Nyssa could of been one of the best companions of all time... but they had 3 companions and she was put on the back burner. Remember the Master stole her fathers body, and they ran into the Master more than a few times. But they don’t have any moments of Nyssa having to come to terms or deal with the Master looking like her father. And she was super smart, from a different planet where humans society was different than ours. And they had her do nothing most stories she was in.. criminal!
@@neilmcdonald8355 Sara Kingdom IS officially considered a companion...yet, oddly, Bret Vyon ISN'T...which I find odd as both characters served essentially the same purpose within the same story with both dying during it. They even work for the same agency AND are siblings! Bret Vyon starts "Dalek's Masterplan" as the Space Security Agent helping The Doctor, then is killed by his sister, Sara Kingdom, as she is convinced that he is a traitor, she then learns otherwise and then continues the story in her brother's place as the Space Security Agent helping The Doctor...then is aged to death by the Time Distructer at the story's conclusion. So why SHE is considered a companion when Bret Vyon isn't just really makes no sense to me...as far as I am concerned, if Sara Kingdom is a companion then so is Bret Vyon and so you get THREE companion deaths IN THE SAME STORY...first Katarina, then Bret Vyon and then finally Sara Kingdom...damn did that story have a body count! 😶😮😬😵
I think Adric's death is still shocking today. Even though we've had characters part under tragic circumstances, we've yet to have a "real" death of a companion in New Who.
The 3rd Doctor never met the Cybermen on TV except for the Five Doctors special...those Cybermen scenes were written specifically for Jon Pertwee, as a remedy for him never meeting with them during his run. They’ve met numerous times in books and comics though.
Great review! :) I was there back in 1982, and yes the Cybermen reveal was a huge surprise for all who watched it on original transmission. One of the final times that such a reveal was kept so completely under wraps, and the cliff-hanger was all the better for it - a big subject for discussion in the school playground the following day! (And yes I too thought "Silurians" at the time.) As for your query about previous companions dying, yes Katarina and Sara Kingdom both perished in the 12 part epic 1966 story "The Dalek Master Plan", but neither had been around for many episodes and were essentially very temporary TARDIS travellers. (Think Adam Mitchell, or perhaps Jack Harkness or Mickey Smith in terms of their lengths of time actually travelling in the TARDIS.) So I think we can safely say Adric was the only "fully established" longer standing companion to have been "killed off", at least up to that point in the show. :) Hope that helps.
I was there in '82 too - is this our Woodstock? ;-) The Cybermen and Adric's death were definitely a big surprise for me. I kept thinking that they were going to find a way out of it, The Doctor will save him....he always does and Adric won't die. Then The Doctor didn't and Adric did. I felt the lack of music at the end enhanced things. It showed that Adric really was gone. I get the Council's feeling's about it but he's looking at it from a point of view of now, where it's been overused and cliched, instead of then when it wasn't so much.
Robert Gairey This was a few years before I started watching...I started up with Davison’s penultimate story, where Turlough leaves and Peri joins up with him (I want to say Planet of Fire, but not 100% sure about that being the correct title) Tho I have watched most of classic who, including this story...and despite knowing what happened at the end...I was on the edge of my seat wondering how it got to that point...
The shattered, disbelieving look on Davison's face when the Doctor realises Adric is dead is one of the best bits of acting in the show's history. It's a heart breaking moment. Peter Davison is seriously underrated in this role.
Fun fact: the reason Jon Pertwee never had a Cybermen story is that Terrence Dicks, the script editor at the time, didn't like them. He felt we'd seen enough of them in Troughton's era.
To be fair, we kinda did get a shitload of them in Troughtons era. Twice a season even! They needed a rest but a story halfway through Pertwee's run would have been nice
Which is why Terrance had them being sliced up by the Raston Warrior Robot in 'The Five Doctors'. I also think another reason why we never had Cybermen for the Pertwee era was because Pertwee also hated them and the Daleks because he liked to get a facial and emotional reaction from his villains and he couldn't do that with Daleks and Cybermen.
I like the Fifth Doctor because he feels like one of the most human Doctors. He seems a bit vulnerable and emotional, and he's always being pushed into terrible situations, like in Earthshock and The Caves of Androzani. He feels really heroic for always pushing through.
Episode 1 of Earthshock is, in my humble (?) opinion, probably the single creepiest episode Classic Who ever did. I suppose Davison works better for me since he was my second Doctor. I first tuned in to see Tom Baker in the early 80s on PBS, and the Davison episodes began airing while he was still the current Doctor. Once they ran out of those, they flipped back to Pertwee and Baker again. Lacking a VCR, I put a tape recorder next to the TV and recorded the soundtracks of the episodes. There was an audible cheer from my little sister when Tom Baker appeared on screen again!
Much as I saw Earthgshock when it was broadcast first time around I was only aged, horrible 13 and stuck in dreaded school when this story was made JNT made every effort to keep the Cybermens return a surprise and when the Cybermen appeared in the climax of episode 1 it was a surprise and I got goosebumps.
The fifth doctor tends to get flustered very easily when under pressure, which can lead to him acting rashly and can also account for him being bad tempered. His mood changes depending on how much pressure he's under, that accounts for the mood swings, or at least that's how I like to see it.
I'm biased, Peter Davison is MY Doctor. I recognise that his run isn't perfect, but his run was what made me fall in love with Doctor Who, and I've never understood why Tom Baker didn't connect with me, but I still, to this day, I remember how much watching "Castrovalva" for the first time touched me as a third grader and how it changed my life, because that was the moment I became a Whovian. I've always felt the biggest flaw with Davison's tenure is Eric Saward, who was the script editor for 95% of his tenure, and also the writer of this story. I have never felt like Saward ever really "wanted" to write Doctor Who, i always felt like he wanted to write gritty, hard-boiled mercenary stories, because those elements are constants in the stories of his tenure, and the show suffered for that, IMO. With the exception of the moon boots, this is my favourite Cybermen design, MUCH superior to either modern design we've gotten (not counting the original version redesign from series 10).
Peter Davison reportedly wanted to play the part older, but was never really allowed to do it. Once nice moment, though, was how he reacted to Susan in The Five Doctors, the fondness with which he looks at her.
Have to start with my bias - Davison is my Doctor. I properly started watching the show with Castrovalva. What follows is my defence of my Doctor. (1) Let’s not beat around the bush. Davison did not have the benefit of having good writing. That’s not unique to him. McCoy and Colin Baker can both make the same complaint, perhaps even more so, but it’s there. He starts with an arm tied behind his back by the writing. (2) The violence comment surprises me - Colin Baker’s Doctor (whom I also love, so you should be aware that my judgment is questionable) has that reputation more than Peter. I think it’s mostly about the time when they were made. (3) Davison was following Tom Baker. I know we all know that. But the result is that he probably had the hardest job of any new Doctor since Troughton and probably since then. Smith following Tennant might be comparable, but not everyone loved 10. EVERYONE loved Tom, and rightly so. The idea of the Fifth Doctor was to make him more vulnerable and flawed. Moffat has 10 say in Time Crash that the 5 is when the Doctor no longer felt the need to put on act - the idea being the vulnerability we see in 5 (and recently in 13) is always there, the others just made more of an effort to hide it. (4) Reading and watching all the behind the scenes stuff you get the idea that Davison understood the character better than his Producer and writers. Davison wanted him to be all about simple, even low-tech solutions to complex technological problems and JNT didn’t really agree. I think Peter was spot on - foiling an alien invasion with an apple and a yo-yo is exactly who the Doctor is. (5) The multiple companions thing is an issue, but also think about this. He inherited all 3 from his predecessor. Yes, the show knew Tom was leaving, but back then they didn’t plan ahead very much so there was likely little or no thought about how Tegan, Nyssa and Africa would play with 5’s personality. Adric seems especially pointless - his youth and naivety contrasts with 4 but there’s no space there with 5. Peter lobbied hard not to kill Adric as some have claimed, but to keep Nyssa as he felt her character worked best with his Doctor. It’s clear from what’s been said since that Peter wasn’t necessarily Matthew Waterhouse’s biggest fan, but he regrets agreeing to Adric’s death. (6) After all that apologising, let’s talk about what I love about 5. Lots of people talk about 5 being the most human of the doctors. That’s partly about being flawed, but his compassion really comes across, perhaps more so than any Doctor until Tennant. He seems more willing than most of the doctors to express what he is feeling. I always especially love when 5 is disappointed - his whole being seems to collapse a little. There may be something to this idea, too. Most of the previous doctors essentially just played themselves, Peter is playing a character. But he does so without looking like he’s acting. Not sure I’ve expressed what I wanted to here. For what it’s worth, I’d look to Caves of Androzani - if nothing else you get a feel for how great his three seasons could have been if the writing had been better.
