A Protestant Asks a Catholic Theologian About Mary (Third of Five Conversations)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2020
- Dr. Jeremy Holmes (a Catholic) and I (a Protestant) are talking about some specific points that Catholics and Protestants often see very differently.
This is PART THREE of a FIVE PART series of conversations
Here are links to all five parts of this series:
Part 1 (Where we compare notes about big picture similarities and differences between Protestants and Catholics) - • A Protestant Talks Wit...
Part 2 (Where I ask if Catholics believe Protestants are Christians) - • Are Protestants Christ...
Part 3 (Where I ask about Catholic beliefs about Mary) - • A Protestant Asks a Ca...
Part 4 - (Where I ask about praying to saints) - • Praying to the Saints?...
Part 5 - (Where I ask about violence in the name of the church) - • Is Violence In the Nam...
You can support conversations like this happening on the Internet at / tmbh
A protestant and a catholic walk into a bar...the food gets cold.
Food may be cold but the conversation is hott!
🤣🤣🤣
Well, when you get Dr. Holmes talking on this subject, trust me, that's not at all hard to do. I know from experience (I had him for theology for 2 years in college, and I've known him for a little over 9).
Was it a potluck or......
....and a Mormon walk outs..
I’m Catholic Japanese, and hope we all love each other as Christians
Yep, but i worry about that only half of us can inherit the kingdom of God, and there is only one way
Its a good concern. Just love even when you don't think they love you
@@oscarwong4201 it will be the side that chooses not to be judgmental jerks. They can come from all different Christian denomination.
@@tazmom0 Oh, hi Kim! So I take it those who prefer to tell the truth from the bible are "judgemental jerks", right?
@@kevinrtres you are telling YOUR truth from the King James version of the Bible. Other Christian denominations have different Bibles. Personally, I think most Evangelicals have a very distorted, self serving way of thinking. You seem to think you can say "Hallelujah, I am saved!" on Sunday, sin like crazy all week and think you are good to go to Heaven. Sorry bro, but that is ludicrous. Heaven is EARNED by accepting Jesus, following in his footsteps and asking for forgiveness when necessary. I don't need a Bible of any kind to figure that out.
The best advice in the Bible came from Mary.
"His mother said to the servants,"Do whatever he tells you."
-John 2:5
LOL! I have to tell my bible study group about this!
Amen Sister !!!
A catholic and amen!
@@pop3stealth97 you are deceived
@@jothePianoMaster13 you people always say that, and you THINK you have proof, but the actual truth is that non-Catholic Christians really don’t understand Catholic teaching. They are very deceived, and if they take just 10 mins to ask a Catholic what they believe, they will see how far they have been led astray from the truth of Catholicism. How do I know? I was raised Baptist, converted to the Catholic Church five years ago.
“...and all generations shall call me blessed.” Well, yes we sure do, we honor you our Blessed Mother! Just went to through RCIA with my fiancé and now in communion with the Catholic Church - I have never felt so alive! I finally feel like I’m home.
Yes chiara, she is called blessed among women. The RCC unfortunately allows the practise of veneration, intercession, prayers to mary which are forms of communication. She is neither omnipresent nor divine. This is taking it to the level of worship.
We pray to ONE GOD AND SAVIOUR!
@@fabiotuan5206 Catholics don't believe her to be omnipresent nor divine. Intercession of the saints in heaven works the same way intercession of the saints of earth does. She doesn't need to be divine because she doesn't answer any prayer by her own power, it's still God who does it. . We're not going to summon them with black magic nor try to find a medium, nor any other strange thing some Protestants like to imagine. This is what is wrong with talking to the ones who passed away: summoning strange spiritual forces instead of trusting God, but we're asking through God. We just believe the communion of saints which make us all part of the same body as long as we're on Christ (Rom 12,5) doesn't end with death (Rom 8,38-39). Death has no power on us, we treat the ones on heaven as the ones who live.
She doesn't need to be omnipresent either, because people on heaven knows what happens on earth (Lk 15,7-10) (Rev 6,10) and they carry our prayers to God (Rev 5,8).
Also, I do think the Bible makes a clear disctintion between veneration and adoration. The angels sent to Sodom (Gn 19,1), Elisha (2 K 2,15) and Daniel (Dn 2,46) were venerated because of their link to God, it becomes a problem only when there's adoration (Acts 10,25-26), (Rev 19,10).
Welcome home ❤️✝️✝️✝️
That was my same experience ☺️ Welcome home!!
U are blessed . The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist
I'm Catholic. I hope all Christian can be like this.. Talk like a real loving family. God bless all ✝️☦️❤️🤗
LOVE this comment bro, keep up the good work mario
My toughts exactly, i love the peasefull way of explaining and listen to each other. Realy inspiring ✝️☦💖
I’m Protestant, but y’all are awesome too. Love from you Christian brother!
See, this is what One Body of Christ means. We Christians may be divided in beliefs but we profess one faith. God bless us and may He guide us all. Praise the Lord our God!
@@SoldierJackson77 The body of Christ is broken due to our sins, but we're still united by His blood. Praise the Lord!
Speaking of Saints, St. Maximilian Kolbe said and I paraphrase: "Don't worry if you love Mary too much, you'll never love her more than Jesus does. "
Wow! That was beautiful!
Unless you love her more than you love Jesus. Then it is idolatry.
@@calebnelson7179 you see, that's a huge misunderstanding. Mary is great because she gave birth to Jesus. So, it doesn't make sense if you love Mary more than you love Jesus. As a Catholic, you would love Mary because she had the greatest privilege of all. No one has had the blessing to give birth to the Creator. No one has carried Jesus in her arms. No one cared for him, kissed him, and even spoke to him for 33 years.
If I had a minute with Jesus in this life I would be incredibly blessed. She had that opportunity for so long. Believe me, to love Mary is to actually recognize what God did with her. It is to call her blessed because the Almighty has done great things for her. Holy is his Name!
caleb nelson
We love Jesus more but we could say the same if you love your wife or mom more than it is idolatry, if you love anything or anyone more than God is idolatry.
@@RGTomoenage11 you're exactly right.
As a born and raised Protestant, currently serving as a deacon (and wrestling with a pull towards Catholicism or at minimum high church) this has quickly become my favorite TH-cam channel. Brother, keep doing this awesome work!
Keep seeking the truth brother. See Dr. Scott Hahn or Dr. Brant Petrie for some clarity on what Catholics actually believe.
You're almost home!
Not to sway but Lutherans are pretty cool 😉
Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews say that the place where one must worship is in Jerusalem.”
So you need a church building.?
No.! Sprint
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
I'm a Protestant who has no inclination towards Catholicism and I absolutely love this. Thank you for taking the time to help us better understand our Brothers and sisters in Christ so we can view them with respect. Your friend did a good job of helping me have more empathy for the Catholic position here. If only all of us could speak this respectfully with one another.
The Assumed Queen Mother Inamorata
Evry roman military encampment since 365 BCE has had an infimary called the valetudenaria. By this time, apprenticeship in medicine was already instituted. Young physicians run OJT training and were called Medicus Ordinaii and wer paid minimum wage salary. The physician doing rounds in jerusalem at the time of jesus and mary was a young apprentice named LUKE- the gospel writer. It was early advent of autopsies but medical charts during autopsies was already done on government sanctioned deaths of criminals. As infant and crude as it was, Luke declared jesus dead when water ran with blood during the heart strike of d centurion. He witnessed jesus disappear from d tomb in calcutta and did mention dis in his report. It was a medical anomaly. Dr. Luke also looked after the mother of Jesus christ - Mary. She died of natural causes, but due to family history, dr. luke knew she wud resurrect as well. And he was right thus his conversion and utmost belief in the mother and son partnership in heaven. Hence his investigation of the fading miraculous show-ups of the mother and son figures. This made him paint the Virgin masterpiece which was by this time now saintly hallowed on the head by virtue of post-death ascension as depicted in the vatican walls dating back to 1st century AD. The image is now the ultimate defense in the historicity of mother mary's heavenly veto power.
I left Protestantism this year and after seriously studying Catholicism I am on the verge of becoming Catholic.
But with that said, Matt you are my favourite Protestant TH-camr.
Keep up the good work bud👍🏻
God bless.
One of my college roommates followed that path. And now I have a family in my church that left Islam and then Catholicism to become Protestants. Funny thing, life.
@@BM-si2ei
Sure is.
God bless.
@@Jordan-1999
Protestant for 44 years, was a very active apologist and lay philosopher. Then one day, my wife asked me a question about the Catholic church, which sent me into a 5 year journey culminating with myself and my family entering the Catholic Church.
@@tysonguess
Wow 44 years is a long time.
I've only been a Christian for just over 3 years.
But around January this year, was when I started to seriously look into Catholicism. Before that the church I went to taught that the Catholic Church was bad, and for most of my Protestant life I felt resentment towards the Catholic Church.
Let's just say that the church I attended wasn't fond of Catholicism.
But now I realise most of the reasons why they didn't like Catholicism was due to misunderstanding what Catholics actually believe and what they actually teach.
God bless.
