Your speculation is misleading. To be exact, there are 675k EOs and 491k OOs living in the US. That means EO+OO ~0.5% of American Population in 2020. According to USA religion census.
@@arthurhyatt8964 Right, but you shouldn't add millions of people in to your data without having official report from government or research institutions. Your sources should be independent and credible.
The "~" prior to "1%" indicates an approximation. If you reference multiple sources including the 2020 Religious Census by Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, the Pew Research Center and others, you find conflicting data. This is to be expected as census data like this is difficult to collect and changes over time. I'm prepared to provoide sources for my videos and claims, as usual.
Ethiopian Orthodox here... accurate insight. I see the fascination everywhere in the online space, I dread being defined by a Western perspective much less the Americanization of the faith. it's the last stronghold and refuge against the hazing of culture. I hope orthodoxy remains unpolluted.
The parishes will always flow with the tides of the modern culture. But what will always preserve Orthodoxy is the monasteries. As long a we have our thriving monasteries, then the faith will carry on unvarnished. Glory to God.
As someone who grew up Spanish Pentecostal, I have a strong admiration for the Coptic Orthodox branch of the Oriental Orthodox Church. I’ve visited a few times and I am always amazed by the rich history and liturgy.
Everyone is welcome to Oriental Orthodoxy. Try a Coptic church during fwast days or major holidays when the liturgy of St Gregory the Theologian is done, most beautiful!
I’m Mexican of mostly Spanish decent and some indigenous. Catholic Spain did a great job of integrating and creating new cultures within its empire. Most Hispanics are of mixed race ancestry. Just my 2 cents.
This is what I have been wanting for a while, too many Orthodox Churches are culturally Greek or what ever country they have originated from in America, which is fine but there are wayy to many, to the point where some Catholics are saying: hey this Church might not be for us. I think culturally American and traditionally Orthodox is the best way to go in America to relate to the people in your own country.
Been here since 300 subscribers, I am so happy to see you grow my brother in Christ, there was really a need for a good Oriental Orthodox channel on TH-cam. I hope you grow more and spread the good news ✝️☦️
Even in smaller towns like mine in Northern Colorado we are overflowing with new people. (85 in the inquirer class at the moment). Our Diocese of 15 States is English speaking and ethnically diverse. There was a time in American history where Greeks were considered ‘Black’. They were sometimes killed (massacred in Colorado). It has been hard for ethnic Orthodox to let go of what used to be and face the Church of today. My parish is Mexican, African American, Chinese, Japanese, Georgian, Baltic, Greek..and mixed European…all Orthodox. 175 people to 650 in 6 years. I’m telling you that things are happening that you aren’t aware of. I’ve been Orthodox 40 years and the Oriental and Orthodox have been working together (As we should be!)
Historically, Orthodoxy has always honored the culture they settled into when they brought the Christian Faith. They used the language of the people and didn’t destroy all the cultural practices of the people that weren’t flagrantly opposed to Christianity. Music is different from Country to Country at least in Eastern Orthodox between Byzantine, Greek, and newer American Orthodox Chant. All to the Glory of God.
God bless you Andrew!! please continue posting I learn so much from you and we need more people like you raising awareness about this topic in the coptic and other oriental orthodox churches. The gates of hades shall never prevail, Christ is Lord.
Personally I think almost all the people joining the church crave the tradition and history. I think Orthodoxy is the only thing that can actually resist Americanization/liberalization. I’m American and was baptized two years ago, I reject anything that would erode the church and it seems the church is always well aware of this and it remaining form in tradition.
I don't know if Americanized is the right word, but what I could say is that there is a potential threat of Orthodoxy eventually becoming a cultural club (i.e. ethnic clubs where native Orthodox judge converts, I've heard a lot of stories about this happening and putting enquirers off) or an overly political or worldy view on power, focusing on being "based" rather than being humble before God and following Christ.It depends on the motives of those converting, if they are truly seeking God, or if they just want something to fight against the woke with, in which case there is little difference with a political movement, and political trends end up swinging left to right and vice versa a lot.
A point of fact about American history: the Puritans of the Massachusettes Bay Colony were not trying to get away from Catholicism in England. The Civil War in England, led mainly by Cromwell, had already utterly overthrown the Catholic Church and imposed a radical Calvinst iconoclasm. Nor were the Puritans a disenfranchised minority, they were mostly prosperous merchants and tradesmen with much property. No, they left to get away from the Church of England, which under Queen Elizabeth I had imposed a religious settlement between Lutheran and Calvinist factions, forcing both to behave and stop quarreling. And for the Calvinist extremists, this was considered an unconscionable compromise with the world. So the Puritans were actually the most extreme sect or cult of Protestantism, within an anti-Catholic society. However, other settlers in colonies further south tended to be less extreme in their religious views, and were often Church of England (Episcopalian) in Virginia. They were also opposed to Catholics, but their religious interests were often coloured by Freemasonry and Enlightenment freethinking. So when Orthodox, for example the Greeks, come to America, their Thessalonian crypto-Judaism really runs wild, and they become Freemasons in order to succeed in business and get high class prostitutes. And you can bet that happens with Armenians too, since they're damn near as greedy as the Greeks. Eyes filled with envy and visions of Hollywood, they all can't wait to get up in the Whore of Bablylon, so they go down and sell Christ for thirty shekels down at the Lodge. And that is how they become "Americans".
Interesting, so the south was less religious and more interested in money. Does this contribute to the reason why they were morally bankrupt and tried to keep slaves as slaves after they couldn't use the indentured white people as slaves anymore?
Do you think that Americans actively joining traditionalist denominations like orthodoxy that are actively opposed to a lot of that can bolster those traditions against American/freemason culture? I feel as though the urge in the culture to even seek out tradition to begin with is rooted in outright rejection of a lot of what American culture has become, but is manifesting itself in a much healthier way than mainline Protestant sects, with their retreatism, schisming and splintering, only to fall harder into the tide of culture in the future.
@@braindead5834 I think it really depends on the spirit in which they seek Orthodoxy. If it is a deliberate shedding of self will and earnest desire to find Truth, then even an encounter with an ethno-phletist para-synagogue can lead to a revelation of God to them personally, for they "do as the Pharisees teach, and not as they do." And saving their own soul, they save those around them as well. On the other hand, if the convert is motivated by a pride of correctness, a worldy devotion to doctrinal purity and fallen argumentativeness there is little that their interactions will bring to those they join. This is called the spiritual suicide bomber.
