A gorgeous 1966 Omega - but is it what it seems?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we have a beautiful 1966 Omega Genéve on the bench , with a glossy black dial with golden details. Something is however not quite how it should be with this watch, both inside and out...
Join us for a full service of this watch and a discussion of dial refinishing and whether that is a good thing or a bad thing - or maybe somewhere in betweeen? As usual there will be a few detours and numbnut opinions!
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33:10 A refinished dial is not something I would buy but I'd wear it no problem if I had inherited it for instance. My main problem with refinished dials is the dishonesty of sellers. People who try to sell off clearly repainted dials as originals. I like my watches original. Every hairline has a story. That being said, refurbishing a beaten up watch and letting it get a new life is totally fine as long as it's being sold as a refurbished watch. Those are my 2 øre.
That is pretty much spot on, George. It is always better to be transparent about things that the buyer will find out about anyway, but unfortunately so many refinished watches are sold with a lack of honesty...
I like patina on dials but if the dial is very damaged or destroyed and mostly illegible; I think it can warrant a redial. One of my watches has a very nice redial to look like original.
@@muffemod yes there is a difference between patina and damage.
I agree 100%. But they are not targeting people like us. For ex, I pay for honesty without bargaining. But those scavengers are feeding their thirst from people who like to hear what they want and are blinded from surface and not substance
@@muffemod _ Patina is corrosion.
I'm sure that 99.99% of non-Watch nerds would never know that the watch has been redialed. It's beautiful and you did a great job. Would I wear the watch? Yes, if the price was reduced substantially to reflect the redial.
Refinished or not, this watch looks gorgeous and classy, and runs great after a proper service!
It is a beauty for sure :)
The hands look like crap. Maybe the previous guy made them
The "service" will cost much more than the watch and the watch is not inexpensive!
It's a good looking watch for daily wear and I would happily wear it. Omegas are not uncommon nor are they crafted to the highest standard. So to have them as a part of a collection is not so desirable. I first observed my father as he did watchmaking when I was about ten years old - in the mid-fifties. I did learn the basics of the trade but my father adamantly discouraged my following him. He said, correctly as it turned out, that watchmaking would become moribund and by 1960 his fears became reality with the introduction of the Bulova Accutron. We all know the history of watches from there on. Sort of ironic but he gave me a Spaceview version of it for my high school graduation. It still have it and it's my prize. I am pleased to see something of a resurgence of appreciation for quality mechanical watches and I enjoy looking over your shoulder as I once did at my father's bench. Thanks for that time machine.
As long as the refinished dial is fully disclosed when selling, it’s ok. This should be reflected in the price as well. If a dial got completely damaged, refinishing is much better than being garbage.
Absolutely spot on, Patrick 👍
It is never reflected in the price!
What amazing knowledge, skill and fine motor control of your hands!
Love your videos. I would not buy a refinished watch. But yes, I would wear it. Specially this one....its a beauty.
I don't mind what people think about what I do to my personal watches, because I build them for myself and nobody else. Of course working on something for somebody else is a different matter entirely... but if they want something altered so be it.
"Special orders don't upset us, have it your way". If you remember that line then you're about as old as I am...
Beautiful job, thank you once again.
Thanks so much :)
Recently found your Chan. It’s easily the best of its type. Thank you!
Glad you enjoy it!
Congratulations with the 20K, well deserved. Onwards to the 50K then! And I would not mind a refinished dial looking good like this one.
Thanks so much, and onwards indeed! This is certainly a beautiful watch, and most people would focus on that and not bother with the whole pandora's box of refinished vs original 😁
I never get bored of watching beautiful Omega movements. Well done spotting the setting lever by the way. Thanks Stian.
Thanks, Howard!
Jumped out of an airplane juggling running chainsaws while they are on fire. Dude you are super talented.
I didn't mention how many fingers I lost nor how long I spent in the hospital 😎
@@VintageWatchServices I'm hoping you wasn't bareass nekid, could have lost something else.
My second time watching the video. I’ve had additional thoughts on the dial: most of the things we own have been refinished or altered. From our homes to our cars. Nothing stays the same in appearance. Even we ourselves change! So this, to me, is cosmetic. Even as a rare collector. The important bit is the Omega craftsmanship and inner workings. Great job on the setting lever discovery. This Omega has had to under go some defacing in its life, but you’ve given it back it’s respect! And great to see you’ve gone from 20k subscribers to well over 50k now!
