I hope Vera managed to watch The Legend of Ruby Sunday before they noticed the massive uptick in views and comments on this video lmao, that may well have given the game away otherwise!
Part of me desperately wants to see Sutekh make an epic return on the current series. Another part is terrified of what Chris Chibnall might do to him. (No, I'm not scared of Chibnall turning Sutekh into a white guy, you anti-PC douchebags. Hell, he's ALREADY played by a white guy!)
I've been slowly making my way through Classic Who and have generally enjoyed most of it, but yeah, I didn't care for Pyramids of Mars or Talons of Weng-Chiang, either.
Talons overrated? With a creepy villain, opium dens, magic shows, giant rats in the sewers, Leila "Eliza Dolittle', Jago and Litefoot, a Chinese Time Cabinet, and the Peking Homunculous (oink oink) overrated? Seriously, what more could you want?
Technically there is a reference to this serial in The Music episode where The Doctor explains if he doesn’t stop this thing in the past your present won’t exist
I heard the reason that Tom's performance was so serious in this one was because he really didn't get on with the director so his overall mood on set bled on screen. Which I think is kinda cool cos the performance benefits but kinda crappy at the same time. Surprised to see a more negative review of this story though, I really love it but that most likely is how great Sutehk (think that's right) is. "You are nothing but an Ant" and all that stuff is chilling
Wingy media I watch your channel and I am aware how much you love Pyramids of Mars, I love Pyramids of Mars too and I actually might love it just as much as Genesis of the Daleks. I remember what you said about Tom Baker's performance, you bring up good points similar to the Council of Geeks in this video. Also, I didn't know you watched Council of Geeks channel.
I've always laughed at the way the poacher was killed. It looks as though he's trapped between two matronly women and smothered by their enormous bosoms.
Does this man know what he's talking about. Sure even in a modern a era a dip in the pace of the story will occur in order to build up a final climax. What went out was 25min episodes a week. People didnt have video streaming downloads to watch the resolution instantly. As for tom baker his first 3 and a half years his portral was dark and serious. You talk a load of crap and have the attention span of a goldfish. Dear oh dear.
The poacher had a point, the mummies hunting him down had a point. The whole point was to establish the shield that Sutekh put around, which the Doctor disables which informs Sutekh of 'an alien' interference; secondarily that extended chase scene shows that A: the mummies can't be disabled by bullets and B: are tireless in their pursuit and C: with the one that got caught in a bear trap aren't incredibly smart but smart enough. The poacher isn't 'meant to be deeply explored character' he's a plot contrivance like so many Red Shirts in Star Trek; he's fundamentally disposable just like Doctor Warlocke is....whose only point is to show that this isn't just some case of fraud but something murderously serious. You can't judge classic Who pacing and plot/character contrivances by modern day standards...you just can't, TV from this time period was very much about filling time and plot, character's deeply explored was a bonus...so insisting on it in many of these stories are a fool's errand. At the time these kind of things weren't that weird or odd, or even noticeably boring. The mummies in this story are like Romero zombies, they aren't fast they aren't really threatening until you realize that you're trapped inside with them and they don't respond to gun shots or punching....now if you just came off of the Day After Tomorrow hardcore parkour zombies you'd maybe go 'well this is boring and slow and dumb' but if you are doing that then you are missing the point. The mummies didn't have to be fast because the people are trapped in the shield bubble with them, there's no where to go; the mummies are an inevitable, unstoppable force that will eventually catch up to you because they don't get tired but you most certainly will and there's not lots of places to hide....added to that is the idea that the mummies are servicer robots, not really designed to be killers but rather to build the rocket, they just get co-opted into killing because that's all Sutekh has on hand (yes, the one that holds down his cushion). I mean furthermore on the point of the mummies, I doubt they were actually meant to be mummies (other than when we see Horace's servicer robot it looked like one....) but part of me likes to believe that it was Namin's idea to hide the robots as mummies....and truthfully if we'd gotten to the last episode and seen the guardian robot look mildly different than the mummy robot (maybe covered in some kind of armor or soemthing) that'd been awesome but we all know that design-wise the show probably couldn't afford making a special 'armor for the Martian robots'. I rewatched it last year, and loved it. I see the flaws in it (the riddle tunnel at the end is just a wholesale rip off of Death to the Daleks; and there's some questioning as to why Sutkeh has to use the transporter...when he could destroy the world from Egypt WITH HIS MIND!), but that's just Doctor Who; I don't have a problem with that, just like I don't have a problem per se with things like the Ogri clearly being dragged along on tracks in Stones of Blood... I mean the Scarman brothers work, you feel gutted with what happens to him and his brother. Hell the giddy joy he has when he's in the TARDIS and his resolve to fix it when he sees 'alternative time' is great. Also the framing of the story of Sutekh and Horace, of brothers who fight and go to war with each other and the ultimate morality of 'sealing evil in a can' rather than destroying it adds layers to the character and the story....and no they don't get touched on but none they are there for the audience to muse upon on rewatch and yes lots of that is due to the excellent acting done by Tom Baker and Gabriel Woolf who is absolutely magnificent as Sutekh. But even the other actors get little bits and pieces to shine in (barring the few 'expendable characters'). Pyramids of Mars is not the best Doctor Who stories ever, it's not the best executed it's not the most original or necessarily thrilling. However Pyramids of Mars is ostensibly the most quintessentially Doctor Who serial of any Doctor Who serial, it is the most Doctor Who-iest story of Doctor Who, specifically classic era but ostensibly the entire series, ever. It is a space thing, with an alien attack on Earth; it's happening in history and deals with ancient Earth history, it's a story about gods and horrible villains there are run-arounds some of them less impressive than others, there's quick-witted traps and plans and counter-traps and there's the Doctor being the brilliant scientist adventurer that he is rather than a a magical wizard or demi-god....Although, just to be completionists some forty years ahead of time, they even fit in the angsting that the Doctor gets up to in the new series about being an nigh immortal god-like being that putzes about with mortals. Pyramids of Mars is distilled essence of Doctor Who...now it's not the best executed story but that in and of itself is what makes it even more 'Doctor Who' than some better executed stories like Caves of Andronzani or Daleks Masterplan....or Blink or Father's Day.
Quite right you are....it is Horus. The last episode is the weakest, because of the Exxilon plot....and the story does feel like it's just treading water because it needs to fill an additional twenty minutes when it's only got six left in it.
The Masked Ermine I liked and agreed with your comments. But, and please don't be upset, I had to laugh at Sutekh having a brother called Horace! 😄 The Egyptian chief god (sometimes in some parts) was Horus. Still, at least you didn't misquote the Doctor as I did! (Above). Aargh! Is there no way to edit our own comments once posted?
Well said. His comment about walking in eternity a classic. How far above humanity are the time lords? Millions of years perhaps. Now you face something still far more powerful than mere time lords who were as gods when they 1st gained power ovrr time. Now are you scared? That threat to eradicate all life no idle boast. Think to new who and the reality bomb. Child's play to Sutek but far too quick. Where's the suffering in turning to dust. He hates life. He seeks to destroy it but wants everyone to know it's coming, who's responsible and wants them to suffer before and during. Give a show only a book can deliver. The great Powers rose and were destroyed trying to end the war. Possibly the 1st great time war.if that means anything with time travel. The story is epic. Classic who operated on a budget today that might adjusted for inflation cover catering the show. They did pretty damn well. Remember UK in 70's hit hard with high inflation and energy shortages due to oil crisis and industrial actions on a semi regular basis.
As the Jon Pertwee era was very James Bond many of the stories in the Tom Baker era veered very much toward the Hammer films and I think Pyramids of Mars did capture that Hammer feeling very well. Perhaps whether you or anyone rates this story very highly depends more on how much you love the Hammer films and can notice and appreciate the leanings toward that particular style and tone of story and not on a love of science fiction. I'm a huge Hammer fan and I do love this Dr Who story and The Talons of Weng Chiang. I remember being taken to an awesome Dr Who exhibition in Blackpool when I was a child. They had a life size animatronic giant rat from Weng Chiang complete with glowing red eyes. The funny thing was, it looked far better and more convincing and terrifying than the one fx technicians used in the actual episode. I have Pyramids of Mars and Weng Chiang taking pride of place in my Dr Who DVD collection. Two of my favourite stories from the Tom Baker era but I get that different people have different tastes. Many fans of classic Who love Ark in Space and that is actually one of my least favourites. Different strokes for different folks.
