Massive Porcelain Patio Failure in London
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2021
- Massive Porcelain Patio Fail
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Takes 30 seconds on Google to find out the mix ratio for the mortar. Another 30 to find out you need to slurry the back of the slab. Even as a DIYer I would spend ages on TH-cam and other websites finding out right technique. Although on a patio this size, I couldn’t be bothered and would pay someone.
Top bloke our Johnny boy. We’d had a few snags with our porcelain patio and he was straight on the blower helping us out with his tip top knowledge and advice👍🏻👊🏻🍻 many thanks again bud much appreciated 🍻🍻
Thanks Jamie
What a fantastic fella you are giving your advice to another contractor let's hope that he gets it done
Great vid John, u showed your class by not shaming anyone, its good that the porcelain lifted clean enough to be used again once prep is all done 👍
100%
Thanks for video. Learning so much from u.thanks
So nice of you
Top man John taking your time to look at a failed job just like you took the time to speak with me about a year ago about my failed patio which I managed to fix with your great advice. Thank you Johny
Lee
Thanks Lee mate your a good un
Probably done by the same cowboy that did my porcelain patio. Whole lot is loose and grout only lasted a short time. He used the wrong type. Treated him like a best mate. 10 cups of tea a day and lunch. Gave him my lawnmower as we also had artificial grass fitted. Paid him straight away and gave him a big drink. After 30 phone calls he would not return to rectify his work. Had to wait for someone else and pay again. Cannot trust any tradesman now.
Not good
Wish we would have had professionals like you. Really helpful videos mate.
plenty of videos online and short courses about nowadays,, better off even if it costs a bit more to do it urself ,, least you you know its not gonna be a bodge
Excellent video. The fact that you didn't wish to name and shame anyone speaks volumes about your character and integrity.
Thanks Phil
You seem a genuine chap giving honest advice there, wish you lived up nr Derbyshire as you could do ours
Thank you thats very kind, We do go Nationwide
Definitely agree Jon that bed isn’t great at all... I’ve followed advice used 5:1 wet mix with added SBR and Plasticiser with every mix with every one slurryed 100% thick coverage .... in my experience I had to lift one up and it meant smashing it to micro pieces to remove just the tile ... the bed was almost impossible to dig out without taking out surrounding laid tiles so only managed to dig out 10-20 mm with a grinder before relaying ...
Goes to show how a few minor details are vital when laying porcelain
I agree
Hi mate, can I ask why you had to take the slab up if it was so well bedded down? Clearly adhered well, was the tile broken/marked I some way
Tiles are marked for direction to lay. Its possible that one got layed incorectly and was looking odd...
@@ob-of2gx Sorry for so long reply , I marked it with a angle grinder trying to be a perfectionist but went the other way on me.... So took me hours to fix this mistake.
Nice 1 going Johnny you get it sorted for them 😎
I am no sure at this moment mate because of time but I will try.
@@GreentopLandscapes
Least you will put them in right direction tho mate very good of taking time out to go and see it top man. 👍🏻
@@lmilne4859 cheers bud
Hello I just had a question I am a bricky that does patios and stuff and this is the 1st time I've seen this type of patio.. I was taught to pour a concrete pad when using mortar. There is a process we call the magic mix and it's just a tiny bit of Portland cement mixed with stone dust.. Is that comparable to what you're using?
Spot in Chris mate spot on
Nice one Johnny, which mortar do you recommend? Also do you recommend Plasticising Admix? Thank you!
Thanks Andrew mate and yes you can use admix
Such a shame. Though you mention towards the end that water would get into that laying bed, freeze thaw cycle would then break it down and fail it further... but isn't that why we use weak grit sand mixes under slabs these days (5-6:1 etc), in order to let the water from above (through permeable grouts) through? I know it wouldn't be a permeable grout in this instance, but my point is that water needs to pass through the laying course and soak down into the subase does it not? Regards, Llyr 🏴
Hi Buddy, thanks for your response it’s welcomed as it promotes healthy dialogue. In this case there was simply not enough cement and of course this is porcelain and you don’t really want a permeable bed unless your using a permeable grout.
