@alex.m901 No way you seriously believe that, what a joke lol
I stand in amazement of the depth and quality of the research you put into this video. You deserve recognition from all motorcyclists. That said, I wish to make it clear that any helmet is better than no helmet, and even an unrated helmet might make the difference between serious head injury and no injury at all. The event that brought motorcycle helmets into existence was the 1935 death of T.E. Lawrence after he crashed his Brough motorcycle at low speed. The fact that he lingered for days before succumbing to his injury suggests that even the cheapest of the modern helmets now available could have saved his life. More recently, I heard many horror stories about the fragility of helmets of Chinese origin. Happily, a neighbor brought me an off-brand helmet that somebody had discarded, cheaply made and obviously inferior, and asked me if it was good for anything. After I assured her that it was not, she agreed to let me attack it to demonstrate its flimsy construction. I put the helmet on the ground, took a two-pound, steel hammer and blasted away with full swings. I was unable to break the shell. The lesson I learned there was, listen to the experts such as FortNine, buy the best helmet you can afford, but ANY helmet is better than no helmet, and may save your life--if you wear it.
While i do agree that any helmet is better than no helmet, building sub par products that do not meet the standards while charging the same amount or more than other helmets which pass the standard should be brought to justice by enforcing the said standards properly to ensure the consumers get the best for their money.
Holy shit this is good
I love the fact that you're trying to expose this certification!!! It needs to be changed, me, and the rest of the biking community thanks you bro! glad to see normal people care about other peoples safety, have a great day man
Noir style. Love it!
This guy's videos are so incredibly well thought-out and informative. Seems like a true labor of love for him to make these. Thank you.
Great cinematography, and content. The quality of this channel is unparalleled.
This video makes me feel a lot better about spending $485 on a snell-rated Shoei RF-1200.
My father worked at a dealer for ages, and his first bit of advice when I went to get my own was "Get an Arai or a Shoei, and make sure it's Snell-Rated."
1000$ (CAD) on an Arai Corsair V, and 850$ on a Bell Star Carbon...
We 'usually' get better build quality and better materials by forking over a few more $$$$.
You get what you pay for...
you never go wrong with a Shoei helmet.
And that comes from an AGV T2 owner.
You were smart to do so!
@@Ducati_Dude Not really. Look at Sportbike And Track Gear's videos. I'm sure you Duck guys know about them, right?
Matthew Mcconaughey reference 10/10
Yeah that was clever!
I almost died due to a DOT helmet on a BMX track. The chin bar exploded on impact, cutting my lips almost all the way off, breaking my nose, and I bit off pretty much my entire tongue. I almost bled out, and I had a concussion so bad, I couldn't remember where I was for the longest time. Ever since then, I buy a new SNELL helmet every 5 years. The last thing I want is to spend another week in a hospital from a relatively low speed crash.
Ok. Despite all those reviews and "best some equipment for something" videos that is really outstanding! These 'informative' kind of videos are important as well. But, as a art director I must say. Damn FortNine! You guys are really raising some bars with technical information alongside with awesome video production!! Congratulations on this effort to make such important content with incredible looks! Best regards from Brazil!
Wow that was a lot of detailed work making this video. Highest production values I have seen in this type of thing.
Thank you ryan for exposing this. Amazing production. Very entertaining to watch. And the icing on the cake: 4:50 powerdrift!
I don't understand the reference... explain?
This is so insane good that this leaves most, at least within motorcycle related material on youtube, 34 floors further down. Amazingly well done!
That must have taken a lot of research and time not to forget effort... you rock bro..
Should get an award for production quality. The shots. Scenes and theme took a pro to make look that good.
Seriously, you have no business making such good videos. These are criminally well made. Interesting, educational, and charming. Kudos to you and the others at FortNine.
For those of us, (like me,) who are newer to riding, what was that site/program/do-hickey you were using to look up the safety data on those helmets? I'd certainly like to see if they've got data for my lid and how it stacks up to the competition.
This one: icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/comply/ . Select equipment, FMVSS, 218, then find your lid (if they have it). Good hunting! ~RF9
July 2022- Perhaps an update? This was so well done and incisive, I'd like to believe something has changed.
Me too, SC. Just bought a new DOT, 4/23. Hoping standards improved! 🤔😳
When everything meets the standard the standard is useless! Very well said my northern neighbors. This is one of the primary reasons why I could care less about DOT certs and only buy helmets with a SNELL sticker.
You care more about DOT stickers? I think you mean couldn't care less. yeah, grammar police here but everyone says that and it's wrong.
MtnMoto Snell is bullshit too bc they use a needle instead of a wall for impacts, which only makes sense if you're getting shot at, not if you're crashing.
