I grew up Catholic in Ireland in the 70's and 80's I never heard any Catholic condemn gay people. The American Catholic Church it seems was very different. I never heard any priest condemn gay people or attack gay people. Maybe I was very lucky to have great, kind compassionate priests in the parishes and Catholic Schools I went to.
Some of the priests and bishops in the USA are a bit wacky, very right wing. I've lived in Europe and Canada and they aren't at all the same on gay people and marriage. As Ireland and many other Catholic countries. USA is known for having a basket of deplorables, as you can see with Trump and his gang. Same goes for some religions ....Some are in that basket
@@atheistexchristian Yes, they tend to be even more leftist and pro-homosexual in Europe. That contributed greatly to do the scandals. Just look at Danneels, Marx or Kilsdonk.
@stapme Those priests should be dealt with, as should the leftist bishops who protected them and those who fought this like Cardinals Burke and Pell should be supported.
It's basic Church teaching: Love the Sinner hate the Sin. Smoking is a great secular example. I love my "Aunt Patty" but she a heavy smoker. She's great at cooking, actually is good at the art of conversation. Not just gossip but different things and ideas and keeping in touch. But she's a heavy smoker. It burns my eyes and when I leave her place I have to shower and change clothes. I love "Aunt Patty" i hate her smoking though.
@@TiroDvD what a stupid analogy. To compare smoking to homosexuality at any level is insulting and demonstrates your failure to understand homosexuality. Please, if you wish to contribute, do so in an adult manner, use your God-given gift of reason.
Beautiful to hear all of the people’s stories. It’s sad that we often don’t get to hear these experiences, it helps us to all understand both sides of the debate.
As a homosexual, I really like this short film. It shows a perspective that I don't necessarily support, but that I definitely needed to see and hear. It's very refreshing to hear someone else's opinion in a calm way and not through anger and rage. I agree with everything in this documentary except for the opinion on sexuality. I personally think that people may express their intimacy however they like, to whomever they like(so long as this "whomever" agrees with it). On another note, "I am not gay, I am David; a Catholic man." Is a nice summary of my opinion on sexuality: Don't make it your defining feature. EDIT: I have not yet mentioned that the beginning of the film insinuated that homosexual desires are caused by childhood trauma, which is false. Though, I'm sure that many of the people in this comment section are aware of that.
Lucifag Really appreciate your respectful disagreement on this super important issue here. There’s so little of that these days, so it’s great to hear it! As far as whether homosexual proclivities are caused by biological or environmental factors (or some combination of the two) the video did seem to imply it was environmental, though at least one of the people did claim to have good relationships with his family and the Catholic Church growing up. Definitely could’ve used some more clarification! The Catechism just says, basically, we don’t know where it originated or how, but, as Jason Evert notes, the inclination itself isn’t sinful, but acting on it is. As a same-sex attracted Catholic man I, again really do appreciate the respect from a non-Catholic gay person. We don’t get that very much unfortunately Pax Christi!
God never told us that following him would be easy. Sin is easy and it is so tempting to say that all the wrongs out there are actually alright to do. Being Catholic and following all of the Mother Church's teachings has become extremely difficult. It nice to find a video that expresses the Doctrine of the Church in a rational and loving manner.
The Wanderer "Love means loving the unlovable"? What an incredibly masochistic remark. I feel sorry for you if you actually think you have to live your life a virgin just because this foul and self-justifying church has claimed ownership over your life.
***** And God told you to be chaste, then? Or did the Church? Or is this just your personal interpretation of the Bible? And if so, what makes it better than anybody else's interpretation? There are plenty of other interpretations of the Bible out there that don't require you to torture yourself in this way...
***** You did not read my reply. I told you- God hasn't told you to do anything. You are relying 100% on the interpretation of a piece of literature. And like any piece of literature- the interpretation of it is necessarily ambiguous. Luckily as an atheist and secularist, I don't feel compelled to live my life according to religious superstition, so whether or not you can demonstrate that the bible holds an animosity towards homosexuality doesn't terribly matter to me. It also holds animosities towards women, 'slaves' and a general contempt for non-believers. But I do know that many Christians DO in fact consider God to have as much respect for homosexual love as he does for heterosexual love- and that this extends beyond just marriage between a man and a woman. Don't ask me how they make that fit with the text. I don't have to jump through those hoops. And seeing as I also rely on science, I know that enforced chastity on a person is not healthy from any psychological, emotional or physical standpoint. It is an entirely harmful practice and ideology that has had horrific consequences for individuals (and the victims that those individuals tend to molest out of frustration) over literally thousands of years of recorded history. There is nothing wrong with two gay men having sex. Like any great truth that Christian Dogma has been confronted with over the centuries- it goes through three phases: First they deny it exists. Then they say it conflicts with the Bible. Then they claim they knew it all along. And you can see already the rapidly growing demographic of Christians who fall into this third category... PARTICULARLY people my age. I think you must have seen where this whole "hey I've got a great idea why don't you just never have sex ever" thing is headed- don't you?
***** "it's sad that you get taught that in school." Spoken like someone who never went to school... But ok- since you seem to like the raunchy stuff. No. There is nothing wrong with two or more adults consenting to private sexual encounters. Animals obviously cannot give consent, so bestiality is ruled out. Any questions? Or can you offer an actual argument against this position that isn't: a) Gross! b) My pre-determined ethics don't allow this. Because you know... They're pre-determined and shit... c) Thinking about these subjects rationally has always been taboo so that means there is something wrong with doing so. And there's something wrong with you if you don't agree with either answer a) or b).
Excellent. 1. No man should define himself first by his sexual attraction, but by his divine sonship. This is our true identity. 2. As for our sexuality and heart, we are all wounded. I'm straight but I'm wounded too. Who can say : I love exactly the way I should...? Nobody on earth. (beside Our Lady ;-) 3. We are all called to conversion, chastity, purity, true love. When we fail somehow (because we ALL fail), we can dive into God's infinite tenderness, mercy and forgiveness
4 ปีที่แล้ว +1
When you say "we are all wounded," do you say this while believing a heterosexual person more closely fits the model of Christian perfection?
1. Sexuality is not what defines us as a whole and who we are entirely as people. However, it is a part of who we are none the less. It defines our ability to love and who we love, and love is what gives joy and meaning to people. Suppressing this and trying to mentally reinforce to ourselves that our attractions aren't "What defines us" only does more harm than good, because it basically teaches you this permanent aspect of yourselves isn't truly you, despite it always being there. To embrace yourself and your attraction can, if done properly, lead to wholesome fruitful relationships that improve your quality of life. For a community who has been persecuted to this day, it does makes sense why people would want to boldly identify with this aspect of themselves. 2. By "wounded" do you refer to the pain that comes with direct attack, neglect, and denial of human intimacy, connection and relationships or "wounded" in some other term? What I always find irritating about these conversations, is that while with having good sympathetic intent, conservative Christians try to conflate the issues gay people face with straight people to give a feeling of a sense of equality and recognition. The reality is, gay people can still be killed in certain countries. Gay people can not have relationships without facing the law in many countries, and gay people in many countries cannot publicly be themselves without being assaulted. Gay people can still be kicked out of their homes for coming out.The suicide rate among LGBT youth is very high for these reasons. 3. Conversion and chastity and purity are not equally applied to both gay and straight people. Straight people, even if in religions or cultures that support chastity outside procreation, still are allowed to engage in relationships publicly without shame, have sex in their marriages (for procreation but we know that's not the only reason humans have sex) and true love. Our sexuality should not create an unnecessary "cross" that we have to endure to experience God's love.
I commend the people in this video and the ones who made it. I've always had an attraction toward the wrong people, not living a gay lifestyle but with people of the opposite sex who were married or separated. After a relationship with a single person who pushed me to be intimate in ways I didn't feel comfortable, I realized it's really all the same. Many of us are just attracted to things and people who separate us from God. Since then I've never judged a gay person for feeling the way I do. I'm celibate and totally fine with it because my purpose and peace, which could never be completely filled elsewhere, come from communion with God. Not through physical sex. This society is too focused on sex as the ultimate excitement and all we need - it's quite the opposite when you know God. Your desire for it is lessened and replaced with more important things. Kudos to these brave souls who spoke out publicly about their struggles.
You are telling my story, generally, here ... God bless you !
5 ปีที่แล้ว
You chose to remain celibate for fear of punishment from an invisible tyrant. Doesn't sound like a healthy lifestyle at all tbh
4 ปีที่แล้ว
@@lonelyberg1808 As a baptized Catholic who learned Catholic theology and history from Catholic Hungarian monks, I do believe I understand his faith very well. Are you familiar with the Placebo Effect?
Lovely video. I'm not Catholic myself (I'm loosely Seventh-Day Adventist), but I have grown up in various Protestant churches, and I can say the attitude shown by the church folk here is basically what I grew up with as well - "love the sinner, hate the sin" is an attitude shown toward *all* people in the hopes of helping each other grow in Jesus; it's not meant as a judgement or cover-up for hate, as many people portray it as. Christians are not always the most tactful (we're human beings & mess up, too!), this idea that we hate gay people is quite honestly fabricated for political gain. I've never known a Christian person who treated a gay person with intentional disrespect, much less hatred. People do get emotional about this issue, discussions can get heated, and yes, most Christians will not think homosexual acts are okay. But most of the Christians I've met *will* treat gay people the same as they would anyone else, and try to be as kind and supportive to them as possible, while still maintaining their own moral beliefs. If anything, the LGBTQ *movement* (as in the political/social movement made up of both gay and straight people) has widened the rift & made things worse by verbally attacking people who disagree with them (more conservative gay people included), and painting them as hateful bigots. It makes people feel uncomfortable talking about it. You always wonder - if you let a person (gay or straight) know that the Bible says it's wrong to act on gay feelings, and that you agree, will the person storm off? Will they freak out at you, call you names, pound the table, yell in your face, end their relationship with you? (all of these things have happened to me personally). It makes me sad to think that people with SSA could find a home in a church (and the church could find a new family member), but the propaganda around it stifles that communication in both directions and harms us all. This video really nails it, and I hope it spreads & helps bring more understanding between people.
I've noticed many negative comments here. It seems odd to me. The people ranting against this video fail to realize this has not been forced upon anyone. Each person in this video made a concious decision to choose something other than explicityly fufilling their desires. That's the privilege of every adult.
I'm a male, practising Catholic who also identifies as gay. A female friend of mine shared this video with me today, it's one of the best I've seen on church teaching on people with SSE, taking on board the struggles and pains that gay men and women have faced and into a positive outlook for the future. I also knew some of the speakers from before (Chris Stefanik & Fr Mike) and they always speak thoughts which are wise and sincere. Truly inspiring documentary. Thank you
+Matthew Bagley But why is it that straight Catholics say gay Catholics "suffer internally" from same sex attraction but gay Catholics say they don't? Isn't suffering supposed to be expressed by the person supposedly suffering? I hear this "suffering with same sex attraction" phrase over and over by straight Catholics and rarely , if ever , hear it from gay Catholics. That makes no sense. The only suffering I've heard from gay people is due to constantly being put down and judged by straight people and the Churches that don't accept them....not because they're gay.
+atheistexchristian every one of the testimonies in the video are from gay Catholics who suffered internally. I think that's where his comment came from.
This really touched my heart, and I believe God pointed out this video for me. Hearing about everything and true love filled my heart with peace and joy. I started dancing to the video with excitement. I’m not gay, that’s not my identity, I AM CATHOLIC!!!!!
What a beautiful film. I was brought to tears. I pray that more people with same sex attractions see this and know they are loved...in the Catholic Church.
I'm not Catholic, but this presentation is excellent, excellent, excellent!!! I hope everyone views this video because it is so hopeful and encouraging!
Don't Lie A bigot is someone who cannot tolerate the views of others. I can and do tolerate other views even when I don't agree with them. I'm sorry that you have to reduce yourself to name-calling and demeaning in order to express your feelings. I wish you well on your journey!
Catherine Fanto Then I owe you a semi apology. But that you think a video like this that clearly discriminates against the LGBT community is disturbing. Maybe you're not aware of Catholic history, but in a nutshell...it's not very honorable. There was a time when the Catholic Church actually condoned burning gay people, and gay clergy to death. The priest who made this video is a full time bigot who constantly lies and lied in this film about who gay people really are. In fact, one of the women ...Miranda ...isn't actually gay but bisexual and has been married to a man since she was 20 and has 6 kids. Interesting how they left that out. There's so much more to the darkness of this Church and this video ...so maybe you should look into it more before complimenting them
Don't Lie I don't understand how it discriminates against them, honestly. It's just a hopeful, encouraging message for those who don't want to pursue homosexual lifestyles. If that's not you, that's okay. I am aware of some of the Catholic history, as well as Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc. All of us have sinned, for sure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't seek our highest good, according to God's plan for us. I wish you well on your journey, wherever it takes you!
Catherine Fanto Well how about if the Catholic Church said fat old biddies named Catherine are disgusting old crones who need to be ignored and needs to shut up with her fat old biddie stupid comments? I bet you'd think that was discrimination real quick
'...because, those people with those attractions, they belong here in the (Catholic) Church - this is their home!! ' ✨⚡💚🕊🌿 'Come all of you who are thirsty, come all of you who are hungry !' Also I am a eunuch, and blessed !
Such an excellent affirmation of God's love for all of us. There are so many people who are confused or feel unwanted because of their self perception of sexual orientation. It makes me happy to hear such a even handed approach to such a seemingly confusing and contreversial subject. Well Done.
***** Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
Wow!!! ... This is awesome ... and does a very good job of presenting the Church teaching and pastoral response ... and it is well to put it as being the Third Way. Well done. GOD Bless you all.
The video implies that the mental health struggles of LGBT individuals resulted due to their active participation w/in the LGBT community. It appears instead that it is their inability to participate in both their church community and LGBT community concurrently. This is a direct effect of the policy stance of the Catholic Church. This is trure more broadly as well. It is not the intrinsic nature of being gay which causes a person to struggle w/ mental health issues, but instead the lack of acceptance a gay person feels from society. This is an environment that the Catholic Church is complicit in fostering. They can claim to be much more accepting today (despite still falling very short), but need to take responsibility for the damage they have done historically.
Wrong, they mention being accepted by the other gay people around them, but they did not want the gay sexual relationship that they had with some. The one lady was part of a gay church and was accepted but still decided that that was not the right place and that there was something off.
@ and what does that have to do with the fact that they felt a lack of something when they were apart of the LGBTQ community? I seem to recall that they felt accepted by the Carholic Church in the end
As someone who experiences same-sex attraction, I can tell you that I've been more accepted by the Church for who I am than by the LGBT community. The Church has healed me. Is it hard to give up a homosexual lifestyle: yeah. But If we're talking mental health and wellness, I was not well when I lived the promiscuous lifestyle. I am now, now that I'm living chastely. If I ever felt a lack of acceptance from the Church, it was because my LGBT friends were telling me to. It was my own shame and guilt. It was not the Church. The Church and her ministers and Christ have only made me feel loved and accepted.
As someone who has dealt with SSA since adolescence, I can attest to a great deal that the men (and to an extent, the women) have said in this film. As the nun said: "We can have lots of sex with no intimacy and we can have lots of intimacy without sex." In today's society (regardless of orientation, etc.), I cannot honestly think of a more profoundly true statement. In addition, as the other woman stated, The Catholic Church [but IMO, particularly more emphasis is needed in those practicing the protestant faith] needs to place a heavy emphasis on welcoming those who live and practice lives of both singleness and chastity. Remember: Jesus, our Lord and Savior, was both single and chaste and remains the greatest example of such traits to have ever lived. Ave Maria. Kyrie Eleison. Christe Eleison.
Great documentary! I like how it gets rid of the false beliefs that the secular world says the Church preaches. This video should be shown everywhere, and include even more people.
pianoplayer7577 Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
Jose Antonio Sanchez Actually Jesus said nothing about gay people. Paul, who many think was a self loathing gay man who hated gays much like self loathing gay priests and ministers who hate gays...was the one who mouthed off about it. Still ,even Paul never said anything about loving gay relationships.
What a beautiful film of love and our Lords message to all His children! Thank you for posting. I went from being a Catholic judging but now I see the Catholic I'm called to be...one of love for all my brothers and sisters. I pray I can spend eternity with all of you...worshipping our Father, Son and Holy Spirit forever!
This is beautiful. One area in which we need to change and grow is in building and being a community. This needs to happen. I think each of the people in this film has been touched by someone who took the time to be in relationship with them.
If we only did what one lady and gentleman said: "Falling in love with her creator " .... "building a strong foundation on GOD". The hate would leave and the Love would flow to all the children of GOD>
I don't understand why people are giving this film a thumbs down. This video is not bashing or slamming anyone, it's simply presenting the Church's view on the matter, and it's doing so very respectfully and humbly. I don't understand why people feel the need to criticise the Church for simply presenting another perspective other than the one mainstream society presents.
The film seems very well intended and raises some important points that need careful consideration. It presents as a bit narrow though as there are many things about same sex relationships that the Church and science have been coming to understand more fully since the original teaching was formulated. That’s not to say that the teaching is automatically outdated or wrong. It’s just to say that the conversation is complex and needs openness and a willingness to let the questions continue to move and challenge us. That’s what I mean by the film seeming to be narrow. It presents people, for the most part, who are gay and very troubled (depressed, abused, confused, self-deprecating…) and then come to an understanding that they must simply refrain from the “gay lifestyle” and they will be “cured”, or “healed”. To me, that approach risks a perceived suggestion that the person is gay because they had “issues” with their father, or were sexually abused, or had some other hardship/disorder, rather than homosexuality as a sexual orientation that can be there since birth. The Church’s teaching on homosexuality is focused mostly on acts not so much on sexual orientation. CCC states, “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered” (CCC #2357). And, although the CCC references the Scriptures, both Hebrew and Christian, these references do not address the whole issue and are fairly meager at best. Jesus does not even mention homosexuality, and you could even read that He is not very interested in talking about it. So there are different ways to have the discussion.