As long as that church uses Arabic and Coptic then it is still a Coptic orthodox church, if it’s not using Coptic then… it’s not Coptic at all and shouldn’t be considered one 😅😅 (hence the name Coptic kinda needs to be their)
it's really scary to realize how American culture is wrong from the ground up you know. I am really interested in oriental Christianity. Baptized protestant and now have tested the Syriac church since I am from Aleppo originally (guess my original religion). But I am finding it hard to start with yet another church. Tested Greek church but did not like how intense they are against Copts especially when I share my Daoud Lamei videos. Probably not the smartest move XD.
If you go to Greek Orthodox, you don't feel the love for Orientals. But if you go to other Eastern Orthodox, they have great respect for Oriental Orthodox.
As an Eastern Orthodox Convert the most Americanized churches are the Antiochian convert and mixed ethnicity churches, with only a few being primarily Arab.
It's think it won't just Americanise, it will liberalise as well! (I hope I'm wrong) but once Americans get their hands on it then it will be watered down and re-packaged and we are seeing evidence of that now. I'm not Eastern Orthodox, but I have to say what I do like about the Coptic church is they look after their own, and it's packed with Egyptians where I live and the only reason these people have kept hold of their culture is because of the Coptic church. When most African, Arab cultures quickly lose their culture when they go abroad. Having a mainstream church is not always a good thing it can quickly be taken over and lets be honest Eastern Orthodox has gone mainstream.
I somewhat agree but id respectfully push back and ask is the Church's mission to preserve culture or is it to preach/deliver the gospel to the lost? Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Not just Egyptians. As long as the faith is upheld by tradition, the councils, the bishops, etc then the Church should be fine 🤷🏿♂️ It will just look a little different outside of Egypt and thats ok
@@JusticeDivineAllah I can't disagree with any of that. But I'm very weary of mainstream Americanization. I look at my own Protestant churches and my Mums Roman Catholic church and I'm fearful for Orthodox, I hope they are protected.
Why would it necessary be "watered down" if it becomes American but not if any other nation adopts Orthodox Christianity as had happened time and time before in history? What specifically is it about America? What is the issue with America as opposed to any other nation?
I am Eastern Orthodox (my church is Greek) , but I am terrified of what an "American Orthodox" church would be like. With more and more converts coming to orthodoxy (Eastern and Oriental), no matter how hard we try not to, we do bring an amount of Protestant influence to the Orthodox phronema and Orthodox way of service and life. I would hate to see the Protestant liberal influence affect our Orthodox faith.
Thank you for your interedting videos. I rarely encounter the chance to hear from Oriental Orthodox. As a member of the Orthodox Church in America, in an area where there are three OCA churches and a lot of "ethnic" Orthodox churches, I found this video to be of particular interest and could have a lot of comments, just my own opinions. First, as a non-Russian OCA member, to me, the OCA has a perfect balance between Russian-ness and American-ness. There are a lot of Russian members in all three of the OCA churches here, they all have Russian deacons and a lot of Russian is used in the services. I really like this because I wouldn't trust a simply "American" church not to slide into modernism. The Russian roots give it a sense of ancientness that a purely American church wouldn't have. So, far from being liberalized, the OCA bishops have taken the strongest stands on modern issues like gender issues. OCA also has roots in the Native cultures of Alaska, who made Orthodoxy their own. When Russia sold Alaska to the USA and the Russians had to leave, the Native people kept Orthodoxy alive. We have Native saints. Orthodoxy spread to the rest of North America from the Alaskan mission, so it had already become partially indigenized. And then in my church, the Lord's prayer is spoken in every language represented in our church, and in the parish hall are displayed flags of the dozen or so different countries. This honors the fact that this counry is made up of many different peoples. (By the way, OCA came from the Moscow patriarchate, not from ROCOR, so it is a sibling of ROCOR, not a daughter.)
Hi Andrew im a black Canadian of Caribbean heeritage and Im interested in Oriental Orthodox, in fact im in a season of wanting to become a member of the Ethiopian Church from pentecostalism. I got a question has there been any black americans in your church ?
In Copitic or Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido? ... In Christian community it doesn't matters any one is 'black' or 'white'... all are welcomed to be saved by Christ and be lovely brethren of each other.
@@ayelegoba amen to that, the ethiopians are so nice i went to a Ethiopian Orthodox Church two weeks ago and the people there were so loving in fact they offered me free ethiopian bread.
A clarification on the OCA; my understanding is that OCA predates ROCOR since it was a mission church to the Americas. ROCOR began as a response to communism. Both come out of the Russian church
I think that the Orthodox Church in America is not the same as other traditional Christian sects precisely because it’s been so resistant to the culture. Culture will inevitably seep into the perish, but culture is not just some satanic entity, it’s the identity of people’s and nations. Were Eastern Orthodox churches infiltrated by culture when they began services in new languages outside of the Greek or Hebrew of the original church? I would argue that language is a significant component of what constitutes language. And yet even that can be baptized and even used as a tool to glorify God. My point is that culture itself affecting the church is not necessarily bad, as long as it takes long enough for the church to slowly be able to process any changes, and able to affectively ascertain the good from the bad
I am a white, anglo-saxon, former Protestant, who has converted to the Coptic Church, and I love it! I go to an American Coptic Church, as it only makes since to hear the liturgy in your own language. I think the fear isn't that the Coptic Church becomes Americanized as it is a fear that it becomes Protestantized, which I pray it never does. However, I do believe that the American Coptic Church should hire some American songwritters and retune the music to the English language. The Liturgical music was set to ancient Egyptian songs sung for the Pharaohs, and although I'm sure it sounds great in Coptic or even in Arabic, it is absolutely horrible in English. For instance, there is one particular liturgy (I dont remember which one) where they sing the word "and" for literally an entire minute. It's like 🎶AaaaasAaaaaAaaand🎶 and so on. No song in the history of the English language would ever stretch a common word like "and" out for no more than one note, let alone a whole minute. They just need to restructure the music to fit English, that's all I'm saying. Please proceed to bash me with your comments 😁.
