"I'm going to stop counting, actually..." THAT is why it's called 'Numbers.' What else were they going to call it? Punishments of God? Can't do that, because there are a lot of punishments throughout the bible. Another great bible study.
So your critique is "Genocide = Bad" ergo "Bible = Bad" ??? The Bible is a book about evil addressed to a world enamored with evil. Are you suggesting evil should be portrayed in a more kind and gentle manner? A darkness that is a bit brighter perhaps?... a more understandable irrationality, negation that is not quite so vacuous, and a reality devoid of consequence?
@@andrewferg8737 I think (at least with respect to your comment) that Brandon was saying "Genocide = bad," God commands genocide, ergo "God = bad." The part about the bible was more like "Bible = Unreliable." Really, he's just letting the bible speak for itself. The contradictions and evil god part are just part of what the bible says. He's done the plain reading that Christians avoid, and these videos are simple summaries of the books.
@@alanhyland5697 "God commands genocide" --- In classical theology, the referent for the term "God" is existence in and of itself. The ineffable Mosaic Hebrew theonym יהוה (YHWH) is derived from the root verb hayah meaning "to be." That is, YHWH means existence in and of itself. It is existence in and of itself which "commands" that reality which we experience as consequence. Are you suggesting a reality devoid of consequence? Now, the Canaanites practiced child sacrifice and were blotted out of history. Imperial Japan worshipped its emperor and murdered ten million people. It too was blotted out and its victims cheered as it burned. Evil and consequence are an ugly business. What expectations might our society have then when 200, 000 children are sacrificed each day to the gods of prosperity and progress? "Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever" (Thomas Jefferson) "And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you" (Leviticus 18)
Defending the Midianites? It's a bit anachronistic to defend the child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality of a "Mad Max" Bronze Aged warrior society, don't you think? Easy for you though, as you don't have to deal with such lawlessness. Quick call to 911 and you're all good. Evil is ugly. Justice can be ugly too.
That passage in Numbers about the Midianite women -- and keeping the virgin girls for your own use -- was what cured me of looking to the Bible for any kind of guidance. This was a little less than a year before I stopped believing in Christianity. I was desperate for some kind of communication and guidance from God, so I tried to prayerfully read my Bible, as all my Christian friends advised. I happened to open it to that page. I was so deeply shocked. Although it didn't in itself shatter my faith, it demonstrated beyond any argument that the Bible could not be relied upon even to say something moral and good, never mind something helpful to someone living in the modern age.
Love the observation that God had Israel conquer rather than just speaking a Promised Land into existence just for Israel like a new Garden of Eden. The "bless the land" comment was spot on.
I've heard lots of atheists talk about the genocide and taking of the virgins as spoils in numbers, but the way you applied it to you and your family was gut wrenching. Really put it in to perspective like no one else. Love your videos and really glad you are on TH-cam.
Much of the tyranny and crimes of the Bible “stories” if you put it to your family or yourself will really bring to life the tyranny, lack of “free will” and atrocities of a psychotic “god”
I know more of the Bible as an atheist then I ever did as a Christian, weird how interested I became in reading it when I no longer had to find a way to explain away the mind-numbing cognitive dissonance that resulted from its actual contents.
@@stimlordI don’t know how valid this is but over the last year I discovered two major ways of dealing with the Bible. I’m sure they can and are intermingled. That’s either devotional or more on the scholarly end of things. Having left christianity some 40+ years ago, I never gave it any thought. But I was definitely in the devotional, getting a personal word from god camp. Had I heard this back then, I would have been out 15 years earlier. But I’m with you, I know more now than ever.
@@Larry30102 Yeah, that's a great point It's either consuming the contents of the bible in an effort to find something that applies to you (which most devotionals seem to do) or looking at it while detached from it. The latter makes it very clear very quickly that the whole thing is a dumpsterfire, but the former is so pushed onto us as the purpose for the bible that it's hard to not do it.
Before I deconstructed, I would read this book and think "if these people, who see god work in a physical way, can fail to follow god, what hope do I have?" Then I would justify this with the new testament. So I would feel hopeless and then force myself to feel hope. Also, one of the nails in my faith's coffin is that I shouldn't have to to say "you don't understand, it was just the time back then" when you are talking about a "timeless" and "unchanging" god. If slavery was always wrong, then god should have said that since the beginning. Is he not powerful enough to convince ancient people not to enslave people? Did he change his mind again? How does an unchanging being change his mind so much? And again, why does small little me have to justify god's actions? Shouldn't he be able to justify himself?
Yes! I, too, agree with all you said! Another way that I don’t agree with “it was the time back then,” was the mistreatment and dehumanization of women, even down to Mary, mother of Jesus. Impregnated against her will, and at 13/14 years old at that! Phew! Talk about messed up
@@MindShift-Brandon "Oh man. That's really kind. Thank you!"--- Oh man. You just saved us from Bronze Age barbarians. I wish it didn't have to come to that. But that's so kind of you. Thank you.
What happens to the “chosen people” in the Bible convinced me to not live chosen, to rely on my own decisions and actions. Things have worked out well for me and I don’t have to live with the fear of god’s punishment for unknown reasons. Thanks for you work!
I agree. Numbers is not as boring as it sounds, in fact it is actually one of the most interesting and entertaining books in the whole Bible. The tabernacle intro was kinda boring, but the road trip arc is glorious. This book was originally called “Banibar” or “In the Wilderness” and that name would be much more entertaining than new name
When you apply a secular, nonbeliever's analysis of the man made Bible stories, the glaring contradictions stand out and the miracles disappear. Funny how that works.
26:15 i’m glad you put this into perspective. christians are often encouraged to view bible stories from the perspective of the victors. only recently did i start to look at them from the perspective of the people they were savaging. these were likely regular people, no more or less moral than anyone else at the time, living their lives when this desert-dwelling band of marauders comes and kills everyone, takes their stuff, and calls it “good” because their god said to do it. we’re encouraged to think that they had to be so wicked if god wanted them wiped out like that, but let’s be real: victorious warmongers commonly paint their victims as “evil” and “deserving of it”. this is a completely pedestrian idea. what’s extraordinary is the concept of a people group being so evil that the all-knowing sky-being that only talks to this one group of people (specifically only certain people from this one group of people) wanted them removed from the face of the planet through violence, pillaging, and plundering.
@@spencerngene5546Yes. So in the case of Moses God was not against mixed marriages. Weird that. It almost seems that God was inconsistent at times. As if he made arguments of opportunity to kill random people 😅
I like the example of “what if it was your kids” because those with empathy will realize “hey you’re right that’s really bad” and those without will be left, likely not even thinking “are we the bad guys?” Due to blind obedience and hatred of the “out group”
As an ex-xian I can’t say that I spent that much time in Numbers. This really blew the top off. Big thanks for the great lesson. Keep up the strong work!
It’s crazy how the holy book written by Israelites tells us that the Israelites are the chosen people and everyone around them should just get out of their way or die. What a crazy coincidence
As horrifying as Numbers is the one thing I have to keep remembering is that it is in reality a human-made myth. However in my study of historical events in ancient history there were plenty of atrocities committed by real people against other real people. 😊
Yes for sure. The sad part is its the talking donkeys and fire from heaven that are the myths. The brutality did happen and has been traditionally and historically carried out because of these religious dogmas.
WELL SAID. Yeah there is no song and dance to justify god's behavior in this bible study group. I also always had trouble with people saying there was a "new covenant" revealed to us in the New Testament. My thoughts about that were WTF???? Did this god of the old testament go find a god psychologist to talk to or find some god Prozac to take?? How did he change from evil.? How would dumping a son on earth change his mental process? Numbers and other books has always been a stumbling block for me in accepting the "new Covenant" or having it make sense. How did god change is personality?? He was an ass in the old testament. Was he saved by some higher god or what?? It makes no sense to me at all. OK OK I will stop
Numbers 5 also has the nice bit about if a man suspects his wife’s pregnancy is the result of her having sex with someone else, take her to the priests for an abortion!
i think one of the sickest parts is his games with Baalam. I'm gonna start doing a bible story series where I just really focus in on these stories, 1 at time. The few vereses on what hes doing with Baalam are just insane.
