Why the Lutheran view of Baptism is so difficult for Evangelicals
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2019
- #SundayDriveHome #sdh
Ride home from church with Pastor Wolfmueller, and here his meandering thoughts on the Sunday, the Scriptures, and the world.
If you hear something interesting, mention the time in the comments.
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Music: DJ Quads "Cruise Around" • Video
One of the biggest misconceptions about baptism, is that it’s often thought of as something we do.
@@randyd9805 I’m going to choose to just focus on your first question which was you would like to know how a person gets baptized without doing anything. What I was meaning to say in my comment three months ago was that baptism is actually the work God does to us not something we do for God or anything like that and that reference can be found in Ephesians chapter 5 if you read the section of wives and husbands loving one another as Christ loved the church you can find it in there.
@@randyd9805 I’ll end this by saying I don’t wish to get pulled into a deep internet conversation, it’s just tiring.
@@villarrealmarta6103 uh
@@villarrealmarta6103 e
instablaster...
The marriage analogy is very helpful. It’s not just signing the paper, but there’s a ring! And a ceremony! And a party! The Lord does make our cup run over with grace. He gives the Spirit! Baptism! Bread and wine! Reception still to come. See you guys there.
Well said, and God willing, many years of joy and a family full of prosperity and LOVE! He wants the full commitment of LOVE from us, not a bare minimum to pass a qualification test.
And so, is your commitment full?
"See you guys there." Alleluia!
And marriage, the wedding, is a public announcement telling the world that you have picked a mate and this is the one that you gonna spend the rest of your life with and become one flesh. It's a very adult thing to do. And baptism should be the same. It should be a decision made by the individual at a time when that individual can make that decision.
@doctorquestian I disagree. If you baptize a baby, instruct him in the faith. Then they can always remember the promise given to them in baptism through the Word. Why would you not want to give that to a kid ?
Pastor Wolfmueller, after being an LCMS pastor for over 28 years, having graduated from a SBC university, and talking with every stripe of evangelical, I can honestly say that I never thought about it from this “minimalist view” perspective. You have expressed, IMHO, a most profound observation. Kudos. Blessed Christmas to you and your family. Pax.
I'd note that the "minimalist view" is contrived, false, and backwards - somewhat of a straw man projected over ignorance. And the only reason it works here, is that most have no idea what they are given at the start, Romans 4, Hebrews 10, Titus 3. And that is sad. It's like everyone has a great fantastic gift, the finest of clothes, but they simply are unaware. Then this teaching comes along and says "you have nothing without the rite of baptism", that is NUTS and very self serving. Note my other comments round about.
Ok, let us forget any talk of a "minimalist view" and get to the heart of the matter. Not being aware of any of your other comments, what do you believe about baptism? Whose work is it? What is it's purpose? You offer biblical references without any rationale as to their application to your argument. Therefore I would as you to provide your statements regarding baptism and the corresponding biblical texts. Pax.
@@dr.davethomas5645 If you see this teaching as, "You have nothing without the rite of baptism," then you are still thinking minimalistically. You see, the thing without which you have nothing is the bare minimum; if you are looking only for what is necessary to not "have nothing," then you are looking for the bare minimum.
Now, I don't think that is your intention (or that of any contemporary Evangelical); most have no interest in simply stopping at the bare minimum without any spiritual growth or further experiences of the Gospel. In fact, I think that the focus on a minimalistic understanding of that which is necessary for salvation comes from an understandable place (for example, a desire to answer the question, "Is so-and-so saved?" which becomes especially important to people after the death of a loved one), but perhaps it can be seen as minimalism anyway.
Dr.Thomas Even you say it works here, and here is where we are using it. Besides just maybe being rude, would you like to describe how it is contrived, false, and backwards? Anybody can have a TH-cam account with "Dr." at the beginning of their screen name. How can I trust your word, if you don't explain how it achieves you designation?
I think your comment was a waste of internet space, and lacking any real detail. Your note did not cite any examples or evidence as to how this view is contrived, or backwards. I am not going to scoure the internet to find some obscure post you made that might be related to this. Please expand at your convenience.
Many Lutheran Scholars not knowing the true meaning of Immersed Baptism with complete faith 👍🏼😍 and the spiritual importance of Lord's supper 😍they made it as traditional rites like catholic priest 😁
I’m non denom & church hopping looking for truth. This channel has helped me a lot
Same. Good luck with your search!
Jesus Christ invites and wants you to believe in Him, so you get saved and go to Heaven and not to Hell.
Matt 13:41-42. 25:41.
Mark 9:43-48.
Luke 16:19-31.
If you don’t mind me asking, what happened to you a year later?
Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit)
Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. (Acts 10:38) The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church?
The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again)
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.)
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment)
============
Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?