One of the things I have heard is that the discussion on same-sex attraction should not be a discussion of identity, but a discussion of quality. You're right; a 40 minute documentary won't do much to change anybody's mind. And while Jesus never explicitly spoke about homosexuality, the Moral Law in the Old Testament condemns homosexual acts multiple times.
@@PrivateGrotto Bigger Picture: the entire Bible is the "Word of God". Jesus is "The Word" who comes from God. So on a broad scale, everything in the Bible comes from God. Even if Jesus didn't explicitly say something in the Gospels, His teaching comes through every moral teaching in the Gospels. Remember in Genesis, God says "The entire world has been made in preparation for humanity to enter it. Now it's time to introduce mankind." Then He makes a man and a woman. God created their bodies specifically so that they would reproduce by having sex. Then God's very first words to the very first husband and wife are "Be fruitful and multiply." Sex is built into us as humans; scientific studies keep ending up rediscovering that men and women work best in intimate relationships as 1:1 for pair bonding. We were not built for homosexual acts. Besides the health problems that result from them, God forbids them in both the Old and New Testaments. I don't think TH-cam likes links posted in comments, but look up the Catholic Answers article, "The Bible on Homosexual Behavior".
Zelix B Thankyou for that hateful anti social response...clearly you are just one of millions who goes to church and pretends to be holy!!! I get you are one chromosome away from being a potatoe however you can drop your pathetic persecution complex because its really boring and I never said it was just the church that molested children however when religions clean up their own child molesting sin and start paying taxes on their billion $ pedophile fund (they spend millions on legal fees for pedo priests THEY chose to hide and protect for decades) then maybe they can judge the sins of others There are child predators in all walks of life but the way I walk it would be reported to police and I dont believe for one 2nd that if you were threatened with being banished from the church you would go to the police about abuse.... You claim to be a person of god yet look at the way you speak to people. You are just a nasty, spiteful person who hides behind a cloak of religion and a child raping entity as an excuse to spread hate like cancer.. You are seriously what is wrong with this world and you should reflect on your own behaviour and see what religion has lead you to become.
Victoryin Christo Maybe you don’t condone it, and that’s good, but unfortunately the Catholic hierarchy has always acted very suspiciously when it comes to deal with this matter...I don’t remember anyone calling the police on father Marcial Maciel, and please don’t tell me you don’t know who he was...he was simply suspended from his pastoral functions and sent to a priests house here in the United States, where he died peacefully without having to answer for his crimes. And, sadly for the Church, this is not by far the only case...
@@basiliskos119 All horrendous acts of sexual immorality committed by the clergy are inexcusable. That is why a new dawn has appeared. It is up to the LAITY to hold the Church hierarchy accountable!
i deeply thank you for taking the time to make this video, it is extremely necessary and useful to contribute to our long haul journey which growing on chastity is for all of us, all persons no matter our condition, thanks to keep up in the battle against evil in all its forms, so that love can truly reign.
So glad this is available here. More people will find it. I really respect the people who participated in this film, sharing their experience of being homosexual and Catholic, they really together show the complexity of Same Sex Attraction and also the true freedom that can be found in Christ and the Church.
Mary Corripio Calls for speculation....Perhaps they would, perhaps they wouldn't. Who knows?!? Yes, I watched this film. The fact of the matter is, the bishops at that synod SCRAPPED the welcoming of gays to the Catholic Church. Gays are either welcome there, or they are not. You can't have it both ways.
Thank you so much for this movie. As a mom, raising my kids in Sweden, where the gender ideology is tought to kids in such a wrong way, I can only thank you for giving me input to talk to my kids about the issue in a good perspective, reinforcing what I already teach them. God bless you and your project.
It is time to recognize that not all humans of any particular orientation are exactly the same. Imagine that, a gay person who is individuated rather than trapped in a socially imposed identity.
If you are gay, you are gay. Nothing is changing that. God loves you. Be a genuinely good person and you will be just fine. Its WAY deeper than being gay. Any sexual act that isn't between a MARRIED man and woman is "sin" according to the bible. The higher power loves you!! Ignore the hate.
It is not hate to say, 'Turn away from sin." I believe you are correct. There is no changing of sexual orientation. However, just because someone has urges, attractions, and desires does not mean they should act on them. Jesus Christ offered his humanity to atone for our sins. There is no greater love than that.
Keep in mind we live in a world with billions who believe in MANY different things. Does not make what they believe in wrong and what you believe in wrong. Jesus is not the only way things are seen. At all. You are never wrong for how you are born. And if you weren't born that way you cannot say if it's possible or not.
And that is my point. You are completely entitled to your beliefs. Just like billions of other people are. What you believe is what you believe is right. What other people believe is what other people believe is right. Just because you strongly feel a certain way does not mean that other people are wrong for what they strongly feel. Man would become extinct if every single person became homosexual and that is fact. Fortunately, that will never happen. Homosexual practices have always been around. Men were having sex with men since the beginning of time and the same with women. The same with animals. It is what it is.
"Faith is not a good way to truth" ~ according to whom? If others choose faith and share faith, what business is it of yours? You are free to walk away. "You're hurting(and lying) to gay people by saying they choose to be gay, and try to brainwash them that they're going to hell (when you have no good objective evidence for this). ~ Nobody here has intimated that gay people choose their orientation. I am a gay man, and can certainly tell you I didn't. We don't brainwash. Do you know what brain washing is? "The bible is full of contradictions....and fallacies" ~ Lets see you be specific. I'll gladly address what you see as contradictions or fallacies.
"Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed." (Fr. Richard John Neuhaus). Jesus asks each of us "Who do you say I am?" (Mark 8:29).
The Catholic Church teaches that active sexuality is for marriage between a man and a woman. When I was a kid (male)I was attracted to girls but knew that I must not have any sexual contact with a girl. I was never attracted-sexually-to other males, but I have a great number of good friends who love and care for me. I also have many female friends who I am not attracted to sexually. They are good friends who also love and care for me. I have a wife, and we have children and all the other graces that go with married life.
Then all catholic married couples are guilty of abusing their spouses by keeping chaste and celibate when they no longer want to produce children. There is a difference between celibacy and sex for the sake of selfish pleasure. That's all I am going to say to you about this. If you don't like it, then I wish you well and hope that you find God. God Bless You!!!
Every person interviewed in this film, and every person living "The Third Way" is a hero. May God continue to bless you. May God heal all of us, so that we may serve our brothers and sisters like Christ would.
Steven Patrick Stone Ah yes, the new flippant use of the word 'bigot' to describe anyone who disagrees with you. The word will cease to have any relevancy when you simply apply to anyone and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. You know, Steve, I think you are a bigot. Just kidding....actually, maybe you are. A 'bigot' against Catholics. Dictionary definition: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices -- well, Steven, that might actually be you.
***** "You are Peter and on this rock (in Aramaic this is the same word as Peter) I will build my church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." (somewhere in Matthew don't know off the top of my head) Jesus instituted one church, his mystical body, and the only church around that has existed from the beginning is the Catholic (universal) Church. There is tons of biblical evidence that supports Catholic teaching (the Catholic Church canonized the books of the Bible and preserved it accurately for 2000 years BTW). The best resource is the Catholic Catechism. This is the body of teaching that contains all Catholic beliefs, practices, theology, etc. Read it if you get a chance, it sites tons of sources from Holy Scripture, early church fathers, doctors of the church, papal encyclicals, etc. Talk to a priest, they are happy to talk to anyone. I hope to see you in the One, Catholic, and Apostolic Church one day my friend. I was on a search for truth for about ten years and it finally led me to the Catholic Church. Search for the truth always, and don't give up until you find it. In the mean time, remember that the word Catholic means "universal", meaning both Jews and Gentiles are accepted into the Church (God's eternal family). The earliest description of this community of the New Covenant Jesus instituted was the word "Catholic". The curtain of the temple that separated the Gentile court from the Jewish court was torn down the middle when Jesus died. Jesus Christ came gather everyone to God through his sacrifice, regardless of race, nationality, etc...hence the earliest description of the community that followed Christ, "Catholic" which means universal. It's there man, you'll find it. BTW, Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist in every Catholic Mass around the world. As a protestant who converted to the Catholic faith, it is absolutely indescribable to be in the real presence of Jesus, God Incarnate, at every Mass....it's HOME!
***** I agree with you that Jesus never said outright, "this is going to be called The Catholic Church". But if you're truly interested in the truth you should check out the writings of the early church fathers. This can help you get some insight into this issue.
It's ironic the people bashing these courageous people. ..are the ones calling for equality and tolerance and rights but when someone wants another option or way out of this sinful behaviour they're the first ones to strip them of any rights. ..even being hateful and bigoted but the reality is they're hate for the Catholic church is the primary reason. ..because it refuses to make homosexuality not a sin we are all sinners called to repent and sin no more. ..this particular sin is no different. .it separates us from the love of God. .
Manuel Garcia because they are insisting that they are "disordered" and that being gay isn't really that whole. some of these people are even involved in the ex-gay movement.
David identified as a Catholic man. ..not a homosexual Catholic. .big difference. But I respect your point there has been some confusion. .created by some suggesting it's ok to live this way continue acting it out and worse even promoting it I didn't see any of that in these stories in fact I'd say they rejected the sinful behaviour themselves as we are all called to do. With any sin fornication cohabitation. Etc. .
it's not much of a third way cause being gay is more than gay behavior, but when gays get into relationships, most of the time it's out of love. St. Paul said we shouldn't force celibacy on anyone, and the church didn't even start stopping people from getting into these relationships until the 12th century.
I'm a lesbian. And I love God so much. I have felt nothing but love from my God. And I can't wait for God to bring me my wife, and for me to truly be able to love someone, and to have a family. Thank you for loving and supporting the LGBTQ community.❤️
Love is willing the good of the other. To truly love someone is to protect that person from sin and from turning away from God’s divine plan. And to intentionally deprive a child of a father is objectively wrong.
Lauren, since you are a lesbian, I don’t think God is calling you to marriage in this case. I think he is more likely calling you to serve him as a single person like St. Paul did. God doesn’t make junk, but he also expects us to follow his commandments.
@@jessondesign Are you sure? You can always have a close friendship with them, but I know from the Catholic Church’s teachings that God’s design for the sacrament of marriage is to be between a man and a woman. If God is truly calling you to marriage, you may actually be bisexual rather than a lesbian. Perhaps you should consider going to Eucharistic Adoration and asking the Lord what he wants from you. Allow him to guide you. You’re a daughter of Christ and a part of his family. I will be praying for you.
You make me so proud to be a Catholic. 😪😪🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😇😇😇😇 Thank you for caring enough about these souls to take all the bullets and arrows and hate for them. CHRIST IS KING 👑
rafaelfcf You all understand that this is basically saying... "Its 'okay' to be 'gay' / Be Catholic / but...Don't have sex with men, unless you're married to a woman..then you can sleep with a woman"
yes. Sex has a proper context in the Christian tradition - it has never been about just doing what makes us "happy" in the moment. Sex is only to be experienced in the context of marriage, and marriage of course is only between a man and a woman in the Christian tradition for obvious reasons. We'll see if America sticks to its roots and sides with the Christian tradition or if America will break from its Christian heritage, redefine and radically alter what marriage means, and begin thinking of sex only as something pleasurable between two (or three or more) people
I look forward to a world where we all live for today and plan for tomorrow together. So much could be achieved if we worked toward furthering our knowledge as human beings, rather than remembering some made up story that was once used to teach good 'manners' more or less... The churches over the years have undergone some major changes in its teachings...not just catholic. Unfortunately I will not be so easily swayed by some commercial begging for followers because now the church, as a business and like any entity planning on living amongst the rest of us in a civilized society, has finally gotten the message that Hate and fear will no longer work. It's time for the miracles inside every one of us... Father Hollowell, I understand this has been your life for some amount of time now, but honestly, is it something you believe because you must? That there is a god working with us and watching for us? Have we never had faith in humanity so we had to create something 'greater' for inspiration? Technology has given us a great gift by bringing us together. We can all teach each other the ways of the world we live in with the click of a button. I remember 15 years ago having to learn that Santa Claus wasn't real by reading the dictionary. Now kids have it easy, and hopefully these religious propaganda commercials haven't flooded our cyber space.
We love you, but we want all Catholics to vote for politicians that hate you and don't think you should be alive. We love you, but we can't back legislation that would make it illegal for your boss to fire you for being gay, or prevent your landlord from evicting you for being gay, or let a doctor or nurse turn you away because you're gay. And it's not gay and lesbian, it's "same-sex attraction" since labels don't matter, but I'm straight because that's how God made me. It sounds a whole lot like Catholics will love us when we meet their conditions. Until then, they'll just talk about how their sins aren't as bad as our sins.
They love you either way, the love everyone and they will always do. If you dont believe in god just see nature all sexual ineractios are done to provide new life we arent talking about god. Gay sex is not opened to life is just pleasure. And you being a person as aristoteles said makes yo be able to think and reason but you can also guide your self by pure stimulus such as pleausre. If you do the second think you are acting as an animal, as you are losing the only charactteristic that makes humans better, the reaosing capability.
@@pablogimenezmorera2559then all romantic interaction should be prohibited before marriage. No dating, no holding hands, no school dances like the prom or winter formals. All marriages need to be arranged simply for procreating - nothing more.
***** Well... look, I'm sure you mean well and I'm sure you just want answers. And as much as I love biblical theology, I don't do debates on TH-cam (for my own personal reasons) unless they are ones of movies or TV shows on my TH-cam Channel. I hope you understand I have no hard feelings against you for asking. :) I just don't like debating on TH-cam. However, feel free to ask anyone else who would like to debate! I hope you find the answers you're looking for. God bless and Merry Christmas to you!
***** The largest group/% of pedophiles in the United States is parents and yet we don't go around accusing every parent of being a pedophile. Your hate is based on bias not logic. It's time to fact check your emotions.
httyd2sonic Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
Steven Patrick Stone I'm sorry, but your argument is without basis because I've never said anything even close to that. So until you have full proof that I've said that, your argument is completely illogical, invalid, and uncalled for.
I wish I met the sort of people who are in this film. I am a catholic gay living totally alone in the Czech republc. I have no any family who would really belive in God.. After the death of my special frined I stayed totally alone and to be in touch with such people would help me. Oh, my Dearst God, help me, please someone liek they are on this film.
boicetar "equal rights" - what a convenient phrase - just call whatever you want to see the laws be called "equal rights" Are you going to enter into substantive dialogue, or are you just going to say everyone is an idiot who doesn't think like you do
boicetar well there's tolerance for you! 1) If the 14th amendment is so obviously permissive of same sex people being married, why did the current president change his mind only about 2 years ago? 2) I didn't compare gays to pedophiles. I pointed out that it is ironic for Redmond to highlight the abuse crisis as undermining the Church's position to speak on marriage when many of the abusing priests were abusing people of the same sex. If Redmond's logic holds, then the LGBTQ community would also be unable to speak on marriage. 3) I didn't compare marriage "equality" to the "Mark of the Beast" (I didn't think you read anything that I wrote, and this confirms it) I said those who are switching their profile pictures are adopting a sign of the Devil
Father John Hollowell I never said I was tolerant of lies and bigotry, what made you think that? To quote you..."but using that poor logic, given the fact that the majority of children abused were boys and young men, wouldn’t that make the abusing priests also members of the LGBQT community? Therefore, by your logic, the LGBQT community has no moral authority to say that the Church is wrong either.” You also posted a rap song that compares gays to pedophiles that exist today on your blog (on-this-rock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/macklemore-artistic-response.html) Lastly, here is your blog post...(on-this-rock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-mark-of-beast.html) Kind of hard to backtrack on your own words. Apologize and stop the lies. There is nothing loving about your message. You owe the gay community a huge apology.
Father John Hollowell BTW, pedophilia is sick criminal activity...not a sexual orientation. Most male pedophiles who abuse boys are in an adult relationship with mothers. Most have never had an adult relationship with another man. Get your facts straight before spreading this slander.
Father John Hollowell Whose fault do you think it is that the homosexual orientation exists to begin with? Who has the power to make everybody "straight" but doesn't?
I don't doubt that these people are sincere but the fact that they're all the victim of abuse and bad relationships with their parents should tell you something: that the church is taking advantaged of hurt people. None of these things are what make a person gay. It's not a bad parent relationship, or lonliness, or isolation or depression. It's not drugs, it's not lack of same-gender friends or masculine influence. It's certainly not that you don't know how to play sports. These are all ridiculous stereotypes that are focused on hear to give the impression that there's a clear causative influence from a previous event and that event is always negative. This is to reinforce the idea that Queer people are broken or incomplete. When the reality is that those are the only people vulnerable enough to be sucked into this nonsense "ex-gay" propaganda. ... There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle, just like there is no such thing as the straight lifestyle. Queer people are just people. ... Nowhere in the Bible does scripture ever claim that sex is exclusively for reproduction, in fact scripture speaks far more often the enjoyment of sex. "When the church says that same-sex attraction is inherently disordered, what they're saying is that desire can't be fulfilled according to the design of our bodies." Oh you sweet summer child, I assure you that it can. Why else would people keep doing it. ... So in the end the "Third-way" is to change nothing about the doctrine, teaching or gender ideology of the church, but to do everything the exact same way while being polite. No reexamination of the mistakes of the past or how they happened, no consideration of what is cultural versus what is inerrant and true, just the same old ideas in a different coat of paint. And they present it so _earnestly_ as if being nice and decent is this radical new Catholic invention. Apologizing for mistreatment is the bare minimum and this isn't something that the church decided on its own, it was forced into this position by decades of Queer activism and massive social pressure. And even in this supposedly enlightened state they can't even admit fault for their part in the proliferation of HIV during the AIDS crisis or even their continued attempts to stop the distribution of condoms to people who otherwise couldn't afford them or the medication should they become infected. There are millions of people dead and who will continue to die because the church hated gay people so much they were content to watch every single one of them die. Never mind how the primary victim of HIV are poor and majority heterosexual.
