None of the other channels covering this series have done nearly as well at explaining the end of Episode 4. Now I understand what's going on. Thank you!
A lot of commentators on this episode keep saying Valya got House Harkkonen into the "Landsaad." I think they are already members of the Landsdraad--we did not see the Landsraad in this episode; we saw only the "High Council" (not the "great" council). Remember, the Landsdraad is huge and with representatives from house great and small, totaling more than 13K. The High Council is the elite body of the Landsraad and with a direct line to the emperor. When the lords come to harrow, they do not say Richese's departure leaves an opening in the "Landsdraad," they say there is an opening on the "High Council."
Desmond Hart is an Atriedes- ghoula or not- the one that survived Tula’s MassaKre , thats why he spared Keiran, and thats why the bene gessert wanted to make the Kwishcat Hadracht from an atrides bloodline. Thats my two cents, lets see
They wanted to change it, they wanted Hadracht to be a Harkonen,someone that could control, they did everything they could to change it,Lady Jessica to have a girl,even saving Leto,prevent him from dying,Prevent him and Paul going to Dune,as that would change Paul ,Why they said to Paul ,everything that could be done, Has ALREADY Been! Done!,Ie ITS going to happen and there nothing we can do to stop it!
Episode 4 was one of the best tie-them-all crafted narrative I've seen incl the movie adaptations. In one episode it tagged characters from Frank Herbert's books, that I read over 40 years ago, to his son Brian Herbert's books current storyline. Basically, my take is: Leto Atreides is the terror from the future time, and mind, traveling 10k years before to get back at the Spice Girls Sisterhood. His physical vessel to do this could be none other than a cloned version of the first Atreides who is now possessed by his descendant Leto Atreides from the future. Brillian concept, if they can spice up to fold space and travel, then why not use spice to fold time itself and go 10k years into the past? Brillian episode.
If you're correct, then Desmond Hart was killed on Arrakis. So what we are seeing is a clone that someone in the imperium made that Leto inhabited with his mind. Right? Sounds a little convoluted, but you might be on to something. How else would Desmond Hart survive Mother Valia's voice telling him to cut his throat? I do think the eyes in the darkness are the God Emperor's, but I'm not sure of what Hart is exactly. We know he is trying to get rid of the Bene G. But it also seems like he may have alternative motives that we don't fully understand yet.
@@waddeazy352 Thanks for the reply. Re the eyes, they are used in a lot of Leto Atreides book scene art but in the series the sound is mechanic. My guess is that the clever production team is throwing off the scent for a big reveal for Season 2 as in, could it be a future Leto folding time? or could it be the replica copy of the Intelligent Machine that uploaded a copy of its data deep in space? This also ties in the production is borrowing Asimov's Foundation theme, always keep a back-up copy. Ominous did just that and created a backup 'second foundation' somewhere else with the Ixians' help. BTW, this is gazillion times better than Apple TV Foundation.
What do you mean by the "first Atriedes"? Vorian? Or Agamemnon before he became a cymek? It couldn't be Vor because Talia would hella recognize him. I absolutely agree the terror from the future with the blue eyes is the Tyrant, but not sold completely on the tie between the visions and Desmond Hart just yet.
What is "leto2 .... traveling ...to get back at the spice girls sisterhood". The god emperor preserved the benne gessertit purposely in order to save humanity.
There was at least one brief scene where it seemed like a Worm was traveling toward the viewer in one of the tunnels under the chapterhouse on Whalloch IX...this can only be a direct reference to the God Emperor Lehto II spending millenia in the tunnels under his palace.
You left out: though it was revealed to us Theodosia is a facedancer--there was no reason for the reveal. This made me angry because Theodosia really is against changing her face, but then does it for apparently no reason at all, other than to tell the audience what she is...!?
I think Theo was there to observe uncle and then take his place. The princess theory is good though. Also I think the blue eyes the girls see are the thinking machine in the basement, connected through Lila.
While I'm enjoying this series so far and very impressed with the attention to Dune lore, I think the showrunners might be taking too many liberties with the timeline. I'm pretty sure the Bene Tleilax and their face dancers didn't show up until thousands of years later.