Oh Branden your Bible studies are much more fun than any I did in Sunday school! (interesting how atheists can give better Bible studies than Christians) And thank you for putting to rest any debate on the meaning of Numbers 31 because really there is no debate to be had.
I have never heard any good arguments against it. Just bad justifications of how evil the other tribes were, lol nope! that does not work! Thank you for the kind words and feedback. Glad you are digging the show!
@@MindShift-Brandon "interesting how atheists can give better Bible studies than Christians" --- "And Absalom would add, If only someone would appoint me judge in the land, then everyone with a grievance or dispute could come to me, and I would give him justice.... In this way he stole the hearts of the men of Israel" (2 Samuel 15)
I can only imagine if God was real, God could have inspired a book that said you are all to get along. Have no slaves. Stop killing each other. Make peace not war. Do not rape mame or abuse. Be kind to your children. Help each other. Be gentle to animals. Be good custodians to the planet........
I love how I’m getting Jim Caviezel and a dramatized Jesus by a Christian Netflix clone as ads before this video. Yes, I will gladly make you pay MindShift.
About a week ago I decided to do something that I never thought I’d do again, which is to read the Bible (NIV). This time though I’m highlighting and making notes on the character of Yahweh and though I’m only about halfway through Numbers, I’m absolutely appalled at what I’m reading. How did I never see this before?
Many parallels to the Odyssey! They were so close, but were then off course again and the giants are the two that really catch my attention. Every culture is influenced by those around them. We readily acknowledge this with technology, the arts, fashion, economically and socially why is acknowledging this so hard with religion? Why do we need to believe ours is different, special or unique in some way? I came of age during “The British Invasion”, the Beatles, mod fashion, pop art…influence happens!
Come on, man! They forgot to pack their charcoal grilles when they bugged out of Egypt. Besides, they had all that Manna...Bamanna Bread, Mannaburgers, Manna-coti...Like the old song "Manna in the morning, Manna in the evening, Manna at supper time..."
When i started to question, the book of Numbers was the book that made say yep this isn’t a loving being. And the only reason I believe is because i was indoctrinated to believe it when i was a child.
That ending when you discussed Numbers 31 was incredibly moving. Your channel is superb and I am so glad I found it. Can't wait to see upcoming content and hope you get a ton more subscribers.
Just the other day I had a comment conversation with a Christian. When I asked him to demonstrate the existence of his god in reality in real-time his response: No one could possibly know god fully because he's outside of time. It's like they completely forgot about all of the stories, they believe to be true, of the god character talking to people. They can't keep their story straight. The rest of the conversation didn't go well for him.
Yeah, Numbers 31 is a big one for me. I've had some people try to argue that sometimes the Bible just records things without fully condoning them. And sure, it's _technically_ Moses who gives the execution command here. But God _does_ speak in this passage, beyond just commanding the whole war at the start. And what does he say? Does he denounce Moses for his heinous crime or even just chastise him for overzealousness? No. He says, "Here's how you should divvy up the plunder, both man and beast. Make sure that I get a cut, you can give it to Eleazer on my behalf." And so Eleazer personally gets 32 of the virgin girls (as well as dozens of cows and donkeys and hundreds of sheep). If God _did_ have something to say about the slaughter, surely he could've said it here instead. And I can here the counterargument that maybe he did and it just wasn't recorded. But if _that_ wasn't recorded and the banal matter of plunder division _was,_ then how is this book _at all_ a reliable account after such a lie of omission? So no. The idea that God didn't condone this doesn’t work. The _only_ way you can salvage that claim is to reject Biblical inerrancy. And frankly, I see no way that this could even be _vaguely_ "inspired."
I tried to reconcile the Midianite story; it's a terrible way to live. I was introduced to the bible after childhood trauma, and had read through it several times before becoming saved around 4th grade. Having to believe the God who "saved" me was the same God in the Old Testament made me feel terrible and confused. My lack of empathy toward any out-group as an adult was among the consequences of having to stuff the mental mind fuck of something that isn't supposed to make sense.
excellent overview! i've had a friend's friend debating me for about 6 weeks now, and every day I show him 10 more things in the Bible he didn't know it was in there that he can't really explain away, so then he changes the subject and then on the new subject I have 10 more questions that stump him so it's kind of comical but it's amazing how indoctrinated someone can be, because he is a really bright guy but he can't see what is clear as day, right in his face. last week I brought up many of those issues you mentioned in Numbers and the Leviticus purity rituals that's like witchcraft etc. then the other day I thought of more stuff to add to Genesis (in reference to the supposed angels desiring human women, ) it would mean these spiritual beings are not only sinning by lusting in heaven (which I've went through with him before ) but it means they're getting horny without hormones or a body or blood or a penis lol) was the new part I thought about when we were talking and what makes them male or female if their if they have no anatomy (that's a little off-topic but that's where our conversation went when discussing the topic) and the funny thing is the more you think about any of the books the more problems you find in them.. So keep up the great work
Thank you very much! The whole concept of the Nephilim and the issues that would arise with them doesnt help christians at all lol. Its all just so crazy!
@@MindShift-Brandon yeah, but what is funny is when you start telling them that archaeologist have dug up many many places in the southern Levant and there are no Giants because then they go straight to conspiratorial crazy stuff god made them disappear, the government is hiding them from us, etc so it's kind of a fun little thing for me lol
@@kenaterphotography4624I'm just wondering why their god made angels able to procreate with humans in the first place. Why is it ONLY human women that give birth to nephilim and not angel women? (Again placing blame on women). Why not make those specific women infertile as he often did? Makes no sense with even a tiny bit of critical thinking.
@@kenaterphotography4624 The idea that Nephilim were other human subraces like Neanderthals has been proposed. And modern humans interbred with them in Europe as well. Crazy to think of. We need some fantasy stories about that.
Love the secular Bible studies and I'm going through them one by one till I catch up with you! This is a great service. Thanks to my friend who let me know about your channel two months ago. Thank you, Brandon!
i've always thought that the Israelites got a bad rap for complaining about no food and water. They were in a DESERT for crying out loud. Their children were hungry and thirsty. But God doesn't seem to care, he just leads them on. Sort of like being on a long car trip and you're hungry and tired and you need to use the restroom but Dad won't stop, and when you say hey, I'm REALLY hungry, hey I REALLY need to go NOW, he gets all pissed off and finally pulls off the road but he's not doing it out of concern for you he's doing it just to shut you up. Come to think of it didn't Jesus have a parable about a widow and an unjust judge that was like that? It seems to me that God is the unreasonable father here. Kid wants to know when are we going to stop and eat, when are we going to get to use the restroom. I think most people would say well of course, you can't expect a kid to go indefinitely without being able to do either. Kids have needs, they're not like adults. Well, in this story, the Israelites don't know where their next meal is coming from. They don't know where their next drink is coming from. All they see is desert, desert, desert. And they remind Moses, hey, we aren't superhuman, our kids aren't superhuman. We need to eat and drink (and if you've ever spent time in a desert area, especially in summer, you know how important it is to stay hydrated). But when Moses relays this message to God, God gets upset. There's no, you're right, these people need food and water, I should have seen to it before. No, it's they want food, I'll give them food. Manna's not good enough, they want meat? I'll give them meat, so much that they'll get sick of it. As fir water, well, you struck the rock one too many times. Too bad, no Promised Land for you. Maybe your kids will make it. If not, I've got a whole eternity of time . . .