Estás cometiendo varios errores en tus planteos. Primero, interpretando por tu propia cuenta las escrituras, lo cual no es un método admitido por la Iglesia para formular doctrinas teológicas y morales. Segundo, asumiendo que las escrituras son la única fuente de la revelación divina. A partir de ambos errores, ambos producto de la teología protestante, provienen todos los demás, primero porque el sexo si tiene un fin reproductivo, algo que se puede comprender sin necesidad si quiera de apelar a la doctrina católica. Basta con entender que somos una especie sexuada producto de la evolución para considerar desordenes todas las conductas que no afecten la continuidad de la especie. Asumís que el fin último es el único, cuando no es así, el fin último de todas las cosas es Dios y hacia Él están todas ordenadas. Por eso el sexo tiene además otros fines, como el unitivo, a través del placer. Ignorando lo primero consideras falso lo segundo, si la doctrina de la Iglesia es revelada por Dios no puede cambiar con el tiempo porque Dios no cambia porque el ser es ininmutable, si cambiara la doctrina la Iglesia afirmaría que Dios no existe. Finalmente cometés el peor y más grave error al asumir una filosofía utlitaria y liberal sumamente dañina donde lo que prima es la felicidad y el bienestar de la mayoría sin importar la moralidad de los medios ni el perjuicio de otros. De ahí deducís que el fin del hombre es la satisfacción de sus necesidades (el placer sexual) y que para prevenir un mal (una pandemia) es posible tolerar uno menor (el uso de anticonceptivos). Pocas veces se ve una concatenación de errores históricos en el argumento de una sola persona, en otras palabras estás fundamentando que la Iglesia Católica está en la verdad.
@@facundobellog "Primero, interpretando por tu propia cuenta las escrituras, lo cual no es un método admitido por la Iglesia para formular doctrinas teológicas y morales. Segundo, asumiendo que las escrituras son la única fuente de la revelación divina." Yo he interpretado las escrituras como cada human antes de yo. Todo idioma humano es interpretivo, es un hecho inevitable de la lengua. La burocracia de la iglesia puede quejar como ellos quieren pero la verdad es que ellos no son inmunes a prejuicios or la falibilidad humana. Cada "autoridad" de interpretación ha fallado en algún punto, es nada más que ignorancia pura decir que solo hay un fuente para interpretaciones correctas. ... Igualmente puedes creer en cualquier tipo de autoridad si quieres, pero si consideras que la Biblia es autoritario no puedes ignorarla cuando doctrine moderna la contradice. "A partir de ambos errores, ambos producto de la teología protestante" El origin de una idea es irrelevante, también es falso decir que el hecho de la naturaleza interpretivo de un texto o la autoridad de la biblia don ideas protestantes. "provienen todos los demás, primero porque el sexo si tiene un fin reproductivo" Puede ser sí, pero el mano tiene un fin también, y ese no es tocar el violín. Pero eso no significa que tocar as algo immoral. Mientras tanto, el sexo en sus funciones como un herimiento social y como un fuente de placer y actividad saludable so muchísimas más naturales que el violín. "algo que se puede comprender sin necesidad si quiera de apelar a la doctrina católica." La doctrina puede ser lo que sea, pero es un hecho observable en todas las sociedades del mundo(hoy y en el pasado) que sexo tiene otras funciones aparte de la reproducción. "Basta con entender que somos una especie sexuada producto de la evolución para considerar desordenes todas las conductas que no afecten la continuidad de la especie." Esa es una idea ridícula y bastante secular. La reproducción no es una necesidad moral. Ni Jesús ni Pablo tuvieron hijos, Pablo específicamente recomendó que la gente evita el matrimonion cuando possible. Aún en un punto de vista puramente científica la reproducción no es universalmente necesario. Las abejas son ejemplas perfectas, la mayoría de las abejas son estériles. Si eso fue cambiado sería desastroso para la especie. Esta tendencia también existe en los mamíferos como la suricata, y también en varias sociedades humanos. La reproducción no es, y nunca fue, moralmente necesario. Obviamente los sacerdotes no tienen familias, pero eso no es desorden. Es fácil imaginar los beneficios de parientes gays, todos los beneficios de relaciones interpersonales y de un adulto capaz, sin el riesgo o la mengua de otros niños. Niños con dos padres y parientes extras que son completamente dedicadas as su bien tienen más ventajas que niños con solo dos padres. "Por eso el sexo tiene además otros fines, como el unitivo, a través del placer." Eso fue mi punto. Uno de ellos por lo menos. "Ignorando lo primero consideras falso lo segundo, si la doctrina de la Iglesia es revelada por Dios no puede cambiar con el tiempo porque Dios no cambia..." Podría estar de acuerdo con esto, pero es un hecho bien obvio en la historia que la doctrina particionado por la iglesia ha cambiado varias veces. El imperialismo de Latinoamerica es solo un ejemplo de acciones immorales que fueron apoyadas por la iglesia. "si cambiara la doctrina la Iglesia afirmaría que Dios no existe." Eso tambien es muy extremo. No es una gran sorpresa que humanos fallan, la inhabilidad de los humanos cristianos no es un comentario sobre la naturaleza de Dios. "Finalmente cometés el peor y más grave error al asumir una filosofía utlitaria y liberal sumamente dañina donde lo que prima es la felicidad y el bienestar" Es verdad que creo que la felicidad y el bienestar son importantes. Sufrimiento no es una virtud. Al mismo tiempo, esas no son las ideas que iniciaron mi preocupación. El problema principal es que los ideas patrocinado por este video son falsas. No combinan con la realidad de las relaciones gays ni con comportamiento real. No tienen motivos validos(si es que tienen un motivo) y a veces sus idea contradicen el texto de la biblia, encima de todas las otras faltas de coherencia. No es valido criticar mis preceptos supuestos cuando no los conoces, y mis laas razones par mis quejas son explícitas. "De ahí deducís que el fin del hombre es la satisfacción de sus necesidades (el placer sexual)" Incorrecto. Eso no lo creo. "...y que para prevenir un mal (una pandemia) es posible tolerar uno menor (el uso de anticonceptivos)." Eso también es falso. Simplemente es que no considero los anticonceptivos a ser un mal. No tengo ninguna razón para creer eso y luego no siento ninguna obligación a negociar para su uso. Son Herramientas. Yo si creo que el sufrimiento sin causa es un mal, eso es verdad, cual sí incluso la imposición de complejos sexuales sin sentido, pero no considero que el deseo para sexo justifica todo. Ese es una crasa torsión de mi opinion. "Pocas veces se ve una concatenación de errores históricos en el argumento de una sola persona, en otras palabras estás fundamentando que la Iglesia Católica está en la verdad." Ningún parte de este comentario fue sobre un error de hechos históricos, si quieres hablar de la historia podemos, pero todo esto so ha sido tus suposiciones de mis ideas reales. Aún en el caso que yo so incorrecto, ese no evidencia que la iglesia católica es más correcta. De hecho solo prueba que cada humano es fallible. Cual era un de mis puntos.
Todos estamos llamados a ser Santos... esa es, nuestra vocación! Realmente hermosa manera de representar verdaderamente la mirada que tiene la Iglesia Católica, hacia este tema. Es así, cuando uno conoce a Dios como dice Santa Teresa de Ávila "Sólo Dios basta" ¡bellísimo! Gracias por hacer este tipo de trabajos, puesto que el mundo en general tiene una mirada tan tergiversada de la Iglesia y de Jesús. Y de ver que para Dios nada es imposible y Él todo lo hace nuevo, es un mensaje lleno, lleno de esperanza, lo que más me impacto era ver los rostros llenos de paz de cada uno de estos chicos y chicas valientes, hermanos míos en Cristo viviendo la castidad, todos estamos llamados a vivir este gran don. Que Dios les siga bendiciendo. ¡Gracias!
This is the Catholic Church's teachings on Homosexuality. Think about it, in Heaven there is only ONE truth. If you want to be happy in this world, and one with God, the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the next, we must humble ourselves and seek the truth that God has clearly given us. This is a choice you make! No one is forcing you to know God, love God and serve God! You have a free will to choose. If you choose the Christian way then you are called to live a life "set apart" from the world. This is not easy, even Jesus said: take up your cross and follow me. The video says; You are made for more than what you might desire right now. All Christians are all called to love through purity!. Remember, the Bible says: The way to Heaven is a narrow path, not a wide road. This culture and the Godless world we live in wants you to believe, if it feel good do it. God's word is clear about sexual pleasure, and all of the areas of our lives. Try His way not the highway. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to help us. This is the same Holy Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead! Open your life to God's love and mercy for you! He stands at the door and knocks.
There's only one TRUTH, everywhere. Truth is, that some people ARE biologically born to develop SSA. Look up EPIGENETICS. That is TRUTH. And it's also TRUTH that 2+2 equals 4. And that the sky is blue.
+atheistexchristian - Yep. That's the problem with this mindset. People have substituted truth with belief and faith. Truth and fact are what they should be 'faithful' to. And they need to 'believe' that they can discover scientific facts. Modern religion is largely based on dogma - and on what ancient Roman emperors (disguised as bishops) have dictated to be true. They took the esoteric form of Christianity, hid the real knowledge, and threw in the Sol Invictus astrotheology as a proxy.
I'm glad this is here. The Catholic Church doesn't _want_ to hurt anyone, but at the same time it believes that marriage has a certain essential character, and that calling homosexual unions "marriages" would (given said understanding of marriage) simply be to defy reality. Thus, it opposes same-sex marriage, but not because it hates homosexuals. A consequence of this is that we have to provide those with same-sex attraction with a viable alternative, that is, we need to show them that there's a vocation they can live, such that they can live in a way that pleases God. We do have to be careful not to bow to the _zeitgeist_ and abandon our historical teaching on the nature of marriage, but we also have to be careful not to fall into the opposite trap of being too rigorous and unkind, of just telling people with SSA what they can't do and not helping them with the problems that are inevitably going to follow from trying to live a celibate life. I Thank God that people like this exist; perhaps we can finally start to clear the Church's name and treat this issue the way it deserves to be treated.
***** You seem to think that, because the Second Edition had different text, then that proves some dastardly conservative conspiracy against homosexuals. It _is not_ so. The historic teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter of homesexual acts (note the distinction between _being attracted to persons of the same sex_ and _performing sex acts with persons of the same sex_) is that they just are intrinsically disordered. This means that it conflicts with the ends given for us by the _natural law_ (that is, what-is-objectively-good-for-us-given-the-type-of-creatures-we-are), because the final end (purpose) of sex is procreation, and homosexual acts are by definition not the sort of things that can result in procreation. It's worth pointing out that this is not unique to the case of homosexual acts - the same is true of, say, masturbation, something I struggled with. The text is saying that the inclination to perform homosexual sex acts is an inclination towards something that frustrates (and thus is objectively contrary to) the natural ends of our sex organs, and thus bad, in the same way that voluntarily wearing a blindfold is frustrating/acting contrary to the natural ends of your visual organs). This does not conflict in any way with the First Edition, because the First Edition says that they do not choose to be inclined towards disordered acts. Being no biologist, I have no idea whether that's always true or not, but I'll grant for the sake of argument that it is. The Second Edition says that homosexual acts are contrary to nature. This is perfectly consistent with the First Edition because the fact that someone doesn't choose to be tempted in such-and-such a way is perfectly consistent with holding that _acting_ on said temptation is still morally wrong. After all, someone with a genetic disposition towards alcoholism is predisposed to a certain temptation (intemperate use of alcohol), and his condition means that he is less culpable for alcoholism and deserves more sympathy and support than someone without this predisposition, but it still doesn't mean that it's actually good for him to drink himself stupid. The Second Edition, to me, sounds like an attempt to clarify the Church's teaching and make clear that "yes, homosexuals are not responsible for being the way they are. This does not mean that gay sex is OK, though" - there's a lot of people who would love to take ambiguities like that and turn them into arguments for "see, my gay marriage is perfectly compatible with the Church's teaching! After all, the Catechism doesn't explicitly say it isn't!" It sounds like an attempt to make teaching clear, not to "hate" gays, unless you think that not supporting someone's decision to engage in what you believe to be sinful behaviour counts as "hatred", in which case I suggest that your definition of hatred is incorrect and far too broad. Peace Eoin
***** So in other words, you have no case, and instead resort to mockery. Come on, if the Church was _really_ okay with homosexual sex before the 1970s, then you should be able to provide quotes from a couple of theologians, saints, popes, etc, to that effect. I have produced quotes that support my case, you ought to be able to support your case, rather than blithely asserting that I'm lying. Come on, if you've got proof, pony up and put your money where your mouth is.
***** God does not speak through popular vote. He established a Church, with a Magisterium that is infallible. One of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner so that they may see what they are doing and how they are rejecting Christ's love. I realize it's painful to hear, but the Magisterium is doing just that and will continue to do that for all eternity. That is God speaking. To be Catholic is to accept the teaching of the Magisterium. Anything else is, frankly, heresy. ***** Why would closeted gays punish other gays? That makes no sense. My best friend and cousin is a priest. Your statement is implying that he's bigoted, that he wouldn't be true to himself, and/or that he doesn't have genuine love and concern for those in his pastoral care. It pains me to see you insulting one of the most positive influences in my life.
Thank you for the blessing and well-wishing. I appreciate it. I can also appreciate that your values and the values of those around you mean a lot in this discussion. But I don't think it's fair to lie to me, to your personal friends and associates, and to people who will read these comments. My concern is not that your opinion and values are different from mine; it's that you are confusing the very definition of what it means to be Catholic (as are a lot of other "Catholics," to be sure.) I don't believe that you are lying on purpose, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. If you'll allow me, I'd like to explain. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) teaches that the Magisterium is infallible. CCC 2030: "From the Church [the Christian] receives the Word of God containing the teachings of 'the law of Christ.'" CCC 2033: "The Magisterium of the Pastors of the Church in moral matters is ordinarily exercised in catechesis and preaching, with the help of the works of theologians and spiritual authors." CCC 2034: "The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are 'authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them...'" CCC 2035: "The supreme degree of participation is the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed." But perhaps it seems a bit circular to take the word of the Church. In that case, you may find this explanation helpful: blog.newadvent.org/2013/03/watch-this-outspoken-atheist-penn.html If one believe that one's conscience holds more validity than Holy Mother Church, then this person either has inconsistent values or isn't a Catholic. If he claims to be Catholic, than he claims to be loyal to the Church and attacks the Church in the same breath. That's not fair to the Church, nor is it an opinion that brings clarity to the discussion. Because you asked, I personally have never had an issue with a teaching of the Magisterium that I took the time to study and understand. And I agree with the Church on contraception. A good friend of mine actually came back to the Church after really understanding the Church's teaching on the subject: stepsofstmarys.com/?p=261 One final thought: there's a difference between fundamentalism and orthodoxy (little o, not to be confused with the big o church). Catholics have never been, nor ever will be fundamentalists. The Magisterium has never taught that the Bible should be interpreted literally in all places. But we will stick to the teachings of the Church, which makes us orthodox. In my opinion, it is orthodox Catholics that you have an issue with, so it might help in future chats you have to use the more accurate term. Like I said, I don't mind that you disagree with the official teaching of the Church. Lots of people do. But it's not fair to conflate people who are better described as "Cafeteriolics" with those of us who are trying to live true to our values and beliefs. I hope you can see how hurtful it is to me when people misrepresent the Church I love so much. Thank you for taking the time to read what I had to say. Take care!
Just to put my two cents in... I am a gay Catholic. Both of these facets of my personality are very important to me; both make me what I am. If one is truly Catholic it permeates your whole sense of self and when you feel overwhelmed or crushed by societal norms Christ is there saying: Come to me all yee who are weary.... and Holy Mother Church is there saying: You are my child for whom Christ has given His life... I cannot stop being gay and I also cannot stop being a Catholic. I found great consolation within the Church, within the devotions, practices, sacraments.... Do not be afraid to speak to others. Confide in people. I was amazed at how accepting so many priests and religious were, how truly Christlike. And, always and again, pray! Do not abandon the good Lord and He will certainly not abandon you!
Steven Patrick Stone I won't attack, do not worry about that. Our thoughts/feelings happen to be quite on the same page. As for the haters, there is very little one can do about them except pray for them. I live in a part of the world where pretty much everyone is Catholic but I've come to realize that not all Catholics are necessarily Christians, if you get my meaning. I've often debated with some of them but sometimes it is to no avail. I do know that I am a Catholic, a child of God and of the Church and when my time comes to leave this world I dearly wish for a priest to be there to administer the sacraments to me and I know for a fact that God will judge us with a lot more mercy, kindness and compassion than our fellow men and women, not to mention our brothers and sisters in Chris,t do. That is a bit of a glum note to end on, but I will leave it. Would you perhaps care to keep in touch, maybe exchange emails..? Just a thought, no pressure. Let me know. God bless!
+legolasdbk Why would you be part of a church that continues to persecute you? You' aware it's a church that supports laws in places like Uganda that imprisons people for having a gay relationships? The pope never spoke out against it nor does the church. Are you aware that the Catholic church actively fights to legally take your rights away all over the world? The men in the church spend millions to help pass legislation that will discriminate against you. If a God exists do you really think he would condone what the Catholic church is doing against you? Don't you see evil in it all? Why would you be a part of an institution where evil resides? Why not join the Episcopal church that would accept you 100%, instead of the Catholic Church that accepts only part of who you are? It's always strange to me when I hear an LGBT person, their families, or friends say they're Catholic. It would be like a Jew saying they were Nazi during WW II or a black man who says he's part of the KKK. It makes no sense.