The novus ordo mass is not a tradtional mass, people need to look into the history of the liturgy in the church in both east and west. The original liturgies in the church were much much simpler. Over the course of hundreds and hundreds of years litugies became more ornate, repetative etc and in many cases became primarly a Eucharistic celebration between the priest and God where the laity passively played a role, this was NOT the way early liturgies were. The novus Ordo wanted to bring back some of the actual communal feel in the mass. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental orthodox in their native countries (not converts in the west) very often have zero idea what is going on in the mass. The Catholic church wanted to adress this.
Love your videos man! Just subbed! Question: Why do Copts, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. circumcise males while the Eastern Orthodox do not? If the practice is not necessary given Christ’s fulfillment of the law, why do Orientals still practice it? Is this not a form of Judiazing? What is the early Church’s conciliar position on the matter?
as an Ethiopian Orthodox here, Ethiopia is a Judaic Christian country, meaning we have a Judaic heritage before Christianity, Judaic culture has been deeply inter-twined with Ethiopia's culture for thousands of years, so some things are cultural, from what I know of, any Tewahedo brothers and sisters, correct me if I'm wrong please...
We have to be careful. For us Orthodox, the way we worship safeguards what it is that we believe. We worship the way we do because we believe the way that we do. To Americanize means to protestantize. Interestingly enough, it seems as though the converts are more acutely aware of this.
As someone from a mixed family (half Chinese, quarter English, quarter Scottish), with grandparents from different denominations (one Catholic, one Methodist, one Baptist, one atheist) I think it's fair to say that one of the weaknesses of interethnic and especially interreligious marriage is that it leads to decline in self identity. This is why I think woke leftist ideas like non binary identities are so prevalent especially among white people, because they have much weaker ethnic and religious identities than other groups due to more intermixing. Speaking of Mississauga, that's actually where I live haha, and you're right about it being a heavily Coptic area. I am very interested in visiting a Coptic church but I definitely do feel the sense of foreignness and being an outsider when I'm in Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox environments. I think it would be pretty interesting to see a interethnic Oriental Orthodox Church where people of Indian, Arab, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopian and western convert backgrounds all worship together.
What do you mean "white people" when speaking about Americans? Everyone in America of any ancestry are Americans. Western Europeans don't see Americans as fellow Europeans just because some have European ancestral heritage. They see America as being so culturally different from European cultures.
Yes, there were the Catholics from Ireland and Italy and all of Europe that came later. But don't forget about the western side of the United States from Mexico had immigrated and there was Catholics in what's now America long before any of the European Catholics came and established cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, San Antonio, Santa Fe, Las Cruces all named after saints
He said make disciples of all nations. Coptic rite is a disciple of St. Mark who was a disciple of Christ. New converts can just claim discipleship to a certain rite and would be validly practicing Christians. You can be a disciple of the Coptic rite and not have Coptic blood, disciple of Antiochan rite and not have Syrian blood etc.
I have a question. I feel very isolated as an american convert. Sometimes, I Ieave church crying and contemplating suicide because I can not make a personal connection with other people. I attended an Eastern Orthodox church yesterday and felt a real connection with the people. I am poor, Copts don't seem to be. Is all this really necessary as long as we believe, serve, and love Jesus Christ? I have been a convert for 2 years.
I am cuban and my wife is salvadorian, but we were both born here. We are recent converts to eastern orthodoxy and we did it in a greek church. And we have service in 3 languages greek, English and Spanish. In my church there are a bunch of Greek families but all of them speak English. I don't think I have met someone who only speaks greek. So I always wondered why even have it in greek if the majority of the people speak English and some Spanish speakers. And I feel that hanging on to this heritage just doesn't make sense. I agree with you on not allowing heretical teachings that protestant thinking might bring but the cultural aspect, in my opinion does hinder the growth of orthodoxy. Not because of racism or anything like that, but for many people seeing a sign that say greek orthodox church, we'll im not greek so I guess this is not for me. Orthodoxy would flourish if it were not for that and it should flourish.
It just makes me sad that orthodoxy is an online grift for new american converts. They are using orthodoxy as like a weapon to judge others and make themselves seem better.
Welcome to modern America, where being a broken individual is the role-model for our young. Most of the people you speak of are trying to unlearn the lies of their society, they feel spiteful, but many of them tend to calm down and shift to Christ later on… that or they become a neo-Nazi.
I understand your conclusions, but may God protect us from this sort of split in the Orthodox Church. The Church is of all Nations. We shouldn’t be split based on culture or language. Egypt will always be our motherland as it was the only Church prophesied about in the Old Testament.
I live in the UK and I am Coptic could see it getting Americanised over there. In the UK other cultures kind of remain themselves once here, in the US it seems they all submerge into the american culture
If I were in your shoes, I would go [back to] Egypt. Ironically, the heritage is much more likely to be preserved there, than in America. There likely was a momentary blip if you will, when the Muslim Brotherhood government ruled during a power vacuum left in the wake of the toppling of the previous Mubarak regime, but that has now passed and it's unlikely Egypt will become an islamic state ever again. At the very least, it's a fairly certain outlook in what are otherwise times of deep uncertainty.
It will not become Americanized until the various ethnic hierarchies back off and allow it to develop here. But USA jurisdiction is a cash cow for them so that’s not likely. Most people see the ethnic label and figure it’s not for them.
Your intuition that Orthodoxy might liberalize is perhaps true, but a lot of what you’ve said is factually not true. A lot of people like to blame Prots for being liberal- but Southern Baptists and the reformed crowd are basically the reason conservatives have hope in this country.
That’s very true. I think that those traditions have far less checks and balances to actually resist liberalization, and are largely retreatist in a lot of ways. I think that Americans converting to orthodoxy is probably a healthier alternative to Protestant and Baptist parishes continually schisming over liberalization, as if splitting the most resistant and hesitant part of the church away doesn’t immediately increase the average liberalization of the remaining slightly larger denomination
You missing the effect of modern life style on the church regardless of denomination. People are on the move because of work and other pressures. There is no time to create a community that revolves around a church. I think the modern economy has a lot to do with it.
