@@spitefulwarIt really does. Which is why I'm reluctant to cover night combat. Even though WT displays them quite nicely and you can see everything well.
dude just a question, what do you think about the current geopolitical situation between your country and others in the middle east? just because I'm curious to hear the perspective of others
@@michelestefanini5466 unlike what most people think Iran will not going to start any major conflict with it's adversaries like Israel an USA. Wars need money and people's support and luckily Iran's government doesn't have either of them. All these macho man poses are just show offs for internal propaganda. But in reality Israel just demolished hamas and Israel will not stop with hamas. Houthis in Yemen and Hezbollah in Lebanon will be next and Iran will not move a muscle to support them
I was the radar Controller during both engagements. Seeing the 104 all Gnats broke and ran for their lives. sikind went east, entered India, and when about 20 miles north of Amritsar, turned about, entered Pakistan and landed at Pasrur. He was lost.
Thank you very much for sharing your personal experience! What you say matches with most descriptions I could find. Perhaps his navigation wasn't broken but he was low on fuel, probably exhausted from the dogfight and really worried about Starfighters. He could have easily made a mistake under such pressure.
There were many incidents in WW2 of aircraft landing on an enemy airfield by mistake. Weather and fatigue were usually the main contributing factors to navigation errors. So it's not surprising to see early jet aircraft, with navigation equipment similar to WW2 aircraft, making similar mistakes.
Pakistani 104 units are some of the most successful users of the airframe, both in operational results and incident counts... they got really good at this...
@@showtime112 in war the only thing that matters is victory. The Americans had better weapons in Afghanistan but still they lost. So the weapon had no effect on the war.
Fascinating. Well researched and well presented. Seems bizarre to think of the F104 “Widowmaker” dogfighting with the tiny part ground attack/trainer/Red Arrows display mount, the Gnat. Really enjoy these videos.
Amazing point to notice was the training and maintenance standards of the F104 squadron . . Pakistan received 12 airframes in 1960 or 1961 . . And at the start of 1965 war, PAF was flying all 12 airframes with not a single crash . . with most if not all pilots of the squadron had accumulated 800 to a 1000 flying hours on star fighters . . PAF lost just 02 star fighters during 1965 war, one during air combat due to collision and other during landing accident in a dust storm . . Between 1965 and 1971 war, there was a single plane crash . . And at the start of 1971 war PAF still had on the field 09 airframes with 08 in flying condition . . 09 Royal Jordanian Airforce Starfighters joined PAF during 1971 war bringing the total to 18 aircrafts . . PAF losses during 71 war were 04 starfighters (02 lost during air combat and 02 to AAA fire/ 02 belonging to PAF & 02 to RJAF) . . RJAF aircrafts returned after the war, leaving Pakistan with 06 functioning airframes, which were all retired in 1972 . . 02 of these airframes are stationed at PAF Museum and the other 04 are performing guard duties at various PAF bases . . Compare this with the attrition rates of other users such as USAF, Germans or the Turkish Airforces . . PAF really rocked . . 👍👍👍
Thank you for this summary. I had no idea when the Starfighters were retired and how many of the originals were on strength when they retired. Nor I was aware of the contribution from the Royal Jordanian Airforce in 1971.
@@lelandhetrick205 you are welcomed . . Starfighter war record was also not bad considering the small numbers held with PAF . . In 65 war, Starfighters were responsible for forced landings of 02 Indian aircrafts, first an Oregon during Kutch Crisis and later a Gnat just threw days before start of actual 65 war . . During the war, Starfighters shot down 02 Mysteres and a Canberra with another Mystere and a Canberra as probable, while loosing a single Starfighter due to collision during combat . . During 71 war, Starfighters shot down a Gnat, a SU-7, a Canberra and an Indian Navy Alize, while destroying 02 aircrafts on ground during strafing and loosing 02 aircrafts in dog fight against Mig-21s and 02 to ground fire . .
@@lelandhetrick205 Reason for writing all this is to justify what a great aircraft Starfighter was . . I don't know why and how USAF and Germans lost so many aircrafts during accidents or due to pilot errors . . As in the hands of PAF pilots, Starfighter retained an almost impeccable record . . Starfighter is really a joy to eyes . . More sexier than the sexiest women ever to grace the earth . . 😘😘😘
@@iftikharfaridy2974 The rate of shoot-downs and losses of the F-104 is one of the best in the world, demonstrating that despite being outdated, it was a tough nut to crack that even after having lost one of these to the MiG-21 in 1971, the fighters The Indians had great problems against the Starfighters, which together with the Mirage IIIEP fighters were the nightmare of the Indian squadrons. Without a doubt, the F-104 and its unit in combat are undoubtedly one of the best, the F-104 is even already in the collective imagination of many as the image of the PAF fighters during that time.
@@iftikharfaridy2974 It is well known that the Germans blamed the accidents on the F-104, but the problem was that many, as always, never look at the reasons. Practically, the Germans used the Starfighter for something that had not been designed and to make matters worse, almost all of their squadrons were made up of novice and inexperienced pilots who in the hands of this piece of plane crashed as if they were descendants of the Bf-109. Literally, the F-104 pilot team in Germany had few flight hours and their experience in the demanding interceptor rewarded them with disasters. The F-104 is an excellent combat aircraft IF you know how to handle it, with adequate training and pilots with good qualities, in the Pakistani service which was a "third world" air force it was one of the best on the entire continent and the performance of These were among the best, the accident rate was practically zero in their total operational life and despite being few, their impact on the region was quite strong that led their neighbors (Iran and India) to acquire new aircraft such as the F- 4 or MiG-21 not to be left behind. This shows that they were efficient and powerful interceptor fighters. And it completely dispels the myth of the Widow Maker. I remember a Pakistani who had a relative flying the F-104 who called the fighter the "most difficult horse to ride, but once tamed it was simply unbeatable."
Thank you! Yes, it would be great if they added the Gnat. India needs at least a sub tree if not a full, independent one. Sure, most of it would be copy-paste but several unique airplanes could be added and Gaijin could attract a whole bunch of new players.
Your videos on dogfights and aviation heroes are simply awesome! Your dedication to sharing these stories is truly inspiring. Keep up the fantastic work!