Faith is not a suit or a pair of socks to be changed so easily. That sort of "faith of convenience" is, in my own firmly held opinion, simply not an option. Being Catholic, a child of Christ and His Church, is not a club membership, to be discarded once it becomes inconvenient or hard to grasp. I BELIEVE in . . . one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church, the true Church, founded by Christ Himself upon the Rock that is Peter. How could I ever settle for less? That is the faith I was baptized in and that is the faith I hope to die in. I cannot state it more simply than that. You and I apparently have very different views and understanding of what the Church truly is, so perhaps we ought to, as the Americans like to say, "agree to disagree". It was never my wish to act apologetically or to proselytize, I simply offered my testimony, for whatever it is worth.
It really seems that people don't even watch the video and only come to scream their hate against the Catholic Church and impose their LGBT ideology since many of the things people are commenting here are already answered in the video.
I've watch 38 minutes and 14 seconds sadomasochism and bullshit. The church would love to make homosexuality illegal and would love to have temporal power that it lost centuries ago
Ken93 You know, name-calling and straw man fallacies are actually making you look as the ignorant here. You don't you actually make a reasonable argument agains what exactly was said in the video instead of name-calling with your prejudices. You don't know a thing about Catholicism, only prejudices typical of atheists and anti-catholics. Please do your research from catholic sources, then you can criticize.
+Carlos Ramirez + I know about Holy Mother Church and I find it wanting. I feel sorry for these people i want them to be happy and not die alone. No why was there reformation? Why in Ireland did the Church oppose a constitutional amendment to allow divorce??
+Ken93 Ken if you listen to what Francis said in his recent exhortation, he stressed *conscience*, the most important part of one's salvation. One's conscience goes above ANY other person's opinion, including hierarchy, and ALL Church teaching. Yes, Francis said that Church sanctioned marriage is between a man and a woman , he didn't change that doctrine. HOWEVER what he has changed is that he spoke of "irregular situations" which includes divorced people and people in LGBT relationships and civil marriages. Those who are in those "irregular relationships" are to use their own conscience and apply it to Church teaching in a way that benefits a persons spiritual life ....not takes away from it. In other words, if a gay person is in a relationship or a civil marriage , then he is to use his own conscience with God in order to assess the goodness of that relationship . NO ONE, NOT EVEN THE OFFICIAL CHURCH, can interfere with one's own , private conscience. SO please don't even listen to the trolls like this Carlos idiot, he's a 20 yr old with a 10 year old brain. He has no idea what life is about or how to respect people, respect the right of conscience, or what our Holy Father says. FRANCIS SAID AND I QUOTE " IT CAN NO LONGER BE SIMPLY BE SAID THAT ALL THOSE LIVING IN *ANY* IRREGULAR SITUATION ARE LIVING IN A STATE OF MORTAL SIN" END QUOTE !! Notice he said *ANY IRREGULAR SITUATION* !! That means those living together outside marriage, the divorced and remarried, and LGBT in relationships and civil marriages. He didn't specify just one type of irregular situation, but *ANY*. Don't listen to the far right conservative types like the Fr Hollowell's...they have an agenda that IS NOT aligned with the TRUTH of what Francis is teaching us. They ignore what Francis says and make up their own rules to suit their own bigotry. Be true to YOURSELF in good conscience... and you will be true to GOD ! Have a great day !! :)
My heart goes out to those people and their struggles. Being bullied at school etc.. One thing always strikes me as odd.. how did the other kids know about these attractions? Did they just guess it that those guys were different? These days, it is fashionable to flaunt one's sexual preferences, but it wasn't so in the 70's.. at least not everywhere.
God loves all of you just the way he made you, it is ok that one is a homosexual! You must show faith and devotion to god in the highest and not be evil. Beware of false prophets and have faith in the one true Catholic Church. Live your lives to the best person you are and there is nothing wrong with you.
Jacob Olsarnevich Have faith in JESUS, The Way, The Truth and The Life, the ONLY NAME by which we are saved. Inerrancy, infallibility and Truth are the preserve of God not of any Church. The Church is a congregation of sinners. Pope Zosimus condemned the Trinity. SS Athanasius and Hilary defended it. You cannot be a Christian without faith in the Trinity. Popes and the Roman Catholic Church are infallibly fallible.
So, for those who have been neglected and hurt by Catholics and clergy who failed to be compassionate - when will these individuals receive your apology? And does the apology include financial reparations for those who had to go to counseling and still continue to suffer from the backlash they got when they sought your help? A boy down south killed himself because a Catholic school outed him - but he didn't even admit to being gay. He was teased by false allegations. Is the church going to compensate for ALL same sex individuals who have suffered (to ANY degree) emotional and physical health? I went to catholic school and I wish I had the balls then, that I do today. Because now I SUFFER for their UN-christian actions. And I NEVER did or said anything about myself or to them. I'm 34 and I HAVE TO GO TO THERAPY. It HURTS. It HURTS so bad and I hate it. I have Tourette syndrome too. And every day I have to pretend that I'm happy. But I'm not. Don't even think for one minute that this video remotely suffices as an official apology.
Kiko Joseph There are countless LGBT people who experienced the same. I went to Catholic School too and I'm convinced that the bullying and harassment I got from other students was directly related to the Church's teaching that my sexual orientation is evil and "intrinsically disordered". The consensus of medical science and psychological experts , which is that being gay is a normal sexual orientation, never was mentioned in my 12 years of Catholic education. If supposedly our sexual identity is evil according to the Church, then saying being gay isn't a sin makes no sense. All the kids at school knew I was gay because I said so when I was 13. My good friend who lived next door to me told me not to hide who I really am because she said being gay isn't a sin, but she didn't realize that saying that is one thing but when everything about your sexual identity is supposedly evil you still get teased. The other kids treated me like I was less than they were and they made fun of me on a daily basis. EVERY DAY someone would say something to hurt my feelings because I was gay. I couldn't walk out in the corridors between classes without being taunted by someone. ALL of their taunting used words similar to "better not date anyone Stevie or you're going straight to hell " . One kid said " well Stevie I guess you'll never know what it feels like to fall in love and marry someone cuz our Church says if you do you'll burn forever". I will never forget that. Wow I was so hurt I went to a corner and cried. I went to the principal of the school and asked her to let me go home and she did. I think she knew what was going on but never said anything because she felt helpless. She couldn't really defend me because what the kids were saying to me was actual Catholic teaching, even though they said it in a cruel and taunting way, it was still true according to Catholic doctrine. The Sisters and lay teachers never defended me, just ignored it. The worse is that I found out many years later that a priest with whom I regularly served Mass turned out to be an accused pedophile in my state. One can look him up online very easily. I couldn't go to the prom so I missed both senior and junior prom because the school wouldn't allow me to bring this really nice guy I liked. I suffered SO BAD. I cried a lot. I was very solitary and had no friends. I never went to school parties because I felt like I was weird being there alone when others had the freedom to show their girlfriends and boyfriends and dance, with each other etc. I never joined clubs. I suffer for that abuse to this day. I know I will NEVER feel fully healed from that till the day I die. Especially because every time I get attacked online by the fundamental Catholics it brings me right back to those years in grammar and high school. This is why I won't stand for it now. I was so psychologically abused from this teaching that the thought of other LGBT innocent children going through the same breaks my heart. Fr Hollowell, and all the Catholics who support this (which is only 32% of the Church) will someday have to answer to God for what they've done. It's evil, and it's clearly child abuse. I want it to stop and I hope after the Supreme Court rules that legislation will be passed to make this Catholic teaching against the law and it will be treated as child abuse of LGBT children. Those teaching this should be prosecuted . Thank you for your story. Every one of us needs to tell our story. It's so important to illustrate the abuse. In fact, I plan on writing a book with countless stories of LGBT Catholic children from puberty to age 18 . I want the world to know the abuse they suffered and still suffer due to this Catholic doctrine. It should not and cannot continue
They seem so sincere in the documentary and present the Catholic Church as a great place to be. I can't say I feel the same way. I've been treated like crap by the Church (not talking about same-sex attraction).
The church has broken people with in! Sometimes not the best to pass on the message but we do what we can. The church is perfect! The people within it unfortuantly are not perfect
This documentary is an inviation to gay people, but at the same time undoubtly asking the other people to be good to others, tolerant and accepting as a famility and community. I myself have much more to be better and this helped me realizing it.
any person who says they became catholic and moved past they're homosexuality is simply lying to themselves, it is impossible to change who you are or how you were meant to be. the only reason we think the way any of us are is wrong is because someone else tells you so, and yet how do they know the way they are isn't the wrong way, because someone told them that. you can't change who you are, only suppress it and then that leads to depression, loneliness, suicide, and emotional eruption towards yourself and others. simply be who you are, not who others want or tell you to be. come on people! you know this! your not hearing anything new!
Isolation and loneliness? Try being a divorced Catholic. One must live a chaste life too. So rather than complain, offer the obstacle up as a sacrifice. Jesus suffered, why should we be any different. Unite that pain or obsticle in union with His suffering. Participate with Christ in carrying your own cross. We are not meant to find consolations here, but in heaven. We were made to be with Our Heavenly Father for all eternity.
This is such a beautiful message. In a world of cynical negativity regarding both homosexuality and religion, both together and separately, this is like a breath of fresh air. My wife is catholic and I am basically a non-devout baptist and as such, I have always carried a negative perception of Catholicism. The guilt, the ritualistic nature, the pedophilic association, and, worse of all, the Vatican monarchy. Not saying that Baptist is better, but it seemed more humbled by comparison. Generally I haven't felt very religious at all lately, and after viewing a documentary recently about the Vatican covering up child-molesting Priests, I had so much negative feelings towards Catholicism, it was unhealthy. But seeing this has lightened my heart. Despite whatever 'bad' there is about a religion, it is still a beacon of hope to others; something powerful and uplifting to them. I needed that reminder.
Many thanks for this video from Italy!!! As always in America you are well ahead on these topics compared to us ;) I was so moved while watching it I was almost going to cry. God bless you all!
Mi fanno compassione le persone che come unica argomentazione valida per sostenere le proprie tesi usano insulti o danno dell'ignorante agli altri. I'll pray for you!
Excelente film. Claro, abierto y veraz. En la Iglesia Católica, hay lugar para que todos quepan. Nadie está excluido del amor y de la salvación de Dios.
You all will do well to check out Blackstone Films next project here. Given the fact that I now have two parishes, a prison and a university, I won't be helping as much but it definitely needs our backing. It promises to be well done and much needed. www.blackstonefilms.org/marriage/
***** And what are these "horrendous inhumane persecutions and abuses" do you speak of? I hope you're not going to come up with the usual baseless accusations that some people (who have no education on the topic) like to fling about because there are those who did bother to study Church history and can easily explain and refute your "horrendous inhumane persecutions and abuses" allegations. Edit: Also as Christians, we're called to make judgement very frequently when it comes to morals. We're the ones that stand up against racism, murder, misogyny, genocide, human rights, homophobia etc..
Father John Hollowell You're an extremely evil man. This film is a poorly disguised load of garbage, as is the false doctrine of the Church, which was very likely voted on by evil men like you. The 6 verses in the Bible on homosexuality say nothing about loving gay relationships. Absolutely nothing. Just the evils of lust and rape. And what doesn't support your discrimination even more is that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, but he did mention divorce. How about focusing on making divorce illegal and having the Church obey God's CLEAR commandment and do away with your pathetic "annulments"? Hypocrite
Personally, I have spent my whole adult life learning how to love authentically and I fail every day. Perhaps the real challenge is to reflect on what true and honest love really is whether heterosexual or homosexual. If we ridicule, fear or use another human being it is not love. If we rely on every fleeting feeling to define our actions it may not be good for ourselves or others. A good and happy life isn't all about the individual and his needs, Sometimes love is sacrificial. All of the people in this video expressed that their deepest desire was to connect to other human beings and to feel valued and respected. They found fulfillment in making a choice to act in accordance with Church teaching. No one forced them to do that. There have always been people with same-sex attraction in the Church. It is a place for all sinners so everyone is welcome, and the good news is we are only called to try every day and begin again when we fail.
Cindy kELLY Exactly no one "forced them to do that". But the Church doesn't give options on it. The Catholic Church forces parents to tell LGBT children that they MUST live a celibate life whetherthey choose to do so or not, completely void of romantic love and marriage, and that is evil......and child abuse
@@stevenpatrickstone766 Love isn’t just romantic love. Love also involves affection and friendship. You seem to think that we are just animals who should always act on our savage nature. We may be a species of animal, but our soul makes us children of God. It allows us to obey him.
I grew up Catholic in Ireland in the 70's and 80's I never heard any Catholic condemn gay people. The American Catholic Church it seems was very different. I never heard any priest condemn gay people or attack gay people. Maybe I was very lucky to have great, kind compassionate priests in the parishes and Catholic Schools I went to.
Some of the priests and bishops in the USA are a bit wacky, very right wing. I've lived in Europe and Canada and they aren't at all the same on gay people and marriage. As Ireland and many other Catholic countries. USA is known for having a basket of deplorables, as you can see with Trump and his gang. Same goes for some religions ....Some are in that basket
@@atheistexchristian Yes, they tend to be even more leftist and pro-homosexual in Europe. That contributed greatly to do the scandals. Just look at Danneels, Marx or Kilsdonk.
@stapme Those priests should be dealt with, as should the leftist bishops who protected them and those who fought this like Cardinals Burke and Pell should be supported.
It's basic Church teaching: Love the Sinner hate the Sin. Smoking is a great secular example. I love my "Aunt Patty" but she a heavy smoker. She's great at cooking, actually is good at the art of conversation. Not just gossip but different things and ideas and keeping in touch. But she's a heavy smoker. It burns my eyes and when I leave her place I have to shower and change clothes. I love "Aunt Patty" i hate her smoking though.
@@TiroDvD what a stupid analogy. To compare smoking to homosexuality at any level is insulting and demonstrates your failure to understand homosexuality. Please, if you wish to contribute, do so in an adult manner, use your God-given gift of reason.
Amen! I'm Catholic and understand this. God bless you all.. you belong with us. We will love you thru it!! ❤️
This is beautiful. 😇
Thank you all for telling the truth. Whatever you need we are here for you!!
Beautiful to hear all of the people’s stories. It’s sad that we often don’t get to hear these experiences, it helps us to all understand both sides of the debate.
Beautifully done! You can see the peace that the people in the video have discovered once they found the Lord and embraced truth and authentic love.
Really this is nonsense
Amen Debbie!
@@dukekenny9340 how is this nonsense? These people found joy and peace in their lives
As a homosexual, I really like this short film. It shows a perspective that I don't necessarily support, but that I definitely needed to see and hear. It's very refreshing to hear someone else's opinion in a calm way and not through anger and rage.
I agree with everything in this documentary except for the opinion on sexuality. I personally think that people may express their intimacy however they like, to whomever they like(so long as this "whomever" agrees with it).
On another note, "I am not gay, I am David; a Catholic man." Is a nice summary of my opinion on sexuality: Don't make it your defining feature.
EDIT: I have not yet mentioned that the beginning of the film insinuated that homosexual desires are caused by childhood trauma, which is false. Though, I'm sure that many of the people in this comment section are aware of that.
Lucifag Really appreciate your respectful disagreement on this super important issue here. There’s so little of that these days, so it’s great to hear it!
As far as whether homosexual proclivities are caused by biological or environmental factors (or some combination of the two) the video did seem to imply it was environmental, though at least one of the people did claim to have good relationships with his family and the Catholic Church growing up. Definitely could’ve used some more clarification!
The Catechism just says, basically, we don’t know where it originated or how, but, as Jason Evert notes, the inclination itself isn’t sinful, but acting on it is.
As a same-sex attracted Catholic man I, again really do appreciate the respect from a non-Catholic gay person. We don’t get that very much unfortunately
Pax Christi!
Just remember Sodom and Gomorrah. Thanks.
God never told us that following him would be easy. Sin is easy and it is so tempting to say that all the wrongs out there are actually alright to do. Being Catholic and following all of the Mother Church's teachings has become extremely difficult. It nice to find a video that expresses the Doctrine of the Church in a rational and loving manner.
***** “Love means loving the unlovable - or it is no virtue at all.” - G.K. Chesterton, 'Heretics, 1905
The Wanderer "Love means loving the unlovable"?
What an incredibly masochistic remark. I feel sorry for you if you actually think you have to live your life a virgin just because this foul and self-justifying church has claimed ownership over your life.
***** And God told you to be chaste, then? Or did the Church? Or is this just your personal interpretation of the Bible? And if so, what makes it better than anybody else's interpretation? There are plenty of other interpretations of the Bible out there that don't require you to torture yourself in this way...
***** You did not read my reply. I told you- God hasn't told you to do anything. You are relying 100% on the interpretation of a piece of literature. And like any piece of literature- the interpretation of it is necessarily ambiguous.
Luckily as an atheist and secularist, I don't feel compelled to live my life according to religious superstition, so whether or not you can demonstrate that the bible holds an animosity towards homosexuality doesn't terribly matter to me. It also holds animosities towards women, 'slaves' and a general contempt for non-believers. But I do know that many Christians DO in fact consider God to have as much respect for homosexual love as he does for heterosexual love- and that this extends beyond just marriage between a man and a woman. Don't ask me how they make that fit with the text. I don't have to jump through those hoops.
And seeing as I also rely on science, I know that enforced chastity on a person is not healthy from any psychological, emotional or physical standpoint. It is an entirely harmful practice and ideology that has had horrific consequences for individuals (and the victims that those individuals tend to molest out of frustration) over literally thousands of years of recorded history.
