Would tux with a frown be too much like a Mac? Smiling tux feels like he is mocking me after he killed my computer. Now we must argue about the logo's facial expressions for 8 pages!
Kernel panics aren't really something to be happy about. I think it would be better if Tux was frowning, fallen over, or dazed, and maybe add a hammer/hard hat too? I'm not sure if they plan to support drawing images though. It would be really funny if people started ricing their BSOD for r/unixp with custom images.
Perhaps it should be a black screen with a command line penguin using a maritime telescope to survey each software conflict and their respective troubleshooting instructions.
There was a screenshot of a tweet going around recently which said something like “for every sci-fi robot that goes evil, there is an engineer that specifically installed red LEDs in the eyes for just that circumstance”. Only one person I saw responded saying that of course, that’s an important safety feature, the alternative is an evil robot without a visible indication.
The only correct color here is green. Specifically a green blob with two hands, a tongue sticking out, and the text: "DON'T PANIC! And make sure you know where your towel is."
I think the only reasonable solution is to have panic messages be displayed on a pulsating multicolored screen. If it doesn't induce epileptic seizures I can't really consider it an actual kernel panic, it's merely a minor kernel dismay...
“what about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project.” “Ah,” said the marketing girl, “well, we’re having a little difficulty there.” “Difficulty?” exclaimed Ford. “Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It’s the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!” The marketing girl soured him with a look “All right, Mr. Wiseguy,” she said, “you’re so clever, you tell us what color it should be.” ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Obviously the most important feature is for the Linux BSOD to appear for only half a second and with _barely_ enough information given that would give you the slightest of hope of solving it (but not enough to _actually_ solve it). And of course needs a QR code to a completely useless article.
On windows it’s very easy to read out the contents of all past bluescreens with a tool. On Linux I hope it is going to the usual logs. Can’t remember when I had a kernel panic the last time on Linux. Too long ago. On Windows all bluescreens I had were because of faulty graphics drivers.
This video still didn't explain whether we could have a brown screen of death. It's really important to my workflow to know when the kernel craps itself.
Geniunely I prefer the 'Blue' in BSOD, as it's sooo outstandingly 'my screen never has this much of THAT blue ever', that I noticed instantly. I get it you don't want to copy windows modern BSOD, but good lord wouldn't you want to learn from MS and their past BSOD where were all soo helpful and got used to quickly find the majority of issues, with only some being sort of related crashes because of another unrelated crash (but gathering several BSODs and the system behavior was & still is very valuable consumer information for troubleshooting) Windows BSOD are 'as generic' now because ... they kind of have to be really, given the insane variety of people it serves & HW it sits on. They provide most the time safe & easy to do troubleshooting tips... for even those who can't read a stack trace to save their lives.
In this case it's just a bunch of dumbasses on a forum, at least. I went into the video expecting actual developers to be bike-shedding the feature and was pleasantly surprised.
I feel like a script to make the colour different every single time in a randomized way would be great but I also feel like I'd forget about it by the next time the stack crashed and be like "...why is this taupe?"
Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy: a useless group couldn't invent the wheel, because they couldn't agree what colour it should be. Thank you for reminding me of that.
Funny thing there are two reason's why the BSOD screen is blue: - Lowest common denominator for video hardware that NT could run on supported White on Blue - The developer who wrote it(John Vert) had a MIPS RISC development PC which by default was White on Blue on the firmware. Btw you can change the color using the "Not my fault" utility by sysinternals on windows.
That maybe true, but I think it goes far - far before windows was even a thing. White on Blue was the microsoft trademark on all their MSDOS apps from the start. As it was for a lot of Text mode apps back in the era. The thing is that colored backgrounds over white text made possible to highlight words with real "bold" character, by changing to the brighter white. Of all the basic colors, the only one pleasan to the eyes was the blue. So that was it. Windows installers were white on blue as the ms dos installer, and all the other apps. Anything "text" mode was white over blue. BSOD just followed the same theme.
@@erinw6120 Exactly, at that time, when most people used amber or green text only monitors, white over blue was how you show off your expensive color monitor :) (I associate white/blue with the first AT, maybe was when all this started?)
I disagree. It's only true if you're from the windows world. In Linux, the "something is wrong" color is black, because that's the TTY background color.
Perhaps the Linux BSOD can become the Black Screen Of Diagnostics, featuring a command line penguin looking through its trusty maritime telescope to inspect each inherent software conflict and the respective troubleshooting instructions thereof.
In addition to configurable color they should add a "surfer dude" text option where it conveys the error message in surf slang and other "extreme sports" so it can just say "Please restart yo!"
If there are any football/soccer related messages I will not be responsible for my actions. And it will be very expensive in terms of replacing hardware. [I hail from England. I am not a football fan. I am now an ex-pat. You can connect the dots.]
I've been running Linux distros regularly for around 7 years or so, and I've only ever seen maybe 3 kernel panic messages. And like you said, I didn't do anything with it. Rebooted and continued as normal. Barring some unforeseeable catastrophe, I have no personal stake in this change and can't imagine that it will reduce anyone's experience in a meaningful way. Still, a standard command line output just _feels_ aesthetically nicer in my opinion. The whole BSOD thing just makes me think of Microsoft.
I'm thinking from the perspective of newbies - I think blue is actually good. Sure, black is nice, but if newbies see a terminal-like screen, they'll just blank out and panic. At least if it's blue, it suggests that the OS still has things under control, the computer isn't damaged
I think it's important that the BSOD is brown Text on green Background - that way you know your system just shat itself in the forest. It also looks terrible.
DRM crashing bringing up the kernel vt would 💯 be a valid solution for a lot of peoole. But the problem is that right now, all that happens is that your system completely locks up and *shows you nothing.* As Brodie says in the video repeatedly, people don't realize this, because the kernel almost never panics for most Linux users.
This "don't use blue" mentality is why Gimp keeps struggling with adoption - they go out of their way to not be proprietary-like as possible to user's detriment. Congratulations you solved no problem and also caused confusion and delay
@@turtlefrog369 which is the point. These people think intuitive easy to use and standardized UX or COLORS are proprietary THEREFORE we must make the exact opposite everywhere everytime. Makes no sense and that's the point.
