Can You Forge Weld NIOBIUM??!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2020
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Taking on the unknown challenge of trying to forge weld Niobium together in the forge. Its such a challenge because of the extremely high temperature that it melts at, (4500°F) along with trying to keep it from oxidizing. Hoping to try a combination of canister welding and purging it with argon. Watch the video to see how this all goes for me! Thanks for watching.
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forging space age metals with inert gasses. this might be the most advanced forging video on youtube. i like it a lot
Space age? They've been around for billions of years.
@@bobweiram6321 Yes, but Niobium od for example used mainly in space exploration, like SpaceX vacuum Merlin 1D nozzle extension, it is used in aerospace superalloys like inconel, also it is base of most superconducting alloys. This is why "space age" metal.
While it’s kind of cool doing it that way, it’s not even remotely the most advanced forging video on TH-cam. There are people who make videos about entire mechanized and computerized forging that takes every variable possible into consideration.
Space is fake.
@@MisterRorschach90 Ooh nice I would be keen if you linked to the fellows doing that.
And for OP his original process is totally unnecessary, you just need to clean the plates properly (the hard bit), stack them closely, and seal with weld.
There's no success or failure when you're asking "What happens if?" 👍
experience pillar of science.
Forge a Tungsten Hammer next. An 8lb sledge the size of a finishing hammer...
Titanium hammer with depleted uranium core? 🤔
@@JohnnyDee62 he did the titanium hammer already minus the DU core.
If he can heat it up past 3000°
The thing would look like an incandescent lightbulb out of the forge at that temperature.
Tim pulls billet from the forge for the first time
Me:
Pauses video
Turns down brightness
Puts in eye drops
Resumes video
IKR.. I'm watching this late at night, I've got my brightness on the lowest and I'm running a dark blue filter and it is still bright. Some wicked heat.
Haha, yeah i was pretty supprised when he pulled a bit of the sun out of the forge
🤣😂
an electric forge with a graphite crucible filled with argon would probably work. since argon is heaver than air it would get all the oxygen out of the chamber
Also extremely expensive
@@Mjones8383 not rly. use a induction stove top from junk yard
Could just drill a hole in it and feed argon directly into the forge
I was thinking about a induction heater to heat the metal
You wouldn't happen to be the same Jon Bell I know would you??
Thank you for trying new things. Not every idea works out.
“Next time on can we forge weld we are going to try to forge weld uranium” 😂
Too funny ! 😂
Chernobyl did it
First, we're going to make a glove box. Don't use the grinder. The last thing on that video will be "I found out if I use more material, it takes less heat to get it to temperature... If I make a billet of about 25kg, it should heat itself up. The purity must be good because it said it was weapons-grade"
Its not tooo hard to get your hands on some depleted uranium. But uranium metal has a slight tendency to catch on fire and to produce cancerous dust+smoke
Anybody else feel like this isn't such a well thought out idea ? Asking for a friend
You’ll always have my Like for working with exotic materials. I appreciate your having the gumption to post a failure. It’s important to let your viewers know that not every project works out, especially as planned, so thanks for that.
It’s so bright that it cast shadows on the door when being hammered on
Heat it with an induction heater inside a box filled with argon
4,491°F (2,477°C), extreme melting point may be an understatement.
u my friend, are going to invent unobtanium in one of these episodes. may it be great and have extraordinary properties. Gods speed
Ya, its invisible. 🤣
maybe magnetic induction would heat it up to welding temp
yeah I feel like he could do with an induction heater if he's going to do more of these exotic metals.
Audio backgroud is AWESOME! Greetings from Russia!
Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Thank you ! ! !
U could try with a powerful induction forge.
Its about the same hardness as titanium and the "ductility scale" is compared to iron. Sounds like some good stuff!
I have to be honest I’ve never thought of forge welding niobium. The reason for that being I’ve never heard of niobium. I'm a true novice! This channel is entertaining, educational and phenomenally under subscribed. There are a couple of 'smithing channels I enjoy but none as much as this one.
