This is pure class. The man that wrote the book was man enough to be humble when he owned up to missing something. I’m a maintenance electrician with 40yrs experience and I’ve been learning from Paul’s videos for a long time. $11 dollars a month for Scanner Danner Premium is amazing value for money. I don’t change parts in the hope of fixing something; I apply what I learn from Paul’s instructional videos to electrical and electronic machinery (not just cars) and I am glad to say I’m not known as a parts changer. Scanner Danner Premium is my online classroom and Paul is a fantastic teacher. Thanks Paul.
I have never wanted to be called a parts swapper. I have worked at shops where the guys learned to tell more believable lies than if they had actually tried to learn how to troubleshoot the actual failure.
You are the man. I was a factory trained Ford tech until 1988. I haven't worked on many cars since then but I was certified by Ford as an EEC IV Specialist. I will say that I have forgotten more about cars than most common people will ever know. I find a lot of people here on You Tube trying to help by supplying us with helpful information and I must say that you are one of the best I've seen. The one most favorite characteristics about you is that you don't like to guess and you tend to question your own diagnosis until it has been proven to be the problem. I was intrigued by this video because back around 1985 or 86 I had an Escort with this type of problem. I've never seen it before so I thought I was going to see it again. Your issue was different than mine as the Escort in question had TFI I not TFI IV. This means it was a 3 wire module without a spout wire. It was brought to our dealership from another shop who claimed to have changed everything and although it would start, under heavy acceleration, it would loose spark. in the end, after about 5 days of part swapping, I hot wired it bypassing all of the on-board wiring. When that fixed it, I swapped the entire engine wiring harness from a new car on the lot. That didn't work. So I hot wired it again and it ran fine. As it turned out, applying voltage to the "start" circuit of the module would cause this problem. When I hot wired it I only applied voltage to the "run" circuit. I call a DSE (District Service Engineer) and explained my findings and we agreed to cut the "start" circuit wire about 3 inches from the module plug, tape it up, walk away and don't look back. It was a successful repair but I never made sense from it. Keep up the good work. We all appreciate the efforts you put into your videos.
Just kidding , I've learned a lot from your videos. My ranger was killing me. I'm not a mechanic, or electrician. Bought cheap multimeter and test light. No money no wiring diagrams. Everything checked out . replaced . crankshaft & cam position sensor. Still no start. Finally notice exiter plate had spun on hormonic balancer. Would have never got that far without you and others videos. I thank you kind sir. Oh 3 weeks I worked on it and was ready to commit Harry Carey, People don't realize how hard it is to work on vehicles
I have a lot of respect for you Paul...thanks to YOU not only am I ASE L1 certified, but I made a perfect score on 3 out of 5 sections of that test......could not have done it without you.........takes a real man to get online and admit he made a mistake...cars do get the best of us sometimes....I feel your pain.
scanner danner you are the man !!!! you are the one that propelled me to be the mechanic i am today. i appreciate the time and effort you put on these amazing videos. I just work on a 87 ford f150 4.9 last week. same problem no spar. but it ended up being a bad module that came with the NEW distributor. That truck kicked my butt as well, but luckly I ended finding the problem. big props... keep up the good work. I been inspired by your videos, actually been making some myself. thanks from texas
Hey Scanner Dan, I'm having the same issue with my 1988 E250 4.9l. , I replaced the ECM when I first bought it, as it would run on propane, not gasoline. Well that worked for 30,000 miles. And one day it sputtered and died. I checked the inertia switch it was connecting. Checked the PIP, that was good. Down the road I replaced the high-pressure pump, replaced both relays. ECM, and fuel pumpI figured we were back to the ECM again. Bought another A1 Cardone unit. Still no go. I can hear the pumps running, but it does not dead heading as it should, just keeps on running on. I forgot mention the pumps run only when I jump the two terminals of the fuel pump relay socket #3 and #4 the red and yellow wires. Not get a signal to run when switch is turned on. I do have a constant spark from the coil. I am beside myself on this. I've been a mechanic for 50 years, mostly on heavy equipment. Learning all about this new electronic fuel injected gasoline engines' hit. I am to the point of about putting a carburetor back on this 300 six. What can you suggest? Can you teach this old dog, some new tricks! Thanx, Brian
Excellence as allways! I've faced that problem before and failed. Anyone that can't understand what happened there hasn't worked on enough TFI's. The 90's were hard on techs and problems like that can destroy a guy's reputation as a good diagnostition.
Great vid Paul! I'm relieved to know that even the very best in our field mis something every once in a while. The way you speak about your next diag step and thoughts out loud is really what makes your vid so great. Thank you.
Intermittent problems with wiring issues and grounds sometimes throws a curve ball. And great techs. And instructors with yrs of hands on experience are priceless.Great job Master Tech./Teacher.
I have a 91 version of this truck, same engine. The truck would randomly die. Then I could restart it five minutes later. After a few days it was completely dead. The fuel pump would not come on. There's no proper wiring diagram for this truck on the planet but I was lucky to find the fuseable link. The EEC relay was pretty corroded so I imagined it probably drew too much current tripping the link. It also killed my fuel switch. I replaced the connector and relay and ran a new fuse (maybe I shouldn't have done that). Now it works. I learned so much about diagnosing problems from that experience. I also learned a lot more from this video.
I don't care what your hater says Ha. That is real shop stuff. Most of us dealing with that old technology would be just as confident with the module call. What u show is that no one is a God here with diagnostics. No matter how long u been doing it. Even to the point of being able to teach it. What separates you from a lot is 1) having the balls to post it 2) not being satisfied until you and we understand what went on here 3) and not caring that Pete didn't get to eat dinner with his family.ha
Lol nice. Thanks brother. Didn't think you had time to watch my videos. Guess it was the title that sucked you in huh? Wanted to see your little bro get schooled by an old truck? Thanks Danner!
I got beat up by a f250 big block 7.4l . Same spark system. Mine originally would only stall on a Friday at 5 o'clock in finleyville. Then get towed in. My original issue was no pip. Did the module too cause it was cheap. Week later its back. I got some real weird readings but no pip again. Got another distributor and it fired right up. But my initial weird readings the second time coupled with this new video have me a little concerned of another failure. Google searching does show harness concerns at least on the v8s. I could talk all day on this. Great video brother
Ford is notorious for electrical and ignition design problems. My headlights suddenly went out on a mountain highway, and found out later that ford runs all the power through the headlight switch without using a relay. But hopefully our Aerostar was just a ford fluke!
James Danner i am what you call a long time DIY-er. that's right i do my own repairs and i have done almost everything. i have a 1996 camaro Z28 with the LT1 and that car stumped me hard. i replaced the opti-spark with a delphi, yes the original was BAD. i ended up being a bad ground but it took forever to find. im pretty happy with the way the car runs, which is excellent that car is damn quick for stock. anyways i learned allot about the opti-spark ignition system on the project. i still have the car and drive it regularly
I do not currently have this problem, but I do really appreciate all the info here. I have a 1990 with the same setup here. Its nice to have all the info for future problems. My truck is 33 years old, and i plan on having it for at least 20 more. Ive recently changed dam near everything under the hood, trany and transfer case. Im about 20 grand into it to date and feel its all been worth it. I love this truck and with the info here, maybe I can keep it going for a little bit longer. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. You said you dont think there are to many of these things still on the road. Still seeing quite a few here in the great northwest..... Thanks again
I found your channel on a link from Eric the Car Guy, and I'm so glad I did. I have been driving these old Fords my whole life, and partly from yours and ETCG's videos, I've learned how to do actual diagnostic work instead of just changing parts 'til it runs. Thanks a lot, and keep up the good work!!!