What did Peter say below?
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water/ every time they read the word "baptize" in the text.
Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13)
“baptize” KJV
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.)
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5)
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant)
How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist?
Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ?
Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant
(ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
(Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation.
(GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things.
(KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
(KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357
(NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
(NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established.
(YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them .
James Knox is a good one. Edwardpf123 isn't a preacher but he's right about the gospel.
This channel is not very knowledgeable.
I’m currently diving deep into Lutheranism, this was one of my major issue with that belief system.
It’s foreign to most Evangelicals, I now understand and agree.. God be with you.
Understand that it is not "Lutheranism" per se. The object of my own search being raised in evangelicalism as a pastor's kid was to look for the original church as taught by Christ and the Apostles. The first premise is the Bible is true word for word. The second is that if I am to understand the scripture, I need to divine it in the original language. So, I started using the Greek. An example is Holy Communion: I looked it up in the Greek and the in the Greek Christ says this "is" my body, this "is" my blood. So, it is. I do not know how but I know why: because Christ said it. Same is true about Baptism - my sister recently remarked about the "choice" of Baptism. I immediately replied, it is not a choice, Baptism is a command.
I now prefer to say, "I am a Christian." The approach that Dr. Luther used was to point me back to what came before: the First Ecumenical Church. Because, all doctrine, all salvation, everything was completed at the Cross when Christ said, "it is finished." Thus, after St. John died, there is no new "revelation." There is Christ and what He taught and that is all there is because He is the beginning and the end. GBY Greg.
@@sidneyloggins2487 I never understood the concept of communion until I became versed in the Old Testament and the Jewish Holidays (Festivals).
On reading through all the Gospels' account of the last supper, I was immediately struck by the obvious absence of the most important element on the Passover Table. THE PASSOVER LAMB.
Jesus goes on to inform the Apostles that HE is the Passover Lamb.
If you remember, Jesus began his ministry on this proclamation of John the Baptist. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jesus, now, at the Last Supper, more specifically, the Passover Seder, proclaims himself the Passover Lamb as he faces the end of his earthly ministry.
I just finished your book Has American Christianity Failed and it was just great .
What’s your thoughts on conversion experiences and it aiding in clouding the understanding?
I had a radical conversion as an adult in an evangelist (Calvary Chapel) church but am now reformed OPC and understand and hold to infant baptism yet we don’t agree totally with the Lutheran view .
That was my hardest thing to let go of was the idea of an individual conversion experience.
God works through means normatively .
In hell deep u blind
Hehehehe
Found your site today. Previous Presbyterian, now LCMS member. Finally graced with hearing Law & Gospel which floods my heart with joy & abundance of God. I am redeemed daily thru Baptism.I am filled thru Communion. I am blessed by hearing His Word to enter the world with the love of Jesus Christ. Thank you for sharing this faith and teachings.
That driving along in the car, speaking truth about our salvation through our Lord, wonderful man. God bless you man of God.
I'm a Presbyterian and doing a deep dive into the origins and theology of baptism and I found this most interesting. Doing it in the car is a genius way to deliver short messages. Thankyou.
Thank You so much from an 88 year old Lutheran that just received a revelation. From Prochocial School to now I have been wondering and now know completely how wonderful my Heavenly Father and His Redeming Son WORKS and IS to us all.
I was confused about Lutheran beliefs about baptism. Thanks for clearing it up! I was baptized (in the name of the father son and holy spirit) over a year after I began following Christ and it was an amazing experience!
My faith has come back as a central part of my life these past few years, and your videos have helped me so much! God bless you!
As an LCMS member, I've watched this video several times when I need to be reminded of my Baptism and what it means. Thank you for your videos they are helpful and bring clarity.
Being saved by grace through faith is the easiest most difficult concept to grasp
The man above who replied to you is not Pastor Wolfmueller but some odd false prophet scam artist.
This is very helpful to share with my evangelical family, especially with my son who is a Baptist preacher. Thank you!!!!
Rev- This is my favorite one of these you have ever done. You're thoughts about the "bare minimum" were helpful as I think for many of us getting out of hell/ getting to heaven is the operative concern as opposed to union with Christ. You worked with this nicely.
Thank you Bryan. What you say is so true. I attend a Baptist Church, God lead me to Christ through a Baptist Church and received baptism. I have not looked backed since. Geoff from Perth Western Australia. God Bless you my brother.
The Lutheran teaching on baptism is a blessing. It is the same as the 39 Articles and the BCP services. Thoroughly biblical and well thought out.
It's a lie...
If you are on your death bed in a hospital..and confess Jesus as Lord and you believe in your Heart God raised Jesus from the dead...then you die a second later...you are going to the same place every Genuine Lutheran is going to..PERIOD...even though you didn't get water baptized!