@@Mordecrox To be fair, some companies have tried (not sure if they succeeded) with slapping their UI designs with an "intellectual property of us" sticker, to prevent their competitors from using it. Not sure how likely an open source project is of getting sued because of that, though. My uninformed intuition tells me it's a pretty negligible likelihood, but as I said, I don't really know. EDIT: Might have been patents and not intellectual property, was a while ago I read about it.
I'm not at ease with the idea of a Beige Screen of Death. I think a Burgundy Screen of Death is my favorite. I'd prefer a Brass Screen of Death over a Bronze Screen of Death, but a Beryl Screen of Death would be better. And as many people have already said, a Brown Screen of Death is a complete no-go. 🤡
To continue the dance of color -- IMHO if the VT is white on black, a kpanic being the same color is too similar to the default to be simple to identify (imagine a class of computers), so blue is better than black and since we have a cultural expectation of what white text on blue background means on a screen blue also satisfies POLS... Thus, I'd say a BSOD actually has two functions: saying that things went wrong (and how), and to be easily identifiable. But, for those people who use Linux as "not a windows", yeah, I understand why blue is worse than any other color =)
as someone who encountered frequent kernel panics when doing weird, or even just normal gaming things, please yes give me information, no, i don't care what it looks like
Lmfaoooo this is hysterical to watch unfold. In all seriousness though. In more than a decade of running various Linux desktops and servers, I may have seen a kernel panic once, which was hard to tell because my computer froze, my wife spilled coffee on my Desktop which some landed on my GPU and I think caused the thing to crash the display driver. Ironically, it survived after drying it out with some paper towels. EVGA's build quality is / was astounding.
This is why Linux desktop will never rise. Everyone complain on anything so nothing useful is done.(snaps,Wayland,bsod)and the most popular app and games are just emulation of windows(proton or wine).
On a more serious note, I see no downsides to this. I got some BSOD trauma from earlier Windows versions where they popped up often due to driver problems or other things but, like you said, they are only the messenger and at least at some point they became useful in trying to troubleshoot issues.
Who remembers the "BSODomizer"? A little remote controlled box you put inline between the victim's video card & monitor. You click a button on the remote and it would display a fake BSOD.
What I don't like nowadays is the tendency of software in general to hide information from the users. Any BSOD, no matter the color 🤦♂️, should give the essential minimal information (if possible) of what triggered the error. Of course there are the LOGs to investigate, but the BSOD could always give the first step for investigation, for the chance you can't see the LOGs later...
As silly as this colour debate is, the amber screen of death suggestion seems like a great choice to me. I might configure the system to display like that once this gets released on Arch. This definitely is a great addition, but the complaint's of Windows's (modern) BSODs not being verbose enough is valid, gauging by the ones I experienced. Though even this is a rarity, both my Linux systems randomly crash more than the family Windows laptop.
If the kernel panics, it should dump to a kernel log. If it panics before the graphical interface starts, you get a kconsole dump. If you get a kernel panic, you are pretty screwed because there's not a lot of info on debugging kernel panics.
My system has a problem where every few weeks the compositor goes bananas and the screen freezes, nothing is responding and even vt is inaccessible - but I can still ssh into the computer. Knowing that it isn't a kernel panic because I would see a kernel panic screen is a huge improvement.
@@chri-k of course, but from outside the machine, with no network, it's hard to distinguish between the input and out being dead and actual panic - without the DRM panic feature.
The reason that people of a certain age are more concerned with the BSOD rather than, as you astutely pointed out several times, is that Win3,xx - XP BSOD'ed _alot_. This is one area that MS has vastly improved in. Take a 15 yro from today where its either crap applications or bad RAM stick and go back to 1998 they would lose their mind, just because all the troubleshooting skills of today are virtually worthless. The BSOD is literally PTSD for some folks. In fact this is what got me onto Slackware back in 1995 and Red Hat pseudo-permanently in 2000 (when 2.6 kernel dropped in beta, had to have it due to hardware I was waiting on a kmod for). People don't appreciate how much better things have been on the MS from since Vista (ought to be with a 10 year dev cycle). Still won't use MS or Apple anymore.
The NTs (at least NT4 and later) were all pretty stable for me as long as the hardware was good and you didn't have any bad drivers. The 16-bit and hybrid versions, definitely crash-prone due to lack of proper memory protection.
I have seen quite a few kernel panics. There are two places where it seems to happen. 1) When I am shutting down Linux Mint the very last thing the process tries to do is turn off the power. For whatever reason, sometimes the power doesn't go off and instead the code gets to the kernel panic state. I suspect this is a hardware issue on the PC involved. 2) On Puppy Linux, you can make your own version by "remastering". If the result of "remastering" is a squash file system that doesn't fit into RAM, you get a kernel panic.
well, I've got my first kernel panic cases last week on my laptop, something battery related. But again, I'am on an Arch-based(😎) system, so the problem went away after a couple of updates. But still, having a meaningful message would've been nice. Plus, I'd prefer it to be white-on-blue screen, for nostalgic reasons
My first thought was literally "ew, blue... reminds me of Windows, can we change that pls?" Typical accidental Linux PR disaster lol, glad to have error messages finally!
Obviously the correct color is in fact out a single color the error info encapsulated in a black rectangle that sits on top of a TV test card/pattern Also, a facepalm gif background would be fun too
The most hilarious thing in the Linux space to me is how people think that if windows does a thing then Linux has to either not do that thing or do it in a completely different way. The only considerations for if Linux should do a thing the way Windows does a thing or not is if it's a good idea to do it that way and if interoperability with the way Windows does it is important. Is it a bad idea? Don't copy it. Is it a good idea? Do copy it.
it's still a BSOD, just "Black Screen Of Death" the windows was only blue because the person working on the BSOD just happened to like the color that their computer's terminal was by default so they made the BSOD (actually called "BugCheck") into blue.
Having a bright colour on the screen is actually quite important. It has to grab your attention. I've had a few kernel panics (just didn't know it was because the system just freezes) so it will be nice to finally know what causes them. I can expect some more useful bug reports once bsods start rolling out to users.