That's what I was also pondering. When did the mentats and face dancers show up in the Dune universe's timeline? Seems rather soon after the butlerian jihad. The mentats developed out of necessity after the eradication of thinking machines so you would think they would have needed a few generations worth of skill development in order to develop mentats. I was thinking along similar lines for the Ixians and Tleilaxu. It's hard to accept that humans could fill the of intellectual efficiency of AI in such a short time span and that a civilization so interconnected with the empirium could survive 10 000 years while playing fast and loose with the anti-technological convention. Anyhoo, its a very entertaining universe. 😅
This is my problem as well. The definitely were around though. The series is based off the events of the trilogy "Great Schools of Dune", and the Tleilaxu are only mentioned in all three books probably once, and it's talking about them basically being overrun and controlled by the Butlarian's. So, they were around, but I find it hard to believe they had the technology to make face dancers 30 years after being completely oppressed by anti-technology fanatics who flat murder anyone they deem as a "machine sympathizer".
oooo that's interesting. if true, it would be a good end around because the god emperor makes some comments on the litany of fear later on if I do recall correctly.
I thought face dancers got their names because when they shapeshifters they do a “dance” which I’m assuming would either look ritualistic or spastic and painful
The blue eyes are the machine in the basement. The girls are now connected to it through Lila and spice. Since the machine eventually creates god emperor, sure it could be him too.
I can't believe they would bring face dancers into the story line this early. I find it hard to believe that the Tleilaxu were able to create their face dancers this soon after being completely decimated by, and under the control of, the Butlerian's during the civil war in the "Great Schools of Dune" trilogy. An event which should have taken place ~30 years before this series. Only way I can see Theo being one, and not being under the control of the Masters, is if "she" is an early model and the genetic manipulation wasn't perfect yet and she was able to break free. The better explain this further.
Yeah, I agree, I think it is terrible thinking/writing and the show to to probe for potential further investments in fake dune series. Similar to when Disney tried to chase away star wars fans and replace them with "new" fans, who wouldn't hold the same standards and don't care if something is canon or even makes sense. If I ever see one more space bar it will be too soon.
I believe the blue eyes in the vision is Erasmus. Or that's who it is in the prequel books (Sisterhood of Dune, etc). I'm guessing each book will be the seasons.
Thank you for explanation I needed context. I thought the show was ok but after the explanation now am intrigued to read the books and actually rewatch all the shows again. No wonder why I was so confused about what was happening. I feel like such a boob.
I think this is analogous to the tachyons blocking even Dr Manhattan's precsience in Watchmen. So more like "The Tyrant's Fog" hiding the future beyond his time from everyone before.
I don’t think it’s Leto Atreides the 2ed in the vision, I think it’s referring to kralizec and Omnius (the AI) the eyes look mechanical plus the sound affects it’s referring to Omnius. It would make sense because Leto Atreides 2ed created the golden path to stop kralizac, Leto wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the breeding program. The fear the visions inspire will be why the bene gesserit creates the breeding program that leads to Paul Atreides and Leto the 2ed.
You guys have a lot of questions and conspiracies about the visions that’s terrifying the sisterhood. There’s no Omnius or Erasmus in the vision. It’s the kwizatz haderach. “Look in that place where you dare not go and you will see me staring back at you.” Before the last two episodes, the sisterhood didn’t know about the kwizatz haderach. Their genetic program was focused on controlling the Landsraad. The reverand mother said this. These visions are the beginning of the sisterhood’s understanding of him. And they are terrified. This is how and when the sisterhood shifted their attention (and breeding program) to focus on controlling the kwizatz haderach. They are beginning to understand that they are powerless to prevent his coming but can perhaps control when and who becomes him. I don’t believe it’s Muad Dib. His prescience and ability to travel through time in other memories was limited. Leto was preborn. You could say that he was an abomination. An all powerful kwizatz haderach, whose powers were limitless. In the books, he often ventured through time using other memories in order to manipulate outcomes. He manipulated his own death in this way. He knew “the worm” wouldn’t allow him to kill himself, so he manipulated events in the future to use one of his ascendants to do it. After his death, the sandtrout divided, each containing Leto’s essence. Leto literally became Shai Hulud. There is definitely a connection between Desmond and Shai Hulud. Perhaps a prophet of Shai Hulud? A ghola prophet? Lastly, has anyone noticed that Desmond speaks like Leto II? He is definitely a devotee to Shai Hulud
I am trying hard to explain how a face dancer is fully operational in the year 27 AG. Did the Bene Tleilax had that technology already back then? I am not sure of that. This timeline is set more than 10000 years before “Dune messiah” where they first appear 🤷🏼♂️
Beg to differ. Paul Atreides did not destroy the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood outlasted Paul and Leto II by thousands of years. Read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune.
games and anime spread pantheism However, there is only one God Holy Quran Surah al-Ikhlas In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.