The video seems fine to me in terms of darkness. Love the varied content you produce on different aircraft and conflicts around the world. I always thought the F-104 was a beautiful plane but didn't seem like a very successful fighter. The one Norway still has in operation has great videos on youtube.
I read the Royal Norwegian Air Force operated 44 F-104. It lost 6 of them. Compared to West Germany's Bundesluftwaffe, which lost 269 out of its 916, this ratio seems low. Is there any explanation?
The F-104 STARFIGHTER is very good for interception at high altitude, its vertical acceleration send it to the stars. But in a dogfight at low altitude with low speed, it's like driving a stone, it doesn't turn like the MIG-25 or the MIG-31, it is not a easy thing to realize. To obtain a victory against a DASSAULT MYSTERE, it's a great performance even if you use a sidewinder !!!
Salut Jeanne. En fait les F104 ont été obtenus en échange de utilisation de la base de Peshawar pour utilisation du U2A par les ricains pour espionner les rouges. Suite vidéo sur F1EQ, j'en apprend un max sur cette version plus performant que les premiers 2000RDM. Un colonel de la 30ec a été mis minable en 3 combat par un grade irakien pilote expert sur mig21 qui n'avait que 13hdv sur F1EQ2 et du simulateur. La rumeur dit que il a été relevé du commandement de la 30😮😮😮
En décembre 71, un F104 à été abattu par mig21, tiré au 23mm à plus de 600m de distance. Piloteh éjecte au dessus de la mer et disparu. L'endroit étant infesté de..requins
@@dominiqueroudier9401 Les relations entre le Pakistan et les USA étaient au beau fixe à l'époque, maintenant c'est plus compliqué car les chinois sont entrés dans la danse avec la création du JF-17. Le 2000 RDM, technologiquement parlant n'était pas tout à fait au point dès sa mise en service en 84 dans nos armées, remplacé vite fait bien fait par le 2000 RDI, couple bien plus performant. Les irakiens faisaient la guerre, donc ils étaient plus performants que nos gars. C'est logique. Il y a la dernière vidéo sur clan des officiers, c'est l'EPILOGUE, SNIF !!! Par contre nouvelle série à venir, l'histoire d'un pilote allemand sur ME-109 en 1943, série intitulée DERNIERE RAFALE, il y a le lien et la présentation de la nouvelle série. C'est cool !!!
@@jeannezehner9450 je continue la lecture du bouquin du F1EQ un peu tous les matins. Yaura des anecdotes vu qu'il fera mieux que le super étendard et même camouflage que lui. Je vais de ce pas au clan des officiers
PAF always had an edge over IAF due to US support. IAF had to fight hard to stop PAF. Pakistan lost 1965 war, they started the war to take Kashmir by force but couldn't take an inch. Indian part of Kashmir is much more developed now
PAF had technological edge but IAF had numerical edge. 1965 war is a stalemate. India violated International boundary first. Indian side of Kashmir has a much worse track record of human rights violations too.
attacking Kashmir is not illegal according to international law. However defined border land like Punjab borders are internationally considered. Also India attacked first on 6 September trying to take Lahore however failed miserably. Pakistan launch operations grand slam which was a 2 prong assault one into Kashmir and one into Rajasthan. Kashmir assault gave little result where as Rajasthan assault resulted India backtracking and calling for peace on which soviet and USA both agreed. India set its foot back first
@@zainjabir please read UN laws. How Kashmir is a disputed territory? Ruler of Kashmir joined India. So Pakistan violated the and changed the border. Kashmir and people wanted to be independent so why Pakistan attacked in 47. Same happened to Baluchistan. India could not help Baluch. India saved Bengalis a ,& Kashmiries and they are prospering than any Pakistani. Indian didn't want to enter Lahore and just stayed before Lahore until end. Pak Army had no option other than beg for ceasefire. Indian didn't want ceasefire and wanted pak to vacate POK but Shastry was kind and agreed to end the war. India captured 2000 sq miles of Pak land... Read 65 war. 65 war was the biggest mistake of Pak army. Indian army took revenge in 71
@@maquacr7014 Pak violated the international law by attacking India. India just responded. After partition, most of the good Muslim leaders and generals remained in India as they realized that fundamental of partition is wrong.. how can you say I can't live with you just because of religion. Please visit Indian side of Kashmir and talk to any Kashmiri. I lived there in late 80s when I was a kid. I am 50+ now and I have seen what Pak did to Kashmir. Worst happened to people of Baluch. India was able to sabe Bengalis. Yes, between 1990 and and 2019 there were human rights violation in Kashmir as per ISI plan. Modi had finished that.. Kashmir is back on development track, it will take time If you are not a Punjabi in Pakistan then prepare for a dogs life in Pakistan.. this was told to me by a Pakistani Hindu in US.
EXCELLENT and enrich the aviation history in any way you see it. No matter if it is dark or not, what it counts is the essence of history. THANKS. Waiting for the Part 2.
Nice video. I've always wondered what the rectangled stick is in front of the gun sight. There is a resses into which it fits. In this video It's showen. 14:06
I've been looking forward to this video for some time. A little known war, at least here in the West, involving some of the most interesting Cold War aircraft. Nicely done! 👍
I first heard of the F-104 fierce reputation was through an international student at an American university that I attended in 1985. He was a recent graduate cadet in the Pakistani AF and was an engineering major. He remarked especially of the air-radar that gave the Starfighter an advantage since most fighters at that time only relied on ground control for vectoring in on a contact.
The USS Enterprise is thrown back in time to Earth during the 1960s by the effects of a high-gravity "black star". Enterprise ends up in Earth's upper atmosphere and is picked up as a UFO on military radar. A U.S. Air Force F-104 interceptor, piloted by Captain John Christopher, is scrambled to identify the craft. Fearing an attack, Captain Kirk orders a tractor beam to be used on the jet, which tears the plane apart and transports Christopher aboard the Enterprise. Fearing Christopher could disrupt the timeline if returned to Earth, Kirk at first decides that the pilot must stay with the Enterprise. When Science Officer Spock later discovers that the pilot's as-yet-unborn son will play an important role in a future mission to Saturn, Kirk realizes he must return Christopher to Earth after all.