Peter is my favorite Doctor. You make great points in your defense. Part of Peter’s challenge was to be frustrated at being an old man in a young man’s body- that his youth didn’t command the respect and naturally grant him authority. I like the three companion concept which also played into the 20th anniversary feel, harkening back to the start of the show. Writers played the characters off of each other- but not enough as they could have. Peter gave a great performance that touched on some of the behaviors of previous Doctors. He was saddled with Baker’s companions as well as Baker’s Master. Turlough worked way better than Adric against Peter. Also, Peter was not allowed to be sexual like the younger Doctors of today. And his previous role was a highly sexual character. Oh the fun that could’ve been in the writing!
It's interesting you mention Davison's doctor seeming bratty because that might actually set you in good stead for his Big Finish stories. His voice sounds noticeably older, which I find a little distracting, but works better for moments where the Doctor is angry or cranky (there are some moments where it works to really fantastic effect in Spare Parts).
One big thing about the Cybermen reveal was that, not only was it the first time they'd been seen in 6-7 years, but that story was actually considered by the fans to have been very lackluster (Producer Philip Hinchliffe himself referring to it as "the hangover after the party of Genesis of the Daleks"), and that itself was 6-7 years after the preceding one. So higher-tech looking Cybermen introduced at the end of a near-horror based Part 1 was a massive deal, as it seemed that viewers were finally seeing a good cyberman story for the first time in well over a decade. On that note, you really should check out "Putting the Shock in Earthshock", the special that came with the DVD. It's easily one of my favorite Classic-Who specials. It actually, among other things, shows how smart and into Doctor Who young Gatiss and Moffat were (the latter actually making the Wesley Crusher comparison). They also explain how the visible human jaw was intentionally put in to remind the audience that it's essentially a sentient robotic corpse.
My all time favorite Cyberman design. I always liked the clear chin on the head piece. As originally conceived, these suits were survival gear for a dying race, and showing the moving chin of the person inside was a great reminder of that.
That's why I really like the Mondasian Cybermen from the Tenth Planet, they have human hands and at certain points, if you like closely you can actually see their eyes behind the black fabric.
I liked Adric. I can see why people find him annoying but that's because he was meant to be annoying. He and the Doctor were written to be at odds, especially where mathematics are concerned. The Doctor has never been comfortable with the idea that others might be smarter than him.
My brother, who's not a massive Doctor Who fan, but still enjoy watching it, actually really likes what he's seen of Adric (personally, I think he's ok, but not a fav companion). I think it's at least partly a matter of relatability in this case. Like, I think my brother (whether consciously or not) see somewhat of his younger self in Adric, which allows him to connect more strongly with the character.
I actually prefer Adric to some of Davison's other companions - like Turlough and Tegan. I do see why people don't care for him though. And I agree that 3 companions is too many though. Earthshock wasn't the only episode with this trio that tended to shove one of them off to the side for the episode.
Early '80s Who - seasons 18 to 20 at least - were like the '60s era of the show in that pretty much every story led directly on from the previous one. It's a thing that i really like about both of those periods of the show, but i think it maybe causes a disconnect for people who dip in and out of random stories. Or at least, something's lost that way. The Fifth Doctor's moods probably make more sense in context, as the TARDIS crew often start each story affected by or dealing with consequences from the last one. As for the story: i'm a fan of the Davison era, but maybe a bit out of step with others in that 'Earthshock' has never really been up there as a favourite of mine. I mean, it's fine, and it's a well-directed action story if that's your bag but i'm more an 'Enlightenment' kind of guy. I do like the fact that Adric is holding his belt as a sort of comforter just before the freighter explodes, as the belt was given to him by his brother Varsh in 'Full Circle' just before he died. Those are the kind of continuity references i like: subtle ones that are fun if you pick up on them, but you don't lose anything if you don't.
I'd forgotten about that bit with the belt! Great stuff. Enlightenment is class... bonkers in just the right amounts and a nice conclusion to the Guardians trilogy.
Still one of my favourite Cyberman and Doctor Who stories. The confrontation between the Cyber-leader and the Doctor is especially great. “Small beautiful things is what life is all about”
I like Davison: my friend and I watched the original transition from Tom Baker to Davison, and we both predicted that anyone following Baker was going to have an impossible task. For the change, I think they went the best way, and always felt that Doctor Number 5 was the most vulnerable and the most prone to making mistakes with consequences. So I liked a lot of the Doctor Number 5 stories, and always felt for Davison because of the supremely difficult task of taking up where Baker left off. I had an inbuilt sympathy for his situation as an actor and for the character treatment. He was, I feel, not ever given the space and time by the production and the reception to be what he could have been with the character, but he made the next transition much easier (though I never liked Number 6 and stopped watching with him).
I seem to remember being told a long time ago, that Davison's decision to leave, was driven a lot by his displeasure at the way the scripts were not of the quality he felt was good enough, and I seem to remember he left All Creatures Great and Small for a while, for the same reason. Colin Baker was even harder done by, especially as it is clear Eric Saward didn't agree with him being the Doctor, but wouldn't stand down as script editor. There are some good bits in Colin Baker's time, but they are sparse. I always give credit to the fact that Colin Baker always gave really good performances, and so glad that Big Finish were able to give his character the redemption it needed. On TV they never gave him the chance to take the character where he felt it should go, finally giving us stories where his Doctor is much more sympathetic, while still keeping that sarcasm, the need for correct grammar and just about the right level of overbearing pomposity. Still prefer Davison's character, but I've really warmed up to Colin Baker.
@@bruceparker1164 Thanks for that very interesting information. Now I want to go back to Colin Baker's episodes and give him a fairer shake than I did back in the day.
I have a real soft spot for this story. I saw this one as a kid (almost 14 at the time) and the BBC were good at secrets. The cyber men were a big reveal and so was Adric's death. I was opened mouthed so the "moment of silence" ending was very powerful at the time. It was the 1st companion to die in my lifetime. The previous two were during the 1st doctor's time. Overall a cracking episode for me. I do think you should visit ENLIGHTENMENT which is one of the best Dr Who's from Davison's era. Very bizarre but very interesting.
Amazing episode. The Cybermen are so cool, and David Banks as the Cyber Leader just rules it. I dislike Adric alot however the ending gets me everytime. Fantastic writing and the no music over the closing credits? Wow.
From what I am hearing about Peter Davison's 5 is that he has the same problem as Jodie Whittaker's 13. Funny 13 is the fifth Doctor in NuWho (Excluding John Hurt and that David Tennant regenerated twice).
I mean, if you’re looking for a story to connect with Davison, you can’t go wrong with Caves of Androzani. But I think you’ve already seen that? My favorite Doctor is Davison though so I have to bring it up.
Eric Saward's influence? During his tenure as script-editor there were several dark, often bleak storylines commissioned from other writers (Resurrection of the Daleks, Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos) and those he penned himself (Earthshock, Attack of the Cybermen, Revelation of the Daleks). Even comparatively less heavy fare like Terminus and The Visitation were about leprosy, plague and arson!
True. But they were still the two shooty Doctors till Tennant came along. Check out TB in Seeds of Doom where the Doctor is pointing a gun at Scorby. While his hand is around the grip/handle, his finger is never in the trigger area. TB said at the time children should never see the Doctor willing to fire a gun.
Similarly to you with 13, i felt no connection to 5. Then I watched Caves of Androzani, which by far is my favorite Davison performance, and in that moment at the end of episode 3, he finally clicked with me.
He IS a bit off but I'm glad after two arrogant charisma bombs like 3 and 4 to have someone who's awkward and unsure at times. I also love the tension in the TARDIS with very real feeling people like Adric and Tegan who in real life would have disagreements sometimes.
Katrina from the Mythmakers (Trojan Handmaiden) as well as Sarah Kingdom (future Security/police/agent) died... its debated if they "count" as companions. If the definition goes: Traveled in the Tardis at least once and was in more than 2 stories (not episodes in ONE story), then Katrina IS and Sarah is NOT a companion. But Sarah did way more than Katrina and played a far larger role so... Also that definition would make Adam (New Who season 1) a companion and Liz Shaw (Third Doctor season 1 ... or season 7 overall) a non-companion... and yeah... nope :D On another note: This episodes main highlight is with out a doubt the directing. Its filmed very much like an action movie. As much as was possible considering budget and equipment. The story is solid as well. But better (or just as good) 5th Doctor stories are out there imo. -Kinda and Snakedance (sort of part of the same story) -Enlightenment (I just love this one... its properly insane and odd) -Caves of A. obviously... no need for explaining that one :D -Resurrection of the Daleks (jesus... dark as F!) -Mawdryn Undead (redundant title much redundant?) -Four to Doomsday (mixed bag... but wacky) -Arc of Infinity (not really that great of a story... but Peter does a good Omega for me. Really sells the "tragic" villain part. Hes not an asshole... he is desperate, alone and mad) and 5 Doctors I suppose... though do we count that one as a 5th Doctor story? ;)
For me the definition has to be travelled in the TARDIS at least once inbetween those two stories, i.e. the journey part between the two locations/times. Which is why Adam counts as a companion and the Brigadier doesn't. I class the Brigadier as a recurring acquaintance. I can't remember Liz Shaw's episodes well enough to comment on those. It has to be a pretty strict rule or you can start counting Daleks, The Master and various other characters as companions too.
