1:00 Watch this, and then go back to the episode Dead End when Lindsey sings for Lorne. You'll see that he has a visibly disturbed look on his face as Lindsey sings and he reads his future. Poor Lorne's known this was coming for YEARS.
The reason Lindsey died was because Lorne was instructed by Angel to do so because he knows Lindsey can never be trusted. Lindsey really should've stayed far away from LA or, better yet, really should've redeemed himself when he had the chance. I still find it disgusting how he used Doyle's identity. Like, dude!
He was reediming himself by helping them. I don't remember everything but Angel did plenty of shit too. He was not the good guy anymore. I remember Doyle but not what Lindsey did to him.
@@ExpansionComics The problem is Lindsey always fell back in. That was why. You cant be repeatedly given a chance at redemption then promptly throwing it in the trash the second evil wants you back.
@@ExpansionComics He wanted redemption at the end of season 1 only to then fall right back in with Wolfram and Hart when resurrecting Darla. Attempted it again after finding out how the firm deals with giving their employees new body parts only to go after Angel when Wolfram and Hart gave him control of the firm. He used Doyle's name to manipulate Spike, and it was a blatant insult to his legacy and what he died for. Other than providing additional info leading to the fight, there was no reason to trust him because for they knew he would immediately betray the team again if it was of benefit to him or if he felt wronged at some capacity.
There are 3 Lorne scenes that always come to mind: 1.Cordelia presented his severed head... which immediately started complaining about the day he's had. 2. When Fred sings just three words from "You are my Sunshine" and the way Lorne's head whips around with that look of utter horror. 3. "I heard you sing."
The one that's lived in my head for YEARS rent free was an exchange between Lorne and Angel. Angel got woken up to Lorne's singing and goes to confront him, he's cranky and annoyed and asks him if there's a reason he's there (at Angel's place). And Lorne goes, "There is. What's today? Thursday? Tomorrow night, the world is gonna end... thought you'd like to know." And Angel has this, old man "get off my lawn you punk kids" look on his face before it goes into the opening credits. Too good! 👏🙌👍🔥 The episode itself was alright... but wasn't worthy of such a clever opening.
You forgot the best one. When he's about to read Eve to see if she had any involvement on what happened to Fred. During the exchange, Angel and Spike threaten Eve, who dismissively says she doesn't care about Fred. Cue Lorne, without any warning or build up sucker punching Eve in the face. And then very calmly and with a smile on his face, tells her how much Fred means to him, and how he's going to read Eve now, and if he finds even one shred of a note that hints to him she had any involvement in Fred's death, Angel and Spike won't have time to kill her. THAT is by far the most iconic Lorne moment. During the entire show he was a hardcore pacifist, who abhorred violence, and only ever fought when it was strictly necessary, or as is the case in this scene, as a last favor to his oldest friend. But him punching and threatening to kill eve? All him. Intentional and deliberate. When he hardcore pacifist threatens to kill you so quick even the immortal professional Vampire warriors who tackle slayers for fun won't have time to stop him, that's how you know you fucked up.
From my Point of view it was a pussy move and for years I believe that it was his choice, but the story indicates that was angel biding. I didn't want to believe that but Angel to enter the circle killed a guy that was actually a good guy so to kill someone like lindsay that he was like in the middle it makes sense. But he didn't deserve to go out like that.
@@ExpansionComics It was 100% Angel's choice. He warned Lindsay to not come back.... because if he did, it'd prove what Angel suspected, that Lindsey wasn't ever going to change. He was always going to be, as Lorne said, part of the problem. Therefore, it'd be up to Angel, who gave him so many chances, to stop him, permanently. Maybe if Angel was sticking around he'd have let him live, give him another supervised shot at changing, but Angel is going to be dead soon, so he feels the need to tie up this loose end. I never had a problem with it, Lindsey more than earned this, its just a shame Lorne had to be the one to do it.
