Zoom B1X four SansAmp vs. Darkglass emulation test (3-coil ceramic EBMM Stingray5)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- This is a series of samples using the Zoom B1X four multi-effects and my 2003 Stingray5, trying both the SansAmp and Darkglass emulations. Bass EQ is flat and it's been recorded directly from the B1X four to a Zoom R24 multitrack recorder. All 4 patches used (clean and crunch for each preamp) are structured PREAMP-OPT.CMP-ZNR.
What you're hearing is:
1) Fingerstyle SansAmp "clean" (what I use as clean)
2) Fingerstyle Darkglass "clean"
3) Fingerstyle SansAmp crunch
4) Fingerstyle SansAmp crunch
5) Drop D picked SansAmp crunch
6) Drop D picked SansAmp crunch
Same phrase on each pair of samples for you to compare. I got the gadget yesterday. I've yet to make it sound as good as my MS-60B's SansAmp patches but it's all in there for me to perfect my B1X four tones with use. I (and the ones around my musical endeavors) have never ceased to be amazed by the MS-60B since I got it in 2015. The only thing that resulted tricky to discover was how to remove an effect from the chain (not just turn it off) until I discovered there's a bypass "pedal" (=removal). I had always used the 166 comp. emulation on the MS-60B, I'm using the optical compressor emulation on the B1X four, it was the first that showed up, and just worked. Will still check the other ones, mostly multi-band, to see what's new. Overall nice pedal. Zoom has kept me away from anything else (and people I've worked with happy) since I discarded a Boss GT-6B in favor of a Zoom 708II 15 years ago. Simply no need to spend more, there's no sound you can't tweak out of this thing. I just hope there's some firmware update along the line which will elevate the number of available effects ("just" 60, but my MS-60B went up to 142 with the last and only AFAIK firmware update, I think back in 2017).
Even tho' I tried for all the patches to "fill the same space" as per volume and EQ, I think the crunchy SansAmp patch sounds opaque (still you can hear the character change). Didn't feel like that at all in the amp I used to create the patches. I program my patches so that they sound perfect with all EQ flat in the old trusty Peavey TKO-75 I have home, my "reference amp". If it's OK there I hardly ever have to tweak EQ much live, no matter the amp. After recording these samples I played more with the DarkPre. I think it lacks in 2 depts: it's not thick enough and it's boxy, has an annoying resonance around 180hz. Had to take care of this by using 2 instances of the BassPEQ (one to boost 100hz@Q=1.5, the other to attenuate 180hz@Q=2) so fat perception is comparable to that of the BassDRV preamp. I've tried the B7K a couple of times and was expecting it to be flatter than a SansAmp (less scooped) and thinner, but this emulation is too boxy, a pity as the timbrical character of the overdrive grit is pretty spot on. A pity the BassPEQ in the B1X four is single band, it's 2 band in the MS-60B, I could have gotten away with using just one pedal slot.
UPDATE: I ditched this B1X Four after months of A/Bing it with my MS-60B. Sounds real boxy, small in comparison, and overal noisier (had appreciated this whenever I've tried B3ns but hadn't had the oportunity to A/B). Can be made to sound good but at the expense of pedal slots for PEQ and ZNR (to make it worse, now the PEQ is 1-band whereas it was 2-band in the previous gen). Staying with my MS-60B/B2/G3/G1Xon until next Zoom generation comes out, just passing on the Fours and B3n. All info in this TalkBass thread... www.talkbass.c...
One thing you'd normally miss from the B3n/Four generation is a HPF, but there is indeed a HPF int he previous gen too, the "depth" parameter of the AC BS PRE (Fishman) emulation. Also no Darkglass emulation in previous gen. I've put up a GUMA-Drive (B3K clone) for that, and after some A/B tweaking I could almost nail the B3K tone with the BA SQUEAK (blendable RAT) emulation. More info, patch data and tone comparison here... www.talkbass.c...
In case you think my 'ray sound weird, IT DOES, you're hearing it in single coil mode, BUT mine are modded so that you can select which coil makes the sound (from factory it's just the bridge side one). This is the neck side coil, my fave (my second fave and the one I'd used forever before the mod is the factory single coil tone). Details on the mod (and yet some more Rush licks) here... • Full pickup flexibilit...
![The Ultimate Bass Multi-Effect Pedal For Under $100?! - Zoom B1 Four [Demo]](/img/n.gif)
Great Vid, Loved the Rush beginning.....
can I copy these patches bruh?