@@lwaves Obviously they have to be on the Doctors side ;) Liz never traveled in the Tardis as it was broken during her season, the Brig traveled in the Tardis a few times with both 3 and 5, the Master or more specifically Missy was pretty much a companion of sorts during Capaldis last season... its tricky. There is no real "consensus" EDIT: Found this really "sweet" as well as unbearably cheesy vid again: th-cam.com/video/-IEpy3PWH8Y/w-d-xo.html
@@lwaves Liz never travels in the TARDIS because nobody did in series 7... though if you want to shoehorn her in with those rules she did technically get bounced about in time by a couple minutes while the Doctor was fiddling with the console while it was removed. I'll throw Sarah Kingdom in there begrudgingly because she did go with Steven and The Doctor to present-day England for the Christmas episode, The Feast of Steven, while they were in the middle of the Daleks' Masterplan story.
@@joelakat I'm certainly not trying to shoehorn her in. As I said, I don't remember her episodes that well, as in when the exile was lifted and which characters it affected, either her end time or the start of Jo Grants.
It took me a long time to really get Davisons Doctor. I think the problem is that he brings in a lot of elements that have been better potrayed by other Doctors since. But I enjoy his sense of age he brings to the role and his vulnerbuilty as I feel the great weight thats on his shoulders.
Good review! I quite enjoy this one, one of the few I have on VHS (switched over to DVD recently), but it has it's flaws. Adric was certainly one of my least favorite companions but even then his death was poignant here, the silent credits notwithstanding. I love your point on the plans so much. It gets tiring when antagonists somehow plan for every dang thing as part of their master plan. It is good to occasionally have the Doctor outwitted but it needs to be the exception rather than the rule.
Watching it live back in the day, the fact that a companion died came as a real shock ... and, yes, Adric was the first 'real' companion to die. And the fact that there was no music over the closing titles was pretty heart-rendering......
As a child I liked Five, but in retrospect that was probably because I was really into Sci Fi and he was the least intimidating male lead of any Sci Fi show I'd ever seen, lol. He wasn't a fighter like Three or Kirk, he wasn't outspoken like McCoy or One, he wasn't distant/arrogant like Spock or Six. He was just kind of... *there* which, now that I think about it, is pretty faint praise to give a character, lol. My tastes have definitely changed. As an adult, he's nowhere in my top three and he seems so bland that I wonder if he was meant to be a little self-inserty. I still love every Doctor, but my favs Nine and Twelve for their pain, intensity, and genuine alien-ness; and Thirteen for her great joy, honesty, and love (and the fact that she is, in every way, the opposite of Twelve, which is exactly what Twelve wanted from his next incarnation).
I have to admit, I only started to like peter Davidson’s doctor, after the Davidson first season box set was released, and I went back and watched all davidson’s first season episodes again, I think davidson’s biggest problem, was that he came after the well loved Tom Baker .
The only companions to have died before Adric were Sara Kingdom and Katarina who both died in Daleks' Master Plan. Davison also doesn't work for me most of the time, and the age is likely a factor into that. Davison has said himself that he wished he was older when he played the Doctor. My favourites from his era that made me connect with him better were the Mara tales (Kinda and Snakedance) and the Black Guardian trilogy (Mawdryn Undead, Terminus and Enlightenment).
The DVD cover does give away who the villains are, which is a shame. I don't know why everyone loves to hate on Adric. He and Turlough are my favourite companions from the original series, along with Jo Grant, Jamie, and Zoe. Adric's badge-thingy? Do you mean his gold star for mathematical excellence? The one that he slips to the Doctor, because he knows the Cybermen cannot tolerate gold? The one the Doctor uses to defeat the Cyberleader, thus saving himself and everyone in the TARDIS? Aside from that, this is actually the first Cyberman story since Revenge of the Cybermen back in Tom Baker's early years (1975) and that in turn was the first Cyberman story since The Invasion in 1968, so they waited a good while between Cybermen episodes - something New Who should possibly have taken a lesson from, especially given the overuse of the Daleks.
The lack of music over the closing credits on the final episode is a kinda of a homage to an episode of Coronation Street (which is a British soap ). Back in the late 60s/early 70s a character died on screen and the producers did the silent homage to the character.
I do find it odd that 21st century Who is viewed sequentially, whereas 20th century Who isn't. Especially when wanting to warm to each incarnation. I understand it's a daunting prospect, but is how it was viewed at the time. I would even go so far as to say that every serious Who fan owes it themselves to do so. Make sure, however, to include the missing episodes, via either online reconstructions or the narrated audio releases. I promise you won't regret it.
I don’t mind Adric, remember ppl he is a 15 year old smarty pants, cocky kid. I have met real life ppl who aren’t as smart as him but just as bratty. I do like Adric and Romana in the E-space trilogy. Better than Adric, Tegan, and Nyssa dynamics.
If 5 still doesn’t click for you try The Visitation. It’s my personal favourite of the 5th doctor’s and it’s such a neat little story that it all wraps up very nicely
It was deliberate that we were trolled for a Silurians return. The magazines of the day heavily hinted it too. It was a genuine shock. Love Black Orchid BTW.
I saw this when it first came out, and it was shocking and left a lasting impression with me. At the time, Adric was the most relatable character to me; the other two were way too shallow. Also: yes, there was a companion death before this... one of Hartnell's companions got sucked out of an airlock (Katarina).
Matthew Waterhouse, Adric, lives in Connecticut now with his husband. I thought that was an interesting side note. Now if Matthew came on C.O.G. that would be something. Anyway, I was thinking it would be cool to do the worst to best inside the TARDIS stories from both classic and new Who. That qualification is the majority or all of the story takes place in the interior of the TARDIS excluding the console room.
If you're still trying to find a story where Davison clicks for you, my best suggestion would probably be in Season 21, in the form of the only Dalek story for his era called 'Resurrection of The Daleks'. It's really good, and Davison is at his best in it. So that or Caves of Androzani, because...it just is.
I may have said this before but I still find it fascinating what you keep saying about Davison's age, given that's exactly what he keeps saying himself. He ALWAYS wished that he'd been older playing the Doctor but didn't think he could risk passing up the chance. So the age he's at by Big Finish and Time Crash, that's when he always wanted to play the Doctor.
Shame we haven't had so many good Cybermen stories. They were mainly villains in the Patrick Troughton era, making 4 appearances in three years but made absolutely no stories during the Pertwee years, one in all of the Tom Baker era, then this story, then The Five Doctors, then Attack, then Silver Nemesis. It's a damn shame because they're honestly some of my favourite villains on the show.
I'd recommend Caves of Androzani (if you haven't already seen it) as a great story for Peter Davison's Doctor. It was the first and only 5th Dr story written by Robert Holmes, arguably the best writer of classic Who - possibly of all time. The Dr is written very well in this story, and Davison, as a good actor, does very well with the part.
The fifth Dr is one of my favourite Doctors. Maybe because he was my first. But I always like the youthful 'breathless' energy of this Doctor. Anyway the silent credit thing. JNT got the idea from a soap opera who had recently done the same thing when one of their characters had died. I bet you feel so much better for knowing that now lol
5:46 It was Davison's third season before I warmed to him, and I watched these the long way round! Although he's Doctorish enough in Kinda. But then Tom Baker was my first Doctor, and I think your first regeneration is the hardest to aclimatise to. So it's perfectly sound for you to have problems warming to him.
9:05 Exactly! That was exactly my experience as an 11 year old Whovian, with Doctor Who and the Cave Monsters being my favorite Target novelisation, knowing from Doctor Who Weekly that we'd be meeting an old foe, and all the clues about fossils and cave systems and mammalian life forms and dinosaurs being wiped out by asteroids were clearly massive clues... whilst almost everyone else reminisces about how exciting it was to see the Cybermen again, my personal experience was "Oh but I wanted SIlurians!!!" So for everyone else that moment is remembered as a punch the air moment, for me it is remembered as a gutting disappointment. Then a season later we got Warriors of the Deep... ... ... I don't think I need to say anything else.
Also, I was such a nit picky little fan (as an 11 year old!), to keep the identity of the antagonist a secret they use androids... ...but they are cybermen. Why are cybermen using androids? What can an android do that a cyberman can't? It's like the question of why is the Master in disguise in Time Flight? Who does he think might recognise him alone in his cave on a primordial planet Earth? I mean, to rationalize that within the fiction you have to assume heightened levels of paranoia there! But we know out of the fiction it's to keep his identity a surprise. The JNT era is not my favourite period of the show's history... but at least you could criticize it without being called a misogynist!
