To be fair, I believe it talks about the water becoming dangerous and fill of monsters, so it wasn't smart for them to continue to live there as far as natural selection went
@@herohearts1919 still would not explain them going from fish people to bird people like that in a snap though, even with evolution it still would of taken easily centuries or more to evolve to even be slightly bird like, and it is not like they are a weak people or anything, they could also probably find underwater caves that did not just instantly fill with water and instead were hallow, there is plenty around in the land of hyrule that could be like that, and even if they just packed up to a island, they could still swim around, dip their feet every now and then.
Their quick evolution to birds could've been supplied with magic. I've seen a theory, and personally like it, that the Zora changed into Rito so they wouldn't be able to dive deep and see what happened to old Hyrule. Maybe the past events were supposed to fall into obscurity but it could've also worked as a safety measure: no one goes to the Hyrule castle, no one would cause Ganon to escape. (Although that didn't work) And it would also help with hiding the Triforce of Courage (as well as the temples), as it seems it was hidden only in chests at the bottom of the ocean. Without all that water it would've been pretty easy to find:) so I see it as a work of the goddesses to change their appearance so drastically, similar to the change from Kokiri to Koroks, they could've happened at the same time. :)
I always thought that the goddesses decided to change them because they would easily be able to dominate all other races and the goddesses wanted to keep balance
Plot Twist: Revali is such a cocky chicken because he thinks he's a direct descendant of the red loftwing. Little does he know he's a direct descendant of Groose's.
No the gerudo are descendants of groose the rito are zora that went to where they are evolved into the rito not groose groose was a human in other words they are Zora descendants they were evolved from the Zora in wind waker too Ravalli is a rito not a gerudo not a human he is like every other rito evolved from a Zora again the gerudo are descendants of groose the rito are descendants from the zora
Actually they didn't devolve in the Downfall timeline. During the events of Oracle of Ages Link will encounter two species of Zora. Oceanic Zora and River Zora. The ocean Zora even have a Lord Jabbu Jabbu. The ocean Zora also hate the river Zora with one going as far as to tell Link that he better not dare to confuse an ocean Zora for a river one.
@@eltrainmaroon1352 it is more accurate to say that not ALL Zorah devolved into River Zorah... it is a fact that the River Zorah found in Hyrule (and through extension the ones found on other continents) are descended from the Zorah Tribe we meet and help in Ocarina of Time. Between the events of Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past the Zorah were forced to either devolve into the monsters known as the River Zorah found in the Downfall Timeline or flee from Ganon to another continent (Labrynna).
Honestly nintendo probably got lazy and bored with the separate timelines and decided to just throw all source material into one game just to give us a piss poor reason why, just so they are able to make a linear story. Dont look too hard into it. The Rito originated from wind waker and they said they came from zoras. They didnt say they came from loftwings. Just because looks are similar doesnt mean the rito wouldnt have looked the way they did in wind waker if they used less cartoony designs.
Rito being evolved from zora and there still being zora at the same time is actually not a contradiction. You would get that if the zora split into two isolated populations and one population evolved into rito and the other population remained zora.
And maybe that split might be based on preference of habitat between land and water, since Zoras are amphibious. Honestly I never understood why an acquatic race needed to evolve after the land was flooded. Unless the Zora specifically need freshwater?
@@MrElvenbrother If I remember correctly it was the goddesses directly intervening with their evolution so they wouldn't discover the sunken Hyrule. I could be wrong on that, been a while since I refreshed myself on Windwaker lore
You know what i think? I think the Timeline Between SkywardSword and Breath of the Wild is just a Straight line and that's it But then how did those Lil Creepy Chicken Came to be?
@@randomguyontheinternet871 he didnt say that we evolved from modern apes. We are, however, descendants of and are part of the classification of great apes
Better sit down, here comes a hot take: Maybe, just maybe, Nintendo doesn't give a damn about continuity as much as fans think, and with BotW specifically, they didn't want to bother adhering to the timeline anymore, so they just took whatever races and other assets they liked from every timeline.
And thank God for this. The timeline needs to go away, and I'm glad they created a Hyrule wear things all sort of congeal. I love previous Zelda games, but they were never meant to perfectly fit into a timeline, let alone one that has to split. Everyone pretends like Zelda has been this story driven franchise for some reason.
@@aithjawcraig9876 No, Demise's curse was never something adhered to. Its a story that a brilliant man, Hidemaro Fujibayashi, retroactively made up by looking at all the piece of lore that already existed before Skyward Sword and trying to find ways to put it all together as a cohesive story.
@@nocturne000 Zelda has always been a story driven franchise, what are you talking about? It's just that, in the beginning, it was more akin to Final Fantasy where each game was it's own self contained story, with only a couple being direct continuations of each other (like the most famous example of Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask, though there are a few more examples)
@@scottishwarrior3547 Nope, the species was also an ape. That's like the basis of cladistics. We are apes, our cousin species are apes, therefore the common ancestor was also an ape. Simply put, you don't have a population of something that is not an ape diverge into several different species of ape.
@@kharlanhero4428 Our most common ancestor with other apes was an ape. That's an undisputed fact. There was an ancestor to that ape that wasn't an ape, yes. But our common ancestor with other apes was an ape.
@@kharlanhero4428 Example: The common ancestor between Lions Tigers and house cats was another species of cat. They all belong in the clade of cats. However the common ancestor between cats and bears is obviously not a cat, and it is not a bear. It's in an entirely different clade that encompasses many other sub clades. Our ancestor with apes was an ape, we are apes. Anything that could possibly diverge from our species will also be mammals, will also be apes, and will also be humans, but the species will be different than us. That is cladistics. You never escape the parent clades. Clades are descriptors in anthropology. The further down the chain you go, the more descriptors you have. You never get a creature that does not share the classification of a parent clade. tl;dr "we come from an ancestor that wasnt ape" If you go high enough up the ancestry chain that is correct "and wasnt what came before it" False. It was what came before it. It just had more features that further described it
Or they were here before the humans Hylia send in the skies, going there by their own merit. Groose is red haired ... so maybe he is one without knowing it ....
Alternate theory: the people that stayed back in Skyloft became later on the wind tribe. Over the years, the wind tribe starts to become more bird like, eventually evolving into the Rito. Afterall, the windwaker rito need a dragon scale to actually grow wings. We never see any Rito in the other timelines because the wind tribe just stayed in skyloft or the sky temple. Maybe in windwaker the zora just went missing due to the abundance of water, and the rito became more their spiritual successors as sages, instead evolving from fish to bird.
fluwe logging I’ve always thought that the Zora were still around in WW. Because why would they not be? They’re an aquatic tribe. It makes so much more sense to me that Rito come from the Loftwings. Thank you for putting my thoughts into words lol
@@HyruleGamer I have a different theory about the Rito. gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189707-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/74882819 and www.universozelda.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/MuralOrni.jpg . and look at the breastplate on Ganondorfs being sealed in the Twilight Realm So the Rito was around with the Zoras
Here's an idea for why there's not even a trace of a bird-like tribe in many of the other games: They live in places outside Hyrule like the Watarara from the Ocarina of Time manga.
But nintendo also stated previously that rito and zora couldn't survive at the same time, and it is stated in game that the zora evolved into the rito to survive. So the fact that they exist at the same time in BOTW is... questionable.
MistaOppritunity From what I understand, Zora evolved into Rito during Wind Waker because they couldn’t survive the flooding, which I personally believe is what Nintendo meant by not being able to exist simultaneously, not necessarily saying that both races cannot exist together but rather that they could not exist without the Zora evolving into Rito. Based on the fact that they earn their wings at a certain age by retrieving a dragon scale from Valoo, I think it’s quite possible that they didn’t evolve naturally at all. It’s possible that when the flood occurred and they fled to Dragon Roost, Valoo took it upon themself to protect the Zora by giving them the dragon scales and thus the power of flight. Assuming that theory could be true, it’s very possible that after eventually when a new land was discovered some of the Rito decided to return to their old ways, ditching the dragon scales in favor of the water dragon scales and through this returned to the water and became Zora once again. I believe Commonwealth Realm has a video on a similar Zora evolution theory, it may be worth watching!
I'm Mr Anonymous it does make sense i mean I don’t think we evolved from specifically chimpanzees but yeah something similar to it I mean we’re already apes but still we’re so much different to every other one because we are evolved I bet when a chimp evolves it won’t be like us but something probably like us same with a gorilla but probably only stronger it’s crazy how evolution works
@@featgoose972 Homo sapien sapiens(that's us) are literally a species of ape. We evolved from apes, and we didn't evolve into something other than an ape. We still have no tail, the same facial structure, the same hands and the same legs.
How I see it, it can be that the Loftwings splitted up into 2 groups: the Oocca from Twilight princess, and the Rito in Breath of the Wild. The Loftwings could've splitted into those 2 groups when some went back to the sky, while some stayed at the surface. EDIT: I was just thinking, if this evolution theory is true, what if Revali is one of the descendants of Link's Loftwings? Or could Teba be a descendant, or both?
I always felt that the Zoras had split off from each other with one side staying as a different kind of Zora, and the other group turned into the Rito in WW. That could explain why they are in the same place in the timeline.
Ok so hear me out: The fact that Ritos are descendants of the Zoras is a misconception. When Ritos were introduced in Wind Waker, they were already living at the same time as the zoras, the later having been wiped out by Ganon recently before you arrive to Greatfish Island (literally what Quill/KoRL tell you) Upon arrival at Greatfish Island KoRL says: "...We are too late. I knew we had precious little time, but I never suspected how little... A great water spirit named Jabun once lived here, but no sign of him remains... " Emphasis on the "little time" not "eons long enough for evolution to take place" Also, when Aonuma mentioned in an interview that "Ritos are the evolution of the Zoras" it was meant from an artistic/char design/gameplay point of view, not a lore perspective. The meaning has been made more ambiguous in the translation to english leading to the misconception. I don't get why people are so attached to this evolution idea. It has never been a thing and will never be one.
@alugwin Nah, there could be implicit evolution in Zelda lore, but the Zora -> Rito thing has always been misunderstood after Aonuma's interview. Both species are contemporary of the other and not ancestor and descendant.
It's confirmed ingame that the Rito descended from Zoras. Laruto, the Zora sage of the Earth Temple, tells Link "You must find the one who carries on my bloodline..." while referring to Medli. So Medli, a Rito, is a descendant of Laruto, a Zora, meaning Rito in general are probably descended from Zoras
And as for Greatfish Island, the text only talks about Jabun, not mentioning zoras or if he has any relation to them. There could be zoras surviving somewhere that didn't become Rito, but there's nothing that says they were on Greatfish.
All humans originally had dark skin when they were in Africa. When some migrated to cloudy areas they lost pigmentation and hair grew straight for cover from the cold. These humans now exist, but so do humans with darker skin and tight coiley hair. Perhaps this is what happened with the Zoras and Ritos. They both stem from the same origin and live simultaneously based on climate. In anthropology we refer to this as clines.
I'm pretty sure at one point there were Oceanic and River Zora. Both of which hated the other. After the Great Flood maybe the River Zora evolved into Rito for survival. Seeing as the water was now all salt water.
@@terenarosa4790 how about explaining why he's wrong instead of being a piece of crap next time honey. Don't bring negativity to a comment where the commenter is being polite and informative. Grow up, you sound like a child.
Honestly as interesting a theory as this one is, it seems more likely that Zoras from another Country or place like the "Great Bay" migrated or fleed to Hyrule, unchanged by the circumstances of an immense flood. As for the Rito an inevitable evolution of Zoras in the occurrence of a great flood elsewhere could be the cause through migration or other outside circumstances hense fourth bringing both Species to be found in Hyrule eventually in every timeline.
Yeah there's nothing to say that one population of Zora couldn't evolve to the Rito while other populations of Zora stay similar enough to their ancestors to still be called Zora. Like, that's how things often happen IRL.