Thanks for another informative vid, Brandon. I wasn't aware of all the horror in the book of Numbers. Here's something that's really been bothering me lately: Christans need an army of know-it-all scholars to explain away the myriad of "inconvenient" texts in the Bible, and confidently tell you the passages don't mean what they say they mean. When studying to be a paralegal years ago I came across the "reasonable person" test in law practice. What would a reasonable person do or say, or think, when presented with a certain set of circumstances or doctrines? When the Bible chapters were written, most of the world was illiterate and uneducated. So, when the average peasant or day laborer heard the words: "slaugther all the midianites" he took it to means just what it says. He didn't think there was a cryptic or hifalutin "explaination of the text to explain what God REALLY intended by the passage. I'm sick and tired of all the apologists, presumably wise and definitely condescending, telling the faithful that the passages in the bible condoning genocide, condoning rape, condoning slavery, don't really mean what they say they mean. I'm sure you know the big names in this motley crew. I'm done; thanks for reading.
I was once told it was a terrible mistake to let laymen read the Bible because they wouldn't understand it, and they'd use the awful passages to excuse everything. I think they relied on this. Those who could read were benefited by the atrocities, so they excused it in their minds. The problem is when you insist the book of atrocities is sacred and the direct word of god. People not only excused the atrocities, they didn't want the benefits to ever stop.
Well goodness. I thought I would find these lessons of little use, since I had already parted ways with seeing the Bible as a Rule for Life. But man, you have more than doubled down on this. Brandon, you are a masterful story teller, but look at the excellent script you have to deal with! Could Hollywood have a movie with more double dealing, deceit, and bad guys on the Sheriff's payroll?
So informative and useful! Always awesome to see some kind of deeper meaning behind the texts! I eventually stopped reading the bible after Numbers because it was basically grandma telling about her family tree. Let's see if you can help me get through that chapter and maybe I can pick the bible up again after that!
You overlooked the later part of chapter 31 where they are dividing up the "spoils" and the "Numbers" of those virgins was sixteen thousand; of which the Lord's tribute was thirty and two persons. This means they were sacrificed as per the law in Leviticus 27:29. So these lucky girls get to be burnt alive as a tribute after watching their families get slaughtered. How great his tender mercies, at least they didn't become permanent rape victims for the rest of their sad lives, like the rest of the captives. And the worst part is, Christians think their kids should read this book and live by it. This is what gets me angry.
I love this channel, you actually talk to people in the comments, for the first time I feel that I truly have someone on my side, thank you for your feedback, it really does mean alot.@@MindShift-Brandon
I thought this as well when I read it, but I believe that something else was done with them aside from burning. Assuming they followed what god had commanded prior, sacrifices specifically had to be ritually clean animals that chewed cud and had cloven hooves (or any of the various birds). They likely were made to do work related to the tent, whatever that may have been. Who really knows for sure though.
You may not "believe" that they were sacrificed, but the Levitical law is clear about what is to be done with persons that are given to the temple. Yes that's right persons, not animals.
I yearn for meaning and to find a map I can apply to my life. I have bounced in and out of the Christian mindset, but I still can’t make it make sense. What’s strange is I still pray. I pray to God directly and ask forgiveness, and not once have I felt chastised or have had anything bad manifest because I don’t go to church. In fact, I have been continuously blessed and am very aware when blessings occur. I try to do the right thing and I still attribute my life to God- which makes reading the Bible intensely difficult. I have a hunch that God is real, but we have bastardized he/she/its nature.
27:30 the Bible just has so much moral baggage. An atheist can look at the genocide and rape and say “that was wrong, Jesus taught a much better message” but the Christian who needs the Bible to be true to justify his belief in Jesus has to then deal with the violence ordered by god.
Just a note here, the playlist seems to be coming up backwards for me with the first episode being all the way at the bottom. That makes it a bit annoying to autoplay through the whole study. Other than that it's a good study that I'm finding very informative.
Would be cool to see you do a video on how Christians and Jews relate the story of Exodus to the state of Isreal in present day and the justifications used to condone the treatment of the Palestinians.
Why not just give your favourite people a spare bit of land somewhere? You could reserve it from the beginning and then just move them in. Such a lot of bloodshed doing it this way. (Not that it was done this way historically but...)
Agreed, I always thought that "Numbers" was a bit of a letdown as a book name. A lot of the book is interesting reading, even for those of us who are no longer 'believers'.
An interesting thing to think about, I watched a video about the historical act of Isrrael conquering the neighboring people groups, that might’ve been totally made up by the priests in the Babylonian exile time period to inspire people to be able to take back their homes after they were exiled. “We conquered everyone before, so we can do it again. I don’t know if this is true, but I just saw it and thought it would be interesting if true.
@@MindShift-Brandon Your description of Yahweh testing the people group by keeping them starving and demanding new things, but always being present and providing rewards like mana, reminds me of harsh animal training. This is almost identical to older, cruel methods to break an animal, and get it to act like you want. You can see some of this in how bears are trained to dance. It requires a rope or metal ring through the nose. The chain is pulled and twisted until the bear is in agony if it does not turn the way it is directed. Some are put on hot metal plates so they lift their paws. There is no Free Will in this. If these harsh methods were acceptable, than so is more benevolent intervention.
it's also interesting that is only a couple of hundred years ofter the bronze age collapse. I bet lots of people had bad times many of the great powers had gone or not what they were, the e
Have you heard of the theory that the Canaanites were remaining nephilim? I struggled for a long time with the slaughter that Israel committed in Canaan, and like so many I searched for ways to justify it. The idea was that some of the nephilim mentioned in genesis had survived after the flood (even though according to some theories the purpose of the flood was specifically to wipe out the nephilim) and that those surviving nephilim had begun living in Canaan and hence why they were referred to as giants (and if I am not mistaken this may be more than a theory but actually directly mentioned as some point in the Bible, but its been a while so I am fuzzy). It was a way of looking at this stuff through a lens of them killing demonic beings (which the nephilim are perceived by many to be) and at least at the time made it easier for me to digest. Of course, one need not take it so far. Many people are content in the idea of slaughter being ok and even justified when those on the receiving end are considered unrighteous. I have no doubt that this line of thinking has played a big part in many recent slaughters such as during colonial times. And it even persists in more subtle ways like how easily so many Christians can wave off systemic inequality as merited, thinking that sufferings itself is proof of ungodliness. It is actually quite a dangerous way to see the world. Glad I got out.
I have indeed, I think theres good reason to dismiss that, but like you alluded to, it would just be a whole new set of problem. Why didn't the flood work? If the Nephilim escaped that, then the account in Genesis is wrong, and also killing the rest of the world was even more unjust then. Then theres the issues with freewill if we get Nephlimin from bad angles coming down and raping human women. Also even if it some Canaaintites were, not all would have been. And they committed these horrendous acts on many other none Canan Tribes. lol just fails all around!
I got into it with a YT viewer about the ethnic cleansing, and he claimed the destruction was justified because of unrighteousness. So instead of just forgiving them and showing them where they were wrong, god just whacked them. God is love...occasionally.
Israelite and Canaanite DNA has been compared. They are the same. You can find hints of this in the Bible, where Canaanites knew and honored Yahweh as one of many. But the story of Israel is of one Canaanite tribe deciding they were set apart from the others, with their jealous god demanding all other gods be destroyed until only the jealous god's tribe was left, and rewriting history from this point of view.
It's hard to spend 40 years wandering around to find land that YOU LITERALLY ARE FROM. The Israelites, Canaanites, Jebusites, Hitites, Perizites, etc were ALL BROKEN TRIBES OF THE SAME PEOPLE. Fun fun.
Been reading the old testament again, and picturing Jesus himself as the one saying, doing, and commanding all of these things. It's been super interesting to read it from that perspective. After I finish each book, I'll watch your video on it to see what stood out to you, and what your thoughts are. Finished Numbers today, and watched this immediately after. Great overview, super dense book lol. On to Deuteronomy!