So I’ve just laid some porcelain tiles outdoor. I’ve but type 1 sub base, whacked it to death, used a 4,1,1 mix with plasticiser, and pro flo slurry on each tile. It’s all from you tube. Do you think it should survive? I’m yet to grout, but will be using the pro flo rapid set grout.
Sounds like you have done a good job
So no primer and wasnt 5 to 1 sharp sand to cement?
Would love to work for this company, really good videos informative, honest and loads of experience,
Best of luck!
Hello mate, quick question if you don't mind. We have started laying our patio, we are using a 4:1 mix without and mortar admix. Seems fine so far. We have been able to walk on it and the mix underneath the tiles have gone rock hard. Is there any benefit to using mortar admix in our mixture?
Just depends on what cement your using, Blue circle will tell you that you dont need additives in their cement.
Terrible job but will it be possible to post the size of the area and what the client was charged?
Top man for doing this again .i feel for these people really do But people have to throughly research there contractor of choice think unfortunately here thats the lesson here.
Good luck to them in sorting it out and with your help it will be completed 💯 no doubt.
Justin brickright 👍
Well said
If they had just jointed in and done a normal strong 1 to 4 sharp sand mix even without the slurry it would of been ok. While slurry is a something that you should use on more expensive slabs like porcelain, limestone, etc its nice to give the customer a choice. In the area where I live customers will often want a cheaper choice and if we can save a few hundred on certain items while letting the customer know what exactly what they are and aren't paying for but this is just shocking.
Do you poor the slurry first and let it dry than tile over it with thin set or you use the slurry directly to bond with primed tiles ? What is slurry exactly ? It’s a concrete mix correct ?
@@Entrepreneurusa slurry is a primer, you can buy it in a tub or use exterior pva and cement, or sbr and cement, mix it till its a thicker than water consistency and paint it on the back of a slab and it bonds much better, again for porcelain in mandatory to use but you can get away with natural stone if you want to save money but I would recommend use it. If you can buy primering slurry in a pot I would use sbr and cement mix with a fair amount of plasticizer, I find it get its a little longer life before going of it a bucket.
No excuse, I watched a few TH-cam videos before doing my own patio and looked up ratios of mix and slurry etc. from a few different sources.
Heart of a lion Johnny👍
I wish Mark mate but thank you
Hi Johny
I watched your channel and it has given me lots of Information
I am trying to build a porcelain patio and Put MOT Type 1 which I have already ordered
I have seen your Videos where you advise to do the Base with Lean Mix
I would appreciate if you can help me with the information on how much Mot and what sort of Lean mix on top
Also can I put 70mm of Mot type 1 and 30mm of concrete
I would really appreciate your help
Thanks
Habib
Happy to talk Habib
Hi
Is it a good idea to put porcelain on a concrete platform in the back garden in Uk ? We had built a concrete patio platform instead of decking so wish to tile it up
Any suggestions much appreciated 🙏
yes you can my freind
Johnny boy what do you reckon the ratio of the sand to cement was on that and what should it be?
Well I would go 5 sharp 1 cement and just moist so it forms a ball
@@GreentopLandscapes Mate, you're a legend, You've answered every question I've asked you, it's so much appreciated! Cheers!
The case is the didn’t put much cement maybe it was too dry
Hi John. Does it matter what pattern you lay porcelain slabs? I’ve been told if you lay them all square it makes them weak and could end up coming loose? Thanks
Any how Danny thats simply not true mate
Can you screed a large area to the levels required then wait till cured then slurry callabrated tiles and lay?
I wouldn’t I use dry screed some times but lay straight away with slurry pasted on the back and wet up the slabs with a few buckets of water after every day so you no they’re all going off !
London isn't it? Nothing is like going through the windscreen stone cold sober.