If you think about Zeltik's theory on how BoTW and it's sequel take place in the child timeline, you could make a theory that some of the loftwings stayed in the sky and became the Uca and some of them became the Rito, just in time to show up before BoTW takes place
It's also possible that the timelines converged, leaving both. It could also mean that the bird things never appeared in other timelines because they couldn't be reached outside of tp
Why does Zora evolving into Rito mean *all* Zora did? I always figured *some* did, like in WW, I figured there were still Zora somewhere in the world, just the ones who stayed on that island evolved (which is pretty accurate towards real world closed of species). I mean, are you telling me the downfall timeline swamp thing Zora evolved *back* into the dainty lil fishfolk we see in BotW? I'm not saying the Loftwing-Rito connection is impossible, just saying evolution isn't mutually exclusive
The Sea Zora of Labrynna are the same as the Zora in Ocarina of Time and they follow Jabu Jabu too... Meaning, they might be the same Zora emigrating from Hyrule.
When I was growing up playing Zelda, I used to wonder if there were some sort of continuity or if Nintendo doesn't care...they just wanna make great games It's like how the Simpsons is almost as old as the Zelda series & it's contradicted itself several times over the years
Also the real question is why would the Zora have to turn into the Rito to survive the flood?...Zora are fish people!!! Also I felt it was that the gods turned the Zora into the Rito bcuz the gods sent the flood...but then again the Deku tree mentions that the Koroks actually developed from the Kokiri
& one last thing, I love Wind Waker. It was my 1st console Zelda game. But I was surprised by the lack of diversity in tribes. You don't really see Gorons. There are no Sheikah & the only Gerudo you see is Ganondorf. One thing I love about BotW is how it's the most diverse game & really develops the Gerudo & Sheikah tribes. & now we'll be seeing the Zonai
@@krishnamckay3247 As for why the Zora turned into Rito to survive the Great Flood, yes they are fish people but at the same time flood waters aren't very friendly to supporting life and by the time it became the Great Sea, they may have already evolved. There's also the fact that the great sea contains salt water which these Zora may not have been able to survive in, after all the Zora from Ocarina of Time were only seen in fresh water. And then there is also the fact that the Great Sea was very dangerous with it's assortment of giant and powerful monsters.
My whole take on the Rito and Zora being together was that at some point in the the other timeline that a group of Zora split from the main group and underwent similar experience that the adult timeline went through and became Rito, enough time have passed for it to be possible.
I'm really glad that you dedicated an entire video to this. More people should be talking about this theory, because it makes so much sense. Personally, I've believed that the BotW Rito are the descendants of the Loftwings ever since it was first revealed that the Rito and Zora would both appear in the same game. I think that the reason the Rito in Breath of the Wild and the Rito in Wind Waker are both called the "Rito" is because the word "rito" might mean "bird" in some form of the Hylian language.
@@mclaire9447 Why? It makes sense, as officially Nintendo said the Zora evolved into the Rito. So it makes sense that an offspring between a Zora and Rito counts as evolution. Also look at the Rito's in BOTW they have various colored feathers like the loftwings. Yes the Zoras are also colorful in BOTW but not much variety in color like the Loftwings and Rito's. Also it doesn't make sense to why Zoras would develop wings for flying when they originally can walk on land before the flood in Wind Waker, It would make more sense if they tried to adapt to living in salt water than developing wings. And even if they did grow wings how did they developed chicken legs, a beak, and full body feathers. Not all flying animals need feathers to fly like bats and butterflies.
I really like this idea. I always assumed the Rito from BOTW evolved from the fresh water Zora, that we've known of in previous games. The Zora found in BOTW are, likely, the salt water, more of a kin to Majora's Mask type of Zora.
My most favorite theory imo is that in Breath of the Wild, all timelines merged into one. An indication for that is the game Hyrule Warriors because in that game the three split timelines after the the Ocarina of Time event (Defeat of the Hero Timeline, Child Timeline and Adult Timeline) merged into one timeline. Link in Hyrule Warriors had a blue scarf which kind of resembled the champion's tunic from Breath of the Wild so it could be an indication that Breath of the Wild happens thousands of years after the Hyrule Warriors event. And because the timelines merged into one timeline the Zora and the Rito exist in the same universe
@@They_are_Arthur Did they? I didn't know about this but even if, it could've created two different timelines again in which the merged timelines split and in the other timeline, the timelines are still merged. In the law of quantum phisics, this is quite possible
Couple of points on this overall theory. First the idea on your previous video about Loftwings turning into the Occa could be very true still, as their home would very much be the remains of Skyloft. Now expanding on the first point you had a theory that the wind tribe of minish cap could have been an evolutionary point for the Loftwings as well but that would be extremely unlikely from a lore stand point, and more likely the source of the "human" features of the Occa as a hybrid race between Loftwings and Hylians. Second Zora and Rito could very likely exist alongside each other during Wind Waker, as there are two types of Zora, River Zora and Ocean Zora. While the evolutionary model doesn't make as much sense the Ocean Zora could have turned into the Fishmen of Wind Waker while River Zora turned into Rito. Third Point point ties back into the first Occa were quasi-humanoids in a chicken version of a mermaid, and thus could have been early stages of the transition for pure bird, of the Loftwings to the humanoid Rito, for the majority of possible Rito out there while some even if we never see them could be more "human" in features as decedents of the Wind Waker Rito among that side of the timeline split. Though this all assumes BotW is just an inevitable conclusion of the timelines to that chronological point in history making it so BotW has three separate worlds for the timeline split, instead of the stable cascade of the three timelines to merge back together.
I would like make two points, both from Majora's Mask. #1- The Zora have underwater cities in the ocean already and they have gills so they could live there indefinitely. #2- I always fought that The Rito where the unnamed fifth race from Majora's Mask, there are several statues of Men with bird's faces, mind you they were in a ruined state so.
Another thing that sorta supports this is the owl in ocarina of time, the loftwings might have started their evolution but been stunted or delayed by the timeline split ending with the eventual Rito tribe in breath of the wild if you think about it the owl can speak is a large bird an watched over link through his journey as if send by the goddess Hylia.. it might be a stretch but there is a smidge of a connection I feel.
For adult timeline, after the flood receded, i wanna believe some Zorito as i call them, went back to the safer waters and de-volved back into original form, while others stayed among the skies and evolved farther bird features
Watching after TOTK, I think we could be seeing one of the DLC delving deeper into what it means for Zelda to be the sage of time. In other continuities, other Zeldas had training. Usually by Impa. Mineru makes a point to say sages still have to develop their power. Zelda's path and growth in this incarnation is perhaps healing the timelines of possible damage. She wouldn't know about the original split, but she does know about her own impact. The memories do seem to hint that Queen Sonia had been giving her some training with time powers. Starting with her surprised by Sonia's nonchalant use of rewind on the teacup fastforward to Zelda & Sonia confronting the imposter together. We don't really get anything further expanding. The other sages regard her as the Sage of Time, and that was her role in the imprisoning war. But what exactly did that entail? Now that Impa has officially retired as chief of Kakariko, is this when she takes up a role as an advisor?
Another thing to take into account when comparing the Rito from Botw and from ww is that in botw each of their large hand feathers acts as a finger, meaning that bones go through them which distinguish them from actual birds. Since the loftwings from skyward sword do not have this feather-finger thing, I believe that the Rito from Botw are a kind of human-bird crossbreed. This has evolutionary similarity to real life, as ancient homo erectus tribes which came into contact with homo sapien tribes were still compatible for reproduction, thus accounting for homo erectus DNA in some ethnicities today. While birds are very different from humans, there is the possibility that it wasn't the loftwings which crossbred with the Hylians, rather the wind tribe.
I expect that you're correct that the Loftwings evolved into the Rito of Breath of the Wild (they could have potentially even interbred with the Rito from Wind Waker). However, I've always thought that not every person in Skyloft would have necessarily moved to the surface; I expect that those who stayed above became the Wind Tribe (or some who came to the surface returned to the sky to become them), and those in the clouds eventually became the Oocco
My personal headcanon for the timeline, is that the Calamity that takes place 10,000 years before breath of the wild and which the sheikah had to build the Divine Beast , was caused by demise trying to avoid his ultimate defeat by pulling all 3 versions of himself at the point of their defeats in the different timelines. Back together as one. Making him whole oh, and granting him the powers and abilities of the three various timeline gannon's. However doing so also forced the timelines themselves to merge into one, causing a great calamity when locations people and items from all three merged into one reality. This explains why we have lynels from the hero's downfall alongside the Rito from Wind Waker. And why locations from all three timelines are all over the place but scattered and out of place in breath of the Wild. Forcing the three goddesses to intervene to keep the world from being completely destroyed by merging it the rest of the way into what we see today. That's just my personal headcanon but it would make sense considering how things from different timeline splits all seem to be in the same game. Plus it explains why the Calamity was so disastrous and why they had to go over the top with gigantic Guardian beasts and an army of Guardian robots in order to fight Ganon, he was just that powerful that it required that much of an effort after merging with all three of his selves.
In the Latin Spanish version of BotW, when Link remembers Revali and the scene is played, instead of just saying "I forgot you have no way of making it to that Divine Beast on your own" he adds "Want a ride?" Obviously with the sarcastic tune in his voice, but that could be another reference of the Rito's past in Hyrule's history...
I find a small issue with the theory about them not being able to evolve from the Zora in the child Wind Waker timeline. The Zora evolved into 2 forms, & is repeatedly supported in the game when sailing. You have the Rito evolution, but then there's the fish that can give you hints if you throw bait into the water near one jumping close to one of the islands.
YES! In my version of this theory, there are two groups of humans after Skyward Sword: those who settled on the surface and founded Hyrule, and those who returned to (or stayed in) the sky. The latter become the wind tribe, and then eventually the Oocca. In the adult timeline the Zora evolve into Rito with Valoo’s help, but after the ocean drains out leading to BotW they don’t need their wings, and stop getting scales from Valoo, and evolve back into Zora. Meanwhile the loftwings become the more bird like Rito. In any other timeline it’s the same but without the Zora evolving.
Ok, since we got the first glimpses of the Rito in BotW, I thought that they may be descendants of the Loftwings and not the Zora. I wrote a huge essay about it over on my Amino page. Also, there ARE other Ritos in the Zelda timeline. The owl in Links Awakening has to be a Rito and kaepora gaebora (rauru) also takes the form of a Rito - he even has a lot of similarities to the Rito elder in BotW. I believe that when Valoo gave the Zora wings to survive the flood, he named them Rito because they became similar to an already existing tribe and when the floods receded, valoo stoped their forced evolution and they reverted back. Just because you don’t see a tribe EVERYWHERE in the game doesn’t mean they don’t exist in the world. Take the sheikah for example. Every past Zelda game said that Impa was the last Sheikah but lo and behold, there she was in the next game claiming to be the last. But they’re the shadow clan. They WANT you to think they don’t exist so they can work in the shadows without anyone noticing them. You see the sheikah eye on various individuals in TP but they don’t claim to be sheikah but we can suspect that they are. They only came out in the open in BotW and stoped being a shadow clan because the royal family and hyrule 10,000 years ago became afraid of their power and magic which also caused the sheikah/ yiga split. So yes, I believe the Rito descend from the loftwings but have definitely, always existed in the Zelda world and have no genealogical link to the Zora at all.
Great video, but just a quick correction: there are carvings of loftwings on the architecture found in Botw; they can be found on the walls of the Forgotten Temple and, at least I'm pretty sure, in the Lanaryu Promenade as well.
@@nonoctoro4933 Yeah, a change of some kind was inevitable, my personal theory is WW Rito are actually a cross breeding of Zora and Gerudo (possibly also Shiekah) in a Shiekah plan to preserve the races as the flood began. That combination of genetics combined with Valoo would allow their descendents to fly in the flooded world. The Rito are far from Zora's domain and lake hylia, death mountain, with it's warmth and arid terrain, would be the next best place for someone with Gerudo blood to go. Maybe the Zora who refused got all buff from always swimming, hunting for fish to eat and fighting sharks instead of being amphibious and living within a defined space as a society
@@AdamTheGameBoy The Rito being human-Zora hybrids is also one of my theories. They kinda look human ... they have really human like hair and skin. The features only appears when they obtain the scale from Valoo. Valoo ... which would scare off the Goron. Thus forcing Jabun to send his servants to Valoo in order to protect the pearl and also since he doesn't really need them unlike Jabu Jabu that was unable to feed himself stuck in a pool. As seen by Ruto and Mipha, there is little to no taboo as for the alliance between a human and a Zora, this would explain things like the Post Guy. Then Valoo gave them Bird features as the Sky Spirit, they need his scales to grow wings.