My truck wont start its an 87 f150 and I've replaced everything I can afford fuel pump sparks distributor belsts checked timing nothing seems to work but I don't want to pay a mechanic to tell me something I already know!. I'm glad you got this one back to health!
I want to take a moment and thank you scannerdanner. I bought a vantage mt2400 off of ebay, and the reason I bought it was because of the way the seller explained how it just shut off and wouldn't come back on and he said he could hear something rattling around inside of it. I knew at that very moment the battery terminal had came unsoldered. so I bought it and sure enough that's exactly what it was. I fixed it and its been one of the best lil diagnostic tools I own. they are going for around $500 each and i only have $30 invested in mine, so thank you so much. You are one hell of a diagnostic mechanic. Thanks again Sam☺
I liked it`s refreshed memories went I used too work FORD cars Dealer ... we build a tool that bypasses the module & spout..so we don`t have too push this cars and truck back to the garage on bad weather ...the tool is just a good module and cut a piece of metal of the same diameter of the module so do not overheat and go to a junk yard and get cut the harness side connector..i will send u a picture of the one I have... continue with the good work you are doing ... you have my respect and I been in this business more than 40 years ...
All the respect to you Dan! Thanks for this video on an older F150. A buddy has the same truck with 351, so the info may be helpful to us up here in Canada. (Not many around but a couple you see from time to time) You fixed it, move on to the next job! 😊
Thanks once again Paul, for everything you do on this community, and that's one of the reasons why I want to go To Rosedale Technical Institute and be in your class, because your are so down to earth and unlike others you are real and honest enough to admit when you make a mistake. Am taking as many notes as I can on my paper book to be ready by the time is time to be in your class.
I don't think that this was a screw up or a butt kicking. This is automotive work. Sometimes you zero in on a solution but can be blindsided by a minor detail that you might of overlooked. This video shows that you are a true professional and that you backed up and covered all your base's when your original diagnosis was off, found the actual problem and fixed it. Good job.
Paul, watching your videos makes me realize that if you want to be a great technician you can't be a parts changer. Your methods are jus sensational, I've learned so much from you, starting with how to use a test light to check for power on different areas, the 5volt check etc. Car mechanics have changed a lot and you're giving us the tools to adapt to the new era of automotive diagnosis processes. The "mistake" you made here is just true wisdom for us who follow you, and teaches us to always go through the basics. No need to feel bad for this. I really appreciate all your work Paul. All I can say is thank you.
Don't feel bad Paul, can't win them all. Sometimes it seems to me we learn the best and remember the best when we get our buts kicked. Been there and done that. Thanks for sharing.
man ill be honest i woulda had no fn clue how to fix this and i woulda told whoever sorry bro take it to a shop cuz i cant figure this out... scanner you are a TRUE PRO.. hats off to u homie
I know video is way over 2 years old. But the foxbody mustang from 86 to 93 all use the TFI eec-iv and this is great troubleshooting for that ignition system. Thanks for the video.
I know this is an old video, but my 1986, Ford, 300 I6 is doing this very thing, and I have a wealth of knowledge to help me dig in and get her sparking again!! Thank you
Dude I got so psyched for this video when I saw the title!! Coincidence: just spent three days getting my butt kicked by a '89 Bronco II 2.9 V6 with a misfire at my friend's garage. I'll try to post the details in a separate comment if TH-cam cooperates :)
Thank so much for these videos on this f150 . I just went through the exact same thing with a 96 f250. Up and running . It had a weak coil and a bad ignition module . Did all the research. Performed the voltage tests as you teach and proved the the parts were bad . Ps after changing the ignition module I had weak spark at the coil. Thank you for your trouble mr. Danner . Bill Grimsby Ontario Canada
Reminds me of the no-start hell I had with my Escort wagon a few months back. Turned out to be a broken wire in the harness. I bypassed it like you did temporarily then cut the harness open and rewired it (with trailer wire of all things) once I knew I was in good shape.
This is similar that i found low voltage feed to the alternator not charging. just .5 volts drop was all it was. That was a feed through a fused link at the battery. It was a corroded splice of 4 wires. I bypassed the splice and it works good now. Ford splices are welded with no crimp band, not the best but the cheapest for production. Great video!
This taught me a valuable lesson, i recently got my ass kicked by a 1996 mazda protege, i ruled out all the hard stuff first and forgot to check the basics. Thank you ScannerDanner.
I tell ya being in this business more often than not when vehicles get sent to me from other shops or dealers it's just that. Someone thought way to hard and forgot the basics.
Great video! I have a 1988 Bronco II that I bought new in 1987. It's not my daily driver; I mostly use it when I'm planning on going down dirt or 4WD roads. I do almost all the work on it myself so it's very helpful that you cover this system in your videos. Thanks for putting this video out there.
Nice video bro, love to see these older vehicles like this because it's so hard to find anything on them... Good job man, helped me a lot with my 89 4.9!
On my now sadly retired (to the scrap yard with 328 K miles) "86 F 350 I had ECM failures on a pretty regular basis so that I carried a spare in the truck. Failure was typically intermittent and only when hot. A hand full of snow or an iced drink cup placed on the ECM to cool it usually returned functionality. Early on i also had connector issues, so I removed the connectors and soldered the wires to join them. Wire nuts worked when i did a replacement in the field and then solder back at the garage.
I just had a 1988 bronco 5.0 kick my you know what, it was a no start, we had spark and fuel pressure, but noid light was faint to non existent. Went through all power and Grounds, tracing wires for insulation being deteriorated, rubbed through etc... Replace ECM, No Fix! Truck never even acted like it wanted to start, Eventually by chance unplugged MAP Sensor, Truck started, Unbelieveable. Replaced Map sensor, Sent Customer down the road, Boy What a Lesson.
Sam Tedder I have a 88 f150 4.9 5spd , fuel pressure is 50 psi ,noide light used and injectors have pulse , has spark , new distributor , plugs , wires etc , truck will run with ether and gas sprayed into throttle body , but will not start with out spraying gas in throttle body . I'm stumped . Any ideas ? Or if anyone see this and has any idea please help me , call me or.text me 5403881364 , I can not figure this truck out . Am I missing something ?
This engine and its operation is in good condition but its the engine itself is a bloody sick puppy to deal with but unfortunately for the block your the cure for its illnessess. And now its showing why its power relay is too low on its voltage, but too afraid to show itself for its final inspection!. Their power relay buddies will be in for a shock treatment, even at the end of their own pulse width lol ha ha ha.....