I didn't remember the part about God killing the dude for marrying the Midianite. ........ I think Moses' wife Zipporah was a Midianite, so that's a huge contradiction.
previously i mentioned being in a 52 week bible study group in the early oughts, and i actually did try to find the book we used, but i must have gotten rid of it, or it remains as hidden as god. i really wanted to do a comparison. youve got me on a mission now. i really want to see how they gloss over the troublesome aspects.
Imagine wanting to be a preacher and believing in the god you love and care for deeply. Then one day you wake up with the realization that god is completely faked for a human deceiver’s purpose. Now the preacher is for the Abrahamic believers to wake up too.
Numbers 31: If you go back to Genesis 25 verses 1-4, the Midianites were also descended from Abraham through his second wife Keturah. But apparently God's promise didn't apply to them or to any of Abraham's other sons whether by Keturah or Hagar or other unnamed women, only to Isaac. Seems strange that after spending so much time and detail regarding Sarah's inability to conceive and Abraham's taking matters into his own hand by having sex with Hagar (though with Sarah's urging), Abraham's remarriage after Sarah's death and the sons he had with this new wife gets only a handful of sentences, almost like an afterthought. We do know from the text that when Abraham died it was only Isaac and Ishmael who buried him, the other five sons having been sent away to other lands. Fast forward several centuries to the events of Numbers 31 and you have God telling one set of Abraham's descendants to wipe out another set of Abraham's descendants. Good thing it wasn't Ishmael's descendants living in the way of the Israelites!
wow that was a ride and a half. Like you I had major issues with chapter 31, that was so disgusting I almost stopped reading all together, and you are telling me its gonna get worse? hmmm, might need some time in a psych ward after this. also the story with the donkey pissed me off! why did not god just show himself to the dude right away? he cause that poor donkey needles wiping! so pointless. also so many times the whole relationship between god and moses felt like a mother begging a abusing husband to not hit his children anymore. Thank you for another good video and a good rundown, I think I need to read something else than the bible for a day or two cause this shit is kinda screwing with my head
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the murder of the Midianite woman and the Hebrew man was always explained to me (raised Catholic) as being a condemnation of mixed religious, not racial, marriages since the ancient Hebrews were often led to worship pagan gods by their foreign wives. Still horrific, but doesn't have the racist factor as presented here.
I can understand that. The verses in this story dont show that. The offense seems to just be the purity factor of mixing in non jewish blood. But theres other context to suggest what youre saying. Like you said. Either way.
@@MindShift-Brandon Sincerely, thank you for the response and for the videos. I've binged your content non stop since finding your channel, and I have to say that you have perhaps the most informative AND most civil YT channel on religion, which I know is no easy task. The way this story was presented to me was that a) there wasn't the concept of race in the ancient world as we have today. There were simply people who were a part of your tribe/nation and those who were outsiders, and b) just about every time Hebrew men worshipped pagan gods, it was due to the influence of foreign wives, so this was a warning against such unions. However, in the American South, the story was twisted as a tale against interracial unions. But I can see why one might interpret it either way. One thing I would be curious to hear is how you view the story of Peter's "vision" that kosher laws no longer applied. Do you think that Paul convinced him that the Jewish converts to Christianity market was tapped and they had to move on to the Gentiles? Or do you believe that he sincerely thought that Jesus overrode kosher laws? My bet is on the former since Peter insisted on these laws until Paul truly became confrontational. Just curious. Thank you again.
Happy Secular Bible Study Day! Numbers is an eventful book to say the least, looking forward to sharing this info with you all today!
"I'm going to stop counting, actually..."
THAT is why it's called 'Numbers.'
What else were they going to call it? Punishments of God? Can't do that, because there are a lot of punishments throughout the bible.
Another great bible study.
So your critique is "Genocide = Bad" ergo "Bible = Bad" ???
The Bible is a book about evil addressed to a world enamored with evil.
Are you suggesting evil should be portrayed in a more kind and gentle manner? A darkness that is a bit brighter perhaps?... a more understandable irrationality, negation that is not quite so vacuous, and a reality devoid of consequence?
@@andrewferg8737 I think (at least with respect to your comment) that Brandon was saying "Genocide = bad," God commands genocide, ergo "God = bad."
The part about the bible was more like "Bible = Unreliable."
Really, he's just letting the bible speak for itself. The contradictions and evil god part are just part of what the bible says. He's done the plain reading that Christians avoid, and these videos are simple summaries of the books.
@@alanhyland5697 "God commands genocide" ---
In classical theology, the referent for the term "God" is existence in and of itself. The ineffable Mosaic Hebrew theonym יהוה (YHWH) is derived from the root verb hayah meaning "to be." That is, YHWH means existence in and of itself.
It is existence in and of itself which "commands" that reality which we experience as consequence. Are you suggesting a reality devoid of consequence?
Now, the Canaanites practiced child sacrifice and were blotted out of history.
Imperial Japan worshipped its emperor and murdered ten million people. It too was blotted out and its victims cheered as it burned.
Evil and consequence are an ugly business.
What expectations might our society have then when 200, 000 children are sacrificed each day to the gods of prosperity and progress?
"Indeed I tremble for my country when reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever"
(Thomas Jefferson)
"And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you" (Leviticus 18)
Defending the Midianites?
It's a bit anachronistic to defend the child sacrifice, cult prostitution, and bestiality of a "Mad Max" Bronze Aged warrior society, don't you think? Easy for you though, as you don't have to deal with such lawlessness. Quick call to 911 and you're all good.
Evil is ugly.
Justice can be ugly too.
That passage in Numbers about the Midianite women -- and keeping the virgin girls for your own use -- was what cured me of looking to the Bible for any kind of guidance. This was a little less than a year before I stopped believing in Christianity. I was desperate for some kind of communication and guidance from God, so I tried to prayerfully read my Bible, as all my Christian friends advised. I happened to open it to that page. I was so deeply shocked. Although it didn't in itself shatter my faith, it demonstrated beyond any argument that the Bible could not be relied upon even to say something moral and good, never mind something helpful to someone living in the modern age.
Love the observation that God had Israel conquer rather than just speaking a Promised Land into existence just for Israel like a new Garden of Eden. The "bless the land" comment was spot on.
Thank you. So many ways of viewing these stories
I've heard lots of atheists talk about the genocide and taking of the virgins as spoils in numbers, but the way you applied it to you and your family was gut wrenching. Really put it in to perspective like no one else. Love your videos and really glad you are on TH-cam.
Thanks so much. That is really kind of you to say.
I agree, that example was really good because people with empathy will realize how terrible it is.
Much of the tyranny and crimes of the Bible “stories” if you put it to your family or yourself will really bring to life the tyranny, lack of “free will” and atrocities of a psychotic “god”
The fact that they had to go and conquer is already an issue that is very seldom addressed. Excellent point
I know more of the Bible as an atheist then I ever did as a Christian, weird how interested I became in reading it when I no longer had to find a way to explain away the mind-numbing cognitive dissonance that resulted from its actual contents.
yes exactly! Same here. I really enjoy treating this collection of books for exactly what it actually is.
@@MindShift-Brandon It’s a great series idea. I’m really enjoying it!
@@stimlordI don’t know how valid this is but over the last year I discovered two major ways of dealing with the Bible. I’m sure they can and are intermingled. That’s either devotional or more on the scholarly end of things. Having left christianity some 40+ years ago, I never gave it any thought. But I was definitely in the devotional, getting a personal word from god camp. Had I heard this back then, I would have been out 15 years earlier. But I’m with you, I know more now than ever.
@@Larry30102 Yeah, that's a great point It's either consuming the contents of the bible in an effort to find something that applies to you (which most devotionals seem to do) or looking at it while detached from it. The latter makes it very clear very quickly that the whole thing is a dumpsterfire, but the former is so pushed onto us as the purpose for the bible that it's hard to not do it.