There is nothing wrong with two gay men having sex. Like any great truth that Christian Dogma has been confronted with over the centuries- it goes through three phases:
First they deny it exists.
Then they say it conflicts with the Bible.
Then they claim they knew it all along.
And you can see already the rapidly growing demographic of Christians who fall into this third category... PARTICULARLY people my age. I think you must have seen where this whole "hey I've got a great idea why don't you just never have sex ever" thing is headed- don't you?
***** "it's sad that you get taught that in school."
Spoken like someone who never went to school...
But ok- since you seem to like the raunchy stuff. No. There is nothing wrong with two or more adults consenting to private sexual encounters. Animals obviously cannot give consent, so bestiality is ruled out. Any questions? Or can you offer an actual argument against this position that isn't:
a) Gross!
b) My pre-determined ethics don't allow this. Because you know... They're pre-determined and shit...
c) Thinking about these subjects rationally has always been taboo so that means there is something wrong with doing so. And there's something wrong with you if you don't agree with either answer a) or b).
Excellent.
1. No man should define himself first by his sexual attraction, but by his divine sonship. This is our true identity.
2. As for our sexuality and heart, we are all wounded. I'm straight but I'm wounded too. Who can say : I love exactly the way I should...? Nobody on earth. (beside Our Lady ;-)
3. We are all called to conversion, chastity, purity, true love. When we fail somehow (because we ALL fail), we can dive into God's infinite tenderness, mercy and forgiveness
When you say "we are all wounded," do you say this while believing a heterosexual person more closely fits the model of Christian perfection?
@ they never said that heterosexuals more closely fit the model of Christian perfection. Nor does this documentary say so
1. Sexuality is not what defines us as a whole and who we are entirely as people. However, it is a part of who we are none the less. It defines our ability to love and who we love, and love is what gives joy and meaning to people. Suppressing this and trying to mentally reinforce to ourselves that our attractions
aren't "What defines us" only does more harm than good, because it basically teaches you this permanent aspect of yourselves isn't truly you, despite it always being there. To embrace yourself and your attraction can, if done properly, lead to wholesome fruitful relationships that improve your quality of life. For a community who has been persecuted to this day, it does makes sense why people would want to boldly identify with this aspect of themselves.
2. By "wounded" do you refer to the pain that comes with direct attack, neglect, and denial of human intimacy, connection and relationships or "wounded" in some other term? What I always find irritating about these conversations, is that while with having good sympathetic intent, conservative Christians try to conflate the issues gay people face with straight people to give a feeling of a sense of equality and recognition. The reality is, gay people can still be killed in certain countries. Gay people can not have relationships without facing the law in many countries, and gay people in many countries cannot publicly be themselves without being assaulted. Gay people can still be kicked out of their homes for coming out.The suicide rate among LGBT youth is very high for these reasons.
3. Conversion and chastity and purity are not equally applied to both gay and straight people. Straight people, even if in religions or cultures that support chastity outside procreation, still are allowed to engage in relationships publicly without shame, have sex in their marriages (for procreation but we know that's not the only reason humans have sex) and true love. Our sexuality should not create an unnecessary "cross" that we have to endure to experience God's love.
I commend the people in this video and the ones who made it. I've always had an attraction toward the wrong people, not living a gay lifestyle but with people of the opposite sex who were married or separated. After a relationship with a single person who pushed me to be intimate in ways I didn't feel comfortable, I realized it's really all the same. Many of us are just attracted to things and people who separate us from God. Since then I've never judged a gay person for feeling the way I do. I'm celibate and totally fine with it because my purpose and peace, which could never be completely filled elsewhere, come from communion with God. Not through physical sex. This society is too focused on sex as the ultimate excitement and all we need - it's quite the opposite when you know God. Your desire for it is lessened and replaced with more important things. Kudos to these brave souls who spoke out publicly about their struggles.
You are telling my story, generally, here ... God bless you !
You chose to remain celibate for fear of punishment from an invisible tyrant. Doesn't sound like a healthy lifestyle at all tbh
@@lonelyberg1808 As a baptized Catholic who learned Catholic theology and history from Catholic Hungarian monks, I do believe I understand his faith very well. Are you familiar with the Placebo Effect?
@ why do you assume that it is because of a fear of punishment?
Heal yourself dude!! It's called internalised homophobia! Pity on you...God bless you!
Lovely video. I'm not Catholic myself (I'm loosely Seventh-Day Adventist), but I have grown up in various Protestant churches, and I can say the attitude shown by the church folk here is basically what I grew up with as well - "love the sinner, hate the sin" is an attitude shown toward *all* people in the hopes of helping each other grow in Jesus; it's not meant as a judgement or cover-up for hate, as many people portray it as. Christians are not always the most tactful (we're human beings & mess up, too!), this idea that we hate gay people is quite honestly fabricated for political gain. I've never known a Christian person who treated a gay person with intentional disrespect, much less hatred. People do get emotional about this issue, discussions can get heated, and yes, most Christians will not think homosexual acts are okay. But most of the Christians I've met *will* treat gay people the same as they would anyone else, and try to be as kind and supportive to them as possible, while still maintaining their own moral beliefs.
If anything, the LGBTQ *movement* (as in the political/social movement made up of both gay and straight people) has widened the rift & made things worse by verbally attacking people who disagree with them (more conservative gay people included), and painting them as hateful bigots. It makes people feel uncomfortable talking about it. You always wonder - if you let a person (gay or straight) know that the Bible says it's wrong to act on gay feelings, and that you agree, will the person storm off? Will they freak out at you, call you names, pound the table, yell in your face, end their relationship with you? (all of these things have happened to me personally). It makes me sad to think that people with SSA could find a home in a church (and the church could find a new family member), but the propaganda around it stifles that communication in both directions and harms us all. This video really nails it, and I hope it spreads & helps bring more understanding between people.
+aerialpunk do you wonder why people get emotional about this issue???
Ya it’s really weird how the LGBTQ movement doesn’t like people who don’t want them to have rights.
@@pengmaeda9908 what a good, thoughtful reply.
@@aerialpunk ya
@@pengmaeda9908 Not all rights are good.
I've noticed many negative comments here. It seems odd to me. The people ranting against this video fail to realize this has not been forced upon anyone. Each person in this video made a concious decision to choose something other than explicityly fufilling their desires. That's the privilege of every adult.
Know the history of the Church
+Ken93 I am quote familiar with church history. as there something specific you are referring to?
+Roy Rannila Then you should know the history of the church persecution of gay people and also the Jews, and its Theocracy
+Ken93 if you aren't willing to engage in specifics I'm going to ignore you. Specifics = citing an actual event, not a bland general accusation.
+Roy Rannila that's truth where do sodomy laws come from?? and the term sodomy come from?
Very well done! Thank you for the courage you have in sharing your stories with those of us who need to understand better.
@ how could they be thriving by living in that way? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Can you explain please.
I'm a male, practising Catholic who also identifies as gay. A female friend of mine shared this video with me today, it's one of the best I've seen on church teaching on people with SSE, taking on board the struggles and pains that gay men and women have faced and into a positive outlook for the future. I also knew some of the speakers from before (Chris Stefanik & Fr Mike) and they always speak thoughts which are wise and sincere. Truly inspiring documentary. Thank you
Very insightful, may those who suffer internally from this receive a peace beyond understanding.
+Matthew Bagley But why is it that straight Catholics say gay Catholics "suffer internally" from same sex attraction but gay Catholics say they don't? Isn't suffering supposed to be expressed by the person supposedly suffering? I hear this "suffering with same sex attraction" phrase over and over by straight Catholics and rarely , if ever , hear it from gay Catholics. That makes no sense. The only suffering I've heard from gay people is due to constantly being put down and judged by straight people and the Churches that don't accept them....not because they're gay.
+atheistexchristian every one of the testimonies in the video are from gay Catholics who suffered internally. I think that's where his comment came from.
Joseph Lawrence Thanks, but I'm not convinced they're actually gay.
Incredibly ignorant.
Joseph Lawrence Yes you sure are
This really touched my heart, and I believe God pointed out this video for me. Hearing about everything and true love filled my heart with peace and joy. I started dancing to the video with excitement. I’m not gay, that’s not my identity, I AM CATHOLIC!!!!!
You’re still gay though
it’s okay to love other ppl dude, i hope you can learn to love who you are one day
What a beautiful film. I was brought to tears. I pray that more people with same sex attractions see this and know they are loved...in the Catholic Church.
@ I’ve seen many of your comments. I take it you have been hurt very badly and I am sorry for that
I'm not Catholic, but this presentation is excellent, excellent, excellent!!! I hope everyone views this video because it is so hopeful and encouraging!
Catherine Fanto and you're dumb , dumb, dumb, ....not to mention a bigot
Don't Lie A bigot is someone who cannot tolerate the views of others. I can and do tolerate other views even when I don't agree with them. I'm sorry that you have to reduce yourself to name-calling and demeaning in order to express your feelings. I wish you well on your journey!
Catherine Fanto Then I owe you a semi apology. But that you think a video like this that clearly discriminates against the LGBT community is disturbing. Maybe you're not aware of Catholic history, but in a nutshell...it's not very honorable. There was a time when the Catholic Church actually condoned burning gay people, and gay clergy to death. The priest who made this video is a full time bigot who constantly lies and lied in this film about who gay people really are. In fact, one of the women ...Miranda ...isn't actually gay but bisexual and has been married to a man since she was 20 and has 6 kids. Interesting how they left that out. There's so much more to the darkness of this Church and this video ...so maybe you should look into it more before complimenting them
Don't Lie I don't understand how it discriminates against them, honestly. It's just a hopeful, encouraging message for those who don't want to pursue homosexual lifestyles. If that's not you, that's okay. I am aware of some of the Catholic history, as well as Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc. All of us have sinned, for sure. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't seek our highest good, according to God's plan for us. I wish you well on your journey, wherever it takes you!
Catherine Fanto Well how about if the Catholic Church said fat old biddies named Catherine are disgusting old crones who need to be ignored and needs to shut up with her fat old biddie stupid comments? I bet you'd think that was discrimination real quick
'...because, those people with those attractions, they belong here in the (Catholic) Church - this is their home!! '
✨⚡💚🕊🌿
'Come all of you who are thirsty, come all of you who are hungry !'
Also I am a eunuch, and blessed !
Such an excellent affirmation of God's love for all of us. There are so many people who are confused or feel unwanted because of their self perception of sexual orientation. It makes me happy to hear such a even handed approach to such a seemingly confusing and contreversial subject. Well Done.
It's not their self-perception, it's how they've been treated.
Very eye opening. People who experience same-sex attraction should feel loved and welcomed in the Catholic Church.
Tell that to the bishops that scrapped the welcoming of gays in the synod.
playstationfan36 Yeah... we've got a ways to go.
***** Careful with your Pride (and hatred).. Or wait.. no.. Keep going. I don't want to see your kind when I cross over unto Heaven.
***** Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
Steven Patrick Stone No no, it's "love" and "compassion" for these _poor_ LGBT individuals lol.
Wow!!! ... This is awesome ... and does a very good job of presenting the Church teaching and pastoral response ... and it is well to put it as being the Third Way. Well done. GOD Bless you all.
This is the best thing I ever came across the youtube. God bless all of us!
I love this documentary video.. No matter what we are undergoing--Christ died for us.
Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in you O Lord
Can't U go pray in private or something? So annoying.
Great documentary, never seen such a way of express the Church teachings, amazing! This should be seen by everyone. Congrats, great job!
Excellent messages here. It's time for a sequel.. filmed in a way that will attract those of 2020 going through this...
Yesss! Did u see the another documentary "Deseo de Los Collados Eternos"? its awesomeee and its similar
Thank you for this documentary! It really puts things into perspective.
Very well done (filmography, meat and potatoes). Very powerful as well! Thank you for this video.
The video implies that the mental health struggles of LGBT individuals resulted due to their active participation w/in the LGBT community. It appears instead that it is their inability to participate in both their church community and LGBT community concurrently. This is a direct effect of the policy stance of the Catholic Church. This is trure more broadly as well. It is not the intrinsic nature of being gay which causes a person to struggle w/ mental health issues, but instead the lack of acceptance a gay person feels from society. This is an environment that the Catholic Church is complicit in fostering. They can claim to be much more accepting today (despite still falling very short), but need to take responsibility for the damage they have done historically.
Wrong, they mention being accepted by the other gay people around them, but they did not want the gay sexual relationship that they had with some. The one lady was part of a gay church and was accepted but still decided that that was not the right place and that there was something off.
It wasnt an "inability" to participate in the LGBTQ community, it was the lack of something that they felt when they were part of it
@ and what does that have to do with the fact that they felt a lack of something when they were apart of the LGBTQ community? I seem to recall that they felt accepted by the Carholic Church in the end
As someone who experiences same-sex attraction, I can tell you that I've been more accepted by the Church for who I am than by the LGBT community. The Church has healed me. Is it hard to give up a homosexual lifestyle: yeah. But If we're talking mental health and wellness, I was not well when I lived the promiscuous lifestyle. I am now, now that I'm living chastely.
If I ever felt a lack of acceptance from the Church, it was because my LGBT friends were telling me to. It was my own shame and guilt. It was not the Church. The Church and her ministers and Christ have only made me feel loved and accepted.
What a wonderfully done film. Straight to the heart of the truth of the matter. I'm Orthodox, not Catholic, but I thought it was well done.
Instead of accepting gay people as they are, Catholic Church is saying to them "better be subservient and celibate or else get out of here".
As someone who has dealt with SSA since adolescence, I can attest to a great deal that the men (and to an extent, the women) have said in this film. As the nun said: "We can have lots of sex with no intimacy and we can have lots of intimacy without sex." In today's society (regardless of orientation, etc.), I cannot honestly think of a more profoundly true statement. In addition, as the other woman stated, The Catholic Church [but IMO, particularly more emphasis is needed in those practicing the protestant faith] needs to place a heavy emphasis on welcoming those who live and practice lives of both singleness and chastity. Remember: Jesus, our Lord and Savior, was both single and chaste and remains the greatest example of such traits to have ever lived. Ave Maria. Kyrie Eleison. Christe Eleison.
Im an evangelical christian, thxs for the video, Its was well made.
says a lot when wacko evangelicals are on one's side, lol
Why so much hatred?
Sos de Argentina?
Great documentary! I like how it gets rid of the false beliefs that the secular world says the Church preaches. This video should be shown everywhere, and include even more people.
pianoplayer7577 Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
@@stevenpatrickstone766 did you even watch the whole video?
Incredible documentary. Well made with a clear and strong message. Praise God for this!
Interesting documentary, not what I expected it to be. This was beautifully done.
Thank you for this very beautiful movie. It is such a blessing!
If it's ok to hate gay relationships but not gays, then it's ok to hate the belief but not the believer.
+Seren Dumall Well the logic makes sense. We believe in hating the sin loving the sinner, so yeah
+Jakub Maciaszek but you can't do Both
Hate your sinner and love all sinners... that sounds more like what Jesus would say
Jose Antonio Sanchez Actually Jesus said nothing about gay people. Paul, who many think was a self loathing gay man who hated gays much like self loathing gay priests and ministers who hate gays...was the one who mouthed off about it. Still ,even Paul never said anything about loving gay relationships.
***** which is that the catholic church is fucking nuts
What a beautiful film of love and our Lords message to all His children! Thank you for posting. I went from being a Catholic judging but now I see the Catholic I'm called to be...one of love for all my brothers and sisters. I pray I can spend eternity with all of you...worshipping our Father, Son and Holy Spirit forever!
Jill Ezzell LOL what a crock of shit, lol
2nd time watching this, cried deeply. God bless all of you my brothers and sisters, let us live in the peace of Christ, now and forever. Amen.
this is amazing, thank you!
This is beautiful. One area in which we need to change and grow is in building and being a community. This needs to happen. I think each of the people in this film has been touched by someone who took the time to be in relationship with them.
Thank you for this amazing video. Truth about the catholic teaching, finally! God bless you all!
If we only did what one lady and gentleman said: "Falling in love with her creator " .... "building a strong foundation on GOD". The hate would leave and the Love would flow to all the children of GOD>
I don't understand why people are giving this film a thumbs down. This video is not bashing or slamming anyone, it's simply presenting the Church's view on the matter, and it's doing so very respectfully and humbly. I don't understand why people feel the need to criticise the Church for simply presenting another perspective other than the one mainstream society presents.
It's because the other side is hellbent on shutting down discussion because deep down they know they're wrong...or at least that's the simple answer
What a beautiful documentary! Thank you, Father Hollowell!
No, not beautiful. It's insulting to those gay individuals who do live happy and fulfilling lives with their partners.
@@JoseAntonioSanchezr How do you know that for sure? You don’t know their heart.
Very well done. Very well explained. Thank you for uploading.
The film seems very well intended
and raises some important points that need careful consideration.
It presents as a bit narrow though
as there are many things about same sex relationships that the Church and
science have been coming to understand more fully since the original teaching
was formulated. That’s not to say that the teaching is automatically outdated
or wrong. It’s just to say that the conversation is complex and needs openness
and a willingness to let the questions continue to move and challenge us.
That’s what I mean by the film
seeming to be narrow. It presents people, for the most part, who are gay and
very troubled (depressed, abused, confused, self-deprecating…) and then come to
an understanding that they must simply refrain from the “gay lifestyle” and
they will be “cured”, or “healed”. To me, that approach risks a perceived
suggestion that the person is gay because they had “issues” with their father,
or were sexually abused, or had some other hardship/disorder, rather than
homosexuality as a sexual orientation that can be there since birth.
The Church’s teaching on
homosexuality is focused mostly on acts not so much on sexual orientation. CCC
states, “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered” (CCC #2357). And,
although the CCC references the Scriptures, both Hebrew and Christian, these
references do not address the whole issue and are fairly meager at best. Jesus
does not even mention homosexuality, and you could even read that He is not
very interested in talking about it.
