13:22 I am so honored to have one of my levels featured in this video. Thank you, Demeech for playing it, and hope you enjoyed it. I do wish this game still had a vast player base. Of course you’ll always have people like Panga or DGR Dave who will always play this game, but it becomes harder to send levels for streamers on twitch and TH-cam to play, and it’s very sad because the possibilities with this game are infinite. Although I will say I personally think the super worlds need to be more fleshed out.
@@Demeech Irrelevant people still stream super mario maker 2. No one streams super mario maker 1 anymore. Just cause you moved on from it doesnt mean other people have.And SUper Mario Maker 2 is way better then Super Mario Maker 1.
To this day we still don't know why they said "Extra Game Styles" (with an S), when there was only ONE extra game style (that being Mario 3D World)... Such a tease
it would have made more sense if they called it "experimental style" or something cause switching to 3D world changes the entire level so i guess that trademark would fit more.
ceave gaming made a good episode on why super mario 1 felt more enjoyable then 2. to boil down is discussion, its that the ui is counter intuitive and inconvenient, with poor priorities which made level building a chore rather than fun.
The biggest issue was the searchability and lack of the amiibo skins. There needed to be a more community based search for levels. Also the amiibo skins added so much to the theming, if licensing was an issue just add in the Nintendo ones. Also 3D World being isolated just limited the game feeling more new.
The lack of amiibo skins was a deal killer for me. Even if licensing issues were a thing, that should just be a harmless little pinch in the arm to Nintendo, the wealthiest company in Japan. With all the amiibo that came out after the original Super Mario Maker, the concept could've easily been expanded upon, instead of our amiibo shelves gathering dust as a result of the concept's disappearance.
Don't get me wrong, the amiibo skins were neat, but they really didn't add much, being exclusive to SMB and not having any effect other than cosmetic. They were cool for the occasional themed level, but they just aren't that important imo.
I feel like the reason this game wasn't as popular as the first was more due to how Nintendo treated the people who were trying to experiment with the game rather than the general audiences not liking it. I remember Ceave Gaming talking about how a lot of fun glitches that looked like harmless features were patched just because they didn't intend to include them or how if your level played around with those glitches, they often wouldn't allow you to upload it. It's also due to the fact that in Mario Maker 1, a lot of crazy things were possible which weren't in the sequel. Super Mario Maker 1 lived on because of those who pushed the limits of the game and wanted to prove what was possible and what wasn't. Levels that are impossible if you play an earlier version or if you die after the checkpoint, glitches that allow you to multiply enemies more than intended, levels that were so hard that they took 7 YEARS to beat and were never uploaded thanks to Nintendo's desire of shutting down the ability to upload courses because of its sequel. That's what I think made the first Mario Maker the more relevant game! It's kinda like Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl in a way. Objectively, Brawl is the better game. It's got the better roster, better story mode and tons of new content and yet, it suffered competitively. And yes, Smash 4 and Ultimate had better competitive scenes, but Melee is still being played competitively the most because of all the techniques and the players who pushed the game to its limits. Recently, aMSa rised in the community as a Yoshi main and even proved that, despite his flaws, his character is legitmately viable, like how HungryBox did with Jigglypuff (not sure if he has won a major yet tho, I didn't keep up with competitive Melee).
Everytime I hear Mario Maker 2, I just feel sad, I was hyped for the game, I saw the direct, I bought the cartridge. But I always enjoy what others have to say about the game. The game isn't "ruined" in a sense as it's unplayable for me, but it just feels like it was wasted. There were 3 updates, that's it, with not much stuff in between. The last update was 2 years ago, and seeing all that potential that just went down the drain... I find it odd too, like Smash Ultimate had loads of updates, that game was given love and care while SMM2 feels like it's lacking that PUSH to update the game and be hyped for new things in the game. In short, the thing that ruins the game is NOT a new extra theme, but just the lack of support. Additionally if Nintendo makes a Mario Maker 3, you bet they'll close down the SMM2 servers, specifically not letting you upload levels.
Honestly, if Nintendo really is gonna eventually close down online servers for various video games or consoles, then they should honestly just stick to solo or non-online multi-player video games. Hell, maybe even RPGs- ...Oh wait, that's Square Enix' job...
10:44 Dude, thanks a lot for featuring my rendition of the level from the Mario 3 Genesis bootleg. I really appreciate it! :'D It makes me overjoyed, to say the least but I'm more than glad that you enjoyed it that much.
The biggest mistake was the 3DWorld theme being a separate thing. Why the actual hell is the fire bro exclusive to that theme when it’s been in nearly all the other represented games and would be the absolute easiest to add to those he hasn’t been in, just pallet swap the hammer bro and give him a fireball which is already present as Mario‘s and Piranha Plants main projectile
It's even more asinine that 3DWorld theme doesn't allow enemy stacking, which is like one of that game's major gimmicks that wasn't a thing in the other games whose themes you can stack in. The things that are and aren't possible feel completely arbitrary.
I think the worst thing about Maker 2 is the lack of level bookmark. With SMM1, I used to find levels during the week, bookmark them and then, play them during the week-end. They were all ready in the game. With SMM2, sure, I can note the level codes of the levels I want to play but having to write down every single code of every single level I want to play is just painful and way too time consuming (especially if you miss type)! Sadly though, the sheer existence of SMM2 also overshadows other amazing creative games like Levelhead or Super Dungeon Maker which actually have level bookmarks!
Absolutely agreed. SMM1 had free online. For the sequel, you need to pay a subscription fee to access it. This is probably the #1 reason why the game didn't become huge.
Thank you so much for featuring my level! I really hope you enjoyed it. 7:14 Unfortunately, Mario Maker is a type of game that requires a lot of patience when building levels, and lately I haven't had the motivation to finish the super world.
@@johnpolishimpossible2say191yes there was two updates 6 months apart and that was it. what they should have done was keep updating the game every two months and gave the game support for at least 2-3 years to keep the player base alive.
No it wouldn’t lol. It would’ve been neat and made some people happy but they’d need like a super Mario odyssey theme or something to make like millions of people hyped to go buy it now
@@IceBlueLugia i mean it would've helped keep the community there that loves Mario maker 2. like if in one update they bring back the amibo mushroom and all the costumes aside from original link. that would make the community happy as well as an music maker for separate levels and completely fix the 3d world style. but you are right as well, if Nintendo added an Mario odyssey and Yoshi island as new game styles in a update that would be huge and help Mario maker more.
Some time after this game's release, Nintendo have started putting online play behind a paywall, making it strictly worse than Super Mario Maker 1. It's messed up enough that Nintendo is charging us to use our own online connections that we're already paying for, but it's even worse that you have to pay for online after having already paid full price for an essentially online-only game.
Yeah very scummy practice, just because Sony and Microsoft have it doesn't mean nintendo has to rip us off, especially since their games cost so much and never go on sale, But hey! Atleast it isn't fucking ps plus that costs 3 times as much for year and only thing that it has that online doesn't are 2 monthly games (that mostly suck, seriously i checked all ps plus offerings for last 2 years, i only got out of it 2 games, one of which went f2p later.)
The best aspect of Wonder is the expressive animation imo. The fact that they finally animated Mario entering a pipe instead of just sliding him up is huge
Something that few people realize is the lack of Miiverse. Miiverse was amazing for a game like Super Mario Maker, a place where people could share the levels they made or comment on other levels. It made everything feel so much more social.
They stopped supporting it because it didn't sell. You can argue that more support would have sold more units, but that's not a guarantee. Nintendo didn't see enough interest in the title, and you can't just keep throwing good money after bad.
Ngl Super Mario Maker 2 is a way better sequel than Super Mario Maker 1 but the thing 1 did better than 2 is keep me hooked idk how many years I played that game without getting bored the level editor was so fun, playing with the letters on the title screen was fun, the minigames, collecting amiibo costumes was fun (which is literally the only reason I bought amiibo was bc of the cool skins). But after like a year and a half of playing Super Mario Maker 2 I abandoned it which is the issue with the game like Super Mario Maker was so exciting bc nobody has ever seen anything like it. I played that game for over 3 years every day because I loved it and somehow the 3DS port kept me hooked longer than 2 did aswell ik people hate the 3DS port but I have a soft spot for it because it was the first version I ever played plus it was Mario Maker on the go I loved creating my own levels to play and I also loved the story mode and trying to get the medals me and my dad spent a lot of time together playing that game. I remember also playing the wii u version on road trips and vacations because it was so much fun. Super Mario Maker 2 I was so hyped for and couldn't wait to play it but after the first year it slowly started to fade away and I barely revisit it anymore. So yes SMM2 is the better game but SMM1 kept people hooked for a very long time. People still play it to this day which is pretty crazy. I am still sad to this day that my favorite wii u game of all time is completely dead, but all good things must come to an end.