So true!😊
Before I deconstructed, I would read this book and think "if these people, who see god work in a physical way, can fail to follow god, what hope do I have?" Then I would justify this with the new testament. So I would feel hopeless and then force myself to feel hope.
Also, one of the nails in my faith's coffin is that I shouldn't have to to say "you don't understand, it was just the time back then" when you are talking about a "timeless" and "unchanging" god. If slavery was always wrong, then god should have said that since the beginning. Is he not powerful enough to convince ancient people not to enslave people? Did he change his mind again? How does an unchanging being change his mind so much? And again, why does small little me have to justify god's actions? Shouldn't he be able to justify himself?
Yes, Yes, and yes! i hear this all so well, thank you!
Yes! I, too, agree with all you said! Another way that I don’t agree with “it was the time back then,” was the mistreatment and dehumanization of women, even down to Mary, mother of Jesus. Impregnated against her will, and at 13/14 years old at that! Phew! Talk about messed up
And angels telling hagar to go back into R*pe@@kellyracer576
Wow.... every single Christian should see these videos.
Thank you for that!
If only.
This channel has not been around that long. It already has become one of the best channels to help people escape religion.
"help people escape religion" --- but who will help you escape the Midianites?
Oh man. Thats really kind. Thank you!
@@MindShift-Brandon "Oh man. That's really kind. Thank you!"---
Oh man. You just saved us from Bronze Age barbarians. I wish it didn't have to come to that. But that's so kind of you. Thank you.
I dont understand haha @@andrewferg8737
You skipped over my favorite part in Numbers: when they kill a dude for picking up sticks. 😂😂😂
damnit! you're right. Too many ridiculous things happen in this book to keep track of.
@@MindShift-Brandon💯💯💯🎯fact
I wonder if the game "pick up sticks" is banned in some of the states in the "bible belt!" 😅
Which passage is that?? We need to know 😂
Wtf
What happens to the “chosen people” in the Bible convinced me to not live chosen, to rely on my own decisions and actions. Things have worked out well for me and I don’t have to live with the fear of god’s punishment for unknown reasons. Thanks for you work!
My pleasure, and well said!
I agree. Numbers is not as boring as it sounds, in fact it is actually one of the most interesting and entertaining books in the whole Bible. The tabernacle intro was kinda boring, but the road trip arc is glorious. This book was originally called “Banibar” or “In the Wilderness” and that name would be much more entertaining than new name
It's absolutely crazy the morality difference between the people who wrote the Bible, especially the really old books, and us today.
More crazy are these among us today who claim that we have our morality from this book.
@@katarinatibai8396 even crazier ppl have that morality without that book
When you apply a secular, nonbeliever's analysis of the man made Bible stories, the glaring contradictions stand out and the miracles disappear.
Funny how that works.
funny indeed!
26:15
i’m glad you put this into perspective. christians are often encouraged to view bible stories from the perspective of the victors. only recently did i start to look at them from the perspective of the people they were savaging. these were likely regular people, no more or less moral than anyone else at the time, living their lives when this desert-dwelling band of marauders comes and kills everyone, takes their stuff, and calls it “good” because their god said to do it. we’re encouraged to think that they had to be so wicked if god wanted them wiped out like that, but let’s be real: victorious warmongers commonly paint their victims as “evil” and “deserving of it”. this is a completely pedestrian idea. what’s extraordinary is the concept of a people group being so evil that the all-knowing sky-being that only talks to this one group of people (specifically only certain people from this one group of people) wanted them removed from the face of the planet through violence, pillaging, and plundering.
Thank you for this
Damn, really popping off on Numbers 31! Everyone, make sure you watch to the very end. Numbrs 31 is crazy and Brandon does a great job with it.
ha, yes might have got a bit carried away. Its just such a sick verse, without excuse and I am tired of christians ignoring or excusing it. Thank you!
@@MindShift-Brandon Wasn't Zipporah a Midianite.
@@spencerngene5546Yes. So in the case of Moses God was not against mixed marriages. Weird that. It almost seems that God was inconsistent at times. As if he made arguments of opportunity to kill random people 😅
Never thought I'd look forward to Bible study every week
Glad to have you!
Fr lmao, only Bible study I’ve actually been happy to think about and await
The “Maybe Land” made me laugh. So true!
Lol! Thanks for watching
I like the example of “what if it was your kids” because those with empathy will realize “hey you’re right that’s really bad” and those without will be left, likely not even thinking “are we the bad guys?” Due to blind obedience and hatred of the “out group”
As an ex-xian I can’t say that I spent that much time in Numbers. This really blew the top off. Big thanks for the great lesson. Keep up the strong work!
Glad to show some new angles, thank you much!
It’s crazy how the holy book written by Israelites tells us that the Israelites are the chosen people and everyone around them should just get out of their way or die. What a crazy coincidence
Its disgusting!
As horrifying as Numbers is the one thing I have to keep remembering is that it is in reality a human-made myth. However in my study of historical events in ancient history there were plenty of atrocities committed by real people against other real people. 😊
Yes for sure. The sad part is its the talking donkeys and fire from heaven that are the myths. The brutality did happen and has been traditionally and historically carried out because of these religious dogmas.
Woot! Bible study where I'm not judged for reading it like a 📖 rather than a 🔮 🎉🎉. Thanks man
Ha, love that! my pleasure.
WELL SAID. Yeah there is no song and dance to justify god's behavior in this bible study group. I also always had trouble with people saying there was a "new covenant" revealed to us in the New Testament. My thoughts about that were WTF???? Did this god of the old testament go find a god psychologist to talk to or find some god Prozac to take??
How did he change from evil.? How would dumping a son on earth change his mental process?
Numbers and other books has always been a stumbling block for me in accepting the "new Covenant" or having it make sense.
How did god change is personality?? He was an ass in the old testament. Was he saved by some higher god or what?? It makes no sense to me at all.
OK OK I will stop
Numbers 5 also has the nice bit about if a man suspects his wife’s pregnancy is the result of her having sex with someone else, take her to the priests for an abortion!
Yes its quite damning to god. I went through this verse in detail in my abortion video so left it out here for time but yes its a doozy
Creating imagery of the events of Numbers would be breaking the Graven Images Commandment.
Great summary Brandon. Looking back, I’m amazed that what god condones in this book, and his forgetfulness, isn’t a red flag to more people.
i think one of the sickest parts is his games with Baalam. I'm gonna start doing a bible story series where I just really focus in on these stories, 1 at time. The few vereses on what hes doing with Baalam are just insane.
Oh Branden your Bible studies are much more fun than any I did in Sunday school! (interesting how atheists can give better Bible studies than Christians) And thank you for putting to rest any debate on the meaning of Numbers 31 because really there is no debate to be had.
I have never heard any good arguments against it. Just bad justifications of how evil the other tribes were, lol nope! that does not work! Thank you for the kind words and feedback. Glad you are digging the show!
@@MindShift-Brandon "interesting how atheists can give better Bible studies than Christians" ---
"And Absalom would add, If only someone would appoint me judge in the land, then everyone with a grievance or dispute could come to me, and I would give him justice.... In this way he stole the hearts of the men of Israel"
(2 Samuel 15)
I'm beginning to think that the title of this book refers to how frequently "He really did a number on them!" 😅
He sure did
I can only imagine if God was real, God could have inspired a book that said you are all to get along. Have no slaves. Stop killing each other. Make peace not war. Do not rape mame or abuse. Be kind to your children. Help each other. Be gentle to animals. Be good custodians to the planet........
When people bring up "God's Objective morals," I ask them to read Numbers 31 and justify how anything there is moral.
I love how I’m getting Jim Caviezel and a dramatized Jesus by a Christian Netflix clone as ads before this video.