I know this is old but good info. Not many guys out there that know what EEC-IV even is. I had one in the shop about a month ago with no spark. Cheap assed aftermarket distributor had actually sheared she roll pin holding the Dist. gear on. Luck was with me, the gear and all the washers dropped onto the ledge and I was able to grab them out with a magnet. The roll pin was paper thin. I replaced it with a heavy one, slammed it back together and shipped it. ;)
Man this brings back memories of my first truck, an 89 F-150 with the 300 inline 6. Died once, needed a module. Died another time, blown fuseable link. Died once, bad alternator. Died once, seized air pump threw the belt. Died once, fuel pump. Learned so much about wrenching trying to keep that thing running. I think I still have the old blue Haynes manual that I bought at Autozone. Can you even buy those anymore?
I've got the same problem w one currently and here I am, appreciate the insight brother in wrenches....shit happens, been in the field long enough to know this.
Don't be too hard on yourself. No matter how knowledgeable we are we always try the easiest most probable component to condemn first. We still have a customer with the exact same truck so if it ever stops running I certainly will remember your video. After 47 years in the trade I still get bit every so often.
Hello Paul, in this video you're not failing. A batter doesn't hit ever ball he is thrown. You didn't step back from the plate, you kept swinging and got a home run. I've been watching alot of your videos lately. During the video I guessed that the wire had a break in it. Meaning the diagnostic skills your teaching are fundamental and that my diagnostic skills are increasing. So thank you.
Would be interesting to find out if the module actually had gone bad.... That's what I would have done! Love these videos, don't know why but, these days, they are about the only thing that manages to get my full concentration for more than 30 mins. Love to see more "old" cars with no obd, you learn so many interesting techniques that don't require expensive tools. If you ever get your hands on an Alfa Milano, please make a video. Would be interesting to see how you get on with an old, temperamental Italian car....
Hi P Danner n thank you, yes it is a 1981 camaro 3.8 V6 a new motor was put in before i got it. I check the control wire at distributor and I have 8v and no control from the ICM, but when I disconnect the EST it jumps to 12v and I have control from the ICM.THANKS
Hey Paul, I own a 1986 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 sequential fuel injection and I have the factory manuals on the vehicle it was interesting to see that when you unplugged the spout connector that the vehicle started. On my diagrams for the start ignition Circuit the starter relay provides a 12 V start signal into the TFI ignition module via pin three of the ignition module, and the literature states that during cranking the ignition module only uses the PIP signal due to the fact that the ignition module knows the car is cranking is it possible that due to the voltage problem at the CPU that that start signal is not getting to the TFI module and therefore it's relying on this SPOUT signal to fire the coil but as we know the SPOUT signal was very weak at four VOLTS. THANKS PAUL, BEST SUBSCRIPTION FOR DIAGNOSTICS!!!!
one thing I learned on my 1995 f150 is to always be sure you have a good ground on the test light. I have heard you say it before. I chased wires and grounds that weren't broken for days when I had a bad fuel pump all along. I knew the fuel pump wasn't running but I jumped the test port and didn't get power at the fuel pump plug. turns out I did but my ground on my test light wasn't good and I was mistaken. couple that with a fuel pump that was just running at ok pressure just the day before and my denial that I would have to drop the tank or pull the bed. That little ground check could have saved me hours of frustration.
let he amongst us who has not eaten an ignition module cast the first pip or coil or whatever the case maybe for it is written or somebody said it "to err is human" and while we may take comfort knowing someone somewhere is casting dispersion on the genius/moron who dremped up the fusable linc. in all honesty Thank you for everything you shown and explained , great videos and channel I've learned so much about OBD ll just wanted to say thanks
LOL at 13:38 UH! "That's not cool" One of my all time favorite sayings. It's Funny how Fords make you say that especially those 80's models. I learned something though so that's what it's all about. thanks danner.
I remember seeing an ad in a Car magazine showing a mechanic sitting with his hands in his face trying to figure out a car. It showed the Troubleshooting light and it was after hours. He knew that he wasn't getting paid after hours and he's GOT to fix that car. He can't go home until it's fixed. THAT'S what being a mechanic is REALLY like!
Just finished the video, this is one of the best you'vedone. It might have gotten you but you did beat it in the end. It wasn't a failure. I hate hate hate those fusible links. I cut out every one of them on my EEC-IV car, replaced with a fuse box from a later model and matched the fuses according to the gauge of wire/fusible link. It also cleaned up the rats nest of wiring that lived on the inner fender of most 80s Fords. Next no-start I get on an EEC-IV I'm pulling the spout. I'll look like a damned wizard if it works. Got any more "failure" videos?
When they decided to go to MORE and MORE electronic controls, these crazy problems build up. Things were so much simpler years ago. But using good diagnostic procedures helps to pin point the offensive part.
Twenty bucks says one of the caps are burnt in the ECM. Any 90's Ford truck with no-start or drive-ability issues and you should immediately suspect ECM, pull it; remove cover, and hone in on the three radial capacitors.
it might have been said in earlier comments but these early fords had rudimentary connectors and in milliamps there could be corrosion that might have an effect on conductivity.....
Its a win to me. It actually helped me figure out something on my car and now my truck as well. Its all good to know. ScannerDanner just made my day again. :)
Its a short in the fuse box I have the same problem with my explore I tap on the box a few times while I try starting and most of the time it will start. Never found witch wire was shorting out
Man you just know to much! You simply outpaced yourself. You got thrown a curve ball but recognized it immediately and regrouped.. Thanks for keeping it real! I know you keep the best content for scannerdanner "international":) premium channel. Can you make some of the field work as part if not all scannerdanner regular channel? For some of us peons like myself..
ScannerDanner Premium lol man thought you had gone all the way Hollywood on us. Post got few far & between. But I understand when you are trying to build something and maintain it.. + other obligations. Its all good man.
The MT2400 really is an outstanding GMM, so freaking user friendly, loads of info and surprisingly durable for how small it is. Hardcore DIYers and weekend warriors really should look into buying one(ebay)
These trucks are everywhere in TN. My 88 is a 351w. Parts are cheap for these. I rebuilt the engine (first rebuild ever). It taught me a lot. Bad wires, bad grounds, everywhere lol I will probably never sell this truck. I rebuilt the C6 transmission too, but lets not go there LOL Know your limits! Ha! Ended up selling my Vantage ( a mistake) in the process and now have a Picoscope (love it). I have a newer F150 now, but I do like the older one. There's something about your first rebuild, the one that you cut your teeth on, that makes it hard to part with. This is the first series of Ford EFI on trucks. Not the best, but it works. Might be a good candidate for MegaSquirt.
Previous owner of my van cut into what I can only guess is a test port, round socket, to rig a hot lead to a toggle switch inside to hot wire the heater blower motor. I hate Jerry rigging so I chased it all down to find the relay behind the battery next to the headlamp was bad, replaced the blower motor too, as well as the resistor to it, I no longer have a cold air intake on the van, had to pull it out to get the blower motor out, to put it back I'd have to pull the front clip off or battery tray.
I traced it back to the relay ...now I dont have the fuel pumps coming on ...I have changed the relay and eliminated the inertia switch ..it has dual tanks and neither pump is coming on
@@markweber2958 Have you looked at your EEC Power Relay? This is notorious for problems and you will be missing power on a kinds of components under the hood and also power to your fuel pump relay, on the control side (winding side) of the relay
Green connector is fuel pumps and brown connector is eec..I have changed both relays and cleaned up the connections there as well....could it be a bad ground on the selector and or pumps??