@@KS-xk2so yes ok. I don't remember much of what Lindsay did wrong. Angel did a giles move when he wanted the principal to kill Spike. Angel took a lot of choices that were not good, he was not the one to judge. But he knew that Lindsay was going to help it was a betrayal and a pussy move. Angel did the pussy move, Lorne well I never like him he was executing orders and Gunn nor Wesley nor spike would have done the dirty work. Lorne was the one because he was not a hero he just wanted to live another day.
@@ExpansionComics Literally all the people you named from the team would've done it too. I don't think you understand the characters or the show much....
@@KS-xk2so you can think wathever you want man. I watched this live twenty years ago and I rewatched selected episodes many times. I can have my own point view. For example I think that you are one of those persons that think that know everything. Spike doesn't take orders from Angel, Gunn is more like a hero, Wesley I don't know maybe because he still felt guilty for all the things that went wrong with Connor.
This episode is absolutely incredible television, Angel Season 5 is surprisingly the best season of the Buffyverse! I couldn't have asked for a better ending.
As disappointed i was that lindsey died his speech at the end showed Angel was right he was always going to go bad again when given the chance. Lindsey was a opportunist at heart made sense for him to work with Angel in this moment but he always would have wanted more power.
@@Pizzajohnn Ángel didn't want power? Lindsay had a reason to make a new life. Did he not help in the battle he didn't win anything for helping he could have left. He didn't do it.
Lindsey showed you time and time again he was an opportunist only looking out for himself in the most self aggrandizing terms possible. Even with his dying words - Angel kills me - he told us he expected Angel to kill him one day, presumably because he'd be up to yet more greedy evil deeds.
I see you calling this a pussy move in other comments but like idk its just smart to me.... Lindsey even 100% proves it (in my opinion i guess this can be interpreted other ways?) when he says "A flunky? Angel kills me" meaning he is 1000% going to turn on ANgel and HE KNOWS IT and Angel KNOWS IT which is why he has Lorne just kill him now because hes just not worth his time. Idk thats my opinion at least.
@@codyfike3545 It is a good interpretation. Whe he said a flunky, it was his perception about being killed by a weakling, like a dishonour I felt for the dude. He was going to leave with the girl and call it a day. Angel fuck him up with a pussy move, cowardice it is called. Angel fucked another dude an immortal like demigod or some shit. Angel burned drudzila and Darla. Angel converted a dude in an submarine, so he was like some shit or hybrid vampire with half a soul, weird dude like 60s. Angel with soul is a weird dude. It is cool alright I still like him.
@@ExpansionComicsHe did what with another dude? I don’t know what you’re saying half of your comment. I don’t really agree bro, I watch this show yearly and I don’t know about some of the things you said. I mean Angel is busy here exacting his plan, what is he supposed to do with Lindsay? He didn’t even think he was gonna survive the fight at the end of the show and they probably didn’t.
@@Davidscomix Man if you don´t remember that one of the test to join the society of the circle I believe it was. Was killing an inmortal that was like just a good dude and nothing else, you don´t know that. here chatgpt will help you. At the end of "Angel" (the TV series), Angel aligns himself with the Circle of the Black Thorn, a secretive and powerful group working on behalf of the Senior Partners, to infiltrate and destroy them from within. In the penultimate episode, "Power Play", Angel demonstrates his loyalty to the Circle by killing an immortal demon named Drogyn, the Keeper of the Deeper Well. Drogyn, known for his honesty and incorruptibility, was an ally of Angel's and killing him was part of Angel's ruse to convince the Circle of his betrayal of his morals. This act allowed Angel to gain the Circle's trust and further his plan to dismantle their operations. However, it was revealed later that Drogyn's death was part of Angel's larger plan to take down the Circle and strike a decisive blow against Wolfram & Hart. The series concludes with Angel and his team launching an assault on the Circle, setting the stage for the iconic and ambiguous final battle in the episode "Not Fade Away." Angel's decision to betray Lindsey and order Lorne to kill him in the finale of Angel ("Not Fade Away") is one of the most morally ambiguous and shocking moments in the series. It encapsulates the central theme of the show: that fighting for the greater good often involves personal sacrifice, hard choices, and moral compromise. Why Angel Betrays Lindsey: Lindsey is a complicated figure. While he assists the team in their assault on the Circle of the Black Thorn, he’s a former Wolfram & Hart lawyer whose ambitions and loyalties have always been self-serving. Angel doesn't trust Lindsey's motives or believe he could ever truly