Thanks, Jason!
Thank you for all of the explanation of the functions of the various part. (retired engineer)
Love your channel. I have a modest collection of watches - mostly various family watches including an Omega Bumper with a solid gold case from (I think) the late 50's that was my late father's. I prefer a watch that is as authentic as possible, but some watches, even restored, just look so darn good, and this is one of them. I would wear it, and even buy it for the right price (if sold honestly as having an incorrectly restored dial.)
I have to admit to an addiction. It’s watching your channel. I am very envious of your skills and patience which is accompanied by the light hearted banter. Brilliant. Of course I’ve subscribed and am enjoying going back over previous video’s. Stay safe. All the very best. Mick🇬🇧
Thank you very much, Mick! 😊👍
Love it! I would wear it without hesitation. Love old Omegas regardless of their backstory.
I wouldn't have any problem with the refinished dial. It's still a very attractive watch. I'd actually like to see how dials are professionally refinished. I think that would be interesting. Great videos by the way. I watch them as much for the commentary as anything else. I love the humor, interesting stories, and especially the history and explanations you provide. Keep up the good work!
Exactly my thoughts. This channel is informative and entertaining.
Refinish dial
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Honestly I think this watch looks beautiful regardless of whether it was repainted or not
I would not have refinished the watch originally, but you were not given the option. You received it this way and have restored it to its proper glory, refinished face and all. Its a beautiful watch and unless you knew a great deal about this particular watch I don't believe anyone would know the difference. Obviously a collector or enthusiast would, and would not likely buy this watch or have it refinished this way, but again you received it this way. Awesome video!! Keep them coming!
Thanks Thomas! We don't know what condition the dial was in, so it's not really possible to say whether it was a good choice to refinish it. Hopefully it was in really, really bad condition 😉
I am of the opinion if it looks good I would wear it but as for my collection it would not be considered. Really enjoy the banter and the knowledge displayed. Thank you!
I would proudly wear that refinished dial! Have to assume the original finish was severely damaged. Congrats on the 20,000....and I'm sure you have many more in your future!
Thanks so much, Tracy, that's very nice of you :) And it is indeed a beautiful dial, objectively.
Your rants are the best part!
I absolutely LOVE Omega watches. They are my favourite in regards to design and the quality of their movements. I like watching the non-chronograph videos the most because I just love seeing the escapement operate rather than be hidden under all that complexity, which is also why I love the display back on the later Omegas with the spectacular machining on the rotors. As a fastidious restorer myself, I was disappointed by the fact that the finish on this watch dial had bits of dust under it that ruined the finish, and if you are going to do such a thing, I would have refinished the indices as well as the hour and minute hands to bring it back to an as-new appearance. It's also unacceptable that the graphics were changed, although that was the least of my concerns overall. All that said, it is a gorgeous, simple watch design and one of my favourites to date from Omega. I was amazed by the movement's accuracy. Thank again for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you sir for your reply. My 1960 Omega Seamaster is being serviced here in Connecticut USA. This is the first time I’ve had a vintage watch serviced. My cost is $800. Which is almost what I paid for the watch 5 years ago. The watch ran fine but was progressively more difficult to wind. Thank you again!
$800? 😳 That sounds crazy. Is that with an Omega store then?
I’m not a collector, so yes I would wear that watch with pride. I love the simple dials, especially w/o the date.
I love the watch. I'd buy it if I could afford it. I wish I could get my '70s vintage Tissot PR516 serviced and restored but I could buy a good modern watch for what it might cost.
Keep up the excellent work, sir.
Originality is always the best route for those who really care. But this repair/service you've done is excellent.. and if the dial not being original isn't a concern, I'd be happy to wear it because it's been serviced by you... Kudos..
The dial is the face of the watch. Making it more beautiful is not a crime in my book as long as it keeps the original DNA like this one. I'd like just to know from the seller what I am buying. Some dials shouldn't be touched as they distinct them from others. Anyway watch is beautiful.
