tap crouch: rocket jump goes way higher
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 เม.ย. 2023
- Music: BananaSlug ( / user-426347780 )
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FAQ:
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![tf2's scrapped elaborate, 8 map soldier training course: official rocket jump map, etc [2023 leak]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3Cz7Id_pIQA/mqdefault.jpg)
![tf2's scrapped elaborate, 8 map soldier training course: official rocket jump map, etc [2023 leak]](/img/tr.png)
bonus bonus nerd info: knockback is capped at 1000 hu/s so ctapping as a demo to gain height doesn't do anything. detonator explodes in the air so getting closer to the floor doesn't do anything. for gaining height, scorch shot's knockback is so weak that ctapping, while giving you increased knockback, doesn't make up for the 20 units you lost in the first place, so it's pointless lol. (but yeah horizontally it can still help)
nerd+
Imagine if you used your technical smarts to write million-dollar software instead of dissecting an ancient broken game for us autistics
Thanks for letting me know. I won't even attempt ctapping with det anymore.
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Shounic please help me. How do you jump in the air as bonk merc?
If an AI ever gains sentience in TF2, I’m pretty sure they also wouldn’t know how Source Engine works
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This exploit could have been known before we knew what causes it. You dont need to know HOW things work ro know WHAT thry do.
@@O5MO do you like oranges
I dont like oranges
if the AI's gain sentience in TF2, they would wish they hadn't.
Holy shit… I’ve been accidentally ctapping instead of crouch jumping this entire time? No wonder I have issues climbing the RV in Mannhattan
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We should totally do a tour together.
damn that's impressive. the ctap timing is somewhat precise like wavedashing in smash brothers melee.
hamsteak
@@user-nm9yd4wq4s from experience in both games, it usually becomes muscle memory at one point and is easily executable after multiple hours of practice. so doing a ctap at first might seem like a feat, but it can become very trivial after a while
the visuals are such a big help to really understanding how it all works
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They're so good, literally next level editing skills
He is the best tf2 editor in the game
I have understood every video up to this point with the help of those visuals. Not this one. I had no fucking idea what he was talking about with player origins and shifts and stuff
The "crouching in midair brings your legs up, not your head down" thing is why crouch-jumping works in source and goldsource. iirc It actually used to ALWAYS bring your legs up instead, which is why old CS footage occasionally shows a dude suddenly snap his legs up and fall to a crouch. It's also why if you ever dare try to crouch while running downhill in those games, you turn into a pinball and just start bouncing around
I think it's an intended movement mechanic
It's part of the tutorial in half-life 1
@@dadmitri4259 Makes sense, I think there were parts in the game where you needed to get into a vent that was slightly off the ground.
That's why crouch-jumping feels so unique in valve games
yeah, quickly crouching and uncrouching in 1.6 teleports you up
Crouch jumping was accidentally broken in Portal 2
Medics: "Ah, advanced damage surfing"
In the fighting game series The King of Fighters, there's a jump system which can change the height and distance of a jump if you cancel a crouch beforehand. I've always associated ctaping as a similar mechanic.
Hyper Hops! Very cool.
You have jumps, super jumps, hop and hyper/super hops. Jumps give more vertical range and Judy Hopps give more horizontal range.
@@Kilesfactor Judy?
@@r0zemary with the big boody
Super jumps are in almost any fighting game, not just KoF.
I even remember seeing Hyper hops in other games like JoJo HftF.
@@Kilesfactor no way bro's autocorrect changed hyper hops to Judy Hopps 💀 we know what you been looking at
Soldier’s knees are made from American spirit
GOOD MORNING U ESS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
good to see you again stickmaster :)
Damn he still here
well he continually blows up his legs to get from point A to point second in a shorter amount of time, so makes sense that the guy who canonically ate a money sandwich would have knees made of American spirt, as only a fucker that rich would be able to have knees to begin with given his circumstances.
good to see you're still alive
Now that you're an expert on ducking, do why sometimes crouching while landing causes you to stay in the crouched position and vibrate.
visual bug as a result of a discrepancy between your true crouching state and what your client thinks should be your crouching state. Pressing crouch forces both to be crouch, thus fixing the problem.
I have this problem most often when trying to Demoman trimp. Or even when I'm not trying. I'll just get put inn a vibrating state that has no explosives to self correct other than dying.