change. Angel likely fears that Lindsey would seize any opportunity to exploit the chaos for his own benefit, potentially undoing the victory they were fighting for. Lorne’s Role: Angel asking Lorne to kill Lindsey is deeply tragic. Lorne, a pacifist and empath, is fundamentally against violence. By assigning Lorne this task, Angel ensures that Lindsey is eliminated without giving him a chance to retaliate. However, it also represents Angel's willingness to use others as tools in his mission, even at great emotional cost to them. My Take: This act highlights both the strength and flaws in Angel’s leadership: Strength: Angel is committed to his mission, willing to make the harshest choices to ensure the success of the greater good. He sees the big picture and sacrifices personal relationships and moral purity for what he believes is right. Flaw: The decision is cold and manipulative, especially toward Lorne, who is deeply shaken by being forced to betray his own moral compass. This act risks alienating his closest allies and raises the question of whether Angel is too willing to compromise his humanity in his quest for redemption. In the end, Angel's actions show that heroism in his world is far from black and white. The audience is left to grapple with the question: Was Angel justified in betraying Lindsey, or did he cross a line that undermines the very values he fights for? This moral complexity is part of what makes Angel such a compelling series. You're absolutely right-Lindsey wasn’t showing any immediate signs of betrayal in the finale of Angel. He had completed his part of the mission to help take down the Circle of the Black Thorn and even expressed a desire to leave town with Eve, the woman he cared about. This makes Angel’s decision to have Lorne kill him even more unsettling. Lindsey’s Perspective: Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat. Angel’s Perspective: From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality. The Moral Ambiguity: This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste: Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption. Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles. Interpretation: Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership. Take a lesson mate I alredy knew all of this without chatgpt.
@@Davidscomix You're absolutely right-Lindsey wasn’t showing any immediate signs of betrayal in the finale of Angel. He had completed his part of the mission to help take down the Circle of the Black Thorn and even expressed a desire to leave town with Eve, the woman he cared about. This makes Angel’s decision to have Lorne kill him even more unsettling. Lindsey’s Perspective: Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat. Angel’s Perspective: From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality. The Moral Ambiguity: This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste: Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption. Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles. Interpretation: Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership.
@@Davidscomix Lindsey’s Perspective: Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat. Angel’s Perspective: From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality. The Moral Ambiguity: This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste: Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption. Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles. Interpretation: Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership.
Lorne deserves better the most. Lorne is Soul of Team Angel Investigations. He's not killer. He's not weak for the team. Oh god i wish Lilah still alive and being part of Team Angel Investigations. It suppose be Lilah Morgan is the one who will killing Lindsay McDonald. Not Lorne to do it.
People feel bad for Lindsey because they actually thought he would change. Problem is he had multiple chances to change and didn’t. He went back to the dark side every time. Angel knew that. Also a very telling line here that I think most people missed….. Lindsey says he can sing for Lorne and Lorne responded with “I’ve heard you sing”. To me that implies that Lorne knew Lindsey would go back to the being evil. He likely had seen visions of what he’d do when he heard him sing long ago. So to me that confirms they did the right thing. If Lorne truly believed Lindsey was changed I feel like he would’ve fought more to save him. He didn’t put up a fight.
@@purpledove7008 Sure, but he helped them-that was altruistic. He could have waited for them to fail and then taken the pieces. Lorne didn’t want to listen to him; the whole point was that he had changed. He had the girl, and he was fine. Angel did terrible things too, even with a soul-especially during the first 100 years with it. He killed the nicest guy just to enter the circle. You all seem to have selective memory.
They were informed halfway through season 5 that wouldn't be renewed. They had several storylines working, but maybe 8 episodes to reach some conclusion. These were the same executives than canned Firefly. I assure you many of us weren't happy with the finale.