K. Flynn Okay then, which standard do you use? I don't know enough about ECE to use them as a deciding factor.
Moto Noob Well caught.
? which standard is best then
I think this self-certification thing is what shocked me most of working in the transportation industry. We were building school buses and class 8 trucks. Things that can crush a car to the size of a cement block. 100% self-certified. Nothing shady happened at that company, but I still could see where one could cheat.
Coming from the building electrical industry where everything must 3rd party certified by approved labs, I couldn't believe it.
You should have 5 million subscribers.
norcalvstarbobbers he really should, too bad we live in a world where unboxing kid’s toys is apparently more appreciated than this.......
@@TURBOTWINKIE Pretty sure most of those kid toy videos are watched by... drumroll... kids. Good luck getting them to care about things they're too young for, lol.
hes doing well for his target audience, its just a shame there isn't more people into bikes in the first place
@@aaronevans2580 you can say that about any hobby tho m8
I knew DOT was bad, I did not know it was this awful and downright dangerous. As a new rider I'd of gotten a DOT helmet, thank god I didn't in the end but I'm honestly scared for the people that did and trust that they're safe. Thanks for shining a light on this.
I haven't even finished this video but its already disgustingly good at 1 minute in. By god, FortNine you've done it again.
Bit late to this party but do want to compliment F9 for this excellent video ... and share an experience that enlightened me to the fact DOT rated helmets should be considered sub-par head protection.
When my daughter and I got into sanctioned kart racing, the rules specified SNELL rated helmets for all sanctioned events ... it didn't take long after that to find answers to the many questions spawned by that particular rule ... and since then, some 8 years ago now, it's been SNELL rated helmets for me and anyone I know and am able to influence.
This past year, while looking for a new lid, I was surprised to learn how many of the high end helmet manufactures have given up a SNELL rating to offer the in-helmet, slide down, sun-visor "feature" ... I'm going to assume SNELL did their due diligence and found these designs reduced the protection performance necessary to achieve the rating ... and in my mind, that's enough to go old-school and just wear sunglasses or a tinted visor.
Hope this adds some value to the original post ... don't expect many will ever see it but thought it worth putting up under this video heading.
Again, excellent job to F9 ... interesting, informative and entertaining ... thank you!
4:49 PowerDrift spotted... My home boys!
Phantom Rides yoyoyoyoyo
Oh yeaaaaah
apache 310 review
Oh yeah i spotted em too ❤
He is also in the comments(like 3 above yours)
Man, I miss these high production quality type videos. Not that the new stuff is bad, but this is something else
This is very helpful seeing as I was about 10 minutes of leaving my house to purchase a motorcycle helmet!!
In the nick of time, as they say. Happy shopping! ~RF9
FortNine thanks man!
I’m digging these stylized videos
Main thing is if you buy a big brand helmet you are likely getting the best protection not because they care for it, but because it makes it easier to sell across multiple countries with tougher safety ratings.
Your guy's videos deserve a platform better than youtube.
Guys, r u serious there at f9? This more Hollywood than TH-cam! is better than some mainstream movies! Way way better than any comparable channel on utube. superb! thanks!
About the content itself would you make some comparison with CE standards as well? Keep it coming!
I just picked up my first bike a couple weeks ago, saw this and some other videos of yours on helmets, immediately returned the dot helmet I got and went for a properly certified helmet instead. Thanks, some of us really don't knowb
This vid is up for an Oscar next year !
The production value on this video is incredible. I also learned a lot. Thank you.
Thank you fortnine! I was waiting for someone to cover this. I have always found the DOT certification not so confidence inspiring. Now I can share your video :) Great work btw. Loved the way it was filmed! 🤗
You made this video nearly impossible for me to pull it up, minimize the window, and just listen as I work. Super cool video lol. A+ ,Detective.
AWESOME video- please keep up the great work. Videos like this are more than interesting, but informative to motorcycle riders and those who have never been on one a day in their lives. Thank you.
Found a video on some random bike maintenance.
Stayed for these light-hearted, info-filled documentaries
4:50 @Powerdrift!
#pdarmy
Great video. Many are commenting that 'They' have these requirements, but 'They' don't enforce them, yet 'They' require us to wear them. The DOT does not require the use of helmets. Your states do that. The DOT just sets standards for the required stickers. In many states you are NOT required to wear a helmet. Some states require a DOT helmet. Some states say you must wear a helmet that is on their approved list while not even having a list. Contacting DOT to report non compliance is a waste of time. I know from experience. Still, videos like this are great for information for the user who care. Thanks.
I just really hope this video will be viewed by as many people as possible!
One of my favourite TH-camrs, seriously amazing production quality, your videos have been so helpful
So, what about SNELL versus ECE ratings? Because I've read that some helmets with SNELL certifications are tested AFTER release to the public and can slip through the cracks, while ECE rated helmets must be tested BEFORE they are put out on the market.