Please remember the time the series was made. Late 70’s. The mummies were intended to be, well a cross between Frankenstein’s Monster and a mummy. Heavy lifting work bots. The monsters in movies and more so TV were very much on this level. Look at the near countless Hammer Film monsters. Thing about the Sleastak in Land of the Lost (The original TV series). Yes, a budget would help, but Dr. Who had a low budget even compared to its contemporaries. Another aspect is for many Tom Baker was their introduction to this show. It is very sentimental to many.
I just had to watch it because of Legend of Ruby Sunday of course, and for the most part I enjoyed it. The lumbering mummies? Fairly common to have ridiculously slow monsters back in the day. Just about every American sci-fi series of the time, as well as Star Trek TOS, are guilty of that. It also made me sad that Elizabeth Sladen is no longer with us. Nothing against Mel, but I wish that Sarah Jane could’ve been there also, and had met Fifteen, especially since she was there when Four defeated Sutekh. That would’ve been some interesting banter between her and Fifteen.
I agree the pacing was a little off although it’s not the only time Doctor Who serials are stretched out a bit too long. The Doctor is played well. Sarah-Jane was kinda right that The Doctor could resign from UNIT. The effects are pretty good for the time the episodes were made.
Got to say I love this story and it's one of my favourite Classic Who stories. I've always heard complaints about the pacing and never understood it. It's more about giving the story a sense of tension and building up the stakes of the story. I actually found the mummies very scary as a child and I grew up with New Who. It's one of Tom Bakers best performances and puts him at his most vulnerable and Sutek is a brilliant villain with a lot of depth and backstory and interesting ideas and concepts. I do think part four is a let down though as it just turns into filler and an uninteresting run around.
This serial was one of the first Doctor Who stories my mum showed me as a kid, and it seriously creeped me out (especially Scarman... he still creeps me out). To this day it holds as one of my favourite serials ever. You're right about the poacher's side plot, but I find it easy to forgive, mostly because I prefer Classic Who to Modern Who by a long way.
My dad watched this classic with me, it's a testimony to this episode's quality that a man who has never seen an episode of Doctor who can watch 4 straight hours of an Egyptian God chasing around a time traveller wearing a scarf and still love it.
I think your review in the face of your age is both fair and reasonable. Some light on a couple of questions you asked, the whole Egypt/Aliens things and Egyptology as a whole was fairly new and this was one of the first (if not the first) filmed Sci-Fi element to take it on (novels and short stories had it beat by a few years). And as you stated the whole time paradox thing was really a novel idea here - though I'm not positive, I believe Moffet has stated this was one of his inspirations for his style. Pacing is fine but only if you take into account everything else done by the BBC at the time. The 50 - 80 BBC remind me of Ents in LotR -'it's not worth doing unless it's takes a long time to do it". As I stated first off, I think your review is fair considering; It's hard to imagine a world where you "dial" a phone (with an actual rotary dial), a world where a single computer would fill a whole room and still not have the computing power in an iPhone and where the idea of digital effects were whatever the cartoonist could draw onto the film cels - oh and that the medium used was actually film. But it was and it had its limits and we worked within those limits. By way of example - One of the best fantasy sci-fi effects of all time (until recently) was the flying dragon sequence in Dragonslayer - if was a blue screen (yes they used to be blue not green) model that was stop motion animated and used layered shot effects to give the illusion of a flying dragon that was breathing fire and interacting with the characters on the screen. With the limited technology available - it was still more believable than Smaug in "The Hobbit", IMO. You should check it out to use as a yard stick - that's a measuring tool we used back when we rode dinosaurs to school. ;)
this is an Osirian! They are an immortal race! Far more powerful than the time lords, and took the form of their death god! A time the doctor has a RIGHT to be afraid this time. Bakers seriousness makes sense here. I enjoy it, not my favourite, but top 5!
Yeah I agree it is a little overhyped. But Sutec is a great one time villain and Tom's performance is excellent. Season 13 is also one of my favourite seasons of the show.
The poacher mattered in a couple of ways. And the thing is, once his part in the story was done, what to do with him? His purpose in the plot being to show that Scarman is both more and less than human. Plus he got one of the more memorable deaths in the story. And don't forget, Doctor Who of this era was made with children in mind. And a common childhood nightmare is being chased by something slow and relentless. While feeling like you're wading through water. Robert Holmes was great at finding these kind of situations. Or as he put it, "Lets scare the little buggers to death!"
Classic Who stories have episodes but when talking about the series, we had seasons of stories. Episodes of DW makes me think of the New Who, so in the spirit of a true Whovian, please use the correct terms.
I totally agree that Tom Baker and Gabriel Woolf (Sutekh) are the main attractions in a story which might otherwise have looked like a Hammer Horror spoof. But I would also give a big shout-out to Bernard Archard, whose portrayal of possessed Egyptologist Marcus Scarman really sets the tone early on. His cadaverous characterisation of calm, arrogant malice could so easily have overstepped and looked ridiculous, but he nailed it. Gabriel Woolf (and, yes, he did also voice the Beast in The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit) had to convey all that with his voice alone of course. The mummies? Well, hm, I was 9 when I first watched it, and I can't really remember whether I thought they looked clunky or not. I was probably fairly uncritical. I DO remember thinking the single most unconvincing thing in the whole story was the death of the poacher! He clearly wasn't completely exhausted: he was still standing. So why did he let these glacially-slow f##kwits catch him? That was badly done, and really undermined the only slender point of the poacher-chasing scene: to establish the mummies' power. Well, yeah, maybe if the poacher had got HIS foot stuck in that mantrap! Another questionable plot device was the reappearance of the puzzle-maze-thing. Actually it was quite good fun, but almost a carbon-copy of the Exxilon maze in Death to the Daleks, yet neither the Doctor nor Sarah Jane showed any sign of déjà-vu. And the idea that the Doctor had to work out the solution to the well-known truth-teller/liar conundrum was insulting. Finally, I can't leave Pyramids without mentioning that famous line in the first few minutes of the story, which like Scarman and the manic organ music helps to build a sense of numinous malevolence. The Doctor's boggly eyes staring intensely into unknown depths, he says in a tone of unwonted gravity, almost tragically: "I'm a Timelord, Sarah. I walk in infinity!" And Sarah Jane, bless her, immediately deflates him. The point of course is to remind us how different, and how powerful, the Doctor really is and thereby to accentuate the sheer, ungovernable, godlike might of Sutekh.
Good review, even if you don't like as much as some. I watched it when it was first broadcast (and then my love of the story was enhance by the multiple re-readings of Target novel, which is certainly a superior way of appreciating the story than rewatching the episodes is today) as a 10 year old. At the time, it had more cultural relevance that would be appreciated now. The Hammer Horror films were often shown on BBC TV in Prime Time back then. The story played off that knowledge and would certainly have enhanced our appreciation, especially as it subverting a classic horror genre environment into a sci-fi one.
have you noticed how the production values go up when ever who went into the past, this was back in the days when the BBC had huge warehouses full of sets and costumes left over from their big expensive historic dramas which dr who took huge advantage of . one of the problems you run into with old who is that it wasn't taken seriously by a lot of people working on it hence the mummies
Bit late to the party here, and I'm sure you've gotten loads of comments like this but I thought I could add something new. This is the most morbid Classic Doctor Who story for me and the only good example of a trope in this show that I really don't like; that being, everyone dies except the Doctor and the companion. The characters in the story are caught and killed one by one and I think this was the point of the poacher. He had nothing to do with the plot and was just an innocent bystander but nevertheless, no one who got stuck in Sutehk's shield (barring the usual suspects) made it out alive. Sutekh invades this ordinary setting and I think the reason he is so effective is seen through the death of the poacher: the killing in this story is random and impersonal.