So there are different ways
to have the discussion.
One of the things I have heard is that the discussion on same-sex attraction should not be a discussion of identity, but a discussion of quality. You're right; a 40 minute documentary won't do much to change anybody's mind. And while Jesus never explicitly spoke about homosexuality, the Moral Law in the Old Testament condemns homosexual acts multiple times.
Could U please walk me or us thru that Jesus was probably not interested in talking about it?
@@thoronbarI thought the Bible mentions this to encourage breeding BC of a stagnant population.
Or maybe this is because he never mentioned it ...
@@PrivateGrotto Bigger Picture: the entire Bible is the "Word of God". Jesus is "The Word" who comes from God. So on a broad scale, everything in the Bible comes from God. Even if Jesus didn't explicitly say something in the Gospels, His teaching comes through every moral teaching in the Gospels.
Remember in Genesis, God says "The entire world has been made in preparation for humanity to enter it. Now it's time to introduce mankind." Then He makes a man and a woman. God created their bodies specifically so that they would reproduce by having sex. Then God's very first words to the very first husband and wife are "Be fruitful and multiply." Sex is built into us as humans; scientific studies keep ending up rediscovering that men and women work best in intimate relationships as 1:1 for pair bonding.
We were not built for homosexual acts. Besides the health problems that result from them, God forbids them in both the Old and New Testaments.
I don't think TH-cam likes links posted in comments, but look up the Catholic Answers article, "The Bible on Homosexual Behavior".
Lot of commenters not understanding what chastity and sacrifice mean. Lot of commenters idolizing their desires and deifying themselves.
Zelix B
Thankyou for that hateful anti social response...clearly you are just one of millions who goes to church and pretends to be holy!!!
I get you are one chromosome away from being a potatoe however you can drop your pathetic persecution complex because its really boring and I never said it was just the church that molested children however when religions clean up their own child molesting sin and start paying taxes on their billion $ pedophile fund (they spend millions on legal fees for pedo priests THEY chose to hide and protect for decades) then maybe they can judge the sins of others
There are child predators in all walks of life but the way I walk it would be reported to police and I dont believe for one 2nd that if you were threatened with being banished from the church you would go to the police about abuse....
You claim to be a person of god yet look at the way you speak to people.
You are just a nasty, spiteful person who hides behind a cloak of religion and a child raping entity as an excuse to spread hate like cancer..
You are seriously what is wrong with this world and you should reflect on your own behaviour and see what religion has lead you to become.
+Steven JG No, I mean deifying, making themselves God and creating a morality unto themselves.
Victoryin Christo Maybe you don’t condone it, and that’s good, but unfortunately the Catholic hierarchy has always acted very suspiciously when it comes to deal with this matter...I don’t remember anyone calling the police on father Marcial Maciel, and please don’t tell me you don’t know who he was...he was simply suspended from his pastoral functions and sent to a priests house here in the United States, where he died peacefully without having to answer for his crimes. And, sadly for the Church, this is not by far the only case...
@@basiliskos119 All horrendous acts of sexual immorality committed by the clergy are inexcusable. That is why a new dawn has appeared. It is up to the LAITY to hold the Church hierarchy accountable!
i deeply thank you for taking the time to make this video, it is extremely necessary and useful to contribute to our long haul journey which growing on chastity is for all of us, all persons no matter our condition, thanks to keep up in the battle against evil in all its forms, so that love can truly reign.
What's with the not-so-veiled insinuation near the beginning that homosexuality tends to stem from a horrible childhood?
It looks like some people shared their individual stories, how they felt and what they had been through. Is that offensive?
I suggest you watch it again. Only some had childhood issues. Others didn't express that at all.
@@davidwcooney I second that
So glad this is available here. More people will find it.
I really respect the people who participated in this film, sharing their experience of being homosexual and Catholic, they really together show the complexity of Same Sex Attraction and also the true freedom that can be found in Christ and the Church.
Seriously?
Yes, seriously!
Mary Corripio LOL! Tell that to the bishops who scrapped the welcoming of gays in their synod....
playstationfan36 I am sure the bishops you refer to would agree with me about this film -- have you seen it?
Mary Corripio Calls for speculation....Perhaps they would, perhaps they wouldn't. Who knows?!? Yes, I watched this film. The fact of the matter is, the bishops at that synod SCRAPPED the welcoming of gays to the Catholic Church. Gays are either welcome there, or they are not. You can't have it both ways.
Thank you so much for this movie. As a mom, raising my kids in Sweden, where the gender ideology is tought to kids in such a wrong way, I can only thank you for giving me input to talk to my kids about the issue in a good perspective, reinforcing what I already teach them. God bless you and your project.
this is a bad video and it will fuck up the people who internalize it please do not fuck up your kids
@@tompov227 how is this a bad video?
Finally I find my alter ego through this video. Their pensée is just the same as I considered as a catholic theology homosexual student. Thanks.
It is time to recognize that not all humans of any particular orientation are exactly the same. Imagine that, a gay person who is individuated rather than trapped in a socially imposed identity.
thank you all .
If you are gay, you are gay. Nothing is changing that. God loves you. Be a genuinely good person and you will be just fine. Its WAY deeper than being gay. Any sexual act that isn't between a MARRIED man and woman is "sin" according to the bible. The higher power loves you!! Ignore the hate.
It is not hate to say, 'Turn away from sin." I believe you are correct. There is no changing of sexual orientation. However, just because someone has urges, attractions, and desires does not mean they should act on them. Jesus Christ offered his humanity to atone for our sins. There is no greater love than that.
Keep in mind we live in a world with billions who believe in MANY different things. Does not make what they believe in wrong and what you believe in wrong. Jesus is not the only way things are seen. At all. You are never wrong for how you are born. And if you weren't born that way you cannot say if it's possible or not.
And that is my point. You are completely entitled to your beliefs. Just like billions of other people are. What you believe is what you believe is right. What other people believe is what other people believe is right. Just because you strongly feel a certain way does not mean that other people are wrong for what they strongly feel. Man would become extinct if every single person became homosexual and that is fact. Fortunately, that will never happen. Homosexual practices have always been around. Men were having sex with men since the beginning of time and the same with women. The same with animals. It is what it is.
"Faith is not a good way to truth" ~ according to whom? If others choose faith and share faith, what business is it of yours? You are free to walk away.
"You're hurting(and lying) to gay people by saying they choose to be gay, and try to brainwash them that they're going to hell (when you have no good objective evidence for this). ~ Nobody here has intimated that gay people choose their orientation. I am a gay man, and can certainly tell you I didn't. We don't brainwash. Do you know what brain washing is?
"The bible is full of contradictions....and fallacies" ~ Lets see you be specific. I'll gladly address what you see as contradictions or fallacies.
or a married man and a man or married woman and a woman. get over it.
"Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed." (Fr. Richard John Neuhaus). Jesus asks each of us "Who do you say I am?" (Mark 8:29).
The Catholic Church teaches that active sexuality is for marriage between a man and a woman. When I was a kid (male)I was attracted to girls but knew that I must not have any sexual contact with a girl. I was never attracted-sexually-to other males, but I have a great number of good friends who love and care for me. I also have many female friends who I am not attracted to sexually. They are good friends who also love and care for me. I have a wife, and we have children and all the other graces that go with married life.
This was absolutely wonderful! Well done and very informative.
Then all catholic married couples are guilty of abusing their spouses by keeping chaste and celibate when they no longer want to produce children. There is a difference between celibacy and sex for the sake of selfish pleasure. That's all I am going to say to you about this. If you don't like it, then I wish you well and hope that you find God. God Bless You!!!
?
Every person interviewed in this film, and every person living "The Third Way" is a hero. May God continue to bless you. May God heal all of us, so that we may serve our brothers and sisters like Christ would.
St Michael Catholic Church BIGOT
Steven Patrick Stone Ah yes, the new flippant use of the word 'bigot' to describe anyone who disagrees with you. The word will cease to have any relevancy when you simply apply to anyone and everyone who disagrees with your point of view. You know, Steve, I think you are a bigot. Just kidding....actually, maybe you are. A 'bigot' against Catholics. Dictionary definition: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices -- well, Steven, that might actually be you.
St Michael Catholic Church They aren't "hero's" , they're all an accomplice to false teaching, discrimination, bigotry, and lies about gay people
That is so wonderful. Keep up the good work
This is v great. Thank you so much for this.
***** "You are Peter and on this rock (in Aramaic this is the same word as Peter) I will build my church, and the gates of hades will not overcome it." (somewhere in Matthew don't know off the top of my head) Jesus instituted one church, his mystical body, and the only church around that has existed from the beginning is the Catholic (universal) Church. There is tons of biblical evidence that supports Catholic teaching (the Catholic Church canonized the books of the Bible and preserved it accurately for 2000 years BTW). The best resource is the Catholic Catechism. This is the body of teaching that contains all Catholic beliefs, practices, theology, etc. Read it if you get a chance, it sites tons of sources from Holy Scripture, early church fathers, doctors of the church, papal encyclicals, etc. Talk to a priest, they are happy to talk to anyone. I hope to see you in the One, Catholic, and Apostolic Church one day my friend. I was on a search for truth for about ten years and it finally led me to the Catholic Church. Search for the truth always, and don't give up until you find it. In the mean time, remember that the word Catholic means "universal", meaning both Jews and Gentiles are accepted into the Church (God's eternal family). The earliest description of this community of the New Covenant Jesus instituted was the word "Catholic". The curtain of the temple that separated the Gentile court from the Jewish court was torn down the middle when Jesus died. Jesus Christ came gather everyone to God through his sacrifice, regardless of race, nationality, etc...hence the earliest description of the community that followed Christ, "Catholic" which means universal. It's there man, you'll find it. BTW, Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist in every Catholic Mass around the world. As a protestant who converted to the Catholic faith, it is absolutely indescribable to be in the real presence of Jesus, God Incarnate, at every Mass....it's HOME!
***** I agree with you that Jesus never said outright, "this is going to be called The Catholic Church". But if you're truly interested in the truth you should check out the writings of the early church fathers. This can help you get some insight into this issue.
It's ironic the people bashing these courageous people. ..are the ones calling for equality and tolerance and rights but when someone wants another option or way out of this sinful behaviour they're the first ones to strip them of any rights. ..even being hateful and bigoted but the reality is they're hate for the Catholic church is the primary reason. ..because it refuses to make homosexuality not a sin we are all sinners called to repent and sin no more. ..this particular sin is no different. .it separates us from the love of God. .
Manuel Garcia because they are insisting that they are "disordered" and that being gay isn't really that whole. some of these people are even involved in the ex-gay movement.
David identified as a Catholic man. ..not a homosexual Catholic. .big difference. But I respect your point there has been some confusion. .created by some suggesting it's ok to live this way continue acting it out and worse even promoting it I didn't see any of that in these stories in fact I'd say they rejected the sinful behaviour themselves as we are all called to do. With any sin fornication cohabitation. Etc. .
it IS ok to physically express one's love for a gay person as long as it's god-centered. that's the real third way.
it's not much of a third way cause being gay is more than gay behavior, but when gays get into relationships, most of the time it's out of love. St. Paul said we shouldn't force celibacy on anyone, and the church didn't even start stopping people from getting into these relationships until the 12th century.
maybe it's a sin to you but it's been proven it's just a normal part of people and that it's not wrong to act out on it if done in a right way
JASON EVERT!!!!! When I saw him, I got pretty excited. Not gonna lie. Chris Stefanick too.
I'm a lesbian. And I love God so much. I have felt nothing but love from my God. And I can't wait for God to bring me my wife, and for me to truly be able to love someone, and to have a family. Thank you for loving and supporting the LGBTQ community.❤️
As a Catholic I may disagree with what you do, but I will always fight for your right to live free from violence and verbal abuse
Love is willing the good of the other. To truly love someone is to protect that person from sin and from turning away from God’s divine plan. And to intentionally deprive a child of a father is objectively wrong.
Lauren, since you are a lesbian, I don’t think God is calling you to marriage in this case. I think he is more likely calling you to serve him as a single person like St. Paul did. God doesn’t make junk, but he also expects us to follow his commandments.
@@Powerranger-le4up You may not think so. But I know so. God loves me. And He will bring me a family
@@jessondesign Are you sure? You can always have a close friendship with them, but I know from the Catholic Church’s teachings that God’s design for the sacrament of marriage is to be between a man and a woman. If God is truly calling you to marriage, you may actually be bisexual rather than a lesbian.
Perhaps you should consider going to Eucharistic Adoration and asking the Lord what he wants from you. Allow him to guide you. You’re a daughter of Christ and a part of his family. I will be praying for you.
Great documentary. Thank you so much! God Bless you.
You make me so proud to be a Catholic. 😪😪🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😇😇😇😇
Thank you for caring enough about these souls to take all the bullets and arrows and hate for them. CHRIST IS KING 👑
This was excellent....very eye opening and informative and is drawing me to the catholic church. The third way is so necessary, needed and desired.
praying for u !
Beautiful!
Excellent Job! Very charitable.
Gosh I love this short! You need to make more❤
Fr. Hollowell, I was deeply touched by this film.
That's great. Thanks!
rafaelfcf You all understand that this is basically saying... "Its 'okay' to be 'gay' / Be Catholic / but...Don't have sex with men, unless you're married to a woman..then you can sleep with a woman"
yes. Sex has a proper context in the Christian tradition - it has never been about just doing what makes us "happy" in the moment. Sex is only to be experienced in the context of marriage, and marriage of course is only between a man and a woman in the Christian tradition for obvious reasons. We'll see if America sticks to its roots and sides with the Christian tradition or if America will break from its Christian heritage, redefine and radically alter what marriage means, and begin thinking of sex only as something pleasurable between two (or three or more) people
I look forward to a world where we all live for today and plan for tomorrow together. So much could be achieved if we worked toward furthering our knowledge as human beings, rather than remembering some made up story that was once used to teach good 'manners' more or less...
The churches over the years have undergone some major changes in its teachings...not just catholic.
Unfortunately I will not be so easily swayed by some commercial begging for followers because now the church, as a business and like any entity planning on living amongst the rest of us in a civilized society, has finally gotten the message that Hate and fear will no longer work. It's time for the miracles inside every one of us...
Father Hollowell, I understand this has been your life for some amount of time now, but honestly, is it something you believe because you must? That there is a god working with us and watching for us? Have we never had faith in humanity so we had to create something 'greater' for inspiration?
Technology has given us a great gift by bringing us together. We can all teach each other the ways of the world we live in with the click of a button. I remember 15 years ago having to learn that Santa Claus wasn't real by reading the dictionary. Now kids have it easy, and hopefully these religious propaganda commercials haven't flooded our cyber space.
So what happens when we die?
We love you, but we want all Catholics to vote for politicians that hate you and don't think you should be alive. We love you, but we can't back legislation that would make it illegal for your boss to fire you for being gay, or prevent your landlord from evicting you for being gay, or let a doctor or nurse turn you away because you're gay. And it's not gay and lesbian, it's "same-sex attraction" since labels don't matter, but I'm straight because that's how God made me. It sounds a whole lot like Catholics will love us when we meet their conditions. Until then, they'll just talk about how their sins aren't as bad as our sins.
Preach it
They love you either way, the love everyone and they will always do. If you dont believe in god just see nature all sexual ineractios are done to provide new life we arent talking about god. Gay sex is not opened to life is just pleasure. And you being a person as aristoteles said makes yo be able to think and reason but you can also guide your self by pure stimulus such as pleausre. If you do the second think you are acting as an animal, as you are losing the only charactteristic that makes humans better, the reaosing capability.
@@pablogimenezmorera2559then all romantic interaction should be prohibited before marriage. No dating, no holding hands, no school dances like the prom or winter formals. All marriages need to be arranged simply for procreating - nothing more.
I love this! This is amazing!! I'm definitely sharing this with all of my family and friends. Great job!! *claps* :D
***** You could find plenty online. There are a lot of great Catholic resources using Biblical means to prove that Jesus formed the Catholic Church.
***** Well... look, I'm sure you mean well and I'm sure you just want answers. And as much as I love biblical theology, I don't do debates on TH-cam (for my own personal reasons) unless they are ones of movies or TV shows on my TH-cam Channel. I hope you understand I have no hard feelings against you for asking. :) I just don't like debating on TH-cam. However, feel free to ask anyone else who would like to debate!
I hope you find the answers you're looking for. God bless and Merry Christmas to you!
***** The largest group/% of pedophiles in the United States is parents and yet we don't go around accusing every parent of being a pedophile. Your hate is based on bias not logic. It's time to fact check your emotions.
httyd2sonic Telling an LGBT child at puberty that he must be single and celibate until he dies or have hell to pay ...is EXTREME mental cruelty and nothing less than child abuse. It's a criminal act and should be prosecuted just like any other form of child abuse...and you are an accomplice.
Steven Patrick Stone I'm sorry, but your argument is without basis because I've never said anything even close to that. So until you have full proof that I've said that, your argument is completely illogical, invalid, and uncalled for.
I wish I met the sort of people who are in this film. I am a catholic gay living totally alone in the Czech republc. I have no any family who would really belive in God.. After the death of my special frined I stayed totally alone and to be in touch with such people would help me.
Oh, my Dearst God, help me, please someone liek they are on this film.
Wow man sounds like you've been through a lot...I'll pray for you man. 🙏 I'm really sorry about your friend. I hope you're doing better now.
Praying for you
I'm asking St Anthony to find these people for you. God bless you. I am praying for you.
The Church's teaching, shared with love!
boicetar "equal rights" - what a convenient phrase - just call whatever you want to see the laws be called "equal rights"
Are you going to enter into substantive dialogue, or are you just going to say everyone is an idiot who doesn't think like you do
boicetar well there's tolerance for you!