Hey sorry I think you've made a large common mistake. The English who came to settle America did not do so to escape the (RC) Pope and most did not come for religious reasons. The early settlers were almost all Anglican, the Anglican American Church would later become the Episcopalian Church after the revolution. This anti-catholic mindset actually came from the same anti-catholic ideology from England, the Pope was rejected by England in favor of starting a new church not long before. The crown persecuted Catholics in England for many years. They also accused the Catholics being politically aligned with the Pope in Rome, which you can imagine was an issue in the 20th Century. This is also being thrown at Eastern Orthodox, specifically Russian Orthodox today, accusations of loyalty to Moscow over America, but this is rare because patriotism has died so much. Also the OCA did not break off of Rocor, it was the Russian Church in American until the communist revolution, during which Patriarch Tikhon of Moscow granted autonomy to regions under Moscow that were abroad. . Rocor came originally from Russians who fled the communist regime and were moving across Europe.
@@Panaghhiaa because sir, we should not focus on cultural shifts in the church as much as the dogmatic strength of the church. If the church becomes americanized, as long as when the faithful were taught well as catechumen, it does not matter. Anything about Christ or dogma or supporting the faithful would be a better investment of our mental capacity and time.
@@prilosec5771the irony of this is that is a protestant American understanding of religion not an Orthodox one, kind of the foot in the door for you to spread your insanity
@@someguy3104What is the Orthodox understanding of this cultural matter then? How should we proceed that will best grow Orthodox Christianity in America? I would think the prime Orthodox focus would be on having correct teaching not cultural issues. Tons of various different cultures have become Orthodox in the past, this issue isn't anything new to America. I'm an Orthodox Christian and nothing will ever change the fact that I'm culturally/ethnically American.
That doesn’t really seem to be the historical reality. While a Catholic view might see the orthodox as leaving the head of the church, the reality is that the Catholics were the ones who actually developed new doctrine, which modified the creed in a substantial way. You might as well claim that the Anglican Church separated from the Methodist church, since the Methodists were the ones who actually had developed doctrine that wasn’t fully accepted by the institution that already existed. Not to mention the fact that a denunciation of a church or organization doesn’t count as you schisming from them, if they are the ones with the doctrinal development in question
@@robertboucherjrthat depends on which side you are on in the Great Schism. Roman Catholics believe that the Orthodox are the first Protestants. After all, they excommunicated each other.
@@Warspite39 , the Church blesses individuals, individually, that are turning away from gay. The Church doesn't believe in gay marriage or gay couple blessings .
jesus is not the messiah jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies the bible says the messiah will gather the exiles in deuteronomy 30:3 isaiah 11:11-12 jeremiah 30:3, 32:37 ezekiel 11:17, 36:24 the bible says the messiah will rebuild the temple in isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20 ezekiel 37:26-27 malachi 3:4 zechariah 14:20-21 the bible says when the messiah comes there will be world peace and a complete end to war in micah 4:1-4 hoseah 2:20 isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18 the bible says the messiah will bring universal knowledge of god in zechariah: 3:98:23, 14:9, 16 isaiah 45:23, 66:23; jeremiah 31:33 ezekiel 38:23; psalm 86:9 zephaniah 3:9. jesus didn't do any of these things, so jesus can't be the messiah.
Oriental orthodoxy are all bascially either egyption or african people i dont see how its viable as the one true church is its as ethnic as the eastern orthodox churches which honestly isnt as etnic as the oriental churches.
Thet.while..all. Eastern Apostolic Orthodox.are.mostly. Georgian Greek Russian Belarussian Ruthenian. Serbian Bulgarian Romanian Mazedonian Słav Abkazian And Osetian.and. Montenegran Orthodox. Apostolics
Yea it will succeed once they submit to Rome. They almost did too but they took a document out of context and decided they were too good for Christ's Catholic church. Oh well
There are ~1% Eastern Orthodox in America and ~0.1% Oriental Orthodox in America
Your speculation is misleading. To be exact, there are 675k EOs and 491k OOs living in the US. That means EO+OO ~0.5% of American Population in 2020. According to USA religion census.
@@Biniam_Hailu That was almost 5 years ago brother.
@@arthurhyatt8964 Right, but you shouldn't add millions of people in to your data without having official report from government or research institutions. Your sources should be independent and credible.
The "~" prior to "1%" indicates an approximation.
If you reference multiple sources including the 2020 Religious Census by Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies, the Pew Research Center and others, you find conflicting data.
This is to be expected as census data like this is difficult to collect and changes over time.
I'm prepared to provoide sources for my videos and claims, as usual.
It’s 4mill for EOs now
Ethiopian Orthodox here... accurate insight. I see the fascination everywhere in the online space, I dread being defined by a Western perspective much less the Americanization of the faith. it's the last stronghold and refuge against the hazing of culture. I hope orthodoxy remains unpolluted.
It will be polluted unfortunately. May be Erhiopian or Eritrean may keep it unpolluted due to cultural strongholds.
Where can I speak to Ethiopian Orthodox?
@@zeektm1762
Mostly in the DMV area WA, Texas, LA...
@@zeektm1762Here I am
The parishes will always flow with the tides of the modern culture. But what will always preserve Orthodoxy is the monasteries. As long a we have our thriving monasteries, then the faith will carry on unvarnished. Glory to God.
As someone who grew up Spanish Pentecostal, I have a strong admiration for the Coptic Orthodox branch of the Oriental Orthodox Church. I’ve visited a few times and I am always amazed by the rich history and liturgy.
Im pentecostal to and visted a ethiopian church its beautiful.
Come to the Oriental Orthodoxy welcome 🙏🏻
Everyone is welcome to Oriental Orthodoxy. Try a Coptic church during fwast days or major holidays when the liturgy of St Gregory the Theologian is done, most beautiful!
@Masihiun-sahraallibya thanks but im aleeady invited to a Ethiopian orthodox church
I’m Mexican of mostly Spanish decent and some indigenous. Catholic Spain did a great job of integrating and creating new cultures within its empire. Most Hispanics are of mixed race ancestry. Just my 2 cents.
Are you Coptic Orthodox?
Coptic Orthodox from the LA Diocese. I love this channel! Thank you!