Breath of the Wild references Skyward Sword with the ballon girl Shamae at the Woodland Stable, who 'dreams of an island in the sky where people used to ride around on big birds' and says that these stories have faded into legend over time.
Nintendo says that botw takes place after all timelines! Does anyone remember a couple years back Nintendo stating that botw has nothing to do with Wind Waker?
And when exploring the game, it's clear like clean water that this has nothing to do with TWW. They never said it was merging the Timelines, they refused to tell us where it was and gave us the statement that it's at the very end and that players are expected to imagine which one it is because it's more fun that way.
Personally Wind Waker is my least favorite Zelda game! but I honestly remember Nintendo saying that cuz after I heard it I was literally jumping with joy!
I honestly hate hearing that breath of the wild take place after Wind Waker! I don't think there is any way it can! Some examples are because the landmarks wouldn't exist after Wind Waker the master sword would still be under the ocean! And I'm not sure if this actually happened but didn't the Gerudo go extinct in the wind waker era?
Zora existing with Rito makes sense if you take into consideration that multiple evolutions of the Zora (river Zora, Zelda II Zora) have existed in the same game before. But they could be the loftwings.
I was gonna say what about the bird tribes in the ocarina of time manga but the manga isn’t canon TwT also they’re not called ritos in the manga they’re a different race, which is interesting and would love to see in a Zelda game.
The Watarara Tribe was a really cool added concept, and they're probably OoT's non-canon version of the Rito Tribe, just so the two authors, Akira Himekawa, could have fun adding their own species and mini story to Ocarina of Time.
River Luciana !!! Thank you, that’s what they’re called :) I wish the Zelda manga would be canon but if it was it could be confusing...I think? But it would give a lot of backstory to some characters or enemies. For example in OOT the game you fight volvagia the dragon in death mountain as a boss for the fire temple. To people that just play the game they see him ass a regular boss, but to people who read the manga they see him as Link’s old pet/friend that he had to put down TwT (I’m not crying you’re crying) it would’ve been cool if the put that in the game.
@@OGZelda626 You're right, it would make it hella confusing QwQ -(not that Zelda lore isn't ALREADY a mishmashed mess of confusion).- I LOVE the Akira Himekawa Zelda manga series, I've had the box set for many years and have re-read it a ton, especially OoT. I love how they expand upon the games and add their own little amounts of lore and backstory and give Link an actual voice and relatable character. Omg yeah I relate... baby Volvagia getting corrupted like Naydra and killed by Link who didn't want to kill him was such an emotional moment, and gave STRONG motivation for the Hero of Time to get revenge on Ganondorf. btw, I bought all the Twilight Princess manga by them and I'm reading through it so no spoilers that aren't already from the game.
The Timeline that explains both creatures exist together is games in the Downfall Timeline: Adventures of Link and Oracles of Ages. LoZ 2 had bird-like warriors that appeared as enemies and Orcale of Ages had the sea/OOT Zoras.
Agreed and just think the river Zora reclaiming Zoras domain and evolving into the bizarre Zora we see in BOTW. We know queen Oren brought the river Zora back to peace so why wouldn't they seek to reclaim their ancestral birthright in zoras domain? We already know the sea zora left so, why not? Also the King making sure to write down all their history just reinforces to me how the river zora would want to remember their origins as regular zora and preserve it for history and help them remind themselves where they came from.
In BOTW there is a child who talks about people who lived above the clouds and rode on giant birds. They're at one of the stables, but i forget which one.
Crazy Idea here. What about the Rito being the evolved Zora from the adult time line and the Zora being the River Zora from the other time lines having found peace and devolving back to their Zelda:OoT forms.
Super happy you brought Up the wind tribe from the minish cap I feel like a lot of details and lore from minish cap just get thrown off the cliff a lot. like how the legendary sword from it just disappeared. In BOTW though I always though the zora looked a bit like the sharks from Wind waker.
I had not even considered Minish Cap’s Wind Tribe’s relation to the Loftwings and Skyloft! Great point! It’s easy to miss these potential connections since the games are so spread out. Very astute!
It’s totally possible that some zora went on land and evolved to rito and some Zora stayed in the water. I mean, chimps and humans live side by side, despite us evolving from them.
@@HyruleGamer The Zora in the adult timeline all became Rito otherwise we would have had a source that said some Zora fled and some zora stayed which is exactly what happened in the fallen hero timeline.
Well technically we didn't evolve from chimps, a different animal evolved into both humans and chimps when their population was divided. Still the same basic idea, one creature splitting into two.
my theory is that after leaving skyloft because they could no longer stay because the goddesses forced them to the surface so they didn't have to make islands float anymore some of the hylians wishing to return to the sky became the wind tribe and latter the occa and that the loftwings evolved into the rito found in breath of the wild
Personally I always thought that when the three timelines re-merged, elements of all three timelines merged together, which would explain why they both exist in the same era (timey-wimey stuff). It would also explain why elements of all three timelines are remembered and referenced in BotW, if the timelines slowly merged in a way that all the sentinient beings weren’t aware. Which would potentially be why no one realises some past events that are referenced conflict with each other.
Nonsense, since timelines can't merge into one again. Each of the timelines are the result of different events. Besides, the three different timelines can't exist at the same time. It's either the childhood and adult timeline *OR* the downfall timeline, since Link can't defeat Ganon in OoT and loose to him at the same time.
PhazonKing also I think most would agree the timelines do exist as the same time, hence the reason of the timeline split. The adult and the child timeline almost certainly exist in parallel, as it occurred when link went back in time and one existed without him and the other is the time he went back to.
@@PhazonKing All these quantum mechanic experts out here. If they can split, they can merge. A split is a theory, one of many that has to do with what are essentially different dimensions. They exist simultaneously just like all iterations of reality. Time is not a straight line, Zelda's timeline is a bullshit fan addition, and we're talking about concepts that may or may not exist in the first place.
Okay, so in Skyward Sword, there's more than one sky island, but we only really see the Skyloft capitol descend (not even the isles attached by bridges come with it!). My theory is this: Some of the people who lived on these other islands had not been on Skyloft when it descended, and because of this, they became the Wind Tribe. The Wind Tribe, left alone and so close to the gods, may have been slowly changed into the Oocca. The Loftwings, which likely nested on different islands from the Wind Tribe/Oocca would then slowly become more and more like the Rito we know from BoTW. As for the Windwaker conundrum, try this on for size: Divergent Evolution. Some of the Zora became Rito. Some of the Zora became big chatty fish who like to stalk weird kids in magical boats. The Chatty Fish Zora returned to Zorahood. The Rito evolved into Birdier people. The Loftwings were taken back by the Goddess and transformed or simply ceased to exist because if they're brutal enough to drown the world, they're brutal enough to unmake the pretty birds.
@@HyruleGamer but does it have to be explicitly stated? I mean, think about actual evolutionary science: species diverge. That's it. Just think about dogs vs wolves. No one thousands of years ago would see a chihuahua and think "that's clearly related to my wolf." I mean, species obviously evolve over time in the zelda zeldaverse already, why not just a simple explanation with real-world parallels?
Here's another very plausible and simple theory that is based in science; The Zora and Rito in Breath of the Wild simply both evolved from the Zora. You might think it sounds silly but it really isn't. Let's use a real life example: prehistoric human (homo erectus) evolved into modern humans (homo sapiens) and Neanderthals (homo neanderthalensis). The homo erectus species was slightly different to us but are still referred to as having been humans just as we are referred to as humans despite being different species. The Zora in Ocarina of Time are clearly different to the Zora in BotW in some ways so it's very plausible that the Zora from OoT simply just evolved into two different species: a new species of Zora and a new species of Rito. It's very common for a single species to evolve into multiple new species. In fact, it's probably more common for a single species to evolve into multiple rather than a single new species.
@@nonoctoro4933 The river Zora completely changed in appearance while as the sea zora retain the original form of the zora in as seen in OOT and TP. I made a post about this in the comments but I'll repeat myself here. The river Zora IMO evolve into the Zora from BOTW. When you see how the river zora mutated in the DF timeline and then compare that to the completely unique and unnatural BOTW zora who have multitudes of colors and fish mutations, it seems clear to me that the river zora reclaimed zora domain after Queen Oren brought them back to their civilized roots. When they re settled they likely decided on bringing back a King just like the good old days when the zora species was 1 and the same. Now unfortunately they had no idea where their brother species of the old zora were or if they were even alive but they did have knowledge passed down from back then. To make sure they would never lose that knowledge, the new King decided to etch their history in stone tablets so that they would never forget their true zora lineage.
In WW, the goddesses transformed the Zora into the Rito so they couldn't find the flooded Hyrule, and perhaps over time the Rito started reverting back into Zora again since they were only transformed to protect the lost kingdom of Hyrule. After WW there would no longer be a reason to keep the now Ritos away so eventually Ritos started birthing Zora children and then over time there were only Zoras. I like the idea of the Loftwings being the ancestors to BotW's Rito. Perhaps these Rito are also a product of the goddesses' intervention, but instead of transforming Zora into Rito, they transformed the Loftwings and sent them from wherever they went after SS and had them live in Hyrule as the new Rito.
The theory I have been waiting for. Although, what about the Ooca from Twilight Princess? They are literal chicken bodies with human heads. What would their evolution be now? Perhaps they are Rito too, since I doubt they would be of much use being as they are..
In breath of the wild there’s a little girl that asks you to make a barrel lift using octorok balloons, she references the loft wings, and the forgotten temple has carvings of the loftwings on its walls
Considering how many hundreds of thousands of years have passed from SS to BotW, I'm even wondering if some Rito became corrupted into the birdlike wizzrobes from the Toon Link games, only for that curse to be subsumed one their civilization stabilized and the zora returned to Hyrule
Hello hi, new person to the Zelda franchise here, having only played BotW :) (and a lil bit of the WW remake) I'm studying biology and am finishing a course on evolution currently, so I wanted to present my own thoughts: But first! tl;dr The idea that the Rito and Zora coexist in BotW despite one having evolved from the other isn't too farfetched in and of itself due to the rapid opening and closing of ecological niches or "roles" within Hyrule thanks to the just-as-rapidly-changing environment, especially as seen in the adult timeline. One thing I'd also like to point out, though, is that Hyrule seems to have a verrrrrry ecologically dynamic history, with changes being made to the entire map at a time with the great flood that sets up for WW to entire landmasses moving from place to place (like the Great Plateau/Korok Forest shenanigans). Because of these changes, there would be a lot of need for evolution (and to a degree, quick evolution in response to events like the ones I listed above) from the populations living there in order to keep up with the formation of new ecological niches, new technology, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rito from WW are definitively evolved from the Zora of OoT, no? Well, assuming quick evolutionary responses are possible, let's consider how things developed: Hyrule was at least semi-normal, from a geographic standpoint, during the events of OoT, from what I've seen. If the Zora existed at that point in the timeline, they obviously had a reason to because they filled some sort of ecological niche (being amphibious...whatever purpose they served. Again, I've never played the game, so my speculation there is limited at best.) When the world was flooded pre-WW, the Zoras' niche was dissolved, since suddenly their habitat became... a lot bigger and involving a lot of other species that probably could have presented threatening competition even if we didn't see it. So, the evolution makes sense in that way: despite being "fish out of water," they would have had significantly less competition by taking a more avian, less aquatic form since most life at this point would most certainly have existed underwater. Once the flood ended and the waters receded so that life became more terrestrial again, the abundance of life in the oceans would have decreased again, going back to resembling what the environment was pre-global flood (so around the time of OoT). If that's the case, then it would also make sense for there to be a gradual return to the water for the WW Rito, since their ecological niche would have reduced competition again, allowing for a re-establishment of the Zora species building toward that which we see in BotW. So then why are there still Rito, and why would they look even more avian than in WW? Well, the skies are also a sort of ecosystem to consider, and if the Rito had the ability to fly, in addition to other abilities that would have made them even more adaptable to the environment than your average, everyday birds of Hyrule, then they would have survived well maintaining as Rito. The more avian appearance (especially with a more feathered look) could be due also to the climate they live in; Tabantha is quite close to Hebra and appears to be very temperate, meaning much colder winters. Seeing as the Zora don't appear to be migratory, having made a full-fledged settlement, they would need to adapt to the harsher temperature patterns than that of WW, seeing as water is really effective at keeping temperatures fairly constant. Not discrediting the hypothesis put forth in the video, by any means; I have a lot less expertise in this franchise than you and others in the comments section. But I just wanted to put forth my own views/hypothesis based on the information presented and my experience dealing with evolution and my understanding of ecology. :D
Breath of the Wild being the inevitable outcome of all three timelines is very confusing... Because it references almost every timeline individually, implying that the events parallel each other. At that point, why do we even have a timeline split in the first place? The description of the rock salt implies that it was left over from the Great Sea. That means in all three timelines Hyrule gets flooded at one point or another... Gosh the Zelda timeline is a mess.