I think you're very right in that assessment. At some point a dial is too far gone to leave it be, and the real question is when one decides that is.
Looks great. I would been proud of that watch
Beautiful watch. Elegant.Good job.
That Omega black dial is nice! Wow! I have a 1965 Omega with a 560 caliber. It's nice but everytime the caseback has to be removed the o ring has to be replaced due to some wear on the screw on caseback threads I guess. Great upload!
The dial on the Seamaster ('59) I inherited from my father was covered with flakes of the original lacquer that had come loose. As a "patina", it did not look good, and functionally all those flakes of old lacquer threatened to foul the movement over time, so I had it re-dialed. I was mostly satisfied with the result, but just as you noted for this watch, not all the fonts were correct. In this case it was the shape of the S in Seamaster. The redial used an S that Omega did use, but it was not the S that this particular model used.
Yeah, that's the issue; there were so many variations back in the day, and if the redialer doesn't have the exact printing plate, the result will be slightly different from the original...
As always excellent work, as far as the dial is concerned, if it was in real bad shape I might have a new one made , but keep the original as is and with the watch that can be replaced if desired or if another collector purchases the watch they will have the original
Thanks Randy! The decision point must indeed be whether the dial is too far gone or not. The issue with refinishing dials is that to make them completely like they originally were you would need the exactly correct printing plates... and those are very difficult to find for old watches.
I greatly appreciated this video as I have my Dad's watch, Omega, looks very similar, a Constellation. It is my goal to complete a service on his watch one day and get it running, this video (and others) will be very helpful as I continue to work on my watch services skills. Thank you and I very much enjoy the channel.
Thanks for that Wayne! Good luck and one step at a time :)
... and - thank you for your videos, which I really appriciate... full of information and fine sense of humor!
Glad you like them, Werner!
Love your stuff 👏🏻👏🏻… especially the sound effect of the watch case being dropped into the cleaning fluid .. reminds me of the sound of a mine scrapping across the side of a submarine 😂😂… very eerie 🥺🥺
😁👍
Great video. I would say a dial should only be repaired as a last resort, but it also depends on the watch and the history behind the damage / patina. Best to replace the dial and keep the old one, so it can always be put back to original.
Thanks Andrew! The dial itself is the original piece of metal, but it was stripped down to the metal and then repainted.
Thank you for all your entertaining descriptions, I have learned a lot about timepieces. For a little over 45 years I had a Rolex Submariner on my wrist, accurate and reliable and the adventures it survived were hard to believe, that is a story beyond this Omega service. Regarding refinishing dials I do not care for any restoration that affects original integrity. Gears and pinions, wheels and springs and jewels can be fixed or replaced, of course. That should be it. The fading or changes in finish, or any other signs of age tell the story of endurance and service. Cheers!
Thanks so much, Hans! There is a point at which a dial is so badly damaged that the owner won't wear the watch anymore, and then I think refinishing the dial is the better choice. But of course, a nicely aged dial should be left as is 👍
What a beautiful watch. I loved the inside as much as the exterior and yes I would wear it any day. The gold copper colour of the movement is to die for. Thank you for posting.
Thanks for watching!
I’m very happy to have found your channel. The videos are excellent! You’re a true master of the craft. I’ve been watching watch channels for a few years now but it’s in your videos that I found the most valuable info about the mechanisms and how they work, the functions of each part, and oh gosh finally someone who shows how to properly lub a watch. Ah and the jokes are good too. Mostly 😂😂 Cheers! Best wishes!
Welcome aboard! 😁
Ciao Stian. Wonderful watch as usual . I really appreciate when you zoom in to see all the parts more clearly. Is so nice seems that I am inside the watch. Spare parts are always important , and the right one have to be used. Bravo !
Thanks a lot! I have gotten myself a new camera that has a much higher resolution :)
I don’t mind refinished dials on my watches because I’m not a collector nor do I buy them to re-sell them, so it only matters if I like it or not. With that said… I would want it redone correctly though. Congrats on the 20k!Another edutaining video. Can’t get enough of them!!!
Thanks so much, Walther :) The issue with refinishing dials is that to make them completely like they originally were you would need the exactly correct printing plates... and those are very difficult to find for old watches.