Speaking of which, I think Beryl Reid's Captain IS a feminist statement for the time, but by current wave of feminism judgements she's loaded with "toxic masculinity"! At the time the agenda was to show that women too can be strong ; now the agenda is to show that being strong isn't good. Over a decade before Captain Janeway though look! I think one of the things we don't like about the SJW hijacking of SF franchises is not that they have these kinds of characters but that they act like they're groundbreaking and new and in order to do that they have to misrepresent the past. For example, Star Trek Discovery bragged about how the protagonist wasn't a white male, whilst ignoring that Sisko and Janeway even existed, so they can portray their own diversity as even more heroic. It's like having false evidence planted on you by the same person making a citizens arrest. "I just caught this man red-handed enjoying something white and male and insufficiently diverse. Thank you, thank you citizens. Just doing my duty!" It's a marketing ploy. And the Beeb definitely had SJWs in the 80s; in fact the 80s was a worse time than the 90s. I refer to the late 90s as the thaw. One year a BBC employee designed an ident for the Christmas season with three snowmen, and Michael Grade sent him off to do it again because there were no snowwomen. (Did he just assume those snowpeoples' genders?.~) Of course the chief similarity between the 80s and now is they are both times of immense economic strife, whereas the mid 90s to the mid 00s were a time of properity, and I think that's when the identity politics becomes rabid, possibly (with my tin hat on) to divert people's attention from real issues and make everyone more angry at their fellow man than at the establishment.
If I remember right there was a backlash at Adric's death. I think it was more of a companion dying than anything else. I think there was mixed feelings about the character.
I like how the military helmets from this episode go into BBC storage, then get reused in other things, such as Delta and the Bannerman, or Hudzen 10 in Red Dwarf.
The only time Pertwee "dealt" with the Cybermen (onscreen) is when he saw them on the screen viewer of the miniaturization machine in Carnival of Monsters and when he encountered them in The Five Doctors, which is separate from his five years in the role. The odd thing about Carnival of Monsters is that they are just shown as being IN there, and given the threat that they are, it is surprising to imagine that with their advanced technology they were not the main threat, figuring out how to get out, if not before the Drashigs, but after they messed up the machine. I mean, really? Those clownish earth circus performers really outsmarted the Cybermen?? Not sure, but they might have been depicted in some nightmarish flashback visuals when he was encountering someone like The Master, in which case they weren't really there bit in his mind, which I guess is another way of "dealing" with them.
Aw dude thank you so much. I love this story. It's my top who episode. Thank you so much man. The third doctor only encountered cybermen in the five doctors
I think Nyssa could be a companion from old Who to reintroduce in Nu Who, most people say she has far more value as an adult (and parent) in Sarah Sutton's work on Big Finish audio plays.
I always felt Adric was what The Doctor must’ve been like when he was a kid. Anyway, What about Sci Fi and genius kids never getting written properly. Stephen King can do it, why can’t other writers? So let’s open this chain of hopefully a fun and respectful debate on the “evolution of the genius kid in science fiction” using the most famous one of them all as there are three distinct versions. Will Robinson from Lost in Space, The 60s, the 90s and the 2018-present. How have writers tackled smart kids in general in shows and movies and focus on and Use Will Robinson as the example of that change.
@@CouncilofGeeks I will say Blakes Seven is an awesome sci-fi series and worth seeing and viewing should you get a chance to see and review Blake,s Seven.
Not sure if you've seen The Caves of Androzani yet (don't see a review up for it), but for me, I felt that Davison finally clicked with me. Really solid story, shame it took until his last one to connect with me. Definitely worth watching (if you haven't already) to hopefully see the Fifth Doctor in a better context.
I personally love the fifth doctor, (which of fine obviously, since we all have differing opinions) but I do have a suggestion. On one of the surveys, put a high note on the ‘Caves of Androzani’. That episode did make the fifth doctor a hell of a lot better for me.
Do you think the Doctor is a bit of an asshole at the beginning of 'Time Flight'? Tegan suggests a way they could save Adric, and he just shuts her and Nyssa down.
Adric is interesting for me because he is an early case of how SciFi treats mathematician characters. From the stories, he clearly a talented mathematician. He only briefly talks to the people on Logopolis but learns how to do block-transfer calculations (maths that change physical reality). This is something that neither the Master or the Doctor can do, but Adric can. He can also fly the Tardis. The death is similar to the legend about Archimedes (see wikipedia for that). A lot of Adric's character reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang theory (or Wesley Crusher); I don't like either of those. With Adric the writing wasn't always good but at least they pointed to some accomplishments to back up his attitude as noted above. (A funny instance of his attitude from 4 to Doomsday "Teagan: We need to get home or I will lose my job. Adric: you should learn more maths and you can get a better job.") Characters like Hari Seldon (Foundation) or Avon (Blake's 7) do a lot better at treating mathematician types as serious people. Adric's obsession with solving the puzzle at the end was authentic though.
Even in the modern era, whenever clear plastic appears in DW, we know something serious is about to go down. Didn't Tennant say Davison was his favourite Doctor?
I think there were other companions who died before Adric but it was back in the first doctor's time and those particular episodes were some of the lost ones. So, Nathaniel, Adric's not the earliest companion death but he's the earliest one a fan like you or I could be expected to see. I mean, unless you're somehow over sixty. In which case, I need to know your secret!
I think that's "Revenge of the Cybermen" which aired in 1975 and was the first since "The Invasion" in 1968. This is the one 7 years on after that. I think it's fair to say NuWho recycles the classic era villains much more than the classic era did!
Huh. Interesting that you thought back to the Tomb of the Cybermen when you saw them breaking out of plastic. I instantly thought back to the Invasion of the Cybermen :P But I guess it has to be a callback to the Tomb because it came much earlier.
Nyssa could of been one of the best companions of all time... but they had 3 companions and she was put on the back burner. Remember the Master stole her fathers body, and they ran into the Master more than a few times. But they don’t have any moments of Nyssa having to come to terms or deal with the Master looking like her father. And she was super smart, from a different planet where humans society was different than ours. And they had her do nothing most stories she was in.. criminal!
There was still moments where she commented on it like in Castrovalva but she never actually had that big moment where she properly acknowledged it
When the TV show fails, you can always turn to Big Finish.
Tegan "A broken clock keeps better time than you. At least it's right twice a day" Best line in doctor who ever.
Ah, from the Visitation Part One.
Katarina and Sarah Kingdom both perished in 1965 12-parter Daleks' Masterplan
Neil Mcdonald you beat me to the punch.😀
But its up in the air if they "are" companions. For me personally: yes they are.
I'm not sure if Sara counts,but Katarina does...briefly
Beat me to it
@@neilmcdonald8355 Sara Kingdom IS officially considered a companion...yet, oddly, Bret Vyon ISN'T...which I find odd as both characters served essentially the same purpose within the same story with both dying during it. They even work for the same agency AND are siblings! Bret Vyon starts "Dalek's Masterplan" as the Space Security Agent helping The Doctor, then is killed by his sister, Sara Kingdom, as she is convinced that he is a traitor, she then learns otherwise and then continues the story in her brother's place as the Space Security Agent helping The Doctor...then is aged to death by the Time Distructer at the story's conclusion. So why SHE is considered a companion when Bret Vyon isn't just really makes no sense to me...as far as I am concerned, if Sara Kingdom is a companion then so is Bret Vyon and so you get THREE companion deaths IN THE SAME STORY...first Katarina, then Bret Vyon and then finally Sara Kingdom...damn did that story have a body count! 😶😮😬😵
I think Adric's death is still shocking today. Even though we've had characters part under tragic circumstances, we've yet to have a "real" death of a companion in New Who.
The 3rd Doctor never met the Cybermen on TV except for the Five Doctors special...those Cybermen scenes were written specifically for Jon Pertwee, as a remedy for him never meeting with them during his run.
They’ve met numerous times in books and comics though.
Great review! :) I was there back in 1982, and yes the Cybermen reveal was a huge surprise for all who watched it on original transmission. One of the final times that such a reveal was kept so completely under wraps, and the cliff-hanger was all the better for it - a big subject for discussion in the school playground the following day! (And yes I too thought "Silurians" at the time.)
As for your query about previous companions dying, yes Katarina and Sara Kingdom both perished in the 12 part epic 1966 story "The Dalek Master Plan", but neither had been around for many episodes and were essentially very temporary TARDIS travellers. (Think Adam Mitchell, or perhaps Jack Harkness or Mickey Smith in terms of their lengths of time actually travelling in the TARDIS.) So I think we can safely say Adric was the only "fully established" longer standing companion to have been "killed off", at least up to that point in the show. :) Hope that helps.