It's important to emphasize that the PIP signal is Battery voltage 50 % Duty Cycle. As you mentioned Paul, both PIP and SPOUT should be identical in both amplitude and duty cycle. If amplitude of both these square waves are not approximately equal to battery voltage, then the resulting firing of the coil may not occur , therefore "no Start".
A few points on this era of Fords for quick directions: No start, remove spout. Still no start, check inertia switch. Finally, when setting base ignition timing, remove spout.
I understand that there is a triggeer wheel inside the distributor that causes the hall effect pulses that are the PIPP signal to the ignition module. But what I can't figure out is what fires the fuel injectors. Would you explain that? Thanks.
The ECM does based in part by the PIP signal. I say in part because other inputs help the ECM determine how long to fire which is all based on a pre-written fuel map
Cool! I was just testing my '85 F250 earlier this evening. I fabbed up a new ignition harness from scratch and found I wasn't getting spark with the SPOUT connector in, but was with it pulled. I also wasn't getting injector switching either way. Following a step-by-step procedure I found online from Ford, I stumbled upon the PIP pin at the computer harness connector at the ECU was pushed back in the connector, so no PIP reaching the ECU could probably do that-I hope. I won't be able to fix it until next week though...I hope that's it. I'm going to try and rig it though...swapping the whole connector housing is a major PITA.
I'm VERY happy to say that PIP pin-socket being pushed back in the connector was the problem. In fabricating the new ignition wiring I used numerous new pin sockets (hard to find), and these have a tight fit on the pins in the computer. Besides being in and out of the connector housing a few times, the tiny little plastic piece that keeps the socket in is a pain to get to in order to release the socket in the first place, and very easy to break. As the PIP pin is not on the inside row of pins, I was able to very carefully drill a small hole and fit a set screw such that it fits into the 'wedge' of the socket, and is flush with the surface of the connector housing, so as not to get in the way of plugging it into the computer. It worked! I has spark and injector functionality right after. After I made up most of the vacuum connections I tried to start it, and it fired up right away, for the first time since July of last year. I stopped driving it after it stalled on me at a stop sign near my home. It would randomly cut out while driving around, and then seconds later resume firing, but it had never stranded me until then...The wiring was a mess(Ford's first attempt at a dual-tank EFI truck, a mid-year introduction 85-1/2) , and I didn't trust the fuel pump plumbing and wiring, so re-fitted EVERYTHING. We'll see how it does long term. I still plan to open up the computer and look for leaking capacitors or questionable solder joint. Thanks again for the video, and effectively fleshing out the troubleshooting procedures necessary in working on these systems.
I've done everything that you have done to that truck. Only thing is that my computer control was brite didn't have to bridge. I still don't have coil power.
So this IS my truck.. I believe I got a bad 02 sensor rite now as learned from another video.. but in that other video u ran a new wire to fix the problem.. on my truck I had the frame rail fuel pump and the little 2 prong connector was REALLy hard to pull apart and I found that my connector was not allowing power to my frame rail fuel pump... and just last week I was stranded at a frys grocery store parking lot with a bad pip.... now I'm needing to time her plug spout back in and change the o2 sensor.
Hmmm... ya I got this 88 Ford f250 2wd 4spd t18 trans I also know 2003 mercury sable 98 Ford exploder Eddie bauer awd air suspension... why did that air compressor run all night long lol.. 1980 mercury zephyr my first car.. now this 88 f250 is my baby slowest vehicle on the road but I want to put 500k miles on it... sooooo yea lol
Where was this video back when I was in high school driving my '84 Bronco 2 that had the EEC-IV system with the computer controlled carburetor? (I'm about the same age as you). Seriously, this was awesome. It was black magic back then, but seems so simple now, thank you. I'm contemplating putting a 89-ish 5.0 in my classic Mustang, and this applies to that as well. Oh, and the family 94 Ranger with EEC-IV is still chugging along, although it's DIS with waste spark.
I have an 88 E150, when at operating temp it will quit when you start it, sometimes will quit again when you put it in gear, tho third time it runs. I can hear a miss when driving, new distributor, had the hold down for the cap broken off, new plugs, wires, O2, map, and fuel filter, need to check the fuel pressure. I hate the OBD1, and understand the EEC can have failed capacitors in it. I recently replaced the temp sensor in the coolant line, not done the air temp sensor, it's in the intake near the heat, thinking of moving it, I can't reach the TPS to check with a voltmeter.
I was replacing my water pump on my 87 f150. Stupid me left the hood crack open, rain got in the eec and fuel pump relay. Got new relays and got the fuel pump working but not getting any spark now. Was thinking maybe the ignition control module went bad after the relay shorted. My knowledge on electrics a bit limited. The more stuff I read for diagnostics the more I get confused.
Good Day Scannerdanner. I wonder if you could help with my 1994 Cadillac Fleetwood brougham which has an optispark for a distributor. This car runs perfectly fine, but suddenly, especially when I accelerate (if trying to pass) the dash becomes filled with problem lights, such as low oil, engine problem light etc, and the On Board Computer would show code 16, which is an indication of an OptiSpark issue. If I act quickly and clear the code 16 from the on-board computer, the car revives again and continues running. But if I don't clear it quickly and the engine shuts down completely, it may crank up again immediately or it may not, but it may crank the next day. The Optispark distributor, which is bolted behind the water pump has been changed several times in the last 1-2 years, by professional techs. Another professional tech suggested to consider replacing the PCM, which has not been replaced yet. The ignition module was removed cleaned and tested, and reinstalled properly with heat sink cream. What could be done to identify the cause(s) of this intermittent and unpredictable and dangerous problem. When the car is running, it runs perfectly, but suddenly and without warning the engine can shutdown on the highway in middle of traffic, in the middle of no where. thank you
sam rafeedie does it always happen when you accelerate? If so possibly could have a wire rubbing on the engine. When you accelerate the engine will twist slightly. Any wire that is rubbing will be more affected by movement of the engine. Maybe look around your distributor if that’s what they’ve been replacing
Glad you did this vid. I have a 94 probe with no spark and its looking like this may be the problem with it also. Its been a long time for me also with dealing with old technology
Have you managed to fix the problem? I also have a 94 probe, with pretty weak sparks, injector pulse but only running on 3 cylinders... AND no communication with the ECU (no engine light when I jump a wire for diagnosis...). Pretty desperate with this car..
Hi Paul. I have a 1998 f150 5.0 that keeps burning up ignition modules. The module quits working after about 10 minutes. Now, when i take the spout out, i have spark. When i put spout back in, i have no spark. I put in a new EEC Power Relay, No help. Where should i go next? Thanks in advance. Sam
I wouldn't be so hard on your miss diagnosis. That's a hard lesson we all have learnt on the job trouble shooting double check from final destination I e spark no spark back through to sender/control system to relay and then fused link or wiring from source power. (Battery) until I see good v/amps then same as you done work through issues. But there's always a curve ball in there now and again. Most times its logic overload and brain shutdown. 😀 but got it done great job and keep it up
Hi Paul,great video! There are a good number of these old EEC-IV vehicles out here in the west, still running! I'm fighting a ford with is exact problem! Thanks!