Very true. For your viewer’s info: Bill & sons in the UK say they can do an exact match to original or a very close match at differing prices. Here in the states, Kirk Rich dials make the same claim except they say they have the “dies” whether they got their hands on actual Heuer tooling, I don’t know. So, I’ll have to investigate further and will comment once I achieve something. Thank you for the videos!!
The watch and I are of the same vintage, '66! Thanks for the informative video as usual.
Thanks for watching!
Hi Stian, love that watch. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest!, I do like original but some of these dials are toast!. I feel such a high end watch deserves a face lift, the dial gives so much pleasure and valuable information. I am always stunned at the knowledge you have attained over the years, and you share it easily. Thank you and congratulations on 20,000, fully deserved. Adrian.
Thanks so much Adrian, that is very nice to hear :) And yes, original dial > refinished one, but refinished one > badly damaged original dial 😁
Congratulations on the 20K mark!! It's well-deserved recognition of the high quality video and craftsmanship. Bravo! I'm not a collector - I just have a lot of watches - so a refinished dial wouldn't bother me so long as it was explained before the sale. In this case I don't care for the dial so the watch wouldn't have grabbed my attention. I like the Omega gilt dials.
Thanks so much, Milan :) Honesty is indeed lacking too much of the time...
You are not an idiot, I wish I had your skills, you are a craftsman 👍
I would love to wear that watch . It looks great and the movement inside being genuine is all you need
I stopped using a wrist watch some three years ago. There is always a mobile phone or computer screen available... But that does not mean that I don't llike these interesting videos. Keep up the good work!
I don't even wear a watch myself that much! It's like you say, time is displayed everywhere nowadays. Mechanical watches are still very fascinating to me though :)
I like refinished dials if they are done properly. It makes the watch look like new.
👍
Nice job ,very good result. With respect to refinished dials there comes a time when a new old stock dial is unavailable and the only recourse is to have it redone. I have a small rose Tudor from 1950s which had a silvered dial which had gone to dust. No option, just wear it and enjoy .
It’s a nice looking watch. I’d be proud to wear it.
I have nothing against refinishing any part of watch. But only in case it's beaten too much. And it should be done properly. Thx for nice video!
Absolutely agree!
Very classy looking watch and a great video, thank you for sharing. 👍
Thanks for watching, Anthony!
I think the refinished dial looks great -- higher quality than the original. I've watched a couple of these specialty dial refinishing shop channels and they put a great deal of work into redoing them.
Fair enough!
Hello, First of all thank you for all your interesting videos. For me refinishing a dial is something that would only need doing for the very worst case. But just a light cleaning and tidying is OK. Keep well, keep safe and enjoy life.
Love all watches, restored or original. As long as it's disclosed at the sale it's been refurbished. I'm one that loves bringing back not so old watches to looking like new again as most of my collection is under 25 years old.
Learning metal refinishing and practising on junk cheap watches has helped tremendously.
I never sell... just hoard all the watches lol.
Have a particular taste...lots of subdials, day dates and the like.
I'd love to learn how to reverse the colour of my date wheels from white with black font, to black with white font but have little idea outside water slides, or colour printing on decal sheets. replacement wheels are not available.
Congrats on 25k+ subs!!
I've been very much enjoying your channel!
I would wear it without the blink of an eye.
It looks vintage and gives you some kind of strong personality.
It realy doesn.t matter what other people would say ... i don.t care.
Old watches are always builded with responsability, for sure.
All those watchmakers long time ago had a religious respect for this craftmanship ... and here are the results.
Congratulations for this wonderful rebuild as well like many others !
Keep em coming and for sure i will be here to watch.
RESPECT !!!
Thanks so much, Sorin, that's very nice to hear :) And yes, it's a beautiful watch!
I think there’s room for all tastes in watches to exist. Completely original or expertly refinished. I prefer originality and like an old watch to look old. But if you buy an omega 60’s - 70’s watch that’s got a dial so far gone it’s not useable and paid £500 for it. Prepare to pay another £200 on an original looking replacement dial. I understand why people repaint and think it’s down to the size of your pocket. The quality of this man’s work is outstanding and his knowledge given freely and in such a lovely way is a joy. He must have an understanding wife.
😂 Thanks!