I was there in '82 too - is this our Woodstock? ;-)
The Cybermen and Adric's death were definitely a big surprise for me. I kept thinking that they were going to find a way out of it, The Doctor will save him....he always does and Adric won't die. Then The Doctor didn't and Adric did.
I felt the lack of music at the end enhanced things. It showed that Adric really was gone. I get the Council's feeling's about it but he's looking at it from a point of view of now, where it's been overused and cliched, instead of then when it wasn't so much.
Robert Gairey This was a few years before I started watching...I started up with Davison’s penultimate story, where Turlough leaves and Peri joins up with him (I want to say Planet of Fire, but not 100% sure about that being the correct title)
Tho I have watched most of classic who, including this story...and despite knowing what happened at the end...I was on the edge of my seat wondering how it got to that point...
Adric is seen holdong a memento that belonged to his brother as he faces death and says "ill never know". A nice touch directionally.
The moment at the end with the star shook me. I didn't attach to Adric that much, but the episode still made it emotional.
The shattered, disbelieving look on Davison's face when the Doctor realises Adric is dead is one of the best bits of acting in the show's history. It's a heart breaking moment. Peter Davison is seriously underrated in this role.
Fun fact: the reason Jon Pertwee never had a Cybermen story is that Terrence Dicks, the script editor at the time, didn't like them. He felt we'd seen enough of them in Troughton's era.
To be fair, we kinda did get a shitload of them in Troughtons era. Twice a season even! They needed a rest but a story halfway through Pertwee's run would have been nice
Which is why Terrance had them being sliced up by the Raston Warrior Robot in 'The Five Doctors'.
I also think another reason why we never had Cybermen for the Pertwee era was because Pertwee also hated them and the Daleks because he liked to get a facial and emotional reaction from his villains and he couldn't do that with Daleks and Cybermen.
aww thats a shame - is there any EU stuff ware doc 3 takes on the silver wrong uns do we ken ?
@@cregsgirthytoys7209 Big Finish have a couple, one with Liz Shaw and one with Jo.
A shame Jon Pertwee never had a Cybermen story in billions of ways it would have been awesome if he had met the dreaded Cybermen a sadly missed chance
I like the Fifth Doctor because he feels like one of the most human Doctors. He seems a bit vulnerable and emotional, and he's always being pushed into terrible situations, like in Earthshock and The Caves of Androzani. He feels really heroic for always pushing through.
defo a hero doc !
That's right, that's a core part of Davison's Doctor. He's an amazing Doctor.
Episode 1 of Earthshock is, in my humble (?) opinion, probably the single creepiest episode Classic Who ever did.
I suppose Davison works better for me since he was my second Doctor. I first tuned in to see Tom Baker in the early 80s on PBS, and the Davison episodes began airing while he was still the current Doctor.
Once they ran out of those, they flipped back to Pertwee and Baker again. Lacking a VCR, I put a tape recorder next to the TV and recorded the soundtracks of the episodes. There was an audible cheer from my little sister when Tom Baker appeared on screen again!
Much as I saw Earthgshock when it was broadcast first time around I was only aged, horrible 13 and stuck in dreaded school when this story was made JNT made every effort to keep the Cybermens return a surprise and when the Cybermen appeared in the climax of episode 1 it was a surprise and I got goosebumps.
The fifth doctor tends to get flustered very easily when under pressure, which can lead to him acting rashly and can also account for him being bad tempered.
His mood changes depending on how much pressure he's under, that accounts for the mood swings, or at least that's how I like to see it.
I'm biased, Peter Davison is MY Doctor. I recognise that his run isn't perfect, but his run was what made me fall in love with Doctor Who, and I've never understood why Tom Baker didn't connect with me, but I still, to this day, I remember how much watching "Castrovalva" for the first time touched me as a third grader and how it changed my life, because that was the moment I became a Whovian. I've always felt the biggest flaw with Davison's tenure is Eric Saward, who was the script editor for 95% of his tenure, and also the writer of this story. I have never felt like Saward ever really "wanted" to write Doctor Who, i always felt like he wanted to write gritty, hard-boiled mercenary stories, because those elements are constants in the stories of his tenure, and the show suffered for that, IMO. With the exception of the moon boots, this is my favourite Cybermen design, MUCH superior to either modern design we've gotten (not counting the original version redesign from series 10).
Peter Davison reportedly wanted to play the part older, but was never really allowed to do it. Once nice moment, though, was how he reacted to Susan in The Five Doctors, the fondness with which he looks at her.
Have to start with my bias - Davison is my Doctor. I properly started watching the show with Castrovalva. What follows is my defence of my Doctor.
(1) Let’s not beat around the bush. Davison did not have the benefit of having good writing. That’s not unique to him. McCoy and Colin Baker can both make the same complaint, perhaps even more so, but it’s there. He starts with an arm tied behind his back by the writing.
(2) The violence comment surprises me - Colin Baker’s Doctor (whom I also love, so you should be aware that my judgment is questionable) has that reputation more than Peter. I think it’s mostly about the time when they were made.
(3) Davison was following Tom Baker. I know we all know that. But the result is that he probably had the hardest job of any new Doctor since Troughton and probably since then. Smith following Tennant might be comparable, but not everyone loved 10. EVERYONE loved Tom, and rightly so. The idea of the Fifth Doctor was to make him more vulnerable and flawed. Moffat has 10 say in Time Crash that the 5 is when the Doctor no longer felt the need to put on act - the idea being the vulnerability we see in 5 (and recently in 13) is always there, the others just made more of an effort to hide it.
(4) Reading and watching all the behind the scenes stuff you get the idea that Davison understood the character better than his Producer and writers. Davison wanted him to be all about simple, even low-tech solutions to complex technological problems and JNT didn’t really agree. I think Peter was spot on - foiling an alien invasion with an apple and a yo-yo is exactly who the Doctor is.
(5) The multiple companions thing is an issue, but also think about this. He inherited all 3 from his predecessor. Yes, the show knew Tom was leaving, but back then they didn’t plan ahead very much so there was likely little or no thought about how Tegan, Nyssa and Africa would play with 5’s personality. Adric seems especially pointless - his youth and naivety contrasts with 4 but there’s no space there with 5. Peter lobbied hard not to kill Adric as some have claimed, but to keep Nyssa as he felt her character worked best with his Doctor. It’s clear from what’s been said since that Peter wasn’t necessarily Matthew Waterhouse’s biggest fan, but he regrets agreeing to Adric’s death.
(6) After all that apologising, let’s talk about what I love about 5. Lots of people talk about 5 being the most human of the doctors. That’s partly about being flawed, but his compassion really comes across, perhaps more so than any Doctor until Tennant. He seems more willing than most of the doctors to express what he is feeling. I always especially love when 5 is disappointed - his whole being seems to collapse a little. There may be something to this idea, too. Most of the previous doctors essentially just played themselves, Peter is playing a character. But he does so without looking like he’s acting.
Not sure I’ve expressed what I wanted to here. For what it’s worth, I’d look to Caves of Androzani - if nothing else you get a feel for how great his three seasons could have been if the writing had been better.
Chris Palmer I’m with you on ALL your points. But alas, Davison is my Doctor also.
Peter is my favorite Doctor. You make great points in your defense. Part of Peter’s challenge was to be frustrated at being an old man in a young man’s body- that his youth didn’t command the respect and naturally grant him authority. I like the three companion concept which also played into the 20th anniversary feel, harkening back to the start of the show. Writers played the characters off of each other- but not enough as they could have.
Peter gave a great performance that touched on some of the behaviors of previous Doctors. He was saddled with Baker’s companions as well as Baker’s Master. Turlough worked way better than Adric against Peter. Also, Peter was not allowed to be sexual like the younger Doctors of today. And his previous role was a highly sexual character. Oh the fun that could’ve been in the writing!
Nathaniel: *Structures the review in a very spoiler-friendly way*
Also Nathaniel: *Puts the Cybermen on the thumbnail*
It's interesting you mention Davison's doctor seeming bratty because that might actually set you in good stead for his Big Finish stories. His voice sounds noticeably older, which I find a little distracting, but works better for moments where the Doctor is angry or cranky (there are some moments where it works to really fantastic effect in Spare Parts).
One big thing about the Cybermen reveal was that, not only was it the first time they'd been seen in 6-7 years, but that story was actually considered by the fans to have been very lackluster (Producer Philip Hinchliffe himself referring to it as "the hangover after the party of Genesis of the Daleks"), and that itself was 6-7 years after the preceding one. So higher-tech looking Cybermen introduced at the end of a near-horror based Part 1 was a massive deal, as it seemed that viewers were finally seeing a good cyberman story for the first time in well over a decade.