Satan attempts to reclaim the mercenaries daily
when you ironman the landing the force of the impact sends shockwaves directly into the source engine which temporarily destabilizes physics before the kinetic energy is expended and regular physics continue
Shounic explained this as perfectly as can be reasonably expected and I still don't understand how this works. This really do be a Source Spaghetti moment.
The game doesn't have an answer for what you should be like while uncrouching in the air, and prevents you from jumping while uncrouching. If you skip directly from crouching into uncrouching, you can bypass this and jump in uncrouching. In this state, you take bonus knockback like crouching/jumping, but you're closer to the ground because your legs don't pull up like a normal air-crouch, so you're closer to the explosion.
if you dont understand watch it again
I love that he left in the huge inhale for the Gaben quote
A good ctap practice map is granary middle. If you can rocket jump from the long platform (catwalk?) on mid to the other with one try, then it was a succesful ctap
An even better way to practise is by doing some ctap oriented jump maps. There is a ctap practice room in the map jump_tapdance_fix3 that covers the distance ctaps and height ctaps pretty well (It also has ctap syncs if anyone wants to try them out). There are other maps based on ctaps as well but this practice room I think is a good place to practise ctaps for anyone that doesnt wanna get into rocket jumping too much.
I never though I would ever get to hear how this jump map breaking tech works. Everyone that has ever been asked that question always says "idk let go of crouch before jumping and fly more lol". As a Soldier main and massive science nerd, it has always bugged me that nobody actually knew what was going on.
Thank you shounic, I can die happy now.
3:46 Gaben is having an existential crisis.
Why does the end Gabe quote sound like the source code is holding him at gunpoint this time?
cuz it is
"say it like in our script or the Source 2 code gets it."
edit
I'd love a video on why particles from other players (like water splashes), corpses playing death animations like headshots and cosmetics dropped from random players dying sometimes randomly spawn on yourself or at random spots. I believe certain effects like weapon muzzle flashes and domination overhead icons staying in place after the player is long gone might be related to this too?
i used to think they only spawned at the origin of a map (usually 0, 0, 0 coords) since thats where anything without a proper placement gets put, but ive seen hats appear anywhere.
Yeet mcmeat is correct that one cause of this is models spawning at 0,0,0 if a location is unspecified. But visual bugs like the domination symbol and unusual partcles seem to float around in other places. Im curious, do you use linux (ie, do you use opengl/vulkan)?
Yeah shounic already explained it in another video
Someone who is a programmer (made the Binding of Isaac Afterbirth DLC and created the Iron Bomber) explained this to me like ten years ago so I forgot the details. But I IIRC the gist of it is that maps are rendered in chunks, and it's possible for players to be rendered slightly outside the chunk. If they then die or play an animation, your client doesn't get info on where that happened, so it's put in the chunk's, I guess, origin point?
I believe he's briefly mentioned the floating particles and stuff spawning at 0, 0, 0 in a previous video where Valve addressed the 0, 0, 0 issue and potentially the particle issue, but way after that update I still see particles linger around.
I haven't seen these things spawn at 0, 0, 0 anymore, but I've seen them spawn at my own position or even in other entities like engineer buildings. The chunk stuff does make some sense, as I've seen them spawn at seemingly random spots too like somewhere in front of me like a lame jumpscare.
i love how literally all of these could be answered with “source spaghetti” and nobody would question it
Gabe Spaget
Oh man, that's so cool. These videos give me the feeling you get from finally understanding a bug in your code without the frustration of having to find it. Keep it up.
at the beginning of the video, I made a guess: "oh, unducking while rocket jumping probably puts you further in the explosion."
I was correct, but not for the reasons I expected
Stellar video as usual
Ctaps can also be used to preform a difficult, niche and basically useless trickstab technique where you go for a jumpstab but you ctap so you can jump off the head of the person you stabbed, land on someone else's head and stab them as well. You can theoretically do an infinite ctap chain but except the ctap it's mostly luck if there will be a followup stab.
Ctapping off someone in a backstab is still useful to do, since backstabbing someone who you're standing on will cause your knife's "knockback" to pull you downward with them. It's why you take falling damage for backstabbing from above, sometimes.
Sure, you could just make the stab before you land, but this technique is good for if your timing is late and you wouldn't survive the fall damage.
Why does ctapping matter in that situation? Honest question. The video makes it seem like the main effect is to bring your origin point closer to the source of an explosive.