It really is a shame because mario maker 1 and 2 could have been something incredible but sadly they just lack so much content to make decent levels . So many requested themes never showed up either it just feels like a missed opportunity
Honestly, many of the issues you mentioned were a factor, but I think Ceave Gaming had a good point when he talked about a lot of the technical level from Maker 1 not being possible in Maker 2. You simply can't create a good calculator in Maker 2 like you can make one in Maker 1, etc. These technical levels were part of the joy of watching people play Maker 1 and it's a shame they can't really be remade in Maker 2, when many of these former viewers can finally experience the levels themselves.
This game failed me on a simple basic level. I was an amiibo collector when it came out, however not owning a Wii U meant I never got to try out the amiibo costumes in Mario Maker. Them removing the costumes for no reason in the sequel was a big blow to my overall enjoyment.
Where's the critique for SMB3's lack of new music for many themes? I get the original SMB3 had the same track for many areas, but seeing no new desert or forest music disappointed me anyway. The fact the game's MAIN PLAYING MODE, Course World, is stuck behind a paywall is IMO the main reason it didn't take off. Like, people didn't have to pay extra every year to keep Super Mario Maker 1 alive. It stayed alive because it was easy to understand and all you had to do was make, share online, look for levels, and play. In Super Mario Maker 2, making is a little more difficult, and you can't share online, or even look for and play user created levels without having to pay extra for the online service. And IMO, the Story Mode wasn't enough. If anything really needed to be updated, it was the amount of content you could play without having to go online. There's also the fact that Super Worlds, my most requested feature for the original, was not included in the game when it launched. First impressions make a big difference, so the ability to create world maps to put your levels on would've made a much bigger difference had the game launched with it, whether you consider the game finished or not. As someone who really couldn't afford to keep online going every month, I still remember the disappointment when I found out I couldn't even do the bare minimum of SHARING my levels unless I sold my soul to Nintendo. I was willing to accept not being able to play levels, but not being able to share? What was the point then?
You nailed on every criticism of SMM2 on the long road. And let me say it, if Nintendo gave SMM 2 10~20% of the support they gave to Super Smash Bros Ultimate, the game would be infinitely better, because, what we got? Link, SMB 2 Power-up's, Super Worlds and Ninji Speedruns. And on a irony case, it's kinda the same philosophy Nintendo gave to their sports games on Switch, but in reverse. A game released complete, but with almost no post content.
I personally played the heck out of the first game, and when I got my Switch, my second game was Super Mario Maker 2. So it's important to my switch life. But for me, it was pretty obnoxious to make levels, I found it really boring and weird, unlike the first game, where it would be great (specially with the gamepad).
I think one of the two big factors impacting how much attention Mario Maker 2 got is that the first one did good enough that people got their fill on the concept of custom mario stages, and experienced all the ups and downs that you'd get from that. All the features in SMM2 appealed more to people that were big fans of the game, but not enough to push it to new heights than what was seen in 1. Trying to point at all the features that were added and those that were cut, are aspects that matter more to people that were going to buy and play it heavily regardless of how the game turned out, while the majority of the casual audience "oh, I'd rather have a normal 2D Mario again, I'm good." Cause like, regardless of how many tools are added, and how many talented people you have contributing to the game, you're always going to deal with 4-9 stinkers before getting to a level that's executing it's idea well, and that's not assuming the idea it's going for is even one you enjoy. The second factor is that SMM2 came out on a good system. The Switch has more than a handful of games you could enjoy playing being released each year. I think SMM1 did about the most you could expect with the Wii U without getting into gimmicky territory, and with how few decent titles it got, you could always go back to that title because, well, infinite levels. As someone who got both games, I just don't really see myself returning to 2. I barely even hear my friends talk about it beyond the year it came out. I'll also say the lack of fun custom sprite swaps to unlock over time made it less fun to replay. It's a small, dumb goal, but it's at least something to look forward to after the fiftieth Hold Right To Win stage
Another great video, as always. I wish I watched it much, much earlier. Nice to see a retrospective that isn’t exactly all for the pros or the cons. Of course, many thanks for bothering to feature my level at 2:43 , it means a lot. Hoping to see many more high quality retrospectives in the future.
Each player getting their own screen in a 2D co-op game is a godsend that Sonic Advance 3 and Super Mario Maker 2 features It’s a shame you don’t see that often in other titles
I am so sad that SMM2 is in decline. I remember getting it on launch day, going as far as pre-ordering it and I loved it and still do. So it is a real shame to me.
The game itself is good, but the mandatory online subscription to even play the main part of a game that already costs 60 bucks just killed it from the get-go, at least for me.
A creative community will be formed regardless of Nintendo's input. The main issue of SMM2 is locking the online sharing behind a paywall. Not everyone will be making new levels, they will play the offline portion and download user made levels. If they can't download anything because they don't have NSO, they lose interest. If anyone wanting to share levels with the world don't have NSO, they lose interest. Also, it is a Switch exclusive game. Despite being a popular console, these kinds of games are most played with mouse on PC.
ngl, I thought there would be a fury segment. But I guess the lack thereof reflects your own feelings towards the game: disappointed, but not irritated. I'm guessing none of the flaws you pointed out during the video completely ruin their corresponding features, either, just hold them back in some capacity. An outstanding game that nonetheless still needed more dev love
I'm surprised you didn't mention how the stone block and toad escorts in story mode aren't available in the level editor, and how Fire Bros are exclusive to 3D World for some reason.
I bought MM1 day one and loved it-played it until 2019. I bought MM2 and I just couldn’t get used to the level designer UI-it felt so clunky to use, difficult to keep track of where everything was, and much less intuitive than the original’s menus. Even if it was designed for a controller, I think they did a very poor job at it, which is mostly why I stopped playing after only a couple months. I do still very much enjoy watching folks play the game though, but I just don’t enjoy playing it myself anymore, making my own levels or playing others’.
@@dreamsdeep1076 Ah not so fast you have to think about the super switch in mind but if you're talking about the current one remember extra game styles I don't think that's a typo anymore (hint hint😉)
I prefer 2 by far, spent over 4k hours in the game. It has so much more, and I can get around to using it. 2 has much greater potential but it was hindered by 1 being novelty.
Fun fact, before the Link powerup was introduced I predicted that it was gonna be a Zelda game style - fans were wanting a Zelda maker, so that could've been Nintendo's way of "kinda" giving it to us - and I felt so cool for predicting Zelda content being added to the game, albeit it's not exactly what I thought they'd do with it.