This is what I have been wanting for a while, too many Orthodox Churches are culturally Greek or what ever country they have originated from in America, which is fine but there are wayy to many, to the point where some Catholics are saying: hey this Church might not be for us. I think culturally American and traditionally Orthodox is the best way to go in America to relate to the people in your own country.
Been here since 300 subscribers, I am so happy to see you grow my brother in Christ, there was really a need for a good Oriental Orthodox channel on TH-cam.
I hope you grow more and spread the good news ✝️☦️
God bless you and your channel Andrew☦️❤️
Even in smaller towns like mine in Northern Colorado we are overflowing with new people. (85 in the inquirer class at the moment).
Our Diocese of 15 States is English speaking and ethnically diverse.
There was a time in American history where Greeks were considered ‘Black’. They were sometimes killed (massacred in Colorado).
It has been hard for ethnic Orthodox to let go of what used to be and face the Church of today.
My parish is Mexican, African American, Chinese, Japanese, Georgian, Baltic, Greek..and mixed European…all Orthodox. 175 people to 650 in 6 years. I’m telling you that things are happening that you aren’t aware of.
I’ve been Orthodox 40 years and the Oriental and Orthodox have been working together (As we should be!)
What kind of Orthodox, Eastern or Oriental "Orthodox"
It is terrifying to witness and I hope we all unite to preserve Orthodoxy form being Americanized.
Historically, Orthodoxy has always honored the culture they settled into when they brought the Christian Faith.
They used the language of the people and didn’t destroy all the cultural practices of the people that weren’t flagrantly opposed to Christianity.
Music is different from Country to Country at least in Eastern Orthodox between Byzantine, Greek, and newer American Orthodox Chant. All to the Glory of God.
I'm grateful I found an Orthodox parish that speaks english right in my backyard.
God bless you Andrew!! please continue posting I learn so much from you and we need more people like you raising awareness about this topic in the coptic and other oriental orthodox churches. The gates of hades shall never prevail, Christ is Lord.
Personally I think almost all the people joining the church crave the tradition and history. I think Orthodoxy is the only thing that can actually resist Americanization/liberalization. I’m American and was baptized two years ago, I reject anything that would erode the church and it seems the church is always well aware of this and it remaining form in tradition.
If Orthodox Christianity isn't even Western in any way, then to think it can be Americanized (whatever that means), like other imports is a mistake.
I don't know if Americanized is the right word, but what I could say is that there is a potential threat of Orthodoxy eventually becoming a cultural club (i.e. ethnic clubs where native Orthodox judge converts, I've heard a lot of stories about this happening and putting enquirers off) or an overly political or worldy view on power, focusing on being "based" rather than being humble before God and following Christ.It depends on the motives of those converting, if they are truly seeking God, or if they just want something to fight against the woke with, in which case there is little difference with a political movement, and political trends end up swinging left to right and vice versa a lot.
A point of fact about American history: the Puritans of the Massachusettes Bay Colony were not trying to get away from Catholicism in England. The Civil War in England, led mainly by Cromwell, had already utterly overthrown the Catholic Church and imposed a radical Calvinst iconoclasm. Nor were the Puritans a disenfranchised minority, they were mostly prosperous merchants and tradesmen with much property. No, they left to get away from the Church of England, which under Queen Elizabeth I had imposed a religious settlement between Lutheran and Calvinist factions, forcing both to behave and stop quarreling. And for the Calvinist extremists, this was considered an unconscionable compromise with the world. So the Puritans were actually the most extreme sect or cult of Protestantism, within an anti-Catholic society. However, other settlers in colonies further south tended to be less extreme in their religious views, and were often Church of England (Episcopalian) in Virginia. They were also opposed to Catholics, but their religious interests were often coloured by Freemasonry and Enlightenment freethinking. So when Orthodox, for example the Greeks, come to America, their Thessalonian crypto-Judaism really runs wild, and they become Freemasons in order to succeed in business and get high class prostitutes. And you can bet that happens with Armenians too, since they're damn near as greedy as the Greeks. Eyes filled with envy and visions of Hollywood, they all can't wait to get up in the Whore of Bablylon, so they go down and sell Christ for thirty shekels down at the Lodge. And that is how they become "Americans".
Interesting, so the south was less religious and more interested in money. Does this contribute to the reason why they were morally bankrupt and tried to keep slaves as slaves after they couldn't use the indentured white people as slaves anymore?
Do you think that Americans actively joining traditionalist denominations like orthodoxy that are actively opposed to a lot of that can bolster those traditions against American/freemason culture? I feel as though the urge in the culture to even seek out tradition to begin with is rooted in outright rejection of a lot of what American culture has become, but is manifesting itself in a much healthier way than mainline Protestant sects, with their retreatism, schisming and splintering, only to fall harder into the tide of culture in the future.
@@braindead5834 I think it really depends on the spirit in which they seek Orthodoxy. If it is a deliberate shedding of self will and earnest desire to find Truth, then even an encounter with an ethno-phletist para-synagogue can lead to a revelation of God to them personally, for they "do as the Pharisees teach, and not as they do." And saving their own soul, they save those around them as well. On the other hand, if the convert is motivated by a pride of correctness, a worldy devotion to doctrinal purity and fallen argumentativeness there is little that their interactions will bring to those they join. This is called the spiritual suicide bomber.
Anglicans will consider themselves Catholic
Im a “white” american Coptic Orthodox Convert. Here in Los Angeles theres an “american coptic orthodox church” but i dont attend there
Why not eastern
@@TunicThule what
Nothing wrong with American Coptic Orthodox Church as long as its in communion with the Coptic Orthodox Church
American Coptic Orthodox Church is Coptic in every way except they use English(aswell as Arabic and Coptic). That doesn't deviate from Orthodoxy.
As long as that church uses Arabic and Coptic then it is still a Coptic orthodox church, if it’s not using Coptic then… it’s not Coptic at all and shouldn’t be considered one 😅😅 (hence the name Coptic kinda needs to be their)
I know the longer anything Holy marinates in America the more dilute it becomes.
it's really scary to realize how American culture is wrong from the ground up you know.
I am really interested in oriental Christianity. Baptized protestant and now have tested the Syriac church since I am from Aleppo originally (guess my original religion). But I am finding it hard to start with yet another church. Tested Greek church but did not like how intense they are against Copts especially when I share my Daoud Lamei videos. Probably not the smartest move XD.