I come here for the restorations, but I stay for the humor.
😂 Thanks, Timothy!
Thanks for a new one. Hope you are well.
Thanks, Stephen, you too!
Thanks for all the explanations. Among other things, I never knew the difference between a wheel and a pinion, or the notches of the setting lever. Can't way to see your other videos.
Glad to help!
I have no problem with it if it is just a watch I bought to wear. If it were an heirloom I would probably want it original. I would be proud to wear this watch!
I tend to agree with you that dial should not be re-finished unless they are so bad that they become useless. Since we have no idea what the dial looked like before it was re-finished, I don't think I can say if it should have be done or not. I've never attempted to finish a dial myself, so I cannot tell if it's easy or hard to get the exact match.
Great video as usual, thanks for sharing
Thanks so much and you've really said all there is to say... The issue with refinishing dials is that to make them completely like they originally were you would need the exactly correct printing plates... and those are very difficult to find for old watches.
I also collect watches but i only buy watches i like and look nice to me. A refinshed dail is no issue for me if i like it.. I even own some Casio digital quartz watches. But i do own some nice vintage watches. I love the channel...
I have really been enjoying watching your videos. They have reinspired me a great deal.
Watchmaking has been in our family for five generations, well six if I get back into it.
That is very nice to hear, Richard!
Stian, Thanks again for another philosophy of life lesson and a great watch assembly video as well. I really appreciate the work that you put into your channel and the rapport that you must develop with you viewers. My wife doesn't understand what I get out of watching but oh well. I spent some time in Biel/Bienne for my work as watch manufacturers helped us create implantable medical devices. I developed my appreciation for watches during that time.
Thanks a lot for your kind words! And your wife probably has a better sense of humor than you and me 😉
Wonderful watch, and as ever, wonderful job. Thank you for sharing your mastery with us. It is always a pleasure to see you in action.
Thanks so much for that :)
Greetings from New Zealand. I think this is a stunning watch and I'd be very proud to wear it. I love watching your channel and appreciate your knowledge and commentary.
Thanks so much, Peter :)
Beautiful job, Sir Keep it up
a very nice watch ... thanks for the tips to watch out for originality
👍
I love the black dial over the white.
First, I'm glad to have found your channel. Calm voice, clear elocution, excellent quality of the camera work, all making it very pleasant to follow the process.
There's something about the repainted dial I feel uneasy about. It just doesn't match. I'm no collector, but I'm familiar with watches of that time, simply because of my age. These dials are supposed to show a patina, just as I do. Repainting is just as crazy as putting polyester lacquer on a Bechstein piano from the twenties. If you don't want to pay the fourty hours of French polishing, leave it as it is, with all the blemishes. When restoring you don't make irreversible changes applying an inferior technique. Even not sure whether the original dial was black.
There is as well the purely legal aspect of infringement of Omega's rights. In this case, the dial not being authentic is evident. But as a brand I wouldn't be very happy with it. Only Omega is allowed to put his name and marks on it.
You always notice when there are wrong replacement parts and fix all the dumb errors of others. I would completely trust you to work on any watch of mine, not that I have any that are valuable enough to fix (well, maybe my Omega Electronic f300Hz Constellation that's not running). Thanks for another great video!
Thanks so much for that, James :) I don't have the equipment to work on electronic watches, I'm afraid, but your watch is a historical one!
I love vintage watches for what they are made of and how they work. I do like them to look close to new, but that's just me. I'd wear it!
Great video and funny comments thanks again
Thanks for watching it, David!
I like the refinished dial. It's a gorgeous piece.
It is a beauty! 😍
I'd wear it in a heart beat! Another great video, thank you for sharing!
Thanks a lot, Ben!