Snell not only tests helmets, but they also work alongside the companies to design helmets. They also do required spot checks before after and during manufacturing. If the company says no to snell then snell removes their license for the company to use their certification.
Either way ECE and snell rated are the best of the best for safety.
The amount of video work going into these is EPIC!
RyanF9 is dressed like he's about to tip us off on who the safety rating was on the grassy knoll.
*edit* Forgot to say, excellent video. Great job
DUDE!! you can teach whatever you want with this format. Very nice editing and acting skills dough.
This video was so f****** well done
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it
About 5-6 years ago I was riding around on a friends private property which he let anyone ride on and I was only about 8 and I saw a cracked wide open helmet hanging in a tree. I’m assuming someone put it there but just the thought that a helmet like that was supposed to protect your memories, thoughts, and everything you know shivered me.
Great content and I love the little allusions to things like McConaughey Lincoln commercials. Keep on having fun with it and don’t burn out. You are producing a lot of content so keep the quality high and I will gladly accept fewer videos if that is the Faustian bargain you have to make with TH-cam.
That was such a great piece and I was wondering why not many people are talking about it in comments.. But then the video is about a serious concern; and that deserves a serious discussion.. So be it..
So a brilliant piece, but yeah, maybe bad placement..
that shot from inside the helmet during a snowstorm was GENIUS, great video!
I usually try to find a modular that passes the ECE standard as well as DOT. Obviously this video took a lot of research, but can anyone comment on whether or not the ECE standard is safer? I just sort of assumed that the EU is more safety conscious so I'm getting a better helmet when I buy one that passed both. I buy modulars so I'll probably never buy a Snell bucket.
Don't forget to check the Sharp test when shopping for a new bucket!
ECE is much safer than DOT. 300g limit, widespread batch testing, more comprehensive impact test zones. Also their certification is 110 pages long versus DOT's 20. Not that length automatically means conscientiousness, but in this case it does! ~RF9
Also that batch testing means the helmet didn't leave to retailers before being tested.
Checking the SHARP ratings is definitely a good idea! I recently took several helmets off my list due to poor sharp performance. There are quite a few helmets that are sold in the USA that haven't been tested by sharp yet, especially dual sport/ADV helmets. Now I'm just going to save up for the new AGV carbon flip up and hope I don't break it prematurely like my last Schuberth.
I remember listening to an interview with the head of snell a while back saying that the only reason there aren’t snell modulars is that nobody is submitting them for testing. Whether that’s because they wouldn’t pass as well I don’t know.
(Edit) Here it is: overcast.fm/+BNCzO-NAk/12:46
Quality of this video is beyond most of todays TV,
Amazing job
This is why the UK doesnt have DOT, DOT only lids are illegal to be used on the roads here.
seansamurai1981 it's a shame that lids laws exists period.
Ill disagree Im afraid Touch of Grey. Decent lids have saved many lives and we know companies on a whole dont care about safety, this video proves it. The UK we use ECE, SNELL and SHARP. ECE is the main one to look for. For a closed face a gold BMS sticker on the back is a plus, it means its homologated for track use as well.
and harking back to the old days when helmets werent needed is a bit false, traffic was minimal and we werent riding bikes capable of 190mph.
Same in Norway...DOT are not legal here..
A very good documentory
The UK SHARP site is a great resource for getting test data on helmets, every helmet legal for use in the UK has to have its test results on that site.
I know that what you're telling is important too, but I was just mesmerised by the production quality. I've seen multi-million dollar movies that were not even close to this.
Alright alright alright!!!
Props for the Matthew McConaughey commercial! He's great!
Rolling the booger!
The production value of these videos are amazing! Not only an incredible motorcycle channel, but an incredible TH-cam channel in general!
People: "How could the government keep ufo's secret? They cant keep anything hidden!"
DOT certification: "Lul bruh"
This is best youtube channel I have seen till date... People who produce these videos think toooo much... Love you guys
production quality is superb as always!
Hey Fort, now you can add "noir" to your list of video achievements. This informative clip is not only a public service, it has a ton (100mph) of excellent stylistic features and clever references. Thanks for taking the time to expose this important information and thanks a second time for doing it with so much class and elan.
Fortnine and PowerDrift in the same video 👏👏👏👏
My fave! ~RF9
FortNine and you 2 are my favorites !
Power drift has come a long way and so have you guys!! Amazing work and a good initiative. #teamF9
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! We are grinning ear to ear!
We want to see sagar's reaction to this. :D
Only 2.5 min. Into the video and i have too say...im impressed. Great job on the production man. Tripled my interest.