I'm not sure if you've seen it or if you are planning to ever review it, but Terror of the Zygons is probably my favorite Classic story I've seen so far. (I'm still watching the middle of 4th doctor though) Seriously, I can't recommend it enough.
Personally it's my favorite story out of classic and new who. I think it's well paced (in my opinion), has great mood and atmosphere, and a great doctor as Tom Bakers always is. Is it perfect? No but I like very much.
I just finished watching Pyramids of Mars. The special effects were whack, but I needed to know who Sutekh was. I can’t wait for the season finale (Disney+ 2024 version)😊 #whovianforlife
I love this story and to an extent, I see where you're coming from but I love the mummy design as there is something off about them from the start you can tell they're not just mummys and I think a more realistic take just wouldn't work. Although the poacher has possibly too much screen time as well, his death is terrifying and shows the true power of the mummys showing they are not just cannon fodder compared to sutek.
You totally miss the point with the mummies, they are very basic robots, they can’t do much more than follow orders. Look at the animal trap scene. They are lumbering objects. The mummies chase Ernie down because he gets tired, a confined space with one untiring relentless chaser and a faster pray. There is also the poacher becoming the prey. The Doctor is at his most alien here from the walking in eternity to the showing of alternative Earth. I rewatched this story today and I only just noticed the discarding of the body of Lawrence Scarman by The Doctor. The Doctor basically rolls the inconvenient body out of the way. It’s a mere moment but it is so not the warm and cosy Doctor we are used to. I’d finally like to remind you that Mummy On A Train style effects hadn’t been dreamed of in 1975 and if New Who had 5% of the writing talent of classic Who then it wouldn’t be the pile of steaming garbage that it is.
For me my problems lie with the design of the mummies and the ending, which is a bit too cheesy and arch, even for Classic Who. Surprisingly I found the episode to be devoid of monotony and pretty fun. I think Tom Baker’s performance probably elevated this story and I can see why people point to that as the reason why this story is a masterpiece.
I've always had a mixed response to Pyramids of Mars. Personally, I find it fairly mediocre and even out of place for the Tom Baker run. At the same time, I think the latter part is why it rates so highly on so many lists, because Tom Baker's Doctor is never so affected by and terrified of an opponent (and because Sutekh isn't an overblown enemy.)
Yeah I'm with you on the overhype. It's got some strong elements but some of the writing is a bit iffy in places and wouldn't rank high on my personal list (give me City of Death any day). Also I have to wonder if Sutekh was this much of a threat why didn't the Doc consider getting the Time Lords for back-up if they're willing to interfere in potential dangerous affairs during this era. Speaking of Tom Baker Who the Twitch marathon has been a good opportunity to fill in the remaining gaps in his era for me. Although the timing has meant I've been seeing some of the stories on Dailymotion just so I don't fall behind. ANOTHER MISTAKE STYRE.
On the whole Aliens in Egyptian Mythology, the idea existed for a while but this is one of the firsts to really do it and be popular. Also interesting to note, this story is one of the few classic era stories to be directed by a woman. Paddy Russell directed I think four stories from 1966-1977
Mummies being really slow but somehow catching up with people is standard, like in Hammer Horror etc. Even some Frankenstein's monsters. Mohamed Ali always used to do a bit about that.
Mummies lumbering around was a 1960's trope left over from the old Mummy movies. Also the scare was this slow inexorable thing coming after you, but also it ate up time which was key to classic Who. See Lost in Space for a slow paced Mummy chase. Old Dr Who tended to be so, so, so slow. It's all relative. It was one of the better of old WHO.
Got to disagree when you have a Bob Holmes script one of his better scripts, you cant go wrong with much. Same with a lot of the scripts from Terrance Dicks. But Doctor Who is subjective, and to be fair to find an American willing to make a video on Classic Who instead of only ever talking about New Who is refreshing. But I think the big thing at least for me was I was raised on Classic Who, Bob Holmes being one of my all time favourite Who writers who wrote stories mostly based on a lot of British life and attitudes. As a bit general info The Sun Makers was written by Holmes after receiving a tax bill, love that story. I love this story but its interesting to hear your take on this classic story, but I vehemently disagree with your opinion. I'm a fan of New Who as well I just dont agree with your mixed feelings on this.
This episode fit for the style of television in the 70's. So for its time period it was good. The poacher was there to establish the barrier around the area. You totally missed the guy who played Marcus His performance was awesome. Yeah, the mummies looked stupid but the episode is still one of my favorite episodes.
God bless your impatient patron … a treat! It's flawed and perhaps a little over-hyped, but this is the story that unforgettably terrified and enthralled me on first broadcast as a four year old and still thrills me to this day. Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts. thankyou :)
Really random and I'm not mad but the artwork used for this video thumbnail is mine that I made way back in 2012. Quite surreal to come across it again.
oh someone else notices the similarity too. I loved studying ancient egypt in school (show me anyone over the age of 30 who didnt - cant speak for the young ones!!!) And saw it straight away. I actually enjoyed this story, while its not in my top ten (and how do you rank a performance that went for 41 STORIES (times 4-6 episodes per stories) it is still quite high up there
I watched this for the first time last year. I couldn't believe the tension in this story was still so powerful since its 40 years old. Amazing. but the mummies are good for a laugh.
Compare this with something like The Seeds of Doom, which has much better pacing, story and characters as well as everything good about The Pyramids of Mars: Tom Baker, who gave a similar performance in The Seeds of Doom to this one, and a fantastic villain.
I saw this ep on youtube a few years ago, first time since childhood, and thought it stood up pretty well. It's on my DVD wishlist as a result. It's also the episode with my favourite Sarah Jane costume.
I'm on this Doctor who fan site and newcomers to Doctor Who would ask were should they start with this series, and the old fans would always say to start at the very beginning with AN UNEARTHLY CHILD, and i would saw, "Are you insane!" That's like telling someone to watch Star wars in numerical order, It's a BAD idea!
Once their hooked on Who you start them on the classic series with the INVASION OF TIME! It's just like a Stephen Moffat show! The pass is surprisingly quick and everything is in it! The Sontarans! The Matrix! The Doctor becomes lord President of the Time Lords! It's awesome!
im not sure if u have done this already but since chris chibnall has taken over doctor who would u be open for doing a top ten for torchwood or even a Sarah Jane one. I only ask cause its something that u not really touched on
The problem with both of those is it would require me revisiting those series and... I don’t really want to. Not that I seriously disliked either one but with only a handful of exceptions both were things I watched and never needed to see again. That’s the sort of project it’s hard for me to justify the time needed to do it right.
Here's the mini review I did of the story (trying not to spoil anything): This one was a rewatch for me; in fact this was the first story of classic Who I ever watched. When I first saw it, I thought it dragged on for too long, and found Tom Baker’s performance to be lacklustre. So, now that I’ve seen it again, are my thoughts the same? I think perhaps that I was simply not used to the style of these stories at that point in time, because I now find Tom’s performance to be just as good as it usually is, and while the story did drag for a little bit, it was nothing too serious. However, I do have other complaints. The design of the mummy robots was a mite stupid, the Mars sets were unimaginative, the voice of the service robot in the pyramid was awful, there are two scenes dedicated to the Doctor opening the same door, and the story concludes far too quickly with a stunningly weak close for Sutekh’s character. I did like a lot about it though. The story was intelligent and interesting, and Elisabeth Sladen was on fine form, proving that Sarah Jane Smith is a badass who cannot be messed with. The supporting cast performed fairly well too. But of course I’ve saved the best ‘til last. Sutekh is an absolutely marvellous villain. Everything about him, from his design to his voice, to his powers, is perfection. He’s one of the most intimidating threats Doctor Who has ever produced, and yet all he does is sit in a chair and issue commands. But anyone who can bring the Doctor to his knees with a single thought is a worthy villain in my opinion. The one problem with Sutekh is that he looks awful without his helmet. Pyramids of Mars is certainly a great story, but not the flawless masterpiece people seem determined to make it out to be. 8.5/10
We noticed the double door opening sequence in our re-watch and can only chalk it up to them re-filming the scene for some reason and continuity department flubbing it.... We watched the movie cut of the story though, but I don't think that sequence was timed for a 'cliffhanger' where they may have re-filmed the sequence to bridge the two episodes (at the beginning of next weeks episode)....so not sure what happened there. The whole set-piece on Mars is a retread of Death to the Daleks (to the extent that Sarah Jane calls out the whole thing in the episode 'this reminds me of the City of the Exxilons') and the fourth episode (final quarter) is the weakest part of it for me. Though I think the end for Sutekh is equal parts clever and fitting...with an omnipotent force defeated by a fairly simple trap that preyed on its hubris and lust for destruction....