A very important and necessary change that many people overlook is to get rid of Mario Maker 2’s unnecessary limitations, which I believe is one of the contributing reasons why it wasn’t as successful or long lasting as we’d hoped. With not much depth in the creation tools, people will often feel restricted and “handicapped” in a sense, as they frequently stumble upon roadblocks and realize what they envisioned for a project is completely impossible to achieve. This results in creators growing tired of the game as it starts to feel stale and one dimensional. Not only this, but the level of variation greatly shrinks in uploaded stages because of the shallow tools, resulting in a predictable and monotonous pool of levels that repels eventual returning players much quicker. There simply isn’t enough power in the tools for enough depth and variety in the visual, structural and mechanical aspects of levels. Level Liquids You cannot mix liquids with level themes however you want. That’s a huge amount of potential thematic variation thrown out of the window, for no apparent reason. Allowing experimentation with such a feature would open up many possibilities such as water castles, lava caves, poisonous deserts, no water forests, submerged ghost houses, etc. Night Themes All the night backgrounds look exactly the same except for the airship, failing to fulfill the main purpose of level themes; to give aesthetic variation. Not only are the backgrounds lacking, but so is the music with tinny music box covers of the original tracks. This generally makes the night themes unattractive to use, and doubles down, together with their overall similarity, on being a pointless addition that again fails at what it was supposed to achieve; thematic variation. The night themes also have their unique level effect like sandstorms, darkness, low gravity, floating enemies, etc, but again restricts any kind of experimentation by combining effects with different level themes. This results in even less visual variety alongside the backgrounds and music, which resultantly created a disaster of a feature that has no place in a level creation tool. The proper implementation would simply be to give the night themes proper backgrounds and music, remove their fixed effects so they exist solely to add aesthetic variation, and let the player freely choose an effect for each subarea, no matter what level themes they’ve chosen. Alongside the ability to freely choose liquids, imagine the possibilities of combinations! Super Mario 3D World 3D world was implemented in the worst possible way which resulted in a divide in the level editor since you cannot switch between 3D world and the other styles without removing everything in your level. 3D world has many missing features from the other styles such as tracks, freely placeable semisolids, several gizmos, night themes, poison, stackable enemies, and much more. As a result of the divide, the other styles also weirdly enough don’t have features that 3D world has exclusively. The main ones are the Firebros and Porkupuffers, and there’s no apparent reason as to why they’re a 3D world exclusive. Ultimately, 3D world only divides the game and feels overly restrictive compared to the other styles. Other Limitations There are other limitations that could potentially create much more structural and mechanical variations if it weren’t for their existence. The subareas are bizarrely exactly the same size as in the previous game, and you’re still limited to only 2 areas in total, which heavily limits the scope of levels. An infinite timer is also absent, which was a frequently requested feature that simply was overlooked by Nintendo. A lot of the course parts feel weirdly rudimentary like the skewer, firebar, fire burner and twister, with not much customization of how they work. You cannot extend skewers and adjust their speed, fire bars are limited to one arm, fire burners cannot be extended or set to be constant, and twisters cannot be placed in pipes, etc. There’s still no way to draw background tiles individually to create more organic looking levels, and as a result of this potential feature’s absence, levels look artificial and tacky. The lack of new enemies didn’t help with the game’s short lived life either, as there were only 3 new ones at release, and the updates only helped with the issue marginally. There were also very few new gizmos. Custom scroll cannot be used in subareas for no apparent reason, further restricting possibilities. The main area cannot be vertical, meaning vertical areas can only be accessed with pipes, which again creates predictability and removes a layer of structural variety. You’re only allowed 4 doors per subarea which heavily limits the scope of levels, the camera is difficult to control, and the scroll stop feature works in fewer situations than what’s initially anticipated, which further limits the possibilities and variation in levels. Etc, etc, etc. Course World The course maker isn’t the only aspect of Mario Maker 2 that suffers from unnecessary limitations. The course world is also one of the determining factors for why Mario Maker 2 struggled to stay alive longer. The multiplayer was catastrophic at launch, being a laggy, unplayable mess for months on end, which I strongly believe turned a large number of people away from playing the game. Furthermore, mario maker 2 introduced a new game mode, endless mode, which challenges the player to progress as far as possible without dying by playing a random stream of user-created levels. The problem with Endless is that there’s no end goal, meaning its incentive to play is weaker than with Mario Maker 1’s 100 Mario challenge, which the game for some reason lacks. Endless mode is perfectly fine as it is, but it should not have replaced the 100 Mario challenge, but complimented it. Moving on to the levels tab, it also suffers from a jarring issue: it’s way too difficult to find actually good levels. Most levels in the hot courses and popular tab are either “Refreshing levels” where you just look at flashy visuals, speedrun levels where you run and hit the same on/off blocks and question mark blocks, and other overdone levels. They all play out the same and are extremely repetitive and monotonous, resulting in an unattractive and predictable selection of levels, which I strongly believe has repelled a lot of the user base. The search feature is also lackluster as there’s no way to search specific level names since all we have are a few vague tags, which only worsens the problem. Good course worlds are even more difficult to find as their search tools are even more limited, where your only option is to refresh a small page of random course worlds, without having to resort to entering a user ID only accessible from third-party sources. These caveats collectively make the course world overly unattractive and tedious to use, which is again a strong contributor to the game’s underwhelming performance. You get the point. Super Mario Maker 2 is sadly held back by its countless unnecessary limitations, which honestly is Nintendo’s own fault. They decided to be "control freaks", but as a return shipped a game that did less well than expected. I sincerely hope they learn from their mistakes and let us experiment more in Mario Maker 3, just imagine the possibilities.
What killed it for me is how the online was handled. You want to make me pay to upload and play levels online? That's stupid but go ahead. However, give me a stable multiplayer because it was something else man...
Whats worse is mario party superstars did incredibly well and fans loved it. Yet it didn't get ANY updates or post launch content at all.. thats a worse thing than what happend to maker 2. Nintendos backwards thinking and nonsense decisions p*ss me off..🙄
What is you guys best music for each theme SMB -Desert-Day and night -Underground-Day -Ghost house-Night -Airship-Day -Castle-Day SMB3 Sky-Day and night Ghost house-Day SMW Ground-Day and Night Ghost house-Night Snow-Day and night Castle-Day SMBU Ground-Day and Night Underground-Day Sky-Day and Night Ghost house-Day Desert-Day Airship-Day Snow-Day Castle-Day
This is one of my shorter reviews mostly cause I rather to keep stuff short, yes I do think super mario maker 2 is overall an improvment over super mario maker 1 in most cases, a new style, more enemies and stuff to mess around with, bosses, and power ups even though I wish amiibo mushrooms would show up, the story mode is solid and I say is an intresting one to say the least my main issue with SMM2 is how laggy the online co op like I so some in YT a lot back then, but for more stuff is overall feel like missed potential the game had a lot of stuff around and while it can be the worst mario game in the worng hands it can be the best but it seems like nintendo stop support the game I feel is mostly due to 2020 being 2020 but also for maybe a poor corporate decision the game get the rank of mid A tier still worthwhile to play but still kinda wish it would get more updates or a sequel would have come to give what have could be in 2 but is more than likley be on the next console more than anything *sigh* But to end on a high note I say you defenitley show ambition and care to your retrospect gator boi keep it up I am sure look for what be next
One of the things I've heard is that SMM2 did not meet Nintendo's sales expectations. Despite the Switch doing super hot, not a lot of people seemed to attach themselves to SMM2 the way they did SMM1. It could be for the reasons you stated in the video, some things 1 had that 2 got rid of or did worse. Could be the lack of a bookmarking site that made loading up levels you found on the internet a simple task. Somehow I think Nintendo got the idea that adding new content and updates were predicated on the game doing well sales-wise, within Nintendo's predictions. Really, those updates are probably what could've drove the numbers Ninty was chasing. But then again, I'm just bitter about the lack of a Hammer Suit in SMB3. And Tanooki Suit. And P-Wings, for that matter. God dammit, there was just so many more things SMM2 could've had and Nintendo killed that dream early.
Honestly the only reason I stopped playing was because I didn't feel like it was worth paying for nintendo switch online and I really wished there were additional game styles. New Super mario bros Ds or Mario Land 2 would've been my picks.
Mario Maker 2 is definitely massive a step up from the original especially in terms of the level-building aspect, but its missed potential just can't be ignored. Also, you caught me offguard at 23:33.
I don't know how to describe Mario Maker 1 versus 2 other than that 2 just feels like a regular game whereas 1 is very weird and it's that lack of weirdness that makes me not like Maker 2 as much. The random mushroom being gone make sense because they would have to somehow acquire all the licenses for all the weird suits again but other than that All the weird things that are missing don't need to be missing. Also some people say the original wiremaker had a better level editor and in some ways yes in some ways no but there should be a more touchscreen optimized interface that you can select when using it in handheld mode.
You can play levels online in local multiplayer, just not in endless challenge or vs mode. I used to do it a lot because my friends didn't wanna play mario kart or mario party (for some reason)
Super mario maker wii u main theme of amiibo costumes is the main reason why I purchased it. I loved making run through levels with and especially splatoon theme levels. The sequal removed that and sure improved the title in many different ways but the main reason on why I loved mario maker was the costume level themes and I am more a level builder then level player, the costumes is a heavy motivated narrative for me to make levels. The online co op / online play with other players was awful at launch and it was a slide show whenever I played with viewers and after two streams I was done with the title. The story mode is fun but heavily bland / boring in my opinion and I did not want to continue it, as I stopped playing it around fifty or sixty percent completed castle ranking. It was not enjoyable for me. Wii U Mario Maker is heavily superior in my opinion.
Super Mario Maker 2's final update added so much I wanted, especially Super Worlds and the Koopalings. But the game definitely has some missed potential like the lack of diagonal pipes and placeable water/lava/poison tiles. I also think that despite being more fun to play than the original due to so many new features, the first Super Mario Maker was more fun to make it due to how intuitive it felt to use the Wii U Gamepad.
it just sucks cause of the fact they stopped updating for no reason at all, i just hope mario maker 3 becomes better (if it ever comes out) and maybe JUST maybe, we get an actual smb2 style. I mean cmon Nintendo i love you guys but SMB2 not having a lot stuff traditional mario games had isn't an excuse for not having an smb2 style, just make new assets damn it. Also the online levels need some kind of moderation they all suck and are toooo difficult and unfun
*Luigi nerd activated* also, why tf are the luigi sprites in smb1 and 3 just pallette swaps, they were like that in the original but so was with smw, so why couldn't they just make better sprites, they have no excuse for it since they made some for toadette and toad
Agreed And as for 4P races you can thank crowd bais for that one I guess speed runner just don't want to slow down and think for a split second before advancing so from one player to another upvote all the fun ones you can find in online multiplayer and just downvote all the 4P VS courses they've made by the dozens you'll thank me for it later.