Tomorrow Is Yesterday" is the nineteenth episode of the first season of the American science fiction television series Star Trek. Written by D. C. Fontana and directed by Michael O'Herlihy, it first aired on January 26, 1967.[1] It was the first Star Trek episode to be written solely by a woman
Coming up soon! Well, plenty of viewers are not necessarily big aviation enthusiasts but just casual ones. Sometimes, when YT suggest such a topic they watch it but they also watch plenty of other things too.
Your videos are awesome, but (!!!) I would sugest turning down the volume of "world" sounds (eg. engine whine, cockpit interior etc.) just a little bit, especially the parts where you talk, because they tend to be over-whelming if used for longer periods of time. I hope you won't hold it against me, since I really enjoy the effort you put in all of your videos. Be well! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🙋🏼♂️🙋🏼♂️🍻🍻
Hey, thank you for that feedback! I do editing and watching using my headphones and background noises really don't seem too loud to me. But it might be different on other devices. What device do you watch on?
@@showtime112 I watch it mostly on my mobile, mostly with earbuds or full-size headphones. I noticed the whine (from jet engines mostly) is loudest when I watch videos and listen on phone's speaker, probably because it's mostly high-frequency and I sometimes put my finger over the speaker holes because everyone in the house complains about noise. To be honest, this is not tied exclusively to your videos, but I mostly watch videos with jet-planes, so.... 🤷🏼 For example, as I type this on my mobile phone I watch Ralfidude's video on my PC with my headphones on and the engine and RWR noises are constantly popping out, but if I didn't have my headphones on my wife would give me the "tongue soup" right away, for sure! 😁😉🤷🏼🙋🏼♂️
@@PappaBear_ytWell, I watched this particular video on my phone with medium volume. I really can't say that the voice was drowned by the background noises. In fact, they seem very low. But this could be quite individual, I sometimes watch my videos on TV and the voice feels slightly lower than on my headphones. But I haven't received any such comments in a long time.
@@showtime112 No, the voice volume is OK. It's just that high-pitch "background" jet-noise, I perceive it to be much louder than it obviously is. Our hearing is more sensitive to high-frequencies and I guess it could be also due to my age. 😁😉 Just something to nag about... But, lemme tell ya... When DCS Harrier first came out, I thought my head is gonna explode - its turbine-whine was just unbearable! So, go figure!... 🤷🏼🤔🤯 Anyway, since no-one else said anything on this topic, it must be my fail - just put me on ignore! 😁 Stay safe, buddy, and thanks for the replies! 🙋🏼♂️🍻🍻
Can you reenact Heniz Knoke's battle on April 29, 1944? Heiz describes this incident in Knoke's book. Heniz Knoke and James Cannon then talk on the floor. There are 7 P-47s after Heninz Knoke.
@@showtime112 Heniz Knoke describes this incident in his book. One of the most adventurous war memories. Share under the title German Ace Pilot people love adventure. This video has 1.8 million views. Erich Harman 8 P-51 fights alone th-cam.com/video/wvKySbedEjo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3d2fwwK3ZYoknbfP
These small regional wars reminds me a lot of the queesy single and campaign missions Janes Fighter's Anthology and U.S Navy Fighters. The improvision by the Pakistani pilots are stuff that looks like stuff that went straight into TV.
Interesting songs often attract tons of negative comments so I'm sometimes reluctant to use them. But I probably will from time to time :) Thank you for the feedback!
@@guaporeturns9472 Yes, the 1965 War feels especially bad in that aspect. It seems that even the next war between India and Pakistan in 1971 is an improvement.
Thank you Showtime112, excellent historical reenactment . The F104 was not really considered a dogfighter at all but more of an interceptor. However, it had great speed that it could use to flee the combat area if it needed to. Looking forward to part 2.
What about Middleton's F-104 which was shot down by B.B. Soni over the shark infested waters of the Rann of Kutch? I have been in touch with his family and would like to see this episode brought to life.
That is irritating, even to this day neither India, or Pakistan will come clean on each others kill-loss numbers, even with it being over 50 years later.
Pakistan had highly advanced military thanks to US support , especially in 1965 war, India did really well in the war despite that... Starfighters, Saber Jets Patton tanks ... you name it !
@@snd9826 Mig Entered in late 1965 on trial basis, it was used extensively in 71 war...for your information. Sabre at that time had AIM 9B sidewinder A2A missiles...best in the world! Indian had most of its airforce consisting of Vampires, Gnats and hunters ..who could not fight in night .... How Gnats matched with Sabres is almost mythological in aviation history...US too studied the success of such an old and low cost Gnat against Sabres .. Patton was most over hyped tank of its time US spread a rumor that its armor cannot be penetrated....main battle tank of India was M4 Sherman, which was a world war 2 machine, India had less number of centurion tanks...but used them with better tactics ! Hunter was an old ww2 aircraft inducted in 1940s...it lacked any night time fighting capability and any A2A missile.. And Pakistan defended ? What a distortion of history you have been taught....Pakistan launched operations in Kashmir, and in response to that India opened western theater in rajasthan.... it is not your defense it is your failure of strategy....you thought you can take advantage in kashmir as tank terrain was in your favor. Pakistan never imagined that India will open another front ... Anyways it is pointless to talk about books education or history in general with a Pakistani. Your own generals have written books on it, read them....Listen to what your intellectuals like Najam Sethi, KK Aziz, Hassan Nisar, Parvez Hoodbhoy say...
They also gave a 'Chakra' to ace Abhi for getting his fantastic rear kicked. MORAL: Don't fight the Pakistanis, just sit and take it! Easy awards. PS: IAF chiefs counsel their pilots 'DON'T GET INTO A DOGFIGHT WITH THE PAF'
not so much - Pakistan is a broke basket case now. Granted, its airforce is a bit larger - in theory - kthough some of the stuff is very old or just crap - like third hand IL 76's (from the soviets -> Ukraine -> Pakistan.
Pakistani with a squadron of F-16s block 52s are the only modern fighters rest are older blocks with somewhat modern JF-17s , rest are Mirage IIIs and F-7(chinese MiG-21) , J-10Cs are now being inducted. Indians have over 250 Su-30MKIs , 2 squadron of Rafales, 2 squadron of upgraded Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s
F-104 was practically a winged missile, and thus its capability for dog-fight was very poor. In aerial combat there is no use to zoom with a high speed, possibly only get the enemy pilot scared...?