I want every letter and the background of that letter to be a different color and each word to be in a different font. And each new line changes the font size.
I don't think I have encountered a kernel panic... but if I have, or if I do end up seeing one, my reaction is probably just going to be: Oh no! Anyway.
Well I myself hope that we will be able to inject custom bitmap for the background similar to how we can see tuxes on the boot screen. I want to see an anime girl telling me I fucked up every time I do 😌
I don't see anything wrong with what's going on here. You're going to make a change. It makes sense to try and make a change that people will appreciate. The issue with the screen being blue is that it suggests copying Windows, which people don't like in Linux. If it doesn't matter to the devs, and it matters to others, then just do something different. And, yes, the whole reason why people reacted badly to learning Linux wanted a BSOD was the blue part. It would be nice if people would stop valuing being snarky and looking down on people, and would just choose the option that would get it done. Since you saw people hating blue, just don't make it blue. Go purple or something. And let it be configurable, so people can change it so complaining doesn't make much sense.
There is an argument for distancing kernel panic message from BSOD: As you have said, the average user is not going to care, or even encounter a kernel panic screen. Therefore, it's cultural significance is much more important. Now people can walk around and tell Windows users that 'Linux doesn't BSOD'. And as BSOD is such a scary thing for Windows users, it paints Linux as this kind of strong-as-steel never-going-to-break-down solid system. Is it true? Absolutely not. Does it help the Linux community spread influence and encourage people to move away from the ever-worsening Windows platform? YES.
People being angry at the “your operating system quit unexpectedly” popup is indeed a little funny when you think about it. I do, however, feel my stomach drop when the audio buffer underflows and you get the last buffer full of audio playing on repeat. Oh boy, something must have gone horribly wrong…
I really like Phoronix, but I really despise the comment section on most articles. People always manage to complain about everything, whether it's GNOME, KDE, Flatpak, X11, OpenRC, systemd, a 17+ year old bug being fixed in Wine, etc. To its users there's always something to complain about. Not only that but it's also full of obnoxious, insufferable and ill-intentioned people like Birdie or sophisticles.
I like how BOTH articles did not explain that the color was configurable. In addition, the second screen (the SSD1306) is _monochrome_ so good luck configuring the color on that anyway! It did somewhat imply that the color is being chosen for the user, which _is_ a common hot topic for Linux users, but yes, it's an error screen. Why does anyone care?! Completely undermining my above comment: I miss the old BSOD for Windows, actually (but then, it's Windows. I see it a _lot_ ). The new one is not only a weird shade of cornflower but it's got a *smug* smiley face ("remain calm, you have lost all your work") and a QR code which is just as useless as the old "error at pointer whatever" message it used to have. (Also, does the information it's collecting actually _go_ anywhere? I'm not sure which answer I'd like to hear...) If you're going to tell me it crashed because I had the audacity to try to run VMware, at least give it the proper gravitas. I want it to be foreboding, ominous, and a sign of the imminent apocalypse. Not, "Oopsie, something happened." Yes, I _know_ that, my desktop and all my work is gone!
here's my hot take being a new Linux power user after using Windows for 20-some-odd-years, Kernel panics happen, that's just a normal part of computer operation, now, if it gave mem sectors or some other info, that would be VERY helpful to know if the panic was due to bad code, or more commonly with Linux systems, due to hardware failure, now, to clarify that statement, hardware failures are NOT common, especially not on Linux, however, just like it said on the vid, Linux is very stable because, much like the systems that came before it, especially BSD and by extension the OG SystemV those systems were designed by very intelligent people to be what's known in IT Admin circles as "mission critical systems" meaning this machine needs to be on 24/7/365/until-the-heat-death-of-the-universe, so, usually the only errors that would cause a Kernel panic on Unix system are either gross user error, or a dying system (hardware), and knowing which is which would be nice, instead of the system just hard locking or imploding in on itself.
If you dont like Blue you may like: Baby blue Baby blue eyes Baby pink Baby powder Baker-Miller pink Banana Mania Barbie pink Barn red Battleship grey Beau blue Beaver Beige Berry parfait B'dazzled blue Big dip o’ruby Big Foot Feet Bisque Bistre Bistre brown Bitter lemon Bittersweet Bittersweet shimmer Black Black bean Black coral Black olive Black Shadows Blanched almond Blast-off bronze Bleu de France Blizzard blue Blood red Blue Blue (Crayola) Blue (Munsell) Blue (NCS) Blue (Pantone) Blue (pigment) Blue bell Blue-gray Blue-gray (Crayola) Blue-green Blue jeans Blue Ribbon Blue sapphire Blue-violet Blue yonder Blueberry Bluetiful Blush Bole Bone Booger Buster Brick red Bright green Bright lilac Bright maroon Bright navy blue Bright pink Bright turquoise Bright yellow (Crayola) Brilliant rose Brink pink British racing green Bronze Brown Brown (crayola) Brown (web) Brown sugar Bud green Buff Burgundy Burlywood Burnished brown Burnt orange Burnt sienna Burnt umber Byzantine Byzantium ;)
I kind of want the option to bake in some information with it. Maybe a kernel kersion, or a distro release name. Just so we aren't left hanging too much when someone inevitability just posts a BSOD taken with thier phone.
Why is it blue? Because it's a BLUE Screen Of Death! Also, white text on black background is bad for people with astigmatism, whereas I've never had any issues reading the BSOD text I'm so tired of people being this desperate to be different. Just. Accept. It. And. Make. It. A. Standard. If you want to be a special snowflake, go configure it. Just make it readable and that's it
"the blue color is unpleasant" - and the fact that the system died is not? "a BSOD is good, you don't want your system to randomly power down." - clearly, he's not used Windows in a long time. Because by now the default is that you get the BSOD for 2 sec and then it already reboots itself. Yes, there's a setting for that, and it used to be OFF. It's not anymore. So it's essentially "randomly powering down", just with a blue flash before it does so. As for the color question: I don't give a f. I'm getting PTSD already when the screen flashes blue OR randomly turns into a terminal, so Linux got me covered already. Whenever the screen turns blue before my system dies or just freezes to death, I'm screwed either way, regardless of the color.