The stage creator is way worse than on the wii u, its clunky, using a controller is horrible and using the switch in handheld does not work well for creation, the wii u version was a 10/10, this is a 4/10. Oh and the story mode is awful and having 3D world be completely separate is laughable.
Here what I would have changed/added. I would make SMB2 a full game style, though I'm still glad we got the powerup at least. I want a Samus Suit power up, and for it, Link, and SMB2 you should be able to start the level with them and not lose them when hit. Same screen multiplayer is difficult to survive in since players bump eachother out of the way instead of overlaping. I would allow player overlap especially if players share a screen. With world maker mode the levels needed multiple goal posts so the world map would unlock the route you took, and leave the other locked. For nonlinear routes you need more than 5 levels per world allowed. Without this world maker does not really affect gameplay in any meaningful way. I agree on name searching levels, but also wish there were better level tags such as: multiroute/non-linear, linear, SMB2, Cape Mario, coin collect mission, optional red coins, key level, kaiso, ect. Finally allowing as many checkpoints as you want in a level. There's some other things, but these seem like they should have been there.
I agree with most of your points However i disagree with your apparent need for a music creator. Because at that point it strays away from being mario. When you remove the identity of the game it just becomes another game builder garage. And we all know how well THAT did
IMO, the biggest missteps with SMM2 were a) the lack of a website where you could bookmark and link to levels, and b) they removed the feature where you could look at other people's levels in the editor. The former made it so much more convenient to play levels you see in a video, while the latter was such a cool way to see how other levels worked. The latter is especially disappointing given that SMM2 is so much more contraption-oriented.
The angry sun on the new sup style is also funny because it looks like it's the type of angry that's so angry that it has had enough and doesn't have the time to make an angry face, it's just done with life and wants to focus on destroying the life it has supported for millions of years.
24:04 Also you can play online levels but even so, local multiplayer sucks due to the lack of bubble button and the lack of zoom out screen so if some player is less skillful than others can kill himself and the others due to what I have explained before
The dealbreaker for me is having to pay for nitendo online just to play player created levels. its soo stupid that you need a online subscription just to play player created content. tbh who really botheres with nintendo online ? like theres only 3 or 4 games that are worth playing online and even then i wouldnt really say its worth paying for just to play a few smash bros / mario kart games. It really is a offput for alot of nintendos games for me that have online stuff cus theres no way they will ever be able to keep up with sony and microsoft in terms of actuly making the online subscription worth the price and thats before i even mention the stupid voice chat thing that for some reason they think useing a phone to voice chat was a good idea.
Mario Maker 3DS - What a disappointment with so much lost potential... "Oh! You guys seem to really like this Mario Maker game on The wii-U where you can create your own levels and share them with the world, including your friends?! We hear ya! We got ya!" - *proceeds to make the 3DS version* - "HERE YOU GO!!! You can totally make your own levels on the go! Except... you know that whole point of the first game where you can share those levels? Yea, that part wasn't necessary was it? I mean, you clearly want to be the ONLY person that plays those amazing levels you spent hours building for yourself, right?" "What? Easily share levels with people online, or even directly with your friends you have around the world, using a code-system or database? Why would you need that, when you can (only) SHARE DIRECTLY FROM SYSTEM TO SYSTEM, or with StreetPass [which didn't even work well back then]. You all just silly, thinking you needed that." ... is what they must have been thinking on that one... I repeat, "What a disappointment!"
I still play it very often. Better than the original in almost every way and lots of options to make some amazing creations. Unfortunately, while i think that its the best thing they've ever done with 2D Mario, i do think a level editor is not to that many peoples taste, which is why it may only get an overall limited player base. Also, i think people give up too soon on things. While i agree that the updates stopped far too soon, it doesn't change how amazing this game is. Lets not take for granted what we have here and hey, the only thing that can hold you back in Mario Maker is your own imagination.
I was actually considering picking this up. I didnt buy a switch untill November 2023' and I am not alone. When i got mine, i ran into at least 5 other people that first week that also bought one. Seems to me like the switch really blew up here the past couple years. I really wasnt compelled to buy anything from nintendo after n64 untill wii, and wii felt like a gimic and I never bought any games for it. I totally took nintendo out of the equation after that, and felt good about it when wii u came out. With switch, my faith is restored. Its got so much going for it over the other consoles with far less power. I think its possible these games will be re discovered by guys like me in their 30s that came up playing nes, snes, n64 etx and lost touch around the ps2 transition.
Literally the only issue was the peer to peer servers that was the main draw to the sequel was the onlne play but it was god aweul and people moved on. Everyone is sick of non working experiences in gaming across the board your not gonna keep people playing if it doesnt even work.
It would be cool if the next Mario Maker Game was in like an open world environment instead of being a sidescrolling platformer all the time. Being able to create your own levels but in Open World Form.
When they make Super Mario Maker 3, its going to be revolutionary, just like SMM1 and SMM2 were. Its just a matter of when. I'd love to see it release with the next console. who knows? maybe it will even be like Super Mario Maker 3D or something super crazy. we haven't had a mario 3d game since...2017? unless you count bowsers fury.
I think he spent wayyy too long talking about the new features in detail, instead of discussing why the game lost its relevancy. Still a good video though!
With Mario maker 1, I got bored of it after many years of playing and there was nothing to do. But with mario maker 2, I still enjoy the game and there's so much to do, even to this day.
13:22 I am so honored to have one of my levels featured in this video. Thank you, Demeech for playing it, and hope you enjoyed it. I do wish this game still had a vast player base. Of course you’ll always have people like Panga or DGR Dave who will always play this game, but it becomes harder to send levels for streamers on twitch and TH-cam to play, and it’s very sad because the possibilities with this game are infinite. Although I will say I personally think the super worlds need to be more fleshed out.
That was a GREAT level, and quite challenging! Thank you!
@@Demeech Same, You are my Favorite TH-camr So it was an Honor to have you play one of my levels.
@@Demeech Irrelevant people still stream super mario maker 2. No one streams super mario maker 1 anymore. Just cause you moved on from it doesnt mean other people have.And SUper Mario Maker 2 is way better then Super Mario Maker 1.
Great level! Just played it, very cool 😅
To this day we still don't know why they said "Extra Game Styles" (with an S), when there was only ONE extra game style (that being Mario 3D World)... Such a tease
it would have made more sense if they called it "experimental style" or something cause switching to 3D world changes the entire level so i guess that trademark would fit more.
well 'WONDER' no more I think we will get something for that extra spot but we'll just have to wait and see.
Super Mario Maker 2. Honestly, Nintendo was lazy.
@@theshadowworld2239 well not lazy as more on the lines as stubborn if anything else😑
I'm pretty sure SMB2 was going to be an extra game theme but it was scrapped and turned into the SMB2 mushroom
ceave gaming made a good episode on why super mario 1 felt more enjoyable then 2. to boil down is discussion, its that the ui is counter intuitive and inconvenient, with poor priorities which made level building a chore rather than fun.
Also you can’t edit other peoples levels, and other stuff
The biggest issue was the searchability and lack of the amiibo skins. There needed to be a more community based search for levels. Also the amiibo skins added so much to the theming, if licensing was an issue just add in the Nintendo ones. Also 3D World being isolated just limited the game feeling more new.
The lack of amiibo skins was a deal killer for me. Even if licensing issues were a thing, that should just be a harmless little pinch in the arm to Nintendo, the wealthiest company in Japan. With all the amiibo that came out after the original Super Mario Maker, the concept could've easily been expanded upon, instead of our amiibo shelves gathering dust as a result of the concept's disappearance.
Don't get me wrong, the amiibo skins were neat, but they really didn't add much, being exclusive to SMB and not having any effect other than cosmetic. They were cool for the occasional themed level, but they just aren't that important imo.
@@papaG6423 they added a lot to the potential for level themes....felt new
@@timothydarden6133 money isn't the problem its how expensive it gets
@@johnpolishimpossible2say191 For me it just made all levels be the same style; SMB1.