You’re welcome in the Syriac church bro! We need more young people to help build the church
@@jdv3. thank you brother
If you go to Greek Orthodox, you don't feel the love for Orientals. But if you go to other Eastern Orthodox, they have great respect for Oriental Orthodox.
Modern* American Culture
As an Eastern Orthodox Convert the most Americanized churches are the Antiochian convert and mixed ethnicity churches, with only a few being primarily Arab.
It's think it won't just Americanise, it will liberalise as well! (I hope I'm wrong) but once Americans get their hands on it then it will be watered down and re-packaged and we are seeing evidence of that now. I'm not Eastern Orthodox, but I have to say what I do like about the Coptic church is they look after their own, and it's packed with Egyptians where I live and the only reason these people have kept hold of their culture is because of the Coptic church. When most African, Arab cultures quickly lose their culture when they go abroad. Having a mainstream church is not always a good thing it can quickly be taken over and lets be honest Eastern Orthodox has gone mainstream.
I somewhat agree but id respectfully push back and ask is the Church's mission to preserve culture or is it to preach/deliver the gospel to the lost? Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Not just Egyptians. As long as the faith is upheld by tradition, the councils, the bishops, etc then the Church should be fine 🤷🏿♂️ It will just look a little different outside of Egypt and thats ok
@@JusticeDivineAllah I can't disagree with any of that. But I'm very weary of mainstream Americanization. I look at my own Protestant churches and my Mums Roman Catholic church and I'm fearful for Orthodox, I hope they are protected.
@@albionblue123 Agreed
Why would it necessary be "watered down" if it becomes American but not if any other nation adopts Orthodox Christianity as had happened time and time before in history? What specifically is it about America? What is the issue with America as opposed to any other nation?
Cab you give examples of the evidence that orthodoxy is getting watered down and re-packaged in the US?
I am Eastern Orthodox (my church is Greek) , but I am terrified of what an "American Orthodox" church would be like. With more and more converts coming to orthodoxy (Eastern and Oriental), no matter how hard we try not to, we do bring an amount of Protestant influence to the Orthodox phronema and Orthodox way of service and life. I would hate to see the Protestant liberal influence affect our Orthodox faith.
Thank you for your interedting videos. I rarely encounter the chance to hear from Oriental Orthodox. As a member of the Orthodox Church in America, in an area where there are three OCA churches and a lot of "ethnic" Orthodox churches, I found this video to be of particular interest and could have a lot of comments, just my own opinions.
First, as a non-Russian OCA member, to me, the OCA has a perfect balance between Russian-ness and American-ness. There are a lot of Russian members in all three of the OCA churches here, they all have Russian deacons and a lot of Russian is used in the services. I really like this because I wouldn't trust a simply "American" church not to slide into modernism. The Russian roots give it a sense of ancientness that a purely American church wouldn't have.
So, far from being liberalized, the OCA bishops have taken the strongest stands on modern issues like gender issues.
OCA also has roots in the Native cultures of Alaska, who made Orthodoxy their own. When Russia sold Alaska to the USA and the Russians had to leave, the Native people kept Orthodoxy alive. We have Native saints. Orthodoxy spread to the rest of North America from the Alaskan mission, so it had already become partially indigenized. And then in my church, the Lord's prayer is spoken in every language represented in our church, and in the parish hall are displayed flags of the dozen or so different countries. This honors the fact that this counry is made up of many different peoples.
(By the way, OCA came from the Moscow patriarchate, not from ROCOR, so it is a sibling of ROCOR, not a daughter.)
Hi Andrew im a black Canadian of Caribbean heeritage and Im interested in Oriental Orthodox, in fact im in a season of wanting to become a member of the Ethiopian Church from pentecostalism. I got a question has there been any black americans in your church ?
In Copitic or Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido?
...
In Christian community it doesn't matters any one is 'black' or 'white'... all are welcomed to be saved by Christ and be lovely brethren of each other.
@@ayelegoba amen to that, the ethiopians are so nice i went to a Ethiopian Orthodox Church two weeks ago and the people there were so loving in fact they offered me free ethiopian bread.
@@rjmckenzie4706.Are there Ethiopian Orthodox churches in Canada? I didn't know
@@RicardoRazoo there is i live near toronto and there is one
@@rjmckenzie4706 . that's good , You can attend there is the same Liturgy of the Alexandrian rite
A clarification on the OCA; my understanding is that OCA predates ROCOR since it was a mission church to the Americas. ROCOR began as a response to communism. Both come out of the Russian church
I think that the Orthodox Church in America is not the same as other traditional Christian sects precisely because it’s been so resistant to the culture. Culture will inevitably seep into the perish, but culture is not just some satanic entity, it’s the identity of people’s and nations. Were Eastern Orthodox churches infiltrated by culture when they began services in new languages outside of the Greek or Hebrew of the original church? I would argue that language is a significant component of what constitutes language. And yet even that can be baptized and even used as a tool to glorify God. My point is that culture itself affecting the church is not necessarily bad, as long as it takes long enough for the church to slowly be able to process any changes, and able to affectively ascertain the good from the bad
Nahnou mouminiin, Salibihu Salibihi. Thank you for your thoughts
I am a white, anglo-saxon, former Protestant, who has converted to the Coptic Church, and I love it! I go to an American Coptic Church, as it only makes since to hear the liturgy in your own language. I think the fear isn't that the Coptic Church becomes Americanized as it is a fear that it becomes Protestantized, which I pray it never does. However, I do believe that the American Coptic Church should hire some American songwritters and retune the music to the English language. The Liturgical music was set to ancient Egyptian songs sung for the Pharaohs, and although I'm sure it sounds great in Coptic or even in Arabic, it is absolutely horrible in English. For instance, there is one particular liturgy (I dont remember which one) where they sing the word "and" for literally an entire minute. It's like 🎶AaaaasAaaaaAaaand🎶 and so on. No song in the history of the English language would ever stretch a common word like "and" out for no more than one note, let alone a whole minute. They just need to restructure the music to fit English, that's all I'm saying. Please proceed to bash me with your comments 😁.