Brody, you are being unreasonable. I think it's understandable that someone has BSOD PTSD, why would we want to bring this crap over to Linux? Just the color my bum! >BSOD is a good thing, because it's better than random reboots/shutdowns. To me it seems like anyone that has ever tried to troubleshoot a Win BSOD will quickly realize that the only useful information from a BSOD beyond that is that it's not a power supply power cutout but rather something else, that's ALL that can be consistently inferred from their garbage error codes. Then again, I am genuinely happy seeing my Phoronix comment featured on the show. 😀 (as for never seeing these, my dad's PC often kernel panics with the stable Debian kernel, so whenever I hope that bug is fixed & I test the default kernel on that machine, I see a kernel panic message)
The message should be "kernel busy. to make it not busy, please REBOOT your computer. GUI is frozen. Vim does not work, Vi does not work. If you want to take a photo of the error message, press key. The error message may contain info relevant to experts and the name of the programs that possibly were the cause of the mental breakdown of the kernel. Consider the work you were just doing lost. And find your backups of your files. It's always possible that something installed on a computer makes ridiculous and harmful requests to the kernel. Now press the power switch on your computer. Reinstalling Linux is an option. See the error message? Yes/yes. "
I personally don't care what color the panic screen is... unless I do something criminally stupid to my installation, _I'll never see it._ Blue is part of the official color scheme for my distro, but _systemd_ has no part in it. Maybe that's why? Seriously, the last unexpected panic I had was on Slackware 4.0, and was traced to a hardware incompatibility. Replaced an incompatible network adapter, and Bob was my uncle yet again. In contrast, I remember the sheer number of BSODs in Windows from back in the days before I came to Linux. I don't have a calculator on hand that can display numbers that high. WinNT 3.51 was especially picky about its operating environment.
I think that the default message should be "Please reboot yo" regardless of screen size
This is your Linux kernel, yo 💥
An unrecoverable error has been encountered, *yo* 💥
Uh-huh 💥
You need to reboot your system 💥
@@jenbanimdamn you beat me to it
@@jenbanim I hope the error message is configurable...
if yes mine will be the wild west of error screens because why not
Talking like Killer Bee ya fool ya fool. Lol
On another channel there is someone who always writes a "hellorld" program rather than a "hello world" because he made that mistake once.
People argue over the most stupid things when everyone really knows the real crime is no penguin with a smiley face being shown!!!
Would tux with a frown be too much like a Mac? Smiling tux feels like he is mocking me after he killed my computer.
Now we must argue about the logo's facial expressions for 8 pages!
Kernel panics aren't really something to be happy about. I think it would be better if Tux was frowning, fallen over, or dazed, and maybe add a hammer/hard hat too? I'm not sure if they plan to support drawing images though. It would be really funny if people started ricing their BSOD for r/unixp with custom images.
@@placebo_name I want a tux on a tricycle with a saw mask laughing at me
Perhaps it should be a black screen with a command line penguin using a maritime telescope to survey each software conflict and their respective troubleshooting instructions.
Rico would seem like the appropriate penguin for a BSOD
Blaming the BSOD for your computer crashing is the nerd equivalent of "why don't they move the deer crossing somewhere else?"
Or "I don't take Antipsychotics drugs, therefore I don't have Schizophrenia"
I understood that reference 😹
There was a screenshot of a tweet going around recently which said something like “for every sci-fi robot that goes evil, there is an engineer that specifically installed red LEDs in the eyes for just that circumstance”. Only one person I saw responded saying that of course, that’s an important safety feature, the alternative is an evil robot without a visible indication.
The only correct color here is green. Specifically a green blob with two hands, a tongue sticking out, and the text: "DON'T PANIC! And make sure you know where your towel is."
Yes but I don't think our technology is advanced enough for that.
Brat green would be good for a bsod (brat screen of death)
Why not just a big 42 on the screen? (I think it was 42, but it's been a while).
@@kensmith5694 Indeed! We still can't even get digital watches right!
I think the only reasonable solution is to have panic messages be displayed on a pulsating multicolored screen. If it doesn't induce epileptic seizures I can't really consider it an actual kernel panic, it's merely a minor kernel dismay...
Now THAT is a kill screen! Don’t call it a screen-of-death unless it has a literal bodycount
“what about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project.” “Ah,” said the marketing girl, “well, we’re having a little difficulty there.” “Difficulty?” exclaimed Ford. “Difficulty? What do you mean, difficulty? It’s the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!” The marketing girl soured him with a look “All right, Mr. Wiseguy,” she said, “you’re so clever, you tell us what color it should be.”
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
I forgot about that line. In fact, I still don't remember it and I'm just going to believe you that it exists.
Pff. What did Douglas Adams know? His big message was _Don't_ panic. 😝
They underestimated the ingenuity of complete fools in the comments
@@RockyPixelDoes the name "Golgafrinchans" jog any memories loose?
I came here just for this comment! Well, at least we have found our entire useless third of our planet 😂
Blue? Black? If I can't have Nyan Cat playing in a loop as my BSOD I'd rather just have a frozen GUI screen.
I'd prefer flying toasters
O.M.G. Yes!
Better question: Can it be an animated screen 🤔
@@zerron2156 Computer I know you are dying but I would like you to please render this animated screen for my amusement.
i would prefer a Cyan Nat.
I insist that the message be changed to "Please reboot, yo!"
Or: «Gotta reboot, bro!»
With a penguin scull on a red background. That was a really good idea.
"wait what is this? why is my screen blue? i dont read anything on blue, this means nothing to me. devs please fix"
If thats what gets people to report the issue then so be it
Obviously the most important feature is for the Linux BSOD to appear for only half a second and with _barely_ enough information given that would give you the slightest of hope of solving it (but not enough to _actually_ solve it).
And of course needs a QR code to a completely useless article.
And you have to login to your Linux account after rebooting.