I feel like the reason this game wasn't as popular as the first was more due to how Nintendo treated the people who were trying to experiment with the game rather than the general audiences not liking it. I remember Ceave Gaming talking about how a lot of fun glitches that looked like harmless features were patched just because they didn't intend to include them or how if your level played around with those glitches, they often wouldn't allow you to upload it. It's also due to the fact that in Mario Maker 1, a lot of crazy things were possible which weren't in the sequel. Super Mario Maker 1 lived on because of those who pushed the limits of the game and wanted to prove what was possible and what wasn't. Levels that are impossible if you play an earlier version or if you die after the checkpoint, glitches that allow you to multiply enemies more than intended, levels that were so hard that they took 7 YEARS to beat and were never uploaded thanks to Nintendo's desire of shutting down the ability to upload courses because of its sequel. That's what I think made the first Mario Maker the more relevant game!
It's kinda like Super Smash Bros. Melee and Brawl in a way. Objectively, Brawl is the better game. It's got the better roster, better story mode and tons of new content and yet, it suffered competitively. And yes, Smash 4 and Ultimate had better competitive scenes, but Melee is still being played competitively the most because of all the techniques and the players who pushed the game to its limits. Recently, aMSa rised in the community as a Yoshi main and even proved that, despite his flaws, his character is legitmately viable, like how HungryBox did with Jigglypuff (not sure if he has won a major yet tho, I didn't keep up with competitive Melee).
Everytime I hear Mario Maker 2, I just feel sad, I was hyped for the game, I saw the direct, I bought the cartridge. But I always enjoy what others have to say about the game. The game isn't "ruined" in a sense as it's unplayable for me, but it just feels like it was wasted. There were 3 updates, that's it, with not much stuff in between. The last update was 2 years ago, and seeing all that potential that just went down the drain... I find it odd too, like Smash Ultimate had loads of updates, that game was given love and care while SMM2 feels like it's lacking that PUSH to update the game and be hyped for new things in the game. In short, the thing that ruins the game is NOT a new extra theme, but just the lack of support. Additionally if Nintendo makes a Mario Maker 3, you bet they'll close down the SMM2 servers, specifically not letting you upload levels.
Actually the last update was 3 years ago
I have the same feeling. SMM2 is my most played game ever and I’m still very disappointed with how Nintendo treated it.
Honestly, if Nintendo really is gonna eventually close down online servers for various video games or consoles, then they should honestly just stick to solo or non-online multi-player video games. Hell, maybe even RPGs-
...Oh wait, that's Square Enix' job...
Smash “Ultimate” was a port that was missing a bunch of features.
@@JC-hi8fk no, it wasn't?
You can tell a game is good when the biggest problem with the game is that there wasn’t more of it…
Not really
yeah not really i think if anything this just says something about missed potential
10:44 Dude, thanks a lot for featuring my rendition of the level from the Mario 3 Genesis bootleg. I really appreciate it! :'D It makes me overjoyed, to say the least but I'm more than glad that you enjoyed it that much.
HET
The biggest mistake was the 3DWorld theme being a separate thing. Why the actual hell is the fire bro exclusive to that theme when it’s been in nearly all the other represented games and would be the absolute easiest to add to those he hasn’t been in, just pallet swap the hammer bro and give him a fireball which is already present as Mario‘s and Piranha Plants main projectile
Agreed
It's even more asinine that 3DWorld theme doesn't allow enemy stacking, which is like one of that game's major gimmicks that wasn't a thing in the other games whose themes you can stack in. The things that are and aren't possible feel completely arbitrary.
Same thing with Porcupuffer. He FIRST APPEARED IN SUPER MARIO WORLD!
I think the worst thing about Maker 2 is the lack of level bookmark. With SMM1, I used to find levels during the week, bookmark them and then, play them during the week-end. They were all ready in the game.
With SMM2, sure, I can note the level codes of the levels I want to play but having to write down every single code of every single level I want to play is just painful and way too time consuming (especially if you miss type)!
Sadly though, the sheer existence of SMM2 also overshadows other amazing creative games like Levelhead or Super Dungeon Maker which actually have level bookmarks!
The big issue is the online service. If it was free there like in the Wii U, this game would be more alive.
Absolutely agreed. SMM1 had free online. For the sequel, you need to pay a subscription fee to access it. This is probably the #1 reason why the game didn't become huge.
@@nowheregirl3858the most they should have at least flooded you play the courses of other
Thank you so much for featuring my level! I really hope you enjoyed it. 7:14 Unfortunately, Mario Maker is a type of game that requires a lot of patience when building levels, and lately I haven't had the motivation to finish the super world.
yup i wanted to make a super world too but theres no motivation to make it
Thank you too!
Ive made quite a few super worlds,but usually they get worse the further they go because of lack of motivation.
They really should’ve done a super Mario land 2 style. It would’ve saved them.
Or maybe just simply support the game for more than a year
@@ThatGuyLegend and even that support was isolated to like 2 update dumps if memory serves me.
@@johnpolishimpossible2say191yes there was two updates 6 months apart and that was it. what they should have done was keep updating the game every two months and gave the game support for at least 2-3 years to keep the player base alive.
No it wouldn’t lol. It would’ve been neat and made some people happy but they’d need like a super Mario odyssey theme or something to make like millions of people hyped to go buy it now
@@IceBlueLugia i mean it would've helped keep the community there that loves Mario maker 2. like if in one update they bring back the amibo mushroom and all the costumes aside from original link. that would make the community happy as well as an music maker for separate levels and completely fix the 3d world style. but you are right as well, if Nintendo added an Mario odyssey and Yoshi island as new game styles in a update that would be huge and help Mario maker more.
I miss SMM1’s ability to see how levels you downloaded were constructed.
Some time after this game's release, Nintendo have started putting online play behind a paywall, making it strictly worse than Super Mario Maker 1.
It's messed up enough that Nintendo is charging us to use our own online connections that we're already paying for, but it's even worse that you have to pay for online after having already paid full price for an essentially online-only game.
Yeah very scummy practice, just because Sony and Microsoft have it doesn't mean nintendo has to rip us off, especially since their games cost so much and never go on sale, But hey! Atleast it isn't fucking ps plus that costs 3 times as much for year and only thing that it has that online doesn't are 2 monthly games (that mostly suck, seriously i checked all ps plus offerings for last 2 years, i only got out of it 2 games, one of which went f2p later.)
The best aspect of Wonder is the expressive animation imo. The fact that they finally animated Mario entering a pipe instead of just sliding him up is huge
Something that few people realize is the lack of Miiverse.
Miiverse was amazing for a game like Super Mario Maker, a place where people could share the levels they made or comment on other levels. It made everything feel so much more social.
28:25 Thank you so much for featuring my level in the video, I really hope you enjoyed it. :)
Nice work!
@@Demeech Thx
They stopped supporting it because it didn't sell. You can argue that more support would have sold more units, but that's not a guarantee. Nintendo didn't see enough interest in the title, and you can't just keep throwing good money after bad.
they should have kept the costumes smh
Ngl Super Mario Maker 2 is a way better sequel than Super Mario Maker 1 but the thing 1 did better than 2 is keep me hooked idk how many years I played that game without getting bored the level editor was so fun, playing with the letters on the title screen was fun, the minigames, collecting amiibo costumes was fun (which is literally the only reason I bought amiibo was bc of the cool skins). But after like a year and a half of playing Super Mario Maker 2 I abandoned it which is the issue with the game like Super Mario Maker was so exciting bc nobody has ever seen anything like it. I played that game for over 3 years every day because I loved it and somehow the 3DS port kept me hooked longer than 2 did aswell ik people hate the 3DS port but I have a soft spot for it because it was the first version I ever played plus it was Mario Maker on the go I loved creating my own levels to play and I also loved the story mode and trying to get the medals me and my dad spent a lot of time together playing that game. I remember also playing the wii u version on road trips and vacations because it was so much fun. Super Mario Maker 2 I was so hyped for and couldn't wait to play it but after the first year it slowly started to fade away and I barely revisit it anymore. So yes SMM2 is the better game but SMM1 kept people hooked for a very long time. People still play it to this day which is pretty crazy. I am still sad to this day that my favorite wii u game of all time is completely dead, but all good things must come to an end.
It really is a shame because mario maker 1 and 2 could have been something incredible but sadly they just lack so much content to make decent levels . So many requested themes never showed up either it just feels like a missed opportunity
Honestly, many of the issues you mentioned were a factor, but I think Ceave Gaming had a good point when he talked about a lot of the technical level from Maker 1 not being possible in Maker 2. You simply can't create a good calculator in Maker 2 like you can make one in Maker 1, etc. These technical levels were part of the joy of watching people play Maker 1 and it's a shame they can't really be remade in Maker 2, when many of these former viewers can finally experience the levels themselves.
