Buy both, learn both, get a second focal plane in moa to harvest game. Get a FFP in MRAD for target/ elr… if it’s beyond your capacity to become proficient in both, pick one and stick to it…
Just went through this and purchased two scopes from vortex. Selected both in MOA, wish I would have selected MIL for my heavy barreled 308. My hunting rifle will be fine because of BDC reticle. Where I'm hunting 350 yards is a rare opportunity. Mostly under 100 yards. Selected 3 to 15 because of that. Have a 308 and a 7mm-08 for in the woods, and I'm going to go with an LPVO for that.
Makes it much easier when my brother is spotting for me in mills and I'm shooting in moa. 😂 once we figured that out I got my scope dialed in and was hitting steel out at 1000 yards.
So correct me if I'm wrong. MOA is the English system and MIL is the metric system. So roughly 1 MOA at 100 yards is an inch, and 1 MIL at 100 meters is a centimeter (or would it be 10 centimeters - or approximately 5 inches?) 1 MOA at 1000 yards is 10 inches and 1 MIL at 1000 meters is 10 centimeters or 100 centimeters? Of course MOA is a finer adjustment, but the advantage of MIL is with the same number of scope clicks you get a wider range to adjust? MOA just seems simpler to me because I think in yards and inches, not meters and centimeters. Never heard an explanation that makes sense to me.
No - that's a more niche area of the long range community, very specific in their requirements. Those shooters most often if not exclusively use MOA. Our Golden Eagle 15-60x52 Riflescope is specifically designed for that type of shooting and is only available in MOA.
Well said & taught. Common reference was: perhaps buy moa or Mrad scope based on what your friends use. (Correct) But I'd add that if you own several scopes, stay w that one type to save confusion.
#1. Don't mix MOA and MRAD (be sure the reticle and turret adjustments are both in one or the other) #2. If you hate the metric system, you're probably going to be more comfortable in MOA #3. If "inches" and "yards" confuse you, you are almost certainly going to be more comfortable in MRAD #4. If you are used to using "mils" in the military, you are already used to MRAD. #5. NEVER mix MOA and MRAD!!!
MRAD can still just as easily be used with the imperial system (inches, etc). People tend to use metric with it because metric is Base 10, and that further simplifies it. But you do not have to use metric with an MRAD optic.
Yea your 2nd point is just stupid. MRAD, just like MOA, is simply an angular measure. They will both work with metric or freedom units of measure. Get some time behind the scope before you post dumb comments
@@traceyevans2757 - yes smartass both are just angular measurements, but no one cares that 1 Minute of Angle is really 1 Minute of Arc or one arcminute which is one sixtieth (1/60) of one degree. Just like no one cares that one "mil" is really one milliradian which is 0.057296°. People only care about the amount that the angle subtends at some distance. The angle of 1 mil subtends 1/1000 of the distance, which is convenient at if you are using a measurement system that handles 1/1000 quickly and easily so you can recognize 10cm at 100m. BUT people who think in inches/feet/yards are a lot more comfortable with 1 inch at 100 yards than they are with 2.66 cm at 91 meters or even 2.908 cm at 100 meters.
that’s why you don’t shoot well. You can’t think in distance when you’re shooting angular measurements. You need to think in angular measurements, not distance.
It is important to stress Mil Radians have nothing to do with the metric system. People get freaked out about that. It is a unit of measure just like MOA..
@@TexasNationalist1836there's an excellent video called understanding mils by the channel NSSF. Shouldn't be hard to find and it will likely be of use to you
The reality is that once you zero your scope, it matters very little. The difference in the holdover is negligible, and if you think you're good enough to hold steady *less* than that difference, think again. If you have a bias towards one for any reason (friends, former experience, liking one measurement over the other), then pick it and use it. If you don't have a bias towards one, then pick one and use it. This discussion is almost getting as bad as the caliber clowns that claim theirs is the only one that works.
Suffice it to say, hunters are generally shooting at shorter distances than long-distance target shooters. So, a hunter using MOA at 200yrds makes more sense than a PRC shooter at 1000yrd using MOA, due to it requiring more clicks than mrad.
The different between MOA and MRAD is 0.12”. MRAD makes more sense because, in the field, you can adjust quicker. No one will tell a difference between 0.12” at 100m or 0.25” at 200m. MRAD all the way
No 1 cuts their base board trim on the metric system in America. When they do.. mils will fly. The only reason the average American chooses mils is tactacool. Unless former military. Even though it is more simple in my mind.
This debate always involves bias and trying to over complicate the other. Keep it simple, if you take away the unit or name…. At 100yrds One click on one =.25” while the other =.36”. Move the turret accordingly. The MOA is more precise, however, the MRAD has less turret travel to get to greater distances
Buy both, learn both, get a second focal plane in moa to harvest game. Get a FFP in MRAD for target/ elr… if it’s beyond your capacity to become proficient in both, pick one and stick to it…
Excellent information, appreciate the explanation
Nice lesson. Would like to see a more visual explanation 🤓
Just went through this and purchased two scopes from vortex. Selected both in MOA, wish I would have selected MIL for my heavy barreled 308. My hunting rifle will be fine because of BDC reticle. Where I'm hunting 350 yards is a rare opportunity. Mostly under 100 yards. Selected 3 to 15 because of that. Have a 308 and a 7mm-08 for in the woods, and I'm going to go with an LPVO for that.
Very nice, best of luck in the field this year!