I actually was thinking about this the other night while having trouble sleeping. What if the Zora in WW were told to go to the mountain tops by the king/goddesses to keep them alive and safe, where the goddesses intended to turn them into bird people, at least temporarily. What if the majority of them did and we're turned into humanoid bird people, and some didn't and thought that fish people would be fine in a sea, only to be turned into the fish that give link his maps as punishment for not listening? Then those rito, being more humanoid at that point, either die off, breed in with hylians and become human, or are returned to zora shape. And the map fish become either regular fish or earn their zora forms by helping ww link? The wind tribe could be a loftwing example of the same thing. Some of them became humanoid (the wind tribe) and died out for not listening to the goddesses, and the rest became the bird people we know as rito in botw. Or maybe the two types of rito bred together to become what we know now? after all, the rito and zora in botw DO seem to have the same physical proportions as the rito in ww don't they? long torso, long arms, tiny legs in comparison to the rest of them... they certainly seem like they came from the same base race don't they??
I like this Theory it is very possible another possible theory is what if they both originated from the same species but one is an offshoot tribe that went off and develop in their own way
In WW it was stated that the Rito need one of Valoo's scales to "evolve" wings.(literally the exact wording used) If we take that at face value, it could mean that the first few Zora to become rito, were Zoras that somehow came into contact with Valoo. But I don't believe ALL Zora evolved but rather some went into hiding just like the Gorons. The only Gorons we ever see are the merchants who came from a faraway land. Anyways if Valoos scale is that effective then it's possible it can be used on other races as well (which might explain the postmans descendant we see) Now it's true we don't see Valoo in other timelines, but to be fair we don't see the deku tree or koroks/kokiri in other timelines either. It's also possible that the Zora we see are actually from termina. Also, wind wakers Rito could just as easily evolve into their more birdlike appearance, just like how Zora changed to include more color variations and head shapes, giving them a more fish like appearance than ever before as well.
At least you admit that Botw falls at the end of all the timelines! Monster Maze and NBC will not even admit that it's the inevitable outcome of all three timelines - they still think it has to have a "Placement in one of the timelines". Ludacris. Zeltik with his circular timeline theory also would seem to point to him believing that BotW falls at the end of all 3 timelines.
(Just my own tiny sleep deprived theory, so don't read if you want to) Maybe in some land, far from hyrule, the Zora met the loftwings. And over time, through 'some' evolution, the loftwings changed into the rito that we know. And becoming something before the rito in windwaker, the Rito possibly grown as people and gone into relations in courtship with the zora. I'm getting the relation thing of zora and rito from how Medli's ancestor being a zora. And the zora possibly moved the evolution to the windwaker rito. And I'm also wanting to think that Kaepora Gaepora is possibly one of those early Rito before windwaker, being able to talk and having a relation to the hero in skyward sword and also might be a bit of a reincarnation of Kaepora, the leader/ruler of Skyloft due to the same name and bit of the same facial/feather features as a tie to way back from old Skyward to Ocarina Links. And, I know the person who made the pictures in twilight princess wanted some fun when making them, I'm guessing thats when the zora came back and the rito were wind waker styled-ish. And then the rito evoled some more and became how the rito are today. So yeah, thats my own little theory of the rito and zora being together in botw. Again a tad sleep deprived and such here but I found this vid and wanted to make my own long winded theory on the thing
Skyward Sword and Loftwings are actually mentioned in botw. It’s probably just meant to be an easter egg without much canonical meaning but a kid at one of the stables, upon completing his quest of lifting some barrels with octo balloons, talks about a legend of a town in the sky and people riding giant birds.
Like so many people have said, that's not how evolution works. That said, I do think that this is the best explanation overall. The Rito evolving from the Loftwings explains the origin of the Rito in Breath of the Wild. I could even see the Loftwings splitting into two populations that evolved variably into the Rito and the Ooca. The Rito in Wind Waker are probably an offshoot of those Rito, and the Zora explanation is a local legend started by the Hylians when a population of Rito came in the scene at the same time that the Zora found their own way to survive the ocean
"Inevitable end" can mean that no matter where do the timeline splits, it will always end up with Zora and Rito. there is also the salt that, if I remember correctly, seems to come from the sea, which would mean that no matter what happened, Hyrule would end up washed away by the sea in any point of time, forcing the Zora from Hyrule to evolve into Rito over an extended period of time until the sea dried up, enough time to make the Rito, who are half-birds, turn into full fledged bird people, while Zora might exist in other places other than Hyrule, as well as the other races like Gorons and Hylians, which are prooven to exist in Spirit Tracks. In the end, no matter when the great flood happened, since Breath of the Wild is most likely more than 10 000 years in the future, where the Zonai might have found the old relics of the now dried up kingdom and rebuilt it before the old royal family for some reason came back to take the throne (Most likely by force, if we know about the Hylian monarchy's history), it happened. That forced the Zora to turn into Rito and with time, said Rito became actual bird people instead of semi-bird people.
Cool video man! I personally think its just that some of the Zora evolved into rito and some stayed as zora. It's like the Darwin thing with the two groups of the same species of birds that when living in separate regions, evolved differently from eachother. Also u could explain not seeing the Zora in wind waker by the fact that they could have been living somewhere underwater that you couldn't explore in game. But they say breath of the wild is probably in its own timeline anyway. IDK. But that's my theory on it! 😁 I actually never played skyward sword :( but ur loft wing theory makes a lot of sense
Also, in a manga based of Ocarina of time, it suggests the rito were alive during the hero of time's childhood due to a bonus story at the end of the manga. So if we consider any part of that cannon in any way, then it can make some more sense.
Weren’t those fish-like enemies in Hour Glass and Phantom Tracks technically an offshoot of the Ruto? The ones who jump up from the water, can shoot fire, and normally use a sword and wooden shield. Now yes, Hourglass is in a different world, but Phantom Tracks still is within the same world as Hyrule and did sport those enemies if memory serves me right.
Another great thought provoking theory! I always get excited whenever you post your Zelda theories and I always like to hear what others think when it comes to certain aspects seen in Zelda. I know for that people have speculated the connection between the Loftwings an the Ooca, as well as the Wind Tribe shown in Minish Cap, but I never thought about there being a connection between the Wind Tribe and the BOTW Rito to be a thing.
Oh man, I just remembered something. Has anyone read the "A Link To the Past" comic published in Nintendo power however long ago? I read a PDF version of it like a decade ago. I remember being surprised at how good it was. So there were a couple deviations from the game that are of note. First of all Link didn't turn into a bunny when he tried to enter the dark world. He started turning into a feral beast, and his arm grew claws and fur like a werewolf. There was also this other character who was on the same path as Link but was always jealous and bragged all the time. Get this: He had a bird-like character design, later became a bird/human hybrid when he entered the dark world, AND his weapon was the bow which he was really skilled at. I need to find it again to get the details, but I just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone who wants to check it out.
Me: No one mentions the Royal Crest having a Loftwing on it! HG: *suddenly mentions it as the only thing about loftwing since* I give you props good sir. Not only did you read my mind FROM THE PAST IN A CURRENT VIDEO, but you also mentioned that very thing that no one else did.
![Breath of The Wild's Most Interesting Characters/NPCs! [ft. @HylianLuke]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ycmDcdk9fhM/mqdefault.jpg)
*World floods*
Fish people: We need to become birds!
This always bothered me hahaha
To be fair, I believe it talks about the water becoming dangerous and fill of monsters, so it wasn't smart for them to continue to live there as far as natural selection went
@@herohearts1919 still would not explain them going from fish people to bird people like that in a snap though, even with evolution it still would of taken easily centuries or more to evolve to even be slightly bird like, and it is not like they are a weak people or anything, they could also probably find underwater caves that did not just instantly fill with water and instead were hallow, there is plenty around in the land of hyrule that could be like that, and even if they just packed up to a island, they could still swim around, dip their feet every now and then.
Their quick evolution to birds could've been supplied with magic. I've seen a theory, and personally like it, that the Zora changed into Rito so they wouldn't be able to dive deep and see what happened to old Hyrule. Maybe the past events were supposed to fall into obscurity but it could've also worked as a safety measure: no one goes to the Hyrule castle, no one would cause Ganon to escape. (Although that didn't work) And it would also help with hiding the Triforce of Courage (as well as the temples), as it seems it was hidden only in chests at the bottom of the ocean. Without all that water it would've been pretty easy to find:) so I see it as a work of the goddesses to change their appearance so drastically, similar to the change from Kokiri to Koroks, they could've happened at the same time. :)
I always thought that the goddesses decided to change them because they would easily be able to dominate all other races and the goddesses wanted to keep balance
Plot Twist: Revali is such a cocky chicken because he thinks he's a direct descendant of the red loftwing. Little does he know he's a direct descendant of Groose's.
Haha
Hyrule Gamer ja ja ja
*Ravioli
No the gerudo are descendants of groose the rito are zora that went to where they are evolved into the rito not groose groose was a human in other words they are Zora descendants they were evolved from the Zora in wind waker too Ravalli is a rito not a gerudo not a human he is like every other rito evolved from a Zora again the gerudo are descendants of groose the rito are descendants from the zora
Ha! That would explain his cockiness.
Honestly, if Zora can "devolve" into monsters in the Dead Hero Timeline, then majestic giant birds can evolve into bird people. I like!
They are just Feral.
Ooo yeah
Can you please link the zora devolution?
Actually they didn't devolve in the Downfall timeline. During the events of Oracle of Ages Link will encounter two species of Zora. Oceanic Zora and River Zora. The ocean Zora even have a Lord Jabbu Jabbu. The ocean Zora also hate the river Zora with one going as far as to tell Link that he better not dare to confuse an ocean Zora for a river one.
@@eltrainmaroon1352 it is more accurate to say that not ALL Zorah devolved into River Zorah... it is a fact that the River Zorah found in Hyrule (and through extension the ones found on other continents) are descended from the Zorah Tribe we meet and help in Ocarina of Time. Between the events of Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past the Zorah were forced to either devolve into the monsters known as the River Zorah found in the Downfall Timeline or flee from Ganon to another continent (Labrynna).
One more evidence: The Rito's symbol in BotW is very similar to the Loftwing on the Hylian Shield.
Yup!!!
Omg neat it's the androids android doing a headspin!!!! Cool.
Oh I have no idea what yall are talking about but still look at it go!
That doesn't necessarily prove the link to Loftwings since the Hylian crest is a hylian symbol, not a loftwing symbol.
@@envytee9659 Compare that with the Rito crest from Wind Waker.
Honestly nintendo probably got lazy and bored with the separate timelines and decided to just throw all source material into one game just to give us a piss poor reason why, just so they are able to make a linear story. Dont look too hard into it. The Rito originated from wind waker and they said they came from zoras. They didnt say they came from loftwings. Just because looks are similar doesnt mean the rito wouldnt have looked the way they did in wind waker if they used less cartoony designs.
Rito being evolved from zora and there still being zora at the same time is actually not a contradiction. You would get that if the zora split into two isolated populations and one population evolved into rito and the other population remained zora.
And maybe that split might be based on preference of habitat between land and water, since Zoras are amphibious. Honestly I never understood why an acquatic race needed to evolve after the land was flooded. Unless the Zora specifically need freshwater?
@@MrElvenbrother In a fantasy setting, I don't think evolution works the same way. It was probably divinely guided evolution I'm guessing.