The widow maker , more dangerous to its pilot than the enemy , it was designed for one thing only , to be capable of rapidly gaining height to intercept enemy aircraft , it is a cockpit on a missile with the glide characteristics of a block of concrete.
My apologizes for the dark scenes. They look pretty good on my original video but YT compression completely ruined them.
YT hates the dark...
@@spitefulwarthe dark....side😂
No problem showtime. The video is excellent.
@@spitefulwarIt really does. Which is why I'm reluctant to cover night combat. Even though WT displays them quite nicely and you can see everything well.
@@victorrodriguez2435 Thank you for the feedback!
As an Iranian i have mad respect for both Pakistani and indian pilots. They were really had hearts of lion
dude just a question, what do you think about the current geopolitical situation between your country and others in the middle east? just because I'm curious to hear the perspective of others
Support Aryans from ALLAH
We respect Iranian Pilots too especially the legendary F 14 Tomcat pilots of the Iranian Air Force and their bravery against the Iraqis
@@michelestefanini5466 unlike what most people think Iran will not going to start any major conflict with it's adversaries like Israel an USA. Wars need money and people's support and luckily Iran's government doesn't have either of them. All these macho man poses are just show offs for internal propaganda. But in reality Israel just demolished hamas and Israel will not stop with hamas. Houthis in Yemen and Hezbollah in Lebanon will be next and Iran will not move a muscle to support them
The Iranians are no light weight either. The Iranian fighter pilots held an upper hand over the Iraqis .
Outstanding!! Great coverage of this little know air conflict. And...the Starfighter is SUCH a cool looking jet!
Thank you so much for yet another donation! Yes, it's certainly an elegant design!
I was the radar Controller during both engagements. Seeing the 104 all Gnats broke and ran for their lives.
sikind went east, entered India, and when about 20 miles north of Amritsar, turned about, entered Pakistan
and landed at Pasrur. He was lost.
Thank you very much for sharing your personal experience! What you say matches with most descriptions I could find. Perhaps his navigation wasn't broken but he was low on fuel, probably exhausted from the dogfight and really worried about Starfighters. He could have easily made a mistake under such pressure.
There were many incidents in WW2 of aircraft landing on an enemy airfield by mistake. Weather and fatigue were usually the main contributing factors to navigation errors. So it's not surprising to see early jet aircraft, with navigation equipment similar to WW2 aircraft, making similar mistakes.
😂😂😂😂😂😅😅
BHARATS GNATS MADE MINCE MEAT OF YOUR SABERS DONT FORGET THAT
BHARATS GNATS MADE MINCE MEAT OF YOUR SABERS DONT FORGET THAT
Pakistani 104's had the J79-11 engine, giving it a better thrust-to-weight ratio than a "stock" F-104A
Yes, they were the most powerful F-104s when delivered.
Yup it was far superior than the Mysteres! @@showtime112
@@dante666jt : Except in turn rate, of course...
Analyst: "You were in a 4g negative dive with a Gnat?" Pilot: "I was inverted." Wingman: "Haram!"
BAAHAAHAAAHAAHAAAA, HARAAM AND CLASSIFIED! 😎👍 😆😂😂🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😆
Your timing is impeccable :) I was doing some research on Brijpal Singh Sikand earlier.
And it also marked the 70 years since the F-104's first flight. Although accidentally :)
Thank you, quite some effort in your video, deserves more clicks.
I'm glad you think so, thank you!
@6:10 : LOved the sound barrier break w/ the commentry of urgent assistance needed!
Thank you for appreciating that! That wasn't originally planned but it just 'appeared' during the editing.
Pakistani 104 units are some of the most successful users of the airframe, both in operational results and incident counts... they got really good at this...
They had a chance to actually fly it in combat, it was probably a factor.
They did not have any effect on the war.
@@max2008abhiThat's debatable. They had plenty of psychological effect which is hard to measure.
@@showtime112 in war the only thing that matters is victory. The Americans had better weapons in Afghanistan but still they lost. So the weapon had no effect on the war.
@@max2008abhi no podés opinar de guerra como un erudito, si nunca estuviste en una.
Fascinating. Well researched and well presented. Seems bizarre to think of the F104 “Widowmaker” dogfighting with the tiny part ground attack/trainer/Red Arrows display mount, the Gnat. Really enjoy these videos.
Thank you for the positive feedback! It seems that Starfighter's reputation had more of an impact than the actual capability in this conflict.
Another good video and I am looking forward to Part 2 (in spite of what the algorithm says).
Thank you! Part two coming out next Saturday.
Always enjoy you cotent, thank you very much! Will keep an eye out for part two.
Happy to hear it, thank you!
Amazing point to notice was the training and maintenance standards of the F104 squadron . . Pakistan received 12 airframes in 1960 or 1961 . . And at the start of 1965 war, PAF was flying all 12 airframes with not a single crash . . with most if not all pilots of the squadron had accumulated 800 to a 1000 flying hours on star fighters . . PAF lost just 02 star fighters during 1965 war, one during air combat due to collision and other during landing accident in a dust storm . . Between 1965 and 1971 war, there was a single plane crash . . And at the start of 1971 war PAF still had on the field 09 airframes with 08 in flying condition . . 09 Royal Jordanian Airforce Starfighters joined PAF during 1971 war bringing the total to 18 aircrafts . . PAF losses during 71 war were 04 starfighters (02 lost during air combat and 02 to AAA fire/ 02 belonging to PAF & 02 to RJAF) . . RJAF aircrafts returned after the war, leaving Pakistan with 06 functioning airframes, which were all retired in 1972 . . 02 of these airframes are stationed at PAF Museum and the other 04 are performing guard duties at various PAF bases . . Compare this with the attrition rates of other users such as USAF, Germans or the Turkish Airforces . . PAF really rocked . . 👍👍👍
Thank you for this summary. I had no idea when the Starfighters were retired and how many of the originals were on strength when they retired. Nor I was aware of the contribution from the Royal Jordanian Airforce in 1971.