![I wish I could (and I don't) love Wes [Angel the Series]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QesOzxN3Vss/mqdefault.jpg)
![I wish I could (and I don't) love Wes [Angel the Series]](/img/tr.png)
1:00 Watch this, and then go back to the episode Dead End when Lindsey sings for Lorne. You'll see that he has a visibly disturbed look on his face as Lindsey sings and he reads his future. Poor Lorne's known this was coming for YEARS.
@@Nintendoman01 good tip
no? his face was "happy" not disturbed.
"You're wrong, and I have the proof. th-cam.com/video/YyLGGs8hoV4/w-d-xo.html
@@ExpansionComics ??
@Hunkyger more subscribers than you beach.
The reason Lindsey died was because Lorne was instructed by Angel to do so because he knows Lindsey can never be trusted. Lindsey really should've stayed far away from LA or, better yet, really should've redeemed himself when he had the chance. I still find it disgusting how he used Doyle's identity. Like, dude!
He was reediming himself by helping them. I don't remember everything but Angel did plenty of shit too. He was not the good guy anymore. I remember Doyle but not what Lindsey did to him.
@@ExpansionComics oh, okay.
@@ExpansionComics The problem is Lindsey always fell back in. That was why. You cant be repeatedly given a chance at redemption then promptly throwing it in the trash the second evil wants you back.
@@ExpansionComics He wanted redemption at the end of season 1 only to then fall right back in with Wolfram and Hart when resurrecting Darla. Attempted it again after finding out how the firm deals with giving their employees new body parts only to go after Angel when Wolfram and Hart gave him control of the firm. He used Doyle's name to manipulate Spike, and it was a blatant insult to his legacy and what he died for. Other than providing additional info leading to the fight, there was no reason to trust him because for they knew he would immediately betray the team again if it was of benefit to him or if he felt wronged at some capacity.
@@nav7506 a flunky, pussy move.
There are 3 Lorne scenes that always come to mind:
1.Cordelia presented his severed head... which immediately started complaining about the day he's had.
2. When Fred sings just three words from "You are my Sunshine" and the way Lorne's head whips around with that look of utter horror.
3. "I heard you sing."
The one that's lived in my head for YEARS rent free was an exchange between Lorne and Angel. Angel got woken up to Lorne's singing and goes to confront him, he's cranky and annoyed and asks him if there's a reason he's there (at Angel's place). And Lorne goes,
"There is. What's today? Thursday?
Tomorrow night, the world is gonna end... thought you'd like to know."
And Angel has this, old man "get off my lawn you punk kids" look on his face before it goes into the opening credits.
Too good! 👏🙌👍🔥
The episode itself was alright... but wasn't worthy of such a clever opening.
You forgot the best one. When he's about to read Eve to see if she had any involvement on what happened to Fred.
During the exchange, Angel and Spike threaten Eve, who dismissively says she doesn't care about Fred. Cue Lorne, without any warning or build up sucker punching Eve in the face.
And then very calmly and with a smile on his face, tells her how much Fred means to him, and how he's going to read Eve now, and if he finds even one shred of a note that hints to him she had any involvement in Fred's death, Angel and Spike won't have time to kill her.
THAT is by far the most iconic Lorne moment. During the entire show he was a hardcore pacifist, who abhorred violence, and only ever fought when it was strictly necessary, or as is the case in this scene, as a last favor to his oldest friend.
But him punching and threatening to kill eve? All him. Intentional and deliberate. When he hardcore pacifist threatens to kill you so quick even the immortal professional Vampire warriors who tackle slayers for fun won't have time to stop him, that's how you know you fucked up.
"I'm just here to say Bon Voyage...... don't come back."
He warned him.
From my Point of view it was a pussy move and for years I believe that it was his choice, but the story indicates that was angel biding. I didn't want to believe that but Angel to enter the circle killed a guy that was actually a good guy so to kill someone like lindsay that he was like in the middle it makes sense. But he didn't deserve to go out like that.
@@ExpansionComics It was 100% Angel's choice. He warned Lindsay to not come back.... because if he did, it'd prove what Angel suspected, that Lindsey wasn't ever going to change. He was always going to be, as Lorne said, part of the problem. Therefore, it'd be up to Angel, who gave him so many chances, to stop him, permanently.