That is a good point. Though obviously I haven't watched it in a while. I hate to plug things, but if you want to hear any more of my thoughts, I have a review blog here: verdes-random-reviews.tumblr.com/ in which I've reviewed every story from Season 12-Season 17 of Classic Who, as well as a few books. I'm currently making my way through Season 18, which will probably be my next review.
julie everett Set wasn’t the jackal god, no one knows exactly what animal Set’s head was, the jackal god is Anubis. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying the mask was poorly made.
With slow pacing the difference is all in the first few minutes. If there’s a compelling hook established early on the details don’t feel like fluff. If it fails or there’s some kind of disconnect it will be a slog.
I agree partly because I've always felt that this story was a bit overrated. However I think you're really not giving it its due for the effects - They're REALLY GOOD for the TIME! It's the Mid 1970s! NOT 1988 Star Trek Next Gen or 1995 {Buffy/Stargate}! They didn't have the massive budget that the first season of Battlestar Galactica got {and even that was a couple years later!}. And frankly this came out in the same Dr Who era as The Ark in Space with its bubblewrap cocoons AND The Invisible Enemy with its laughable monster! Also - Those mummies looked a heck of a lot better BEFORE Brendan Fraser's The Mummy came out in 1999! Pyramids of Mars was slow, it did go round in circles a couple of times to pad out the story BUT it's still a d@mn good story and though not amongst the best of Tom Baker's run by a long shot it's certainly above the average.
Personally I have an extremely unpopular opinion of this story cause I find Sutekh to be overly pompous and almost cartoonish in his speech patterns :P That's just the vibe that I get from him. The thing that I love the most about this story are the lovely old English countryside atmosphere and the moment where the Doctor and Sarah Jane come upon a mummy inside the Pyramid and instantly turn around cause that moment gave rise to the wonderful "Fuck that shit" gif that I love so very very much. So, yeah, in essence, this is far below my personal Top 70 Classic Who episodes :P
I prefer both Brain of Morbius and State of Decay out of the more horror themed Tom Baker stories - and it's not even close. Talons of Weng Chiang as well (but understand why some may have issues with elements of this one) even though its not quite horror but it still feels like it belongs on this list. Generally though I feel like the fourth Dr with just Sarah Jane era is overrated - the series including Harry and the later companions are all better for me.
I'm there with you. I like this story but it does seem overrated to me. There are certainly stories I liked better. I think it has to do with the atmosphere. It's a little too grim for me to really enjoy, or at least to enjoy as much as others. TRIVIA: The manor house and grounds where the exteriors were filmed was owned by The Rolling Stones' Mick Jagger at the time.
This story is one of my favourites of the Tom Baker era with a brilliant villain with Suekh, I love Marcus Scarman as a henchman and the conflict with his brother and enjoy the scary gothic atmosphere and the high stakes of the story challenging the Doctor with a great performance from Tom Baker as Sutekh tortures him and makes him his vulnerable puppet. But Part Four is rather cluttered. I just made my own review of this story if anyone wants to check it out
I wished you liked this one a bit more. i loved this one as a kid and now. I really like the Mummy design because they didn't look like regular mummies. As for pacing, I think it's a product of the time. It's surprising how slow paced TV shows from the 70's look now. Even shows that were known for their action look so stagey and sedate now.
Once you've watched enough classic Who, you'll notice that poachers nearly always get killed. It's like how bad things always happen in quarries - it seems to be a trope that the writers have picked up and ran with, no matter who the writer actually is. I wanted to like Pyramids and, to a certain extent I did, I just didn't love it and, to be frank, the most interesting parts are whenever Sutekh and the Doctor are on screen. Everything else is just okay.
Tom liked the writer Robert Holmes and his way of writing for his Doctor. He was enjoying the story so much, except where stated in interviews with Tom when he talks about Paddy Russell and being a Mummy.
My favorite episode but, yeah, you really did bring up some powerful (and true) elements that hold it back and impair it! But, I gotta say, I love your reviews: agree with you or not ... you've got intellect, passion, and style! Thank you for a GREAT classic Who review!
For me this story is brilliant, my third favorite Tom Baker story behind Seeds Of Doom and City Of Death. There are two downfalls for me, the Mummy design and poacher. But other than that I truly enjoy it.
Linkara is in fact correct in this instance. Edit: Mask of Mandragora is a *very* good example of High Stakes Fourth Doctor. Deadly Assasin is another fantastic one, imo.
well... you waited
Glad I’m not the only one here today haha. I’ve seen pyramids of mars but tbh I dont remember it 🤦🏼♀️
Wife and daughter were watching it. I just happened to be walk in at the end to see...'Sutekh the Destroyer!!!' I was the only one who remembered him.
I hope Vera managed to watch The Legend of Ruby Sunday before they noticed the massive uptick in views and comments on this video lmao, that may well have given the game away otherwise!
'Pyramids Of Mars' is my favorite Fourth Doctor episode. 😀
Did you watch the feature that has Sutekh talk about his experiences on the set and what he's up to now? It's hilarious!
Neil before Sutekh!
Popo Bawa the rabbit is adorable.
"I bring Sutekh's gift of Jelly to all human life"
Part of me desperately wants to see Sutekh make an epic return on the current series. Another part is terrified of what Chris Chibnall might do to him. (No, I'm not scared of Chibnall turning Sutekh into a white guy, you anti-PC douchebags. Hell, he's ALREADY played by a white guy!)
Pyramids of Mars and The Talons Of Weng-Chiang are 4th Doctor most overrated stories.
Casual CraftMan nah not ToWC
I've been slowly making my way through Classic Who and have generally enjoyed most of it, but yeah, I didn't care for Pyramids of Mars or Talons of Weng-Chiang, either.
Talons is good. Jago & Litefoot are amazing. But a lot of the story is kinda really racist
Talons overrated? With a creepy villain, opium dens, magic shows, giant rats in the sewers, Leila "Eliza Dolittle', Jago and Litefoot, a Chinese Time Cabinet, and the Peking Homunculous (oink oink) overrated? Seriously, what more could you want?
anonagain Maybe having one of the main villains NOT be played in yellowface
Who is here after watcher the new s1 finaly after it was revealed sutekh is the main vilian for this season
Technically there is a reference to this serial in The Music episode where The Doctor explains if he doesn’t stop this thing in the past your present won’t exist
I heard the reason that Tom's performance was so serious in this one was because he really didn't get on with the director so his overall mood on set bled on screen. Which I think is kinda cool cos the performance benefits but kinda crappy at the same time. Surprised to see a more negative review of this story though, I really love it but that most likely is how great Sutehk (think that's right) is.
"You are nothing but an Ant" and all that stuff is chilling
Wingy Media like I've said, this story is my favorite take on the "two guardians" riddle. I know its a small moment, but I just love it
Wingy media I watch your channel and I am aware how much you love Pyramids of Mars, I love Pyramids of Mars too and I actually might love it just as much as Genesis of the Daleks. I remember what you said about Tom Baker's performance, you bring up good points similar to the Council of Geeks in this video. Also, I didn't know you watched Council of Geeks channel.
Wingy media. Shutek, or Set is entrenched in Egyptian mythology. He was the evil god, whom murdered his brother the benevolent and loved Osiris.
@@matthewscott3650 lt seems matt, that Tom Baker like many actors can be something of a prima dona.
@@silversurfer8212 well yes, of course he could
I've always laughed at the way the poacher was killed. It looks as though he's trapped between two matronly women and smothered by their enormous bosoms.
"Evil? Your evil is my good. I am Sutekh the Destroyer. Where I thread I leave nothing but dust and darkness. I find that GOOD!"