Who remembers waiting for the checkpoint update in Mario Maker 1 for the Wii U?
This game failed me on a simple basic level. I was an amiibo collector when it came out, however not owning a Wii U meant I never got to try out the amiibo costumes in Mario Maker. Them removing the costumes for no reason in the sequel was a big blow to my overall enjoyment.
This is the game that needs the extended DLC treatment that Mario Kart 8 is getting.. Would help it so much.
Where's the critique for SMB3's lack of new music for many themes? I get the original SMB3 had the same track for many areas, but seeing no new desert or forest music disappointed me anyway.
The fact the game's MAIN PLAYING MODE, Course World, is stuck behind a paywall is IMO the main reason it didn't take off. Like, people didn't have to pay extra every year to keep Super Mario Maker 1 alive. It stayed alive because it was easy to understand and all you had to do was make, share online, look for levels, and play. In Super Mario Maker 2, making is a little more difficult, and you can't share online, or even look for and play user created levels without having to pay extra for the online service. And IMO, the Story Mode wasn't enough. If anything really needed to be updated, it was the amount of content you could play without having to go online. There's also the fact that Super Worlds, my most requested feature for the original, was not included in the game when it launched. First impressions make a big difference, so the ability to create world maps to put your levels on would've made a much bigger difference had the game launched with it, whether you consider the game finished or not. As someone who really couldn't afford to keep online going every month, I still remember the disappointment when I found out I couldn't even do the bare minimum of SHARING my levels unless I sold my soul to Nintendo. I was willing to accept not being able to play levels, but not being able to share? What was the point then?
You nailed on every criticism of SMM2 on the long road. And let me say it, if Nintendo gave SMM 2 10~20% of the support they gave to Super Smash Bros Ultimate, the game would be infinitely better, because, what we got? Link, SMB 2 Power-up's, Super Worlds and Ninji Speedruns.
And on a irony case, it's kinda the same philosophy Nintendo gave to their sports games on Switch, but in reverse. A game released complete, but with almost no post content.
Amazing retrospective as always, I also have a suggestion: how about doing a live stream where you play our levels?
That's a good idea!
I personally played the heck out of the first game, and when I got my Switch, my second game was Super Mario Maker 2. So it's important to my switch life. But for me, it was pretty obnoxious to make levels, I found it really boring and weird, unlike the first game, where it would be great (specially with the gamepad).
I think one of the two big factors impacting how much attention Mario Maker 2 got is that the first one did good enough that people got their fill on the concept of custom mario stages, and experienced all the ups and downs that you'd get from that. All the features in SMM2 appealed more to people that were big fans of the game, but not enough to push it to new heights than what was seen in 1. Trying to point at all the features that were added and those that were cut, are aspects that matter more to people that were going to buy and play it heavily regardless of how the game turned out, while the majority of the casual audience "oh, I'd rather have a normal 2D Mario again, I'm good." Cause like, regardless of how many tools are added, and how many talented people you have contributing to the game, you're always going to deal with 4-9 stinkers before getting to a level that's executing it's idea well, and that's not assuming the idea it's going for is even one you enjoy.
The second factor is that SMM2 came out on a good system. The Switch has more than a handful of games you could enjoy playing being released each year. I think SMM1 did about the most you could expect with the Wii U without getting into gimmicky territory, and with how few decent titles it got, you could always go back to that title because, well, infinite levels. As someone who got both games, I just don't really see myself returning to 2. I barely even hear my friends talk about it beyond the year it came out.
I'll also say the lack of fun custom sprite swaps to unlock over time made it less fun to replay. It's a small, dumb goal, but it's at least something to look forward to after the fiftieth Hold Right To Win stage
Thanks for featuring my course in the video!
(10:14)
Another great video, as always. I wish I watched it much, much earlier. Nice to see a retrospective that isn’t exactly all for the pros or the cons. Of course, many thanks for bothering to feature my level at 2:43 , it means a lot.
Hoping to see many more high quality retrospectives in the future.
31:21 thanks for featuring my level, feels cool to see it in an actual video! Nice retrospective.
Nice work!
@@Demeech thanks man!
Each player getting their own screen in a 2D co-op game is a godsend that Sonic Advance 3 and Super Mario Maker 2 features
It’s a shame you don’t see that often in other titles
you really need to share the level codes for the ones you played in video, they look actually very good
I am so sad that SMM2 is in decline. I remember getting it on launch day, going as far as pre-ordering it and I loved it and still do. So it is a real shame to me.
I preordered it too and the copy I got came with 12 month Nintendo online membership, it’s the whole reason I got a Nintendo Switch 😢
The game itself is good, but the mandatory online subscription to even play the main part of a game that already costs 60 bucks just killed it from the get-go, at least for me.
A creative community will be formed regardless of Nintendo's input. The main issue of SMM2 is locking the online sharing behind a paywall. Not everyone will be making new levels, they will play the offline portion and download user made levels. If they can't download anything because they don't have NSO, they lose interest. If anyone wanting to share levels with the world don't have NSO, they lose interest.
Also, it is a Switch exclusive game. Despite being a popular console, these kinds of games are most played with mouse on PC.
ngl, I thought there would be a fury segment. But I guess the lack thereof reflects your own feelings towards the game: disappointed, but not irritated. I'm guessing none of the flaws you pointed out during the video completely ruin their corresponding features, either, just hold them back in some capacity.
An outstanding game that nonetheless still needed more dev love
Thank you so much!
Good point. I am not entirely sure why Nintendo would bring in the Snow and Forest themes, but not the Tower, Mountain, Beach and Volcano themes.
Really happy to see my level (The House in the Level) made it into the video! Good Video Demeech!
There's just something about ur voice that is so iconic and I love it every time I watch a demeech video, really separates from the rest
Thanks man!
I'm surprised you didn't mention how the stone block and toad escorts in story mode aren't available in the level editor, and how Fire Bros are exclusive to 3D World for some reason.
Don't forget the porcupuffer too when it originated in Super Mario World and it's only in 3D World for some reason.
I bought MM1 day one and loved it-played it until 2019. I bought MM2 and I just couldn’t get used to the level designer UI-it felt so clunky to use, difficult to keep track of where everything was, and much less intuitive than the original’s menus. Even if it was designed for a controller, I think they did a very poor job at it, which is mostly why I stopped playing after only a couple months. I do still very much enjoy watching folks play the game though, but I just don’t enjoy playing it myself anymore, making my own levels or playing others’.
An amazing informative retrospective. I hope Super Mario Maker 3 is an even better experience
Not going to happen. New 2D Mario is happening
@@dreamsdeep1076 I know but when it eventually happens. I'm glad we're done with the new Super Mario Bros era
Thank you so much man! Glad you liked it.
@@dreamsdeep1076 Ah not so fast you have to think about the super switch in mind but if you're talking about the current one remember extra game styles I don't think that's a typo anymore (hint hint😉)
I prefer 2 by far, spent over 4k hours in the game. It has so much more, and I can get around to using it.
2 has much greater potential but it was hindered by 1 being novelty.
I remember crying in the original Mario Maker 1 Nintendo deleted my level for not being popular enough
Fun fact, before the Link powerup was introduced I predicted that it was gonna be a Zelda game style - fans were wanting a Zelda maker, so that could've been Nintendo's way of "kinda" giving it to us - and I felt so cool for predicting Zelda content being added to the game, albeit it's not exactly what I thought they'd do with it.
A very important and necessary change that many people overlook is to get rid of Mario Maker 2’s unnecessary limitations, which I believe is one of the contributing reasons why it wasn’t as successful or long lasting as we’d hoped. With not much depth in the creation tools, people will often feel restricted and “handicapped” in a sense, as they frequently stumble upon roadblocks and realize what they envisioned for a project is completely impossible to achieve. This results in creators growing tired of the game as it starts to feel stale and one dimensional. Not only this, but the level of variation greatly shrinks in uploaded stages because of the shallow tools, resulting in a predictable and monotonous pool of levels that repels eventual returning players much quicker. There simply isn’t enough power in the tools for enough depth and variety in the visual, structural and mechanical aspects of levels.
Level Liquids
You cannot mix liquids with level themes however you want. That’s a huge amount of potential thematic variation thrown out of the window, for no apparent reason. Allowing experimentation with such a feature would open up many possibilities such as water castles, lava caves, poisonous deserts, no water forests, submerged ghost houses, etc.