It really looked like Desmond left that blood on the rail on purpose. Knowing what it would be used for.
I agree looked intentional like he knew they had thinking machines and he wants them to know who he is
I agree ..he wouldn't be that careless,...he is a soldier, a successful one at that
None of the other channels covering this series have done nearly as well at explaining the end of Episode 4. Now I understand what's going on. Thank you!
A lot of commentators on this episode keep saying Valya got House Harkkonen into the "Landsaad." I think they are already members of the Landsdraad--we did not see the Landsraad in this episode; we saw only the "High Council" (not the "great" council). Remember, the Landsdraad is huge and with representatives from house great and small, totaling more than 13K. The High Council is the elite body of the Landsraad and with a direct line to the emperor.
When the lords come to harrow, they do not say Richese's departure leaves an opening in the "Landsdraad," they say there is an opening on the "High Council."
Desmond Hart is an Atriedes- ghoula or not- the one that survived Tula’s MassaKre , thats why he spared Keiran, and thats why the bene gessert wanted to make the Kwishcat Hadracht from an atrides bloodline. Thats my two cents, lets see
That's why Desmond Hart will litterally set in motion the events leading to Dune because the sandworm gave him visions of Paul and Leto II
I wager he is Vorian Atreides or a ghoula of vorian
@@winterfreshification whaaaaat aaa
They wanted to change it, they wanted Hadracht to be a Harkonen,someone that could control, they did everything they could to change it,Lady Jessica to have a girl,even saving Leto,prevent him from dying,Prevent him and Paul going to Dune,as that would change Paul ,Why they said to Paul ,everything that could be done, Has ALREADY Been! Done!,Ie ITS going to happen and there nothing we can do to stop it!
Yes...I feel that his blood carries Atriedes dna
Episode 4 was one of the best tie-them-all crafted narrative I've seen incl the movie adaptations. In one episode it tagged characters from Frank Herbert's books, that I read over 40 years ago, to his son Brian Herbert's books current storyline. Basically, my take is: Leto Atreides is the terror from the future time, and mind, traveling 10k years before to get back at the Spice Girls Sisterhood. His physical vessel to do this could be none other than a cloned version of the first Atreides who is now possessed by his descendant Leto Atreides from the future. Brillian concept, if they can spice up to fold space and travel, then why not use spice to fold time itself and go 10k years into the past? Brillian episode.
If you're correct, then Desmond Hart was killed on Arrakis. So what we are seeing is a clone that someone in the imperium made that Leto inhabited with his mind. Right?
Sounds a little convoluted, but you might be on to something. How else would Desmond Hart survive Mother Valia's voice telling him to cut his throat?
I do think the eyes in the darkness are the God Emperor's, but I'm not sure of what Hart is exactly. We know he is trying to get rid of the Bene G. But it also seems like he may have alternative motives that we don't fully understand yet.
@@waddeazy352 Thanks for the reply. Re the eyes, they are used in a lot of Leto Atreides book scene art but in the series the sound is mechanic. My guess is that the clever production team is throwing off the scent for a big reveal for Season 2 as in, could it be a future Leto folding time? or could it be the replica copy of the Intelligent Machine that uploaded a copy of its data deep in space? This also ties in the production is borrowing Asimov's Foundation theme, always keep a back-up copy. Ominous did just that and created a backup 'second foundation' somewhere else with the Ixians' help. BTW, this is gazillion times better than Apple TV Foundation.
What do you mean by the "first Atriedes"? Vorian? Or Agamemnon before he became a cymek? It couldn't be Vor because Talia would hella recognize him. I absolutely agree the terror from the future with the blue eyes is the Tyrant, but not sold completely on the tie between the visions and Desmond Hart just yet.