Positive comment😊
My installed used SBR neat on my porcelain 120cm x 60cm slabs. I’ve noticed the grout has cracked in a few places and there is movement, if I tried I could definitely lift them up, could this be the case for all of the slabs because he uses just SBR without cement?
its a possibility, I just feel SBR is not enough, whats your thoughts?
@@GreentopLandscapes SBR states on the bottle that it should be mixed, he says that’s all he’s ever used and never had a call back until me. He’s been back and assured me if I get anymore problems he will put it right
Hi Jordan. I'm in exactly the same position although I was paying for help and advice from a friend who is supposed to be experienced.
He assured me that brushing a neat SBR on the back of porcelain tile would be fine. I've been worried since we started but your comment has made me really worried!
How is your issue now? Have you lifted any slabs?
Thanks, Adam
@@snairoha couple are loose but currently causing no issue, they will only move if I try to move them. Walking on them causes no rocking but I think this is most probably due to the weight of the slabs. I fear next winter when we have a frost.
@@jordanfield5975 thanks for your reply. I'm going to give it a few days and then have a look and see if any are rocking or moving. I'm also fearful that it might look all solid and nice at the moment but for this amount of money it should be standing the test of time! 😭
If the sub base was a little harer than this, could you now use an external adhesive and just treat it like you were tiling inside a house? Am faced with a similar situation altho i have membrane down then crushed stone than a concrete base similar to this
What some great words and advice cheers mate
I’m in this situation now did the external adhesive work ?
@@lewiswalker6646 yeah mate worked well treat it as if you are now tiling inside. Mapei have a decent range of adhesives
@@beary0418 sound mate I’ll look in to that adhesive
Used the Mapei stone and porcelain adhesive yesterday on some Indian stone and there rock solid now 👍
Hi great vid I'm pretty new to porcelain slabs . When I'm laying stone slabs I normally use a 3-2-1 mix 3 sharp 2 soft and 1 cement and a bit of pva in the water. Is this also suitable for porcelain? Many thanks
Hi Alex, thanks for watching mate, dont use PVA as it emulsifies meaning it breaks down and maybe one less on the soft but i go 5-1 all sharp but I use a semi dry now generally. thanks for watching
In USA they want you to do a concrete base first than tile over it with thin set . The only issue is it will cost you a fortune just to do the slab base more than the whole job . I called In for a estimate they want $3,000 just for the base only 16x12feet .
Better job thought
I think that 3000 dollar price is fine for 15 Square metres. I've seen contractors in california laying porcelain on sand and jointing with polymeric dry sand 🤦♂️🤦♂️, couldn't believe it.
@@godfrey369 No that’s ridiculous, that’s a 4 to 5 hours job with 2 workers , 3k is ridiculous
@@godfrey369 I did it by my self in 2 days and cost only $400 more less even got free concrete online lol
Good afternoon
Can you lay porcelain outdoors on a concrete base ?
Yes Sir
Yes mate
could you in practice just lay these how you lay monoblock paving? or would this be impossible
Just depends on paving specifications Micheal
Great video mate enjoyed the trip and what camera skills 😂
Lmao
What’s the ideal ratio of sand to cement for the mortar? Specifically for porcelain…
My comment above is the key ingredients from what I’ve found ... all advice from Johnny boy n few other TH-camrs
@@stevenmccaffrey4162 sorry I don’t see a comment above that mentions it
no worries ... from my experience 5:1 wet mix with half cup sbr and some plastercizer bonded with a primer is absolutely solid and bonded when set.
I go 5 sharp one cement plasticiser sbr and just a little water enough to form a ball
Near oxford. My neck of the woods... can’t say I laid that one though I’m afraid 😅
lol
What are the correct procedures if you don’t mind me asking?