@@Jordan-1999
I experienced hostility as well. Even just by asking questions at times. I've thought alot about it and I think it comes down to this:
The legitimacy of Protestantism depends upon the Catholic church being false whereas a Catholic is taught that Protestants are saved, they just don't have the whole truth. So Catholicism doesn't depend upon Protestantism being false but Protestants inherently seem to understand that Protestantism depends upon the Catholic church being false.
....and yeah. I did not have one correct belief about what the Catholic Church taught. My head was filled with all the common caricatures of the Catholic church most Protestants have in their minds.
I love when a Catholic and Protestant can sit down and be nice in their disagreement. If only we could discuss politics in this manner.
But too be honest, the protestant wasn't really bringing the protestant perspective into the discussion.
The Catholic Church is the oldest and largest criminal organization on this planet... quite a few Protestant religions followed her criminal acts such as Colonialism, Forced conversions, promoting/supporting Wars, Politics, Teaching lies as doctrines,etc etc...they will be dealt a massive blow in the coming great tribulation..(Revelation 17 &18)...😑
I like your spirit, but why do Christians always feel the need to "be nice"? The truth is going to separate people, and theology matters, that's why the reformation happened in the first place. I love my Catholic brothers and sisters, but any man made belief system that goes against God's word, in MULTIPLE ways isn't for me. I'll stick with my KJV!
AMEN.
@@RobertGarcia-wb4hy in what ways?
There’s no yelling and no disrespect between the two. It’s like they love and respect one another. We need so much more of this
former protestant here! I converted last January to catholicism! I love this channel, enthough not a catholic channel.
Welcome home! 😊
Change back
Converted in 94
So you have abandoned trusting God's word, and started trusting an institution.
@@Mr.Truxton Which institution determined which books would go in the Bible? Go read the Fathers, please.
Really hits home for me. When I became Catholic after being Protestant for my entire Christian life, Mary was the final piece that fell into place. It’s exactly as he said. The Presence in the Eucharist, the Saints and so on all came pretty easy to me. But Mary was the last “hurdle”. Thanks be to God, He eventually gave me the understanding I needed.
Remember, Mary’s entire mission in her existence is to point people to her Son. She is the moon. She has no light of her own. But she reflects the light of the sun so that we may find our way to Him.
I still don't get it. Why do people pray to Mary as intercessor?
@The Lesser Confessor the Bible says thou shalt have no other Gods before me, correct? Youre saying I should pray to Mary? I'll follow God's word, thank you, you can keep the Catholic idolatry.
@@RobertGarcia-wb4hy Catholics dont consider Mother Mary as God. Its just like your friend asking you to pray for him/her. We pray to God and we ask Mother Mary to pray for us too.
@@RobertGarcia-wb4hy Correct we said you should pray to Mary. NOT WORSHIP her. The problem is one of language. Why do you think praying is the same as worshiping? Who taught you that false teaching and why do you follow false prophets?
Monisha Nickolas Mary isn’t praying for you, she’s busy in heaven worshipping Jesus.
As a Reformed Presbyterian, I am not uncomfortable with the veneration of Mary. The language used on Mary is close to the language used for God but it never lands, because when you read and learn in detail about the nature of God, the character of God, and the name of God, the lines of what is Divine becomes clear and the language used by our Catholic brethren don't cross that line.
So yeah, blessed is the Virgin Mary who is favored above all women, Mother of Jesus, Queen of Heaven & the Angels, the New Eve, and the Holy Ark of the Covenant.
None of those titles are offensive because it doesn't claim the status of YHVH.
Queen of heaven? Don't you think that it remembers the cananite cult of Astaroth?
Reina del Cielo, no crees tú que eso nos recuerda el culto caananita a Astarote?
Creo que decirle a la bienaventurada Maria "Reina del Cielo" es demasiado.
Josué Inhan no
@@josueinhan8436 creo que quizo decir Reina de los Ángeles..no del cielo. De todas maneras si Jesus es el Rey quien más podría ser la Reina? Salvando siempre las diferencias de que Jesús es 100% divino y 100% hombre y María más allá de la Inmaculada concepción es 100% ser humano..aunque Llena de Gracia..cosa que ningún ser humano ha vivido
Read Revelations 12:1-5.
@@josueinhan8436Soy católico. Reina del Cielo porque es reina madre, igual que en las madres de los monarcas judíos en el libro de los Reyes. Nunca queremos decir que sea consorte de Dios, igual a Él en poder ni nada por el estilo, ¡eso sería herejía!
For me honestly, Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox are all my brothers and sisters, One God, One Christ, One salvation.
As a Catholic, I also think ecumenism is the way... Division is nothing but the work of Satan. The purpose of Christianity is to bind people... Btw, I truly think the West is having a hard time because it is too divided. "The individual is the ultimate minority."
We must pursue together in the common faith!
The Bible is God Breathed, God is three in one, Jesus is God incarnate and lived a sinless life, Jesus died on the cross with and for our sins, Jesus resurrected three days after his death, Jesus ascended to the right hand of God, Jesus will return again for the believers, and if we believe into him and repent we are saved!
These 8 truths are what we need to come together on. We need to quit our bickering about the doctrines and practices we participate in.
Eph 4:13 “until we arrive at the oneness of the faith...”
ALL should agree with that as fundamental.
Careful. Theology matters. I like your spirit of brotherly love, but theology matters. The Catholic church repeatedly goes contrary to God's word. In so many places. The bible is the authority for me, not religious tradition.
@@RobertGarcia-wb4hy Luther beat you to the punch on that.
This year I am beginning my conversion to Catholicism. I dream one day all of Christianity will be reunited, I want nothing if not that.
Congratulations from a fellow convert! May Mary lead you ever closer to the Sacred Heart of her Son.
Awesome
Revelation 18:4 literally talks about Roman Catholicism, I want you to open your goddamn eyes and know the truth and that verse and try to understand that
@@Watermelon-dj8be Babylon is code for Rome. Not Catholicism...lol. Silly Anticatholic. Smh
@@MNskins11 Roman Catholicism comes from Vatican and who worships Mary ?? Roman Catholics worship Mary who’s a sinner
I hope the fried chicken gets eaten in future episodes
Actually I think they’re waffle fries
SAME
They’re getting cold after these months
i'm afraid the food has gone bad now ..
@@wesleyrice8350 They are
Hail MARY, Full of Grace. Lord is with you. Blessed are you among Women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. JESUS
Holy MARY, Mother of God. Pray for us Sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen
Viva Yeshua 🙏 Ave Maria 🙏 St. Joseph🙏
Ave Maria gratia plena ora pro nobis
Mary has no divine character to be worshiped
Jesus does
@@charbelsakr8107 Who said to worship her..??
The bible says we already have an intercessor for us, and that is Jesus. Nothing says to pray to Mary or saints. Theres also the subject of praying to statues and material objects.
@@ANISHALBS
Prayer is worship
Matt, you make me want to have more conversations with my Protestant brothers and sister. Praying for you!
Thanks!
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Dude Catholicism is Christianity Mixed with Paganism, It's disgusting, Altho they believe in trinity as well, they do rituals, pray to saints/mary, Call another Man/Human "Father" , they have the demonic heretic pope,
the vatican = wicked, rosary = Useless/Not biblical, Hahaha they make me laugh, they are a joke, They aint Real Christians, Holy Bible (Never uses the word Catholic)
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Answer me dude, I don't even claim a denomination, I AM Christian , A Christ Follower, Without rituals, I grew up going to a Baptist Church & Pentecostal & A Spanish church (Not sure what denomination) I agree w/ Evangelical David Lynn , "I am a Christian"
@@jesussaveslives512 how could he answer if you haven't asked the question?
@@jesussaveslives512 how would you not know the doctrinal distinctives of the Spanish church you attended?
Sounds hokey.
Don't you get taught in Sunday school?
From agnosticism/atheism to God to Jesus to "any flavor of Protestant" to - can't believe it - Catholic. My 30-year journey in one sentence. Your questions here, along with your friendship, dialogue and sharing is so important! Mary was my last block to fall as a Catholic. I actually left it as something I trusted would be totally resolved once inside her Church. It was. But your discussion broadened my appreciation of her role. Thank you so much for these discussions. We need more dialogue with friends and less debate intended to club our opponents.
I have to say these are great videos! I was on a road trip when I was listening to the first video, and I listened to it a few times and then when I got home I also played it for my wife. In the end we did a study of church history, and now we are in the midst of joining the Catholic Church.
God bless you and your family, Justin!
Congrats! I'm in RCIA too. Just be careful because lots people might be negative towards you, even family.
Welcome home Justin, God bless you and your family.
Concerning Mary, I can't recommend too much "Jesus and the Jewish roots of Mary" by Brant Pitre. If you really are interested : most of the biblical basis are there.
This book is excellent, and for a second, it sounded like Dr. Jeremy was pulling directly from that when made the connections between the Wedding Feast of Cana, the Crucifixion, and Revelation 12.
@@josephcollier1028 could also be "Hail, holy queen" by Scott Hahn, no ?
Quidam there is some good root information about Christianity and what Jewish communality have. But many typology and verses taking out of context also. I read the book by Brant Pitre with my bible open. God Bless!
Yes a very useful book with great biblical insights
All that Catholics believe about Mary points to the divinity of Jesus.