@@MrElvenbrother If I remember correctly it was the goddesses directly intervening with their evolution so they wouldn't discover the sunken Hyrule. I could be wrong on that, been a while since I refreshed myself on Windwaker lore
It could be that some of the Zora evolved into the fish people and then they devolved back into the Zora.
You know what i think? I think the Timeline Between
SkywardSword and Breath of the Wild is just a Straight line and that's it But then how did those Lil Creepy Chicken Came to be?
I like to think that Revali is a distant descendant of Groose's loftwing lol since they look fairly similar
Also a great theory!
Ooooo that's interesting, thanks! :D
Damn, that makes sense
Hi hyrule gamer d:
Really? I was under the impression that Revali was a distant descendant of Ruto, X amount of times removed. LOL jk.
Personality also fits 😂
In actual evolution species branch off from each other like how the river Zora and the Sea Zora could end up drastically different.
Rito could be descended from Zora without Zora going extinct, just sayin'
The most logical and best theory. Simple and good.
I mean, come on. Humans evolved from apes, yet apes still exist today as well.
@@randomguyontheinternet871 he didnt say that we evolved from modern apes. We are, however, descendants of and are part of the classification of great apes
Thank GOD!
Yeah the remaining Zora could just adapt.
Exactly. Evolution by natural selection is not linear like Pokémon evolution.
Better sit down, here comes a hot take: Maybe, just maybe, Nintendo doesn't give a damn about continuity as much as fans think, and with BotW specifically, they didn't want to bother adhering to the timeline anymore, so they just took whatever races and other assets they liked from every timeline.
You say "anymore" as if they ever cared in the first place. The only thing they've EVER done for the sake of continuity is Demise's curse. That's it.
And thank God for this. The timeline needs to go away, and I'm glad they created a Hyrule wear things all sort of congeal. I love previous Zelda games, but they were never meant to perfectly fit into a timeline, let alone one that has to split. Everyone pretends like Zelda has been this story driven franchise for some reason.
@@aithjawcraig9876 I mean they had a few direct sequels, but yeah, you're right. This is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
@@aithjawcraig9876 No, Demise's curse was never something adhered to. Its a story that a brilliant man, Hidemaro Fujibayashi, retroactively made up by looking at all the piece of lore that already existed before Skyward Sword and trying to find ways to put it all together as a cohesive story.
@@nocturne000 Zelda has always been a story driven franchise, what are you talking about? It's just that, in the beginning, it was more akin to Final Fantasy where each game was it's own self contained story, with only a couple being direct continuations of each other (like the most famous example of Ocarina of Time -> Majora's Mask, though there are a few more examples)
Did he just "If humans come from apes why are there still apes" but with Zora and Rito?
We came from a species related to apes not apes ug, this were many get wrong
@@scottishwarrior3547 Nope, the species was also an ape. That's like the basis of cladistics. We are apes, our cousin species are apes, therefore the common ancestor was also an ape. Simply put, you don't have a population of something that is not an ape diverge into several different species of ape.
@@S_Winegar we come from an ancestor that wasnt ape and wasnt what came before it. Apes are the modern name for us and other non human apes.
@@kharlanhero4428 Our most common ancestor with other apes was an ape. That's an undisputed fact. There was an ancestor to that ape that wasn't an ape, yes. But our common ancestor with other apes was an ape.
@@kharlanhero4428 Example: The common ancestor between Lions Tigers and house cats was another species of cat. They all belong in the clade of cats. However the common ancestor between cats and bears is obviously not a cat, and it is not a bear. It's in an entirely different clade that encompasses many other sub clades. Our ancestor with apes was an ape, we are apes. Anything that could possibly diverge from our species will also be mammals, will also be apes, and will also be humans, but the species will be different than us. That is cladistics. You never escape the parent clades. Clades are descriptors in anthropology. The further down the chain you go, the more descriptors you have. You never get a creature that does not share the classification of a parent clade.
tl;dr
"we come from an ancestor that wasnt ape"
If you go high enough up the ancestry chain that is correct
"and wasnt what came before it"
False. It was what came before it. It just had more features that further described it
What if the wind tribe are just people who didn’t want to leave the sky’s in skyward sword?
Or they were here before the humans Hylia send in the skies, going there by their own merit.
Groose is red haired ... so maybe he is one without knowing it ....
Interesting :D
I prefer to think that they were people who disliked the surface so much they figured out how to get back up to Skyloft.
@@itbevee How would they get through the cloud barrier?
@@Seajack64 Beacons from springs??
Alternate theory: the people that stayed back in Skyloft became later on the wind tribe.
Over the years, the wind tribe starts to become more bird like, eventually evolving into the Rito. Afterall, the windwaker rito need a dragon scale to actually grow wings.
We never see any Rito in the other timelines because the wind tribe just stayed in skyloft or the sky temple.
Maybe in windwaker the zora just went missing due to the abundance of water, and the rito became more their spiritual successors as sages, instead evolving from fish to bird.
fluwe logging I’ve always thought that the Zora were still around in WW. Because why would they not be? They’re an aquatic tribe. It makes so much more sense to me that Rito come from the Loftwings.
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words lol
@@creepykato Do they ever live in salt water in another game?
jeanschyso in Majoras Mask they were located in Great Bay which seems to me to be salt water so it’s plausible that they were still around.
I like this idea 😊
The official explanation is that the waters of the Great Sea were unnatural and magical, and what changed the Zora into the Rito in that setting.
Can I just say: I love Breath of the Wild’s art style so much!!
Yasssss!
Nice profile pic.
I think BotW's Zelda may be my favorite design. Especially in her ceremonial dress.
Yes, yes you can say that.
It's full of amazingness
I'm glad that someone is *finally* making a video on this
Yassss haha!
@@HyruleGamer I have a different theory about the Rito. gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189707-the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/74882819 and www.universozelda.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/MuralOrni.jpg . and look at the breastplate on Ganondorfs being sealed in the Twilight Realm So the Rito was around with the Zoras
Here's an idea for why there's not even a trace of a bird-like tribe in many of the other games: They live in places outside Hyrule like the Watarara from the Ocarina of Time manga.
This is like asking "why do monkeys and humans exist at the same" that's just how evolution works
THATS WHAT I SAID
But nintendo also stated previously that rito and zora couldn't survive at the same time, and it is stated in game that the zora evolved into the rito to survive. So the fact that they exist at the same time in BOTW is... questionable.
MistaOppritunity From what I understand, Zora evolved into Rito during Wind Waker because they couldn’t survive the flooding, which I personally believe is what Nintendo meant by not being able to exist simultaneously, not necessarily saying that both races cannot exist together but rather that they could not exist without the Zora evolving into Rito. Based on the fact that they earn their wings at a certain age by retrieving a dragon scale from Valoo, I think it’s quite possible that they didn’t evolve naturally at all. It’s possible that when the flood occurred and they fled to Dragon Roost, Valoo took it upon themself to protect the Zora by giving them the dragon scales and thus the power of flight. Assuming that theory could be true, it’s very possible that after eventually when a new land was discovered some of the Rito decided to return to their old ways, ditching the dragon scales in favor of the water dragon scales and through this returned to the water and became Zora once again. I believe Commonwealth Realm has a video on a similar Zora evolution theory, it may be worth watching!
I'm Mr Anonymous it does make sense i mean I don’t think we evolved from specifically chimpanzees but yeah something similar to it I mean we’re already apes but still we’re so much different to every other one because we are evolved I bet when a chimp evolves it won’t be like us but something probably like us same with a gorilla but probably only stronger it’s crazy how evolution works
@@featgoose972 Homo sapien sapiens(that's us) are literally a species of ape. We evolved from apes, and we didn't evolve into something other than an ape. We still have no tail, the same facial structure, the same hands and the same legs.
How I see it, it can be that the Loftwings splitted up into 2 groups: the Oocca from Twilight princess, and the Rito in Breath of the Wild. The Loftwings could've splitted into those 2 groups when some went back to the sky, while some stayed at the surface.
EDIT: I was just thinking, if this evolution theory is true, what if Revali is one of the descendants of Link's Loftwings? Or could Teba be a descendant, or both?
I always kinda figured the wind tribe gradually morphed into the oocca, considering TP's City in the Sky is very wind-based
z nerd that could be another possibility for the Ooccas
Mind blown
Very interesting :D
I always felt that the Zoras had split off from each other with one side staying as a different kind of Zora, and the other group turned into the Rito in WW. That could explain why they are in the same place in the timeline.
Ok so hear me out:
The fact that Ritos are descendants of the Zoras is a misconception.
When Ritos were introduced in Wind Waker, they were already living at the same time as the zoras, the later having been wiped out by Ganon recently before you arrive to Greatfish Island (literally what Quill/KoRL tell you)
Upon arrival at Greatfish Island KoRL says:
"...We are too late.
I knew we had precious little time, but I
never suspected how little...
A great water spirit named Jabun once lived
here, but no sign of him remains... "
Emphasis on the "little time" not "eons long enough for evolution to take place"
Also, when Aonuma mentioned in an interview that "Ritos are the evolution of the Zoras" it was meant from an artistic/char design/gameplay point of view, not a lore perspective. The meaning has been made more ambiguous in the translation to english leading to the misconception.
I don't get why people are so attached to this evolution idea. It has never been a thing and will never be one.
👍👍
@alugwin Nah, there could be implicit evolution in Zelda lore, but the Zora -> Rito thing has always been misunderstood after Aonuma's interview. Both species are contemporary of the other and not ancestor and descendant.
It's confirmed ingame that the Rito descended from Zoras. Laruto, the Zora sage of the Earth Temple, tells Link "You must find the one who carries on my bloodline..." while referring to Medli. So Medli, a Rito, is a descendant of Laruto, a Zora, meaning Rito in general are probably descended from Zoras
And as for Greatfish Island, the text only talks about Jabun, not mentioning zoras or if he has any relation to them. There could be zoras surviving somewhere that didn't become Rito, but there's nothing that says they were on Greatfish.
@@pikmin937 Absolutely right.
All humans originally had dark skin when they were in Africa. When some migrated to cloudy areas they lost pigmentation and hair grew straight for cover from the cold. These humans now exist, but so do humans with darker skin and tight coiley hair. Perhaps this is what happened with the Zoras and Ritos. They both stem from the same origin and live simultaneously based on climate. In anthropology we refer to this as clines.
I'm pretty sure at one point there were Oceanic and River Zora. Both of which hated the other. After the Great Flood maybe the River Zora evolved into Rito for survival. Seeing as the water was now all salt water.
Humans first came from the Middle East but good explanation though!
@@kanyebear2358 that's not true.... Take an anthropology class.
@@terenarosa4790 how about explaining why he's wrong instead of being a piece of crap next time honey. Don't bring negativity to a comment where the commenter is being polite and informative. Grow up, you sound like a child.
Honestly as interesting a theory as this one is, it seems more likely that Zoras from another Country or place like the "Great Bay" migrated or fleed to Hyrule, unchanged by the circumstances of an immense flood.
As for the Rito an inevitable evolution of Zoras in the occurrence of a great flood elsewhere could be the cause through migration or other outside circumstances hense fourth bringing both Species to be found in Hyrule eventually in every timeline.
Interesting indeed :D
Like it could work since hyrule zora are arguably fresh water creatures, whereas Termina zora are obviously salt water creatures
Yeah there's nothing to say that one population of Zora couldn't evolve to the Rito while other populations of Zora stay similar enough to their ancestors to still be called Zora. Like, that's how things often happen IRL.
If you think about Zeltik's theory on how BoTW and it's sequel take place in the child timeline, you could make a theory that some of the loftwings stayed in the sky and became the Uca and some of them became the Rito, just in time to show up before BoTW takes place
Interesting, I may need to go watch that video! :D
Sorry, my bad, the theory is made by Croton, not Zeltik
It's also possible that the timelines converged, leaving both. It could also mean that the bird things never appeared in other timelines because they couldn't be reached outside of tp
Loftwings becoming Uca is.....just no.
They’re tiny egg head chickens.
Skyloft: Returns to the ground
Loft wings: BRB gotta go evolve into bird people
*World Floods*
Zora: OH SHIT WE GOTTA EVOLVE INTO BIRDS INSTEAD OF ADAPTING TO SALT WATER.
Yes, because growing wings is obviously more easier then trying to like salt.