On that note, you really should check out "Putting the Shock in Earthshock", the special that came with the DVD. It's easily one of my favorite Classic-Who specials. It actually, among other things, shows how smart and into Doctor Who young Gatiss and Moffat were (the latter actually making the Wesley Crusher comparison). They also explain how the visible human jaw was intentionally put in to remind the audience that it's essentially a sentient robotic corpse.
My all time favorite Cyberman design. I always liked the clear chin on the head piece. As originally conceived, these suits were survival gear for a dying race, and showing the moving chin of the person inside was a great reminder of that.
That's why I really like the Mondasian Cybermen from the Tenth Planet, they have human hands and at certain points, if you like closely you can actually see their eyes behind the black fabric.
Poor Matt this is his best episode and hid last. I think I am the only person who liked Adric.
I liked Adric. I can see why people find him annoying but that's because he was meant to be annoying. He and the Doctor were written to be at odds, especially where mathematics are concerned. The Doctor has never been comfortable with the idea that others might be smarter than him.
lwaves I can see why they are annoyed with him, but I’ve never, gotten the outright distain you see expressed for him.
My brother, who's not a massive Doctor Who fan, but still enjoy watching it, actually really likes what he's seen of Adric (personally, I think he's ok, but not a fav companion). I think it's at least partly a matter of relatability in this case. Like, I think my brother (whether consciously or not) see somewhat of his younger self in Adric, which allows him to connect more strongly with the character.
I actually prefer Adric to some of Davison's other companions - like Turlough and Tegan. I do see why people don't care for him though. And I agree that 3 companions is too many though. Earthshock wasn't the only episode with this trio that tended to shove one of them off to the side for the episode.
He worked better with Tom Baker than Peter Davison.
Black Orchid is only 50 min. A short 5th Doctor 2 parter. But it has more Nyssa in the story. One of my favorite 5th Doctor story.
Early '80s Who - seasons 18 to 20 at least - were like the '60s era of the show in that pretty much every story led directly on from the previous one. It's a thing that i really like about both of those periods of the show, but i think it maybe causes a disconnect for people who dip in and out of random stories. Or at least, something's lost that way. The Fifth Doctor's moods probably make more sense in context, as the TARDIS crew often start each story affected by or dealing with consequences from the last one.
As for the story: i'm a fan of the Davison era, but maybe a bit out of step with others in that 'Earthshock' has never really been up there as a favourite of mine. I mean, it's fine, and it's a well-directed action story if that's your bag but i'm more an 'Enlightenment' kind of guy.
I do like the fact that Adric is holding his belt as a sort of comforter just before the freighter explodes, as the belt was given to him by his brother Varsh in 'Full Circle' just before he died. Those are the kind of continuity references i like: subtle ones that are fun if you pick up on them, but you don't lose anything if you don't.
I'd forgotten about that bit with the belt! Great stuff. Enlightenment is class... bonkers in just the right amounts and a nice conclusion to the Guardians trilogy.
thats a cracking point about his moods reacting to the previous goings on !
Glen McCulla Oh yes. There is a clear, consistent narrative all the way from Full Circle to at least Arc Of Infinity.
When I first saw the climax in the 80’s, I’ll admit I cried.
Still one of my favourite Cyberman and Doctor Who stories. The confrontation between the Cyber-leader and the Doctor is especially great. “Small beautiful things is what life is all about”
I like Davison: my friend and I watched the original transition from Tom Baker to Davison, and we both predicted that anyone following Baker was going to have an impossible task. For the change, I think they went the best way, and always felt that Doctor Number 5 was the most vulnerable and the most prone to making mistakes with consequences. So I liked a lot of the Doctor Number 5 stories, and always felt for Davison because of the supremely difficult task of taking up where Baker left off. I had an inbuilt sympathy for his situation as an actor and for the character treatment. He was, I feel, not ever given the space and time by the production and the reception to be what he could have been with the character, but he made the next transition much easier (though I never liked Number 6 and stopped watching with him).
I seem to remember being told a long time ago, that Davison's decision to leave, was driven a lot by his displeasure at the way the scripts were not of the quality he felt was good enough, and I seem to remember he left All Creatures Great and Small for a while, for the same reason.
Colin Baker was even harder done by, especially as it is clear Eric Saward didn't agree with him being the Doctor, but wouldn't stand down as script editor. There are some good bits in Colin Baker's time, but they are sparse. I always give credit to the fact that Colin Baker always gave really good performances, and so glad that Big Finish were able to give his character the redemption it needed. On TV they never gave him the chance to take the character where he felt it should go, finally giving us stories where his Doctor is much more sympathetic, while still keeping that sarcasm, the need for correct grammar and just about the right level of overbearing pomposity.
Still prefer Davison's character, but I've really warmed up to Colin Baker.
@@bruceparker1164 Thanks for that very interesting information. Now I want to go back to Colin Baker's episodes and give him a fairer shake than I did back in the day.
I love this story but there's always one thing that puts me off which is how EMOTIONAL the cybermen are. it just seems very anti-cybermen
I have a real soft spot for this story. I saw this one as a kid (almost 14 at the time) and the BBC were good at secrets. The cyber men were a big reveal and so was Adric's death. I was opened mouthed so the "moment of silence" ending was very powerful at the time. It was the 1st companion to die in my lifetime. The previous two were during the 1st doctor's time. Overall a cracking episode for me. I do think you should visit ENLIGHTENMENT which is one of the best Dr Who's from Davison's era. Very bizarre but very interesting.
Amazing episode. The Cybermen are so cool, and David Banks as the Cyber Leader just rules it. I dislike Adric alot however the ending gets me everytime. Fantastic writing and the no music over the closing credits? Wow.
classic
From what I am hearing about Peter Davison's 5 is that he has the same problem as Jodie Whittaker's 13. Funny 13 is the fifth Doctor in NuWho (Excluding John Hurt and that David Tennant regenerated twice).
I mean, if you’re looking for a story to connect with Davison, you can’t go wrong with Caves of Androzani. But I think you’ve already seen that? My favorite Doctor is Davison though so I have to bring it up.
Nyssa is brilliant in the Big Finish audios. Worth checking out some stories with her.
Peter and Colin were both the shooty Doctors.
Eric Saward's influence? During his tenure as script-editor there were several dark, often bleak storylines commissioned from other writers (Resurrection of the Daleks, Caves of Androzani, Vengeance on Varos) and those he penned himself (Earthshock, Attack of the Cybermen, Revelation of the Daleks). Even comparatively less heavy fare like Terminus and The Visitation were about leprosy, plague and arson!
True. But they were still the two shooty Doctors till Tennant came along. Check out TB in Seeds of Doom where the Doctor is pointing a gun at Scorby. While his hand is around the grip/handle, his finger is never in the trigger area. TB said at the time children should never see the Doctor willing to fire a gun.
Favourite Cyberman story.
i quite like big revenge of the cybermen. its bad but nostalgically so !
Similarly to you with 13, i felt no connection to 5. Then I watched Caves of Androzani, which by far is my favorite Davison performance, and in that moment at the end of episode 3, he finally clicked with me.
He IS a bit off but I'm glad after two arrogant charisma bombs like 3 and 4 to have someone who's awkward and unsure at times. I also love the tension in the TARDIS with very real feeling people like Adric and Tegan who in real life would have disagreements sometimes.
Yaz is the modern day Nyssa.
I think Kinda may be the story you're looking for in regards to getting into the 5th Doctor
loved kinda last year on the twitch !
I think in billions of ways the Cybermen never appearing with the 3rd dr was disgusting
The Cybermen were in Pertwee story "Carnival of Monsters" but I don't think the Doctor had any interaction with them.
Katrina from the Mythmakers (Trojan Handmaiden) as well as Sarah Kingdom (future Security/police/agent) died... its debated if they "count" as companions.
If the definition goes: Traveled in the Tardis at least once and was in more than 2 stories (not episodes in ONE story), then Katrina IS and Sarah is NOT a companion. But Sarah did way more than Katrina and played a far larger role so...
Also that definition would make Adam (New Who season 1) a companion and Liz Shaw (Third Doctor season 1 ... or season 7 overall) a non-companion... and yeah... nope :D
On another note: This episodes main highlight is with out a doubt the directing. Its filmed very much like an action movie. As much as was possible considering budget and equipment. The story is solid as well. But better (or just as good) 5th Doctor stories are out there imo.
-Kinda and Snakedance (sort of part of the same story)
-Enlightenment (I just love this one... its properly insane and odd)
-Caves of A. obviously... no need for explaining that one :D
-Resurrection of the Daleks (jesus... dark as F!)
-Mawdryn Undead (redundant title much redundant?)