C B. Mague. It was a terrific series by the best of all the doctors, the great Tom Baker.
I also have a lifetime devotion to Egyptology.
Does this man know what he's talking about. Sure even in a modern a era a dip in the pace of the story will occur in order to build up a final climax. What went out was 25min episodes a week. People didnt have video streaming downloads to watch the resolution instantly. As for tom baker his first 3 and a half years his portral was dark and serious. You talk a load of crap and have the attention span of a goldfish. Dear oh dear.
Helllllo 2024~ Susan twist~ Sue tec~
The poacher had a point, the mummies hunting him down had a point. The whole point was to establish the shield that Sutekh put around, which the Doctor disables which informs Sutekh of 'an alien' interference; secondarily that extended chase scene shows that A: the mummies can't be disabled by bullets and B: are tireless in their pursuit and C: with the one that got caught in a bear trap aren't incredibly smart but smart enough. The poacher isn't 'meant to be deeply explored character' he's a plot contrivance like so many Red Shirts in Star Trek; he's fundamentally disposable just like Doctor Warlocke is....whose only point is to show that this isn't just some case of fraud but something murderously serious. You can't judge classic Who pacing and plot/character contrivances by modern day standards...you just can't, TV from this time period was very much about filling time and plot, character's deeply explored was a bonus...so insisting on it in many of these stories are a fool's errand. At the time these kind of things weren't that weird or odd, or even noticeably boring. The mummies in this story are like Romero zombies, they aren't fast they aren't really threatening until you realize that you're trapped inside with them and they don't respond to gun shots or punching....now if you just came off of the Day After Tomorrow hardcore parkour zombies you'd maybe go 'well this is boring and slow and dumb' but if you are doing that then you are missing the point. The mummies didn't have to be fast because the people are trapped in the shield bubble with them, there's no where to go; the mummies are an inevitable, unstoppable force that will eventually catch up to you because they don't get tired but you most certainly will and there's not lots of places to hide....added to that is the idea that the mummies are servicer robots, not really designed to be killers but rather to build the rocket, they just get co-opted into killing because that's all Sutekh has on hand (yes, the one that holds down his cushion). I mean furthermore on the point of the mummies, I doubt they were actually meant to be mummies (other than when we see Horace's servicer robot it looked like one....) but part of me likes to believe that it was Namin's idea to hide the robots as mummies....and truthfully if we'd gotten to the last episode and seen the guardian robot look mildly different than the mummy robot (maybe covered in some kind of armor or soemthing) that'd been awesome but we all know that design-wise the show probably couldn't afford making a special 'armor for the Martian robots'.
I rewatched it last year, and loved it. I see the flaws in it (the riddle tunnel at the end is just a wholesale rip off of Death to the Daleks; and there's some questioning as to why Sutkeh has to use the transporter...when he could destroy the world from Egypt WITH HIS MIND!), but that's just Doctor Who; I don't have a problem with that, just like I don't have a problem per se with things like the Ogri clearly being dragged along on tracks in Stones of Blood... I mean the Scarman brothers work, you feel gutted with what happens to him and his brother. Hell the giddy joy he has when he's in the TARDIS and his resolve to fix it when he sees 'alternative time' is great. Also the framing of the story of Sutekh and Horace, of brothers who fight and go to war with each other and the ultimate morality of 'sealing evil in a can' rather than destroying it adds layers to the character and the story....and no they don't get touched on but none they are there for the audience to muse upon on rewatch and yes lots of that is due to the excellent acting done by Tom Baker and Gabriel Woolf who is absolutely magnificent as Sutekh. But even the other actors get little bits and pieces to shine in (barring the few 'expendable characters').
Pyramids of Mars is not the best Doctor Who stories ever, it's not the best executed it's not the most original or necessarily thrilling. However Pyramids of Mars is ostensibly the most quintessentially Doctor Who serial of any Doctor Who serial, it is the most Doctor Who-iest story of Doctor Who, specifically classic era but ostensibly the entire series, ever. It is a space thing, with an alien attack on Earth; it's happening in history and deals with ancient Earth history, it's a story about gods and horrible villains there are run-arounds some of them less impressive than others, there's quick-witted traps and plans and counter-traps and there's the Doctor being the brilliant scientist adventurer that he is rather than a a magical wizard or demi-god....Although, just to be completionists some forty years ahead of time, they even fit in the angsting that the Doctor gets up to in the new series about being an nigh immortal god-like being that putzes about with mortals. Pyramids of Mars is distilled essence of Doctor Who...now it's not the best executed story but that in and of itself is what makes it even more 'Doctor Who' than some better executed stories like Caves of Andronzani or Daleks Masterplan....or Blink or Father's Day.
*Horus. Not Horace.
Quite right you are....it is Horus. The last episode is the weakest, because of the Exxilon plot....and the story does feel like it's just treading water because it needs to fill an additional twenty minutes when it's only got six left in it.
The Masked Ermine I liked and agreed with your comments. But, and please don't be upset, I had to laugh at Sutekh having a brother called Horace! 😄 The Egyptian chief god (sometimes in some parts) was Horus. Still, at least you didn't misquote the Doctor as I did! (Above). Aargh! Is there no way to edit our own comments once posted?
Well said. His comment about walking in eternity a classic. How far above humanity are the time lords? Millions of years perhaps. Now you face something still far more powerful than mere time lords who were as gods when they 1st gained power ovrr time. Now are you scared? That threat to eradicate all life no idle boast. Think to new who and the reality bomb. Child's play to Sutek but far too quick. Where's the suffering in turning to dust. He hates life. He seeks to destroy it but wants everyone to know it's coming, who's responsible and wants them to suffer before and during. Give a show only a book can deliver. The great Powers rose and were destroyed trying to end the war. Possibly the 1st great time war.if that means anything with time travel. The story is epic. Classic who operated on a budget today that might adjusted for inflation cover catering the show. They did pretty damn well. Remember UK in 70's hit hard with high inflation and energy shortages due to oil crisis and industrial actions on a semi regular basis.
Who came here after Sutech was revealed lol
I rewatched the Pyramids of Mars first but yes.
Expect a heap of new comments from 2024.
The mummies run REAL fast when nobody is looking.
Ah yes. The Jason Voorhees principle.
Lolololol the engagement spike for this episode is probably gonna be nice
What a Susan Tiwst
I low key like the look of the Mummy's - idk it's just something about the bad quality that makes it good
It's kind of the same appeal as early Cybermen, I thinkm or the raston warrior robot (seriously want to see one of those again.)
"Your evil is my good, i am Sutekh the destroyer, where i tread i leave nothing but dust and darkness.... I find that good"
5 years later your right
All I really remember was the disembodied floating mask in the TARDIS scaring the crap out of me when I was 7.
As the Jon Pertwee era was very James Bond many of the stories in the Tom Baker era veered very much toward the Hammer films and I think Pyramids of Mars did capture that Hammer feeling very well. Perhaps whether you or anyone rates this story very highly depends more on how much you love the Hammer films and can notice and appreciate the leanings toward that particular style and tone of story and not on a love of science fiction. I'm a huge Hammer fan and I do love this Dr Who story and The Talons of Weng Chiang. I remember being taken to an awesome Dr Who exhibition in Blackpool when I was a child. They had a life size animatronic giant rat from Weng Chiang complete with glowing red eyes. The funny thing was, it looked far better and more convincing and terrifying than the one fx technicians used in the actual episode. I have Pyramids of Mars and Weng Chiang taking pride of place in my Dr Who DVD collection. Two of my favourite stories from the Tom Baker era but I get that different people have different tastes. Many fans of classic Who love Ark in Space and that is actually one of my least favourites. Different strokes for different folks.
Please remember the time the series was made. Late 70’s. The mummies were intended to be, well a cross between Frankenstein’s Monster and a mummy. Heavy lifting work bots.
The monsters in movies and more so TV were very much on this level. Look at the near countless Hammer Film monsters. Thing about the Sleastak in Land of the Lost (The original TV series). Yes, a budget would help, but Dr. Who had a low budget even compared to its contemporaries.