@@lelandhetrick205 you are welcomed . . Starfighter war record was also not bad considering the small numbers held with PAF . . In 65 war, Starfighters were responsible for forced landings of 02 Indian aircrafts, first an Oregon during Kutch Crisis and later a Gnat just threw days before start of actual 65 war . . During the war, Starfighters shot down 02 Mysteres and a Canberra with another Mystere and a Canberra as probable, while loosing a single Starfighter due to collision during combat . . During 71 war, Starfighters shot down a Gnat, a SU-7, a Canberra and an Indian Navy Alize, while destroying 02 aircrafts on ground during strafing and loosing 02 aircrafts in dog fight against Mig-21s and 02 to ground fire . .
@@lelandhetrick205 Reason for writing all this is to justify what a great aircraft Starfighter was . . I don't know why and how USAF and Germans lost so many aircrafts during accidents or due to pilot errors . . As in the hands of PAF pilots, Starfighter retained an almost impeccable record . . Starfighter is really a joy to eyes . . More sexier than the sexiest women ever to grace the earth . . 😘😘😘
@@iftikharfaridy2974 The rate of shoot-downs and losses of the F-104 is one of the best in the world, demonstrating that despite being outdated, it was a tough nut to crack that even after having lost one of these to the MiG-21 in 1971, the fighters The Indians had great problems against the Starfighters, which together with the Mirage IIIEP fighters were the nightmare of the Indian squadrons.
Without a doubt, the F-104 and its unit in combat are undoubtedly one of the best, the F-104 is even already in the collective imagination of many as the image of the PAF fighters during that time.
@@iftikharfaridy2974 It is well known that the Germans blamed the accidents on the F-104, but the problem was that many, as always, never look at the reasons. Practically, the Germans used the Starfighter for something that had not been designed and to make matters worse, almost all of their squadrons were made up of novice and inexperienced pilots who in the hands of this piece of plane crashed as if they were descendants of the Bf-109.
Literally, the F-104 pilot team in Germany had few flight hours and their experience in the demanding interceptor rewarded them with disasters.
The F-104 is an excellent combat aircraft IF you know how to handle it, with adequate training and pilots with good qualities, in the Pakistani service which was a "third world" air force it was one of the best on the entire continent and the performance of These were among the best, the accident rate was practically zero in their total operational life and despite being few, their impact on the region was quite strong that led their neighbors (Iran and India) to acquire new aircraft such as the F- 4 or MiG-21 not to be left behind.
This shows that they were efficient and powerful interceptor fighters. And it completely dispels the myth of the Widow Maker. I remember a Pakistani who had a relative flying the F-104 who called the fighter the "most difficult horse to ride, but once tamed it was simply unbeatable."
Thank you from my heart for this superb video.
The nighttime edition is one of a kind
Along with the background music.
A really class act.
Thank you for the elaborate feedback!
Some creative filming to conceal the fact that the Gnat is not in War Thunder. It really does need to be in game.
A good video.
Thank you! Yes, it would be great if they added the Gnat. India needs at least a sub tree if not a full, independent one. Sure, most of it would be copy-paste but several unique airplanes could be added and Gaijin could attract a whole bunch of new players.
Your videos on dogfights and aviation heroes are simply awesome! Your dedication to sharing these stories is truly inspiring. Keep up the fantastic work!
Thank you very much! I sure intend to keep doing this.
@@showtime112 Looking forward to every new video! Keep soaring high with your content!
Awesome video! I didn't really know too much about this war.
I'm going to go look it up.
Can't wait for part 2!
Thank you very much for the feedback, part two is coming out soon!
Another informative and well presented video
Thank you very much for the positive feedback!
Did you use the DCS mod or MSFS?
@@agruitaIt's War Thunder.
The video seems fine to me in terms of darkness. Love the varied content you produce on different aircraft and conflicts around the world. I always thought the F-104 was a beautiful plane but didn't seem like a very successful fighter. The one Norway still has in operation has great videos on youtube.
You should see the original video :) Anyway, I'm grateful for your feedback! Yes, you could say that in the end, F-104 underperformed.
I read the Royal Norwegian Air Force operated 44 F-104. It lost 6 of them.
Compared to West Germany's Bundesluftwaffe, which lost 269 out of its 916, this ratio seems low. Is there any explanation?
Awesome as usual. Such a wild era of history between these two countries.
Thank you for the comment! Yes, those two were at it all of the time in that period.
Excellent stuff as always!
Thank you very much!
The F-104 STARFIGHTER is very good for interception at high altitude, its vertical acceleration send it to the stars.
But in a dogfight at low altitude with low speed, it's like driving a stone, it doesn't turn like the MIG-25 or the MIG-31, it is not a easy thing to realize.
To obtain a victory against a DASSAULT MYSTERE, it's a great performance even if you use a sidewinder !!!
Yes, that thing wasn't exactly a super dogfighter. From what I tried in WT, going vertical gives it the only chance.
Salut Jeanne. En fait les F104 ont été obtenus en échange de utilisation de la base de Peshawar pour utilisation du U2A par les ricains pour espionner les rouges.
Suite vidéo sur F1EQ, j'en apprend un max sur cette version plus performant que les premiers 2000RDM. Un colonel de la 30ec a été mis minable en 3 combat par un grade irakien pilote expert sur mig21 qui n'avait que 13hdv sur F1EQ2 et du simulateur. La rumeur dit que il a été relevé du commandement de la 30😮😮😮
En décembre 71, un F104 à été abattu par mig21, tiré au 23mm à plus de 600m de distance. Piloteh éjecte au dessus de la mer et disparu. L'endroit étant infesté de..requins
@@dominiqueroudier9401
Les relations entre le Pakistan et les USA étaient au beau fixe à l'époque, maintenant c'est plus compliqué car les chinois sont entrés dans la danse avec la création du JF-17.
Le 2000 RDM, technologiquement parlant n'était pas tout à fait au point dès sa mise en service en 84 dans nos armées, remplacé vite fait bien fait par le 2000 RDI, couple bien plus performant.
Les irakiens faisaient la guerre, donc ils étaient plus performants que nos gars.
C'est logique.
Il y a la dernière vidéo sur clan des officiers, c'est l'EPILOGUE, SNIF !!!