Hey buddy finally got time to get back on the my son's 89 F250 5.0 it was only getting a single spark from the coil, found this video disconnected the spout Got alot of spark now but I just can see on the vid how you jumped the relay and how you bypassed the short in the harness and what size of fusable link did you use. Please help and thank you
![1988 F150 Hesitation Problem [FIX!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-EihJ7hghXI/mqdefault.jpg)
![1988 F150 Hesitation Problem [FIX!]](/img/tr.png)
This is pure class.
The man that wrote the book was man enough to be humble when he owned up to missing something.
I’m a maintenance electrician with 40yrs experience and I’ve been learning from Paul’s videos for a long time. $11 dollars a month for Scanner Danner Premium is amazing value for money.
I don’t change parts in the hope of fixing something; I apply what I learn from Paul’s instructional videos to electrical and electronic machinery (not just cars) and I am glad to say I’m not known as a parts changer.
Scanner Danner Premium is my online classroom and Paul is a fantastic teacher.
Thanks Paul.
How does this information cross over into non-automotive applications?
.i agree
I have never wanted to be called a parts swapper. I have worked at shops where the guys learned to tell more believable lies than if they had actually tried to learn how to troubleshoot the actual failure.
You are the man. I was a factory trained Ford tech until 1988. I haven't worked on many cars since then but I was certified by Ford as an EEC IV Specialist. I will say that I have forgotten more about cars than most common people will ever know.
I find a lot of people here on You Tube trying to help by supplying us with helpful information and I must say that you are one of the best I've seen. The one most favorite characteristics about you is that you don't like to guess and you tend to question your own diagnosis until it has been proven to be the problem.
I was intrigued by this video because back around 1985 or 86 I had an Escort with this type of problem. I've never seen it before so I thought I was going to see it again. Your issue was different than mine as the Escort in question had TFI I not TFI IV. This means it was a 3 wire module without a spout wire.
It was brought to our dealership from another shop who claimed to have changed everything and although it would start, under heavy acceleration, it would loose spark. in the end, after about 5 days of part swapping, I hot wired it bypassing all of the on-board wiring. When that fixed it, I swapped the entire engine wiring harness from a new car on the lot. That didn't work. So I hot wired it again and it ran fine.
As it turned out, applying voltage to the "start" circuit of the module would cause this problem. When I hot wired it I only applied voltage to the "run" circuit. I call a DSE (District Service Engineer) and explained my findings and we agreed to cut the "start" circuit wire about 3 inches from the module plug, tape it up, walk away and don't look back.
It was a successful repair but I never made sense from it. Keep up the good work. We all appreciate the efforts you put into your videos.
+ELtee555 thanks so much! crazy stuff man
Just kidding , I've learned a lot from your videos. My ranger was killing me. I'm not a mechanic, or electrician. Bought cheap multimeter and test light. No money no wiring diagrams. Everything checked out . replaced . crankshaft & cam position sensor. Still no start. Finally notice exiter plate had spun on hormonic balancer. Would have never got that far without you and others videos. I thank you kind sir. Oh 3 weeks I worked on it and was ready to commit Harry Carey,
People don't realize how hard it is to work on vehicles
I have a lot of respect for you Paul...thanks to YOU not only am I ASE L1 certified, but I made a perfect score on 3 out of 5 sections of that test......could not have done it without you.........takes a real man to get online and admit he made a mistake...cars do get the best of us sometimes....I feel your pain.
Thanks so much Jerrod! Made my morning
scanner danner you are the man !!!! you are the one that propelled me to be the mechanic i am today. i appreciate the time and effort you put on these amazing videos. I just work on a 87 ford f150 4.9 last week. same problem no spar. but it ended up being a bad module that came with the NEW distributor. That truck kicked my butt as well, but luckly I ended finding the problem. big props... keep up the good work. I been inspired by your videos, actually been making some myself. thanks from texas
Hey Scanner Dan, I'm having the same issue with my 1988 E250 4.9l. , I replaced the ECM when I first bought it, as it would run on propane, not gasoline. Well that worked for 30,000 miles. And one day it sputtered and died. I checked the inertia switch it was connecting. Checked the PIP, that was good. Down the road I replaced the high-pressure pump, replaced both relays. ECM, and fuel pumpI figured we were back to the ECM again. Bought another A1 Cardone unit. Still no go. I can hear the pumps running, but it does not dead heading as it should, just keeps on running on.
I forgot mention the pumps run only when I jump the two terminals of the fuel pump relay socket #3 and #4 the red and yellow wires. Not get a signal to run when switch is turned on. I do have a constant spark from the coil. I am beside myself on this. I've been a mechanic for 50 years, mostly on heavy equipment.
Learning all about this new electronic fuel injected gasoline engines' hit. I am to the point of about putting a carburetor back on this 300 six. What can you suggest? Can you teach this old dog, some new tricks! Thanx, Brian
This are the vids that show that you can't ever get to relax at diagnostics you never know 100% there is always that chance thanks for sharing
Excellence as allways! I've faced that problem before and failed. Anyone that can't understand what happened there hasn't worked on enough TFI's. The 90's were hard on techs and problems like that can destroy a guy's reputation as a good diagnostition.
Scanner danner you will always be my favorite teacher man I truly appreciate you
The most amazing thing about this video is a 1988 vehicle with a working E-brake. Good video Danner!
Or did it :)
Great vid Paul! I'm relieved to know that even the very best in our field mis something every once in a while. The way you speak about your next diag step and thoughts out loud is really what makes your vid so great. Thank you.
I'm am certainly not the very best, not even close but I appreciate your comments. Thank you!
Intermittent problems with wiring issues and grounds sometimes throws a curve ball. And great techs. And instructors with yrs of hands on experience are priceless.Great job Master Tech./Teacher.
I have a 91 version of this truck, same engine. The truck would randomly die. Then I could restart it five minutes later. After a few days it was completely dead. The fuel pump would not come on. There's no proper wiring diagram for this truck on the planet but I was lucky to find the fuseable link. The EEC relay was pretty corroded so I imagined it probably drew too much current tripping the link. It also killed my fuel switch. I replaced the connector and relay and ran a new fuse (maybe I shouldn't have done that). Now it works. I learned so much about diagnosing problems from that experience. I also learned a lot more from this video.
I don't care what your hater says Ha. That is real shop stuff. Most of us dealing with that old technology would be just as confident with the module call. What u show is that no one is a God here with diagnostics. No matter how long u been doing it. Even to the point of being able to teach it. What separates you from a lot is 1) having the balls to post it 2) not being satisfied until you and we understand what went on here 3) and not caring that Pete didn't get to eat dinner with his family.ha
Lol nice. Thanks brother. Didn't think you had time to watch my videos. Guess it was the title that sucked you in huh? Wanted to see your little bro get schooled by an old truck?
Thanks Danner!