Bingo!
You are right my brother!
Amen 🔔
Mary has no divine character
Jesus does
@@charbelsakr8107 haha....i think you mean "nature", not "character".
And yes, Catholics believe only Jesus has a divine nature.
Mary was not chosen at random. God foresaw her life and chose her.
I agree, but at the end of the day she is still a human being she cannot hear you're prayers . The only mediator between man and God is Jesus christ
Not just foresaw but provided a way for Emanuel to physically enter into this world through a clean grace filled vessel---via The Immaculate Conception.
God used a lot of women and men but he is the only way to the father praying to a man or woman is idol worship.
Catholics don't pray 'to' saints but speak to them (trusting that God will allow them to hear) to ask them to pray for us. Much like many people of faith or not will speak to their departed loved ones.
Solagratia I agree with all but for the part that she cannot hear your prayers. Saints are more alive than we are and they take our prayers before the throne of God as shown in revelation.
As an atheist, I love seeing two intelligent people having these in depth conversations!
@SkillsDND Well, the most atheist and antireligious century, the 20st century, did pretty well when it comes to war...
@SkillsDND Or your rule on earth.
@SkillsDND Maybe just a 7 day war, a miracle is what you seek?
@SkillsDND Please tell me how Israel is still a nation, as God said it would be in the bible? Surrounded by those that love God. You can start by ruling yourself. If you believe this life is not a war between you, and yourself, you are mistaken.
Your love is not agape love. Would you like to try and love someone more than yourself?
I had this conversation about Mary with my protestant family. It's very simple, if you have a worship that doesn't go past thoughts and songs (protestant worship). Then what we ascribe to Mary looks like worship. If you understand worship as partaking the Sacrament of Holy Eucharistic its soooooo obvious what we ascribe to Mary isnt even a million light years close to worship.
Well said.
@SkillsDND Weak Catholics become Protestants. Strong Protestants become Catholics. We know where you fall.
P. Doetsch Your pride in that statement is actually disgusting. 🙄 You need to pray for humility.
@@Becca_Lynn It's not my statement, it's a well known saying. Judge not less ye be judged is also a well known statement from Christ. Yes, humility is a great virtue, and you need plenty more of it, Becca.
@@p.doetsch6209 Dude you're funny. Look who's talking. You accuse her of judging, then you turn around and do the very thing you accuse her of.
Such an authentic discussion, thank you so much! I’m Catholic, praying for the day we are all in communion.
You have been the bridge that my brother and I need!! As kids we were catholic- I am the oldest sister to my brother- 14 yrs older. I accepted Christ in 1970 shortly after getting married at 20 yrs old. My little brother followed suit, but in the past year has been drawn back into Catholicism, he posed questions and doctrines to me, and I didnt want to discourage his search, yet of course I want him to find truth in his walk...and then I found you!!😉😊❤ thank you for what you're doing!!
According to Henry Bordeaux, the chivalric influence was not a source of Marian devotion, it was the other way around: the Marian devotion shaped the chivalric attitude towards the lady.
Loved this conversation. Thanks for the incredible work you’re doing!
Gospel Simplicity watches this channel too?! I love your videos man!
Phil I’m a long time fan of Matt’s work. Interesting story, the day I first met with an Orthodox priest to discuss theology and was introduced to the world of the church fathers was the day Matt’s first video on EO came out. I got the alert sitting in the parking lot. My channel is indebted to his in many ways, and if people only had one subscribe to give out, I’d point them his way before mine. Thanks for the kind words about the channel. I’m so glad you’re enjoying it. God bless!
Love your channel btw!
@@GospelSimplicity i enjoyed your channel too. Thank you for your attitude ! We need more of you out there.
Matt is one of the smartest Protestant argumentators I've ever come across on TH-cam. Part of me sees his brilliance being soothed eventually by the Catholic faith, but I'm happy for now to wait just a little longer if it means hearing him go pound-for-pound against my Catholic bros and adding to their rigor. God bless, dude.
Let me just say, I truly appreciate your courage and approach to hashing these things out. I was raised spirit filled "protestant," questioned whether I truly believed in Jesus and what I was taught at 20, came back to Christ through a phylisophical and somewhat theological approach. Then at 28 God orchestrated circumstances to bring me to working on the alter of a catholic church, that drew me to ask a lot of questions and gain understanding, of an understanding I had never been privy to, even though I had neighbors and relatives who were Catholic. I did become Catholic eventually, but have wrestled with the theology as I've dealt with the hurts of division, assumption, and disrespect or rejection before even having a conversation, not because of preaching but simply saying, well I actually hold this understanding. What I've come to learn is that Catholic theology is the most sound out there, but it's still being hashed out, and even some of the wording though not wrong, or off course, it does lack the fullness or grace of the Spirit. My hope is that we can grow better together to operate freely in the spirit, but in Unity of understanding and teaching of the Word. One thought I've had. " God's the God of Math and physics right? He's the God of Science and biology right? Wouldn't he also then be the God of phylosophy and theology?". In all things there is right or wrong, true or false, moral or debase. The grey areas are in our understanding and beliefs, am I right?
What I've come to learn to do is to question and seek, looking at the arguments, understanding, or teaching of any side, testing it against the word, but praying through the Spirit that truth be revealed. It's not always an easy process, but if you are working to continue in truth and spirit, I don't know another way. I appreciate both sides of my faith formation, being 39 now, but I've found it very difficult to participate in both arenas, and be genuine and free, in discussing my understanding and beliefs, without judgement or persecution, mostly so with anyone with higher authority in a particular church, even if you're only having a one on one with another parishioner or member, and they overhear. I've literally been asked to leave, without discussion, because a person wasn't willing to take time to discuss, or ask me to handle myself differently. Some of those have been people I really respected. It's a tough and sad thing to experience, but still in the groanings of salvation I guess.
Thank you to all who are willing to get to know or glean understanding from one another, or who show respect, to define and set boundaries, when they don't have the time or patience to.
I know it’s been 2 years but if you think catholic theology is sound you should check out the Orthodox Church.
Coming in the comments 2 years late haha I'm a Christian and fall under Protestantism by default. Been researching many parts of Catholic theology. Would be interested to ask you some questions - especially about what you mean by "fullness of grace and the spirit."
I'll hitch my waggon to previous comments.
The final video will be the two of them just eating wings without a word spoken.
Like in _The Avengers._
I. WANT. THAT.
Actually, scratch that
I. NEED. THAT.
please, not very close to the mic tho, I hate the sound of chewing.
@@graciouscompetentdwarfrabbit chicken wing ASMR
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God. I love the tone of grace and understanding being radiated in this conversation.
22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. (2 Timothy 2:22-25, ESV)
If we're to be ones who can 'patiently endure evil' from opponents, surely we can also be patient toward other members of Christ's own body as we strive for mutual healing. My church has been praying for this for some time, and it's awesome to see others picking up the same flag. Seems God is moving his people to be thinking more in this way as a whole.
@NightHawkInLight so cool to see you in the comment section on a couple of recent videos here. Your videos helped me with my highschool science projects, and I’m so glad to know you’re a brother in Christ. The peace of Christ be with you!
So interesting to see you here! I love your channel and had no idea you were a man of faith as well.
God bless you, cheers
And yet, Jesus stirred up the Pharisees so much that they killed Him.
And the apostles swirled the whole world and got themselves killed as well.
Soooo yea, context.
@@ElficGuy Yep, those things sure happened. However, I don't think that was because Jesus and the apostles were given to quarreling. Sometimes seeking peace and loving your enemies gets you killed.
@@Nighthawkinlight Jesus liked to pick fights with the Farisees, no doubt.
As a Christian whose faith is based in solo scriptura, in the reformation, and in the early church: this video was quite revealing of my critical spirit. Thank you for showing me a way to think rather than react regardless of our theological positions. Wish we could see this in politics today.
Peace out! Take care.
Yes you have a point with evangelical Christians coming on hard in differences to prove they are right. But consider that while it is great to go over where we agree, we still have to have a conversation on what scripture says where we are not on agreement because it is all important. While we both can’t be right, Baptism, Salvation, sacraments & Mary we need to with Bible open address these according to God’s word. We can do this with love & respect for each other.
This is one of the best forums I’ve seen for theological discussions. Thanks. Keep it up.
Devotion to Mary began before the Gospel of Luke was written. That's why the parallel between the Ark of the Covenant going to the hill country and Mary going to visit Elizabeth in the hill country was drawn. To show she was filled with the Holy Spirit, the Presence of God and she was carrying God Incarnate in her womb. Later John wrote in Rev 11:19-12:1 that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant.
No, because luke-acts was written during the first century and Marian dogma did not exist in the church at that point, they were still considered a sect of Judaism. There's also no evidence in the text that John is talking about Mary as the Ark in Revelation, because the earthly Ark and Tabernacle was a replica of the heavenly.