1) If the 14th amendment is so obviously permissive of same sex people being married, why did the current president change his mind only about 2 years ago?
2) I didn't compare gays to pedophiles. I pointed out that it is ironic for Redmond to highlight the abuse crisis as undermining the Church's position to speak on marriage when many of the abusing priests were abusing people of the same sex. If Redmond's logic holds, then the LGBTQ community would also be unable to speak on marriage.
3) I didn't compare marriage "equality" to the "Mark of the Beast" (I didn't think you read anything that I wrote, and this confirms it) I said those who are switching their profile pictures are adopting a sign of the Devil
Father John Hollowell I never said I was tolerant of lies and bigotry, what made you think that? To quote you..."but using that poor logic, given the fact that the majority of children abused were boys and young men, wouldn’t that make the abusing priests also members of the LGBQT community? Therefore, by your logic, the LGBQT community has no moral authority to say that the Church is wrong either.” You also posted a rap song that compares gays to pedophiles that exist today on your blog (on-this-rock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/macklemore-artistic-response.html) Lastly, here is your blog post...(on-this-rock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/the-mark-of-beast.html) Kind of hard to backtrack on your own words. Apologize and stop the lies. There is nothing loving about your message. You owe the gay community a huge apology.
Father John Hollowell BTW, pedophilia is sick criminal activity...not a sexual orientation. Most male pedophiles who abuse boys are in an adult relationship with mothers. Most have never had an adult relationship with another man. Get your facts straight before spreading this slander.
Father John Hollowell Whose fault do you think it is that the homosexual orientation exists to begin with? Who has the power to make everybody "straight" but doesn't?
I'm a bisexual catholic. God loves me for who I am. I love me for who I am. There isn't changing me.
I don't doubt that these people are sincere but the fact that they're all the victim of abuse and bad relationships with their parents should tell you something: that the church is taking advantaged of hurt people.
None of these things are what make a person gay.
It's not a bad parent relationship, or lonliness, or isolation or depression.
It's not drugs, it's not lack of same-gender friends or masculine influence.
It's certainly not that you don't know how to play sports.
These are all ridiculous stereotypes that are focused on hear to give the impression that there's a clear causative influence from a previous event and that event is always negative. This is to reinforce the idea that Queer people are broken or incomplete.
When the reality is that those are the only people vulnerable enough to be sucked into this nonsense "ex-gay" propaganda.
...
There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle, just like there is no such thing as the straight lifestyle.
Queer people are just people.
...
Nowhere in the Bible does scripture ever claim that sex is exclusively for reproduction, in fact scripture speaks far more often the enjoyment of sex.
"When the church says that same-sex attraction is inherently disordered, what they're saying is that desire can't be fulfilled according to the design of our bodies."
Oh you sweet summer child, I assure you that it can.
Why else would people keep doing it.
...
So in the end the "Third-way" is to change nothing about the doctrine, teaching or gender ideology of the church, but to do everything the exact same way while being polite. No reexamination of the mistakes of the past or how they happened, no consideration of what is cultural versus what is inerrant and true, just the same old ideas in a different coat of paint. And they present it so _earnestly_ as if being nice and decent is this radical new Catholic invention.
Apologizing for mistreatment is the bare minimum and this isn't something that the church decided on its own, it was forced into this position by decades of Queer activism and massive social pressure.
And even in this supposedly enlightened state they can't even admit fault for their part in the proliferation of HIV during the AIDS crisis or even their continued attempts to stop the distribution of condoms to people who otherwise couldn't afford them or the medication should they become infected.
There are millions of people dead and who will continue to die because the church hated gay people so much they were content to watch every single one of them die.
Never mind how the primary victim of HIV are poor and majority heterosexual.
Estás cometiendo varios errores en tus planteos. Primero, interpretando por tu propia cuenta las escrituras, lo cual no es un método admitido por la Iglesia para formular doctrinas teológicas y morales. Segundo, asumiendo que las escrituras son la única fuente de la revelación divina.
A partir de ambos errores, ambos producto de la teología protestante, provienen todos los demás, primero porque el sexo si tiene un fin reproductivo, algo que se puede comprender sin necesidad si quiera de apelar a la doctrina católica. Basta con entender que somos una especie sexuada producto de la evolución para considerar desordenes todas las conductas que no afecten la continuidad de la especie. Asumís que el fin último es el único, cuando no es así, el fin último de todas las cosas es Dios y hacia Él están todas ordenadas. Por eso el sexo tiene además otros fines, como el unitivo, a través del placer.
Ignorando lo primero consideras falso lo segundo, si la doctrina de la Iglesia es revelada por Dios no puede cambiar con el tiempo porque Dios no cambia porque el ser es ininmutable, si cambiara la doctrina la Iglesia afirmaría que Dios no existe.
Finalmente cometés el peor y más grave error al asumir una filosofía utlitaria y liberal sumamente dañina donde lo que prima es la felicidad y el bienestar de la mayoría sin importar la moralidad de los medios ni el perjuicio de otros. De ahí deducís que el fin del hombre es la satisfacción de sus necesidades (el placer sexual) y que para prevenir un mal (una pandemia) es posible tolerar uno menor (el uso de anticonceptivos). Pocas veces se ve una concatenación de errores históricos en el argumento de una sola persona, en otras palabras estás fundamentando que la Iglesia Católica está en la verdad.
@@facundobellog
"Primero, interpretando por tu propia cuenta las escrituras, lo cual no es un método admitido por la Iglesia para formular doctrinas teológicas y morales. Segundo, asumiendo que las escrituras son la única fuente de la revelación divina."
Yo he interpretado las escrituras como cada human antes de yo. Todo idioma humano es interpretivo, es un hecho inevitable de la lengua.
La burocracia de la iglesia puede quejar como ellos quieren pero la verdad es que ellos no son inmunes a prejuicios or la falibilidad humana.
Cada "autoridad" de interpretación ha fallado en algún punto, es nada más que ignorancia pura decir que solo hay un fuente para interpretaciones correctas.
...
Igualmente puedes creer en cualquier tipo de autoridad si quieres, pero si consideras que la Biblia es autoritario no puedes ignorarla cuando doctrine moderna la contradice.
"A partir de ambos errores, ambos producto de la teología protestante"
El origin de una idea es irrelevante, también es falso decir que el hecho de la naturaleza interpretivo de un texto o la autoridad de la biblia don ideas protestantes.
"provienen todos los demás, primero porque el sexo si tiene un fin reproductivo"
Puede ser sí, pero el mano tiene un fin también, y ese no es tocar el violín.
Pero eso no significa que tocar as algo immoral.
Mientras tanto, el sexo en sus funciones como un herimiento social y como un fuente de placer y actividad saludable so muchísimas más naturales que el violín.
"algo que se puede comprender sin necesidad si quiera de apelar a la doctrina católica."
La doctrina puede ser lo que sea, pero es un hecho observable en todas las sociedades del mundo(hoy y en el pasado) que sexo tiene otras funciones aparte de la reproducción.
"Basta con entender que somos una especie sexuada producto de la evolución para considerar desordenes todas las conductas que no afecten la continuidad de la especie."
Esa es una idea ridícula y bastante secular.
La reproducción no es una necesidad moral.
Ni Jesús ni Pablo tuvieron hijos, Pablo específicamente recomendó que la gente evita el matrimonion cuando possible.
Aún en un punto de vista puramente científica la reproducción no es universalmente necesario.
Las abejas son ejemplas perfectas, la mayoría de las abejas son estériles. Si eso fue cambiado sería desastroso para la especie.
Esta tendencia también existe en los mamíferos como la suricata, y también en varias sociedades humanos.
La reproducción no es, y nunca fue, moralmente necesario.
Obviamente los sacerdotes no tienen familias, pero eso no es desorden.
Es fácil imaginar los beneficios de parientes gays, todos los beneficios de relaciones interpersonales y de un adulto capaz, sin el riesgo o la mengua de otros niños.
Niños con dos padres y parientes extras que son completamente dedicadas as su bien tienen más ventajas que niños con solo dos padres.
"Por eso el sexo tiene además otros fines, como el unitivo, a través del placer."
Eso fue mi punto. Uno de ellos por lo menos.
"Ignorando lo primero consideras falso lo segundo, si la doctrina de la Iglesia es revelada por Dios no puede cambiar con el tiempo porque Dios no cambia..."
Podría estar de acuerdo con esto, pero es un hecho bien obvio en la historia que la doctrina particionado por la iglesia ha cambiado varias veces.
El imperialismo de Latinoamerica es solo un ejemplo de acciones immorales que fueron apoyadas por la iglesia.
"si cambiara la doctrina la Iglesia afirmaría que Dios no existe."
Eso tambien es muy extremo.
No es una gran sorpresa que humanos fallan, la inhabilidad de los humanos cristianos no es un comentario sobre la naturaleza de Dios.
"Finalmente cometés el peor y más grave error al asumir una filosofía utlitaria y liberal sumamente dañina donde lo que prima es la felicidad y el bienestar"
Es verdad que creo que la felicidad y el bienestar son importantes.
Sufrimiento no es una virtud.
Al mismo tiempo, esas no son las ideas que iniciaron mi preocupación.
El problema principal es que los ideas patrocinado por este video son falsas.
No combinan con la realidad de las relaciones gays ni con comportamiento real.
No tienen motivos validos(si es que tienen un motivo) y a veces sus idea contradicen el texto de la biblia, encima de todas las otras faltas de coherencia.
No es valido criticar mis preceptos supuestos cuando no los conoces, y mis laas razones par mis quejas son explícitas.
"De ahí deducís que el fin del hombre es la satisfacción de sus necesidades (el placer sexual)"
Incorrecto.
Eso no lo creo.
"...y que para prevenir un mal (una pandemia) es posible tolerar uno menor (el uso de anticonceptivos)."
Eso también es falso.
Simplemente es que no considero los anticonceptivos a ser un mal.
No tengo ninguna razón para creer eso y luego no siento ninguna obligación a negociar para su uso.
Son Herramientas.
Yo si creo que el sufrimiento sin causa es un mal, eso es verdad, cual sí incluso la imposición de complejos sexuales sin sentido, pero no considero que el deseo para sexo justifica todo.
Ese es una crasa torsión de mi opinion.
"Pocas veces se ve una concatenación de errores históricos en el argumento de una sola persona, en otras palabras estás fundamentando que la Iglesia Católica está en la verdad."
Ningún parte de este comentario fue sobre un error de hechos históricos, si quieres hablar de la historia podemos, pero todo esto so ha sido tus suposiciones de mis ideas reales.
Aún en el caso que yo so incorrecto, ese no evidencia que la iglesia católica es más correcta. De hecho solo prueba que cada humano es fallible.
Cual era un de mis puntos.
One of the main causes of homosexuality is bullying (homophobic or not) suffered in childhood and youth, particularly in boys.
@@jcosta8546
There is no evidence of any such thing.
Im a brazilian homossexual boy and this is perfect!!!
Same. Praying for you ❤️
@@dragonfruit6532 ❤️
Você já ouviu falar sobre o courage? é um movimento aqui do brasil, padre leonardo tem vídeos sobre
Todos estamos llamados a ser Santos... esa es, nuestra vocación! Realmente hermosa manera de representar verdaderamente la mirada que tiene la Iglesia Católica, hacia este tema. Es así, cuando uno conoce a Dios como dice Santa Teresa de Ávila "Sólo Dios basta" ¡bellísimo! Gracias por hacer este tipo de trabajos, puesto que el mundo en general tiene una mirada tan tergiversada de la Iglesia y de Jesús. Y de ver que para Dios nada es imposible y Él todo lo hace nuevo, es un mensaje lleno, lleno de esperanza, lo que más me impacto era ver los rostros llenos de paz de cada uno de estos chicos y chicas valientes, hermanos míos en Cristo viviendo la castidad, todos estamos llamados a vivir este gran don. Que Dios les siga bendiciendo. ¡Gracias!
Gotta say this was a good video.
Thanks you so much for this video. Thank you so so much. God bless you
This is the Catholic Church's teachings on Homosexuality. Think about it, in Heaven there is only ONE truth. If you want to be happy in this world, and one with God, the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the next, we must humble ourselves and seek the truth that God has clearly given us. This is a choice you make! No one is forcing you to know God, love God and serve God! You have a free will to choose. If you choose the Christian way then you are called to live a life "set apart" from the world. This is not easy, even Jesus said: take up your cross and follow me. The video says; You are made for more than what you might desire right now. All Christians are all called to love through purity!. Remember, the Bible says: The way to Heaven is a narrow path, not a wide road. This culture and the Godless world we live in wants you to believe, if it feel good do it. God's word is clear about sexual pleasure, and all of the areas of our lives. Try His way not the highway. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to help us. This is the same Holy Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead! Open your life to God's love and mercy for you! He stands at the door and knocks.
+ann marie Cassano Are you lesbian?
There's only one TRUTH, everywhere. Truth is, that some people ARE biologically born to develop SSA. Look up EPIGENETICS. That is TRUTH. And it's also TRUTH that 2+2 equals 4. And that the sky is blue.
Sol Mon They aren't interested in the truth, only what suits their own feelings. They think gay sex is yucky so of course they love this video.
+atheistexchristian - Yep. That's the problem with this mindset. People have substituted truth with belief and faith. Truth and fact are what they should be 'faithful' to. And they need to 'believe' that they can discover scientific facts.
Modern religion is largely based on dogma - and on what ancient Roman emperors (disguised as bishops) have dictated to be true. They took the esoteric form of Christianity, hid the real knowledge, and threw in the Sol Invictus astrotheology as a proxy.
+ann marie Cassano Very well said...and with love!!! Jesus we trust in you.
I'm glad this is here. The Catholic Church doesn't _want_ to hurt anyone, but at the same time it believes that marriage has a certain essential character, and that calling homosexual unions "marriages" would (given said understanding of marriage) simply be to defy reality. Thus, it opposes same-sex marriage, but not because it hates homosexuals. A consequence of this is that we have to provide those with same-sex attraction with a viable alternative, that is, we need to show them that there's a vocation they can live, such that they can live in a way that pleases God. We do have to be careful not to bow to the _zeitgeist_ and abandon our historical teaching on the nature of marriage, but we also have to be careful not to fall into the opposite trap of being too rigorous and unkind, of just telling people with SSA what they can't do and not helping them with the problems that are inevitably going to follow from trying to live a celibate life. I Thank God that people like this exist; perhaps we can finally start to clear the Church's name and treat this issue the way it deserves to be treated.
*****
Thank you for correcting me, Sir. A mistake by me, for which I am sorry. I shouldn't say things like that about my Mother.
***** You seem to think that, because the Second Edition had different text, then that proves some dastardly conservative conspiracy against homosexuals. It _is not_ so. The historic teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter of homesexual acts (note the distinction between _being attracted to persons of the same sex_ and _performing sex acts with persons of the same sex_) is that they just are intrinsically disordered. This means that it conflicts with the ends given for us by the _natural law_ (that is, what-is-objectively-good-for-us-given-the-type-of-creatures-we-are), because the final end (purpose) of sex is procreation, and homosexual acts are by definition not the sort of things that can result in procreation. It's worth pointing out that this is not unique to the case of homosexual acts - the same is true of, say, masturbation, something I struggled with. The text is saying that the inclination to perform homosexual sex acts is an inclination towards something that frustrates (and thus is objectively contrary to) the natural ends of our sex organs, and thus bad, in the same way that voluntarily wearing a blindfold is frustrating/acting contrary to the natural ends of your visual organs).
This does not conflict in any way with the First Edition, because the First Edition says that they do not choose to be inclined towards disordered acts. Being no biologist, I have no idea whether that's always true or not, but I'll grant for the sake of argument that it is. The Second Edition says that homosexual acts are contrary to nature. This is perfectly consistent with the First Edition because the fact that someone doesn't choose to be tempted in such-and-such a way is perfectly consistent with holding that _acting_ on said temptation is still morally wrong. After all, someone with a genetic disposition towards alcoholism is predisposed to a certain temptation (intemperate use of alcohol), and his condition means that he is less culpable for alcoholism and deserves more sympathy and support than someone without this predisposition, but it still doesn't mean that it's actually good for him to drink himself stupid. The Second Edition, to me, sounds like an attempt to clarify the Church's teaching and make clear that "yes, homosexuals are not responsible for being the way they are. This does not mean that gay sex is OK, though" - there's a lot of people who would love to take ambiguities like that and turn them into arguments for "see, my gay marriage is perfectly compatible with the Church's teaching! After all, the Catechism doesn't explicitly say it isn't!"
It sounds like an attempt to make teaching clear, not to "hate" gays, unless you think that not supporting someone's decision to engage in what you believe to be sinful behaviour counts as "hatred", in which case I suggest that your definition of hatred is incorrect and far too broad.
Peace
Eoin
***** So in other words, you have no case, and instead resort to mockery. Come on, if the Church was _really_ okay with homosexual sex before the 1970s, then you should be able to provide quotes from a couple of theologians, saints, popes, etc, to that effect. I have produced quotes that support my case, you ought to be able to support your case, rather than blithely asserting that I'm lying. Come on, if you've got proof, pony up and put your money where your mouth is.
***** God does not speak through popular vote. He established a Church, with a Magisterium that is infallible. One of the spiritual works of mercy is to admonish the sinner so that they may see what they are doing and how they are rejecting Christ's love. I realize it's painful to hear, but the Magisterium is doing just that and will continue to do that for all eternity. That is God speaking. To be Catholic is to accept the teaching of the Magisterium. Anything else is, frankly, heresy.
***** Why would closeted gays punish other gays? That makes no sense. My best friend and cousin is a priest. Your statement is implying that he's bigoted, that he wouldn't be true to himself, and/or that he doesn't have genuine love and concern for those in his pastoral care. It pains me to see you insulting one of the most positive influences in my life.