I got beat up by a f250 big block 7.4l . Same spark system. Mine originally would only stall on a Friday at 5 o'clock in finleyville. Then get towed in. My original issue was no pip. Did the module too cause it was cheap. Week later its back. I got some real weird readings but no pip again. Got another distributor and it fired right up. But my initial weird readings the second time coupled with this new video have me a little concerned of another failure. Google searching does show harness concerns at least on the v8s. I could talk all day on this. Great video brother
I hope for your sake it was the distributor.
You going to do a video if it comes back?. I'll stop by the shop and we'll promote it.
Ford is notorious for electrical and ignition design problems. My headlights suddenly went out on a mountain highway, and found out later that ford runs all the power through the headlight switch without using a relay. But hopefully our Aerostar was just a ford fluke!
James Danner i am what you call a long time DIY-er. that's right i do my own repairs and i have done almost everything. i have a 1996 camaro Z28 with the LT1 and that car stumped me hard. i replaced the opti-spark with a delphi, yes the original was BAD. i ended up being a bad ground but it took forever to find. im pretty happy with the way the car runs, which is excellent that car is damn quick for stock. anyways i learned allot about the opti-spark ignition system on the project. i still have the car and drive it regularly
I do not currently have this problem, but I do really appreciate all the info here. I have a 1990 with the same setup here. Its nice to have all the info for future problems. My truck is 33 years old, and i plan on having it for at least 20 more. Ive recently changed dam near everything under the hood, trany and transfer case. Im about 20 grand into it to date and feel its all been worth it. I love this truck and with the info here, maybe I can keep it going for a little bit longer. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. You said you dont think there are to many of these things still on the road. Still seeing quite a few here in the great northwest..... Thanks again
I picked up a 78 Powerwagon and I'm surprised at the amount of old dodge trucks still on the road!
I found your channel on a link from Eric the Car Guy, and I'm so glad I did. I have been driving these old Fords my whole life, and partly from yours and ETCG's videos, I've learned how to do actual diagnostic work instead of just changing parts 'til it runs. Thanks a lot, and keep up the good work!!!
Great video Paul. A learned lesson is a remembered lesson. That applies to more than just auto repair.
Thanks for posting !!!
My truck wont start its an 87 f150 and I've replaced everything I can afford fuel pump sparks distributor belsts checked timing nothing seems to work but I don't want to pay a mechanic to tell me something I already know!. I'm glad you got this one back to health!
Thanks, Dan. I wallowed around with this for awhile and found a bad EEC relay,
Thanks Todd and nice job!
My name is Paul Danner btw 😉
I want to take a moment and thank you scannerdanner. I bought a vantage mt2400 off of ebay, and the reason I bought it was because of the way the seller explained how it just shut off and wouldn't come back on and he said he could hear something rattling around inside of it. I knew at that very moment the battery terminal had came unsoldered. so I bought it and sure enough that's exactly what it was. I fixed it and its been one of the best lil diagnostic tools I own. they are going for around $500 each and i only have $30 invested in mine, so thank you so much. You are one hell of a diagnostic mechanic.
Thanks again Sam☺
That's freaking awesome
I liked it`s refreshed memories went I used too work FORD cars Dealer ... we build a tool that bypasses the module & spout..so we don`t have too push this cars and truck back to the garage on bad weather ...the tool is just a good module and cut a piece of metal of the same diameter of the module so do not overheat and go to a junk yard and get cut the harness side connector..i will send u a picture of the one I have... continue with the good work you are doing ... you have my respect and I been in this business more than 40 years ...
Pete Sambolin can you post this "module" that you built? Thanks
All the respect to you Dan! Thanks for this video on an older F150. A buddy has the same truck with 351, so the info may be helpful to us up here in Canada. (Not many around but a couple you see from time to time) You fixed it, move on to the next job! 😊
Thanks once again Paul, for everything you do on this community, and that's one of the reasons why I want to go To Rosedale Technical Institute and be in your class, because your are so down to earth and unlike others you are real and honest enough to admit when you make a mistake. Am taking as many notes as I can on my paper book to be ready by the time is time to be in your class.
I don't think that this was a screw up or a butt kicking. This is automotive work. Sometimes you zero in on a solution but can be blindsided by a minor detail that you might of overlooked. This video shows that you are a true professional and that you backed up and covered all your base's when your original diagnosis was off, found the actual problem and fixed it. Good job.
Paul, watching your videos makes me realize that if you want to be a great technician you can't be a parts changer. Your methods are jus sensational, I've learned so much from you, starting with how to use a test light to check for power on different areas, the 5volt check etc. Car mechanics have changed a lot and you're giving us the tools to adapt to the new era of automotive diagnosis processes. The "mistake" you made here is just true wisdom for us who follow you, and teaches us to always go through the basics. No need to feel bad for this. I really appreciate all your work Paul. All I can say is thank you.
+Moving Up DIY thanks man! great user name too! you really are
+ScannerDanner thanks. Shalom.
+Moving Up DIY peace to you too my friend! Love that word "Shalom"
+ScannerDanner yeah me too. That's how Yeshua (Jesus) tauhgth us to greet ;)
+Moving Up DIY awesome! thanks for sharing.
But doesn't that word date even before Jesus came?
I was thinking old testament times?
Don't feel bad Paul, can't win them all. Sometimes it seems to me we learn the best and remember the best when we get our buts kicked. Been there and done that. Thanks for sharing.
Goddamned TFI modules. It's always the TFI module.
Love to see videos on EEC-IV.
brakedd There was a class action lawsuit against Ford about the module.
brakedd This was a good reliable Ford system had many. No issues in trucks a few modules and starters etc.
This video is just exactly what I needed to watch thank you very much and thank you for being so thorough on each circuit
man ill be honest i woulda had no fn clue how to fix this and i woulda told whoever sorry bro take it to a shop cuz i cant figure this out... scanner you are a TRUE PRO.. hats off to u homie
I know video is way over 2 years old. But the foxbody mustang from 86 to 93 all use the TFI eec-iv and this is great troubleshooting for that ignition system. Thanks for the video.
I know this is an old video, but my 1986, Ford, 300 I6 is doing this very thing, and I have a wealth of knowledge to help me dig in and get her sparking again!! Thank you
Thank you! I actually have an EECIV playlist
Dude I got so psyched for this video when I saw the title!! Coincidence: just spent three days getting my butt kicked by a '89 Bronco II 2.9 V6 with a misfire at my friend's garage. I'll try to post the details in a separate comment if TH-cam cooperates :)
I see this one.
ScannerDanner Premium
OK I re-posted the longer one on TH-cam; if you still can't see it might try doing it through Google Plus...
Thank so much for these videos on this f150 . I just went through the exact same thing with a 96 f250. Up and running . It had a weak coil and a bad ignition module . Did all the research. Performed the voltage tests as you teach and proved the the parts were bad . Ps after changing the ignition module I had weak spark at the coil. Thank you for your trouble mr. Danner . Bill Grimsby Ontario Canada
I really liked it Paul. Your never surrender attitude is a great lesson for your students as well as all of us that enjoy your videos. Thanks!