THANKS for another GREAT VIDEO
You bet, Greg :)
Hello Stian! I don't currently own any used watches. I'd likely wear the one you just showed however I find the gold hands and markers at odds with the case. That said, I do have a handsome Bulova with a black dial, gold hands and gold primary marks with a stainless case but the gold is very much less obvious. I won't wear brown shoes with a black belt and I won't wear a black watch strap with a brown shoes or belt. But I'm strange anyway. I have a Omega 620 movement that I'll be tearing down at some point. It has the same copper plating on the plates and bridges. The Buren that I just went to reassembly has a broken setting lever spring and I'm not certain if I'm going to go in search of a replacement that will likely cost more than I paid for the movement. Thanks for giving me something to watch on a Saturday morning. Your voice is very soothing... 🙂
Thanks so much for that, Gary, and I was actually struggling with the exact same color choice when I put on a new strap! In general my rule is that a gold(en) watch should have a brown strap and a steel watch a black strap, but when you have a black dial, what do you do? Ultimately I decided on a black strap but a dark brown one would probably work also. Or maybe a pink one! 😁
@@VintageWatchServices A pink strap would mess up my belt and shoes selection. 😃
En nydelig klokke. Kunne jeg lett gått med hver dag 😀 herlig å se på👍
Den er flott :)
Nice watch and great work on the dial! If the dial is sold as refurbished, I have no problem with it!
👍
Love the video and the watch. I have no problem getting or wearing a dial like that, as long as you know it and buy with full disclosure. There are beautiful ones to be had that the collectors don’t touch and leave for the rest of us mere mortals 😃
Well said and entirely accurate for 99.99% of watch buyers :)
It is a beautiful watch. The dial does look good, but I would have preferred the original patina'd dial (unless it was badly damaged). Perhaps an original dial could be found?
As a collector of course I would prefer a original dial, but the redial on this watch does look good so I definitely would wear it.
If it looks to good to be true springs to mind, still a lovely watch when all said and done, made even better by your magical touch.
Many thanks, Clive!
I would definitely enjoy this watch. It's beautiful! But, I would want to know the work that was done for my information and if I ever decided to sell it because I would want to disclose it.
BTW, I enjoy your rants and sense of humor. Great job and thank you for your hard work.
Great video,fantastic skill
Nothing to add about the dial conversation - honesty above all. I do think transparency should be extended to all aspects of a vintage watch. Just picked up a serviced Seamaster and am less than thrilled about the condition of the movement; plating worn and minor rust stains. It does run well and the case and dial look great- oh well.
Honesty above all indeed. The movement shouldn't have a lot of wear unless there's been rubbing, and metal sometimes stains a bit over time, but on the other hand you probably won't see it that often :)
@@VintageWatchServices you're right. I'm just nitpicking. Adventures in ebay bargains
In addition to Omega, some Felsa movements were copper plated in those days as well, particularly in nicer ones often adjusted to Chronometer spec that they supplied to Bucherer and Breitling.
Yep, thanks for that, Ned!
You deserve every sub! And the watch is very nice, including the black dial!
Thanks so much! 😊
I'd definitely wear it.
I got a Bulova automatic recently and it has a unique blue dial . This watch is okay even if it has been altered .
I think that a refinished dial is just fine so long as it's well done. For many of the watches, the original dial was probably so bad that the watch wouldn't be used. A refinished dial gives a watch a second chance. It helps preserve old watch culture. Yes, you need to be up front when you sell the watch. I own one watch with a refinished dial, and it is very nice, very similar to this watch. I collect antique cars, and most collectors have no issue repainting and restoring the cars. There are some cars that still have good original paint and interiors, and those are left alone.
Well said
Very nice looking watch I would wear it no problem great video as always 👍
Thanks a lot, Peter!
love your work mate!!!
Thanks so much, Benjamin :)
Nicely done Sir. :)
Thank you! Cheers!
The dial was well refinish looks awesome
It's a beautiful dial for sure!
Congratulations (big time!) on your 20k subscribers.
On the redial issue, I think every case has to be judged on its merits, depending on:
1) the state of the dial
2) the quality and correctness of the redial
3) the history of the particular watch in question.
Although the consensus seems to be on the side of 'leave it alone' in the watch world, it's worth noting that this is an arbitary rule.
In the case of 'fine art' and 'vintage cars' the consensus is entirely the opposite.
Thanks Michael and you make a very salient point. The decision should really be based on "Will refinishing the dial improve the sentimental/financial value of the watch or not?". And it's a pretty recent development that watches are valued with an original but clearly aged dial....
I'd wear it with pride. Refurbished items don't bother me assuming they were done well, and not being passed off as mint condition originals. Great job. Enjoyed the video.