That would take a while if you need a hand Brian we can talk
@@GreentopLandscapes basically a mate of mine laid some a few months back and we’ve been today to take some up as they were ‘moving’ it seems like the hardcore hasn’t gone ‘solid’ even though it was well run over with the wacker plate plus none of the flags that were lose had stuck to the full beds here put down, the customer at the time of fitting said he’d spoke to the manufacturer of the tiles and to ‘paint’ the underneath with basically a PVA/water mix. Basically we/he needs an easy way to sort it properly rather than having to dig all the hardcore out (around 2 tonne) by hand and also work out if the pva/water mix the customer told us to use could also be 1 to f the reasons they didn’t bond to the full beds as such (I hope that makes sense as it does in my head haha)
Give me a call mate
Porcelain should always be laid on a solid concrete slab (Ballest/cement mix with accelerator and frost profer) then your sharp sand and cement mix with the same chemical with SBR also your Slurry on the back of a slab ……….
I agree
@@GreentopLandscapes so many people installing it on wet mix on scalps 😤 = half a job !!
My porcelain patio failed but I'm not sure why, most of them lifted but I used a slurry, laid a type 1 thick wackered aggregate base, full slab of mortar etc. If I'd cut corners I could blame myself but I'm just confused at this stage.
Happy to talk and find how why it failed>
@@GreentopLandscapes Thanks mate, appreciate that. What's the best way to have a quick chat?
07795595994
Did you ever find out why it failed? And by ‘failed’ what do you mean? Did it subside or lift?
Do you work in Peterborough?
Nationwide
Hi Johnny boy
Great advice mate for people to take heed if mate , if unsure don't proceed? and naming and shaming don't help anyone out mate , not customer not paying bills and causes a lot of trouble and gets you no where ! This is where the client must learn as well if your driven for the cheapest quote then generally you will get the cheapest job ! We all make mistakes it's how you respond to them that counts pal ? I'm seeing clients not prepared to wait for jobs using so called professionals and then asking me to comment on their work ( if you can call it that ) which I never do ,all i say if your not happy with their work what do you expect me to say ? I won't be drawn into a free consultation / estimation stick to best the contractor with , I'll help you but remember my quote and why it was higher ? Nice if you to help out mate and great ethics to see you resist laying into the contractor , it's why your s top firm mate , honest , reliable , morals , and values! you can't see them on a flyer or web page mate but they are pre requisite for contracters , keep safe mate and raining again up hear 💦💯💗👍
Sub contract the work, make money having someone else do it for you! Your a genius why haven't I thought of it before I'm going to triple my work load now thanks 😁
I'm all for naming and shaming. Sick of wasting money on cowboys.
0:52 I’m still laughing at the trump 😂😂😂😂
Lol me to
It’s your patio / job. It’s very obvious.
Really ? You plonker
Hire a cowboy and you can expect a quick getaway.
Atleast the tiles came up easy for re use by a pro haha
Yes it was
A diy attempt gone wrong perhaps?
I once looked at a job experienced something similar but the wife dropped him in it by mistake! (He laid 50m2 of Indian sandstone upside down! ;) )
It happens
As a landscaper myself I can see its just a case of the customer going back to the contractor and resolving it. Its obviously not a competent contractor and likely all trust would be lost. Just hope it wasn't a job done for the lowest quote and generally (in my experience) least professional outcome. But not always! Personally I'm not a fan of showing others work up or getting involved in such disputes but that's just my opinion and I'm not questioning your integrity!
I just went to help Andrew as they need some direction also I never name and shame and this video can only help others.
That’s fine for you. However if you are the end customer who has paid good money for someone not knowing how to do things then needs to be known about, shown about and fixed. There were no names mentioned here. Friends of ours had to remove an entire new patio as they laid it too high. Doors would not open, he is a surveyor, not the cheapest quote, builder a good builder used a subi. Bad work needs to be shown and dealt with, either the guy or gal learns or they need to stop doing it.
Slurry is amust
💯
Morning mate
Jesus poor guys having to pay twice be nice to know what contractors said ? Did they respond? And tell u what Johnny you shown a bit of class not naming shaming mate
Edit
?
Ok just don’t Mention it. Don’t spend 30 seconds letting everyone know what a good guy you are not mentioning it. Bit narcissistic that
?