-Four to Doomsday (mixed bag... but wacky)
-Arc of Infinity (not really that great of a story... but Peter does a good Omega for me. Really sells the "tragic" villain part. Hes not an asshole... he is desperate, alone and mad)
and 5 Doctors I suppose... though do we count that one as a 5th Doctor story? ;)
For me the definition has to be travelled in the TARDIS at least once inbetween those two stories, i.e. the journey part between the two locations/times. Which is why Adam counts as a companion and the Brigadier doesn't. I class the Brigadier as a recurring acquaintance. I can't remember Liz Shaw's episodes well enough to comment on those.
It has to be a pretty strict rule or you can start counting Daleks, The Master and various other characters as companions too.
@@lwaves Obviously they have to be on the Doctors side ;)
Liz never traveled in the Tardis as it was broken during her season, the Brig traveled in the Tardis a few times with both 3 and 5, the Master or more specifically Missy was pretty much a companion of sorts during Capaldis last season...
its tricky. There is no real "consensus"
EDIT: Found this really "sweet" as well as unbearably cheesy vid again:
th-cam.com/video/-IEpy3PWH8Y/w-d-xo.html
@@lwaves Liz never travels in the TARDIS because nobody did in series 7... though if you want to shoehorn her in with those rules she did technically get bounced about in time by a couple minutes while the Doctor was fiddling with the console while it was removed. I'll throw Sarah Kingdom in there begrudgingly because she did go with Steven and The Doctor to present-day England for the Christmas episode, The Feast of Steven, while they were in the middle of the Daleks' Masterplan story.
Four to Doomsday is super dull.
@@joelakat I'm certainly not trying to shoehorn her in. As I said, I don't remember her episodes that well, as in when the exile was lifted and which characters it affected, either her end time or the start of Jo Grants.
It took me a long time to really get Davisons Doctor. I think the problem is that he brings in a lot of elements that have been better potrayed by other Doctors since. But I enjoy his sense of age he brings to the role and his vulnerbuilty as I feel the great weight thats on his shoulders.
defo agree !
Good review! I quite enjoy this one, one of the few I have on VHS (switched over to DVD recently), but it has it's flaws. Adric was certainly one of my least favorite companions but even then his death was poignant here, the silent credits notwithstanding.
I love your point on the plans so much. It gets tiring when antagonists somehow plan for every dang thing as part of their master plan. It is good to occasionally have the Doctor outwitted but it needs to be the exception rather than the rule.
Davison is at his best in the audios, specifically stories with Peri (also at her best) and Erimem.
Watching it live back in the day, the fact that a companion died came as a real shock ... and, yes, Adric was the first 'real' companion to die. And the fact that there was no music over the closing titles was pretty heart-rendering......
Earthshock was one my first classic Who stories.
As a child I liked Five, but in retrospect that was probably because I was really into Sci Fi and he was the least intimidating male lead of any Sci Fi show I'd ever seen, lol. He wasn't a fighter like Three or Kirk, he wasn't outspoken like McCoy or One, he wasn't distant/arrogant like Spock or Six. He was just kind of... *there* which, now that I think about it, is pretty faint praise to give a character, lol. My tastes have definitely changed.
As an adult, he's nowhere in my top three and he seems so bland that I wonder if he was meant to be a little self-inserty. I still love every Doctor, but my favs Nine and Twelve for their pain, intensity, and genuine alien-ness; and Thirteen for her great joy, honesty, and love (and the fact that she is, in every way, the opposite of Twelve, which is exactly what Twelve wanted from his next incarnation).
I have to admit, I only started to like peter Davidson’s doctor, after the Davidson first season box set was released, and I went back and watched all davidson’s first season episodes again, I think davidson’s biggest problem, was that he came after the well loved Tom Baker .
The only companions to have died before Adric were Sara Kingdom and Katarina who both died in Daleks' Master Plan. Davison also doesn't work for me most of the time, and the age is likely a factor into that. Davison has said himself that he wished he was older when he played the Doctor. My favourites from his era that made me connect with him better were the Mara tales (Kinda and Snakedance) and the Black Guardian trilogy (Mawdryn Undead, Terminus and Enlightenment).
my fav 5th dr ep & one of my fav Cybermen stories, imagine Adric meeting Wesley Crusher lol (I've never disliked them that much though)
The DVD cover does give away who the villains are, which is a shame. I don't know why everyone loves to hate on Adric. He and Turlough are my favourite companions from the original series, along with Jo Grant, Jamie, and Zoe. Adric's badge-thingy? Do you mean his gold star for mathematical excellence? The one that he slips to the Doctor, because he knows the Cybermen cannot tolerate gold? The one the Doctor uses to defeat the Cyberleader, thus saving himself and everyone in the TARDIS? Aside from that, this is actually the first Cyberman story since Revenge of the Cybermen back in Tom Baker's early years (1975) and that in turn was the first Cyberman story since The Invasion in 1968, so they waited a good while between Cybermen episodes - something New Who should possibly have taken a lesson from, especially given the overuse of the Daleks.
I liked Earthshock in billions of ways and IMOthe Cybermen are way better portrayed than they were in Revenge of the Cybermen
The lack of music over the closing credits on the final episode is a kinda of a homage to an episode of Coronation Street (which is a British soap ). Back in the late 60s/early 70s a character died on screen and the producers did the silent homage to the character.
I do find it odd that 21st century Who is viewed sequentially, whereas 20th century Who isn't. Especially when wanting to warm to each incarnation. I understand it's a daunting prospect, but is how it was viewed at the time. I would even go so far as to say that every serious Who fan owes it themselves to do so. Make sure, however, to include the missing episodes, via either online reconstructions or the narrated audio releases. I promise you won't regret it.
the dr who twitch stream helps with that !
I don’t mind Adric, remember ppl he is a 15 year old smarty pants, cocky kid. I have met real life ppl who aren’t as smart as him but just as bratty.
I do like Adric and Romana in the E-space trilogy. Better than Adric, Tegan, and Nyssa dynamics.
If 5 still doesn’t click for you try The Visitation. It’s my personal favourite of the 5th doctor’s and it’s such a neat little story that it all wraps up very nicely
Great story! Definitely one of my favourite Fifth Doctor episodes.
This was really entertaining review at 1.5X speed.
this is like having a book club meeting and saying spoilers when everybody there has read and is ready to discuss the book.
It was deliberate that we were trolled for a Silurians return. The magazines of the day heavily hinted it too. It was a genuine shock. Love Black Orchid BTW.
I saw this when it first came out, and it was shocking and left a lasting impression with me. At the time, Adric was the most relatable character to me; the other two were way too shallow. Also: yes, there was a companion death before this... one of Hartnell's companions got sucked out of an airlock (Katarina).
Matthew Waterhouse, Adric, lives in Connecticut now with his husband. I thought that was an interesting side note. Now if Matthew came on C.O.G. that would be something.
Anyway, I was thinking it would be cool to do the worst to best inside the TARDIS stories from both classic and new Who. That qualification is the majority or all of the story takes place in the interior of the TARDIS excluding the console room.
invasion of time is my best and worst
love that 80s cyber look !
If you're still trying to find a story where Davison clicks for you, my best suggestion would probably be in Season 21, in the form of the only Dalek story for his era called 'Resurrection of The Daleks'. It's really good, and Davison is at his best in it.
So that or Caves of Androzani, because...it just is.
Just in case no one has mentioned this, the first companion to die was Katarina in The Dalek's Master Plan
I started Classic Who either just before Adric joined the cast or that was the first story I saw. So getting to Earthshock was a big surprise for me.
I may have said this before but I still find it fascinating what you keep saying about Davison's age, given that's exactly what he keeps saying himself. He ALWAYS wished that he'd been older playing the Doctor but didn't think he could risk passing up the chance. So the age he's at by Big Finish and Time Crash, that's when he always wanted to play the Doctor.
80s Who gave us one of the best things to come out of DW: David Banks as the Cyber-Leader
Shame we haven't had so many good Cybermen stories. They were mainly villains in the Patrick Troughton era, making 4 appearances in three years but made absolutely no stories during the Pertwee years, one in all of the Tom Baker era, then this story, then The Five Doctors, then Attack, then Silver Nemesis. It's a damn shame because they're honestly some of my favourite villains on the show.
I'd recommend Caves of Androzani (if you haven't already seen it) as a great story for Peter Davison's Doctor. It was the first and only 5th Dr story written by Robert Holmes, arguably the best writer of classic Who - possibly of all time. The Dr is written very well in this story, and Davison, as a good actor, does very well with the part.
The fifth Dr is one of my favourite Doctors. Maybe because he was my first. But I always like the youthful 'breathless' energy of this Doctor. Anyway the silent credit thing. JNT got the idea from a soap opera who had recently done the same thing when one of their characters had died. I bet you feel so much better for knowing that now lol
5:46 It was Davison's third season before I warmed to him, and I watched these the long way round! Although he's Doctorish enough in Kinda. But then Tom Baker was my first Doctor, and I think your first regeneration is the hardest to aclimatise to. So it's perfectly sound for you to have problems warming to him.