6:17 so you roll little boogers à la Matthew Mcconaughey in a Lincoln. Well played, well played...
New canuck rider here and I was looking at my first helmet... was informed DOT was wha I needed and dont spend more for Snell. Thank you guys, I will spend a little more for a Snell rated helmet for me and my wife.
I can't wait for this movie to come out!
I really love your helmet contents, other channels I watched don't even able to explain the standard set by each certification.
It's true DOT is complete nonsense... But here it's better than Indian ISI or comparable is what we believe. And mine is also ECE rated. Topic is amazing and as always well covered!
ISI Helmets are completely shit. DOT is still better. Now I need to check out ECE. 🙂
sharp.dft.gov.uk for independent testing of helmets. The site is UK but adheres to EU regulations and requirements.
I would call bullshit on your claim
I went through ISI 4151(ISO), peak acceleration is 275g, there is a visor test standard IS 9973, there are total of eight sizes defined,
www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf
I am no impact test engineer, but the standard spec does seems better in at least these aspects.
This is how ignorant Indian youtubers are ! Get some knowledge mate !
This is good. Educational and very engaging. Wish all the boring staff was that presentable.
Hi, can you cover the ECE certification in the same way than this video?
these videoss have no right being so good. i really think this guy makes them from a sheer since of pride and the talent to flex on even the biggest motovloggers on youtube. unbelivable!
Powerdrift @ 4:50 my two favs in one vid
Praising SNELL 3 years ago. New video this week going on about the hazards of big bad SNELL.
They kinda toss credibility out the window making a video like that and not even acknowledging this video or amending on it. If Snell is so bad why would they keep this video up praising it? Keep in mind this was 3yrs old yet the Snell 2015 rating is referenced in both, so it’s not like there were any changes.
6:32 Matthew McConaughey? Is that you? Just reminds me of him 😂
Yep. Infinitely rolling a booger with great gusto in his Lincoln Mark VIII commercial.
dude.... this channel should have millions of subs! editing is superb! great info, interactive, fun... keep it up!
Question is if the ECE is any better
Yes, I think ECE is much better. 300g limit, widespread sample testing, more comprehensive impact areas. To give an example of the conscientiousness, the ECE criteria is 110 pages while the DOT is 20. ~RF9
FortNine or look at the Sharp ratings?
Yes
(For those that don't know.) SHARP is the UK's add on to the ECE ratings. So only helmets that have passed ECE, will get a SHARP Rating.The only problem with the SHARP, is translating the UK/Euro Models to the North American Models. Given name changes, and the fact UK sold helmets, may differ quite a bit from those of the Americas.
Given how much Europe regulates stuff like this, Im fairly certain it is. Plus there are many helmets that are Dot rated but not ECE.
These old type mystery videos are amazing, keep up the good work man, thanks alot!
Well, we've got to remember that many states don't even require you to wear helmet...
www.edgarsnyder.com/motorcycle-accidents/state-helmet-laws/
Ohio law states after a year of riding you don't have to wear a helmet.
"Just put a DOT tattoo on your head, you'll be fine" 😜
Badger0fDeath
Michigan is one
Those are the states doing the Lord's work lol. If they're dumb enough to ride without a helmet , well let's just feed them to Darwin eh.
Have you missed your true calling? Methinks NOT!!! Add this to the top your repertoire of pure class video productions! Well done...as always.
Sad story. Great video. Real crooks are the helmet manufacturers.... they know how to make safe helmets! So why are there still unsafe helmets, gentlemen! And any driver is responsible to spend the money on a safe helmet, not on a fancy, limited edition, special paintwork, etc helmet. Those stickers will not save your life. White, hi-viz yellow, green or orange, a.k.a. BEING SEEN, is better than crashing with the safest helmet. No fashion but a perfect fit (take your time to try more brands, put them on YOUR unique head). And a safe helmet will not stay safe forever. Replace in time. No DOT, ECE or whatever stamp of approval will replace common sense. Safety starts with using the grey matter inside your skull. Drive safely!
Thank you for the quality production! Ensuring I can get the most vivid image of my skull being smashed is of the utmost importance to me. Also, please remember to return my grandpa's fedora to his coffin when you are finished with it.
Put the helmet in concrete shoes it will sleep with the fishes
So nice to see a vlogger, if thats the word. Putting out something useful and informative . Not just sjowing you what the just learned in school and calling techniques there own. And pumping out as many videos as possible regardless of how foolish. Thank you!
I think a lot of riders have some notion about the pedigree of the Snell foundation. I think it’s cool to offer the “humble” beginnings of the DOT standard for the market’s consideration. ¡Thanks!
You are always trying something new with your videos. Its been hit or miss for me with most, but I am blown away by this video. Its amazing, keep up the good work!