Par contre nouvelle série à venir, l'histoire d'un pilote allemand sur ME-109 en 1943, série intitulée DERNIERE RAFALE, il y a le lien et la présentation de la nouvelle série. C'est cool !!!
@@jeannezehner9450 je continue la lecture du bouquin du F1EQ un peu tous les matins. Yaura des anecdotes vu qu'il fera mieux que le super étendard et même camouflage que lui.
Je vais de ce pas au clan des officiers
The jar was shaken by Britain and we are still fighting among ourselves
Sadly 😞
It was really nice to watch. Very interesting was the usage of f-104 as improvised recon plane (and the applied method)
I'm glad you liked it. Yes, that was a pretty bizarre use of the F-104 but a fun one.
Amazing Footage!!!
What's next, a Mervyn Middlecoat story that'll have you clutching your hands?
Thank you for the comment! Middlecoat will be mentioned in the next video but I won't reveal any more :)
I Second that.
@showtime112- Waiting for it. I am personally involved in that research, as you can see from my comments.
PAF always had an edge over IAF due to US support. IAF had to fight hard to stop PAF. Pakistan lost 1965 war, they started the war to take Kashmir by force but couldn't take an inch. Indian part of Kashmir is much more developed now
PAF had technological edge but IAF had numerical edge.
1965 war is a stalemate. India violated International boundary first.
Indian side of Kashmir has a much worse track record of human rights violations too.
attacking Kashmir is not illegal according to international law. However defined border land like Punjab borders are internationally considered. Also India attacked first on 6 September trying to take Lahore however failed miserably. Pakistan launch operations grand slam which was a 2 prong assault one into Kashmir and one into Rajasthan. Kashmir assault gave little result where as Rajasthan assault resulted India backtracking and calling for peace on which soviet and USA both agreed. India set its foot back first
@@zainjabir please read UN laws. How Kashmir is a disputed territory? Ruler of Kashmir joined India. So Pakistan violated the and changed the border. Kashmir and people wanted to be independent so why Pakistan attacked in 47. Same happened to Baluchistan. India could not help Baluch. India saved Bengalis a ,& Kashmiries and they are prospering than any Pakistani.
Indian didn't want to enter Lahore and just stayed before Lahore until end. Pak Army had no option other than beg for ceasefire. Indian didn't want ceasefire and wanted pak to vacate POK but Shastry was kind and agreed to end the war. India captured 2000 sq miles of Pak land... Read 65 war. 65 war was the biggest mistake of Pak army. Indian army took revenge in 71
@@maquacr7014 Pak violated the international law by attacking India. India just responded. After partition, most of the good Muslim leaders and generals remained in India as they realized that fundamental of partition is wrong.. how can you say I can't live with you just because of religion. Please visit Indian side of Kashmir and talk to any Kashmiri. I lived there in late 80s when I was a kid. I am 50+ now and I have seen what Pak did to Kashmir. Worst happened to people of Baluch. India was able to sabe Bengalis.
Yes, between 1990 and and 2019 there were human rights violation in Kashmir as per ISI plan. Modi had finished that.. Kashmir is back on development track, it will take time
If you are not a Punjabi in Pakistan then prepare for a dogs life in Pakistan.. this was told to me by a Pakistani Hindu in US.
@@maquacr7014 HR issue in POK
th-cam.com/video/PSjsX149pDI/w-d-xo.html
EXCELLENT and enrich the aviation history in any way you see it. No matter if it is dark or not, what it counts is the essence of history. THANKS. Waiting for the Part 2.
Thank you for all these supportive comments! Second part will be there before you know it!
A great video, many thanks.
Thank you for your comment!
The paf may have received only 12 airframes but they have utilized it to the fullest in 1 decade
Great video. Awaiting part 2
Thank you! Coming up in a few days.
That inverted photo recon manouver was just a ball buster.✌
I wonder what the Indian AAA operators must have been thinking 😁
Great video as always. Looking forward to part 2, a bit sad to see there's no Gnats or Ajeets in any sim so we will not see them on your videos.
Thank you very much! Yes, I wish we had Gnats. But there's hope, I'm sure Gaijin will introduce them to WT at some point.
@@showtime112 Will love to see your videps with them.
Very interesting! I will look for part two surely.
Thank you again for a positive comment!
Nice video.
I've always wondered what the rectangled stick is in front of the gun sight. There is a resses into which it fits.
In this video It's showen. 14:06
Kudos for covering less covered non western conflicts like this man
They all need to be covered, thank you for watching!
I've been looking forward to this video for some time. A little known war, at least here in the West, involving some of the most interesting Cold War aircraft. Nicely done! 👍
I've been planning to do this video for a while too. And they are interesting aircraft indeed. Thank you for the comment!
I first heard of the F-104 fierce reputation was through an international student at an American university that I attended in 1985. He was a recent graduate cadet in the Pakistani AF and was an engineering major. He remarked especially of the air-radar that gave the Starfighter an advantage since most fighters at that time only relied on ground control for vectoring in on a contact.
Thank you for the video 😊
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Eagerly awaiting on the second part of the story!
Thank you! It's coming up soon!
The unknown air combat India and Pakistan.
Details of this conflict are rather unknown outside the two countries involved, I agree.
Quite an amazing combination of aircraft involved 👍 thanks for the info . ✌️👍
Thank you for watching!
Awesome video as always
I'm happy to hear it, thank you!
F-104 were very delicate !
One broke up in the Enterprise’s tractor Beam and the US Force pilot had to be beamed up to the spaceship !
The USS Enterprise is thrown back in time to Earth during the 1960s by the effects of a high-gravity "black star". Enterprise ends up in Earth's upper atmosphere and is picked up as a UFO on military radar.
A U.S. Air Force F-104 interceptor, piloted by Captain John Christopher, is scrambled to identify the craft. Fearing an attack, Captain Kirk orders a tractor beam to be used on the jet, which tears the plane apart and transports Christopher aboard the Enterprise.
Fearing Christopher could disrupt the timeline if returned to Earth, Kirk at first decides that the pilot must stay with the Enterprise. When Science Officer Spock later discovers that the pilot's as-yet-unborn son will play an important role in a future mission to Saturn, Kirk realizes he must return Christopher to Earth after all.