@@dandeliontea7 Marian devotion was developed before the Gospel of John and Revelation because John refers to her as "Woman" harking back to Genesis chapter 3. In Revelation Chapter 11:19 and Chapter 12 Mary is described as the Ark of the Covenant. This isn't isolated as Luke Chapter 2 describes Mary going to the hill country in a similar manner at David sent the Ark to the hill country before taking it to Jerusalem. Then after the Birth of Jesus, Mary took him to Jerusalem. The parallels are too many and would not have to be told otherwise. Both Luke and John saw her as the Ark of the New Covenant.
@@deaconken3752 no, it wasn't. Marian devotion was not part of 1st century Christianity, in fact the epistles make no mention of her and Acts also.
@@deaconken3752 there is literally nothing in Revelation 11 and 12 that describes Mary as the Ark, it's two different visions given to John.
Also Mary didn't remain a virgin for life, she did the horizontal tango with Joseph and had other children.
A conversation between you and Matt Fradd would be awesome!
I second this motion
I'm just continually impressed by your tone and discussions! Fantastic work as usual.
So pleased there are more of these, as I really enjoy hearing the conversations. They always give me a spiritual lift and everyday is a school day with this channel.
I pray you can both visit Walsingham, England and film your experience there. God bless and keep joyful
This is a great conversation. I am a believer in CHRIST, and I consider myself very catholic in my thinking. I do agree that more conversations like this need to happen, and we need to experience the fullness of salvation within the body of CHRIST first before we expect that salvation to overflow to the rest of creation. Honest conversations and considerations like this are very important to that reality.
I tried to rationalize and justify how not to become Catholic, I had an internal war trying to stay Baptist.
I like my Baptist background. Though I do have some Lutheran views as well.
@Jorge Roque. I would like to suggest that you investigate what the Early Church believed in, the history of the bible and the Church from neutral, credible sources. Look into Catholic doctrines from official Catholic sources- not what Protestants think Catholics believe but what Catholics really believe. The truth will set you free.
@@jeremiahong248 I think I expressed myself incorrectly. I was Baptist until I could not fight anymore against the evidence. I am in full communion with The Church now, I am Catholic.
@@BikeRideTherapy God bless you and keep you !
The main attraction in catholism is the mass. A priest ( sinner) calling down the Holy of Holy's into literal form, imagine that what arrogance.
All true believers have the Holy Spirit. Is Jesus and the Holy Spirit different ? Talk about contradictions. Then again this is just another part of the already distorted theology of the RCC . God Bless the reformation!
I made a new friend recently (She's Baptist; I'm Catholic). We talked to each other for a bit and found a lot in common in terms of political, video game, and most importantly spiritual sensibilities. Thanks to this video, I'm very excited for if and or when we talk about the differences in our beliefs.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is a with thee. Blessed are thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of or death. Amen.
There is no idolatry in the adoration of our Blessed Mother. Like the other commentators said in regard to Dr Brant Pitre’s lecture, she (in the mindset of first century Jewish society) is the Queen Mother as the mother of the king and acts as the most powerful intercessor to him. As such, Catholics, venerate her and appreciate her closeness to Jesus. So much more to it than that. But Dr Pitre explains it wonderfully.
Queen of Heaven, yes?
There is no queen mother in the kingdom of God. Mary is never referred to as such. She is a sister in Christ and part of the bride of Christ.
@igor lopes
The 'rules' apply in a very narrow way. Messianic prophecies apply to Him via His geneology, kinsmen redeemer, ruling from the throne of David etc...But Gods first plan for Israel was not a monarchy, but rather a theocracy. The people rejected their God and wanted a king like the other nations. They got what they asked for, including all the failings of a monarchy. So in the kingdom of heaven, the 'rules' of the Davidic kingdom do not apply because now we don't get a vote. Its a theocracy. And there is no queen in Gods theocracy.
Thankyouuuu finally someone who understands.
@igor lopes Jesus' lineage is through David so sure i have no problem with that. But there is no monarchy in heaven. Its a theocracy. There is no queen in heaven. Mary is one of us, part of the bride. Not the queen.
Sometimes I wish the conversation about Mary wasn't always so focused on the dogmatic positions the Catholic Church has taken on her that make many Protestants uncomfortable and more on why so many Protestants practically ignore her. I grew up as Presbyterian never hearing a sermon about Mary. Ever. If you'd mentioned the Magnificat to me, I wouldn't have even known what that was (I'm sure that isn't representative of all Presbyterianism, just my personal experience.) I don't think my Protestant background reflected on her role at all outside of Christmas, and even then hardly at all. We get more about Mary's internal thoughts than any woman in the New Testament and she is present at his first miracle, death, resurrection and pentecost and the significance of all that is just sidestepped by most Protestants. The Bible itself pays more attention to Mary than most Protestants are willing to admit.
That’s not prejudice against Mary. At least, I wouldn’t assume that. Rather, it’s that to plumb the depths of who Jesus Christ IS, who the Father IS, and who the Holy Spirit IS, overshadows all else, just as young Mary was overshadowed by the Godhead. We know Mary is the Proverbs 31 woman. And - your church may be unusual. I have heard SERIOUS teaching on Mary - preached from the Bible at a pulpit. In fact, to understand the Bible is a lifetime pursuit and study therein shines beautiful light upon Mary. I think Mariology, in fact, cheapens her a great deal. Or, I should say, it does her profound disservice.
@@KristiLEvans1 while I'm glad to hear you have heard serious teaching about Mary- I wish that has been the case at my Presbyterian churches I was raised in- I think it's an error to say Mariology detracts from a closeness to God in some way. In fact, I think that's the underlying source of one of the biggest divides between Catholics/Orthodox/Anglo-Catholics and most Protestants: that a lot of the times Protestant theology almost frames there to be a competition between God and His creation. That is false. Yes, our God is a jealous God. But the communion of saints *are* the Body of Christ. We don't detract from our love of Jesus by paying attention to them. It's the opposite. Our love of God is *amplified* by honoring and marvelling at them, and Mary is no exception.
James Cannon i didn’t say Mariology detracts from the closeness of God. Mariology does a grave disservice to Mary.
@@KristiLEvans1 interesting.. I mean it truly is a personal, individual thing though isn't it? Marian devotion is not something any Christian (Roman Catholics included) is *required* to partake in. Things like the Rosary are very much private devotions. I certainly think the way that some in the church have hyper-focused on Mary's virginity has historically been weaponised against women in contexts that have had some disastrous, painful consequences, so I'm not totally disagreeing that the way she has been viewed in the hearts of Christians as a whole has always been beneficial or fruitful.
Not to worship Mary we have to worship only to the son of God he who God was please him only Jesus Christ He is Alpha and omega Mary we believe only the mother of Jesus on earth but we never worship her all the Christianity only to Jesus Christ we have to praise and worship Him
I greatly appreciate these Catholic and Protestant discussions. Thank you for providing opportunity for the family to understand each other.
Man , these are some of the most helpful, healthy dialogues I have ever seen between a protestant and a Catholic. I wished I could listen to yall talk for hours adressing, purgatory, confession, infant babtism, it really helps me to learn and understand their perspective on how and why they hold to different ideas differently. My girlfriend was catholic and her whole family is catholic but now she is heavily involved in a protestant non-denominational church that I work at. She really cant articulate ideas that she grew up believing and still somewhat believes, just tremenously helpful. I cant wait to be able to have a more informed discussion next time we come to talk about some of these things.
I really like that Dr. Holmes, does he have his own channel?
Laurie Barron Wasn't it on streaming TV, 'Peaky Blinders'? 🤣
Not that I've heard at least, and I've known him for over 9 years. The college he works at has it's own channel, though.
I just now discovered that he does have a Twitter, though. Google his name and it will come up.
I'm not up on the twitter 😅, but thanks though!
I'm a Protestant and I've come to believe in Mary. Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. She points us towards Jesus. I see her as the embodiment of the Church, where Jesus is the head. Take the miracle at Canaan, it wouldn't have happened without Mary's motherly, presumptuous, asking. She said yes at the beginning and she was there to the end. Jesus gives her to us as mother on the cross. She is the mediatrix of God's grace (Jesus). Without her, there was no 2nd invasion of Canaan across the Jordan, no first coming of Christ. She was God's chosen vector to reclaim the nation's and carry Jesus to the world. But none of this makes sense if you hold a low view of the church or just see salvation as an assent to certain principles. But, if you begin to see the church, in its physicality as the being who is saved and us as members of that body and the sacraments as God's vehicle of grace then this stuff makes sense. I mean, Jesus actually physically had to be incarnated, he had to physically become sin, he had to truly die and was physically resurrected to save us. It wasn't just spiritual or simply an idea but real tangible actions, with flesh and blood consequences. If you consider that Jesus himself set this blood stained, sacramental pattern - earning salvation for us in his real body and spilt blood, then it is not hard to see how that same salvation is communicated to us today, physically - accordingly to the plain meaning of scripture, which we see in John 6.41 which he really cranks up in 51 and drives home in 53. People didn't abandon him because Jesus was taking in mere metaphor. When I first became a Christian I spiritualised those bits that didn't accord with my enlightenment assumptions but as I've come to increasingly accept the Bible on its own terms, to accept it's supernatural foundations and not pick and choose scriptures which matched my preferences and my denomination - I had to let go of this intellectualism, metaphorical, Jesus was only talking spiritually belief. And when I started to accept this physicality and the centrality of a tangible, institutional, apostolic church then this stuff just started to fall in to place. This is quite controversial to many protestants so I tend to hide my beliefs, but I just feel it opens the Christian life up to something richer, more physical and less dependent on me, my beliefs, my assent, my works. Anyway, that's my journey. I hope you found it interesting. Thanks for reading
You may not know it yet, but you’re a Catholic. ;) Welcome home! I was a Catholic for a while before I knew it, and it was a difficult journey to get that knowledge from my head to my heart but it was so, so worth it! I will pray for you on your journey. Your words here were beautiful!