Maybe if Angel was sticking around he'd have let him live, give him another supervised shot at changing, but Angel is going to be dead soon, so he feels the need to tie up this loose end. I never had a problem with it, Lindsey more than earned this, its just a shame Lorne had to be the one to do it.
@@KS-xk2so yes ok. I don't remember much of what Lindsay did wrong. Angel did a giles move when he wanted the principal to kill Spike. Angel took a lot of choices that were not good, he was not the one to judge. But he knew that Lindsay was going to help it was a betrayal and a pussy move. Angel did the pussy move, Lorne well I never like him he was executing orders and Gunn nor Wesley nor spike would have done the dirty work. Lorne was the one because he was not a hero he just wanted to live another day.
@@ExpansionComics Literally all the people you named from the team would've done it too. I don't think you understand the characters or the show much....
@@KS-xk2so you can think wathever you want man. I watched this live twenty years ago and I rewatched selected episodes many times. I can have my own point view. For example I think that you are one of those persons that think that know everything. Spike doesn't take orders from Angel, Gunn is more like a hero, Wesley I don't know maybe because he still felt guilty for all the things that went wrong with Connor.
This episode is absolutely incredible television, Angel Season 5 is surprisingly the best season of the Buffyverse! I couldn't have asked for a better ending.
As disappointed i was that lindsey died his speech at the end showed Angel was right he was always going to go bad again when given the chance. Lindsey was a opportunist at heart made sense for him to work with Angel in this moment but he always would have wanted more power.
@@Pizzajohnn Ángel didn't want power? Lindsay had a reason to make a new life. Did he not help in the battle he didn't win anything for helping he could have left. He didn't do it.
"You're wrong, and I have the proof. th-cam.com/video/YyLGGs8hoV4/w-d-xo.html
I felt bad for Lorne because he was not a killer 😢
😭 Same!
True but he knew what had to be done and I respected him even more for doing this.
"A flunky?"😂😂😂
Lindsey showed you time and time again he was an opportunist only looking out for himself in the most self aggrandizing terms possible. Even with his dying words - Angel kills me - he told us he expected Angel to kill him one day, presumably because he'd be up to yet more greedy evil deeds.
"You're wrong, and I have the proof. th-cam.com/video/YyLGGs8hoV4/w-d-xo.html
I see you calling this a pussy move in other comments but like idk its just smart to me.... Lindsey even 100% proves it (in my opinion i guess this can be interpreted other ways?) when he says "A flunky? Angel kills me" meaning he is 1000% going to turn on ANgel and HE KNOWS IT and Angel KNOWS IT which is why he has Lorne just kill him now because hes just not worth his time. Idk thats my opinion at least.
@@codyfike3545 It is a good interpretation. Whe he said a flunky, it was his perception about being killed by a weakling, like a dishonour I felt for the dude. He was going to leave with the girl and call it a day. Angel fuck him up with a pussy move, cowardice it is called. Angel fucked another dude an immortal like demigod or some shit. Angel burned drudzila and Darla. Angel converted a dude in an submarine, so he was like some shit or hybrid vampire with half a soul, weird dude like 60s. Angel with soul is a weird dude. It is cool alright I still like him.
@@ExpansionComicsHe did what with another dude? I don’t know what you’re saying half of your comment. I don’t really agree bro, I watch this show yearly and I don’t know about some of the things you said. I mean Angel is busy here exacting his plan, what is he supposed to do with Lindsay? He didn’t even think he was gonna survive the fight at the end of the show and they probably didn’t.
@@Davidscomix Man if you don´t remember that one of the test to join the society of the circle I believe it was. Was killing an inmortal that was like just a good dude and nothing else, you don´t know that. here chatgpt will help you. At the end of "Angel" (the TV series), Angel aligns himself with the Circle of the Black Thorn, a secretive and powerful group working on behalf of the Senior Partners, to infiltrate and destroy them from within. In the penultimate episode, "Power Play", Angel demonstrates his loyalty to the Circle by killing an immortal demon named Drogyn, the Keeper of the Deeper Well.