Night Themes
All the night backgrounds look exactly the same except for the airship, failing to fulfill the main purpose of level themes; to give aesthetic variation. Not only are the backgrounds lacking, but so is the music with tinny music box covers of the original tracks. This generally makes the night themes unattractive to use, and doubles down, together with their overall similarity, on being a pointless addition that again fails at what it was supposed to achieve; thematic variation. The night themes also have their unique level effect like sandstorms, darkness, low gravity, floating enemies, etc, but again restricts any kind of experimentation by combining effects with different level themes. This results in even less visual variety alongside the backgrounds and music, which resultantly created a disaster of a feature that has no place in a level creation tool. The proper implementation would simply be to give the night themes proper backgrounds and music, remove their fixed effects so they exist solely to add aesthetic variation, and let the player freely choose an effect for each subarea, no matter what level themes they’ve chosen. Alongside the ability to freely choose liquids, imagine the possibilities of combinations!
Super Mario 3D World
3D world was implemented in the worst possible way which resulted in a divide in the level editor since you cannot switch between 3D world and the other styles without removing everything in your level. 3D world has many missing features from the other styles such as tracks, freely placeable semisolids, several gizmos, night themes, poison, stackable enemies, and much more. As a result of the divide, the other styles also weirdly enough don’t have features that 3D world has exclusively. The main ones are the Firebros and Porkupuffers, and there’s no apparent reason as to why they’re a 3D world exclusive. Ultimately, 3D world only divides the game and feels overly restrictive compared to the other styles.
Other Limitations
There are other limitations that could potentially create much more structural and mechanical variations if it weren’t for their existence. The subareas are bizarrely exactly the same size as in the previous game, and you’re still limited to only 2 areas in total, which heavily limits the scope of levels. An infinite timer is also absent, which was a frequently requested feature that simply was overlooked by Nintendo. A lot of the course parts feel weirdly rudimentary like the skewer, firebar, fire burner and twister, with not much customization of how they work. You cannot extend skewers and adjust their speed, fire bars are limited to one arm, fire burners cannot be extended or set to be constant, and twisters cannot be placed in pipes, etc. There’s still no way to draw background tiles individually to create more organic looking levels, and as a result of this potential feature’s absence, levels look artificial and tacky. The lack of new enemies didn’t help with the game’s short lived life either, as there were only 3 new ones at release, and the updates only helped with the issue marginally. There were also very few new gizmos. Custom scroll cannot be used in subareas for no apparent reason, further restricting possibilities. The main area cannot be vertical, meaning vertical areas can only be accessed with pipes, which again creates predictability and removes a layer of structural variety. You’re only allowed 4 doors per subarea which heavily limits the scope of levels, the camera is difficult to control, and the scroll stop feature works in fewer situations than what’s initially anticipated, which further limits the possibilities and variation in levels. Etc, etc, etc.
Course World
The course maker isn’t the only aspect of Mario Maker 2 that suffers from unnecessary limitations. The course world is also one of the determining factors for why Mario Maker 2 struggled to stay alive longer. The multiplayer was catastrophic at launch, being a laggy, unplayable mess for months on end, which I strongly believe turned a large number of people away from playing the game. Furthermore, mario maker 2 introduced a new game mode, endless mode, which challenges the player to progress as far as possible without dying by playing a random stream of user-created levels. The problem with Endless is that there’s no end goal, meaning its incentive to play is weaker than with Mario Maker 1’s 100 Mario challenge, which the game for some reason lacks. Endless mode is perfectly fine as it is, but it should not have replaced the 100 Mario challenge, but complimented it. Moving on to the levels tab, it also suffers from a jarring issue: it’s way too difficult to find actually good levels. Most levels in the hot courses and popular tab are either “Refreshing levels” where you just look at flashy visuals, speedrun levels where you run and hit the same on/off blocks and question mark blocks, and other overdone levels. They all play out the same and are extremely repetitive and monotonous, resulting in an unattractive and predictable selection of levels, which I strongly believe has repelled a lot of the user base. The search feature is also lackluster as there’s no way to search specific level names since all we have are a few vague tags, which only worsens the problem. Good course worlds are even more difficult to find as their search tools are even more limited, where your only option is to refresh a small page of random course worlds, without having to resort to entering a user ID only accessible from third-party sources. These caveats collectively make the course world overly unattractive and tedious to use, which is again a strong contributor to the game’s underwhelming performance.
You get the point. Super Mario Maker 2 is sadly held back by its countless unnecessary limitations, which honestly is Nintendo’s own fault. They decided to be "control freaks", but as a return shipped a game that did less well than expected. I sincerely hope they learn from their mistakes and let us experiment more in Mario Maker 3, just imagine the possibilities.
It still annoys me that this game sold less than NSMBU Deluxe
I wish Nintendo weren't so out of touch with modern gaming. SMM2 should have had regular updates like Minecraft does over 10 years after release.
They should have port the first super mario maker to the switch
What killed it for me is how the online was handled. You want to make me pay to upload and play levels online? That's stupid but go ahead. However, give me a stable multiplayer because it was something else man...
22:14 You did the classic!? Mario 3 around the world!? That's amazing of you Demeech ❤
Whats worse is mario party superstars did incredibly well and fans loved it. Yet it didn't get ANY updates or post launch content at all.. thats a worse thing than what happend to maker 2. Nintendos backwards thinking and nonsense decisions p*ss me off..🙄
What is you guys best music for each theme
SMB
-Desert-Day and night
-Underground-Day
-Ghost house-Night
-Airship-Day
-Castle-Day
SMB3
Sky-Day and night
Ghost house-Day
SMW
Ground-Day and Night
Ghost house-Night
Snow-Day and night
Castle-Day
SMBU
Ground-Day and Night
Underground-Day
Sky-Day and Night
Ghost house-Day
Desert-Day
Airship-Day
Snow-Day
Castle-Day
This is one of my shorter reviews mostly cause I rather to keep stuff short, yes I do think super mario maker 2 is overall an improvment over super mario maker 1 in most cases, a new style, more enemies and stuff to mess around with, bosses, and power ups even though I wish amiibo mushrooms would show up, the story mode is solid and I say is an intresting one to say the least my main issue with SMM2 is how laggy the online co op like I so some in YT a lot back then, but for more stuff is overall feel like missed potential the game had a lot of stuff around and while it can be the worst mario game in the worng hands it can be the best but it seems like nintendo stop support the game I feel is mostly due to 2020 being 2020 but also for maybe a poor corporate decision the game get the rank of mid A tier still worthwhile to play but still kinda wish it would get more updates or a sequel would have come to give what have could be in 2 but is more than likley be on the next console more than anything *sigh*
But to end on a high note I say you defenitley show ambition and care to your retrospect gator boi keep it up I am sure look for what be next
One of the things I've heard is that SMM2 did not meet Nintendo's sales expectations. Despite the Switch doing super hot, not a lot of people seemed to attach themselves to SMM2 the way they did SMM1.
It could be for the reasons you stated in the video, some things 1 had that 2 got rid of or did worse. Could be the lack of a bookmarking site that made loading up levels you found on the internet a simple task. Somehow I think Nintendo got the idea that adding new content and updates were predicated on the game doing well sales-wise, within Nintendo's predictions. Really, those updates are probably what could've drove the numbers Ninty was chasing. But then again, I'm just bitter about the lack of a Hammer Suit in SMB3. And Tanooki Suit. And P-Wings, for that matter. God dammit, there was just so many more things SMM2 could've had and Nintendo killed that dream early.
Honestly the only reason I stopped playing was because I didn't feel like it was worth paying for nintendo switch online and I really wished there were additional game styles. New Super mario bros Ds or Mario Land 2 would've been my picks.
Mario Maker 2 is definitely massive a step up from the original especially in terms of the level-building aspect, but its missed potential just can't be ignored. Also, you caught me offguard at 23:33.
One reason it went wrong is because of having to pay for an online membership compared to the original you didn't have to.
I don't know how to describe Mario Maker 1 versus 2 other than that 2 just feels like a regular game whereas 1 is very weird and it's that lack of weirdness that makes me not like Maker 2 as much.
The random mushroom being gone make sense because they would have to somehow acquire all the licenses for all the weird suits again but other than that All the weird things that are missing don't need to be missing.
Also some people say the original wiremaker had a better level editor and in some ways yes in some ways no but there should be a more touchscreen optimized interface that you can select when using it in handheld mode.
You can play levels online in local multiplayer, just not in endless challenge or vs mode. I used to do it a lot because my friends didn't wanna play mario kart or mario party (for some reason)
Super mario maker wii u main theme of amiibo costumes is the main reason why I purchased it. I loved making run through levels with and especially splatoon theme levels.