@@audraambrozy9443 normally you need to be crouched In order to stab someone while on their head, but by ctapping you can jump off their head and still be in range for a backstab
@@catcloudbox724 bro think he bunstie 😭
@@tf2exordium STOP Calling me a BUNSTIE WANNABE,,,
You can also use ctaps to backstab an enemy while ""jumping"" which you would normally never be able to do due to your jump behind high enough to not hit the stab. In theory you can even chain these stabs together. Really weird but cool looking technique to use.
Seriously hope that c-tapping never gets removed. Very integral to Soldier, and can be benefitted from by any class, especially Demo, Med and Spy.
FYI it doesn't work for according ops added comment
You can easily see ctap in action in any competitive match VOD nowadays, it's not that easy to do at first so some players use scripts to bypass it. Since it's basically a matter of timing, disabling sv_allow_wait_command gets rid of scripters. Also this is a "bug" I honestly hope they do not fix
Honestly I neither mind scripts nor disabling 'wait'
I think if its timing based, its better to learn it yourself, but resequencing the actions a specific button does is a fun part of tf2 customization.
Like, my mouse1 switches to weapon slot one; attacks. So its just one button to 'use' any given weapon, and theyre all on the mouse. I stole this idea from woolen
Ctapping has existed for over a decade.
@@lysergidedaydream5970 I mean literaly 95% of the Top 100 players (In Rocket Jumping) use C-Tap scripts .
Edit :Well could be 94% or 96% since it's data from atleast a few month
Edit 2:So someone could have been replaced in the Top 100
In CSGO, if I'm not mistaken, you actually go higher when tapping crouch just before jumping. It's a very small amount tho, but there are many spots where you have to do it to get up. I thought it would be the same in tf2.
next explain jumpbug please
I wonder if you could also look into the crouch, uncrouch code of old TF2 (or TF2 on X360 era) coding in comparison. Jumping while uncrouching put you in a state where you were able to clip your head into ceilings. I imagine this is because your hitbox must have been smaller due to the game thinking you're still in a crouched state? Then if you crouch while in a ceiling, you'll remain stuck in the ceiling (guessing the hitbox is back to normal size and thus now inside the ceiling collision?). This was a fun way to put teleporters in troll spots and also a way to unplayable spaces where you could like build above the skybox on 2fort.
I think this is a slightly different glitch.
Ghost crouch or something.
@@redstonewarrior0152 For sure, I wasn't saying these are the same. Just writing about that at some point, the uncrouching + jump coding was changed to address the issue with the bug in my first post.
Quantum crouch? Is a Source speedrun technique.
Omg this is why when tapping ctrl would make the screen lower for a frame it was so distracting..
Yeah. And this is the secret behind a funny exploit thats mostly known to highlander snipers, sometimes called the 'quantum crouch' or other silly things.
If you jump, then quickly tap crouch then hold crouch while still in the air, your animations wil desync. Your actual model will be crouched, but to people watching as you perform the jump, your world model appear in the neutral standing animation. You can spot it because they slowly slide around without doing the walking animation, and you wont hit them if you aim for what looks to you like their head. Instead you have to aim for their real head, which is around waist level?
Thank you for explaining to me how sweet having works on the engine side of things.
I watched your video on crouch jumping and realized that rocket jumping was worse but couldnt think as to why. Thanks for this insightful video.
I swear to GOD if the janitor patches this I'm gonna fucking SNAP
The ghosts of Carmack's 1996 Quake echoing through to Source games in 2023.
i've rocket jumped for over 7 years, i never knew this wtf
Time to fly now. Thanks for the glitch.
Ctapping makes jumping life a whole lot easier and im thankful for that
Great Video
Watching shounic's videos without any sound on is so funny to me idk why
Been doing this since TFC just because it works, never knew why, thanks meng!
Finally
I really needed this
Watching the bounding box here helps me visualize an explanation for some sketchy huntsman shots I've gotten
Sounds related to a goldsrc issue there was with unducking that caused small jumps which got fixed in source
I have spent hours learning to Ctap perfectly to get the highest Rocket jumps! its cool to see the tech behind the trick.
Really good video, like always.
Gabe explanation was a lot clearer
I tried to explain this to someone in-game when they asked me how I rocket jump so high, but they always got confused. lol
Been learned about ctap many years ago, but this is the first time I learned how it actually works!