You have genuinely won my interest and a sub with the materials you have been working with. Love it.
maybe an inductive forge in an argon environment
p.s. love these science videos
Oxygen purged high temperature kiln casting. Which is a multi million dollar setup. Also as a glass blower I have to warn you to wear a welding shade type glasses when exposed to that level of brightness. Cheerio Timothy, your quest for exotic metal knowledge is noble and brave even in forge welding defeat.
Yeah Dyck boy, makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that vid
You guys are the best creators on TH-cam, by far. Just wish you got the views you deserved. Always a good day with a Tim and co. video drop. Keep up the excellent work Tim.
I dig the purge idea. It'll be interesting to see how it works out.
You're taking it to the next level with this! Awesome stuff
tig weld all through the layers, in all sides, solid weld around it with tig.
So cool! Even if it didn't work out the way everyone wanted to, it's such an awesome idea! You inspire me
Great Video, keep your journey going! Love your videos!
Such a cool project Tim! I really love watching your videos and love learning about these cool rare metals through your channel! I'd love to see you anodise it for a project!
Wow Tim that's a pretty amazing video to see. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Love ur videos. It's always interesting to see because every single video you always seem to try something new. It's very cool to see you test ur skills in every single time u light the forge up. So cool. forge on
Interesting stuff, love seeing people experiment on their own like this.
Well that was unusual and interesting. Looks like the answer is "only under very special circumstances."
Don't feel bad. I'd rather see you risk it. Success or failure in the project is irrelevant. I think most will agree that I want to see both. Challenge yourself just take us along for the ride.
Trying doing it the Japanese way, with the paper, clay and cloth! And I was reading that you shouldn't keep niobium at a high temp for too long... Maybe more research is required before retesting.
I love these experimental projects! So awesome keep up the great work!!
happy for the growing chanle mate keep it up
A bit of an expensive project:
1) build a vacuum chamber with ports for an induction heater
2) form your billet
3) place the billet inside the induction coil, then clamp the billet in a large C-clamp (probably need a ceramic block on either side of the billet, the C-clamp needs to be large enough that it stays pretty far away from the induction coil)
4) Pull a vacuum, you need a high vacuum 10^-3 Torr at most, 10^-6 Torr would be better.
5) Heat with the induction heater (you'll need a strong power source considering how hot it needs to be, and a low frequency inducer to get deep penetration).
6) Leave it for several hours at just below its melting point - being under pressure from the clamp will cause crystals to grow across the interface between the layers.
An alternative to an induction heater, microwave heating is also possible.
BTW: unless you are using electronics grade (99.9999+% purity, denoted as grade 6.0N, 6.5N, etc.) argon, the argon has too much oxygen for what you are trying to do.
That is CRAZY bright! It's as if you're forging the actual sun!
Tims coke dealer really came through for him. That's the biggest bags of coke I ever seen.
Niobium is by far my favorite metal to make jewelry from! Relatively easy to work with and anodizes to such amazing colors. Although
Tantalum makes the best anodized color of all the reactive metals.
I've never heard off this metal but it sounds cool
Well damn. You gave it a valiant try. Hey, it was just for kicks! And we all got that. You could have scraped the video, but you shared. This keeps it real.
This kind of stuff is especially cool with a bit of knowledge in materials science.
@17:22 Maybe put it in a vacuum chamber with an infusion of argon gas? Try to cold weld it somehow?
Either way this project was an awesome experiment for science! 👍🏾
You might try to make a small thermite forge.
It’s used a lot organic chemical refining. There’s a lot of niobium in the furnace tubes that hydrocarbons are cracked in due to the extreme amount of heat energy required to crack the hydrocarbons chains it’s an ideal metal for this process some of the furnace tubes will run for continuous for months with metal temperatures over 2000 f and an international chemical temperature of close to 1600 f. It’s a very resilient material in extreme temperatures.
Thats a great quality brother keep moving forward god bless
Been watching for a few months now, and only realized now that your Canadian ! Hey from New Brunswick !
maybe...welding goggles next time...
Awesome vid. More unusual metals please.
This is my first time ever watching a video from this channel holy hell I’m in love with that giant coal forge i subbed with notis because of it
Just subbed 👍🏽 great video! Great quality!