Tomorrow Is Yesterday" is the nineteenth episode of the first season of the American science fiction television series Star Trek. Written by D. C. Fontana and directed by Michael O'Herlihy, it first aired on January 26, 1967.[1] It was the first Star Trek episode to be written solely by a woman
That was a serious oversight by Kelly Johnson, not making the airplane suitable for tractor beams 😁
The F-104 going up to intercept the Enterprise is my all time favorite film sequence.
Growing up I wanted to also wear the orange flight suit .
Unfortunately all I got was an orange jump suit from the sheriff!
Great video as well.. keep it up
I will, thank you for your support!
Can't wait for the next chapter....those who drop the vision after the first vid must be crazy!!!
Coming up soon! Well, plenty of viewers are not necessarily big aviation enthusiasts but just casual ones. Sometimes, when YT suggest such a topic they watch it but they also watch plenty of other things too.
Good work @showtime112. Need to see more on 1965 indopak aerial conflicts from you
Thank you very much! The conflict will be covered in some future videos.
@@showtime112It will be great to watch another video just like this
The F-104 was a thing of beauty, but a very specialised aircraft.
Yes, I agree.
82ND AIRBORNE
One hour ago...this video was born. I'm glad I watched...
I'm glad you watched too! :)
Excellent graphics
Thank you for the feedback!
Well made documentry no bias. Well done
Thank you very much, I'm glad you feel this way.
Your videos are awesome, but (!!!) I would sugest turning down the volume of "world" sounds (eg. engine whine, cockpit interior etc.) just a little bit, especially the parts where you talk, because they tend to be over-whelming if used for longer periods of time.
I hope you won't hold it against me, since I really enjoy the effort you put in all of your videos.
Be well! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻🙋🏼♂️🙋🏼♂️🍻🍻
Hey, thank you for that feedback! I do editing and watching using my headphones and background noises really don't seem too loud to me. But it might be different on other devices. What device do you watch on?
@@showtime112 I watch it mostly on my mobile, mostly with earbuds or full-size headphones. I noticed the whine (from jet engines mostly) is loudest when I watch videos and listen on phone's speaker, probably because it's mostly high-frequency and I sometimes put my finger over the speaker holes because everyone in the house complains about noise.
To be honest, this is not tied exclusively to your videos, but I mostly watch videos with jet-planes, so.... 🤷🏼
For example, as I type this on my mobile phone I watch Ralfidude's video on my PC with my headphones on and the engine and RWR noises are constantly popping out, but if I didn't have my headphones on my wife would give me the "tongue soup" right away, for sure! 😁😉🤷🏼🙋🏼♂️
@@PappaBear_ytWell, I watched this particular video on my phone with medium volume. I really can't say that the voice was drowned by the background noises. In fact, they seem very low. But this could be quite individual, I sometimes watch my videos on TV and the voice feels slightly lower than on my headphones. But I haven't received any such comments in a long time.
@@showtime112 No, the voice volume is OK. It's just that high-pitch "background" jet-noise, I perceive it to be much louder than it obviously is. Our hearing is more sensitive to high-frequencies and I guess it could be also due to my age. 😁😉 Just something to nag about...
But, lemme tell ya... When DCS Harrier first came out, I thought my head is gonna explode - its turbine-whine was just unbearable!
So, go figure!... 🤷🏼🤔🤯
Anyway, since no-one else said anything on this topic, it must be my fail - just put me on ignore! 😁
Stay safe, buddy, and thanks for the replies! 🙋🏼♂️🍻🍻
The former British India Air Force divided itself after partition and years later fought against each other.
What about the Beechcraft which was shot down by the Sabre jets on 19/9/65 over the Rann of Kutch?
Interesting. As always, not a lot of collaboration in the outcomes of engagements with these two parties!
Thank you! That's true. Wait till you see part 2 😁
Can you reenact Heniz Knoke's battle on April 29, 1944? Heiz describes this incident in Knoke's book. Heniz Knoke and James Cannon then talk on the floor. There are 7 P-47s after Heninz Knoke.
Probably. I'll check it out in more detail.
@@showtime112
Heniz Knoke describes this incident in his book.
One of the most adventurous war memories.
Share under the title German Ace Pilot
people love adventure.
This video has 1.8 million views.
Erich Harman 8 P-51 fights alone
th-cam.com/video/wvKySbedEjo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3d2fwwK3ZYoknbfP
At least 8 lost - and 6 of those crashes - out of a dozen airframes. Not a great track record.
always enjoyable thanks.
Thank you for the positive feedback!
Thank you looking forward to part 2.
Thank you for watching, part 2 coming up soon!
Can u give exact number of air craft losses sustained by both India and Pakistan in 1965 and 1971.
A very nice video , these jets are now museum pieces but were much scarring for India at that time.
Thank you for the comment! Yes, just operating the Starfighter in the 1965 War gave Pakistan a big psychological boost.
awesome work
Thank you very much! Don't miss part two!
@@showtime112 have you made a video on MM Alam who had a world record of destroying Indian planes in one battle
ALLAH PAK PAK Army ko sada Kamyabian kamrani Ata farmaya Ameeeeen g best Regards hafiz khizar gondal
😂😂😂
These small regional wars reminds me a lot of the queesy single and campaign missions Janes Fighter's Anthology and U.S Navy Fighters. The improvision by the Pakistani pilots are stuff that looks like stuff that went straight into TV.
I wonder if any American pilots flew in Pakistan in these sabres or f-104s. Now that would be an interesting story
I couldn't find any info on that. Which doesn't mean it never happened.
Well that wasn't the most interesting Showtime 112 opening song ever that's for sure. But a good video followed.
Interesting songs often attract tons of negative comments so I'm sometimes reluctant to use them. But I probably will from time to time :) Thank you for the feedback!
The only plane that surrendered to PAF is still a trophy in Lahore
Which simulator you used?
This video is made in War Thunder. Others use DCS World mostly.
@@showtime112 i suggest you to try Falcon bms also
Aye watan to salamat ta qyqmat rahy Aameen
Good, i like this❤
Thank you for the comment!
Nice!
Thanks T!
Hey! Is this DCS?
No, it's War Thunder
@@showtime112 wooooooooooow....