Thank you so much Pastor Wolfmueller. This has been such a blessing. I’m glad I watched this again.
There is so much comfort in the Sacraments as the means of grace. I have rock solid "proof" I am redeemed by these tangible mysteries. Every time I cross myself or kneel at the rail and receive the body and blood of Jesus what comfort/joy floods my soul. God is good, praise be to God alone. God's peace be with you.
Amen. All glory to God almighty who saved us through his son Jesus Christ.
Thank you for your videos. Everytime I slip and start to fall away, the gifts Christ has bestowed upon you helps me and I'm sure many others to come back and dig deep into the word and let it nourish our souls. Thank you.
I've been in a number of Protestant denominations in my 7 decades - mostly, Evangelical.
I've been attending a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church - Hope Lutheran Church and School in Glendora, CA. We have
a scholarly and biblically competent (interim?) pastor who is also an associate professor at Concordia University, Irvine, CA.
I've been surprised that the Missouri Synod Lutherans are as biblically conservative as they are and not going the way of the
apostasy as some Evangelicals appear to be sliding away, especially from the New Testament truths.
Our Sunday morning Bible class on The Book of Romans is taught by our Pastor Rev., Dr. Steven Parks on the repeated topic in Romans of detecting false teachings and false teachers. The apostasy of the church seems to be a growing problem.
My dad was an evangelical pastor and he once told me something similar and I was kind of confused about it, but you just said it clearly. Thank you, pastor.
Well, I wasn't expecting to start bawling tears of thanksgiving while watching this... when you talk about God's grace 4:35.. woah, you can tell yourself that and/or read it... but when you hear it out loud, it's an entirely different experience. I needed that, thank you. 🥰
¡Gracias pastor! What a lovely 'driving' teaching. We love you dear Lord Jesus ❤
This was very helpful. Thank you so much for your faithful ministry.
Thank you for this beautiful and easy to understand presentation of the gift of baptism! As someone who was raised Methodist with a very low-church evangelical bent, I'm learning so much from the more sacramental Protestant traditions.
Thank you Pastor Wolfmueller! You explained that so clearly and beautifully.
Thank Pastor Wolfmueller. From this video and the countless Issues, Etc. podcasts you've participated in! It was God throwing me at the the feet of Luke 23:39-43 that brought me out of my stupor to understanding the gospel through objective means of grace! Thanks be to God!
I really like this video and always gain something when I return to it. Thank you for making this so clear that I can run with it and even share it.
This is an awesome video. Could you make something similar about how evangelicals misunderstand the Lutheran view of communion?
Yes please!
Nice teaching. Baptism and Communion are not works, they are God's gifts overflowing. Joy, Joy, Joy.
That is right! They are a Means of Grace, a gift of God! We receive salvation through a means of grace, thanks to no part on ourselves!
Very helpful! Merry Christmas! Thanking God for His indescribable gift!
Thank you Pastor. Born in to the Lutheran doctrine of Christianity and been struggling, not with faith but with knowing for sure if i am in a good solid doctrine. Prayong for God to make himself known to me, that i want to know i will see his face someday, amd He riminded me that alread know him and thay I Have seen his face, everyday. And then he sent down a oath that led me to your channel and your videos are reminding why I love the Lutheran Doctrine. You are clearly a truly Godly man. Keeping it simple and knowing that, even if we dont under stand we can trust ehat God says simply bc he is God.
This message is so very excellent and helpful! Thank you so much!
"He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
Hard to be baptized into Christ's death prior to said death actually occurring.
IF we could perfectly obey these two commandments, then our obedience would save us. The problem is that we can't perfectly obey. Thus the need for Plan B -- Jesus perfectly obeying for us and dying on the cross to atone for our failures to obey.
Have been listening to your Sunday Drive Home for I don't know how long. It is always a blessing. Became a Lutheran when my future wife took me to Good Shepherd in Gainesville, Ga. I knew I was at home almost right away. Lutherans just believe the Bible and that was me. Dan
Lovely stuff. Thank you
Gods peace be with you. And merry Christmas.
This is beautifully articulated, and has helped shape my understanding of Gods grace. Thank you pastor!
I think many times people ask about the bare minimum not for themselves but because someone they loved has died and they want reassurance that the person was saved.
Oh cool. I was on the school board at St. Paul with Pastor Schielke. Good for him and his family!
I didn't realize you have a minimim requirement ! I've found the more I trust and believe the more I have to fight everyday to try to please God. Always go the extra mile. Because you want to.
There is nothing you can do to please God. God is please solely because of what Christ Jesus has done for you on the cross! Repent and believe this Good News!
Luthercast Programming Well said!
Thank you for Law&Gospel!
Just what I needed!