Woah, 16 seconds ago, cool. Love it. Now go bake some lights
new skill platform/ceiling unlocked
how did I learn more about rocket jumping in the first minute of this video than in all tutorials I've watched combined
This is fascinating!
As a Vaccinator medic, I have to learn how to do this consistently, so I can surf while getting all the knockback while taking almost none of the damage! >:D
It feels like just yesterday when Shounic was explaining the two crouch jumps
I always did this and never knew(my pc doesn't recognize me pressing ctrl and space at the same time.)
Thanks I needed this
I have been playing TF2 for 15 years and I have never been able to c-tap. After watching this video, I was c-tapping within the hour. Thank you so much! 😸
basically soldier charges up his hop right before rocket jumping
As a jumper main, this video hits my nerd side so hard, that I basically nerdgasm just from learning the coding and logic side of this super useful technique that i love so much.
The visuals on this really help me. The same way sigsegv videos always put things right in my head.
ctap bad
Welcome to another episode of _"Source spaghetti"_
This is cool to see the mechanics behind this. I wonder if Valve ever ported the game completely to Source 2 or cleaned up the code, if it'd break lots of neat little things like c-taps.
In my 1300 hours of playtime I've never even heard of ctapping, and most of my hours are also in soldier.
It's neesh outside of jump maps you don't have to learn it unless you want to do fancy shit with rollouts
you can ctap with one rocket from the hightower middle spawn exit platform and make it to the mega on the hightower ! the firet location i realized how powerful ctapping is.
This is the kind of educational content I wish I had a decade ago
seeing the scout run against the wall just feels like he found random footing of a f2p trying to understand the game in the wild
Think you could make an addendum to this to explain why shallow water also greatly extends the height of explosive jumps? I've always wondered why that happens
Do you have any videos on trimping and why it occurs? I have always wondered what causes it and ramp surfs in general in tf2.
this is something I am covering soon
I think it's generally called the slope bug in Source Engine - IIRC it's basically because the game assumes that if the vertical part of your speed is even slightly positive (i.e. your speed is more upward than downward), you can't possibly be standing on the ground, even though that assumption only holds for flat or downward-sloping ground. So, if you hit an upward-sloped surface at high enough speed, the initial impact will redirect your velocity to have some upward component, and then the "is the player standing on the ground?" check gets skipped.
@@quantumdude836 you are a legend
@@quantumdude836 THANK YOU! ive been looking for an explanation as to why you can surf for so long
Huh, soo that's how ctapping happens, also this is the same as when you covered crouchjumping vs jumpcrouching
Can you also explain in a future video how trimping works?
Thanks for the video. I still don't understand it.
this feels like this is the definition of mildly confusing
advanced teabagging
man i love the editing style. reminds me of marblr
The rocket jump originally was a bug, that's common knowledge. But you're basically telling me that ctap is a bug on a bug?
Bug²
Can't wait for the Bug³ (oh wait)
TF2 Players: Wait... It's all bugs?
shounic: Always has been
Rocket Jump in TF2 is the 1st time where it was intentional ,but you said "originally" so you probably meant Quake
Mí mind while watching the video:
*Soldier Tea bagging intensifies*
Gaben is being shocked
Could you do a video covering why you sometimes can see a player's shadow through a wall?
I have a suggestion for an experiment. Its unrealistic but with if sniper how dmg fall off but in revers where the closer something is the less damage it does. This would prevent quicks scopes on flanking targets
crouch-jumping is super jump in HL1 so this really messes with my muscle memory
Impressive
Easiest way to do a ctap is to have a button that simultaneously uncrouches and jumps, and perhaps even shoots.
That way you don't have to sync a button release with a button press, which would normally be the most awkward part in my opinion.
In my experience, using a script to sync the shot isnt super helpful because the timing changes based on the situation. Here's the ctap script (doesnt include the shot) that I use:
alias -ctap ""; alias "+ctap" "+duck 1; -duck 1; +jump 1; -jump 1"; bind +ctap
this is not useful at all - let me explain. The script nowadays is not perfect. It used to be amazing back in the day when the command "stop" worked on basically every server. Now it doesn't and the commands are not enough for a perfect ctap. I tested it myself and results were very noticable and obvious as a jumper; I got less height with the script than with a perfect ctap. Learning the timing yourself is better, not only do you get a feel for more things when it comes to rocket jumping (because to learn ctap you need to spend some time on certain maps, for example jump academy 2) but you also get better results. Also, using the auto ctap script is basically... scripting. Ew.