@@felixfourcolorPlus to login you have to send the code they send to your phone
And a :( face
On windows it’s very easy to read out the contents of all past bluescreens with a tool. On Linux I hope it is going to the usual logs. Can’t remember when I had a kernel panic the last time on Linux. Too long ago. On Windows all bluescreens I had were because of faulty graphics drivers.
@@mudi2000a yes it was from nirsoft, it's called bluescteenview
BSOD: Brown Screen Of Death = your computer has pooped itself
Bread screen of death = your computer is bread
This video still didn't explain whether we could have a brown screen of death. It's really important to my workflow to know when the kernel craps itself.
why not display a image of a penguin that is crapping on the ground
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
I was hoping for guru meditation. But "please reboot yo" should be the staple and permanent
Geniunely I prefer the 'Blue' in BSOD, as it's sooo outstandingly 'my screen never has this much of THAT blue ever', that I noticed instantly. I get it you don't want to copy windows modern BSOD, but good lord wouldn't you want to learn from MS and their past BSOD where were all soo helpful and got used to quickly find the majority of issues, with only some being sort of related crashes because of another unrelated crash (but gathering several BSODs and the system behavior was & still is very valuable consumer information for troubleshooting)
Windows BSOD are 'as generic' now because ... they kind of have to be really, given the insane variety of people it serves & HW it sits on. They provide most the time safe & easy to do troubleshooting tips... for even those who can't read a stack trace to save their lives.
oh boy more bikeshedding, my favorite. i love the amount of bikeshedding in linux, especially wayland. its wonderful!
TRU. these fat nerds with no life are the entire reason "the year of the linux desktop" will never exist.
Me too!
I love when solutions to problems evade us just because people like arguing :)
Let's ignore everything you said and say that it's actually gnu/linux because that's the important part
In this case it's just a bunch of dumbasses on a forum, at least. I went into the video expecting actual developers to be bike-shedding the feature and was pleasantly surprised.
The BSOD isn't Hotdog Stand yellow on red and doesn't have a animated cat dancing in ASCII art, so it's bad.
If that were the case, I would be "Come on dammit, CRASH!!!!"
I feel like a script to make the colour different every single time in a randomized way would be great but I also feel like I'd forget about it by the next time the stack crashed and be like "...why is this taupe?"
Could put in lots of B colours. Burgundy bistre bisque birch byzantium barberry
"Yo dudes, kernel panic is pretty chill. You can reboot or something"
Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy: a useless group couldn't invent the wheel, because they couldn't agree what colour it should be.
Thank you for reminding me of that.
Funny thing there are two reason's why the BSOD screen is blue:
- Lowest common denominator for video hardware that NT could run on supported White on Blue
- The developer who wrote it(John Vert) had a MIPS RISC development PC which by default was White on Blue on the firmware.
Btw you can change the color using the "Not my fault" utility by sysinternals on windows.
That maybe true, but I think it goes far - far before windows was even a thing.
White on Blue was the microsoft trademark on all their MSDOS apps from the start. As it was for a lot of Text mode apps back in the era. The thing is that colored backgrounds over white text made possible to highlight words with real "bold" character, by changing to the brighter white. Of all the basic colors, the only one pleasan to the eyes was the blue. So that was it.
Windows installers were white on blue as the ms dos installer, and all the other apps.
Anything "text" mode was white over blue.
BSOD just followed the same theme.
First time I encountered a BSOD, I briefly thought the PC had somehow loaded WordPerfect.
@@erinw6120 Exactly, at that time, when most people used amber or green text only monitors, white over blue was how you show off your expensive color monitor :) (I associate white/blue with the first AT, maybe was when all this started?)
You don't even need a utility to change color anymore because it's the same color as your accent color set in the personalization settings
@@framegrace1 Not for NT, John Vert never worked on Windows on DOS or DOS. It was simply a personal choice for him.
Aye, that's a Linux BSOD, that is a Bikeshedding Overdose.
Blue is the right color. People know what a BSOD is. The blue helps communicate that.
Who cares... Each distro gonna theme the bsod to reflect it's branding. Just have clear wording and ship it.
Exactly. A lot of people are very quick to forget that everyone will instantly know what blue is.
Exactly. People not getting this is just one of those things that severely hinders the "year of desktop linux"...
I disagree. It's only true if you're from the windows world. In Linux, the "something is wrong" color is black, because that's the TTY background color.
@@felixfourcolor Unless you use the tty or a terminal emulator all the time.
make it a Brodie screen of death. Every time you get a kernel panic the background has a picture of Brodie
Perhaps the Linux BSOD can become the Black Screen Of Diagnostics, featuring a command line penguin looking through its trusty maritime telescope to inspect each inherent software conflict and the respective troubleshooting instructions thereof.
In addition to configurable color they should add a "surfer dude" text option where it conveys the error message in surf slang and other "extreme sports" so it can just say "Please restart yo!"
If there are any football/soccer related messages I will not be responsible for my actions. And it will be very expensive in terms of replacing hardware.
[I hail from England. I am not a football fan. I am now an ex-pat. You can connect the dots.]
Now I'm picturing it in Porky Pig.
to solve the very serious choice of color problem both the background and foreground should be made of random noise
I've been running Linux distros regularly for around 7 years or so, and I've only ever seen maybe 3 kernel panic messages.
And like you said, I didn't do anything with it. Rebooted and continued as normal.
Barring some unforeseeable catastrophe, I have no personal stake in this change and can't imagine that it will reduce anyone's experience in a meaningful way.
Still, a standard command line output just _feels_ aesthetically nicer in my opinion. The whole BSOD thing just makes me think of Microsoft.
I'm thinking from the perspective of newbies - I think blue is actually good. Sure, black is nice, but if newbies see a terminal-like screen, they'll just blank out and panic. At least if it's blue, it suggests that the OS still has things under control, the computer isn't damaged
I should go make a patch to make it a rainbow screen of death, that way everyone got their color of choice in there. Inclusive!
systemd-pride
@@everypizza PSOD
bsod | lolcat
LGBTSOD
Fail. I want my panic to be purple, which doesn't exist in rainbows. 😂
I think it's important that the BSOD is brown Text on green Background - that way you know your system just shat itself in the forest. It also looks terrible.