Love it great explanation
Wow! Very helpful. A lot of ways God gives us salvation. Certainly is not a reductionist viewpoint. Thank you.
Razor sharp. Spot on! Thank you.
Abundance vs. Minimalist framework. I get it. Absolutely brilliant. A similar verse that uses this principle for consideration:
Yet she will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
1 Timothy 2:15 ESV
I was JUST talking to my husband about this! I was having a discussion with my SIL ( Baptist/WOG) and then my mom (Reformed but went to BSF for 25 years) about this. THANK YOU! This is exactly what I need! ❤️🎁🎄 (thankful heart that you posted this. It’s like a Christmas gift!)
PS- Hello from Our Savior in Grand Rapids!
Beautiful church there in GR!
Let us not forget that the main emphasis of lutheranism (i.e. the gospel centered christianity) is that faith is a gift, which means something imputed to us, given to us, not something we do. Faith is a gift is Christ. Baptism is a gift is Christ. Holy Communion is a gift is Christ. Faith is the criterion of salvation because faith is the eye to see that in Baptism we are clothed Christ.
@Mlk Steppu, Last King of Ugarit Noah was saved by believing alone. He began "doing" because the Spirit made him genuinely believe. His building was not in vain because the Lord built the house.
So we are saved by believing. We trust in God's baptismal promises because the Spirit makes us believe. Our faith in baptismal promises is not in vain because they are God's promises.
@Mlk Steppu, Last King of Ugarit Apologies! Please see my edited comment above. My point is that baptism saves because of what God does and promises, not because of a work we do.
I agree entirely with your response to my poor communication.
Enjoy your messages.
Thanks!
thanks for explanation
This is the biggest reason why I'm LCMS.
I grew up in the Christian Free church, until I was confirmed Lutheran at 14.
My Free Church Pastor preached most Sundays:
Jesus speaking...
“Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. *Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’”
John 3:5, *7 ESV
As early as 3 years young... I wanted to be baptized with water and God's Spirit.
I talked to my Sunday school teachers, they said, "Go talk to your parents"!
I talked to my Mom, she said, "Go talk to your Dad!"
My Dad said, "You are too young!"
I had endless of nightmares throughout my time in the Free Church.
The Paster teaching...
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
Mark 16:16 ESV
And yet, baptizing was only for Adults.
I watched at nights the car lights shining on my walls as I sang over and over again..."Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so!"
I taught myself the Lord's Prayer: "deliver me from evil..."
I repeated the Child's prayer:
Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep;
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take.
As I fell asleep the car lights turned into dark shadows that sounded like demons.
They reminded me I was not baptized. And in my nightmares tried to drag me into hell.
I'd wake up screaming and fighting... often my parents who tried to rescue me from my nightmares.
I CAN NOT express my thanks when my new Lutheran Pastor told me before being confirmed, that I needed to be baptized.
Once I believed I was baptized/justified in Christ, my nightmares as a child STOPPED.
Satan had no power over me! I was clothed in Christ my Redeemer/Shepherd.
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.”
John 10:10 ESV
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.””
Matthew 28:19-20 ESV
“For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and "all passed" through the sea, and "all were baptized" into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,”
1 Corinthians 10:1-2 ESV
When can we be baptized with water & the Spirit?
“for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.”
Luke 1:15 ESV
“The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.””
John 3:8 ESV
“and how from "infancy" you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”
2 Timothy 3:15 NIV
Same Greek Word for "brephos" is also used for the word "infancy" (above) and "baby in the womb" (below)!
“As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.”
Luke 1:44 NIV
“Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb; you taught me wisdom in that secret place.”
Psalms 51:6 NIV
Wow!
I also grew up (conservative Baptist) not sure and worried about my salvation:
According to Baptist theology and practice, one has to make a decision for Christ, have a conversion experience (repent of their sins), and then only after baptism is one a member of the local church. This dichotomy, of being in the local church but not yet in His Church was very troubling to me. One time at youth group, a teenager declared that she felt that she did not belong to God (since she was not baptized, or made a decision for Christ yet) and therefore logically must belong to the Evil One. At age 14 I was confronted with my sins, where the Holy Spirit worked at my stubborn **heart of stone** and softened it as a result of hearing a sermon on Ezekiel (Ezek. 11:19, 36:26), and shortly after was baptized in the triune Name.
Thanks for the video, but I still struggle to grasp all this. I don't want to sound argumentative, but I just don't understand folks (infant or adult) who are baptized yet who fall away or never show any spiritual desire or hunger for Christ ever. I guess I need to hit the Book for more study!
Keep up the great work in your ministry through these videos! Thanks brother! From your #1 Presbyterian fan! :)
Just as with physical birth, we have nothing to do with our own spiritual birth. Also, as with physical life, some will sadly choose to reject the gift given by God and end their own spiritual life.