Man oh man that's some kind of tough stuff there Tim. Great effort though just the same!
I think what is happening is that the tig welds burn up in places, letting oxygen in before you ever get in the first hammer strike. Here is something that might work.
1. Create a purged atmosphere work perspex enclosure where you can fit in some power tools and a small heat treating oven
2. Cut your pieces.
3. Put pieces and tools in the enclosure
4. Purge with argon.
5. Grind the surfaces shiny and dip in acid suitable to get the remaining oxide off
6. tig weld the billet, then tig weld your can around it
7. Coat the can in ceramic layer by layer
8. Cure the ceramic in the heat treating oven
9. take out of the enclosure, proceed to forge heat, smack it as hard as you can with the power hammer, you will only get a few blows before oxygen has crept everywhere again.
Never know if you don't try. Lesson learned. Hey the titanium hammer turned out great.
I really enjoy your videos
That earned my Sub, that first attempt was epic lol
Really enjoy your creativity and your attention to detail is tremendous. Fun video, niobium is crazy tough. Great effort.
Tim.Looks like the heat was to cold a electric furnace and Argon and bring it up to near melting point and use the power hammer process good start Tim.
Cannot recall the exact temperatures involved, it was a long time ago (during the 80's). But all the Niobium I worked on, hot rolled bar, was rolled well under 850C (1562F). Preheating in an electric furnace, minimum times as Niobium oxidises heavily above about 500C (932F). At high temperatures, it can also easily take in Carbon (from the coke) forming brittle carbides.
You never know until you try, and success rarely comes without a failure or two.
I'm not sure if they get hot enough but from what I understand the Paragon heat treating furnace has an oxygen free chamber once it's heating up. If so that could give you the results you're looking for. Just a thought. 👍⚒
A couple ideas... more one idea, and a theory.
Perhaps using a press to hold pressure instead of impact welding would allow them to bond.
With the weld temperatures needed for the material. If the thermal properties of the tig material isn't high enough, you will likely be melting off the sealing welds of the canister which would allow it to flood with oxidizers.
Over all, a good experiment. I always enjoy your content.
Have you considered an induction coil? You could then introduce an inert gas to reduce oxidisation more easily.
Nice vid! Greetings from Rome!
Was hoping to see a niobium hammer or axe or something haha. Super cool experiment, and by cool I mean unfathomably hot.
@Timothy Dyke how about induction heating of a sealed assembly, like the second assy? induction heat doesn't have an upper temperature, and you could put this inside a glass tube with argon inside.
Not sure if I saw this, when tig welding the billet maybe try doing it in an argon bath. Since the tig doesn’t need anything but the current you could flood a box and remove all oxygen. Possibly do your surfacing in that too so there’s zero opportunity for oxidation while closing the billet.
In addition I like what others are saying with the argon bath and induction forging.
That looks like a bit of study is needed to understand the techniques, environment, and working of the material. This was a brave attempt and props on that! This is some scientific metal and I would love to see another video of your deep dive and findings on this stuff. Seeing as you might need a million dollar lab to work it, giving it to the F it bucket would be totally cool. ✌
You may want to try doing a sintering weld of the sheets at a lower, it looks like the sintering temperature is substantially lower for niobium. That would also allow you to have the enclosure be a different metal that is more robust against against oxidizing at your working temp?
This is pretty interesting. Guess I will stick around to see what else happens here.
Very interesting metal
The first thing that i would recommend to try to improve the result is the use of safety glasses that are adequate for the job: some heavily tinted glasses, or even a welding helmet. If you can't see what you are doing, it's hard to know what you are really doing.
Which brings me to my second point, I don't think it was hot enough. The fact that it's so hot that it blinds you doesn't mean that it is really hot for the niobium, and stops you from seeing the real variations of the color/ light.
Third: why didn't you use any flux ? Yes you can forge weld steel without flux, but you will still use it to help reduce the amount of oxydation and improve your chances of success.
The use of argon was a pretty interesting idea, as well as trying to forge weld niobium. I am looking forward to see a part 2 of this new quest if you find any information that you think could work!