The language point is the most important in this episode shoot like scopes as your friends
Makes it much easier when my brother is spotting for me in mills and I'm shooting in moa. 😂 once we figured that out I got my scope dialed in and was hitting steel out at 1000 yards.
But I prefer mills but I just had the old moa scope laying around so I slapped it on the new prs rig until I got my new optic.
So correct me if I'm wrong. MOA is the English system and MIL is the metric system. So roughly 1 MOA at 100 yards is an inch, and 1 MIL at 100 meters is a centimeter (or would it be 10 centimeters - or approximately 5 inches?) 1 MOA at 1000 yards is 10 inches and 1 MIL at 1000 meters is 10 centimeters or 100 centimeters? Of course MOA is a finer adjustment, but the advantage of MIL is with the same number of scope clicks you get a wider range to adjust? MOA just seems simpler to me because I think in yards and inches, not meters and centimeters. Never heard an explanation that makes sense to me.
So you are saying F-class, benchrest and silhouette are using MIL scopes?
No - that's a more niche area of the long range community, very specific in their requirements. Those shooters most often if not exclusively use MOA. Our Golden Eagle 15-60x52 Riflescope is specifically designed for that type of shooting and is only available in MOA.
Well said & taught. Common reference was: perhaps buy moa or Mrad scope based on what your friends use. (Correct) But I'd add that if you own several scopes, stay w that one type to save confusion.
Agree on this as well, but not all scopes come with the option for MRAD, especially with hunting driven optics.
#1. Don't mix MOA and MRAD (be sure the reticle and turret adjustments are both in one or the other)
#2. If you hate the metric system, you're probably going to be more comfortable in MOA
#3. If "inches" and "yards" confuse you, you are almost certainly going to be more comfortable in MRAD
#4. If you are used to using "mils" in the military, you are already used to MRAD.
#5. NEVER mix MOA and MRAD!!!
MRAD can still just as easily be used with the imperial system (inches, etc). People tend to use metric with it because metric is Base 10, and that further simplifies it. But you do not have to use metric with an MRAD optic.
Do mix like Leupold Mk4 M3.
Yea your 2nd point is just stupid. MRAD, just like MOA, is simply an angular measure. They will both work with metric or freedom units of measure. Get some time behind the scope before you post dumb comments
@@traceyevans2757 - yes smartass both are just angular measurements, but no one cares that 1 Minute of Angle is really 1 Minute of Arc or one arcminute which is one sixtieth (1/60) of one degree. Just like no one cares that one "mil" is really one milliradian which is 0.057296°. People only care about the amount that the angle subtends at some distance. The angle of 1 mil subtends 1/1000 of the distance, which is convenient at if you are using a measurement system that handles 1/1000 quickly and easily so you can recognize 10cm at 100m. BUT people who think in inches/feet/yards are a lot more comfortable with 1 inch at 100 yards than they are with 2.66 cm at 91 meters or even 2.908 cm at 100 meters.
that’s why you don’t shoot well. You can’t think in distance when you’re shooting angular measurements. You need to think in angular measurements, not distance.
It is important to stress Mil Radians have nothing to do with the metric system. People get freaked out about that. It is a unit of measure just like MOA..
How do I use freedom units with MRAD
@@TexasNationalist1836there's an excellent video called understanding mils by the channel NSSF. Shouldn't be hard to find and it will likely be of use to you
Apart from its very definition and being in units of 10. 1M at 1 KM or 10 cm at 100M it has nothing to do with the metric system. Right.
@@MikeHartIDMike yes 1 tall yard is 1 mil at 1000 yards distance
Correct. It has nothing to do with the metric system.
The reality is that once you zero your scope, it matters very little. The difference in the holdover is negligible, and if you think you're good enough to hold steady *less* than that difference, think again.
If you have a bias towards one for any reason (friends, former experience, liking one measurement over the other), then pick it and use it. If you don't have a bias towards one, then pick one and use it.
This discussion is almost getting as bad as the caliber clowns that claim theirs is the only one that works.
What sucks is older school: mil dot reticle and MOA turrets.
If you want to use a Mildot Master "computer", stick with mils.
If you can easily find a place to shoot- Mil. If you have trouble locating somewhere big enough to use your rifle- MOA.
Then, what are "clicks"? In movies they seem to be used for angular measure, distance in any direction, and time. What are "clicks"?
A military term which means 1 kilometer
In reference to this video, a click means a single position Advance or Retreat of any of the turrets, which equals a 1/4 MOA or .1 mrad.
Suffice it to say, hunters are generally shooting at shorter distances than long-distance target shooters.
So, a hunter using MOA at 200yrds makes more sense than a PRC shooter at 1000yrd using MOA, due to it requiring more clicks than mrad.
The different between MOA and MRAD is 0.12”. MRAD makes more sense because, in the field, you can adjust quicker. No one will tell a difference between 0.12” at 100m or 0.25” at 200m. MRAD all the way
No 1 cuts their base board trim on the metric system in America. When they do.. mils will fly. The only reason the average American chooses mils is tactacool. Unless former military. Even though it is more simple in my mind.
This debate always involves bias and trying to over complicate the other.
Keep it simple, if you take away the unit or name…. At 100yrds One click on one =.25” while the other =.36”. Move the turret accordingly. The MOA is more precise, however, the MRAD has less turret travel to get to greater distances
Quickly answer: 9 clicks MOA is how many inches? 9 clicks MIL is how many inches? That's what I thought.
Always MRAD
Lol no
🤜🤛
Forgot it Guys.. When an American no longer reads a tape measure in inches.. then mil will be wfo. Period..