There are as many people who fall away or never show any spiritual desire or hunger for Christ, ever, who are not baptized or who attended churches where baptism is just an ordinance. Baptism saves, but this doesn't mean that we believe "once saved always saved" or that apostasy is removed from the equation. It DOES mean, however, that if, by God's power, the person returns to the Church, that person does not need to be baptized again.
Baptism saves us, but we are free to reject the gift of baptism, as many do. Martin Luther once made the analogy of baptism being like a gift inside a beautifully carved box tied with a ribbon. The gift has been given to us and is truly ours, but unless we untie the ribbon and open the box the gift won't do us any good.
Amen Thank you
Very helpful! It is the abundant way God's delivery systems (preaching, Baptism and Lord's Supper, etc.) these Are God's gifts for our salvation and blessing! It is smart to stick with the New Testament Scriptures that tell us what God has done in Baptism (made us alive, forgiven, Gift of the Holy Spirit, broken down the wall of Jew and Greek, slave or free, male or female, one body of believers, grants us a status of righteousness before our holy and gracious God, and Savior, Jesus Christ! PTL from the rooftops!
God desires that all would be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. That's why He made salvation extremely easy
Acts 16:29-31:
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
I’ve always seen it like this: “Today you will be with me in paradise,” WAS the thief’s baptism. Baptism is Christ’s PERSONAL word of forgiveness to YOU and His promise to YOU. Baptism is the same as Jesus Himself saying, “You, dear Jim, are forgiven and you will be with me in paradise.” It’s done in His name so He’s the One speaking, not the minister.
Yes
Infant Baptism confirms how important Baptism is for the Salvation of the Missouri Synod members, correct?
@@daveblosser4658 in the LCMS, baptism is a means of grace (a means of God working faith in one's heart), but not a requirement of salvation; the latter would contradict sola fide/sola gratia. One LCMS pastor illustrated when I was young: We know that God is capable of working living faith in the heart of any person, even an unborn infant, as evidenced by John leaping in his mother's womb in the presence of the (unborn) Saviour.
It’s a gift.
I enjoyed your testimony about I think referred to as a former evangelical. You made reference to evangelicalism as now embracing mysticism outside scripture. I find that Its true.
I suspect many Evangelicals have heard arguments in favor of the necessity of baptism from members of the non-instrumental Churches of Christ. I interpret the Churches of Christ to hold that works *are* necessary for salvation, and they list baptism among those works. Another difficulty some have is with the idea that baptism regenerates, since the new birth is described as not "of the will of man" (John 1.13) and as mysterious (John 3.8), like the wind, whereas baptism appears to be undertaken as the result of human choice and seems quite straightforward. I'd like to see a video addressing those two passages from John's gospel.
Put wonderfully.
Great point about the perennial search for the absolute minimum requirements for salvation. Although the Protestant gap in worldview around baptism has been around since the Reformation, I think the North American culture of consumerism has exaggerated the issue by adding an “economic” layer that demands maximum efficiency, theoretically achieved by avoiding all but the absolutely necessary steps. This view (sometimes consciously) reduces everything to a technology. To ask, “What is the minimum requirement to be saved?” is not really any different than asking, “What is the minimum requirement to be alive?” We are singularly made alive in Christ, but that life is manifested in so many ways. Thanks for the video.
Thank you, I have recently struggled with the thought that Baptism Saves. You have helped me understand it so well! I have never thought of it that way. Baptism doesn’t kick out Faith it just shows the abundance of God’s Love and Mercy for us!
@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's Did you see anything about lying or identity theft because you've done both here. Shame on you.
Well Said Agree..And while your driving!!
When did that term get hijacked? Lutherans were the first evangelicals.
Very helpfull
I am a nondenominational pastor but I whole heartedly agree with you. Further, I believe many protestants have missed the understanding of what it means to be saved. Most boil it down to saved from hell but a thorough reading of the New Testament shows that we are saved from hell, death, sin, the flesh, the devil and many other things. We cannot be saved from any of these unless we die to them, we must be buried with Christ in baptism to be saved from the evils in this world. It is not a work but rather a catalyst.
I'm an evangelical, or more accurate a soon to be former evangelical, whose been worshiping online/ in person with LCMS or in a few instances WELS Lutherans the last 2 years. It seems both sides think Scripture supports them when it comes to Baprism. I feel our Lord is in heaven, laughing and or crying over our argument. My comfort in this comes from Romans 10: If you confess with your mouth Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead you shall be saved. That gives me hope for people of all churches. It appears to me no tradition is perfect, but I increasingly believe Lutherans are the most consistent on justification by faith alone. I've come to conclusion no church is perfect and trust In God's mercy for all of us through Jesus Christ.