My only suggestion here if ever you get some more of that material would be to do the set up the same but use some oxy's with four burners and set to carburising flames to heat it. It will get it hotter than your charcoal fire which I think is what's preventing that from fusing. Great video all the same.
you can try this in a induction heater, may be can reach the weld temperature, but seal the canister with argon gas . or just try to weld with a low melting point metal between the layers,like steel. you can try with titanium, for tests if you can beat the oxidation problem just run to reach high temperatures(i supouse that titanium is cheap than niobium ) .
Hahahahahaha!!
I work with Niobium in Aerospace. This made me smile
Nice truck! Those are getting hard to find.
gut feeling, hell ya you can
Either way Tim, good job at least trying to get it to weld. That's some crazy heat, and a 5 shade might not be enough brother....
i leget watch you working, and sit here llike.... "i would love to go to BC and meet this man" lol
Guy needs a mil subs
Well you tried.E for effort. Evidently it is like titanium and not hardenable. It was fun watching you try
Very cool experiment. Might be a great induction forge project?
I'll give you an "A" for effort, that's for sure!
Greetings from Salem, Oregon!! 🌲🌲🌲🌲
Nice vid! 👍
a learning experience is is just that. You learned some thing new. why not use the failed a temps with another high temp metal to make Damascus. You pulled off the titanium knife though it took forever and it was beautiful. I watched every ep. of its making
You could try DIY an induction coil to heat it in a small forge that's being absolutely flooded with Argon/etc. I'm not sure if you could be hammering on it in an inert atmosphere though. You could probably investigate any special fluxes for Niobium too.
Wow, that is unbelievably bright! It looks so wrong! Too bad it didn't weld.. I was really looking forward to seeing a titanium/niobium damascus!
Good to know
don't let it get you down mate at lest you had a go.
And I really enjoy the videos more when you say
I wonder what happens WHEN .(:
Tim my family and I have been enjoying the content you are producing for some time now. thank you for your hard work. With regards to using flux. Is there a flux recipe that can withstand those temperatures? Keep up the hard work. Thank you for the effort we truly enjoy the content you produce.
Why has this channel never been suggested to me before all I watch is forging and metal work and I get suggested steak in toaster and other crap hahah deffo earned a sub
Maybe using more ventilators to heat the forge up to a higher temperature and using a flir to confirm temps before going in. Since its not steel, you might want to take the" make sure twice forge it once " kind of approach
Very interesting metal, Niobium is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cool video
I really like that you take chance at doing something even knowing you are not sure if it will succeed
Looked at a bunch of comments. You should look into platinum soldering glasses to even be able to judge metal that needs to reach that temperature. #5 or stronger. Most induction can’t reach temps of 4500*+ they do make water cooled induction units, but honestly not worth the investment for a few fun projects. Talking to my platinum caster a few months back about the equipment he used made my jaw drop and head hurt. Materials that have such a high melting pointe also tend to cool fast AF once taken away from the heat. I think your first attempt with argon could have worked if you let it melt before your first blow. I don’t think you could have taken it out and hit it fast enough to really bond the layers. I’m not a blacksmith but I enjoy the content. Bummer it failed but it got my brain churning to solving the puzzle. With Pt small (1g) piece is easy to get up to temp, large ingot (14g) is significantly harder to melt. So maybe your argon and a way smaller pieces.🤷🏻♂️ thanks for putting the video out even though it didn’t turn out!💪🏻🤘🏻
"A lesser man would've died" I'll be stealin' that.
The mandos have a new Smith!!
We have a furnace at my work which uses a niobium element that gets to ~2000°C without falling apart or fusing. Also, niobium is quite reactive at elevated temps - it'll react with nitrogen above a few hundred degrees. A charcoal forge has no hope I'm afraid.
First time watching I will subscribe and what I’ve noticed you should get yourself a pair of prescription sunglasses because man that damn thing was hot great video very informative keep up the good work and most of all stay safe
Induction forging in an inert gas might work. The setup could be a nightmare though.
You might also want to try induction forging in a vacuum chamber. Vacuum welding might be possible even without a great deal of heat.