Why does Zora evolving into Rito mean *all* Zora did? I always figured *some* did, like in WW, I figured there were still Zora somewhere in the world, just the ones who stayed on that island evolved (which is pretty accurate towards real world closed of species). I mean, are you telling me the downfall timeline swamp thing Zora evolved *back* into the dainty lil fishfolk we see in BotW? I'm not saying the Loftwing-Rito connection is impossible, just saying evolution isn't mutually exclusive
The Sea Zora of Labrynna are the same as the Zora in Ocarina of Time and they follow Jabu Jabu too... Meaning, they might be the same Zora emigrating from Hyrule.
When I was growing up playing Zelda, I used to wonder if there were some sort of continuity or if Nintendo doesn't care...they just wanna make great games
It's like how the Simpsons is almost as old as the Zelda series & it's contradicted itself several times over the years
True true
Also the real question is why would the Zora have to turn into the Rito to survive the flood?...Zora are fish people!!!
Also I felt it was that the gods turned the Zora into the Rito bcuz the gods sent the flood...but then again the Deku tree mentions that the Koroks actually developed from the Kokiri
& one last thing, I love Wind Waker. It was my 1st console Zelda game. But I was surprised by the lack of diversity in tribes. You don't really see Gorons. There are no Sheikah & the only Gerudo you see is Ganondorf. One thing I love about BotW is how it's the most diverse game & really develops the Gerudo & Sheikah tribes. & now we'll be seeing the Zonai
Having both Zora and Rito at the same time isn't continuity breaking. This is very possible in the theory of Evolution.
@@krishnamckay3247 As for why the Zora turned into Rito to survive the Great Flood, yes they are fish people but at the same time flood waters aren't very friendly to supporting life and by the time it became the Great Sea, they may have already evolved.
There's also the fact that the great sea contains salt water which these Zora may not have been able to survive in, after all the Zora from Ocarina of Time were only seen in fresh water.
And then there is also the fact that the Great Sea was very dangerous with it's assortment of giant and powerful monsters.
My whole take on the Rito and Zora being together was that at some point in the the other timeline that a group of Zora split from the main group and underwent similar experience that the adult timeline went through and became Rito, enough time have passed for it to be possible.
I'm really glad that you dedicated an entire video to this. More people should be talking about this theory, because it makes so much sense. Personally, I've believed that the BotW Rito are the descendants of the Loftwings ever since it was first revealed that the Rito and Zora would both appear in the same game. I think that the reason the Rito in Breath of the Wild and the Rito in Wind Waker are both called the "Rito" is because the word "rito" might mean "bird" in some form of the Hylian language.
I still like my theory where a group of Zora's mated with Loftwings.
Well then...
Thats just a theory a COOL theory
Oooooooooh myyyyyyyy....
........y’all got issues
@@mclaire9447 Why? It makes sense, as officially Nintendo said the Zora evolved into the Rito. So it makes sense that an offspring between a Zora and Rito counts as evolution. Also look at the Rito's in BOTW they have various colored feathers like the loftwings. Yes the Zoras are also colorful in BOTW but not much variety in color like the Loftwings and Rito's.
Also it doesn't make sense to why Zoras would develop wings for flying when they originally can walk on land before the flood in Wind Waker, It would make more sense if they tried to adapt to living in salt water than developing wings. And even if they did grow wings how did they developed chicken legs, a beak, and full body feathers. Not all flying animals need feathers to fly like bats and butterflies.
I really like this idea.
I always assumed the Rito from BOTW evolved from the fresh water Zora, that we've known of in previous games.
The Zora found in BOTW are, likely, the salt water, more of a kin to Majora's Mask type of Zora.
If they were salt water they wouldn't be able to swim in rivers and lakes
My most favorite theory imo is that in Breath of the Wild, all timelines merged into one. An indication for that is the game Hyrule Warriors because in that game the three split timelines after the the Ocarina of Time event (Defeat of the Hero Timeline, Child Timeline and Adult Timeline) merged into one timeline. Link in Hyrule Warriors had a blue scarf which kind of resembled the champion's tunic from Breath of the Wild so it could be an indication that Breath of the Wild happens thousands of years after the Hyrule Warriors event. And because the timelines merged into one timeline the Zora and the Rito exist in the same universe
Good theory, but all the timelines went back to their own timelines at the end of the game.
@@They_are_Arthur Did they? I didn't know about this but even if, it could've created two different timelines again in which the merged timelines split and in the other timeline, the timelines are still merged. In the law of quantum phisics, this is quite possible
@@crackpapa_ That seems plausible. That's a good conclusion to your theory.
@@They_are_Arthur thx :)
Good theory, but HW is confirmed non canon and takes place in an entirely separate universe
I remember you discussing this idea during a stream! Glad to see the final product! :D
AND HOLY CRAP! Did NOT see that shout out coming!!!
Couple of points on this overall theory. First the idea on your previous video about Loftwings turning into the Occa could be very true still, as their home would very much be the remains of Skyloft. Now expanding on the first point you had a theory that the wind tribe of minish cap could have been an evolutionary point for the Loftwings as well but that would be extremely unlikely from a lore stand point, and more likely the source of the "human" features of the Occa as a hybrid race between Loftwings and Hylians. Second Zora and Rito could very likely exist alongside each other during Wind Waker, as there are two types of Zora, River Zora and Ocean Zora. While the evolutionary model doesn't make as much sense the Ocean Zora could have turned into the Fishmen of Wind Waker while River Zora turned into Rito. Third Point point ties back into the first Occa were quasi-humanoids in a chicken version of a mermaid, and thus could have been early stages of the transition for pure bird, of the Loftwings to the humanoid Rito, for the majority of possible Rito out there while some even if we never see them could be more "human" in features as decedents of the Wind Waker Rito among that side of the timeline split. Though this all assumes BotW is just an inevitable conclusion of the timelines to that chronological point in history making it so BotW has three separate worlds for the timeline split, instead of the stable cascade of the three timelines to merge back together.
Hyrule Gamer: Fast forward to the next game, the Minish Cap, where we can find out a mysterious secret.
*ad plays*
Perfect timing.
Lol
Indeed, I love when an ad plays after, not during, a sentence. :D
I would like make two points, both from Majora's Mask.
#1- The Zora have underwater cities in the ocean already and they have gills so they could live there indefinitely.
#2- I always fought that The Rito where the unnamed fifth race from Majora's Mask, there are several statues of Men with bird's faces, mind you they were in a ruined state so.
I feel like that there were once *two* Zora tribes and one of them was forced to evolve.
Another thing that sorta supports this is the owl in ocarina of time, the loftwings might have started their evolution but been stunted or delayed by the timeline split ending with the eventual Rito tribe in breath of the wild if you think about it the owl can speak is a large bird an watched over link through his journey as if send by the goddess Hylia.. it might be a stretch but there is a smidge of a connection I feel.
For adult timeline, after the flood receded, i wanna believe some Zorito as i call them, went back to the safer waters and de-volved back into original form, while others stayed among the skies and evolved farther bird features
Ooh that’s a cool idea
Ok I'm sorry but when I saw the word "Zorito" I just thought of doritos and Zorito dorito ok I'm done
You the Doritos and the Zoronions and, you get the point
Watching after TOTK, I think we could be seeing one of the DLC delving deeper into what it means for Zelda to be the sage of time. In other continuities, other Zeldas had training. Usually by Impa. Mineru makes a point to say sages still have to develop their power. Zelda's path and growth in this incarnation is perhaps healing the timelines of possible damage. She wouldn't know about the original split, but she does know about her own impact.
The memories do seem to hint that Queen Sonia had been giving her some training with time powers. Starting with her surprised by Sonia's nonchalant use of rewind on the teacup fastforward to Zelda & Sonia confronting the imposter together. We don't really get anything further expanding. The other sages regard her as the Sage of Time, and that was her role in the imprisoning war. But what exactly did that entail? Now that Impa has officially retired as chief of Kakariko, is this when she takes up a role as an advisor?
Another thing to take into account when comparing the Rito from Botw and from ww is that in botw each of their large hand feathers acts as a finger, meaning that bones go through them which distinguish them from actual birds. Since the loftwings from skyward sword do not have this feather-finger thing, I believe that the Rito from Botw are a kind of human-bird crossbreed. This has evolutionary similarity to real life, as ancient homo erectus tribes which came into contact with homo sapien tribes were still compatible for reproduction, thus accounting for homo erectus DNA in some ethnicities today. While birds are very different from humans, there is the possibility that it wasn't the loftwings which crossbred with the Hylians, rather the wind tribe.
7:07 There is a Rito-like creature in the downfall timeline, and Fokka Knights of the Great Palace in Zelda 2.
I expect that you're correct that the Loftwings evolved into the Rito of Breath of the Wild (they could have potentially even interbred with the Rito from Wind Waker). However, I've always thought that not every person in Skyloft would have necessarily moved to the surface; I expect that those who stayed above became the Wind Tribe (or some who came to the surface returned to the sky to become them), and those in the clouds eventually became the Oocco
My personal headcanon for the timeline, is that the Calamity that takes place 10,000 years before breath of the wild and which the sheikah had to build the Divine Beast , was caused by demise trying to avoid his ultimate defeat by pulling all 3 versions of himself at the point of their defeats in the different timelines. Back together as one. Making him whole oh, and granting him the powers and abilities of the three various timeline gannon's. However doing so also forced the timelines themselves to merge into one, causing a great calamity when locations people and items from all three merged into one reality. This explains why we have lynels from the hero's downfall alongside the Rito from Wind Waker. And why locations from all three timelines are all over the place but scattered and out of place in breath of the Wild. Forcing the three goddesses to intervene to keep the world from being completely destroyed by merging it the rest of the way into what we see today. That's just my personal headcanon but it would make sense considering how things from different timeline splits all seem to be in the same game. Plus it explains why the Calamity was so disastrous and why they had to go over the top with gigantic Guardian beasts and an army of Guardian robots in order to fight Ganon, he was just that powerful that it required that much of an effort after merging with all three of his selves.
It's magic!
HG I LOVE YOU
M a g i c!
Thanks!
A WIZARD DID IT.
Let me know if you got that reference.
PixelKnight from the Simpsons
@@martymcflyy6775 close.
In the Latin Spanish version of BotW, when Link remembers Revali and the scene is played, instead of just saying "I forgot you have no way of making it to that Divine Beast on your own" he adds "Want a ride?" Obviously with the sarcastic tune in his voice, but that could be another reference of the Rito's past in Hyrule's history...
I find a small issue with the theory about them not being able to evolve from the Zora in the child Wind Waker timeline. The Zora evolved into 2 forms, & is repeatedly supported in the game when sailing. You have the Rito evolution, but then there's the fish that can give you hints if you throw bait into the water near one jumping close to one of the islands.
YES! In my version of this theory, there are two groups of humans after Skyward Sword: those who settled on the surface and founded Hyrule, and those who returned to (or stayed in) the sky. The latter become the wind tribe, and then eventually the Oocca. In the adult timeline the Zora evolve into Rito with Valoo’s help, but after the ocean drains out leading to BotW they don’t need their wings, and stop getting scales from Valoo, and evolve back into Zora. Meanwhile the loftwings become the more bird like Rito. In any other timeline it’s the same but without the Zora evolving.
Interesting thoughts :D
The wind tribe: upgrade
The air nomads: pure perfection 👌
Ok, since we got the first glimpses of the Rito in BotW, I thought that they may be descendants of the Loftwings and not the Zora. I wrote a huge essay about it over on my Amino page.
Also, there ARE other Ritos in the Zelda timeline. The owl in Links Awakening has to be a Rito and kaepora gaebora (rauru) also takes the form of a Rito - he even has a lot of similarities to the Rito elder in BotW. I believe that when Valoo gave the Zora wings to survive the flood, he named them Rito because they became similar to an already existing tribe and when the floods receded, valoo stoped their forced evolution and they reverted back. Just because you don’t see a tribe EVERYWHERE in the game doesn’t mean they don’t exist in the world. Take the sheikah for example. Every past Zelda game said that Impa was the last Sheikah but lo and behold, there she was in the next game claiming to be the last. But they’re the shadow clan. They WANT you to think they don’t exist so they can work in the shadows without anyone noticing them. You see the sheikah eye on various individuals in TP but they don’t claim to be sheikah but we can suspect that they are. They only came out in the open in BotW and stoped being a shadow clan because the royal family and hyrule 10,000 years ago became afraid of their power and magic which also caused the sheikah/ yiga split.