Drogyn, known for his honesty and incorruptibility, was an ally of Angel's and killing him was part of Angel's ruse to convince the Circle of his betrayal of his morals. This act allowed Angel to gain the Circle's trust and further his plan to dismantle their operations. However, it was revealed later that Drogyn's death was part of Angel's larger plan to take down the Circle and strike a decisive blow against Wolfram & Hart.
The series concludes with Angel and his team launching an assault on the Circle, setting the stage for the iconic and ambiguous final battle in the episode "Not Fade Away." Angel's decision to betray Lindsey and order Lorne to kill him in the finale of Angel ("Not Fade Away") is one of the most morally ambiguous and shocking moments in the series. It encapsulates the central theme of the show: that fighting for the greater good often involves personal sacrifice, hard choices, and moral compromise.
Why Angel Betrays Lindsey:
Lindsey is a complicated figure. While he assists the team in their assault on the Circle of the Black Thorn, he’s a former Wolfram & Hart lawyer whose ambitions and loyalties have always been self-serving. Angel doesn't trust Lindsey's motives or believe he could ever truly change. Angel likely fears that Lindsey would seize any opportunity to exploit the chaos for his own benefit, potentially undoing the victory they were fighting for.
Lorne’s Role:
Angel asking Lorne to kill Lindsey is deeply tragic. Lorne, a pacifist and empath, is fundamentally against violence. By assigning Lorne this task, Angel ensures that Lindsey is eliminated without giving him a chance to retaliate. However, it also represents Angel's willingness to use others as tools in his mission, even at great emotional cost to them.
My Take:
This act highlights both the strength and flaws in Angel’s leadership:
Strength: Angel is committed to his mission, willing to make the harshest choices to ensure the success of the greater good. He sees the big picture and sacrifices personal relationships and moral purity for what he believes is right.
Flaw: The decision is cold and manipulative, especially toward Lorne, who is deeply shaken by being forced to betray his own moral compass. This act risks alienating his closest allies and raises the question of whether Angel is too willing to compromise his humanity in his quest for redemption.
In the end, Angel's actions show that heroism in his world is far from black and white. The audience is left to grapple with the question: Was Angel justified in betraying Lindsey, or did he cross a line that undermines the very values he fights for? This moral complexity is part of what makes Angel such a compelling series. You're absolutely right-Lindsey wasn’t showing any immediate signs of betrayal in the finale of Angel. He had completed his part of the mission to help take down the Circle of the Black Thorn and even expressed a desire to leave town with Eve, the woman he cared about. This makes Angel’s decision to have Lorne kill him even more unsettling.
Lindsey’s Perspective:
Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat.
Angel’s Perspective:
From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality.
The Moral Ambiguity:
This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste:
Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption.
Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles.
Interpretation:
Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership. Take a lesson mate I alredy knew all of this without chatgpt.
@@Davidscomix You're absolutely right-Lindsey wasn’t showing any immediate signs of betrayal in the finale of Angel. He had completed his part of the mission to help take down the Circle of the Black Thorn and even expressed a desire to leave town with Eve, the woman he cared about. This makes Angel’s decision to have Lorne kill him even more unsettling.
Lindsey’s Perspective:
Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat.
Angel’s Perspective:
From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality.
The Moral Ambiguity:
This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste:
Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption.
Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles.
Interpretation:
Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership.
@@Davidscomix Lindsey’s Perspective:
Lindsey genuinely believed he had earned his freedom after helping Angel and the team. His death comes as a complete shock to him. His final words, “You kill me? A flunky?! Angel kills me,” express his disbelief and bitterness. Lindsey thought he was important enough to warrant direct confrontation with Angel, and instead, he’s assassinated by Lorne, whom he likely didn’t even perceive as a threat.
Angel’s Perspective:
From Angel’s point of view, Lindsey was too dangerous to leave alive. Lindsey had a long history of switching sides and manipulating situations for his benefit. Angel likely viewed him as a ticking time bomb-someone who, even if allowed to leave, might eventually come back stronger and more dangerous. Angel may have also seen Lindsey as symbolic of everything Wolfram & Hart represented: self-interest, ambition, and amorality.