Sure, just follow this link to a TalkBass post with the FX and parameters for these patches...
www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-b1-four-patch-ideas.1405716/page-13#post-24006579
@@bigoldnoob Thanks a lot man! Big help. Appreciated much! :) Can you also do a FLEA tone?
What's the name of sansamp effect in menu? I can't find it 😄 or I can't remember I saw it there
It's called "BassDRV".
🕶🔥
Hey question. So can this sound similar if I run the BX1 Four through my Aguilar Tone Hammer 500? I wanna use this as a price-friendly device to use a compressor, chorus and the Sansamp. Or will my Tone Hammer 500 color the sound too much and make it useless?
Should work, I've used my MS-60B with a TH amp several times, no problem, but I'm not a fan of the TH kinda' overdrive (and no blend is a deal breaker) so in those occasions I'd leave the TH clean and run my own tone in it. Months after this video I ditched the B1XFour and kept with the previous gen. Both the Fours and the B3n sound boxy and noisier in comparison. Not that they can't be made to sound OK, but it requires additional EQ and ZNR every time for it to sound as full and quiet as my MS-60B, B3 or G1Xon (with tuned firmware to be virtually a G1Xon/B1Xon compendium).
@@bigoldnoob My man thanks a lot for the overview! I have some questions still if you don't mind.
So I'm definitely looking for a cheap alternative to run a compressor, chorys and a SanSamp (or a decent drive pedal). Looking at the price difference, the B1X Four and the MS are basically in the same range. From my perspective, I see the MS-60B being not as user friendly as the B1X Four. But you've got me thinking about the quality of the sound. I absolutely don't want to deal with annoying noise. I used to own the BOSS GT-1B and it was absolutely garbage when it came to sound quality. Granted I was running it through an FRFR Speaker and not my Tone Hammer 500. What makes the B1X Four sound boxy?
Also, does the MS-60B allow for at least 2-3 effects at the same time? Thanks a lot in advance
@@SpectorEuro4 MS-60B can use 4 FX at the same time. Now, if you get an MS-50G (guitar model, 6 FX at the same time) there's a tool that can customize the firmware to have any pedal you want in there, including those from the MS-60B. That's what I'd do, the option just didn't exist back when I got my MS-60B. This is a "compedium" page I've set up about it andresdemarco.info/ZOOMFIRMWARE/
Now, the MultiStomp models are OK for a fix tone or to occasionally cycle thru' a short set of patches. If you need to go up/down patches my advice is get a B1on or B1Xon (if you want expression pedal functionality). It's 5 effects at the same time (still enough for me), you have a looper too, and those can be had for cheap used (I've got a G1Xon ,firmware tuned with all bass relevant in the B1Xon, that I got used for 35€, power supply included). Those sound exactly like the MS-60B and B3 (also own one, and a G3 too, just can't edit the firmware on these), effects are the same, same parameters, same tone.
Boxy means just that, it appears to sound from a small mid/lo-mid focused speaker. The boxiness in the B1Xfour/B3n is an annoying peak wround 180hz, combined with a narrow response (at least to the ear, no lows, no treble, just mids and that 180hz bump). This might not be evident when trying them on their own, but it's flagrant when A/Bing with a previous gen. model as I did. A fellow BassChatter put up some sound comparison (equal parameters). Not the tones I'd use, but you can definitely tell the old gen. sounds more full... www.basschat.co.uk/topic/215665-zoom-ms60-b/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-4286593
BTW, I ditched a Boss GT-6B back in about 2005 (noisy and no good tones at all). A Zoom 708II replaced without a sweat.
@@bigoldnoob thanks a lot! You've helped a ton. I've decided to save up and get the real BDDI, a decent compressor and perhaps a chorus later on. The multi-fx pedals are amazing! I actually had the chance to try the MS-60B today (friend owned it), and to me it lack a lot of "personality". I had a horrible, HORRIBLE experience with the BOSS GT-1B, so perhaps that experience brainwashed my brain into thinking that dedicated pedals are better. It didn't sound bad at all, but when I turned the MS off, and ran my TH500 alone, I could feel a huge difference in how the sound filled the room. I think it's the cab simulation that is just absolutely garbage across different devices because the amp sims are decent. But ultimately after playing with my TH500 for a good time now, amp sim just doesn't convince me fully.
I can see myself using the MS-60B for discovering effects I might wanna use, but I don't think it satisfies my bass tone needs.