9:05 Exactly! That was exactly my experience as an 11 year old Whovian, with Doctor Who and the Cave Monsters being my favorite Target novelisation, knowing from Doctor Who Weekly that we'd be meeting an old foe, and all the clues about fossils and cave systems and mammalian life forms and dinosaurs being wiped out by asteroids were clearly massive clues... whilst almost everyone else reminisces about how exciting it was to see the Cybermen again, my personal experience was "Oh but I wanted SIlurians!!!" So for everyone else that moment is remembered as a punch the air moment, for me it is remembered as a gutting disappointment.
Then a season later we got Warriors of the Deep...
...
...
I don't think I need to say anything else.
Also, I was such a nit picky little fan (as an 11 year old!), to keep the identity of the antagonist a secret they use androids...
...but they are cybermen. Why are cybermen using androids? What can an android do that a cyberman can't? It's like the question of why is the Master in disguise in Time Flight? Who does he think might recognise him alone in his cave on a primordial planet Earth? I mean, to rationalize that within the fiction you have to assume heightened levels of paranoia there! But we know out of the fiction it's to keep his identity a surprise.
The JNT era is not my favourite period of the show's history... but at least you could criticize it without being called a misogynist!
Speaking of which, I think Beryl Reid's Captain IS a feminist statement for the time, but by current wave of feminism judgements she's loaded with "toxic masculinity"! At the time the agenda was to show that women too can be strong ; now the agenda is to show that being strong isn't good. Over a decade before Captain Janeway though look! I think one of the things we don't like about the SJW hijacking of SF franchises is not that they have these kinds of characters but that they act like they're groundbreaking and new and in order to do that they have to misrepresent the past. For example, Star Trek Discovery bragged about how the protagonist wasn't a white male, whilst ignoring that Sisko and Janeway even existed, so they can portray their own diversity as even more heroic. It's like having false evidence planted on you by the same person making a citizens arrest. "I just caught this man red-handed enjoying something white and male and insufficiently diverse. Thank you, thank you citizens. Just doing my duty!"
It's a marketing ploy.
And the Beeb definitely had SJWs in the 80s; in fact the 80s was a worse time than the 90s. I refer to the late 90s as the thaw. One year a BBC employee designed an ident for the Christmas season with three snowmen, and Michael Grade sent him off to do it again because there were no snowwomen. (Did he just assume those snowpeoples' genders?.~) Of course the chief similarity between the 80s and now is they are both times of immense economic strife, whereas the mid 90s to the mid 00s were a time of properity, and I think that's when the identity politics becomes rabid, possibly (with my tin hat on) to divert people's attention from real issues and make everyone more angry at their fellow man than at the establishment.
If I remember right there was a backlash at Adric's death. I think it was more of a companion dying than anything else. I think there was mixed feelings about the character.
I like how the military helmets from this episode go into BBC storage, then get reused in other things, such as Delta and the Bannerman, or Hudzen 10 in Red Dwarf.
Also "Mysterious Planet" - aka Trial of a Time Lord, episodes 1 to 4.
The only time Pertwee "dealt" with the Cybermen (onscreen) is when he saw them on the screen viewer of the miniaturization machine in Carnival of Monsters and when he encountered them in The Five Doctors, which is separate from his five years in the role. The odd thing about Carnival of Monsters is that they are just shown as being IN there, and given the threat that they are, it is surprising to imagine that with their advanced technology they were not the main threat, figuring out how to get out, if not before the Drashigs, but after they messed up the machine. I mean, really? Those clownish earth circus performers really outsmarted the Cybermen??
Not sure, but they might have been depicted in some nightmarish flashback visuals when he was encountering someone like The Master, in which case they weren't really there bit in his mind, which I guess is another way of "dealing" with them.
Aw dude thank you so much. I love this story. It's my top who episode. Thank you so much man. The third doctor only encountered cybermen in the five doctors
I think Nyssa could be a companion from old Who to reintroduce in Nu Who, most people say she has far more value as an adult (and parent) in Sarah Sutton's work on Big Finish audio plays.
I always felt Adric was what The Doctor must’ve been like when he was a kid. Anyway, What about Sci Fi and genius kids never getting written properly. Stephen King can do it, why can’t other writers? So let’s open this chain of hopefully a fun and respectful debate on the “evolution of the genius kid in science fiction” using the most famous one of them all as there are three distinct versions. Will Robinson from Lost in Space, The 60s, the 90s and the 2018-present. How have writers tackled smart kids in general in shows and movies and focus on and Use Will Robinson as the example of that change.
the 2018 yin i feel was portrayed as less smart and more normal ish i want to say ? id have to go back for a re watch tho
Have you ever seen Blake,s Seven and is there any chance, you will be reviewing the Blake,s Seven episodes.
I haven't seen it. And I have no clue when I might ever get to it.
@@CouncilofGeeks I will say Blakes Seven is an awesome sci-fi series and worth seeing and viewing should you get a chance to see and review Blake,s Seven.
Anyone would get cranky being stuck in the TARDIS with Adric and Tegan. 😁
Not sure if you've seen The Caves of Androzani yet (don't see a review up for it), but for me, I felt that Davison finally clicked with me. Really solid story, shame it took until his last one to connect with me. Definitely worth watching (if you haven't already) to hopefully see the Fifth Doctor in a better context.
I personally love the fifth doctor, (which of fine obviously, since we all have differing opinions) but I do have a suggestion. On one of the surveys, put a high note on the ‘Caves of Androzani’. That episode did make the fifth doctor a hell of a lot better for me.
Do you think the Doctor is a bit of an asshole at the beginning of 'Time Flight'? Tegan suggests a way they could save Adric, and he just shuts her and Nyssa down.
I usually agree when you say "I don't know" You're right. Spoilers from a show aired decades ago? Don't worry about it.
A few companions had died before Adric but very few.
Two companions had died before Adric. Sarah Kingdom and Catarina
Please, please watch Caves of Androzani, I swear you will love it!
About the adric thing: i honestly think he is fine. (He could be a lot more worse! He could be ben! The first/second doctor's companion)
Yes Two Companions had died before this Katrina Sarah Kingdom
An old favourite of mine - I can probably quote this word-for-word xD That first cliffhanger is un-fucking-beatable
I recently watched this with the blu ray realese, what a coincidence.
Adric is interesting for me because he is an early case of how SciFi treats mathematician characters. From the stories, he clearly a talented mathematician. He only briefly talks to the people on Logopolis but learns how to do block-transfer calculations (maths that change physical reality). This is something that neither the Master or the Doctor can do, but Adric can. He can also fly the Tardis. The death is similar to the legend about Archimedes (see wikipedia for that). A lot of Adric's character reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang theory (or Wesley Crusher); I don't like either of those. With Adric the writing wasn't always good but at least they pointed to some accomplishments to back up his attitude as noted above. (A funny instance of his attitude from 4 to Doomsday "Teagan: We need to get home or I will lose my job. Adric: you should learn more maths and you can get a better job.") Characters like Hari Seldon (Foundation) or Avon (Blake's 7) do a lot better at treating mathematician types as serious people. Adric's obsession with solving the puzzle at the end was authentic though.
im big into that super maths reality altering power he gains !
Davidson's Kicked Puppy look is his claim to fame. And post Baker they were trying to make him as different as possible.
Even in the modern era, whenever clear plastic appears in DW, we know something serious is about to go down.
Didn't Tennant say Davison was his favourite Doctor?
_Well..._ You can't insult family.
Robin Hislop what if Doctor Who goes on another lengthy hiatus and when it returns the 15th Doctor becomes Tennant’s son (or daughter) in law?
@@sailorgallifrey1365 Whoception O_O
I never really paid much attention to the personal lives of the cast. What a charming coincidence.
I think there were other companions who died before Adric but it was back in the first doctor's time and those particular episodes were some of the lost ones.
So, Nathaniel, Adric's not the earliest companion death but he's the earliest one a fan like you or I could be expected to see.
I mean, unless you're somehow over sixty. In which case, I need to know your secret!
This story had 7 year gap either side for cyber men stories
Attack of the Cybermen came out 3 years after this. The Cybermen were also heavily featured in The Five Doctors a year & a half after Earthshock.
I think that's "Revenge of the Cybermen" which aired in 1975 and was the first since "The Invasion" in 1968. This is the one 7 years on after that. I think it's fair to say NuWho recycles the classic era villains much more than the classic era did!
Calvin and Joel you're both right😶I was thinking of TB's cyber adventure
13:47 to 14:17 haha thank you! Yeah the show has always been like that. All these ppl hating on series 11.
I don’t know if I like Tegan or Janet Fielding more
Huh. Interesting that you thought back to the Tomb of the Cybermen when you saw them breaking out of plastic. I instantly thought back to the Invasion of the Cybermen :P But I guess it has to be a callback to the Tomb because it came much earlier.