Congratulations! Either LCMS or WELS, you are on the right path!
I personally recommend you further explore the WELS route, being more doctrinally conservative!
Hmmm I’m seeking the beliefs and teachings of Lutheran doctrine and saw this... one minute in and I’m reminded of the sinner on the cross at Jesus right.... He saw Jesus for who he claimed to be and We all know what Jesus said to him... very significant that...
I understand the baptism of water for the forgiveness of sins but also recognise that in a situation where there is no water then forgivenesses still obtainable. Also it is our outward confession to follow Christ.
I think baptism in the Holy Spirit is the main need. I may be wrong but it seems so essential for our continued help and comfort.
Jesus came that we might be saved and not condemned. He is the good good shepherd who seeks out and finds us, he carries us when we cannot carry ourselves. He did all the work, all the redeeming and paying the price to bring us home, and rejoices in heaven when we are found. 💛
@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's stop the scam.
That was excellent pastor! I was very active in evangelical churches for many years so I felt these evangelical objections strongly at one point in my life. One comment that really clicked for me as I wrestled with the topic of baptism was "God forgives the forgiven". You see, to the evangelical, if we are forgiven it seems like nonsense that we would need more forgiveness or grace on top of that. There is nothing to forgive if we are in Christ, so they reason. But what is missing is that the Gospel is not just for the lost. It is for the Christian too. We are often weak in faith. We are still troubled by our remaining sin. We struggle. We feel our lack of love for God and neighbor. We feel distant from God. The Gospel comes to us anew with the promise of the forgiveness of sins over and over, - as many times as we need to hear it. Yes, God is abundant in his grace!
The reason we have so much problem with it is because we are all telling you that you are wrong. And it isn’t us who are telling you that you are wrong, the Bible tells you that you are wrong. Abraham’s righteousness was counted to him because he believed God and it was when even granted to him before he was circumcised. Lutheranism hinges on one verse in particular, 1 Peter 3:21. You take that one verse away from the LCMS and the boat sinks.
Personally speaking, I love discussing all doctrines. The problem I often encounter is there is simply no Evangelical doctrine to discuss. Faith is always an intangible feeling. Baptism is always a free will work and they always tell of the most recent Christian author they've recently discovered that has changed their life. It's generally always the same with little variance. I can do nothing more than kindly smile and move along. I learned long ago, there is no way to kill decision theology which breeds doctrinal vacuums. Perhaps a thimble's worth of biblical, doctrinal knowledge is best for some? Just not me. But then again, I've much to learn too. 😁. Thanks Pastor.
Faith is certainly not a feeling (the Bible calls it a substance, and an evidence) but its the evidence of things not yet seen, so it's not seen. But if you're not baptized in faith then you may as well be going for a dip in the pool 😂
Baptism is a gift. A gift that delivers grace to you, God's child. Not because you earned it, but because He loves you unconditionally. That's why it's for babies! Because it's not about how smart or ready or deserving we are. It's about how good and gracious GOD is! Just like a gift you might receive in the mail. The postal worker brings it to you. Some person at a store may have wrapped it. But that does not mean that it isn't a gift from the giver to you, the recipient. Now, you may decide for some reason that you don't want God's gift. That is where the danger is. Don't reject His gifts. They are precious and have purpose! That is why we are told over and over again in the bible to believe. God gave you the gift of faith by whatever means, probably a combination. Keep on believing. Keep on trusting. We, as sinners are completely capable of rejecting these gifts because we are by nature an enemy of God. Rest in His promises and accept His gifts (God's word, baptism and the Lord's supper). They are vital for resisting the devil as he prowls around waiting to pounce and steal our joy by telling us these gifts of grace are meaningless. The devil lies!
Well I’m put, Sister! We have free will to the extent only to “reject” God’s free, but unmerited gift of salvation! We do not get to choose to come to or get to know God! All we have is the ability to “veto,” which is to remain separated from the Lord forever, which was the state in which we were born!
The thief was baptized because he literally died with Christ. The thief on the cross shows us what baptism actually is.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ bless you
Hmm, I’m inclined to believe more than baptism is the willing heart to obey God thru our hearts moved in faith in Christ. When we really see his love we ask ourselves what we can do versus what can get away with (the minimalist view you mentioned). Similar to a marriage, it’s not the ring that makes it successful. Rather, it’s the heart to be faithful which will naturally follow not just with a ring but a life long investment.
Whoa-that Mark 16:16 reference makes a lot of sense.
Thank you again, sir, always appreciated. And very much liked "non Roman Catholic" . . . this would even include orthodox, and you can actually see that these manner of discussions occur between them as well.