Please read the book 'Six to Gehenna'. Endorsed by the Marshal of the Indian Air Force.
Thanks for the suggestion, I've put it in my Amazon list.
So apparently neither side has ever lost a plane in an engagement with the other side😂
Spoiler alert, in part two there will actually be one shootdown where both sides agree. But also some where they don't 😁
@@showtime112 Yeah I know there are time when the reports/claims from both sides agree , but in this conflict it seemed even less than usual. I get it
@@guaporeturns9472 Yes, the 1965 War feels especially bad in that aspect. It seems that even the next war between India and Pakistan in 1971 is an improvement.
1965 F 104 kill is recorded as the lowest kill by the AIM SIDEWINDER. The First kill of the 1965 war.
Thank you Showtime112, excellent historical reenactment . The F104 was not really considered a dogfighter at all but more of an interceptor. However, it had great speed that it could use to flee the combat area if it needed to. Looking forward to part 2.
Thank you very much for the positive feedback!
A good story telling. NICE FOR ears toxic for brain.
What about Middleton's F-104 which was shot down by B.B. Soni over the shark infested waters of the Rann of Kutch?
I have been in touch with his family and would like to see this episode brought to life.
That one has been covered a couple of years ago, check out the 'Indo-Pakistani Wars' playlist.
How'd you get the picture? I was inverted. 😂
With no flares, starfighters dont stand a chance against heat seeking missiles while using the afterburner 😂
👍
Hvala!
As a pakistani, I can confirm both sides 99.99% of the time disagree
That is irritating, even to this day neither India, or Pakistan will come clean on each others kill-loss numbers, even with it being over 50 years later.
You will be even more irritated after watching the second part 🤣🤣🤣
How come they can fly these but can't do the posted speed limit in their Prius?
Pakistan had highly advanced military thanks to US support , especially in 1965 war, India did really well in the war despite that...
Starfighters, Saber Jets Patton tanks ... you name it !
@@snd9826 Mig Entered in late 1965 on trial basis, it was used extensively in 71 war...for your information. Sabre at that time had AIM 9B sidewinder A2A missiles...best in the world! Indian had most of its airforce consisting of Vampires, Gnats and hunters ..who could not fight in night .... How Gnats matched with Sabres is almost mythological in aviation history...US too studied the success of such an old and low cost Gnat against Sabres ..
Patton was most over hyped tank of its time US spread a rumor that its armor cannot be penetrated....main battle tank of India was M4 Sherman, which was a world war 2 machine, India had less number of centurion tanks...but used them with better tactics !
Hunter was an old ww2 aircraft inducted in 1940s...it lacked any night time fighting capability and any A2A missile..
And Pakistan defended ? What a distortion of history you have been taught....Pakistan launched operations in Kashmir, and in response to that India opened western theater in rajasthan.... it is not your defense it is your failure of strategy....you thought you can take advantage in kashmir as tank terrain was in your favor.
Pakistan never imagined that India will open another front ...
Anyways it is pointless to talk about books education or history in general with a Pakistani.
Your own generals have written books on it, read them....Listen to what your intellectuals like Najam Sethi, KK Aziz, Hassan Nisar, Parvez Hoodbhoy say...
Plz also make video about pathankot strike led by Sajjad Haider
Thank you for the suggestion!
Please make video of Indian Gnat surrendered to a Pakistani F104 in 1965 and now kept as a war trophy in Karachi
Not yet possible, Gnat isn't available in any flight sim that I use. But hopefully, it becomes available in the future.
They also gave a 'Chakra' to ace Abhi for getting his fantastic rear kicked.
MORAL: Don't fight the Pakistanis, just sit and take it! Easy awards.
PS: IAF chiefs counsel their pilots 'DON'T GET INTO A DOGFIGHT WITH THE PAF'
F-104 was known as Lockheed's flying coffin. So it's incredible that Pakistan managed to retain almost all of their fleet in this war.
Possibly because they didn't use them for the purpose where Luftwaffe suffered most of its losses - low level bombing.
❤
Thank you for the comment!
When it comes to airforce, Pakistan has always been better equipped than indian air force . Even till today the equation is same.
not so much - Pakistan is a broke basket case now. Granted, its airforce is a bit larger - in theory - kthough some of the stuff is very old or just crap - like third hand IL 76's (from the soviets -> Ukraine -> Pakistan.
😂😂😂😂
Pakistani with a squadron of F-16s block 52s are the only modern fighters rest are older blocks with somewhat modern JF-17s , rest are Mirage IIIs and F-7(chinese MiG-21) , J-10Cs are now being inducted. Indians have over 250 Su-30MKIs , 2 squadron of Rafales, 2 squadron of upgraded Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s
A BS air force with skill less pilots is what IAF is.The idiot above forgetting majority is Mig21 obsolete fighters which crash every now and then…lol
Haha delusional
PAF had air superiority Kudos!
F-104 was practically a winged missile, and thus its capability for dog-fight was very poor. In aerial combat there is no use to zoom with a high speed, possibly only get the enemy pilot scared...?
IN 1965 ONE MYSTER FROM INDIA TOOK OUT A STAR FIGHTER BY COLLIDING ITSELF TO IT INDIAN PILOT GOT MAHAVEER CHKRA AS GALANTORY AWARD
That story will be covered in part 2. Spoiler alert, there are multiple versions :)
Seeing these F-104's flying inverted must have looked even weirder than in the video...
Great video by the way 👍👍
Who know what the Indians on the ground were thinking about that :) Thanks for the comment!
Patrick Earl, AKA “The Duke of Earl”…
Power to India!!!
No.
I think a cool video would be to cover the Indian Gnats
I agree. Sadly, Gnat isn't featured in any of the simulations I use. Maybe they'll introduce it someday.
Indian pilots nicknamed the F 104 "badmash" - scoundrel.
The widow maker , more dangerous to its pilot than the enemy , it was designed for one thing only , to be capable of rapidly gaining height to intercept enemy aircraft , it is a cockpit on a missile with the glide characteristics of a block of concrete.
So; the f16s that Pakistan acquired more than 20 years later, didn't have radar; yet, the Starfighters acquired in 1961 did. .... ( Interesting fact )