So yes, I believe the Rito descend from the loftwings but have definitely, always existed in the Zelda world and have no genealogical link to the Zora at all.
Yes thanks for this video, i got very confused why these two the Rito and the Zora in the same game.
Thanks a lot! :D
Great video, but just a quick correction: there are carvings of loftwings on the architecture found in Botw; they can be found on the walls of the Forgotten Temple and, at least I'm pretty sure, in the Lanaryu Promenade as well.
Well... the Zora and Rito existed at the same time in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, some Zora just chose not to be evolved.
And they are Feral, working with the Demons. They are called Gyomazon in Japanese... "Fish Warriors"
@@nonoctoro4933 Yeah, a change of some kind was inevitable, my personal theory is WW Rito are actually a cross breeding of Zora and Gerudo (possibly also Shiekah) in a Shiekah plan to preserve the races as the flood began. That combination of genetics combined with Valoo would allow their descendents to fly in the flooded world. The Rito are far from Zora's domain and lake hylia, death mountain, with it's warmth and arid terrain, would be the next best place for someone with Gerudo blood to go. Maybe the Zora who refused got all buff from always swimming, hunting for fish to eat and fighting sharks instead of being amphibious and living within a defined space as a society
@@AdamTheGameBoy The Rito being human-Zora hybrids is also one of my theories. They kinda look human ... they have really human like hair and skin. The features only appears when they obtain the scale from Valoo.
Valoo ... which would scare off the Goron. Thus forcing Jabun to send his servants to Valoo in order to protect the pearl and also since he doesn't really need them unlike Jabu Jabu that was unable to feed himself stuck in a pool.
As seen by Ruto and Mipha, there is little to no taboo as for the alliance between a human and a Zora, this would explain things like the Post Guy.
Then Valoo gave them Bird features as the Sky Spirit, they need his scales to grow wings.
Breath of the Wild references Skyward Sword with the ballon girl Shamae at the Woodland Stable, who 'dreams of an island in the sky where people used to ride around on big birds' and says that these stories have faded into legend over time.
Finally this video was very needed
Haha glad to hear :D
I feel like its worth mentioning that the loftwings are referenced on the lanayru promenade on the walls and/or pillars of the ruins...
Nintendo says that botw takes place after all timelines! Does anyone remember a couple years back Nintendo stating that botw has nothing to do with Wind Waker?
And when exploring the game, it's clear like clean water that this has nothing to do with TWW.
They never said it was merging the Timelines, they refused to tell us where it was and gave us the statement that it's at the very end and that players are expected to imagine which one it is because it's more fun that way.
Yup, they said it's up to our imagination. As I said in the video "more or less" and "likely" not actually confirmed 100% :D
Personally Wind Waker is my least favorite Zelda game! but I honestly remember Nintendo saying that cuz after I heard it I was literally jumping with joy!
I honestly hate hearing that breath of the wild take place after Wind Waker! I don't think there is any way it can! Some examples are because the landmarks wouldn't exist after Wind Waker the master sword would still be under the ocean! And I'm not sure if this actually happened but didn't the Gerudo go extinct in the wind waker era?
@@waterwitch6426 Wow, even less liked than Phantom Hourglass or Zelda II.....?
Zora existing with Rito makes sense if you take into consideration that multiple evolutions of the Zora (river Zora, Zelda II Zora) have existed in the same game before. But they could be the loftwings.
I was gonna say what about the bird tribes in the ocarina of time manga but the manga isn’t canon TwT also they’re not called ritos in the manga they’re a different race, which is interesting and would love to see in a Zelda game.
Oh true :D
The Watarara Tribe was a really cool added concept, and they're probably OoT's non-canon version of the Rito Tribe, just so the two authors, Akira Himekawa, could have fun adding their own species and mini story to Ocarina of Time.
River Luciana !!! Thank you, that’s what they’re called :) I wish the Zelda manga would be canon but if it was it could be confusing...I think? But it would give a lot of backstory to some characters or enemies. For example in OOT the game you fight volvagia the dragon in death mountain as a boss for the fire temple. To people that just play the game they see him ass a regular boss, but to people who read the manga they see him as Link’s old pet/friend that he had to put down TwT (I’m not crying you’re crying) it would’ve been cool if the put that in the game.
@@OGZelda626 You're right, it would make it hella confusing QwQ -(not that Zelda lore isn't ALREADY a mishmashed mess of confusion).-
I LOVE the Akira Himekawa Zelda manga series, I've had the box set for many years and have re-read it a ton, especially OoT. I love how they expand upon the games and add their own little amounts of lore and backstory and give Link an actual voice and relatable character.
Omg yeah I relate... baby Volvagia getting corrupted like Naydra and killed by Link who didn't want to kill him was such an emotional moment, and gave STRONG motivation for the Hero of Time to get revenge on Ganondorf.
btw, I bought all the Twilight Princess manga by them and I'm reading through it so no spoilers that aren't already from the game.
@@houseofskulltulips The Watarara Tribe is what gave Nintendo ideas for the Rito Tribe in Wind Waker. I heard that somewhere but can't remember where
The Timeline that explains both creatures exist together is games in the Downfall Timeline: Adventures of Link and Oracles of Ages. LoZ 2 had bird-like warriors that appeared as enemies and Orcale of Ages had the sea/OOT Zoras.
Agreed and just think the river Zora reclaiming Zoras domain and evolving into the bizarre Zora we see in BOTW. We know queen Oren brought the river Zora back to peace so why wouldn't they seek to reclaim their ancestral birthright in zoras domain? We already know the sea zora left so, why not? Also the King making sure to write down all their history just reinforces to me how the river zora would want to remember their origins as regular zora and preserve it for history and help them remind themselves where they came from.
The timeline literally ruins everything
sure does. It's pointless
In BOTW there is a child who talks about people who lived above the clouds and rode on giant birds. They're at one of the stables, but i forget which one.
So there are the loftwing rito, or the "lorito" and the zora rito, or "zorrito"... *laughs in Spanish*
Crazy Idea here. What about the Rito being the evolved Zora from the adult time line and the Zora being the River Zora from the other time lines having found peace and devolving back to their Zelda:OoT forms.
Finally! An I've had this question for so long.
Nice!
Super happy you brought Up the wind tribe from the minish cap I feel like a lot of details and lore from minish cap just get thrown off the cliff a lot. like how the legendary sword from it just disappeared. In BOTW though I always though the zora looked a bit like the sharks from Wind waker.
Didn’t some of the Zora “mutate” into the Rito in Wind Waker?
Edit: I didn’t watch the video yet
the rito in the wind waker evolved, they didn't mutate. They also use magic to implement the bird changes like beaks and wings.
Oh okay
I had not even considered Minish Cap’s Wind Tribe’s relation to the Loftwings and Skyloft! Great point! It’s easy to miss these potential connections since the games are so spread out. Very astute!
Yup! The series has so much lore, information and little details that it's so easy to miss some stuff! Thanks a lot for checking out the video! :D
It’s totally possible that some zora went on land and evolved to rito and some Zora stayed in the water. I mean, chimps and humans live side by side, despite us evolving from them.
It's possible but implied in the lore that all the Zora vanished of sorts in the Adult Timeline split :D
@@HyruleGamer The Zora in the adult timeline all became Rito otherwise we would have had a source that said some Zora fled and some zora stayed which is exactly what happened in the fallen hero timeline.
Well technically we didn't evolve from chimps, a different animal evolved into both humans and chimps when their population was divided. Still the same basic idea, one creature splitting into two.
Maybe they just lived in the sea and we didn't notice them?
my theory is that after leaving skyloft because they could no longer stay because the goddesses forced them to the surface so they didn't have to make islands float anymore some of the hylians wishing to return to the sky became the wind tribe and latter the occa and that the loftwings evolved into the rito found in breath of the wild
Personally I always thought that when the three timelines re-merged, elements of all three timelines merged together, which would explain why they both exist in the same era (timey-wimey stuff). It would also explain why elements of all three timelines are remembered and referenced in BotW, if the timelines slowly merged in a way that all the sentinient beings weren’t aware. Which would potentially be why no one realises some past events that are referenced conflict with each other.
Nonsense, since timelines can't merge into one again. Each of the timelines are the result of different events.
Besides, the three different timelines can't exist at the same time. It's either the childhood and adult timeline *OR* the downfall timeline, since Link can't defeat Ganon in OoT and loose to him at the same time.
Why couldn’t timelines remerge? Potentially divine intervention to fix a shattered timeline?
PhazonKing also I think most would agree the timelines do exist as the same time, hence the reason of the timeline split. The adult and the child timeline almost certainly exist in parallel, as it occurred when link went back in time and one existed without him and the other is the time he went back to.
@@PhazonKing All these quantum mechanic experts out here. If they can split, they can merge. A split is a theory, one of many that has to do with what are essentially different dimensions. They exist simultaneously just like all iterations of reality. Time is not a straight line, Zelda's timeline is a bullshit fan addition, and we're talking about concepts that may or may not exist in the first place.
Okay, so in Skyward Sword, there's more than one sky island, but we only really see the Skyloft capitol descend (not even the isles attached by bridges come with it!). My theory is this: Some of the people who lived on these other islands had not been on Skyloft when it descended, and because of this, they became the Wind Tribe. The Wind Tribe, left alone and so close to the gods, may have been slowly changed into the Oocca. The Loftwings, which likely nested on different islands from the Wind Tribe/Oocca would then slowly become more and more like the Rito we know from BoTW. As for the Windwaker conundrum, try this on for size: Divergent Evolution. Some of the Zora became Rito. Some of the Zora became big chatty fish who like to stalk weird kids in magical boats. The Chatty Fish Zora returned to Zorahood. The Rito evolved into Birdier people. The Loftwings were taken back by the Goddess and transformed or simply ceased to exist because if they're brutal enough to drown the world, they're brutal enough to unmake the pretty birds.
Some Zora evolved into Rito and some didn’t, so they now live side by side, it’s kinda that simple
What we are told is that all Zora evolved into the Rito. No games explicitly state otherwise from what I could find :D
The wind waker rito definitely came from the Zora. But i'd say the BotW rito are those shown on the carving in Twilight Princess HD
@@ravenebony2267 Interesting thought :D
Thank you.
@@HyruleGamer but does it have to be explicitly stated? I mean, think about actual evolutionary science: species diverge. That's it. Just think about dogs vs wolves. No one thousands of years ago would see a chihuahua and think "that's clearly related to my wolf." I mean, species obviously evolve over time in the zelda zeldaverse already, why not just a simple explanation with real-world parallels?
Here's another very plausible and simple theory that is based in science; The Zora and Rito in Breath of the Wild simply both evolved from the Zora.
You might think it sounds silly but it really isn't.
Let's use a real life example: prehistoric human (homo erectus) evolved into modern humans (homo sapiens) and Neanderthals (homo neanderthalensis).
The homo erectus species was slightly different to us but are still referred to as having been humans just as we are referred to as humans despite being different species.
The Zora in Ocarina of Time are clearly different to the Zora in BotW in some ways so it's very plausible that the Zora from OoT simply just evolved into two different species: a new species of Zora and a new species of Rito.
It's very common for a single species to evolve into multiple new species. In fact, it's probably more common for a single species to evolve into multiple rather than a single new species.
*Cough* downfall zoras did evolve
Into Rito?
They splitted into the River/Feral and the Sea/Civilized Zoras.
@@HyruleGamer Into BOTW Zora
@@nonoctoro4933 The river Zora completely changed in appearance while as the sea zora retain the original form of the zora in as seen in OOT and TP. I made a post about this in the comments but I'll repeat myself here. The river Zora IMO evolve into the Zora from BOTW. When you see how the river zora mutated in the DF timeline and then compare that to the completely unique and unnatural BOTW zora who have multitudes of colors and fish mutations, it seems clear to me that the river zora reclaimed zora domain after Queen Oren brought them back to their civilized roots. When they re settled they likely decided on bringing back a King just like the good old days when the zora species was 1 and the same. Now unfortunately they had no idea where their brother species of the old zora were or if they were even alive but they did have knowledge passed down from back then. To make sure they would never lose that knowledge, the new King decided to etch their history in stone tablets so that they would never forget their true zora lineage.