Reminds me of the no-start hell I had with my Escort wagon a few months back. Turned out to be a broken wire in the harness. I bypassed it like you did temporarily then cut the harness open and rewired it (with trailer wire of all things) once I knew I was in good shape.
This is similar that i found low voltage feed to the alternator not charging. just .5 volts drop was all it was. That was a feed through a fused link at the battery. It was a corroded splice of 4 wires. I bypassed the splice and it works good now. Ford splices are welded with no crimp band, not the best but the cheapest for production.
Great video!
This taught me a valuable lesson, i recently got my ass kicked by a 1996 mazda protege, i ruled out all the hard stuff first and forgot to check the basics.
Thank you ScannerDanner.
I tell ya being in this business more often than not when vehicles get sent to me from other shops or dealers it's just that. Someone thought way to hard and forgot the basics.
Totally, now I learned my lesson.
Happens to the best of us, I hope we are never done learning.
The day we stop learning, we die, just like that.
True story ^
Great video! I have a 1988 Bronco II that I bought new in 1987. It's not my daily driver; I mostly use it when I'm planning on going down dirt or 4WD roads. I do almost all the work on it myself so it's very helpful that you cover this system in your videos. Thanks for putting this video out there.
Nice video bro, love to see these older vehicles like this because it's so hard to find anything on them... Good job man, helped me a lot with my 89 4.9!
On my now sadly retired (to the scrap yard with 328 K miles) "86 F 350 I had ECM failures on a pretty regular basis so that I carried a spare in the truck. Failure was typically intermittent and only when hot. A hand full of snow or an iced drink cup placed on the ECM to cool it usually returned functionality. Early on i also had connector issues, so I removed the connectors and soldered the wires to join them. Wire nuts worked when i did a replacement in the field and then solder back at the garage.
I just had a 1988 bronco 5.0 kick my you know what, it was a no start, we had spark and fuel pressure, but noid light was faint to non existent. Went through all power and Grounds, tracing wires for insulation being deteriorated, rubbed through etc... Replace ECM, No Fix! Truck never even acted like it wanted to start, Eventually by chance unplugged MAP Sensor, Truck started, Unbelieveable. Replaced Map sensor, Sent Customer down the road, Boy What a Lesson.
Sam Tedder
I have a 88 f150 4.9 5spd , fuel pressure is 50 psi ,noide light used and injectors have pulse , has spark , new distributor , plugs , wires etc , truck will run with ether and gas sprayed into throttle body , but will not start with out spraying gas in throttle body . I'm stumped . Any ideas ? Or if anyone see this and has any idea please help me , call me or.text me 5403881364 , I can not figure this truck out . Am I missing something ?
This engine and its operation is in good condition but its the engine itself is a bloody sick puppy to deal with but unfortunately for the block your the cure for its illnessess. And now its showing why its power relay is too low on its voltage, but too afraid to show itself for its final inspection!. Their power relay buddies will be in for a shock treatment, even at the end of their own pulse width lol ha ha ha.....
I got a 4.9 sat 3 years, map can go bad sitting ? Crank no start, fuel pumps prime
I know this is old but good info. Not many guys out there that know what EEC-IV even is. I had one in the shop about a month ago with no spark. Cheap assed aftermarket distributor had actually sheared she roll pin holding the Dist. gear on. Luck was with me, the gear and all the washers dropped onto the ledge and I was able to grab them out with a magnet. The roll pin was paper thin. I replaced it with a heavy one, slammed it back together and shipped it. ;)
I broke down today it took 40 minutes to jump the ecc relay! Great video, I didn't know what exactly the spout conn was.
Man this brings back memories of my first truck, an 89 F-150 with the 300 inline 6. Died once, needed a module. Died another time, blown fuseable link. Died once, bad alternator. Died once, seized air pump threw the belt. Died once, fuel pump. Learned so much about wrenching trying to keep that thing running. I think I still have the old blue Haynes manual that I bought at Autozone. Can you even buy those anymore?
Great video. Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield lol. You got it going and that's what counts.
Haha great analogy
I've got the same problem w one currently and here I am, appreciate the insight brother in wrenches....shit happens, been in the field long enough to know this.
Grate video!
Only people who did not work at a car, could not apreciate your efforts.
Don't be too hard on yourself. No matter how knowledgeable we are we always try the easiest most probable component to condemn first. We still have a customer with the exact same truck so if it ever stops running I certainly will remember your video. After 47 years in the trade I still get bit every so often.
Hello Paul, in this video you're not failing. A batter doesn't hit ever ball he is thrown. You didn't step back from the plate, you kept swinging and got a home run. I've been watching alot of your videos lately. During the video I guessed that the wire had a break in it. Meaning the diagnostic skills your teaching are fundamental and that my diagnostic skills are increasing. So thank you.
Lol. Fricken flashbacks. Tgif modules. Great seeing a new video. Love that old vantage.
Would be interesting to find out if the module actually had gone bad.... That's what I would have done! Love these videos, don't know why but, these days, they are about the only thing that manages to get my full concentration for more than 30 mins. Love to see more "old" cars with no obd, you learn so many interesting techniques that don't require expensive tools. If you ever get your hands on an Alfa Milano, please make a video. Would be interesting to see how you get on with an old, temperamental Italian car....
I know you're right on no crazy equipment , just experienced inmechanical is enough,, sensors are more of a pain tha their worth!
Hi P Danner n thank you, yes it is a 1981 camaro 3.8 V6 a new motor was put in before i got it. I check the control wire at distributor and I have 8v and no control from the ICM, but when I disconnect the EST it jumps to 12v and I have control from the ICM.THANKS
Hey Paul, I own a 1986 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 sequential fuel injection and I have the factory manuals on the vehicle it was interesting to see that when you unplugged the spout connector that the vehicle started. On my diagrams for the start ignition Circuit the starter relay provides a 12 V start signal into the TFI ignition module via pin three of the ignition module, and the literature states that during cranking the ignition module only uses the PIP signal due to the fact that the ignition module knows the car is cranking is it possible that due to the voltage problem at the CPU that that start signal is not getting to the TFI module and therefore it's relying on this SPOUT signal to fire the coil but as we know the SPOUT signal was very weak at four VOLTS.
THANKS PAUL, BEST SUBSCRIPTION FOR DIAGNOSTICS!!!!
Just my scenario, I was going to condemn the computer on 2000 e150 , but this show up
Perfect timing Mr danner
Always learn from the best
Thanks
nice! makes all the pain yesterday worth it.
one thing I learned on my 1995 f150 is to always be sure you have a good ground on the test light. I have heard you say it before. I chased wires and grounds that weren't broken for days when I had a bad fuel pump all along. I knew the fuel pump wasn't running but I jumped the test port and didn't get power at the fuel pump plug. turns out I did but my ground on my test light wasn't good and I was mistaken. couple that with a fuel pump that was just running at ok pressure just the day before and my denial that I would have to drop the tank or pull the bed. That little ground check could have saved me hours of frustration.
let he amongst us who has not eaten an ignition module cast the first pip or coil or whatever the case maybe for it is written or somebody said it "to err is human" and while we may take comfort knowing someone somewhere is casting dispersion on the genius/moron who dremped up the fusable linc. in all honesty Thank you for everything you shown and explained , great videos and channel I've learned so much about OBD ll just wanted to say thanks
LOL at 13:38 UH! "That's not cool" One of my all time favorite sayings. It's Funny how Fords make you say that especially those 80's models. I learned something though so that's what it's all about. thanks danner.