*The Protestant Problem :*
Mary was formally separated from Protestant worship and prayer in the 16th century; in the 20th century the divorce is complete. Even the singing of the 'Magnificat' caused the Puritans to have scruples, and if they gave up the Apostles' Creed, it was not only because of the offensive adjective 'Catholic', but also because of the mention of the Virgin . . . [But] Calvin, like Luther and Zwingli, taught the perpetual virginity of Mary. The early Reformers even applied, though with some reticence, the title Theotokos to Mary . . . Calvin called on his followers to venerate and praise her as the teacher who instructs them in her Son's commands.
{J.A. Ross MacKenzie (Protestant), in Stacpoole, Alberic, ed., Mary's Place in Christian Dialogue, Wilton, Conn.: Morehouse-Barlow, 1982, pp.35-6}
Well said
Destynation Q Mariology is not Biblical. Mariology was founded in the 3rd C. AD. It’s a different foundational belief system from Sola Scriptura.
If you have a connection with Mary, I suggest praying the rosary. It's not as scary or boring or whatever as it sounds. It's life changing. The rosary is a meditation on the life and suffering of Jesus through the eyes of his mother (you actually touched on a lot of the mysteries of the rosary in the Scripture you mentioned). As you pray, you meditate on the event, the scripture, what it must have felt like, etc.
Praying the rosary has changed my life. I have never felt closer to or more loved by Jesus. Blessings on your journey!
If you're interested, the TH-cam channel Many Hail Marys at a Time is really amazing
These videos with the professor are gold. I wish you didn’t make us wait so long for the rest of the conversation!
I have really enjoyed this series, cant wait for the next one to drop!
I appreciate the discussion between the two of you! The Catholic view still doesn’t make sense to me, but it’s nice to know where they’re coming from.
If you’re honestly interested in seeing how one comes to the Catholic mindset, I recommend Rome Sweet Home and Hail Holy Queen by Dr. Scott Hahn. He was a Presbyterian seminary professor and minister who converted. Those books were instrumental in my own conversion. He’s a concise, skilled writer. They aren’t long, and you’ll come away having a pretty thorough understanding.
Wait, how would the Catholic position be the one that doesn't make sense? Protestants just popped up 16 centuries in and threw away most Christian doctrines in favor of a radical (and looking back, naive) view that scripture is totally clear (perspicuity of scripture, sola scriptura) and the Christian doesn't need an authority to hold us to orthodoxy. Well, considering how quickly that crumbled into tens of thousands of little churches making it up as they go along, I'd say that didn't work out too well. I was born and raised Protestant but two of my sibling and I converted to Catholic for similar reasons.
As a cradle Catholic I can understand the notion of not understanding the other side. To me many Protestant faiths seem to be of much simpler doctrine, but I have noticed those doctrine tend to be at least very lacking, and at worst in error. I know a lot of Protestants reject tradition, but without it the early Christian would have never been able to grow, and the church would have died with the apostles. Remember that there was no bible until the 5th century, and it was the Catholic church that assembled it.
Garth Vader In fact, to liberally paraphrase Benedict XVI, all forms of revelation - from current rabbinic Judaism to Byzantine Christianity (Orthodoxy), Protestantism to Islam, to the more recent scripture cults, what they all offer is a form of 'reduced' Catholicism. Just chew on that thought and it will 'make sense'. And Catholicism in spite of all reforms and fads, has stubborned retained its 'Traditions'. 😆 Weird, no?
@Courtney Schroeder
Courtney,
It is understandable.
However we can't apply human ways to God's actions.
First, it is revealed truth that through Eve all humans born of a woman inherit original sin. Mary, however, is exempted from all sin by God's fullness of grace granted to Her alone in order for the Son of God not to, even indirectly, be stained by the sin of Adam, inherited by humans, for which all must be baptized.
As you know God is all powerful and He, in His sovereignty, can grant any grace He pleases. Therefore HE DOES IT in the case of the Virgin Mary when God said He will put ENMITY between satan and the woman.
What woman?
DEFINITELY NOT EVE!
Eve sinned by saying NO to God.
Who could it be?
IT CAN ONLY BE MARY!
Mary said YES to God and she was
clearly called "FULL OF GRACE" BY GOD, through the Angel.
Therefore, God is Mary's savior because He created her free of all sin, or full of grace.
How does the Old Testament reveals her involvement in bringing about our future salvation?
▪︎ISAIAH 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold A VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called IMMANUEL.
(Immanuel = God with us)
It is well established that for God to dwell anywhere, such place must be of absolute purity. NO SIN can touch Him, therefore Mary will be revealed totally pure by God through the words of His Angel in:
▪︎LUKE 1:28
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: HAIL, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Furthermore, Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit because the SHEKINAH, impregnated her:
▪︎LUKE 1:34-35
34 And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I HAVE NO HUSBAND?”
35 And the angel said to her,
"THE HOLY SPIRIT will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will OVERSHADOW YOU; therefore the child to be born of you will be called holy, the "Son of God".
•The term "overshadow" used by the Angel Gabriel at Luke 1:35 describes the SHEKINAH or the glory-cloud that also rests upon the Ark of the Covenant, as read in:
▪︎EXODUS:40:34'35
34 Then THE CLOUD COVERED THE TENT of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.
35 AND MOSES WAS NOT ABLE TO ENTER THE TENT of meeting, because THE CLOUD ABODE UPON IT, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.
In the following passage we read how it is impossible for any human to be where God has dwelled, as in the case of Mary's womb.
▪︎EZEKIEL 44:2-3
2 The Lord said to me: This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.
3 Only the prince, because he is a prince, may sit in it to eat food before the Lord; he shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.
Therefore, Mary's virginity and her remaining absolutely pure forever happens only because God the Son dwelled in her womb, becoming Mother of God, according to the Holy Spirit, as revealed in:
▪︎LUKE 1:41-43
41. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and ELIZABETH WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
42. and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!
43. And why is this granted me, that THE MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?
Therefore, Mary could never be born with a sin that could be passed on to Jesus, her all-pure son, who is also Son of God and where the shekinah, the glory-cloud rests upon Mary, the all pure Ark of the New Covenant.
May God bless your discernment.
My starting point to finding sort of a first understanding about the veneration of Mary (instead of shrinking back from idolatry) was the question:
So if for the major part of christianity and throughout the history of the church this is a valid and important part of their christian faith - who am I to call it idolatry? This gave me to think and helped to begin to accept this part of my catholic siblings, and then little by little to try and to understand more. By now I'm catholic and am on good terms with her ;) I even pray the rosary from time to time, as a contemplation of the mysteries of Jesus' life.
The rosary is such a powerful prayer, I love It! 🌹📿
So do you pray TO her?
@@MrsYoung-in9ov In my personal prayer, no.
Or, if I think about her from time to time it's more like sympathy, thinking that she would have known this herself. You see, I am quite knew to the idea. Sometimes I might even say or think: Mary (or St. N.N.), what would you say to this, how would you act? Can I ask you to pray for me - like I would ask a friend?
In the rosary it's the known request "Hail Mary - Jesus who ... - pray for us".
@@MrsYoung-in9ov Mary is there so why not pray to her?
@@gustavmahler1466 I think he was more so having an issue with the language because for me as a Catholic from birth, I can say I pray to Mary or to a saint without it sounding wrong to me because I have internalized the nuances, which a new convert may not internalize: within Catholic practice we don't literally pray to Mary or to saints because prayer is only meant for God instead we pray with Mary and the Saints not to them. We ask Mary and the Saints to accompany us in prayer and intercede on our behalf, which is to speak to God with us or for us because they are in his presence, and since we internalize this we may just say we pray to Mary or pray to the saints.
I have waited SOOOOOOOOOO long for this!!!
I thoroughly appreciate and enjoy this conversation! I grew up Catholic, turned Protestant as an adult, yet hold my Catholic roots in high regard. It hurts me to see the innate division between brothers and sisters who really have more in common than they may realize. I do appreciate the call for conversation and what unites us, not what divides. Looking forward to hearing more!
That's true!
I too was raised catholic but now hold a protestant view.
@@fabiotuan5206 What exactly changed your mind ? Respectfully asking...
I'm an atheist and I love this.
you should see Ravi Zacharias' talks as well...absolutely great man & speaker
@@royalbirb2090 yes he was. I will miss his humble voice and wisdom.
@@royalbirb2090 Ravi is one who I call my mentor. He lived by Christ and now he lives with Christ, how blessed.
Why?