The novus ordo mass is not a tradtional mass, people need to look into the history of the liturgy in the church in both east and west. The original liturgies in the church were much much simpler. Over the course of hundreds and hundreds of years litugies became more ornate, repetative etc and in many cases became primarly a Eucharistic celebration between the priest and God where the laity passively played a role, this was NOT the way early liturgies were. The novus Ordo wanted to bring back some of the actual communal feel in the mass. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental orthodox in their native countries (not converts in the west) very often have zero idea what is going on in the mass. The Catholic church wanted to adress this.
Love your videos man! Just subbed!
Question: Why do Copts, Ethiopian Orthodox, etc. circumcise males while the Eastern Orthodox do not? If the practice is not necessary given Christ’s fulfillment of the law, why do Orientals still practice it? Is this not a form of Judiazing? What is the early Church’s conciliar position on the matter?
There are some things that are more cultural than spiritual.
Many other Christians practice circumcision because it's cultural. It's just mainly in non-Western cultures.
as an Ethiopian Orthodox here, Ethiopia is a Judaic Christian country, meaning we have a Judaic heritage before Christianity, Judaic culture has been deeply inter-twined with Ethiopia's culture for thousands of years, so some things are cultural, from what I know of, any Tewahedo brothers and sisters, correct me if I'm wrong please...
We have to be careful. For us Orthodox, the way we worship safeguards what it is that we believe. We worship the way we do because we believe the way that we do. To Americanize means to protestantize. Interestingly enough, it seems as though the converts are more acutely aware of this.
Heresy will always exist. Each of us must remain watchful. Your church is either One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic or not.
As someone from a mixed family (half Chinese, quarter English, quarter Scottish), with grandparents from different denominations (one Catholic, one Methodist, one Baptist, one atheist) I think it's fair to say that one of the weaknesses of interethnic and especially interreligious marriage is that it leads to decline in self identity. This is why I think woke leftist ideas like non binary identities are so prevalent especially among white people, because they have much weaker ethnic and religious identities than other groups due to more intermixing.
Speaking of Mississauga, that's actually where I live haha, and you're right about it being a heavily Coptic area. I am very interested in visiting a Coptic church but I definitely do feel the sense of foreignness and being an outsider when I'm in Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox environments. I think it would be pretty interesting to see a interethnic Oriental Orthodox Church where people of Indian, Arab, Coptic, Armenian, Ethiopian and western convert backgrounds all worship together.
What do you mean "white people" when speaking about Americans? Everyone in America of any ancestry are Americans. Western Europeans don't see Americans as fellow Europeans just because some have European ancestral heritage. They see America as being so culturally different from European cultures.
Yes, there were the Catholics from Ireland and Italy and all of Europe that came later. But don't forget about the western side of the United States from Mexico had immigrated and there was Catholics in what's now America long before any of the European Catholics came and established cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, San Antonio, Santa Fe, Las Cruces all named after saints
San Agustín/ St. Augustine in my state as well.
babe wake up new andrew out!
He said make disciples of all nations. Coptic rite is a disciple of St. Mark who was a disciple of Christ. New converts can just claim discipleship to a certain rite and would be validly practicing Christians. You can be a disciple of the Coptic rite and not have Coptic blood, disciple of Antiochan rite and not have Syrian blood etc.
Christ is Risen!!
Intelligent and insightful.
I have a question. I feel very isolated as an american convert. Sometimes, I Ieave church crying and contemplating suicide because I can not make a personal connection with other people. I attended an Eastern Orthodox church yesterday and felt a real connection with the people. I am poor, Copts don't seem to be. Is all this really necessary as long as we believe, serve, and love Jesus Christ? I have been a convert for 2 years.
Go where you are closest to Christ.
I am cuban and my wife is salvadorian, but we were both born here. We are recent converts to eastern orthodoxy and we did it in a greek church. And we have service in 3 languages greek, English and Spanish. In my church there are a bunch of Greek families but all of them speak English. I don't think I have met someone who only speaks greek. So I always wondered why even have it in greek if the majority of the people speak English and some Spanish speakers. And I feel that hanging on to this heritage just doesn't make sense. I agree with you on not allowing heretical teachings that protestant thinking might bring but the cultural aspect, in my opinion does hinder the growth of orthodoxy. Not because of racism or anything like that, but for many people seeing a sign that say greek orthodox church, we'll im not greek so I guess this is not for me. Orthodoxy would flourish if it were not for that and it should flourish.
It just makes me sad that orthodoxy is an online grift for new american converts. They are using orthodoxy as like a weapon to judge others and make themselves seem better.
So start a channel and share real orthodoxy and Christianity.
@@DowDuer it's not my calling. I don't want fame, views or notoriety. Best way to learn is to just visit a church or talk to a priest
Welcome to modern America, where being a broken individual is the role-model for our young. Most of the people you speak of are trying to unlearn the lies of their society, they feel spiteful, but many of them tend to calm down and shift to Christ later on… that or they become a neo-Nazi.
The Ethiopia 🇪🇹 orthodox is in real trouble cause of ABIY Ahmed and some politicians who want to destroy the church
I understand your conclusions, but may God protect us from this sort of split in the Orthodox Church. The Church is of all Nations. We shouldn’t be split based on culture or language. Egypt will always be our motherland as it was the only Church prophesied about in the Old Testament.
I live in the UK and I am Coptic could see it getting Americanised over there. In the UK other cultures kind of remain themselves once here, in the US it seems they all submerge into the american culture
idk i didnt really watch but it seems like a secular theoretical argument against the spiritual reality of the church.
If the OO Church would be diligent, they would surpass the EO!
I can't really blame them for not wanting papist coming over here.
If I were in your shoes, I would go [back to] Egypt. Ironically, the heritage is much more likely to be preserved there, than in America. There likely was a momentary blip if you will, when the Muslim Brotherhood government ruled during a power vacuum left in the wake of the toppling of the previous Mubarak regime, but that has now passed and it's unlikely Egypt will become an islamic state ever again. At the very least, it's a fairly certain outlook in what are otherwise times of deep uncertainty.
You mean 1840 not 1940
It will not become Americanized until the various ethnic hierarchies back off and allow it to develop here.
But USA jurisdiction is a cash cow for them so that’s not likely.
Most people see the ethnic label and figure it’s not for them.