My own preference is "evangelical" over "Lutheran" . . . unsure how to refer to modern-day movements. There are definitely still "reformed" and possibly "revivalist" for modern-day charismatics? Anyway, "first evangelicals" as referred to by Gene Veith, guess that's my point.
Sorry, I'm all over the place here too. Maybe to get to the crux, you're right. The abundance of saving, of salvation, of love for us is it; even an over-abundance. When we attempt to reduce this to a minimum, we may be missing the point. Jesus does not leave us at a minimum. The Holy Ghost will convict us where we are, transfix us with God's Word, and then turn our entire being over to a redeemed child of God. IMO, there are no half-measures here.
We're either in the water or we're not (and please ignore Hans' well-done metaphor explaining the "life of Tyler") and so we cannot splash around, we dive right in to be immersed in and covered over with, and completely bouyed up by ...
... grace.
Praise be to God.
If you believe in your heart and confess with your lips that Jesus Christ is Lord, you will be saved. I believe that is salvation, in addition to that you must be baptized, not to gain salvation, but to be buried with Christ in your old life. And coming up, resurrected with Jesus in your new life. And this is also your decoration of faith before the congregation, that you are Christian and you are saved.
God and all He gives, saves us.
The justification is salvation by grace through faith. BUT true faith will bear fruit ie ; works.
Thanks for the video. One question that seems central but not often addressed is this: are ALL the baptized (always and forever) saved? Maybe I could also put it this way: Whenever a child is baptized, can one say without the shadow of a doubt that that specific child is saved? (Nobody can check whether the child has faith or not).
Unless they resist the gospel, yes, they are absolutely saved.
Some famous, baptized people: Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy. I believe baptism is a Sacrament, and cherish my Lutheram baptism at six weeks old, but it's clear that baptism apart from faith in Christ saves no one. I think it may be analogous to what Paul means when he writes about people who participate in communion "unworthily," that they're eating and drinking damnation unto themselves, however, I do not presume to authority. I'm no scholar of any kind, Biblically or linguistically. It is a comparison which seems plausible.
@@bobtaylor170 yes you can reject God....but that doesn't just apply to people like Hitler and Stalin who would have been baptized as babies. It also applies to baptized members of adult only baptism denominations. And that's the point. Just because you're baptized at 20 or 30 doesn't mean you won't become.atheist at 40 or 50
I was infant baptized as a Lutheran, my parents took me to a Methodist Church growing up, in high school I went with my friends to a southern baptist church, I was baptized again when I was 17 in an SBC... I went to an SBC College, then married a Lutheran, my father-in-law is a Missouri Synod pastor, I now attend MS Lutheran Church. I pretty well verse on the differences of interpretation. They all seem to have a pitfall. I always come back to... it's hard to explain salvation to a human. It's hard to explain the supernatural to the natural. Every argument and debate I watch or hear always comes down to this. The baptist only see baptism and communion as a symbol. I think that is a natural view of those sacraments. But those sacraments are supernatural. They are symbols and..... they are supernatural. I enjoyed your video. I know this is a run on comment..... but I'm always stumped at the age of accountability argument as it really conflicts with original sin...
@Pastor Bryan wolfmueller's The post above is a scam. Not Pastor Bryan.
By the same marriage analogy, do works save in the Lutheran tradition? It's certainly something that's required, and I'm struggling to see the distinction between the roles of works and baptism in salvation, within the Lutheran tradition. Thanks for this helpful video
No. Lutherans do not believe works save.
What works do you think Lutherans require for salvation?
Saved by Grace, not works...
"God does not need our good works, but our neighbor does!" Martin Luther
We also get obedience and works confused along with the words legalism and law. These are all good deductions.
I appreciated the clarity of this sermonette on baptism. In other news, do you have Martin Luther's Small Catechism buckled into the backseat?! LOL
A common "Evangelical" problem is the focus on "all YOU have to DO." YOU. DO. This is why the biblical view of Baptism is difficult for them.... the one baptized doesn't DO anything, and thus it can't have anything to do with salvation.
It's truly not about the bare minimum requirement. It's not about such a limit, it comports with the doctrine of security. It's Romans 10:9. The kicking back is less philosophical - it's that the means (walking the aisle, baptism, etc.) all must do that one Romans 10:9 thing in order to mean salvation. It's not in the water. It's in the heart and profession of saying with the Eunuch, "...what's preventing me being baptized?" Was that water down there that he pointed out to Phillip going to do the trick, or was he not already regenerate, convinced in his will by the gospel, already in-Christ?
As as a Southern Baptist minister I appreciate your thought. When we only look for the "technical" of salvation we miss the overall beauty of salvation. I tell my folks all the time there is no such thing as an unbaptized obedient believer. Baptism is necessary for obedience to Jesus and the salvation He brings!