@@royalbirb2090 this comment didn't age well lol
You and Dr. Holmes are very charitable and thoughtful. I've solidified my Catholic understanding with the help of Catholic Answers. I recommend getting Tim Staples, Steve Ray, Trent Horn, etc. They are huggable homies
As a Protestant who converted to Catholicism, it was important to me as I studied Mary to remember that everything about her is all related to Jesus, not in and of herself. She reflects Jesus attributes. She carried Jesus in her womb. So what does that mean, can Jesus who is sinless be in a person who is not. I realize as Protestants we really don't think deeply about what does that actually mean. Once you start going down that path things will open up about your thoughts about Mary. At least it did for me. Tim Staples and Scott Hahn have excellent books that help anyone have a deeper understanding about Mary and her role.
Immaculate heart of Mary pray for us sinners now 🙏
Thanks, it's sooo nice to hear this. This is wonderful, as a catholic and latinamerican who is a very deeply devotee of Mary
Another cliffhanger!! Can't wait.
Also, Protevangelium. Genesis 3:15. Refers to the Virgin birth. Another reason for the importance given to Mary in the Catholic tradition. Mary said yes when Angel Gabriel visited her. Elevating her role. My mum who religiously studies the Bible and prays incessantly tells me that because Mary said yes to God's plan, He will never refuse her. Hence, we ask for her intercession to her Son and God the Father.
@@fabiotuan5206 I didn't say she is God or imply that. Neither did I say she is omnipresent or divine. I am just pointing out why Catholics consider her important. Catholics do not believe her to be God or divine or omnipresent. They give her importance as she is the Mother of Christ, the Son of God. She is Blessed. And yes truly all worship, praise and glory is for God Almighty. Not sure why you would think I meant otherwise.
God bless!
And to her spouse, the Holy Spirit🔥
“Who am I that the Mother of my Lord should come to me ??” Sums up devotion to the Mother of God for me
@dannyplas 11 So you don’t believe Jesus is God? 💀
@@bruhidk3069 More that Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus who is God, but not the mother of God. In the sense that Mary is the literal mother of Jehova God because Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. So I believe what this brother in Christ is saying is not that Jesus isn't God, but that Mary herself is not higher than God in the sense that she is literally the mother of God, like how we know that the parents are in higher authority than the children, well if Mary is the mother of God, that would in a sense imply she is higher than God. So thats why the logical conclusion, atleast in my head, is that Mary is the mother of Jesus (who is God) but not of His Godliness, but of His humanity, as the Holy Spirit (who we both know is also God, part of the Trinity) came upon Mary, which would mean that the Holy Spirit is the reason why Mary even became pregnant, so that would mean that God the Father (Jehova) is well, the Father of Jesus.
So I don't believe he was saying that Jesus wasn't God, I believe its more a problem of interpretation.
sorry but logically speaking Mary is the mother of God, if you deny that it’s easy to fall into the heresy of nestorianism. No one believes Mary created Jesus or that she predates Jesus or that she is the mother of the father or the holy spirit, she is only the mother of Jesus, but she would therefore be the mother of God since Jesus is God, there isnt any way of getting around this
@@jhroomy ^
@@bruhidk3069 logically speaking she is the mother of Jesus. Nothing more needs be made of it.
This is a fantastic episode. God bless.
Thank you for always listening and being respectful. I love your conversations. As someone who is Catholic but grew up with a Protestant bent (as my parents allowed me to go to different churches when I was younger) I always love listening to Catholic/Protestant dialog when it is just that. Channels like yours and Bishop Barron's are instrumental in bringing intelligent and respectful conversation to the table when discussing the differences in our Christian theologies.
9:20 finally someone take a bite
I cut around all the bites I could because of the unbearably loud crunching.
Hahahhahahahahahha yes
The Ten Minute Bible Hour Behold, this 'Doubting Thomas'... Until I see... him touch... them wings... 🕊🤣
@@MattWhitmanTMBH So that's why it looks like you never eat your waffle fries, the best fries in town!
@@MattWhitmanTMBH
Hello Matt ! I am a convert to the Catholic faith. I would like to share with you what is the thing about Mary:
Catholics honour Mother Mary because
1. She is the Mother of Jesus, our Lord and deserves our respect.
2. Her role in our salvation is foretold in Genesis 3:15 when God told the Devil
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
She is the only human being whom God has chosen for His plan to save the fallen human race - Jesus has to be born as a Man to have a lasting binding New Covenant with God as all other Covenants were broken. To be born as a man, Jesus needs to be born of a woman. Mary is obedient to God and said yes. She didn't ask for God's plan. I would and how shall my life be impacted. Who will take care of me when I grow old. Mary trusted God but a sword pierced her heart Luke 2:35 when Jesus was crucified. She gave Jesus his human DNA. So whilst Jesus did the saving, Mary was instrumental in out salvation. If Mary didn't said yes, and some other woman did, then we will honour this other woman none the lesser.
3. As Jesus is the King of Kings, Mother Mary is the Queen Mother. Just as Bathsheba interceded for the king's subjects in 1 Kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat down at his right hand.
Mother Mary Mary intercedes for all of us. Reference the Wedding at CanaJohn 2 : 1 to 12 when Christ performed His first miracle, even though He initially said it wasnt His time yet. Mother Mary didn't tell Jesus what to do but directs the servants to Jesus, just as she directs us now to Jesus. The focus and glory is always in Jesus. Intercession proves that the final decision and call still lies with God and Mary is not a deity.
4. God killed Uzzah in 2 Sam 6:6 to 7 for touching the Ark of the Old Covenant :
When they came to the threshing floor of Nakon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.
Despite doing a good deed by stabilising a falling Ark, Uzzah was deemed unworthy and to have defile the Ark.
The Ark of the old Covenant carried the Word of God in stone. Mother Mary carried the Word of God in flesh. She is thus sinless as she had to carried the Living Word of God in her womb for 9 months. Uzzah was struck dead by a mere touch. What's more 9 months of pregnancy? Thus we honour Mother Mary for carrying the Living Word of God. The sacredness and holiness of the Old Ark was evident by Uzzah's slaying, what's more the New Ark which is carrying Jesus.
5. Jesus the King of Kings bestowed Queenship on His mother Rev 12 :1
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
This woman is Mary because she is in heaven where God is. The only human being God will allow Queenship in heaven is Jesus's mother - the Queen Mother of the King of Kings. This woman is not the Church as some Protestants claim because in subsequent verses.Rev 12 : 2 to 5 this woman gave birth to a son which will rule all nations and whom the devil wanted to harm but couldn't. The only human that can stand up to the devil is Jesus.
REV 12 : 2 to 5
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne
6. We honour Mother Mary because we are grateful to her for saying Yes to God, when she was still an unmarried woman but had to bear Jesus, thereby being instrumental in the human race's salvation.
7. We honour Mother Mary because she was obedient to God and is our model of ideal discipleship. She didn't ask for God's detail operation plan, what's going to happen to her when she is found pregnant in old conservative Jewish society, how to answer to Joseph when he found out she is pregnant before their marriage, how is Mary going to live on financially if Joseph divorce her, what role is her son going to undertake etc. Nothing. No details needed. No assurances needed. Just a simple yes to God. And God is pleased with faithful disciples just as He is pleased with Abraham for his faithfulness.
For these reasons, Mother Mary deserves our honour - just as how the Early Church honours her for 1500 years till the Reformation. The Orthodox Christians who broke away from the Catholic Church honours Mother Mary. Martin Luther, the Father of the Protestant Reformation loves Mother Mary, honours her and prays the rosary.
The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).
[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ. ..She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation. 1537).
One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace.. .Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ...Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).
Luther goes even further, and gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians, much the same as in Catholic piety:
It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother, Christ is his brother. God is his father. (Sermon. Christmas, 1522)
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees...If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).
Catholics honour Mother Mary but we also believed that Christ is still the only mediator with God. Christ and Christ alone.
I really love what your doing it really is great you’ve helped me learn a lot about not only my religon (oriental orthodox) but other religons to. Really appreciate your peaceful approach in asking the church leaders.
I'm new to the channel. As a protestant living in Latin America, I'm very thankful for the very honest (and intelligent) conversation.
I loved the connection made between Mary af the Cross and in the revelations. Amazing channel
Congratulations for your efforts to join points in common with all the churches .I am an italian catholic,and about Our Lady, La Madonna.i like what said Roy Schoemann ,a jew converted, about her:he said She is the daugther of the Father, the Mother of the Son and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. Sorry for my english, i see in you two fervants Cristians; ciao.
@Maurizio Sinisi
Maurizio,
You couldn't have said it any better.
Well said!
Man. This is excellent. Respectful, insightful conversation. Going through RCIA at the moment, but will always be grateful for the Protestant upbringing I had as a young man; Bible studies, men and women in my life that loved the Lord, Sunday afternoons discussing the morning's sermon with my parents.
So awesome that y’all can have a positive and educated conversation together without any bickering or negativity.
Another great interview, as recent Catholic convert from Protestantism I agree Mary is always one of the last things you come around to, I just settled on if my goal is to be Christ like how should I view Mary, as Catholics we all have no doubt how much ever love, honor, devotion and respect we give Mary it will never match that of Jesus...food for thought (since you guys are never eating those chicken baskets,lol)
I'm surprised it took them so long to eat their waffle fries - they're the best fries in that town! But, knowing Dr. Holes personally, I'm also not surprised one bit. (Also, Matt said in response to someone else that he cut out most of it because of the sound in the mics, so that also explains it.)