Another aspect is for many Tom Baker was their introduction to this show. It is very sentimental to many.
I just had to watch it because of Legend of Ruby Sunday of course, and for the most part I enjoyed it. The lumbering mummies? Fairly common to have ridiculously slow monsters back in the day. Just about every American sci-fi series of the time, as well as Star Trek TOS, are guilty of that. It also made me sad that Elizabeth Sladen is no longer with us. Nothing against Mel, but I wish that Sarah Jane could’ve been there also, and had met Fifteen, especially since she was there when Four defeated Sutekh. That would’ve been some interesting banter between her and Fifteen.
Great! It's one of my favourite Doctor Who stories
We're all returning here in 2024.
I agree the pacing was a little off although it’s not the only time Doctor Who serials are stretched out a bit too long.
The Doctor is played well. Sarah-Jane was kinda right that The Doctor could resign from UNIT.
The effects are pretty good for the time the episodes were made.
Got to say I love this story and it's one of my favourite Classic Who stories. I've always heard complaints about the pacing and never understood it. It's more about giving the story a sense of tension and building up the stakes of the story. I actually found the mummies very scary as a child and I grew up with New Who. It's one of Tom Bakers best performances and puts him at his most vulnerable and Sutek is a brilliant villain with a lot of depth and backstory and interesting ideas and concepts. I do think part four is a let down though as it just turns into filler and an uninteresting run around.
A lot of stuff you watched as a kid isn't quite as epic as you remember.
Sad but true.
This serial was one of the first Doctor Who stories my mum showed me as a kid, and it seriously creeped me out (especially Scarman... he still creeps me out). To this day it holds as one of my favourite serials ever.
You're right about the poacher's side plot, but I find it easy to forgive, mostly because I prefer Classic Who to Modern Who by a long way.
Bernard Archard though, who played Scarman, was a sweetie to be with. Miss him terribly.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS!
No, YOU don't understand the implications.
@@thefandom6243 He waits no more.
My dad watched this classic with me, it's a testimony to this episode's quality that a man who has never seen an episode of Doctor who can watch 4 straight hours of an Egyptian God chasing around a time traveller wearing a scarf and still love it.
I think your review in the face of your age is both fair and reasonable. Some light on a couple of questions you asked, the whole Egypt/Aliens things and Egyptology as a whole was fairly new and this was one of the first (if not the first) filmed Sci-Fi element to take it on (novels and short stories had it beat by a few years). And as you stated the whole time paradox thing was really a novel idea here - though I'm not positive, I believe Moffet has stated this was one of his inspirations for his style.
Pacing is fine but only if you take into account everything else done by the BBC at the time. The 50 - 80 BBC remind me of Ents in LotR -'it's not worth doing unless it's takes a long time to do it". As I stated first off, I think your review is fair considering; It's hard to imagine a world where you "dial" a phone (with an actual rotary dial), a world where a single computer would fill a whole room and still not have the computing power in an iPhone and where the idea of digital effects were whatever the cartoonist could draw onto the film cels - oh and that the medium used was actually film. But it was and it had its limits and we worked within those limits.
By way of example - One of the best fantasy sci-fi effects of all time (until recently) was the flying dragon sequence in Dragonslayer - if was a blue screen (yes they used to be blue not green) model that was stop motion animated and used layered shot effects to give the illusion of a flying dragon that was breathing fire and interacting with the characters on the screen. With the limited technology available - it was still more believable than Smaug in "The Hobbit", IMO. You should check it out to use as a yard stick - that's a measuring tool we used back when we rode dinosaurs to school. ;)
Dare I say the quintessential 4th doctor episode
Top 5. I'd put City of Death and Genesis of the Daleks ahead of it.
Yet no actual comment on the story - all you've said is 'there wasn't enough money to do what they wanted' three different ways.
Pyramids of Merde.
GENESIS but top 5 yes
this is an Osirian! They are an immortal race! Far more powerful than the time lords, and took the form of their death god! A time the doctor has a RIGHT to be afraid this time. Bakers seriousness makes sense here. I enjoy it, not my favourite, but top 5!
Yeah I agree it is a little overhyped. But Sutec is a great one time villain and Tom's performance is excellent. Season 13 is also one of my favourite seasons of the show.
The poacher mattered in a couple of ways. And the thing is, once his part in the story was done, what to do with him? His purpose in the plot being to show that Scarman is both more and less than human. Plus he got one of the more memorable deaths in the story. And don't forget, Doctor Who of this era was made with children in mind. And a common childhood nightmare is being chased by something slow and relentless. While feeling like you're wading through water. Robert Holmes was great at finding these kind of situations. Or as he put it, "Lets scare the little buggers to death!"
Classic Who stories have episodes but when talking about the series, we had seasons of stories. Episodes of DW makes me think of the New Who, so in the spirit of a true Whovian, please use the correct terms.
I totally agree that Tom Baker and Gabriel Woolf (Sutekh) are the main attractions in a story which might otherwise have looked like a Hammer Horror spoof. But I would also give a big shout-out to Bernard Archard, whose portrayal of possessed Egyptologist Marcus Scarman really sets the tone early on. His cadaverous characterisation of calm, arrogant malice could so easily have overstepped and looked ridiculous, but he nailed it. Gabriel Woolf (and, yes, he did also voice the Beast in The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit) had to convey all that with his voice alone of course.
The mummies? Well, hm, I was 9 when I first watched it, and I can't really remember whether I thought they looked clunky or not. I was probably fairly uncritical. I DO remember thinking the single most unconvincing thing in the whole story was the death of the poacher! He clearly wasn't completely exhausted: he was still standing. So why did he let these glacially-slow f##kwits catch him? That was badly done, and really undermined the only slender point of the poacher-chasing scene: to establish the mummies' power. Well, yeah, maybe if the poacher had got HIS foot stuck in that mantrap!
Another questionable plot device was the reappearance of the puzzle-maze-thing. Actually it was quite good fun, but almost a carbon-copy of the Exxilon maze in Death to the Daleks, yet neither the Doctor nor Sarah Jane showed any sign of déjà-vu. And the idea that the Doctor had to work out the solution to the well-known truth-teller/liar conundrum was insulting.
Finally, I can't leave Pyramids without mentioning that famous line in the first few minutes of the story, which like Scarman and the manic organ music helps to build a sense of numinous malevolence. The Doctor's boggly eyes staring intensely into unknown depths, he says in a tone of unwonted gravity, almost tragically: "I'm a Timelord, Sarah. I walk in infinity!" And Sarah Jane, bless her, immediately deflates him. The point of course is to remind us how different, and how powerful, the Doctor really is and thereby to accentuate the sheer, ungovernable, godlike might of Sutekh.
Good review, even if you don't like as much as some. I watched it when it was first broadcast (and then my love of the story was enhance by the multiple re-readings of Target novel, which is certainly a superior way of appreciating the story than rewatching the episodes is today) as a 10 year old. At the time, it had more cultural relevance that would be appreciated now. The Hammer Horror films were often shown on BBC TV in Prime Time back then. The story played off that knowledge and would certainly have enhanced our appreciation, especially as it subverting a classic horror genre environment into a sci-fi one.
have you noticed how the production values go up when ever who went into the past, this was back in the days when the BBC had huge warehouses full of sets and costumes left over from their big expensive historic dramas which dr who took huge advantage of . one of the problems you run into with old who is that it wasn't taken seriously by a lot of people working on it hence the mummies
This is arguably still true in the modern show!
Hot Take - Pyramids of Mars is the most overrated story in Classic Who. Enjoyed the first part of the finale though
Bit late to the party here, and I'm sure you've gotten loads of comments like this but I thought I could add something new. This is the most morbid Classic Doctor Who story for me and the only good example of a trope in this show that I really don't like; that being, everyone dies except the Doctor and the companion. The characters in the story are caught and killed one by one and I think this was the point of the poacher. He had nothing to do with the plot and was just an innocent bystander but nevertheless, no one who got stuck in Sutehk's shield (barring the usual suspects) made it out alive. Sutekh invades this ordinary setting and I think the reason he is so effective is seen through the death of the poacher: the killing in this story is random and impersonal.