What is "leto2 .... traveling ...to get back at the spice girls sisterhood".
The god emperor preserved the benne gessertit purposely in order to save humanity.
I watch the episodes multiple times before i come here Without you i would be completely lost😂 like im trying my best to keep up
Great breakdown. Thank u. I didn't read the books, but i love the movies and really enjoy the series. I appreciate your explanations.
There was at least one brief scene where it seemed like a Worm was traveling toward the viewer in one of the tunnels under the chapterhouse on Whalloch IX...this can only be a direct reference to the God Emperor Lehto II spending millenia in the tunnels under his palace.
You left out: though it was revealed to us Theodosia is a facedancer--there was no reason for the reveal. This made me angry because Theodosia really is against changing her face, but then does it for apparently no reason at all, other than to tell the audience what she is...!?
I think Theo was there to observe uncle and then take his place. The princess theory is good though. Also I think the blue eyes the girls see are the thinking machine in the basement, connected through Lila.
While I'm enjoying this series so far and very impressed with the attention to Dune lore, I think the showrunners might be taking too many liberties with the timeline. I'm pretty sure the Bene Tleilax and their face dancers didn't show up until thousands of years later.
That's what I was also pondering. When did the mentats and face dancers show up in the Dune universe's timeline? Seems rather soon after the butlerian jihad. The mentats developed out of necessity after the eradication of thinking machines so you would think they would have needed a few generations worth of skill development in order to develop mentats. I was thinking along similar lines for the Ixians and Tleilaxu. It's hard to accept that humans could fill the of intellectual efficiency of AI in such a short time span and that a civilization so interconnected with the empirium could survive 10 000 years while playing fast and loose with the anti-technological convention. Anyhoo, its a very entertaining universe. 😅
Maybe this is a Tleilaxu progenitor, that which leads to them.
@@whiskybrush3219over 1000 years for the mentats the show happens in 25 ag
This is my problem as well. The definitely were around though. The series is based off the events of the trilogy "Great Schools of Dune", and the Tleilaxu are only mentioned in all three books probably once, and it's talking about them basically being overrun and controlled by the Butlarian's. So, they were around, but I find it hard to believe they had the technology to make face dancers 30 years after being completely oppressed by anti-technology fanatics who flat murder anyone they deem as a "machine sympathizer".
@@whiskybrush3219unless the machines had already developed them before the end of the war but not soon enough to make a difference maybe
Without reading g the books, I’m lost after each episode.
I think that Desmond Hart could be getting his prophetic visions and power from emperor Leto to keep his family line intact.
Love this idea
Why would someone who exists have to go back in time to make it so they will exist?🙃
his weapon is fear based. I bet this is where the litany against fear comes from.
Fear is the mind killer
oooo that's interesting. if true, it would be a good end around because the god emperor makes some comments on the litany of fear later on if I do recall correctly.
I thought face dancers got their names because when they shapeshifters they do a “dance” which I’m assuming would either look ritualistic or spastic and painful
The blue eyes are the machine in the basement. The girls are now connected to it through Lila and spice. Since the machine eventually creates god emperor, sure it could be him too.
What Could Be Done ,has already been Done...All Roads Lead to Dune, nothing the Sister's can do to stop it...
This is an awesome breakdown!!!!!
agree and so sad will be tooooo short
I can't believe they would bring face dancers into the story line this early. I find it hard to believe that the Tleilaxu were able to create their face dancers this soon after being completely decimated by, and under the control of, the Butlerian's during the civil war in the "Great Schools of Dune" trilogy. An event which should have taken place ~30 years before this series. Only way I can see Theo being one, and not being under the control of the Masters, is if "she" is an early model and the genetic manipulation wasn't perfect yet and she was able to break free. The better explain this further.
Yeah, I agree, I think it is terrible thinking/writing and the show to to probe for potential further investments in fake dune series.
Similar to when Disney tried to chase away star wars fans and replace them with "new" fans, who wouldn't hold the same standards and don't care if something is canon or even makes sense.
If I ever see one more space bar it will be too soon.