Don't do gruvbox like that
This thread is a testament to the brilliance of bots and their capacity for growth. 🤖
but i like the kernel vt messages, they feel so raw
DRM crashing bringing up the kernel vt would 💯 be a valid solution for a lot of peoole. But the problem is that right now, all that happens is that your system completely locks up and *shows you nothing.*
As Brodie says in the video repeatedly, people don't realize this, because the kernel almost never panics for most Linux users.
@@GSBarlev thats exactly what i want, the kernel VT to pop up. And i had a kernel panic locking my system recently.
holy shit the number of bots here is shocking
it's four
@@everypizzai remember times when there were 0, haven't been on youtube for a while
This "don't use blue" mentality is why Gimp keeps struggling with adoption - they go out of their way to not be proprietary-like as possible to user's detriment.
Congratulations you solved no problem and also caused confusion and delay
WEIRDO FOSS GATEKEEPERS UNITE!
Insert my eyes rolling here.
Yeah gimp has always been really obnoxious to use
pretty weird to compare a colour to proprietary.
@@turtlefrog369 which is the point.
These people think intuitive easy to use and standardized UX or COLORS are proprietary THEREFORE we must make the exact opposite everywhere everytime.
Makes no sense and that's the point.
@@Mordecrox To be fair, some companies have tried (not sure if they succeeded) with slapping their UI designs with an "intellectual property of us" sticker, to prevent their competitors from using it. Not sure how likely an open source project is of getting sued because of that, though. My uninformed intuition tells me it's a pretty negligible likelihood, but as I said, I don't really know.
EDIT:
Might have been patents and not intellectual property, was a while ago I read about it.
I'm not at ease with the idea of a Beige Screen of Death. I think a Burgundy Screen of Death is my favorite. I'd prefer a Brass Screen of Death over a Bronze Screen of Death, but a Beryl Screen of Death would be better. And as many people have already said, a Brown Screen of Death is a complete no-go. 🤡
To continue the dance of color -- IMHO if the VT is white on black, a kpanic being the same color is too similar to the default to be simple to identify (imagine a class of computers), so blue is better than black and since we have a cultural expectation of what white text on blue background means on a screen blue also satisfies POLS...
Thus, I'd say a BSOD actually has two functions: saying that things went wrong (and how), and to be easily identifiable.
But, for those people who use Linux as "not a windows", yeah, I understand why blue is worse than any other color =)
Bikeshedding is my favourite past-time activity
Looks like this choice of colour has really got people feeling blue
as someone who encountered frequent kernel panics when doing weird, or even just normal gaming things, please yes give me information, no, i don't care what it looks like
I'll make it purple
Also people should stop trying to kill the messenger
How VMWare of you.
Lmfaoooo this is hysterical to watch unfold.
In all seriousness though. In more than a decade of running various Linux desktops and servers, I may have seen a kernel panic once, which was hard to tell because my computer froze, my wife spilled coffee on my Desktop which some landed on my GPU and I think caused the thing to crash the display driver. Ironically, it survived after drying it out with some paper towels. EVGA's build quality is / was astounding.
This is why Linux desktop will never rise. Everyone complain on anything so nothing useful is done.(snaps,Wayland,bsod)and the most popular app and games are just emulation of windows(proton or wine).
On a more serious note, I see no downsides to this. I got some BSOD trauma from earlier Windows versions where they popped up often due to driver problems or other things but, like you said, they are only the messenger and at least at some point they became useful in trying to troubleshoot issues.
Random color every frame. Compromise means everybody's unhappy, right?
Who remembers the "BSODomizer"? A little remote controlled box you put inline between the victim's video card & monitor. You click a button on the remote and it would display a fake BSOD.
What I don't like nowadays is the tendency of software in general to hide information from the users. Any BSOD, no matter the color 🤦♂️, should give the essential minimal information (if possible) of what triggered the error. Of course there are the LOGs to investigate, but the BSOD could always give the first step for investigation, for the chance you can't see the LOGs later...
As silly as this colour debate is, the amber screen of death suggestion seems like a great choice to me.
I might configure the system to display like that once this gets released on Arch.
This definitely is a great addition, but the complaint's of Windows's (modern) BSODs not being verbose enough is valid, gauging by the ones I experienced.
Though even this is a rarity, both my Linux systems randomly crash more than the family Windows laptop.
We should all agree that the ideal color scheme for the Linux BSoD should be a black background with bright red text and a blinking box outline.
If the kernel panics, it should dump to a kernel log. If it panics before the graphical interface starts, you get a kconsole dump. If you get a kernel panic, you are pretty screwed because there's not a lot of info on debugging kernel panics.
the error screen should be a picture of linus torvalds with the text "you are going to die now"
I want flashing red, and the words "Guru Meditation."
I second this.
That would be cool until someone has a seizure from the flashing 😮
My system has a problem where every few weeks the compositor goes bananas and the screen freezes, nothing is responding and even vt is inaccessible - but I can still ssh into the computer. Knowing that it isn't a kernel panic because I would see a kernel panic screen is a huge improvement.
i mean, it's not a kernel panic if ssh continues to work.
@@chri-k of course, but from outside the machine, with no network, it's hard to distinguish between the input and out being dead and actual panic - without the DRM panic feature.
@@guss77 true
2:52, I'm sorry, but Screen of Death is such a metal name for something so nerdy.
The reason that people of a certain age are more concerned with the BSOD rather than, as you astutely pointed out several times, is that Win3,xx - XP BSOD'ed _alot_. This is one area that MS has vastly improved in. Take a 15 yro from today where its either crap applications or bad RAM stick and go back to 1998 they would lose their mind, just because all the troubleshooting skills of today are virtually worthless. The BSOD is literally PTSD for some folks. In fact this is what got me onto Slackware back in 1995 and Red Hat pseudo-permanently in 2000 (when 2.6 kernel dropped in beta, had to have it due to hardware I was waiting on a kmod for). People don't appreciate how much better things have been on the MS from since Vista (ought to be with a 10 year dev cycle). Still won't use MS or Apple anymore.