In WW, the goddesses transformed the Zora into the Rito so they couldn't find the flooded Hyrule, and perhaps over time the Rito started reverting back into Zora again since they were only transformed to protect the lost kingdom of Hyrule. After WW there would no longer be a reason to keep the now Ritos away so eventually Ritos started birthing Zora children and then over time there were only Zoras. I like the idea of the Loftwings being the ancestors to BotW's Rito. Perhaps these Rito are also a product of the goddesses' intervention, but instead of transforming Zora into Rito, they transformed the Loftwings and sent them from wherever they went after SS and had them live in Hyrule as the new Rito.
The theory I have been waiting for. Although, what about the Ooca from Twilight Princess? They are literal chicken bodies with human heads. What would their evolution be now? Perhaps they are Rito too, since I doubt they would be of much use being as they are..
For first time I’m one of the first :3
Nice one! :D
I have always wondered about this myself and am happy you made this video. Great video my guy
How are you
Not bad myself :D
In breath of the wild there’s a little girl that asks you to make a barrel lift using octorok balloons, she references the loft wings, and the forgotten temple has carvings of the loftwings on its walls
1st
Nice one!
Considering how many hundreds of thousands of years have passed from SS to BotW, I'm even wondering if some Rito became corrupted into the birdlike wizzrobes from the Toon Link games, only for that curse to be subsumed one their civilization stabilized and the zora returned to Hyrule
Hoi
Hey!
Hello hi, new person to the Zelda franchise here, having only played BotW :) (and a lil bit of the WW remake) I'm studying biology and am finishing a course on evolution currently, so I wanted to present my own thoughts:
But first! tl;dr The idea that the Rito and Zora coexist in BotW despite one having evolved from the other isn't too farfetched in and of itself due to the rapid opening and closing of ecological niches or "roles" within Hyrule thanks to the just-as-rapidly-changing environment, especially as seen in the adult timeline.
One thing I'd also like to point out, though, is that Hyrule seems to have a verrrrrry ecologically dynamic history, with changes being made to the entire map at a time with the great flood that sets up for WW to entire landmasses moving from place to place (like the Great Plateau/Korok Forest shenanigans). Because of these changes, there would be a lot of need for evolution (and to a degree, quick evolution in response to events like the ones I listed above) from the populations living there in order to keep up with the formation of new ecological niches, new technology, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rito from WW are definitively evolved from the Zora of OoT, no? Well, assuming quick evolutionary responses are possible, let's consider how things developed: Hyrule was at least semi-normal, from a geographic standpoint, during the events of OoT, from what I've seen. If the Zora existed at that point in the timeline, they obviously had a reason to because they filled some sort of ecological niche (being amphibious...whatever purpose they served. Again, I've never played the game, so my speculation there is limited at best.) When the world was flooded pre-WW, the Zoras' niche was dissolved, since suddenly their habitat became... a lot bigger and involving a lot of other species that probably could have presented threatening competition even if we didn't see it. So, the evolution makes sense in that way: despite being "fish out of water," they would have had significantly less competition by taking a more avian, less aquatic form since most life at this point would most certainly have existed underwater. Once the flood ended and the waters receded so that life became more terrestrial again, the abundance of life in the oceans would have decreased again, going back to resembling what the environment was pre-global flood (so around the time of OoT). If that's the case, then it would also make sense for there to be a gradual return to the water for the WW Rito, since their ecological niche would have reduced competition again, allowing for a re-establishment of the Zora species building toward that which we see in BotW. So then why are there still Rito, and why would they look even more avian than in WW? Well, the skies are also a sort of ecosystem to consider, and if the Rito had the ability to fly, in addition to other abilities that would have made them even more adaptable to the environment than your average, everyday birds of Hyrule, then they would have survived well maintaining as Rito. The more avian appearance (especially with a more feathered look) could be due also to the climate they live in; Tabantha is quite close to Hebra and appears to be very temperate, meaning much colder winters. Seeing as the Zora don't appear to be migratory, having made a full-fledged settlement, they would need to adapt to the harsher temperature patterns than that of WW, seeing as water is really effective at keeping temperatures fairly constant.
Not discrediting the hypothesis put forth in the video, by any means; I have a lot less expertise in this franchise than you and others in the comments section. But I just wanted to put forth my own views/hypothesis based on the information presented and my experience dealing with evolution and my understanding of ecology. :D
I’m good
Good to hear!
Breath of the Wild being the inevitable outcome of all three timelines is very confusing... Because it references almost every timeline individually, implying that the events parallel each other. At that point, why do we even have a timeline split in the first place? The description of the rock salt implies that it was left over from the Great Sea. That means in all three timelines Hyrule gets flooded at one point or another... Gosh the Zelda timeline is a mess.
This theory is so amazing! It makes so much sense! Love it for sure
I actually was thinking about this the other night while having trouble sleeping.
What if the Zora in WW were told to go to the mountain tops by the king/goddesses to keep them alive and safe, where the goddesses intended to turn them into bird people, at least temporarily. What if the majority of them did and we're turned into humanoid bird people, and some didn't and thought that fish people would be fine in a sea, only to be turned into the fish that give link his maps as punishment for not listening? Then those rito, being more humanoid at that point, either die off, breed in with hylians and become human, or are returned to zora shape. And the map fish become either regular fish or earn their zora forms by helping ww link?
The wind tribe could be a loftwing example of the same thing. Some of them became humanoid (the wind tribe) and died out for not listening to the goddesses, and the rest became the bird people we know as rito in botw.
Or maybe the two types of rito bred together to become what we know now? after all, the rito and zora in botw DO seem to have the same physical proportions as the rito in ww don't they? long torso, long arms, tiny legs in comparison to the rest of them... they certainly seem like they came from the same base race don't they??
I like this Theory it is very possible another possible theory is what if they both originated from the same species but one is an offshoot tribe that went off and develop in their own way
In WW it was stated that the Rito need one of Valoo's scales to "evolve" wings.(literally the exact wording used) If we take that at face value, it could mean that the first few Zora to become rito, were Zoras that somehow came into contact with Valoo. But I don't believe ALL Zora evolved but rather some went into hiding just like the Gorons. The only Gorons we ever see are the merchants who came from a faraway land. Anyways if Valoos scale is that effective then it's possible it can be used on other races as well (which might explain the postmans descendant we see) Now it's true we don't see Valoo in other timelines, but to be fair we don't see the deku tree or koroks/kokiri in other timelines either. It's also possible that the Zora we see are actually from termina. Also, wind wakers Rito could just as easily evolve into their more birdlike appearance, just like how Zora changed to include more color variations and head shapes, giving them a more fish like appearance than ever before as well.
At least you admit that Botw falls at the end of all the timelines! Monster Maze and NBC will not even admit that it's the inevitable outcome of all three timelines - they still think it has to have a "Placement in one of the timelines". Ludacris. Zeltik with his circular timeline theory also would seem to point to him believing that BotW falls at the end of all 3 timelines.
(Just my own tiny sleep deprived theory, so don't read if you want to) Maybe in some land, far from hyrule, the Zora met the loftwings. And over time, through 'some' evolution, the loftwings changed into the rito that we know. And becoming something before the rito in windwaker, the Rito possibly grown as people and gone into relations in courtship with the zora. I'm getting the relation thing of zora and rito from how Medli's ancestor being a zora. And the zora possibly moved the evolution to the windwaker rito. And I'm also wanting to think that Kaepora Gaepora is possibly one of those early Rito before windwaker, being able to talk and having a relation to the hero in skyward sword and also might be a bit of a reincarnation of Kaepora, the leader/ruler of Skyloft due to the same name and bit of the same facial/feather features as a tie to way back from old Skyward to Ocarina Links. And, I know the person who made the pictures in twilight princess wanted some fun when making them, I'm guessing thats when the zora came back and the rito were wind waker styled-ish. And then the rito evoled some more and became how the rito are today.
So yeah, thats my own little theory of the rito and zora being together in botw. Again a tad sleep deprived and such here but I found this vid and wanted to make my own long winded theory on the thing
Interesting :)
@@HyruleGamer I am truly glad you think so
Skyward Sword and Loftwings are actually mentioned in botw. It’s probably just meant to be an easter egg without much canonical meaning but a kid at one of the stables, upon completing his quest of lifting some barrels with octo balloons, talks about a legend of a town in the sky and people riding giant birds.
Like so many people have said, that's not how evolution works. That said, I do think that this is the best explanation overall. The Rito evolving from the Loftwings explains the origin of the Rito in Breath of the Wild. I could even see the Loftwings splitting into two populations that evolved variably into the Rito and the Ooca. The Rito in Wind Waker are probably an offshoot of those Rito, and the Zora explanation is a local legend started by the Hylians when a population of Rito came in the scene at the same time that the Zora found their own way to survive the ocean
"Inevitable end" can mean that no matter where do the timeline splits, it will always end up with Zora and Rito. there is also the salt that, if I remember correctly, seems to come from the sea, which would mean that no matter what happened, Hyrule would end up washed away by the sea in any point of time, forcing the Zora from Hyrule to evolve into Rito over an extended period of time until the sea dried up, enough time to make the Rito, who are half-birds, turn into full fledged bird people, while Zora might exist in other places other than Hyrule, as well as the other races like Gorons and Hylians, which are prooven to exist in Spirit Tracks.
In the end, no matter when the great flood happened, since Breath of the Wild is most likely more than 10 000 years in the future, where the Zonai might have found the old relics of the now dried up kingdom and rebuilt it before the old royal family for some reason came back to take the throne (Most likely by force, if we know about the Hylian monarchy's history), it happened. That forced the Zora to turn into Rito and with time, said Rito became actual bird people instead of semi-bird people.
the loftwing stayed in the sky when the hylians went to the ground, then the loftwings continued to evolve
Cool video man!
I personally think its just that some of the Zora evolved into rito and some stayed as zora. It's like the Darwin thing with the two groups of the same species of birds that when living in separate regions, evolved differently from eachother. Also u could explain not seeing the Zora in wind waker by the fact that they could have been living somewhere underwater that you couldn't explore in game. But they say breath of the wild is probably in its own timeline anyway. IDK. But that's my theory on it! 😁
I actually never played skyward sword :( but ur loft wing theory makes a lot of sense
Also, in a manga based of Ocarina of time, it suggests the rito were alive during the hero of time's childhood due to a bonus story at the end of the manga. So if we consider any part of that cannon in any way, then it can make some more sense.
Weren’t those fish-like enemies in Hour Glass and Phantom Tracks technically an offshoot of the Ruto? The ones who jump up from the water, can shoot fire, and normally use a sword and wooden shield. Now yes, Hourglass is in a different world, but Phantom Tracks still is within the same world as Hyrule and did sport those enemies if memory serves me right.
Not sure honestly, interesting point though :D
Another great thought provoking theory! I always get excited whenever you post your Zelda theories and I always like to hear what others think when it comes to certain aspects seen in Zelda.
I know for that people have speculated the connection between the Loftwings an the Ooca, as well as the Wind Tribe shown in Minish Cap, but I never thought about there being a connection between the Wind Tribe and the BOTW Rito to be a thing.
Thanks a lot Tori!!! :D
Oh man, I just remembered something. Has anyone read the "A Link To the Past" comic published in Nintendo power however long ago? I read a PDF version of it like a decade ago. I remember being surprised at how good it was. So there were a couple deviations from the game that are of note. First of all Link didn't turn into a bunny when he tried to enter the dark world. He started turning into a feral beast, and his arm grew claws and fur like a werewolf. There was also this other character who was on the same path as Link but was always jealous and bragged all the time. Get this: He had a bird-like character design, later became a bird/human hybrid when he entered the dark world, AND his weapon was the bow which he was really skilled at.
I need to find it again to get the details, but I just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone who wants to check it out.
Me: No one mentions the Royal Crest having a Loftwing on it!
HG: *suddenly mentions it as the only thing about loftwing since*
I give you props good sir. Not only did you read my mind FROM THE PAST IN A CURRENT VIDEO, but you also mentioned that very thing that no one else did.
Cool :D