Why is it necessary to spend time loving, honoring, devoting, and respecting her though? Your thoughts should be on Jesus alone. Loving Mary will not advance God’s kingdom, loving Jesus will.
@@Becca_Lynn That work ld make sense if the focus was on Mary but as Catholics we understand Mary has one goal and one goal only to draw everyone closer to her son.
I'm impressed with your conversation, thank you.
16:20 I have never heard anyone, ever, anywhere, say that Mary showed up at the Temple and was “there to collect Jesus” and that she could be faulted because she did not “go in and hear his sermon”. My heart literally sank when I heard the supposed “bumbling” of the Blessed Mother. Thankfully, this Catholic gentleman has enormous patience and compassion for his friend.
For the Catholic to sort of nod in agreement to the protestants statement here, was in my opinion a missed opportunity to correct the newly found protestant idea that somehow Mary did something wrong and Jesus was dismissing her. I truly wish protestants would learn to read the Bible as the early Church has always read it, as one story and not an isolated chapter or verse here and there.
Yes I was a Protestant my entire life until this Easter. I never heard that Mary didn’t want to go in and hear His sermon. Interesting way of interpreting the scriptures. I disagree of course because I’m now Catholic.
They both were kind & respectful.
I LOVE your efforts to bring Christians together. Particularly impressed with your openness to honest and respectful dialogue other Christians. God bless you!
On Mary, and whether more or fewer people came to Christianity due to the protestant revolt, its interesting that within just a few years of Martin Luther(1517), as many (maybe more) new converts came into the Catholic Church as had left as a result of the Marian apparitions in Mexico (1531) ...who we refer to as Our Lady of Guadalupe and Saint Juan Diego.
NOOOOOO!!! You can't just leave it there! Just when it was getting awesome! Love the tone of the conversation, the mutual respect for each other's views. God bless you for your curiosity and hunger to learn Matt. Always look forwards to your videos.
Please upload these faster I can't get enough. Also thanks for putting them together. :)
Lutheran here (LCMS), I love these conversations. But I have to say that defense of Mary's importance is still hard to grasp. I think the Catholic position is genuine, heartfelt, and asking for Mary's intercession is not wrong in any theological sense. But I also do not think it is needed because we have Jesus.
Mary is not needed, ONLY JESUS
Catholics are heretics & it's not biblical, they worship a human being that is dead, ONLY JESUS SAVES
Here are some of Martin Luther’s writings on Mary 👇😳
Along with virtually all important Protestant Founders (e.g., Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer), Luther accepted the traditional belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary (Jesus had no blood brothers), and her status as the Theotokos (Mother of God):
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."[ Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works, English translation edited by J. Pelikan [Concordia: St. Louis], volume 24, 107]
It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).
God says…"Mary’s Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39).
God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother…She is the true mother of God and bearer of God…Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus, not two Christs…just as your son is not two sons…even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone. (On the Councils and the Church, 1539).
In this work whereby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such great good things were given her that no one can grasp them. ... Not only was Mary the mother of him who is born [in Bethlehem], but of him who, before the world, was eternally born of the Father, from a Mother in time and at the same time man and God. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 7, p. 572.)
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. ... Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v.11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.
{Luther's Works, eds. Jaroslav Pelikan (vols. 1-30) & Helmut T. Lehmann (vols. 31-55), St. Louis: Concordia Pub. House (vols. 1-30); Philadelphia: Fortress Press (vols. 31-55), 1955, v.22:23 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. {Pelikan, ibid., v.22:214-15 / Sermons on John, chaps. 1-4 (1539) }
A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ . . . {Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:199 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }
Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . .
When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.{Pelikan, ibid.,v.45:206,212-3 / That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew (1523) }
Luther . . . does not even consider the possibility that Mary might have had other children than Jesus. This is consistent with his lifelong acceptance of the idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary. {Pelikan, ibid.,v.22:214-5}
"...A virgin before the conception and birth, she REMAINED a virgin also AT the birth and AFTER it." (February 2, 1546 Feast of Presentation of Christ in the Temple)
". . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." Ref: Luther's Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40, ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968
"Men have crowded all her glory into a single phrase: The Mother of God. No one can say anything greater of her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees." (From the Commentary on the Magnificat.)
". . . in the resolutions of the 95 theses Luther rejects every blasphemy against the Virgin, and thinks that one should ask for pardon for any evil said or thought against her." (Ref: Wm. J. Cole, "Was Luther a Devotee of Mary?" in Marian Studies 1970, p. 116:)
"In Luther's Explanation of the Magnificat in 1521, he begins and ends with an invocation to Mary, which Wright feels compelled to call 'surprising'". (David F. Wright, Chosen by God: Mary in Evangelical Perspecive, London: Marshall Pickering, 1989, p. 178, Cited from Faith & Reason, Spring 1994, p. 6.)
Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning. Three hundred years before it was declared Dogma, the Protestant reformer Martin Luther said:
"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..." [Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works]
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).
"...above all it is necessary for us to see what original sin is in order to be able to understand how the holy Virgin Mary was released from it...as to the conception of the Virgin Mary whose body was procreated in the fashion of other children, until the soul was infused, it was not necessary that she should be conceived as was Christ; for she was able to be brought forth under the law of original sin, up to the time when her soul was bestowed. But, in that which concerns the other conception [the passive conception], that is to say the infusing of her soul, one believes with devotion and holiness that she was brought forth without original sin, in such a way that at the moment of her soul being infused she was also similarly purified from original sin, and at the first instant in which she began to live she was without sin, adorned with the gifts of God." (Sermon on the Day of the Conception of Mary, Mother of God, 1527; cited in Thurian, page 197)
" This immaculate and perpetual virginity forms, therefore, the just theme of our eulogy. Such was the work of the Holy Ghost, who at the Conception and birth of the Son so favoured the Virgin Mother as to impart to her fecundity while preserving inviolate her perpetual virginity."9
Although he did not make it an article of faith, Luther said of the doctrine of the Assumption. In his sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time Martin Luther preached on the Feast of the Assumption, he stated:
There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ. [Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works (Translation by William J. Cole) 10, p. 268]
Despite his unremitting criticism of the traditional doctrines of Marian mediation and intercession, to the end Luther continued to proclaim that Mary should be honored. He made it a point to preach on her feast days.
The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522) [Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works].
Boy, we do have the virtue of patience to await this segment being loaded up. 😃 The first humanist Enlightenment was driven by the Catholic church and some reform minded 'saints' such as Clement Hofbauer (Redemptorist, CSsR) are worth reading, and the second Enlightenment was the one which has bred modernism the fruit of which we experience today with secular atheism. On the point of 'colonialism' (of which I am a product of), the Dutch and English (both of whom had 'East India' companies or corporations) did not achieve as much as the Catholic missions combined across the globe, through the work of their religious orders often sponsored by rich patrons from the 'old World'. The French missions (MEP) were well supported by the Empress (details can be cited in official correspondence even in a British colony like Singapore, but it was the work of the French that built the schools and diocese, while the Portuguese Mission focused on a very much smaller role, given here as 'example'). On the other hand, the Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists and Lutherans did not achieve as much across Batavia, India, the Straits Settlements etc in their colonialism of the 18-19th Century. In the Americas, the work of the Franciscans and other orders are well documented. The French left a deep sense of Catholicism in Vietnam which endured through Communist suppression. The growth of modern Evangelical Christianity somewhat coincides with the charismatic movement and both have been fruitful, and I think that has been the most successful in terms of expanding Christian numbers. Interestingly, we have recently seen controversial conversions of top notch Evangelical pastors to the Catholic faith, in Sweden (Ulf & Birgitta Ekman), in the US... But Catholics generally don't disparage their Orthodox or Evangelical 'brethren' while the reverse tends to be true. As for Mary, an apparent stumbling block it seems, the first thing to its removal is simple: find out what the Catholic Church 'actually' teaches about her, because most of the time, a faithful and scriptural understanding of her is very Christological, and mostly she is disparaged from deep prejudice and misinformation. If you let go of that and investigate the magisterium about Mary, then it will be a fair exploration. The Church clarifies or defends Mary in recent times is how it responds to 'falsehoods' about belief related to her. In the same way, doctrine is proclaimed always in 'defence' rather than 'innovation'. That said: if God did not require her, the Gospels (and tradition) could have done without any need of her. Just imagine how we would understand the nature of Jesus as 'Son of Man' if the Gospels excised her completely, as if the Word became incarnate as if Jesus just popped into this 'reality': no 'over-shadowing by the Spirit', no new Ark of the Covenant seen by John appearing in heaven, the 'Woman clothed with the sun', and probably no first miracle at Cana via the intercession of a 'Woman' who proclaimed to the servants, 'Do whatever he tells you.' Not that she expected a miracle, but she utterly trusted in his judgement though his 'time had not yet come.' In short, she moved the needle in the dial that illustrates our Salvation in God's plan. Have to wait for the next segment. As for the 'cult' of Mary in all the ancient Churches being compared with the 'cult of Caesar', the comparison is in fact favourable to 'tradition', because rather than any of the apostles being the subject of such singular honour, that it was 'her/Woman' instead of any other disciple, makes it all the more likely this was very ancient to apostolic times. Peace of Christ be with us all. 🕊
capacitance-rca1981 Are you equating the activities with Royal Spanish soldiers with what the religious missions do? With the rest of what you wrote, you appear to be clinging on to a particular (biased?) point of view. One needs to be charitable on this channel, or take your trolling elsewhere.