The NTs (at least NT4 and later) were all pretty stable for me as long as the hardware was good and you didn't have any bad drivers. The 16-bit and hybrid versions, definitely crash-prone due to lack of proper memory protection.
I have seen quite a few kernel panics. There are two places where it seems to happen.
1) When I am shutting down Linux Mint the very last thing the process tries to do is turn off the power. For whatever reason, sometimes the power doesn't go off and instead the code gets to the kernel panic state. I suspect this is a hardware issue on the PC involved.
2) On Puppy Linux, you can make your own version by "remastering". If the result of "remastering" is a squash file system that doesn't fit into RAM, you get a kernel panic.
Yes, most panics I encounter are related to boot, exactly the time when the VTs are active.
well, I've got my first kernel panic cases last week on my laptop, something battery related. But again, I'am on an Arch-based(😎) system, so the problem went away after a couple of updates.
But still, having a meaningful message would've been nice. Plus, I'd prefer it to be white-on-blue screen, for nostalgic reasons
My first thought was literally "ew, blue... reminds me of Windows, can we change that pls?"
Typical accidental Linux PR disaster lol, glad to have error messages finally!
Obviously the correct color is in fact out a single color the error info encapsulated in a black rectangle that sits on top of a TV test card/pattern
Also, a facepalm gif background would be fun too
The most hilarious thing in the Linux space to me is how people think that if windows does a thing then Linux has to either not do that thing or do it in a completely different way. The only considerations for if Linux should do a thing the way Windows does a thing or not is if it's a good idea to do it that way and if interoperability with the way Windows does it is important. Is it a bad idea? Don't copy it. Is it a good idea? Do copy it.
it's still a BSOD, just "Black Screen Of Death"
the windows was only blue because the person working on the BSOD just happened to like the color that their computer's terminal was by default so they made the BSOD (actually called "BugCheck") into blue.
I hope we can customize it with some anime girl ascii arts, or even use colorful squares to create low resolution image, that wpuld be so linux...
Attack Windows. It's thing you are seeing and is causing the problem.
Having a bright colour on the screen is actually quite important. It has to grab your attention.
I've had a few kernel panics (just didn't know it was because the system just freezes) so it will be nice to finally know what causes them. I can expect some more useful bug reports once bsods start rolling out to users.
I’ll switch to whichever distro has “Please reboot yo” for the panic message.
nobodys asking the real questions
can i customise my BSOD with ASCII waifus
I want every letter and the background of that letter to be a different color and each word to be in a different font. And each new line changes the font size.
I want a blood-red screen with instructions on reporting the panic to the devs.
A panic screen is supposed to stand out, not something you stare at for hours.
Blue is a good color.
That doesn't means it can't be cool uwu
Red with a penguim skull is better
slip of tongue but i think piperland is the new wm i would want to use
Penguin skull would be absolutely badass tho
KERNEL PANIC !
Please reboot yo
Windows Be Sod. Too true, buddy. Too true.
video description has broken my brain
Just do black text on a black back ground.
I don't think I have encountered a kernel panic... but if I have, or if I do end up seeing one, my reaction is probably just going to be:
Oh no! Anyway.
lol Top Gear nice
Well I myself hope that we will be able to inject custom bitmap for the background similar to how we can see tuxes on the boot screen.
I want to see an anime girl telling me I fucked up every time I do 😌
Been tinkering with my A1200 lately so I'm going to say... What's wrong with the good ole' "Guru Meditation" error?
it's always the same trolls on phoronix is incredible, really, just ban the same 4 people there, and the entire comments QI gonna grow 50%
If you visit frequently you do start to see a trend lol
Honesty I sympathize with the Phoronix comment section. All I really crave from my Linux experience is to be as far removed from Windows as possible.
I don't see anything wrong with what's going on here. You're going to make a change. It makes sense to try and make a change that people will appreciate.
The issue with the screen being blue is that it suggests copying Windows, which people don't like in Linux. If it doesn't matter to the devs, and it matters to others, then just do something different.
And, yes, the whole reason why people reacted badly to learning Linux wanted a BSOD was the blue part.
It would be nice if people would stop valuing being snarky and looking down on people, and would just choose the option that would get it done. Since you saw people hating blue, just don't make it blue. Go purple or something.
And let it be configurable, so people can change it so complaining doesn't make much sense.
“Don’t shoot the messenger”
sanest Phoronix comments
I never heard anyone ever say "BeeSOD"
There is an argument for distancing kernel panic message from BSOD: As you have said, the average user is not going to care, or even encounter a kernel panic screen. Therefore, it's cultural significance is much more important. Now people can walk around and tell Windows users that 'Linux doesn't BSOD'. And as BSOD is such a scary thing for Windows users, it paints Linux as this kind of strong-as-steel never-going-to-break-down solid system. Is it true? Absolutely not. Does it help the Linux community spread influence and encourage people to move away from the ever-worsening Windows platform? YES.
I want mine to say "Ah shit, here we go again"
Nice 90's song on your whiteboard
Oh boy, Linux getting blue screens of death is Linux coming full circle as an OS, maybe now it can go mainstream?
I think the BSOD is a good thing. I do want it to default to another color though so people don't give it the same connotation as the Windows BSOD
People being angry at the “your operating system quit unexpectedly” popup is indeed a little funny when you think about it.
I do, however, feel my stomach drop when the audio buffer underflows and you get the last buffer full of audio playing on repeat. Oh boy, something must have gone horribly wrong…
Maybe my path of thought is wrong but:
- user sees BSOD
- user sees Linux
- user thinks Linux BSOD == Windows BSOD == both bad, stick to Windows
I really like Phoronix, but I really despise the comment section on most articles. People always manage to complain about everything, whether it's GNOME, KDE, Flatpak, X11, OpenRC, systemd, a 17+ year old bug being fixed in Wine, etc. To its users there's always something to complain about.
Not only that but it's also full of obnoxious, insufferable and ill-intentioned people like Birdie or sophisticles.
I like how BOTH articles did not explain that the color was configurable. In addition, the second screen (the SSD1306) is _monochrome_ so good luck configuring the color on that anyway!