@@spizC the ctap script does sacrifice height for consistency. Very few jumps require a tick perfect 691 hu ctap. I don't think I've seen one outside of the ja pillars (granted, I've only beaten t4 maps)
I'd also like to point out that the script is allowed on tempus. No reason to be so snobby about "scripting."
@@bangbangliu2146 Using the script is as stupid as syncr - just learn it. After a little bit of time you get the timing down. Scripting in a skill heavy game, ew
@@spizC I'll learn how to ctap manually if I ever run into the 0.1% of jumps that require one. Until then, I'll keep playing the way I want to. If that upsets you, nothing I can do about it. Sorry!
Video idea: what if everyone gun (or hit scan only) could deal headshot damage?
i never understood why crouching increases the heigh too
so that explains why jump maps sometimes work
This reminds me of when STAR_ uploaded a video of him playing demo, he charged at one point on a slight incline(or something, it's been years since I've seen it) and it clipped him into the floor until someone eventually killed him. I wonder if this plays into that?
hey shounic, if you haven't, please explain when getting random critical hits with the minigun why sometimes the correct electricity-ish sound effect is played and other times the weird double, overlapped normal minigun shooting sound effect is played
its called c-tapping and its one of the more difficult tricks to mastering rocket jumping
yes i'm aware
3:36 Huh, maybe that's why I fail to jump up ledges sometimes. 😅
I finally learned how to rocket jump, nobody even explains it properly.
Oh wow
I have literally never known that ctapping even exist
it's over enemy team, i have the high ground!
Go up faster, simple as.
Source spagetti monster.
Source engine crouching is always a mess, it seems. Like Portal 2's flying glitch because of crouching/uncrouching in a funnel.
Or left 4 dead 2 letting you bunnyhop as a fucking tank if you do crouching bhops
Let’s hope Valve doesn’t remove this Bu- Feature!
The c tap has finally been exposed
Pog
Can you make a video about how speedshots work? Like why do you get so much speed and why are you not considered rocket jumping most of the time for market gardens?
The simple answer: when you hit a speedshot, you are closer to the explosion than almost any other method, ctap included.
Long answer: this is because in a speedshot, you Land. This does a few things: your vertical velocity is zero, your distance from the ground is zero, and your horizontal velocity is not zero (there is a perceptible interval wherein you decelerate). I suspect, because of how effective speedshots are, that the moment you Land, your horizontal velocity is very near to what it was beforehand, and it just rapidly decreases. This in part explains why the timing window for speedshotting is so small: you essentially need to land exactly as the rocket lands for maximum efficiency. The sooner you land the more speed you lose, up to all of it, before the rocket lands. And if you don't land at all, because the rocket lands before you, congrats. You've done a speed pogo. A speed pogo is not as precise as a speedshot. Because you don't Land, your distance from the ground, and therefore the explosion, is nonzero. It is much easier to retain your velocity, and you can be a lot more flexible with pogos. A speed pogo is one made *very close* to the ground, such that they can look very similar to a speedshot. But if you retain the 'jumping' state, it was probably a speed pogo. However, it may be possible that a truly perfectly synced speedshot would, like a bhop, fail to remove the jumping state. But I'm unsure. Also complicating things are how tf2 handles bhops. I'm not sure how much horizontal velocity you actually retain a T minus 0, and the change to how bhops work in tf2, which is affects even 'perfect' inputs, makes me think that its substantially less than you had prior to landing, but the efficiency of being a distance of 0 away from the explosion along with the velocity which is retained is enough to make perfect speedshots faster than any pogo.
Oh, and because you Land, you will stop hearing the rocket jumper woosh as soon as you hit the speedshot,and market gardens wont crit. if you think it was a speedshot, but you still crit someone/hear the whoosh, im almost certain that means it had to have simply been a really good speed pogo
i don't care if source is spaghetti i still love it
Ctapping has been around so long that its practically a feature at this point. I dont jump like at all anymore but I can only imagine how pissed off jump players will be if you get this patched, it would break many maps
can you explain why you crouch jump higher if you crouch before jumping rather than after
on a similar note, why do you jump slightly higher in source engine when you press crouch and jump at the same time as opposed to pressing jump then crouch?