The Moral Ambiguity:
This act solidifies Angel as a leader who prioritizes the mission over personal or moral considerations, but it also leaves a sour taste:
Trust and Redemption: Lindsey’s willingness to leave peacefully with Eve suggests he wasn’t planning betrayal this time, raising the question of whether Angel denied him a chance at redemption.
Lorne’s Burden: Forcing Lorne, a non-violent character, to kill Lindsey feels especially cruel and selfish on Angel’s part. It permanently damages Lorne, who leaves the team immediately after, unable to reconcile this act with his own principles.
Interpretation:
Angel’s decision reflects the central theme of Angel: the fight for good often comes at a cost, and sometimes that cost is unbearable. However, by choosing pragmatism over compassion in this moment, Angel risks undermining his own moral standing. Was Lindsey truly beyond redemption, or was Angel’s distrust clouded by Lindsey’s past actions? The show doesn’t give a clear answer, leaving viewers to wrestle with the ethical implications of Angel’s leadership.
Such a sad ending for such a joyful character. 😢
(Lorne, not Lindsey.)
Check out Lorne's horns in the Season 2 premier and look at them now. What happened?
I really liked Lindsey, but i knew Angel was gonna have him killed for using Doyle's name.
Lorne deserves better the most. Lorne is Soul of Team Angel Investigations. He's not killer. He's not weak for the team.
Oh god i wish Lilah still alive and being part of Team Angel Investigations.
It suppose be Lilah Morgan is the one who will killing Lindsay McDonald. Not Lorne to do it.
Idk man. I got confuse, sounds ok. Lorne is alright but he was a hired killer almost.
People feel bad for Lindsey because they actually thought he would change. Problem is he had multiple chances to change and didn’t. He went back to the dark side every time. Angel knew that. Also a very telling line here that I think most people missed….. Lindsey says he can sing for Lorne and Lorne responded with “I’ve heard you sing”. To me that implies that Lorne knew Lindsey would go back to the being evil. He likely had seen visions of what he’d do when he heard him sing long ago. So to me that confirms they did the right thing. If Lorne truly believed Lindsey was changed I feel like he would’ve fought more to save him. He didn’t put up a fight.
@@purpledove7008
Sure, but he helped them-that was altruistic. He could have waited for them to fail and then taken the pieces. Lorne didn’t want to listen to him; the whole point was that he had changed. He had the girl, and he was fine. Angel did terrible things too, even with a soul-especially during the first 100 years with it. He killed the nicest guy just to enter the circle. You all seem to have selective memory.
"You're wrong, and I have the proof. th-cam.com/video/YyLGGs8hoV4/w-d-xo.html
Big ups to the guest star: OP's mouse
@@jesseharper6669 Who?
@@ExpansionComics your mouse that is visible through the entire video in the lower right hand corner
@@jesseharper6669 yeah low budget.
Sad part that he did alot of bad things like bring back Darla who gets pregnant by angel
Darla was in the first episodes of Buffy.
@@ExpansionComics Iyes I remember that episode
Fun fact lorne dies after well, in next season. Him killing him messed him up nternally 😢
Well he got to restore the harmony of the universe and became a part of its music. Was rather nice end for him.
Him saying "Good Night folks" is real sad to watch now because Andy Hallett died five years after 'Angel' ended.
i hated the series finale anyway
The ending was cool but it didn't bring closure that's why they continued the story in the comics but I never like them.
Because it wasn't supposed to be. They had plans for Season 6.
They were informed halfway through season 5 that wouldn't be renewed. They had several storylines working, but maybe 8 episodes to reach some conclusion. These were the same executives than canned Firefly. I assure you many of us weren't happy with the finale.
@@cyranoboughton874 "those same executives were themselves fired for incompetence" - Futurama
All the fans hated it outside of Spike that whole season sucked. The show just declined from the moment the writers spitefully murdered Cordelia