Gabriel Woolf was the voice of Sutekh
as an RPG player..... I GM'ed a few spin off games of this for the Dr Who RPG by (FASA) it was fun.
i recall why I unsubbed from this crappy channel....
I'm not sure if you've seen it or if you are planning to ever review it, but Terror of the Zygons is probably my favorite Classic story I've seen so far. (I'm still watching the middle of 4th doctor though) Seriously, I can't recommend it enough.
It’s David Tennant favourite too
Yeah it was the same voice as the Beast in Impossible Planet.
That Linkara reference just made me love you even more.
Also, this story is my favorite take on the "two guardians" riddle
I'd pay to watch Osirians vs Daleks where Sutek turns evil.
Sutek is evil he's a death god for crying out loud! But yes, the Daleks against the Osirians would be interesting.
Personally it's my favorite story out of classic and new who. I think it's well paced (in my opinion), has great mood and atmosphere, and a great doctor as Tom Bakers always is. Is it perfect? No but I like very much.
I just finished watching Pyramids of Mars. The special effects were whack, but I needed to know who Sutekh was. I can’t wait for the season finale (Disney+ 2024 version)😊 #whovianforlife
I love this story and to an extent, I see where you're coming from but I love the mummy design as there is something off about them from the start you can tell they're not just mummys and I think a more realistic take just wouldn't work. Although the poacher has possibly too much screen time as well, his death is terrifying and shows the true power of the mummys showing they are not just cannon fodder compared to sutek.
Noice.
You totally miss the point with the mummies, they are very basic robots, they can’t do much more than follow orders. Look at the animal trap scene. They are lumbering objects. The mummies chase Ernie down because he gets tired, a confined space with one untiring relentless chaser and a faster pray. There is also the poacher becoming the prey.
The Doctor is at his most alien here from the walking in eternity to the showing of alternative Earth. I rewatched this story today and I only just noticed the discarding of the body of Lawrence Scarman by The Doctor. The Doctor basically rolls the inconvenient body out of the way. It’s a mere moment but it is so not the warm and cosy Doctor we are used to.
I’d finally like to remind you that Mummy On A Train style effects hadn’t been dreamed of in 1975 and if New Who had 5% of the writing talent of classic Who then it wouldn’t be the pile of steaming garbage that it is.
I love Seeds of Doom.
For me my problems lie with the design of the mummies and the ending, which is a bit too cheesy and arch, even for Classic Who. Surprisingly I found the episode to be devoid of monotony and pretty fun. I think Tom Baker’s performance probably elevated this story and I can see why people point to that as the reason why this story is a masterpiece.
Click here if you are watching this in 2024 after Suthek has been reintroduced to Doctor Who
Well, time to rewatch this heh heh!
HEEEEE’S BACK!!!
I've always had a mixed response to Pyramids of Mars. Personally, I find it fairly mediocre and even out of place for the Tom Baker run. At the same time, I think the latter part is why it rates so highly on so many lists, because Tom Baker's Doctor is never so affected by and terrified of an opponent (and because Sutekh isn't an overblown enemy.)
Yeah I'm with you on the overhype. It's got some strong elements but some of the writing is a bit iffy in places and wouldn't rank high on my personal list (give me City of Death any day). Also I have to wonder if Sutekh was this much of a threat why didn't the Doc consider getting the Time Lords for back-up if they're willing to interfere in potential dangerous affairs during this era.
Speaking of Tom Baker Who the Twitch marathon has been a good opportunity to fill in the remaining gaps in his era for me. Although the timing has meant I've been seeing some of the stories on Dailymotion just so I don't fall behind. ANOTHER MISTAKE STYRE.
LOOK, NO MEMES
The SHOCK MIGHT KILL YOU
0:00-0:03
Best
Moment
Ever
On the whole Aliens in Egyptian Mythology, the idea existed for a while but this is one of the firsts to really do it and be popular.
Also interesting to note, this story is one of the few classic era stories to be directed by a woman. Paddy Russell directed I think four stories from 1966-1977
Paddy Russell: Paddy Kingsland was a composer for the show. He was also male.
Andrew Bowman See this is what I get for listening to the logopolis soundtrack
Easy mistake to make!
Love the Linkara reference at the beginning. Nice to meet another fan!
Mummies being really slow but somehow catching up with people is standard, like in Hammer Horror etc. Even some Frankenstein's monsters. Mohamed Ali always used to do a bit about that.
Mummies lumbering around was a 1960's trope left over from the old Mummy movies. Also the scare was this slow inexorable thing coming after you, but also it ate up time which was key to classic Who. See Lost in Space for a slow paced Mummy chase. Old Dr Who tended to be so, so, so slow.
It's all relative. It was one of the better of old WHO.
Got to disagree when you have a Bob Holmes script one of his better scripts, you cant go wrong with much. Same with a lot of the scripts from Terrance Dicks. But Doctor Who is subjective, and to be fair to find an American willing to make a video on Classic Who instead of only ever talking about New Who is refreshing. But I think the big thing at least for me was I was raised on Classic Who, Bob Holmes being one of my all time favourite Who writers who wrote stories mostly based on a lot of British life and attitudes. As a bit general info The Sun Makers was written by Holmes after receiving a tax bill, love that story. I love this story but its interesting to hear your take on this classic story, but I vehemently disagree with your opinion. I'm a fan of New Who as well I just dont agree with your mixed feelings on this.
I have done vids on classic Who. Well, @ least one......
And that's fair. We don't have to agree.
This episode fit for the style of television in the 70's. So for its time period it was good. The poacher was there to establish the barrier around the area. You totally missed the guy who played Marcus His performance was awesome. Yeah, the mummies looked stupid but the episode is still one of my favorite episodes.
Please review Hand of Fear. Eldrad Must Live!
God bless your impatient patron … a treat! It's flawed and perhaps a little over-hyped, but this is the story that unforgettably terrified and enthralled me on first broadcast as a four year old and still thrills me to this day. Really enjoyed hearing your thoughts. thankyou :)
Really random and I'm not mad but the artwork used for this video thumbnail is mine that I made way back in 2012. Quite surreal to come across it again.
I do say this story without Harry was a shame in billions, of ways but the powers that be decided to remove him from the TARDIS crew.
Given that Harry being around meant Sarah Jane was consistently handled worse, I have no issue with this change.
Oh, hey, look! It's that Doctor Who story Stargate ripped off!
oh someone else notices the similarity too. I loved studying ancient egypt in school (show me anyone over the age of 30 who didnt - cant speak for the young ones!!!) And saw it straight away. I actually enjoyed this story, while its not in my top ten (and how do you rank a performance that went for 41 STORIES (times 4-6 episodes per stories) it is still quite high up there
I watched this for the first time last year. I couldn't believe the tension in this story was still so powerful since its 40 years old. Amazing. but the mummies are good for a laugh.
I love this one. Not my favorite but quite high up my list.
Ancient Egypt! (cue Imperial March)...
It's worth pointing out that this predates Stargate by 20 years.
Compare this with something like The Seeds of Doom, which has much better pacing, story and characters as well as everything good about The Pyramids of Mars: Tom Baker, who gave a similar performance in The Seeds of Doom to this one, and a fantastic villain.
I'd like to put in a vote for a season 16 Key of Time story line. I have fond memories of that one.
Very underrated season. The final two stories are a bit pants but the Pirate-Stones-Androids triple whammy is amazing.
Ben W I remember being very shook by the whole Pirate Planet concept. And -no spoilers- the exit of one of the companions in that story arc.
I'll get to that eventually. It was the first 4th Doctor set that I bought.
which one? Though they are 6 seperate stories, they are one big overarching stories, with one of the coolest lines in all of classic who!
hey
I saw this ep on youtube a few years ago, first time since childhood, and thought it stood up pretty well. It's on my DVD wishlist as a result.
It's also the episode with my favourite Sarah Jane costume.
We are the ones who waited.
In my opinion city of death is the best episode
I'm on this Doctor who fan site and newcomers to Doctor Who would ask were should they start with this series, and the old fans would always say to start at the very beginning with AN UNEARTHLY CHILD, and i would saw, "Are you insane!" That's like telling someone to watch Star wars in numerical order, It's a BAD idea!