Yes, I will gladly make you pay MindShift.
lol! gotta love that.
About a week ago I decided to do something that I never thought I’d do again, which is to read the Bible (NIV). This time though I’m highlighting and making notes on the character of Yahweh and though I’m only about halfway through Numbers, I’m absolutely appalled at what I’m reading. How did I never see this before?
Isn’t it wild. Just blinders we had on
Oh yes, i learned something. Thanks for the excellent recap, and I'm in total agreement with you on Numbers 31.,
Appreciate that and its great to hear. Thank you.
Deuteronomy 28 is something else. I watched the Kristi Burke video on it...just disgusting.
Exodus - Make no graven images... Numbers - Make a graven image.
Lol!
Many parallels to the Odyssey! They were so close, but were then off course again and the giants are the two that really catch my attention. Every culture is influenced by those around them. We readily acknowledge this with technology, the arts, fashion, economically and socially why is acknowledging this so hard with religion? Why do we need to believe ours is different, special or unique in some way? I came of age during “The British Invasion”, the Beatles, mod fashion, pop art…influence happens!
Influence indeed! Plus theres only so many archetypes and narratives out there
Dam and here I was thinking it was gonna get into some modular arithmetic
I still don't get how they're so hungry all the time when they obviously had livestock and fowl to sacrifice, that they plundered even.
its almost like none of this story adds up... lol.
Come on, man! They forgot to pack their charcoal grilles when they bugged out of Egypt. Besides, they had all that Manna...Bamanna Bread, Mannaburgers, Manna-coti...Like the old song "Manna in the morning, Manna in the evening, Manna at supper time..."
That last part tho!!!! Brandon! when it is placed in that real perspective, it is POSITIVELY SOBERING!!!
Isnt it? So many christians just dismiss it like oh thats olden days. It wasnt for the people back then though, assuming any of this is true lol.
When i started to question, the book of Numbers was the book that made say yep this isn’t a loving being. And the only reason I believe is because i was indoctrinated to believe it when i was a child.
Yup. Its just that simple
Hello! Very glad to be the first commenter! Hopefully large "numbers" will follow. Cheers!
Thank you much! Cheers!
Unfortunately, you are not the first Jean. It would have been much nicer if you were. A cut and paste troll beat you to it.
That ending when you discussed Numbers 31 was incredibly moving. Your channel is superb and I am so glad I found it. Can't wait to see upcoming content and hope you get a ton more subscribers.
Appreciate that so much. Your support is always very refreshing.
@@MindShift-Brandon 💯👍
@bluelaser: RIGHT??? When you take the veneer off of those verses and take them for exactly what they say...😬😬😯😯
Just the other day I had a comment conversation with a Christian. When I asked him to demonstrate the existence of his god in reality in real-time his response: No one could possibly know god fully because he's outside of time.
It's like they completely forgot about all of the stories, they believe to be true, of the god character talking to people.
They can't keep their story straight. The rest of the conversation didn't go well for him.
Yes! Im so tired of god being this greater metaphorical concept. These people 100% clearly had yahweh in a tent with them
The incessant bickering between the god character and the Israelites and Moses in the Pentateuch always reminded me of an old married couple.
Yeah, Numbers 31 is a big one for me. I've had some people try to argue that sometimes the Bible just records things without fully condoning them. And sure, it's _technically_ Moses who gives the execution command here.
But God _does_ speak in this passage, beyond just commanding the whole war at the start. And what does he say? Does he denounce Moses for his heinous crime or even just chastise him for overzealousness?
No. He says, "Here's how you should divvy up the plunder, both man and beast. Make sure that I get a cut, you can give it to Eleazer on my behalf." And so Eleazer personally gets 32 of the virgin girls (as well as dozens of cows and donkeys and hundreds of sheep).
If God _did_ have something to say about the slaughter, surely he could've said it here instead. And I can here the counterargument that maybe he did and it just wasn't recorded. But if _that_ wasn't recorded and the banal matter of plunder division _was,_ then how is this book _at all_ a reliable account after such a lie of omission?
So no. The idea that God didn't condone this doesn’t work. The _only_ way you can salvage that claim is to reject Biblical inerrancy. And frankly, I see no way that this could even be _vaguely_ "inspired."
I tried to reconcile the Midianite story; it's a terrible way to live. I was introduced to the bible after childhood trauma, and had read through it several times before becoming saved around 4th grade. Having to believe the God who "saved" me was the same God in the Old Testament made me feel terrible and confused. My lack of empathy toward any out-group as an adult was among the consequences of having to stuff the mental mind fuck of something that isn't supposed to make sense.
That is a great point, how it leeches out into other aspects of our character and behavior. Same here, my friend. But we are free now!
excellent overview!
i've had a friend's friend debating me for about 6 weeks now, and every day I show him 10 more things in the Bible he didn't know it was in there that he can't really explain away, so then he changes the subject and then on the new subject I have 10 more questions that stump him so it's kind of comical but it's amazing how indoctrinated someone can be, because he is a really bright guy but he can't see what is clear as day, right in his face.
last week I brought up many of those issues you mentioned in Numbers and the Leviticus purity rituals that's like witchcraft etc. then the other day I thought of more stuff to add to Genesis (in reference to the supposed angels desiring human women, ) it would mean these spiritual beings are not only sinning by lusting in heaven (which I've went through with him before ) but it means they're getting horny without hormones or a body or blood or a penis lol) was the new part I thought about when we were talking and what makes them male or female if their if they have no anatomy (that's a little off-topic but that's where our conversation went when discussing the topic)
and the funny thing is the more you think about any of the books the more problems you find in them..
So keep up the great work
Thank you very much! The whole concept of the Nephilim and the issues that would arise with them doesnt help christians at all lol. Its all just so crazy!
@@MindShift-Brandon yeah, but what is funny is when you start telling them that archaeologist have dug up many many places in the southern Levant and there are no Giants
because then they go straight to conspiratorial crazy stuff god made them disappear, the government is hiding them from us, etc so it's kind of a fun little thing for me lol
@@kenaterphotography4624I'm just wondering why their god made angels able to procreate with humans in the first place.
Why is it ONLY human women that give birth to nephilim and not angel women? (Again placing blame on women).
Why not make those specific women infertile as he often did? Makes no sense with even a tiny bit of critical thinking.
@@kenaterphotography4624 The idea that Nephilim were other human subraces like Neanderthals has been proposed. And modern humans interbred with them in Europe as well. Crazy to think of. We need some fantasy stories about that.
@@Badficwriter lol
Love the secular Bible studies and I'm going through them one by one till I catch up with you! This is a great service. Thanks to my friend who let me know about your channel two months ago. Thank you, Brandon!
So glad to hear it and appreciate you watching them all!
I am hooked on this bible series you're doing. This is great work Brandon. Keep it up
Glad to hear it! Thanks so much
@22:37 …they kept this part out of the classic movie “the 10 commandments”! Soooo obvious why!
As interesting as Aron's Ra lecture, and very litterary. I LOVE storytelling analysis. Keep it up !
Thanks a lot! will do!
The other thing is the "millions of people passed through and/or settled here, but left no evidence" thing.
Right. Error after error
This series is one of the best out there! Loving these episodes, man.
So glad to hear it, thank you!
i've always thought that the Israelites got a bad rap for complaining about no food and water. They were in a DESERT for crying out loud. Their children were hungry and thirsty. But God doesn't seem to care, he just leads them on. Sort of like being on a long car trip and you're hungry and tired and you need to use the restroom but Dad won't stop, and when you say hey, I'm REALLY hungry, hey I REALLY need to go NOW, he gets all pissed off and finally pulls off the road but he's not doing it out of concern for you he's doing it just to shut you up. Come to think of it didn't Jesus have a parable about a widow and an unjust judge that was like that?