Now I understand I'm comparing a $800 amp head with a $120 "all-in-one" device. I think for the price it's a steal.
@@SpectorEuro4 personality is in you ;-) (I think judging by browsing to pre-made patches is a mistake). The approach should be "develoo your tone from the ground up". I luckily happen to sound the same with either my SansAmp RBI or any Zoom emulation, A/Bed for precision. BUT, what might not be for you is TWEAKING (multiFX need a lot of that, not for everybody) so in that case you're better fit for single pedals, for sure. Just an example, I recently finished up building a GUMA-Drive pedal (Darkglass B3K clone)... th-cam.com/video/2JzqiNRoG1E/w-d-xo.html After a few days with it I was totally able to replicate its tone in my G1Xon (took about an hour of tweaking), using the closest sounding to a CMOS distortion I had in there (blendable RAT emulation). This is with a 89€ cheap parts Jazz Bass...
This is the original GUMA-Drive... andresdemarco.info/testguma.mp3
This is the G1Xon hacking it... andresdemarco.info/testgumafake.mp3
You can only tell one from the other when A/Bing side by side, at first listen you'd get 100% fooled. It's totally OK not to be willing to tweak and browse thru' menus. The big advantage for me of carrying my whole tone in a box (OD, EQ, COMPRESSION) is not having to care much about what amp I use, even my own, since any clean loud amp can do (a TH isn't any of that, sorry, not a fan at all, always sounds small to me, its tone shaping is sketchy, I don't like its overdrive tone at all, and the lack of a blend makes it useless to me). My paradigm is to carry my tone in a box and sound thru' whatever amp there is (mine or otherwise). That's why I've always owned just Peavey or Hartke amps, cheap, clean, loud, reliable and with enough lowend authority, and specifically MY TONE IS NOT DEPENDENT ON IT, I get my tone from somewhere else. Saves a big part of the hassle in most situations, I already have my tone set up, only use the given amp to amplify, and its tone shaping to adapt to the room and other conditions.
Please share patch sound Muse hysteria 🙏
Yep, I can work that out. I'll drop by here and let you know when I do it. Will probably involve compression and some fuzzy distortion with dry signal blended in. You can check this TalkBass link in the meantime (I'll probably start tweaking from what this guy suggests)... www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-b1-four-patch-ideas.1405716/page-7#post-23318316
@@bigoldnoob tq Sir 🙏🙏
@@ladosbassistmalaya I've done my own version of that tone, adopting some variations. I've stuck to the NYCMuff and 160Comp but didn't get along well with the amp and cab models the guy chose, so I went BassDRV (I prefer it over almost any other thing to dial in omnipresent fatness). Besides there's some synthy thing going on in that tone so I added some Z-Syn too (mind the guitar intro to "A devil in a midnight mass" by Billy Talent, but on this one fuzz and synth are less integrated/more distinguishable from each other) and a "binary" noise reduction. This is what I came up with. Please beware that this is just "in the ballpark", I'm sure both the fuzz and synth blends/tones AND the EQ in the BassDRV might need adjustment depending on your particular bass & amp. Also the compressor is used more like a limiter, as the fuzz and "infinite decay" synth really need some constant pushing to get that "regularly open" consistent tone. This was tested with the same Stingray5 in my video which, contrary to popular belief, is no high gain bass by any means (after 2 decades of dealing with SR5s I'm sure your regular P or Jazz kicks a preamp harder). So if it sounds too in-your-face first try you could probably lower the output on your instrument, see if it works better at some point, then adjust gains in the chain accordingly so you can have your bass maxed again.
BassDRV: Bass=60, Treble=50, PRSNC=40, Blend=70, Gain=50, Vol=40, mids flat
160Comp: THRSH=-20, Ratio=10, Knee=HARD, VOL=80
NYCMuff: SUSTN=50, Tone=55, BAL=30,VOL=60
Z-Syn: FREQ=10, Range=0, Decay=100, RESO=10, Wave=SQR, Tone=5, BAL=30, VOL=80
ZNR: DETCT=GTRIN, Depth=100, THRSH=100, Decay=0
Hope it helps.
Can you tell me the tab of the fifth phrase?
So sorry, hadn't seen your comment :-( Here's a link to the tab, measure by measure. First one repeats 3 times. andresdemarco.info/verbo_tab.txt
The song is from Sinaia (a metal band from Madrid I sub for occasionally) and the song is called "Verbo". This is a link to that section of the song... th-cam.com/video/ONZjaNZ0fpA/w-d-xo.html
Too bad we cant see you actually playing through the pedal and describing which is which
Nice sound on this pedal
But is it include the amplifier simulator?