The sequal removed that and sure improved the title in many different ways but the main reason on why I loved mario maker was the costume level themes and I am more a level builder then level player, the costumes is a heavy motivated narrative for me to make levels.
The online co op / online play with other players was awful at launch and it was a slide show whenever I played with viewers and after two streams I was done with the title.
The story mode is fun but heavily bland / boring in my opinion and I did not want to continue it, as I stopped playing it around fifty or sixty percent completed castle ranking. It was not enjoyable for me. Wii U Mario Maker is heavily superior in my opinion.
Super Mario Maker 2's final update added so much I wanted, especially Super Worlds and the Koopalings. But the game definitely has some missed potential like the lack of diagonal pipes and placeable water/lava/poison tiles. I also think that despite being more fun to play than the original due to so many new features, the first Super Mario Maker was more fun to make it due to how intuitive it felt to use the Wii U Gamepad.
There were a ton of weird decisions for this game and it felt very rushed.
it just sucks cause of the fact they stopped updating for no reason at all,
i just hope mario maker 3 becomes better (if it ever comes out)
and maybe JUST maybe, we get an actual smb2 style.
I mean cmon Nintendo
i love you guys
but SMB2 not having a lot stuff traditional mario games had isn't an excuse for not having an smb2 style, just make new assets damn it.
Also
the online levels need some kind of moderation
they all suck
and are toooo difficult and unfun
*Luigi nerd activated*
also, why tf are the luigi sprites in smb1 and 3 just pallette swaps, they were like that in the original but so was with smw, so why couldn't they just make better sprites, they have no excuse for it since they made some for toadette and toad
Agreed And as for 4P races you can thank crowd bais for that one I guess speed runner just don't want to slow down and think for a split second before advancing so from one player to another upvote all the fun ones you can find in online multiplayer and just downvote all the 4P VS courses they've made by the dozens
you'll thank me for it later.
The stage creator is way worse than on the wii u, its clunky, using a controller is horrible and using the switch in handheld does not work well for creation, the wii u version was a 10/10, this is a 4/10. Oh and the story mode is awful and having 3D world be completely separate is laughable.
Here what I would have changed/added. I would make SMB2 a full game style, though I'm still glad we got the powerup at least. I want a Samus Suit power up, and for it, Link, and SMB2 you should be able to start the level with them and not lose them when hit. Same screen multiplayer is difficult to survive in since players bump eachother out of the way instead of overlaping. I would allow player overlap especially if players share a screen. With world maker mode the levels needed multiple goal posts so the world map would unlock the route you took, and leave the other locked. For nonlinear routes you need more than 5 levels per world allowed. Without this world maker does not really affect gameplay in any meaningful way. I agree on name searching levels, but also wish there were better level tags such as: multiroute/non-linear, linear, SMB2, Cape Mario, coin collect mission, optional red coins, key level, kaiso, ect. Finally allowing as many checkpoints as you want in a level. There's some other things, but these seem like they should have been there.
Definitely one of my most anticipated Demeech videos
What did you think?
I enjoyed thanks for making this! It’s my most played Switch game.
14:30 Thanks for featuring my level man!
At 16:32 thank you for playing my level and great video 😁
I agree with most of your points
However i disagree with your apparent need for a music creator. Because at that point it strays away from being mario. When you remove the identity of the game it just becomes another game builder garage. And we all know how well THAT did
IMO, the biggest missteps with SMM2 were a) the lack of a website where you could bookmark and link to levels, and b) they removed the feature where you could look at other people's levels in the editor. The former made it so much more convenient to play levels you see in a video, while the latter was such a cool way to see how other levels worked. The latter is especially disappointing given that SMM2 is so much more contraption-oriented.
The angry sun on the new sup style is also funny because it looks like it's the type of angry that's so angry that it has had enough and doesn't have the time to make an angry face, it's just done with life and wants to focus on destroying the life it has supported for millions of years.
I really hated how you had to have switch online too
Mario Maker 2: The Less Fun Stuff Version
I really hope they make a third game even if it’s a few years after the console comes out
24:04 Also you can play online levels but even so, local multiplayer sucks due to the lack of bubble button and the lack of zoom out screen so if some player is less skillful than others can kill himself and the others due to what I have explained before
You can actually play online levels in co-op now, they fixed it in an update a couple years ago.
The dealbreaker for me is having to pay for nitendo online just to play player created levels. its soo stupid that you need a online subscription just to play player created content. tbh who really botheres with nintendo online ? like theres only 3 or 4 games that are worth playing online and even then i wouldnt really say its worth paying for just to play a few smash bros / mario kart games. It really is a offput for alot of nintendos games for me that have online stuff cus theres no way they will ever be able to keep up with sony and microsoft in terms of actuly making the online subscription worth the price and thats before i even mention the stupid voice chat thing that for some reason they think useing a phone to voice chat was a good idea.
7:33 what are you talking about? Monty Moles were in the the first game
My mistake! Thought they were new.
@@Demeech it's fine, one tiny mistake in a 30 minute video isn't much to whine about
I think that it’s because Mario was the first game that you could make levels on, so there was more hype
Mario Maker 3DS - What a disappointment with so much lost potential...
"Oh! You guys seem to really like this Mario Maker game on The wii-U where you can create your own levels and share them with the world, including your friends?! We hear ya! We got ya!" - *proceeds to make the 3DS version* - "HERE YOU GO!!! You can totally make your own levels on the go! Except... you know that whole point of the first game where you can share those levels? Yea, that part wasn't necessary was it? I mean, you clearly want to be the ONLY person that plays those amazing levels you spent hours building for yourself, right?"
"What? Easily share levels with people online, or even directly with your friends you have around the world, using a code-system or database? Why would you need that, when you can (only) SHARE DIRECTLY FROM SYSTEM TO SYSTEM, or with StreetPass [which didn't even work well back then]. You all just silly, thinking you needed that."
... is what they must have been thinking on that one...
I repeat, "What a disappointment!"
I still play it very often. Better than the original in almost every way and lots of options to make some amazing creations. Unfortunately, while i think that its the best thing they've ever done with 2D Mario, i do think a level editor is not to that many peoples taste, which is why it may only get an overall limited player base.
Also, i think people give up too soon on things. While i agree that the updates stopped far too soon, it doesn't change how amazing this game is. Lets not take for granted what we have here and hey, the only thing that can hold you back in Mario Maker is your own imagination.
I was actually considering picking this up. I didnt buy a switch untill November 2023' and I am not alone. When i got mine, i ran into at least 5 other people that first week that also bought one. Seems to me like the switch really blew up here the past couple years. I really wasnt compelled to buy anything from nintendo after n64 untill wii, and wii felt like a gimic and I never bought any games for it. I totally took nintendo out of the equation after that, and felt good about it when wii u came out. With switch, my faith is restored. Its got so much going for it over the other consoles with far less power. I think its possible these games will be re discovered by guys like me in their 30s that came up playing nes, snes, n64 etx and lost touch around the ps2 transition.
I also love the nsmbu Angry Sun Design
Bro you ain't happy with anything bro.
Literally the only issue was the peer to peer servers that was the main draw to the sequel was the onlne play but it was god aweul and people moved on. Everyone is sick of non working experiences in gaming across the board your not gonna keep people playing if it doesnt even work.
Only Nintendo could somehow make people lose interest in one of the best games on Switch.
the game was extremely limited, we don't like being limited, really as simple as that
It would be cool if the next Mario Maker Game was in like an open world environment instead of being a sidescrolling platformer all the time. Being able to create your own levels but in Open World Form.
When they make Super Mario Maker 3, its going to be revolutionary, just like SMM1 and SMM2 were. Its just a matter of when. I'd love to see it release with the next console. who knows? maybe it will even be like Super Mario Maker 3D or something super crazy. we haven't had a mario 3d game since...2017? unless you count bowsers fury.
It's here
I think he spent wayyy too long talking about the new features in detail, instead of discussing why the game lost its relevancy. Still a good video though!
How Super Mario Bros U Deluxe is worst than the original?
With Mario maker 1, I got bored of it after many years of playing and there was nothing to do. But with mario maker 2, I still enjoy the game and there's so much to do, even to this day.
All we have now are music speedruns and refreshers…
Sad how Nintendo just kinda abandoned this game and stop updating it.
oh my god there's actually no demeech's fury in a video based on a nintendo game
it shows that they can still do right
Ya know it's funny warioware diy did all the things i wish mario maker had done which was give full creativity to the player and a music maker