It seems to me that God is the unreasonable father here. Kid wants to know when are we going to stop and eat, when are we going to get to use the restroom. I think most people would say well of course, you can't expect a kid to go indefinitely without being able to do either. Kids have needs, they're not like adults. Well, in this story, the Israelites don't know where their next meal is coming from. They don't know where their next drink is coming from. All they see is desert, desert, desert. And they remind Moses, hey, we aren't superhuman, our kids aren't superhuman. We need to eat and drink (and if you've ever spent time in a desert area, especially in summer, you know how important it is to stay hydrated). But when Moses relays this message to God, God gets upset. There's no, you're right, these people need food and water, I should have seen to it before. No, it's they want food, I'll give them food. Manna's not good enough, they want meat? I'll give them meat, so much that they'll get sick of it. As fir water, well, you struck the rock one too many times. Too bad, no Promised Land for you. Maybe your kids will make it. If not, I've got a whole eternity of time . . .
This is the best I have heard on hearing all the stories about the Bible.
Thank you! So happy to hear that
22:49 If the God of the OT and the Devil were to both appear before me, I'd have a hard time telling them apart.
Thanks for another informative vid, Brandon. I wasn't aware of all the horror in the book of Numbers. Here's something that's really been bothering me lately: Christans need an army of know-it-all scholars to explain away the myriad of "inconvenient" texts in the Bible, and confidently tell you the passages don't mean what they say they mean.
When studying to be a paralegal years ago I came across the "reasonable person" test in law practice. What would a reasonable person do or say, or think, when presented with a certain set of circumstances or doctrines? When the Bible chapters were written, most of the world was illiterate and uneducated.
So, when the average peasant or day laborer heard the words: "slaugther all the midianites" he took it to means just what it says. He didn't think there was a cryptic or hifalutin "explaination of the text to explain what God REALLY intended by the passage. I'm sick and tired of all the apologists, presumably wise and definitely condescending, telling the faithful that the passages in the bible condoning genocide, condoning rape, condoning slavery, don't really mean what they say they mean. I'm sure you know the big names in this motley crew. I'm done; thanks for reading.
Man do i share in that frustration. Love the reasonable person angle. Gonna steal it!
@@MindShift-Brandon The phrase has served me well, LOL.
I was once told it was a terrible mistake to let laymen read the Bible because they wouldn't understand it, and they'd use the awful passages to excuse everything. I think they relied on this. Those who could read were benefited by the atrocities, so they excused it in their minds. The problem is when you insist the book of atrocities is sacred and the direct word of god. People not only excused the atrocities, they didn't want the benefits to ever stop.
Well goodness. I thought I would find these lessons of little use, since I had already parted ways with seeing the Bible as a Rule for Life. But man, you have more than doubled down on this. Brandon, you are a masterful story teller, but look at the excellent script you have to deal with! Could Hollywood have a movie with more double dealing, deceit, and bad guys on the Sheriff's payroll?
ha! appreciate that, but to your point, its all in the book. What a script!
So informative and useful! Always awesome to see some kind of deeper meaning behind the texts! I eventually stopped reading the bible after Numbers because it was basically grandma telling about her family tree. Let's see if you can help me get through that chapter and maybe I can pick the bible up again after that!
Ha! Thank you much
You overlooked the later part of chapter 31 where they are dividing up the "spoils" and the "Numbers" of those virgins was sixteen thousand; of which the Lord's tribute was thirty and two persons. This means they were sacrificed as per the law in Leviticus 27:29. So these lucky girls get to be burnt alive as a tribute after watching their families get slaughtered. How great his tender mercies, at least they didn't become permanent rape victims for the rest of their sad lives, like the rest of the captives. And the worst part is, Christians think their kids should read this book and live by it. This is what gets me angry.
I did miss that. Thank you!
I love this channel, you actually talk to people in the comments, for the first time I feel that I truly have someone on my side, thank you for your feedback, it really does mean alot.@@MindShift-Brandon
I thought this as well when I read it, but I believe that something else was done with them aside from burning. Assuming they followed what god had commanded prior, sacrifices specifically had to be ritually clean animals that chewed cud and had cloven hooves (or any of the various birds). They likely were made to do work related to the tent, whatever that may have been. Who really knows for sure though.
You may not "believe" that they were sacrificed, but the Levitical law is clear about what is to be done with persons that are given to the temple. Yes that's right persons, not animals.
True
Great point
He could have turned the dessert into an oasis…
Can't wait for #5! Glad you're here!
Thats very kind. Thank you!
I yearn for meaning and to find a map I can apply to my life. I have bounced in and out of the Christian mindset, but I still can’t make it make sense. What’s strange is I still pray. I pray to God directly and ask forgiveness, and not once have I felt chastised or have had anything bad manifest because I don’t go to church. In fact, I have been continuously blessed and am very aware when blessings occur. I try to do the right thing and I still attribute my life to God- which makes reading the Bible intensely difficult. I have a hunch that God is real, but we have bastardized he/she/its nature.
I had no idea…what a book! Wonderful job
It really needed a better name than Numbers, ha. Thank you!
27:30 the Bible just has so much moral baggage. An atheist can look at the genocide and rape and say “that was wrong, Jesus taught a much better message” but the Christian who needs the Bible to be true to justify his belief in Jesus has to then deal with the violence ordered by god.
Exactly this!
Just a note here, the playlist seems to be coming up backwards for me with the first episode being all the way at the bottom. That makes it a bit annoying to autoplay through the whole study. Other than that it's a good study that I'm finding very informative.
This book caused me so much angst before but your reading of it has turned it into a comedy for me 😂
Would be cool to see you do a video on how Christians and Jews relate the story of Exodus to the state of Isreal in present day and the justifications used to condone the treatment of the Palestinians.
I'd love to see you and Tim Mackie discuss these books
Why not just give your favourite people a spare bit of land somewhere? You could reserve it from the beginning and then just move them in. Such a lot of bloodshed doing it this way. (Not that it was done this way historically but...)
Yup. Just inexcusable
Wasn’t Moses married to a Midianite? Love how consistent the Bible is
Agreed, I always thought that "Numbers" was a bit of a letdown as a book name. A lot of the book is interesting reading, even for those of us who are no longer 'believers'.
An interesting thing to think about, I watched a video about the historical act of Isrrael conquering the neighboring people groups, that might’ve been totally made up by the priests in the Babylonian exile time period to inspire people to be able to take back their homes after they were exiled. “We conquered everyone before, so we can do it again.
I don’t know if this is true, but I just saw it and thought it would be interesting if true.
That is interesting! I could see a lot of purposeful manipulation or embellishment considering when it was all put down.
@@MindShift-Brandon Your description of Yahweh testing the people group by keeping them starving and demanding new things, but always being present and providing rewards like mana, reminds me of harsh animal training. This is almost identical to older, cruel methods to break an animal, and get it to act like you want. You can see some of this in how bears are trained to dance. It requires a rope or metal ring through the nose. The chain is pulled and twisted until the bear is in agony if it does not turn the way it is directed. Some are put on hot metal plates so they lift their paws.
There is no Free Will in this. If these harsh methods were acceptable, than so is more benevolent intervention.
👍👍👍 glad to have found your videos! Excellent work.
Awesome, thank you!
Numbers 5: 11-31 is also a very interesting passage... Great work! That was a lot to cover in a very short time.
it is! I left it our for time since I had just covered it so much in my video on God's view of abortion.
Oh, Shirt this was interesting. I thought I knew the Bible fairly well. Now I realize I did not know much. excellent.
He hit the donkey because it kept stopping for an angel that was on the road and it made him mad that it wouldn't move. It spoke AFTER the beating.
it's also interesting that is only a couple of hundred years ofter the bronze age collapse. I bet lots of people had bad times many of the great powers had gone or not what they were, the e
Thats an amazingly relevant point. People are easier to manipulate when they're desperate.