@capacitance-rca1981 Respect Spain and the american conquest you can read about the origin and formulation of the human rights in this historical context, centuries before the French Enlightment. The fathers of the " ius gentium", the concept of "just war" and the intermational human rights are not atheist frenchmen rather spanish catholic theologians of the "School of Salamanca" during 16th century: Dominicans and jesuits like Francisco de Vitoria, Francisco Suarez, Gines de Sepúlveda, Gabriel Vázquez, Domingo de Soto or Luis de Molina (better known for the molinism). They were also the creators of the modern economics theory, centuries before Adam Smith (read the works of Azpilicueta, Vitoria, Molina, Luis de Alcalá, Diego de Covarrubias or Tomás de Mercado). Human Rights as a modern social principle is a creation, a patrimony and a legacy of Christianity (not from any other religion or philosophical tradition)
Yay! Part 3 is up! I almost resorted to asking Dr. Holmes last month when it would be posted, then I came on here tonight and here it was! I love listening to the two of you converse on these topics - it takes me right back to my freshman and sophomore theology classes with Dr. Holmes (best teacher for Salvation History I've ever had, and I've had several). His explanation of light and darkness on the first day of creation absolutely blew my mind. Out of curiosity, at which restaurant were these filmed? I recognize the waffle fries.
(After watching) Another cliff hanger? Nooooo... I hope the wait won't be too long, or I may have to get Dr. Holmes to summarize the rest of it for me. ;)
... i was nearly reporting this channel to uTube ... because the hadnt posted the 3rd episode. Total disgrace , and i hope we are not kept in suspense for so long until the next one 😂😂
@@pboyle3723 Well, I hope it's before spring, because otherwise I will have to ask Dr. Holmes to fill me in on the rest. The first of these was posted at the end of January, so I hope Matt doesn't make this one stretch out for an entire year.
Matt Whitman. Thank you for all of these videos. Truly enlightening. You certainly found a good man to explain issues and topics in such away that is not confrontational. Your videos should be required watching for all Christians and those who are interested. Keep up the good work.
FANTASTIC LINE OF QUESTIONING AND POINTS MADE. Thank you
Interesting video, I'm a protestant myself but it's nice to understand why our brothers in Christ think the way they do.
Love this channel, love the dialogue that’s happening and I appreciate the work that goes into making these conversations happen. As a Catholic I have to say that Ten Minute Bible Hour needs to find a Catholic apologist who will really be able to delve into the questions more thoroughly. I totally appreciate everything my Catholic brother is saying here but I really feel strongly that these topics can be discussed from a Catholic perspective more effectively.
Wow! Such great points for and great modelling of how to engage respectfully and openly. Thank you!
Bro, I'm loving the conversational videos. They're so interesting to listen to! When are we getting a part 4 of this? It's been too long!
Finally! I've been waiting an Eternity (no pun intended) for this installment. Thanks for posting. (After watching) Okay another installment. Please, Matt, let's not wait several months before posting again. G*d bless ya, bro'!
Just some quotes by Augustine:
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
I know that Dr. Holmes was doing his best to phrase his answer in a way that non-Catholics are more likely to understand; but just to clarify, the Marian dogmas did not originate during Medieval times. And the reason that these dogmas were only "officially declared" later on is that, in the Catholic Church, official statements are not made unless a topic has become disputed. It was only when otherwise faithful Christians began to question Christ's divinity that the Church officially declared that he was wholly divine and wholly man. Likewise, in the case of an ancient belief like the Assumption, the Catholic position was only declared dogmatically when Catholics began to reject the doctrine.
Matthew Tate You aren’t quoting any Scripture in your argument and as such it doesn’t hold water.
@@kylegroll8047 Kyle, Mr. Tate was making a point that certain dogmas existed before medieval times and quoted multiple sources that predated medieval times. How does that not hold water?
@@kylegroll8047 Tell me where Scripture says I can only argue from Scripture, and I will agree with you. You realize that the very same people in the early Church who recognized the New Testament as being the word of God also believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary, right? So if you cannot trust the judgment of the Church Fathers on this issue, then why do you trust them when it comes to the cannon of Scripture?
@@kylegroll8047why does the Bible have to be quoted? Do you believe in scripture alone? Do you know that the only reason your Bible has the 4 Gospels of the New Testament is because Catholics (by Divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit) said that they were Canon?! Learn some Biblical and Church history smh
@Kyle Groll God gave us brains, ears, eyes, etc. We are supposed to use them all to learn. Did you learn everything you know from books? I know I didn't. I learned from what I see, hear, feel, read, and also what I intuit because that is how people learn...anything!
Love your channel, Catholic here. Your interviews are top notch.
My second time viewing. Thanks for a thoughtful presentation. On to pt. 2.
As an ex-catholic studying God's commandments and the divine character of Jesus
And the character of Mary
Made me so sure that Mary had no role and relation cooperating with the divine presence of Jesus
Except as the one to give birth to the son. And that's it.
The Catholic Church puts their so called “Saints” in the place of Jesus. They make Mary a big deal. During Christmas they make it all about St. Nick. We need to just follow Jesus. All this focus on the saints is a distraction.
@@cardiolifestyle if there was no mary there would be no jesus with no saints there would be no word spreaded💯✝️🙏🏽
@@Califaz-vm4wg I agree, Mary is important and the Saints are important. But God is who we need to put first.
Mary , the mother of our redeemer , is not just a character but a perfect yes to God. Never undermine who God chooses as blessed as she is, for she is the mother of our redeemer snd I’m sure our Lord Jesus would want us to always hold her in high esteem with love and respect. Wouldn’t we want people respecting our own mothers?
Thank you both for sharing your fellowship and conversations with open hearts and minds. I was a protestant, bible studier and truth seeker in many denominations until I was 49 and I did not like what I thought the catholic church was at ALL, the last place you would ever find ME...I made the mistake of learning about it over a four year period to convert my best friend who is now my Godfather lol. I entered the church in 2014 and I appreciate my journey and greatly appreciate sincere believers where ever they are. Like others, learning about Mary was a struggle...the last and most beautiful teaching to realize, but there it was, just had to search for it like a treasure. I would love to share some of it but it's already out there. One comment that really hit me aside from the biblical theology was "If you were God, how would you make your mother?" God Bless you all in Christ Jesus.
This is such a beautiful story! Welcome home!
Brilliant, brilliant defense of Marian devotion!!!! WONDERFUL video overall!!! So immensely grateful this conversation is recorded for posterity. Thank you, Lord!!!!!
Loved this video so much, and it made me more curious about the Church. Thanks Matt!
Dr. Holmes said he has never known a person who joined the Catholic Church because of Mary. He said people join the Church and then slowly, over time, they come to understand Mother Mary. I guess I am a unicorn. I became Catholic because of Mary. I felt that any church who embraces the awesome role she played in the history of Christianity has got to be the one church who truly understands and reveres God.
I have known several who have become Catholic because of Blessed Mary, the Great Mother of God.
I think it is also important to remember the Catholic position on Mary being the new Ark of the Covenant. This is something my Protestant friends rarely even think about, but it is actually pretty self-evident from scripture. Simply put the Ark in the Old Testament was associated with the presence of God and held within it the word of God in the form of the 10 commandments and the bread of life in the form of manna from heaven. Mary held within her womb Jesus who is both the eternal word of God and also the true bread of life. Therefore Mary is the Ark of the Covenant in the New Testament. It is worth mentioning that in the Old Testament the Ark was heavily venerated by believers, decorated with gold and precious stones, it was a centerpiece in the Jewish house of worship, and a great symbol of Jewish piety believed by the people of God to be one of their most precious possessions. I think there is even reference to this in the part of Revelation that was mentioned but I'd have to check.
Yes it starts with Revelations 11:19 and continues into Revelations 12. It is thrilling to read! :)
I beg to differ. Anyone who has taken Scripture seriously, in order to understand what to believe - Scripture or Roman Tradition - has studied this issue. Anyone who is committed to Rome, or committed to Scripture, understands the typology employed. One must take specific verses of Scripture out of context, to portray Mary as Ark. Sola Scriptura, to Rome, is anathema, according to the Council of Trent. We simply beg to differ on the separate doctrines of Mariology.
@@KristiLEvans1 Mary is ark because she held the word of God in her womb. Are you saying you do not believe that Jesus is the word of God?
@@KristiLEvans1
Amen Kristi!
We all believe in the virgin birth etc
RCC has added co-redemptrix to their distorted theology as well now.
Mary is exalted to the level of worship in the RCC, frightening!
Thanks. Loved the discussion.
Love these conversations and their respectful and thoughtful engagement. Thank you from a cradle Catholic.