@@tarzanslilbro8785 if the thief on the cross was truly saved, he would have been baptized because of obedience to Christ… alas he did not have the opportunity to demonstrate (testify of) his faith in baptism. That doesn’t mean he’s not saved. Again, we get hung up on the “requirement” for baptism to save, or the idea that something magic happens in the baptism waters. The real baptism is of the Holy Spirit, regenerating, sealing and saving the soul. Water baptism then symbolizes this and is a command of Christ. Therefore the Christian who refuses to be baptized is saved yet disobedient to Christ. That is not a good place to be… subject to discipline and difficult to grow in faith and holiness when standing in defiant disobedience.
Pastor Bryan, can you please answer a question I can’t seem to reconcile…..
if faith comes by hearing, what about deaf people?
Well hearing in a bibical sense a death person can read the words or upstanding signs and come to Faith in Jesus christ its the ears of the heart the understanding that saves
Danke, Herr Pastor. Ich wünschte ich hätte einen Pfarrer wie Sie 😊.
Zum Glück, mein Freund! Wir haben Christus Jesus, unseren Herrn, den Hohepriester, in dessen Armen wir sind! ☦️
It always atrikes me that one of the most critical points having to do with salvation is that it comes to us as an act of God. To turn belief, or Baptism, or any other human act into a basis for salvation turns that thing into a human act (work) which Scripture tells us is quicksand. This applies to Baptism in that, as Luther's explanation of the 3rd article of the creed points out, the Holy Spirit is the saving actor in faith. In Baptism the Church introduces an individual to regenerative birth, as through water and the word of promise the Spirit gives faith that nurtured, grows into the assurance and appreciative life of the child of God.
I believe it interesting that we talk about our minimalistic view of the least amount needed to be saved. Rather than God's 'minimum' bar to be saved. Does our making of the least amount we 'need' to be saved suddenly make faith a work we do? It is like the high school student who cares little about algebra, studying like crazy for the final to pull his failing grade to a D just so he can pass. It is insulting to his teacher who has tried desperately to get this student to learn and he or she could care less because they just want to do the minimum. But as you said, God gives pressed down and overflowing all things toward salvation. Some look at the thief on the cross and his confession as some easy thing. His confession is not one of finally trying to make the grade on his part, but of an immense effort of grace on God's part. Thoughts?
When the blood of Jesus Christ is referred to as the bear minimum that's so out of line . His blood poured out on the cross is payment for my sin in full.
I am curious about the belief of brining others to Christ in the Lutheran faith? Of “witnessing?” I grew up Baptist and married a Lutheran. We were married in a Lutheran church and later joined a Lutheran Church. I have struggled with my young daughter’s baptism being so forced upon us...yet, I understand this is simply a part of the church belief. My biggest question is the difference in outreach between Baptist and Lutheran? I was raised to believe we are called to bring others to Christ, to share the good news that salvation is for all who believe! But I have yet to see or experience the intense desire to bring others to Christ in the Lutheran church?
Alyson, I hear you. I think it depends largely on the church. Many evangelical churches I have gone to are great on “soul winning”, but have poor discipleship or an idea what to do with people afterwards. The LCMS, at least, I’ve observed, have a lot of gospel and evangelism resources. Of course, application may vary by church!
The Bible uses explicit terms regarding baptism and salvation. However, we must remember that baptism is something God does, not mankind. Just as everyone who hears the Word is not necessarily saved, only those whom God regenerates by the working of the Holy Spirit through the Word, so everyone who has been baptized by a man has not necessarily been saved, only those whom God baptizes and regenerates through the power of the Holy Spirit in that sacrament. So we can with confidence say that baptism saves, and yet understand why some who have gone through the sacrament of baptism by a pastor are not saved.
How are we to view our baptism then? We must assume that God has worked in us if there are the fruits of the Spirit evident in our lives. We may be confident in our baptism. However, if I despise my baptism, then it is clear that God did not work through the Holy Spirit to baptize me. This also holds true to the one who partakes in the Lord's Supper while despising it, or hears the Word preached, while despising it. If God does not act in the person to change them, these things have no affect regarding salvation. Salvation is a gift that only God can give, not man. He gives it as He wills. [See Romans 9:6-18]
Very well said!
The price is exorbitant, but Jesus paid is all! The price has been paid! Everything we do for the Lord is our of obedience because of what he did for us.
My perspective as an Evangelical Non-Denominational Born-Again Christian is that Baptism is almost always tied to Repentance. One verse shows this clearly...
Acts 2:41
"So those who accepted his message were baptized, and that day about three thousand people were added to them."
So, you have one verse in the Bible saying Baptism itself saves us. All other instances that it talks about Baptism comes with the assumption that the person already believes.