Theo will transform to escape out of harm's way.. Finale
I believe the blue eyes in the vision is Erasmus. Or that's who it is in the prequel books (Sisterhood of Dune, etc). I'm guessing each book will be the seasons.
Thank you for explanation I needed context. I thought the show was ok but after the explanation now am intrigued to read the books and actually rewatch all the shows again. No wonder why I was so confused about what was happening. I feel like such a boob.
Definitely read the books, there are so many details that are not included in the movies or shows that help make sense of the Dune universe
Ah, I didn't know his first born had a diff mom - great video!
Do make Jentry Chau Vs The Underworld All Demons and Powers next!
Isn’t it obvious it’s eyes of omnius? They use same glowing blue color for a toy, for a flashback intro about thinking machines(ep1), and for a dream
Blue eyes in the dark > Desmond inside the sandworm
12:40 “Arafel” directly translates to “fog” and “mist”.
I think it’s more the “misty tyrant” or the “tyrant from the mist”…
I think this is analogous to the tachyons blocking even Dr Manhattan's precsience in Watchmen. So more like "The Tyrant's Fog" hiding the future beyond his time from everyone before.
See the drawing... Me be like... Letooooo!
I don’t think it’s Leto Atreides the 2ed in the vision, I think it’s referring to kralizec and Omnius (the AI) the eyes look mechanical plus the sound affects it’s referring to Omnius. It would make sense because Leto Atreides 2ed created the golden path to stop kralizac, Leto wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the breeding program. The fear the visions inspire will be why the bene gesserit creates the breeding program that leads to Paul Atreides and Leto the 2ed.
You guys have a lot of questions and conspiracies about the visions that’s terrifying the sisterhood.
There’s no Omnius or Erasmus in the vision. It’s the kwizatz haderach.
“Look in that place where you dare not go and you will see me staring back at you.”
Before the last two episodes, the sisterhood didn’t know about the kwizatz haderach. Their genetic program was focused on controlling the Landsraad. The reverand mother said this.
These visions are the beginning of the sisterhood’s understanding of him. And they are terrified.
This is how and when the sisterhood shifted their attention (and breeding program) to focus on controlling the kwizatz haderach. They are beginning to understand that they are powerless to prevent his coming but can perhaps control when and who becomes him.
I don’t believe it’s Muad Dib. His prescience and ability to travel through time in other memories was limited. Leto was preborn. You could say that he was an abomination. An all powerful kwizatz haderach, whose powers were limitless.
In the books, he often ventured through time using other memories in order to manipulate outcomes. He manipulated his own death in this way. He knew “the worm” wouldn’t allow him to kill himself, so he manipulated events in the future to use one of his ascendants to do it.
After his death, the sandtrout divided, each containing Leto’s essence. Leto literally became Shai Hulud.
There is definitely a connection between Desmond and Shai Hulud. Perhaps a prophet of Shai Hulud? A ghola prophet?
Lastly, has anyone noticed that Desmond speaks like Leto II? He is definitely a devotee to Shai Hulud
Francesca, out of the whole universe, is the only one with an accent? C'mon!
I am trying hard to explain how a face dancer is fully operational in the year 27 AG.
Did the Bene Tleilax had that technology already back then?
I am not sure of that. This timeline is set more than 10000 years before “Dune messiah” where they first appear 🤷🏼♂️
I was thinking she might be a face dancer.
In my opoin this is how amazon created Alexa
Bro sounds like heavy spoilers
he’s a thinking machine
Paul (HS) pronounces words correctly, though. "Dune-eye-verse"?
It’s AI
It is a really good show , but.. after watching it directly after the Dune 2 movie it does seem to be 70% rotten tomatoes
Beg to differ. Paul Atreides did not destroy the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood outlasted Paul and Leto II by thousands of years. Read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse Dune.
Believing in prophesies is a stupid endeavour...trying to make them to become a reality is dangerous
DESmon HART, IE. -> ATRIEDES
Vorian ?
The Bene Gesserit must go!
yup, the witches were burnt for a reason, just another cycle........
Theodosia is a shapeshifter, Desmond’s blood will poison the sisters records once inputted
games and anime spread pantheism However, there is only one God
Holy Quran
Surah al-Ikhlas
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.
😮😮😮🎉
This is dumb
Don't watch then