Thank you for the blessing and well-wishing. I appreciate it. I can also appreciate that your values and the values of those around you mean a lot in this discussion. But I don't think it's fair to lie to me, to your personal friends and associates, and to people who will read these comments. My concern is not that your opinion and values are different from mine; it's that you are confusing the very definition of what it means to be Catholic (as are a lot of other "Catholics," to be sure.) I don't believe that you are lying on purpose, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. If you'll allow me, I'd like to explain.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) teaches that the Magisterium is infallible. CCC 2030: "From the Church [the Christian] receives the Word of God containing the teachings of 'the law of Christ.'" CCC 2033: "The Magisterium of the Pastors of the Church in moral matters is ordinarily exercised in catechesis and preaching, with the help of the works of theologians and spiritual authors." CCC 2034: "The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are 'authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them...'" CCC 2035: "The supreme degree of participation is the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed." But perhaps it seems a bit circular to take the word of the Church. In that case, you may find this explanation helpful: blog.newadvent.org/2013/03/watch-this-outspoken-atheist-penn.html
If one believe that one's conscience holds more validity than Holy Mother Church, then this person either has inconsistent values or isn't a Catholic. If he claims to be Catholic, than he claims to be loyal to the Church and attacks the Church in the same breath. That's not fair to the Church, nor is it an opinion that brings clarity to the discussion.
Because you asked, I personally have never had an issue with a teaching of the Magisterium that I took the time to study and understand. And I agree with the Church on contraception. A good friend of mine actually came back to the Church after really understanding the Church's teaching on the subject: stepsofstmarys.com/?p=261
One final thought: there's a difference between fundamentalism and orthodoxy (little o, not to be confused with the big o church). Catholics have never been, nor ever will be fundamentalists. The Magisterium has never taught that the Bible should be interpreted literally in all places. But we will stick to the teachings of the Church, which makes us orthodox. In my opinion, it is orthodox Catholics that you have an issue with, so it might help in future chats you have to use the more accurate term.
Like I said, I don't mind that you disagree with the official teaching of the Church. Lots of people do. But it's not fair to conflate people who are better described as "Cafeteriolics" with those of us who are trying to live true to our values and beliefs. I hope you can see how hurtful it is to me when people misrepresent the Church I love so much. Thank you for taking the time to read what I had to say. Take care!
Just to put my two cents in... I am a gay Catholic. Both of these facets of my personality are very important to me; both make me what I am. If one is truly Catholic it permeates your whole sense of self and when you feel overwhelmed or crushed by societal norms Christ is there saying: Come to me all yee who are weary.... and Holy Mother Church is there saying: You are my child for whom Christ has given His life... I cannot stop being gay and I also cannot stop being a Catholic. I found great consolation within the Church, within the devotions, practices, sacraments.... Do not be afraid to speak to others. Confide in people. I was amazed at how accepting so many priests and religious were, how truly Christlike. And, always and again, pray! Do not abandon the good Lord and He will certainly not abandon you!
+legolasdbk ...thanks !
Steven Patrick Stone
I won't attack, do not worry about that. Our thoughts/feelings happen to be quite on the same page. As for the haters, there is very little one can do about them except pray for them. I live in a part of the world where pretty much everyone is Catholic but I've come to realize that not all Catholics are necessarily Christians, if you get my meaning. I've often debated with some of them but sometimes it is to no avail. I do know that I am a Catholic, a child of God and of the Church and when my time comes to leave this world I dearly wish for a priest to be there to administer the sacraments to me and I know for a fact that God will judge us with a lot more mercy, kindness and compassion than our fellow men and women, not to mention our brothers and sisters in Chris,t do. That is a bit of a glum note to end on, but I will leave it. Would you perhaps care to keep in touch, maybe exchange emails..? Just a thought, no pressure. Let me know. God bless!
+legolasdbk Why would you be part of a church that continues to persecute you? You' aware it's a church that supports laws in places like Uganda that imprisons people for having a gay relationships? The pope never spoke out against it nor does the church. Are you aware that the Catholic church actively fights to legally take your rights away all over the world? The men in the church spend millions to help pass legislation that will discriminate against you. If a God exists do you really think he would condone what the Catholic church is doing against you? Don't you see evil in it all? Why would you be a part of an institution where evil resides? Why not join the Episcopal church that would accept you 100%, instead of the Catholic Church that accepts only part of who you are? It's always strange to me when I hear an LGBT person, their families, or friends say they're Catholic. It would be like a Jew saying they were Nazi during WW II or a black man who says he's part of the KKK. It makes no sense.
Faith is not a suit or a pair of socks to be changed so easily. That sort of "faith of convenience" is, in my own firmly held opinion, simply not an option. Being Catholic, a child of Christ and His Church, is not a club membership, to be discarded once it becomes inconvenient or hard to grasp.
I BELIEVE in . . . one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church, the true Church, founded by Christ Himself upon the Rock that is Peter. How could I ever settle for less? That is the faith I was baptized in and that is the faith I hope to die in. I cannot state it more simply than that.
You and I apparently have very different views and understanding of what the Church truly is, so perhaps we ought to, as the Americans like to say, "agree to disagree". It was never my wish to act apologetically or to proselytize, I simply offered my testimony, for whatever it is worth.
You can't be gay and Christian the bible says kill gay people
It really seems that people don't even watch the video and only come to scream their hate against the Catholic Church and impose their LGBT ideology since many of the things people are commenting here are already answered in the video.
I've watch 38 minutes and 14 seconds sadomasochism and bullshit. The church would love to make homosexuality illegal and would love to have temporal power that it lost centuries ago
Ken93 You know, name-calling and straw man fallacies are actually making you look as the ignorant here. You don't you actually make a reasonable argument agains what exactly was said in the video instead of name-calling with your prejudices.
You don't know a thing about Catholicism, only prejudices typical of atheists and anti-catholics. Please do your research from catholic sources, then you can criticize.
+Carlos Ramirez + I know about Holy Mother Church and I find it wanting. I feel sorry for these people i want them to be happy and not die alone. No why was there reformation? Why in Ireland did the Church oppose a constitutional amendment to allow divorce??
+Ken93 Ken if you listen to what Francis said in his recent exhortation, he stressed *conscience*, the most important part of one's salvation. One's conscience goes above ANY other person's opinion, including hierarchy, and ALL Church teaching.
Yes, Francis said that Church sanctioned marriage is between a man and a woman , he didn't change that doctrine. HOWEVER what he has changed is that he spoke of "irregular situations" which includes divorced people and people in LGBT relationships and civil marriages. Those who are in those "irregular relationships" are to use their own conscience and apply it to Church teaching in a way that benefits a persons spiritual life ....not takes away from it.
In other words, if a gay person is in a relationship or a civil marriage , then he is to use his own conscience with God in order to assess the goodness of that relationship . NO ONE, NOT EVEN THE OFFICIAL CHURCH, can interfere with one's own , private conscience.
SO please don't even listen to the trolls like this Carlos idiot, he's a 20 yr old with a 10 year old brain. He has no idea what life is about or how to respect people, respect the right of conscience, or what our Holy Father says.
FRANCIS SAID AND I QUOTE " IT CAN NO LONGER BE SIMPLY BE SAID THAT ALL THOSE LIVING IN *ANY* IRREGULAR SITUATION ARE LIVING IN A STATE OF MORTAL SIN" END QUOTE !!
Notice he said *ANY IRREGULAR SITUATION* !! That means those living together outside marriage, the divorced and remarried, and LGBT in relationships and civil marriages. He didn't specify just one type of irregular situation, but *ANY*.
Don't listen to the far right conservative types like the Fr Hollowell's...they have an agenda that IS NOT aligned with the TRUTH of what Francis is teaching us. They ignore what Francis says and make up their own rules to suit their own bigotry.
Be true to YOURSELF in good conscience...
and you will be true to GOD !
Have a great day !! :)
My heart goes out to those people and their struggles. Being bullied at school etc.. One thing always strikes me as odd.. how did the other kids know about these attractions? Did they just guess it that those guys were different? These days, it is fashionable to flaunt one's sexual preferences, but it wasn't so in the 70's.. at least not everywhere.
NarnianLady it usually appears early in childhood through effeminate grimaces.
God loves all of you just the way he made you, it is ok that one is a homosexual! You must show faith and devotion to god in the highest and not be evil. Beware of false prophets and have faith in the one true Catholic Church. Live your lives to the best person you are and there is nothing wrong with you.
Jacob Olsarnevich Have faith in JESUS, The Way, The Truth and The Life, the ONLY NAME by which we are saved. Inerrancy, infallibility and Truth are the preserve of God not of any Church. The Church is a congregation of sinners. Pope Zosimus condemned the Trinity. SS Athanasius and Hilary defended it. You cannot be a Christian without faith in the Trinity. Popes and the Roman Catholic Church are infallibly fallible.
So, for those who have been neglected and hurt by Catholics and clergy who failed to be compassionate - when will these individuals receive your apology?
And does the apology include financial reparations for those who had to go to counseling and still continue to suffer from the backlash they got when they sought your help? A boy down south killed himself because a Catholic school outed him - but he didn't even admit to being gay. He was teased by false allegations. Is the church going to compensate for ALL same sex individuals who have suffered (to ANY degree) emotional and physical health? I went to catholic school and I wish I had the balls then, that I do today. Because now I SUFFER for their UN-christian actions. And I NEVER did or said anything about myself or to them. I'm 34 and I HAVE TO GO TO THERAPY. It HURTS. It HURTS so bad and I hate it. I have Tourette syndrome too. And every day I have to pretend that I'm happy. But I'm not.
Don't even think for one minute that this video remotely suffices as an official apology.
Kiko Joseph There are countless LGBT people who experienced the same. I went to Catholic School too and I'm convinced that the bullying and harassment I got from other students was directly related to the Church's teaching that my sexual orientation is evil and "intrinsically disordered". The consensus of medical science and psychological experts , which is that being gay is a normal sexual orientation, never was mentioned in my 12 years of Catholic education.
If supposedly our sexual identity is evil according to the Church, then saying being gay isn't a sin makes no sense. All the kids at school knew I was gay because I said so when I was 13. My good friend who lived next door to me told me not to hide who I really am because she said being gay isn't a sin, but she didn't realize that saying that is one thing but when everything about your sexual identity is supposedly evil you still get teased.
The other kids treated me like I was less than they were and they made fun of me on a daily basis. EVERY DAY someone would say something to hurt my feelings because I was gay. I couldn't walk out in the corridors between classes without being taunted by someone. ALL of their taunting used words similar to "better not date anyone Stevie or you're going straight to hell " . One kid said " well Stevie I guess you'll never know what it feels like to fall in love and marry someone cuz our Church says if you do you'll burn forever". I will never forget that. Wow I was so hurt I went to a corner and cried. I went to the principal of the school and asked her to let me go home and she did. I think she knew what was going on but never said anything because she felt helpless. She couldn't really defend me because what the kids were saying to me was actual Catholic teaching, even though they said it in a cruel and taunting way, it was still true according to Catholic doctrine. The Sisters and lay teachers never defended me, just ignored it.
The worse is that I found out many years later that a priest with whom I regularly served Mass turned out to be an accused pedophile in my state. One can look him up online very easily.
I couldn't go to the prom so I missed both senior and junior prom because the school wouldn't allow me to bring this really nice guy I liked. I suffered SO BAD. I cried a lot. I was very solitary and had no friends. I never went to school parties because I felt like I was weird being there alone when others had the freedom to show their girlfriends and boyfriends and dance, with each other etc. I never joined clubs.
I suffer for that abuse to this day. I know I will NEVER feel fully healed from that till the day I die. Especially because every time I get attacked online by the fundamental Catholics it brings me right back to those years in grammar and high school.
This is why I won't stand for it now. I was so psychologically abused from this teaching that the thought of other LGBT innocent children going through the same breaks my heart.
Fr Hollowell, and all the Catholics who support this (which is only 32% of the Church) will someday have to answer to God for what they've done. It's evil, and it's clearly child abuse. I want it to stop and I hope after the Supreme Court rules that legislation will be passed to make this Catholic teaching against the law and it will be treated as child abuse of LGBT children. Those teaching this should be prosecuted .
Thank you for your story. Every one of us needs to tell our story. It's so important to illustrate the abuse. In fact, I plan on writing a book with countless stories of LGBT Catholic children from puberty to age 18 . I want the world to know the abuse they suffered and still suffer due to this Catholic doctrine. It should not and cannot continue
They seem so sincere in the documentary and present the Catholic Church as a great place to be. I can't say I feel the same way. I've been treated like crap by the Church (not talking about same-sex attraction).
The church has broken people with in! Sometimes not the best to pass on the message but we do what we can.
The church is perfect! The people within it unfortuantly are not perfect
This documentary is an inviation to gay people, but at the same time undoubtly asking the other people to be good to others, tolerant and accepting as a famility and community. I myself have much more to be better and this helped me realizing it.
While I have great compassion for people like those in this video, and wish them well, I find them in denial.
How so?
any person who says they became catholic and moved past they're homosexuality is simply lying to themselves, it is impossible to change who you are or how you were meant to be. the only reason we think the way any of us are is wrong is because someone else tells you so, and yet how do they know the way they are isn't the wrong way, because someone told them that. you can't change who you are, only suppress it and then that leads to depression, loneliness, suicide, and emotional eruption towards yourself and others. simply be who you are, not who others want or tell you to be. come on people! you know this! your not hearing anything new!
The Catholic Church still.. clinging with fingertips for control
Control over what?
@@genesisrail shit dooogg
Isolation and loneliness? Try being a divorced Catholic. One must live a chaste life too. So rather than complain, offer the obstacle up as a sacrifice. Jesus suffered, why should we be any different. Unite that pain or obsticle in union with His suffering. Participate with Christ in carrying your own cross. We are not meant to find consolations here, but in heaven. We were made to be with Our Heavenly Father for all eternity.
This is such a beautiful message. In a world of cynical negativity regarding both homosexuality and religion, both together and separately, this is like a breath of fresh air.
My wife is catholic and I am basically a non-devout baptist and as such, I have always carried a negative perception of Catholicism. The guilt, the ritualistic nature, the pedophilic association, and, worse of all, the Vatican monarchy. Not saying that Baptist is better, but it seemed more humbled by comparison. Generally I haven't felt very religious at all lately, and after viewing a documentary recently about the Vatican covering up child-molesting Priests, I had so much negative feelings towards Catholicism, it was unhealthy.
But seeing this has lightened my heart. Despite whatever 'bad' there is about a religion, it is still a beacon of hope to others; something powerful and uplifting to them. I needed that reminder.
Many thanks for this video from Italy!!! As always in America you are well ahead on these topics compared to us ;) I was so moved while watching it I was almost going to cry. God bless you all!
Mi fanno compassione le persone che come unica argomentazione valida per sostenere le proprie tesi usano insulti o danno dell'ignorante agli altri. I'll pray for you!
Emiliano Barcella fanculo stronzo
Excelente film. Claro, abierto y veraz. En la Iglesia Católica, hay lugar para que todos quepan. Nadie está excluido del amor y de la salvación de Dios.
This is gold
You all will do well to check out Blackstone Films next project here. Given the fact that I now have two parishes, a prison and a university, I won't be helping as much but it definitely needs our backing. It promises to be well done and much needed.
www.blackstonefilms.org/marriage/
***** It's hypocritical when you say you leave the judging to God yet the whole of your reply is nothing but a judgement on the films they've made.
***** And what are these "horrendous inhumane persecutions and abuses" do you speak of?
I hope you're not going to come up with the usual baseless accusations that some people (who have no education on the topic) like to fling about because there are those who did bother to study Church history and can easily explain and refute your "horrendous inhumane persecutions and abuses" allegations.
Edit: Also as Christians, we're called to make judgement very frequently when it comes to morals. We're the ones that stand up against racism, murder, misogyny, genocide, human rights, homophobia etc..
***** If your reply to an argument is to call people names when you've got nothing to respond with then you're the troll.
And you judge this video by calling it judgmental when you yourself are judging.
So by your logic you're the troll.
Father John Hollowell You're an extremely evil man. This film is a poorly disguised load of garbage, as is the false doctrine of the Church, which was very likely voted on by evil men like you. The 6 verses in the Bible on homosexuality say nothing about loving gay relationships. Absolutely nothing. Just the evils of lust and rape. And what doesn't support your discrimination even more is that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, but he did mention divorce. How about focusing on making divorce illegal and having the Church obey God's CLEAR commandment and do away with your pathetic "annulments"? Hypocrite
Personally, I have spent my whole adult life learning how to love authentically and I fail every day. Perhaps the real challenge is to reflect on what true and honest love really is whether heterosexual or homosexual. If we ridicule, fear or use another human being it is not love. If we rely on every fleeting feeling to define our actions it may not be good for ourselves or others. A good and happy life isn't all about the individual and his needs, Sometimes love is sacrificial. All of the people in this video expressed that their deepest desire was to connect to other human beings and to feel valued and respected. They found fulfillment in making a choice to act in accordance with Church teaching. No one forced them to do that. There have always been people with same-sex attraction in the Church. It is a place for all sinners so everyone is welcome, and the good news is we are only called to try every day and begin again when we fail.
Cindy kELLY Exactly no one "forced them to do that". But the Church doesn't give options on it. The Catholic Church forces parents to tell LGBT children that they MUST live a celibate life whetherthey choose to do so or not, completely void of romantic love and marriage, and that is evil......and child abuse
@@stevenpatrickstone766 Love isn’t just romantic love. Love also involves affection and friendship. You seem to think that we are just animals who should always act on our savage nature. We may be a species of animal, but our soul makes us children of God. It allows us to obey him.
People should read _In the Closet of the Vatican_ by Frédéric Martel. A very enlightening book.
I read it. Lots of homosexuality going on in Rome. Ironically by the very people that preach against it.