So the reason we don't believe in it is because the "rapture" and the "thousand year reign" are modern, novel traditions that have never been taught historically prior to the americanization of Christianity, which Lutherans do not subscribe to. What he says here is also good, as to what other people should rightly understand about those verses, in the lack of any further teachings of the fathers or apostles on this issue.
I'm still studying and praying to understand the timing, but it seems as though its post trib. (If I'm even alive at the time because the population of the earth has been wittled down)
As a rapture believer I never thought that the rapture would be something that should make Christians passive and just wait. As a matter of fact it is unfair to think that us western Christians will skip the persecution, while millions of our sisters and brothers all over the world are persecuted today. Also I started thinking what if we will not be raptured at the same time. Paul teaches that we will be taken TOGETHER, but does that mean at the same time? Just food for thought. I don't neccessarily believe that after the rapture Jesus will prolong his coming and we will just watch all this Revelations stuff happening, but it could just mean that we will greet him in the clouds and then right away be descended back to Earth with him as he returns and establishes His order.
Jesus said "You must be born again" If you are born again, then the Holy Spirit indwells you. The Holy Spirit is also referred to as the Restrainer... and when the Restrainer is "taken away", leaving the earth at the mercy of Satan and his demons, He takes us WITH HIM. We are NOT appointed unto wrath. Do Lutherans not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers? Do Lutherans believe that the Holy Spirit would abandon us? Do Lutherans ignore the book of revelation of JESUS CHRIST? Do Lutherans not believe Jesus when He says that "if those days are not shortened, ALL FLESH would perish"??? Very FEW will survive what is coming... and most of those will be destroyed at Armageddon. How "comforting" in Paul's words to the Thessalonians does that sound to you? Please tell me what Jesus is referring to in Rev 3:10? What "escape" is He speaking of if not the rapture?
Obviously you are not looking for a crown of righteousness that those who love Christ's soon Glorious appearing for His own shall receive. Hope you're truly born again. The catching away of the Lord's true Blood bought born again sons and daughters is a mystery given by the Apostle Paul for God's people. And what part of God has not appointed us to wrath aren't you understanding?
I think you conflated a few topics: the millennium, the tribulation, and the rapture. You proved the rapture with your Thessalonians quote. We WILL meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be CAUGHT UP (raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." You also said a few times that Jesus is returning for believers, but didn't much mention that unbelievers will suffer God's wrath after the believers are removed. How do we escape the wrath that will come? Matthew 24:31 - "And He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matt 25:10 "the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut." The point is, Christ will send his angels to rescue believers out of this world to be with the Lord. Everyone else will be judged. The rapture is the separation point. What happens to those who are not taken to be with the Lord, like Satanists and such? Whatever the sequence after believers are caught away to be with the Lord... we know God's wrath is a major part of it. We just don't know the exact manner and sequence judgment will fall. Jesus mentioned: "on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" Luke 17:29 So, we'll be removed by angels, just as Lot was snatched away (raptured) out of Sodom. Then the wrath will fall on the unrighteous. Matthew 24:31 - "And He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matthew 13 The Parable of the Weeds 24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” So we will not be separated until the End. And it will be the unbelievers who will first be removed.
I'm sorry pastor that you are so confused about the rapture of the Church. Jesus clearly states in Revelation he will keep us from the hour of tribulation. Not through but from God's wrath. I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you.
My dad was a Lutheran. I was raised Southern Baptist by my mom.
I want to become a Lutheran
Both are good go where the holy spirit leads you
I agree with the Lutheran view. The last Day is the Last Day. Not a little bit before it and then again on the Last Day.
Thank you, Adam
So the reason we don't believe in it is because the "rapture" and the "thousand year reign" are modern, novel traditions that have never been taught historically prior to the americanization of Christianity, which Lutherans do not subscribe to. What he says here is also good, as to what other people should rightly understand about those verses, in the lack of any further teachings of the fathers or apostles on this issue.
I'm still studying and praying to understand the timing, but it seems as though its post trib. (If I'm even alive at the time because the population of the earth has been wittled down)
As a rapture believer I never thought that the rapture would be something that should make Christians passive and just wait. As a matter of fact it is unfair to think that us western Christians will skip the persecution, while millions of our sisters and brothers all over the world are persecuted today. Also I started thinking what if we will not be raptured at the same time. Paul teaches that we will be taken TOGETHER, but does that mean at the same time? Just food for thought. I don't neccessarily believe that after the rapture Jesus will prolong his coming and we will just watch all this Revelations stuff happening, but it could just mean that we will greet him in the clouds and then right away be descended back to Earth with him as he returns and establishes His order.
That is what is said in the bible. The Rapture is not an event 7 years before hand.
I could never be Lutheran because I believe in the old testament prophecies of the earthly kingdom or millennium the seventh day.
Simply NO, they don't believe it.
One return not 3
Jesus said "You must be born again" If you are born again, then the Holy Spirit indwells you. The Holy Spirit is also referred to as the Restrainer... and when the Restrainer is "taken away", leaving the earth at the mercy of Satan and his demons, He takes us WITH HIM. We are NOT appointed unto wrath. Do Lutherans not believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers? Do Lutherans believe that the Holy Spirit would abandon us? Do Lutherans ignore the book of revelation of JESUS CHRIST? Do Lutherans not believe Jesus when He says that "if those days are not shortened, ALL FLESH would perish"??? Very FEW will survive what is coming... and most of those will be destroyed at Armageddon. How "comforting" in Paul's words to the Thessalonians does that sound to you? Please tell me what Jesus is referring to in Rev 3:10? What "escape" is He speaking of if not the rapture?
Different interpretation ???
Obviously you are not looking for a crown of righteousness that those who love Christ's soon Glorious appearing for His own shall receive.
Hope you're truly born again. The catching away of the Lord's true Blood bought born again sons and daughters is a mystery given by the Apostle Paul for God's people.
And what part of God has not appointed us to wrath aren't you understanding?
it should be an individual decision. Not a Lutheran one.
I think you conflated a few topics: the millennium, the tribulation, and the rapture. You proved the rapture with your Thessalonians quote. We WILL meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be CAUGHT UP (raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."
You also said a few times that Jesus is returning for believers, but didn't much mention that unbelievers will suffer God's wrath after the believers are removed. How do we escape the wrath that will come?
Matthew 24:31 - "And He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matt 25:10 "the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut."
The point is, Christ will send his angels to rescue believers out of this world to be with the Lord. Everyone else will be judged. The rapture is the separation point.
What happens to those who are not taken to be with the Lord, like Satanists and such? Whatever the sequence after believers are caught away to be with the Lord... we know God's wrath is a major part of it. We just don't know the exact manner and sequence judgment will fall.
Jesus mentioned: "on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all" Luke 17:29
So, we'll be removed by angels, just as Lot was snatched away (raptured) out of Sodom. Then the wrath will fall on the unrighteous.
Matthew 24:31 - "And He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Weeds
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
So we will not be separated until the End. And it will be the unbelievers who will first be removed.
He is already confused
I'm sorry pastor that you are so confused about the rapture of the Church. Jesus clearly states in Revelation he will keep us from the hour of tribulation. Not through but from God's wrath. I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you.
When in church history do we first see this teaching ??