It did somewhat imply that the color is being chosen for the user, which _is_ a common hot topic for Linux users, but yes, it's an error screen. Why does anyone care?!
Completely undermining my above comment: I miss the old BSOD for Windows, actually (but then, it's Windows. I see it a _lot_ ). The new one is not only a weird shade of cornflower but it's got a *smug* smiley face ("remain calm, you have lost all your work") and a QR code which is just as useless as the old "error at pointer whatever" message it used to have. (Also, does the information it's collecting actually _go_ anywhere? I'm not sure which answer I'd like to hear...)
If you're going to tell me it crashed because I had the audacity to try to run VMware, at least give it the proper gravitas. I want it to be foreboding, ominous, and a sign of the imminent apocalypse.
Not, "Oopsie, something happened." Yes, I _know_ that, my desktop and all my work is gone!
here's my hot take being a new Linux power user after using Windows for 20-some-odd-years, Kernel panics happen, that's just a normal part of computer operation, now, if it gave mem sectors or some other info, that would be VERY helpful to know if the panic was due to bad code, or more commonly with Linux systems, due to hardware failure, now, to clarify that statement, hardware failures are NOT common, especially not on Linux, however, just like it said on the vid, Linux is very stable because, much like the systems that came before it, especially BSD and by extension the OG SystemV those systems were designed by very intelligent people to be what's known in IT Admin circles as "mission critical systems" meaning this machine needs to be on 24/7/365/until-the-heat-death-of-the-universe, so, usually the only errors that would cause a Kernel panic on Unix system are either gross user error, or a dying system (hardware), and knowing which is which would be nice, instead of the system just hard locking or imploding in on itself.
If you dont like Blue you may like:
Baby blue
Baby blue eyes
Baby pink
Baby powder
Baker-Miller pink
Banana Mania
Barbie pink
Barn red
Battleship grey
Beau blue
Beaver
Beige
Berry parfait
B'dazzled blue
Big dip o’ruby
Big Foot Feet
Bisque
Bistre
Bistre brown
Bitter lemon
Bittersweet
Bittersweet shimmer
Black
Black bean
Black coral
Black olive
Black Shadows
Blanched almond
Blast-off bronze
Bleu de France
Blizzard blue
Blood red
Blue
Blue (Crayola)
Blue (Munsell)
Blue (NCS)
Blue (Pantone)
Blue (pigment)
Blue bell
Blue-gray
Blue-gray (Crayola)
Blue-green
Blue jeans
Blue Ribbon
Blue sapphire
Blue-violet
Blue yonder
Blueberry
Bluetiful
Blush
Bole
Bone
Booger Buster
Brick red
Bright green
Bright lilac
Bright maroon
Bright navy blue
Bright pink
Bright turquoise
Bright yellow (Crayola)
Brilliant rose
Brink pink
British racing green
Bronze
Brown
Brown (crayola)
Brown (web)
Brown sugar
Bud green
Buff
Burgundy
Burlywood
Burnished brown
Burnt orange
Burnt sienna
Burnt umber
Byzantine
Byzantium
;)
I kind of want the option to bake in some information with it. Maybe a kernel kersion, or a distro release name. Just so we aren't left hanging too much when someone inevitability just posts a BSOD taken with thier phone.
Why is it blue? Because it's a BLUE Screen Of Death!
Also, white text on black background is bad for people with astigmatism, whereas I've never had any issues reading the BSOD text
I'm so tired of people being this desperate to be different. Just. Accept. It. And. Make. It. A. Standard. If you want to be a special snowflake, go configure it.
Just make it readable and that's it
"the blue color is unpleasant" - and the fact that the system died is not?
"a BSOD is good, you don't want your system to randomly power down." - clearly, he's not used Windows in a long time.
Because by now the default is that you get the BSOD for 2 sec and then it already reboots itself.
Yes, there's a setting for that, and it used to be OFF. It's not anymore. So it's essentially "randomly powering down", just with a blue flash before it does so.
As for the color question: I don't give a f. I'm getting PTSD already when the screen flashes blue OR randomly turns into a terminal, so Linux got me covered already.
Whenever the screen turns blue before my system dies or just freezes to death, I'm screwed either way, regardless of the color.
Brody, you are being unreasonable. I think it's understandable that someone has BSOD PTSD, why would we want to bring this crap over to Linux? Just the color my bum!
>BSOD is a good thing, because it's better than random reboots/shutdowns.
To me it seems like anyone that has ever tried to troubleshoot a Win BSOD will quickly realize that the only useful information from a BSOD beyond that is that it's not a power supply power cutout but rather something else, that's ALL that can be consistently inferred from their garbage error codes.
Then again, I am genuinely happy seeing my Phoronix comment featured on the show. 😀
(as for never seeing these, my dad's PC often kernel panics with the stable Debian kernel, so whenever I hope that bug is fixed & I test the default kernel on that machine, I see a kernel panic message)
The message should be "kernel busy. to make it not busy, please REBOOT your computer. GUI is frozen. Vim does not work, Vi does not work. If you want to take a photo of the error message, press key. The error message may contain info relevant to experts and the name of the programs that possibly were the cause of the mental breakdown of the kernel. Consider the work you were just doing lost. And find your backups of your files. It's always possible that something installed on a computer makes ridiculous and harmful requests to the kernel.
Now press the power switch on your computer. Reinstalling Linux is an option.
See the error message? Yes/yes. "
Ralph Wiggam: nobody is using the vt scrollback
TH-camrs: you never see the panic
Anyone using debian seriously: 🙄
I personally don't care what color the panic screen is... unless I do something criminally stupid to my installation, _I'll never see it._ Blue is part of the official color scheme for my distro, but _systemd_ has no part in it. Maybe that's why?
Seriously, the last unexpected panic I had was on Slackware 4.0, and was traced to a hardware incompatibility. Replaced an incompatible network adapter, and Bob was my uncle yet again.
In contrast, I remember the sheer number of BSODs in Windows from back in the days before I came to Linux. I don't have a calculator on hand that can display numbers that high. WinNT 3.51 was especially picky about its operating environment.