No amp model in these chains really, but preamps (B7K or SansAmp). This is how I enter either an amp or the audio interface for recording. Pretty "mastered". My tone is usually set so that the EQ on my amps remain flat. I use the amp's EQ just to adapt to any given room, but my pre-baked tone comes with me anywhere inside any of my Zoom gadgets (nowadays MS-60B, B3 or G1Xon -custom firmware to have anything bass relevant-). Sound guys love it, full and compressed. Still, as the video description makes clear, I much prefer any of those to this Four, which is long gone for the reasons stated there.
@@bigoldnoob sounds really not dissapoint me,its good,after all its cheap
nice demo
@@ariel.s99 don't get me wrong, it can be made to sound real nice, just not that naturally as the previous gen. Also some moves are plain wrong IME, as making the para-EQ FX single band, when in the previous gen it's 2 band. A waste of FX slots if you need to take out the boxiness (to sound as fat and rich) and noise. Here's a demo of another of my basses thru' the B1X Four (clean and driven SansAmp emulation + compression), as you can see it's real pleasant... th-cam.com/video/4U7wUAqbZtY/w-d-xo.html It just took all 5 slots for what I'd do with just 2 slots in my B3, MS-60B or G1Xon (3 slots if I'm too driven and happen to need noise reduction). If I were to get some of the small ones (Four/XFour), having been there, I'd get a B1on/Xon, same 5 slots, much better sounding. Only 2 cons you could complain about is the lack of a hi-pass filter and Darkglass emulations on the previous gen. There's workarounds for both. The ACBS Pre model (Fishman emulation) has a DEEP parameter that's indeed a HPF. Also, you can do a very convincing Darkglass impersonation with the BA SQUEAK emulation (basically a blendable RAT). Been there also, here's how it sounds A/Bed with a GUMA Drive (B3K clone)... th-cam.com/video/-pZvwlJLHXk/w-d-xo.html
Its amazing sound. How u setting this sound? Thank u
The 4 patches I'm using here are described in this TalkBass post...
www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-b1-four-patch-ideas.1405716/page-13#post-24006579
Unfortunately I let go of my B1X Four. I know I could make it sound good, but not as good as my previous generation gear (MS-60B, now also added a B3 and a G1Xon, deep into firmware modding too, so I have both guitar and bass effects mixed in some of them). Thing is the Four/B3n gen is noisier and notabley BOXY in comparison. Defeats the purpose of the 5 position slots if I have to always use noise reduction (not only that, the PEQ effect was 2-band befor and now it's single band, that kills another pedal slot too, very necessary to combat boxyness and lack of lowend authority). A/Bing them was frustratingly evident (sorry, don't have recorded evidence, but this you hear in this clip took LOTS of EQ and ZNR, and still sounds thin, when I get a much fuller tone almost flat -no extra EQ besides that of the SansAmp effect, bass control still flat there-). Also gain structure worked in a funny way. I mean, raising a pedal's output didn't affect gain on the next one as expected (it's 100% transparent in the B3/MS-60B/B1on/Xon generation). I've discussed the issue in a couple forums too...
www.talkbass.com/threads/new-zoom-b1x-four-sounds-several-levels-of-dead-noisy-compared-to-ms-60b.1472142/
www.basschat.co.uk/topic/215665-zoom-ms60-b/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-4276726
Guess I'll wait for the next generation (avid Zoom fanboy here still).
Thank you. Its amazing. But i see there a "Dualcomp" what is it? Because i dont have this selection 🤷🏻♂️ thank you
@@HEGO68 Sorry for the delay, hadn't seen your answer. I'm not using the dual comp (EBS multicomp emulation IIRC). I'm using the 160comp almost exclusively, with the BlackOpt compressor (Apex Punch Factory emulation AFAIK) being the only exception.
If you create a effect, can you create then a wah wah effect?
I use these same patches and add BassA-Wah or A-Filter, blending gently (50% wet or less). There's a great thread in TalkBass where people share MANY patches. There's a great search function in case you want to go deeper. www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-b1-four-patch-ideas.1405716/
@@bigoldnoob Okay thx
Video of the settings would be nice
Check this TalkBass post, there's the settings for these 4 patches...
www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-b1-four-patch-ideas.1405716/page-13#post-24006579
Circumstances!!!