Have you heard of the theory that the Canaanites were remaining nephilim? I struggled for a long time with the slaughter that Israel committed in Canaan, and like so many I searched for ways to justify it. The idea was that some of the nephilim mentioned in genesis had survived after the flood (even though according to some theories the purpose of the flood was specifically to wipe out the nephilim) and that those surviving nephilim had begun living in Canaan and hence why they were referred to as giants (and if I am not mistaken this may be more than a theory but actually directly mentioned as some point in the Bible, but its been a while so I am fuzzy). It was a way of looking at this stuff through a lens of them killing demonic beings (which the nephilim are perceived by many to be) and at least at the time made it easier for me to digest.
Of course, one need not take it so far. Many people are content in the idea of slaughter being ok and even justified when those on the receiving end are considered unrighteous. I have no doubt that this line of thinking has played a big part in many recent slaughters such as during colonial times. And it even persists in more subtle ways like how easily so many Christians can wave off systemic inequality as merited, thinking that sufferings itself is proof of ungodliness.
It is actually quite a dangerous way to see the world. Glad I got out.
I have indeed, I think theres good reason to dismiss that, but like you alluded to, it would just be a whole new set of problem. Why didn't the flood work? If the Nephilim escaped that, then the account in Genesis is wrong, and also killing the rest of the world was even more unjust then. Then theres the issues with freewill if we get Nephlimin from bad angles coming down and raping human women. Also even if it some Canaaintites were, not all would have been. And they committed these horrendous acts on many other none Canan Tribes. lol just fails all around!
@@MindShift-Brandon I bet I could (and I think I did before) come up with mental gymnastics for all of that :D Ha ha
I got into it with a YT viewer about the ethnic cleansing, and he claimed the destruction was justified because of unrighteousness. So instead of just forgiving them and showing them where they were wrong, god just whacked them. God is love...occasionally.
Israelite and Canaanite DNA has been compared. They are the same. You can find hints of this in the Bible, where Canaanites knew and honored Yahweh as one of many. But the story of Israel is of one Canaanite tribe deciding they were set apart from the others, with their jealous god demanding all other gods be destroyed until only the jealous god's tribe was left, and rewriting history from this point of view.
How can they be Canaanites when Abraham came from Ur?
Thank you young man for this information and sharing this with us.. your a beautiful soul and wonderful person..❤
Israelites: Yo, Jehovah! Gis some meat, mate!
Jehovah: Sends quails.
That's just taking the piss!
ha! for sure!
That impalement made me think about how incompatible Yahweh of the old testament is with the modern era.
Its insane that we still try to hold on
It's hard to spend 40 years wandering around to find land that YOU LITERALLY ARE FROM. The Israelites, Canaanites, Jebusites, Hitites, Perizites, etc were ALL BROKEN TRIBES OF THE SAME PEOPLE.
Fun fun.
Some things never change.
Sadly
Maybe the donkey was an ancestor of Mr Ed.😅🤣🤣
I can't wait until you do the book of job 😬😬😬
me too! that used to be my favorite book of the bible, and now I think its perhaps the ugliest.
Been reading the old testament again, and picturing Jesus himself as the one saying, doing, and commanding all of these things. It's been super interesting to read it from that perspective. After I finish each book, I'll watch your video on it to see what stood out to you, and what your thoughts are. Finished Numbers today, and watched this immediately after. Great overview, super dense book lol. On to Deuteronomy!
This series shows just how much reading around the bible church leaders be doing. Thanks for full story or the dark side of the bible.
My pleasure!
I didn't remember the part about God killing the dude for marrying the Midianite. ........ I think Moses' wife Zipporah was a Midianite, so that's a huge contradiction.
Yup. Major issues everywhere!
previously i mentioned being in a 52 week bible study group in the early oughts, and i actually did try to find the book we used, but i must have gotten rid of it, or it remains as hidden as god. i really wanted to do a comparison. youve got me on a mission now. i really want to see how they gloss over the troublesome aspects.
Please share if you find it!
It's almost like a divine comedy. Can't get right Israel, and yahweh punishing them.
Imagine wanting to be a preacher and believing in the god you love and care for deeply. Then one day you wake up with the realization that god is completely faked for a human deceiver’s purpose. Now the preacher is for the Abrahamic believers to wake up too.
I think that is many of our journeys.
My friend reconciled his position that mutdering children is awful with the Bible: "Who am I to judge God's will?"
So all i have to be is a god and i have no one question me. Bruh, give me that power
Numbers 31: If you go back to Genesis 25 verses 1-4, the Midianites were also descended from Abraham through his second wife Keturah. But apparently God's promise didn't apply to them or to any of Abraham's other sons whether by Keturah or Hagar or other unnamed women, only to Isaac. Seems strange that after spending so much time and detail regarding Sarah's inability to conceive and Abraham's taking matters into his own hand by having sex with Hagar (though with Sarah's urging), Abraham's remarriage after Sarah's death and the sons he had with this new wife gets only a handful of sentences, almost like an afterthought. We do know from the text that when Abraham died it was only Isaac and Ishmael who buried him, the other five sons having been sent away to other lands. Fast forward several centuries to the events of Numbers 31 and you have God telling one set of Abraham's descendants to wipe out another set of Abraham's descendants. Good thing it wasn't Ishmael's descendants living in the way of the Israelites!
Thanks you are making it so interesting.
"Imagine all the smiting..." 💀
If I could only give 100 thumbs up 😃
my man, thank you!
wow that was a ride and a half. Like you I had major issues with chapter 31, that was so disgusting I almost stopped reading all together, and you are telling me its gonna get worse? hmmm, might need some time in a psych ward after this. also the story with the donkey pissed me off! why did not god just show himself to the dude right away? he cause that poor donkey needles wiping! so pointless. also so many times the whole relationship between god and moses felt like a mother begging a abusing husband to not hit his children anymore. Thank you for another good video and a good rundown, I think I need to read something else than the bible for a day or two cause this shit is kinda screwing with my head
I get it! And man good analogy to the wife stuck between the abuser and the kids.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the murder of the Midianite woman and the Hebrew man was always explained to me (raised Catholic) as being a condemnation of mixed religious, not racial, marriages since the ancient Hebrews were often led to worship pagan gods by their foreign wives. Still horrific, but doesn't have the racist factor as presented here.
I can understand that. The verses in this story dont show that. The offense seems to just be the purity factor of mixing in non jewish blood. But theres other context to suggest what youre saying. Like you said. Either way.
@@MindShift-Brandon Sincerely, thank you for the response and for the videos. I've binged your content non stop since finding your channel, and I have to say that you have perhaps the most informative AND most civil YT channel on religion, which I know is no easy task.
The way this story was presented to me was that a) there wasn't the concept of race in the ancient world as we have today. There were simply people who were a part of your tribe/nation and those who were outsiders, and b) just about every time Hebrew men worshipped pagan gods, it was due to the influence of foreign wives, so this was a warning against such unions. However, in the American South, the story was twisted as a tale against interracial unions. But I can see why one might interpret it either way.
One thing I would be curious to hear is how you view the story of Peter's "vision" that kosher laws no longer applied. Do you think that Paul convinced him that the Jewish converts to Christianity market was tapped and they had to move on to the Gentiles? Or do you believe that he sincerely thought that Jesus overrode kosher laws? My bet is on the former since Peter insisted on these laws until Paul truly became confrontational. Just curious. Thank you again.
Thanks for the extremely kind words and questions. Hope to get to it in a video soon!
@@MindShift-Brandon Thank you again for your hard work and scholarship. Can't wait for you to tackle the Gospels!
PREACH
Ha. I can get a bit carried away sometimes.
I know your name is Brandon, but you look like you could be a Joshua.
Maybe in a Joshua movie, you could star as the lead if you do any acting.