Your intuition that Orthodoxy might liberalize is perhaps true, but a lot of what you’ve said is factually not true. A lot of people like to blame Prots for being liberal- but Southern Baptists and the reformed crowd are basically the reason conservatives have hope in this country.
That’s very true. I think that those traditions have far less checks and balances to actually resist liberalization, and are largely retreatist in a lot of ways. I think that Americans converting to orthodoxy is probably a healthier alternative to Protestant and Baptist parishes continually schisming over liberalization, as if splitting the most resistant and hesitant part of the church away doesn’t immediately increase the average liberalization of the remaining slightly larger denomination
First settlers were Spaniards, not English
You missing the effect of modern life style on the church regardless of denomination. People are on the move because of work and other pressures. There is no time to create a community that revolves around a church. I think the modern economy has a lot to do with it.
Hey sorry I think you've made a large common mistake. The English who came to settle America did not do so to escape the (RC) Pope and most did not come for religious reasons. The early settlers were almost all Anglican, the Anglican American Church would later become the Episcopalian Church after the revolution. This anti-catholic mindset actually came from the same anti-catholic ideology from England, the Pope was rejected by England in favor of starting a new church not long before. The crown persecuted Catholics in England for many years. They also accused the Catholics being politically aligned with the Pope in Rome, which you can imagine was an issue in the 20th Century. This is also being thrown at Eastern Orthodox, specifically Russian Orthodox today, accusations of loyalty to Moscow over America, but this is rare because patriotism has died so much. Also the OCA did not break off of Rocor, it was the Russian Church in American until the communist revolution, during which Patriarch Tikhon of Moscow granted autonomy to regions under Moscow that were abroad. . Rocor came originally from Russians who fled the communist regime and were moving across Europe.
здравствуйте! Ваши корни с севера Африки?
Привет! Я родился и вырос на западе, а по происхождению я копт, коренной житель Египта.
@@andrewbehery Ваше лицо - оно удивительно) Поэтому захотелось узнать Ваше происхождение) Спасибо за ответ!
Russian Orthodox Church is all thats left, WCC (CIA controlled) has co-opted (no pun intended) every other jurisdictions priesthood
Hopefully I can start my conversation journey next year.
Andrew. I think you’re focusing on the wrong things here.
How?
@@Panaghhiaa because sir, we should not focus on cultural shifts in the church as much as the dogmatic strength of the church. If the church becomes americanized, as long as when the faithful were taught well as catechumen, it does not matter. Anything about Christ or dogma or supporting the faithful would be a better investment of our mental capacity and time.
@@prilosec5771the irony of this is that is a protestant American understanding of religion not an Orthodox one, kind of the foot in the door for you to spread your insanity
@@someguy3104What is the Orthodox understanding of this cultural matter then? How should we proceed that will best grow Orthodox Christianity in America? I would think the prime Orthodox focus would be on having correct teaching not cultural issues. Tons of various different cultures have become Orthodox in the past, this issue isn't anything new to America. I'm an Orthodox Christian and nothing will ever change the fact that I'm culturally/ethnically American.
This isn't a bad thing, American culture isn't bad protestantism is
American culture has a lot of bad things
The orthodox church’s are Protestant they also broke away from the Catholic Church
That doesn’t really seem to be the historical reality. While a Catholic view might see the orthodox as leaving the head of the church, the reality is that the Catholics were the ones who actually developed new doctrine, which modified the creed in a substantial way. You might as well claim that the Anglican Church separated from the Methodist church, since the Methodists were the ones who actually had developed doctrine that wasn’t fully accepted by the institution that already existed. Not to mention the fact that a denunciation of a church or organization doesn’t count as you schisming from them, if they are the ones with the doctrinal development in question
😂😂😂 you are telling as that you dont know history
Orthodox is a fancy name for protestant, especially in amedica.
The first Protestant was the Roman Catholic Pope tho
@@robertboucherjrthat depends on which side you are on in the Great Schism. Roman Catholics believe that the Orthodox are the first Protestants. After all, they excommunicated each other.
@@robertboucherjr , orthodox used to support the Papacy and have Saints 🥱
@@E-pistol do you support the gae blessings of francis?
@@Warspite39 , the Church blesses individuals, individually, that are turning away from gay. The Church doesn't believe in gay marriage or gay couple blessings .
jesus is not the messiah jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies the bible says the messiah will gather the exiles in deuteronomy 30:3 isaiah 11:11-12 jeremiah 30:3, 32:37 ezekiel 11:17, 36:24 the bible says the messiah will rebuild the temple in isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20 ezekiel 37:26-27 malachi 3:4 zechariah 14:20-21 the bible says when the messiah comes there will be world peace and a complete end to war in micah 4:1-4 hoseah 2:20 isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18 the bible says the messiah will bring universal knowledge of god in zechariah: 3:9 8:23, 14:9, 16 isaiah 45:23, 66:23; jeremiah 31:33 ezekiel 38:23; psalm 86:9 zephaniah 3:9. jesus didn't do any of these things, so jesus can't be the messiah.
Every single last one of these have been debunked
@@TunicThule How have they been debunked?
Too late to the party😂😂😂 this were debunked years ago
@@DoomkingBalerdroch How were they debunked?
bro is 2000 years late😂
Oriental orthodoxy are all bascially either egyption or african people i dont see how its viable as the one true church is its as ethnic as the eastern orthodox churches which honestly isnt as etnic as the oriental churches.
and.
Etitreans
Somalians.
Nubians.from
Egyptian
Sudan
Borderlands
Libyans.
Arabs
Nabateans.
Bedouinians
Jordanians.
Palestinians.
Some
Druze.
Some
Samaritans
Syrians.
Lebaneese.
Armenians
Indians.and.some.
Kurds
Thet.while..all.
Eastern
Apostolic
Orthodox.are.mostly.
Georgian
Greek
Russian
Belarussian
Ruthenian.
Serbian
Bulgarian
Romanian
Mazedonian
Słav
Abkazian
And
Osetian.and.
Montenegran
Orthodox.
Apostolics
Yea it will succeed once they submit to Rome. They almost did too but they took a document out of context and decided they were too good for Christ's Catholic church. Oh well
Right submission to Rome, that’s what’s required. With Vatican II, why even be Christian at all?
@@braindead5834 For the fullness of the faith my friend