It happens. It's hard for somebody who's deep into a fandom to think about how it looks to somebody who's totally new to it.
YES! They forget just how weird this show actually is!
You start a newcomer with Blink!
Then after they start questioning their own sexuality over David Tennant you move on to the other Doctors and then the classic series.
Once their hooked on Who you start them on the classic series with the INVASION OF TIME! It's just like a Stephen Moffat show! The pass is surprisingly quick and everything is in it! The Sontarans! The Matrix! The Doctor becomes lord President of the Time Lords! It's awesome!
im not sure if u have done this already but since chris chibnall has taken over doctor who would u be open for doing a top ten for torchwood or even a Sarah Jane one. I only ask cause its something that u not really touched on
The problem with both of those is it would require me revisiting those series and... I don’t really want to. Not that I seriously disliked either one but with only a handful of exceptions both were things I watched and never needed to see again. That’s the sort of project it’s hard for me to justify the time needed to do it right.
completely understandable :)
What does Chibnall have to do with The Sarah Jane Adventures
cause i thought of torchwood since its a spin off so sarah jane came to mind as well
Venemofthe888 but the question is framed around Chris Chibnall
Here's the mini review I did of the story (trying not to spoil anything):
This one was a rewatch for me; in fact this was the first story of classic Who I ever watched. When I first saw it, I thought it dragged on for too long, and found Tom Baker’s performance to be lacklustre. So, now that I’ve seen it again, are my thoughts the same? I think perhaps that I was simply not used to the style of these stories at that point in time, because I now find Tom’s performance to be just as good as it usually is, and while the story did drag for a little bit, it was nothing too serious. However, I do have other complaints. The design of the mummy robots was a mite stupid, the Mars sets were unimaginative, the voice of the service robot in the pyramid was awful, there are two scenes dedicated to the Doctor opening the same door, and the story concludes far too quickly with a stunningly weak close for Sutekh’s character. I did like a lot about it though. The story was intelligent and interesting, and Elisabeth Sladen was on fine form, proving that Sarah Jane Smith is a badass who cannot be messed with. The supporting cast performed fairly well too. But of course I’ve saved the best ‘til last. Sutekh is an absolutely marvellous villain. Everything about him, from his design to his voice, to his powers, is perfection. He’s one of the most intimidating threats Doctor Who has ever produced, and yet all he does is sit in a chair and issue commands. But anyone who can bring the Doctor to his knees with a single thought is a worthy villain in my opinion. The one problem with Sutekh is that he looks awful without his helmet. Pyramids of Mars is certainly a great story, but not the flawless masterpiece people seem determined to make it out to be. 8.5/10
We noticed the double door opening sequence in our re-watch and can only chalk it up to them re-filming the scene for some reason and continuity department flubbing it.... We watched the movie cut of the story though, but I don't think that sequence was timed for a 'cliffhanger' where they may have re-filmed the sequence to bridge the two episodes (at the beginning of next weeks episode)....so not sure what happened there.
The whole set-piece on Mars is a retread of Death to the Daleks (to the extent that Sarah Jane calls out the whole thing in the episode 'this reminds me of the City of the Exxilons') and the fourth episode (final quarter) is the weakest part of it for me. Though I think the end for Sutekh is equal parts clever and fitting...with an omnipotent force defeated by a fairly simple trap that preyed on its hubris and lust for destruction....
That is a good point. Though obviously I haven't watched it in a while. I hate to plug things, but if you want to hear any more of my thoughts, I have a review blog here: verdes-random-reviews.tumblr.com/ in which I've reviewed every story from Season 12-Season 17 of Classic Who, as well as a few books. I'm currently making my way through Season 18, which will probably be my next review.
go read Eygptian mythology, he was was called the jackle god for a reason, he was SUPPOSED to look like that!
julie everett Set wasn’t the jackal god, no one knows exactly what animal Set’s head was, the jackal god is Anubis. But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying the mask was poorly made.
@@karkatvantas9557 ok I need to go check my mythology again, and fair enough!
With slow pacing the difference is all in the first few minutes. If there’s a compelling hook established early on the details don’t feel like fluff. If it fails or there’s some kind of disconnect it will be a slog.
I agree partly because I've always felt that this story was a bit overrated. However I think you're really not giving it its due for the effects - They're REALLY GOOD for the TIME! It's the Mid 1970s! NOT 1988 Star Trek Next Gen or 1995 {Buffy/Stargate}!
They didn't have the massive budget that the first season of Battlestar Galactica got {and even that was a couple years later!}.
And frankly this came out in the same Dr Who era as The Ark in Space with its bubblewrap cocoons AND The Invisible Enemy with its laughable monster!
Also - Those mummies looked a heck of a lot better BEFORE Brendan Fraser's The Mummy came out in 1999!
Pyramids of Mars was slow, it did go round in circles a couple of times to pad out the story BUT it's still a d@mn good story and though not amongst the best of Tom Baker's run by a long shot it's certainly above the average.
Personally I have an extremely unpopular opinion of this story cause I find Sutekh to be overly pompous and almost cartoonish in his speech patterns :P That's just the vibe that I get from him. The thing that I love the most about this story are the lovely old English countryside atmosphere and the moment where the Doctor and Sarah Jane come upon a mummy inside the Pyramid and instantly turn around cause that moment gave rise to the wonderful "Fuck that shit" gif that I love so very very much. So, yeah, in essence, this is far below my personal Top 70 Classic Who episodes :P
I prefer both Brain of Morbius and State of Decay out of the more horror themed Tom Baker stories - and it's not even close.
Talons of Weng Chiang as well (but understand why some may have issues with elements of this one) even though its not quite horror but it still feels like it belongs on this list.
Generally though I feel like the fourth Dr with just Sarah Jane era is overrated - the series including Harry and the later companions are all better for me.
I'm there with you. I like this story but it does seem overrated to me. There are certainly stories I liked better. I think it has to do with the atmosphere. It's a little too grim for me to really enjoy, or at least to enjoy as much as others.
TRIVIA: The manor house and grounds where the exteriors were filmed was owned by The Rolling Stones' Mick Jagger at the time.
Revisiting this video after watching Sutekh’s return to modern Who.
This story is one of my favourites of the Tom Baker era with a brilliant villain with Suekh, I love Marcus Scarman as a henchman and the conflict with his brother and enjoy the scary gothic atmosphere and the high stakes of the story challenging the Doctor with a great performance from Tom Baker as Sutekh tortures him and makes him his vulnerable puppet. But Part Four is rather cluttered. I just made my own review of this story if anyone wants to check it out
I wished you liked this one a bit more. i loved this one as a kid and now. I really like the Mummy design because they didn't look like regular mummies. As for pacing, I think it's a product of the time. It's surprising how slow paced TV shows from the 70's look now. Even shows that were known for their action look so stagey and sedate now.
Once you've watched enough classic Who, you'll notice that poachers nearly always get killed. It's like how bad things always happen in quarries - it seems to be a trope that the writers have picked up and ran with, no matter who the writer actually is. I wanted to like Pyramids and, to a certain extent I did, I just didn't love it and, to be frank, the most interesting parts are whenever Sutekh and the Doctor are on screen. Everything else is just okay.
Tom liked the writer Robert Holmes and his way of writing for his Doctor. He was enjoying the story so much, except where stated in interviews with Tom when he talks about Paddy Russell and being a Mummy.
My favorite episode but, yeah, you really did bring up some powerful (and true) elements that hold it back and impair it! But, I gotta say, I love your reviews: agree with you or not ... you've got intellect, passion, and style! Thank you for a GREAT classic Who review!
For me this story is brilliant, my third favorite Tom Baker story behind Seeds Of Doom and City Of Death. There are two downfalls for me, the Mummy design and poacher. But other than that I truly enjoy it.
"Eternity!" NOT infinity! (See comment below). Sorry! I'm such a klutz.
Linkara is in fact correct in this instance.
Edit: Mask of Mandragora is a *very* good example of High Stakes Fourth Doctor. Deadly Assasin is another fantastic one, imo.