I remember seeing an ad in a Car magazine showing a mechanic sitting with his hands in his face trying to figure out a car. It showed the Troubleshooting light and it was after hours. He knew that he wasn't getting paid after hours and he's GOT to fix that car. He can't go home until it's fixed. THAT'S what being a mechanic is REALLY like!
Just finished the video, this is one of the best you'vedone. It might have gotten you but you did beat it in the end. It wasn't a failure.
I hate hate hate those fusible links. I cut out every one of them on my EEC-IV car, replaced with a fuse box from a later model and matched the fuses according to the gauge of wire/fusible link. It also cleaned up the rats nest of wiring that lived on the inner fender of most 80s Fords.
Next no-start I get on an EEC-IV I'm pulling the spout. I'll look like a damned wizard if it works.
Got any more "failure" videos?
I wish I could find a shop in my area that put as much effort into their work as you do
I have an 88 Bronco. This video was invaluable to me. You’re the man!!
Dan, I’m at a dead end. 96 F-150 351W same issue. I’ve replaced everything except the PCM
When they decided to go to MORE and MORE electronic controls, these crazy problems build up. Things were so much simpler years ago.
But using good diagnostic procedures helps to pin point the offensive part.
I had a 90 f150 4.9 that did the same thing. It was the same connectors in the harness you were suspecting.
Those Ford 300's kick ass. Even Mr. Danner's.
Twenty bucks says one of the caps are burnt in the ECM. Any 90's Ford truck with no-start or drive-ability issues and you should immediately suspect ECM, pull it; remove cover, and hone in on the three radial capacitors.
You owe me $20 :-)
I was on the edge of my seat during some of that cranking as after reading the title I thought the coil bit you. Well done though!
I remember when my dad had a ford just like the one in the video, those trucks were bulletproof for construction. I miss that old truck.
it might have been said in earlier comments but these early fords had rudimentary connectors and in milliamps there could be corrosion that might have an effect on conductivity.....
Its a win to me. It actually helped me figure out something on my car and now my truck as well. Its all good to know. ScannerDanner just made my day again. :)
Its a short in the fuse box I have the same problem with my explore I tap on the box a few times while I try starting and most of the time it will start. Never found witch wire was shorting out
Man you just know to much! You simply outpaced yourself. You got thrown a curve ball but recognized it immediately and regrouped.. Thanks for keeping it real! I know you keep the best content for scannerdanner "international":) premium channel. Can you make some of the field work as part if not all scannerdanner regular channel? For some of us peons like myself..
Thank man. And I wouldn't say I keep the best for my paid channel, just different. I want to keep this channel filled with great content too!
ScannerDanner Premium lol man thought you had gone all the way Hollywood on us. Post got few far & between. But I understand when you are trying to build something and maintain it.. + other obligations. Its all good man.
The MT2400 really is an outstanding GMM, so freaking user friendly, loads of info and surprisingly durable for how small it is. Hardcore DIYers and weekend warriors really should look into buying one(ebay)
I still have a MT2400 and feature it in a lot of my videos too. Got a $9k Verus and still grab the 2400 all the time lol
South Main Auto Repair Yeah and Eric, your videos are damn good my friend, keep it up.
Hey thanks jarin wilson appreciate that!
South Main Auto Repair I am not easily impressed, you sir, fit the bill. Keep up the excellent work.
I will do my best! Thanks!
Great information 👍 thanks for sharing your videos
That was brilliant mechanics from a pro u saved the ford at the end of the day what counts is that the damn thing woke up big up danner.
These trucks are everywhere in TN. My 88 is a 351w. Parts are cheap for these. I rebuilt the engine (first rebuild ever). It taught me a lot. Bad wires, bad grounds, everywhere lol I will probably never sell this truck. I rebuilt the C6 transmission too, but lets not go there LOL Know your limits! Ha! Ended up selling my Vantage ( a mistake) in the process and now have a Picoscope (love it). I have a newer F150 now, but I do like the older one. There's something about your first rebuild, the one that you cut your teeth on, that makes it hard to part with.
This is the first series of Ford EFI on trucks. Not the best, but it works. Might be a good candidate for MegaSquirt.
Paul, this is a very nice video. I appreciate the honesty and its nice to see that I am not the only one to make mistakes. Keep up the wonderful work!
Previous owner of my van cut into what I can only guess is a test port, round socket, to rig a hot lead to a toggle switch inside to hot wire the heater blower motor. I hate Jerry rigging so I chased it all down to find the relay behind the battery next to the headlamp was bad, replaced the blower motor too, as well as the resistor to it, I no longer have a cold air intake on the van, had to pull it out to get the blower motor out, to put it back I'd have to pull the front clip off or battery tray.
Thank ..you...I'm trying to run one down now and with your help I might be able to sleep tonight...
I can help :-)
I traced it back to the relay ...now I dont have the fuel pumps coming on ...I have changed the relay and eliminated the inertia switch ..it has dual tanks and neither pump is coming on
@@markweber2958 Have you looked at your EEC Power Relay? This is notorious for problems and you will be missing power on a kinds of components under the hood and also power to your fuel pump relay, on the control side (winding side) of the relay
Two relays on the firewall both have power in and power out when key is turned on ...I have cleaned connections to pumps and sending units
Green connector is fuel pumps and brown connector is eec..I have changed both relays and cleaned up the connections there as well....could it be a bad ground on the selector and or pumps??
Great job, great video. I like your honesty, this reflects live work. Thanks Paul.
It's important to emphasize that the PIP signal is Battery voltage 50 % Duty Cycle. As you mentioned Paul, both PIP and SPOUT should be identical in both amplitude and duty cycle. If amplitude of both these square waves are not approximately equal to battery voltage, then the resulting firing of the coil may not occur , therefore "no Start".
A few points on this era of Fords for quick directions: No start, remove spout. Still no start, check inertia switch. Finally, when setting base ignition timing, remove spout.
I understand that there is a triggeer wheel inside the distributor that causes the hall effect pulses that are the PIPP signal to the ignition module. But what I can't figure out is what fires the fuel injectors. Would you explain that? Thanks.
The ECM does based in part by the PIP signal. I say in part because other inputs help the ECM determine how long to fire which is all based on a pre-written fuel map
Cool! I was just testing my '85 F250 earlier this evening. I fabbed up a new ignition harness from scratch and found I wasn't getting spark with the SPOUT connector in, but was with it pulled. I also wasn't getting injector switching either way. Following a step-by-step procedure I found online from Ford, I stumbled upon the PIP pin at the computer harness connector at the ECU was pushed back in the connector, so no PIP reaching the ECU could probably do that-I hope. I won't be able to fix it until next week though...I hope that's it. I'm going to try and rig it though...swapping the whole connector housing is a major PITA.
+tempest411 nice. Thanks for watching and keep us posted on the fix
I'm VERY happy to say that PIP pin-socket being pushed back in the connector was the problem. In fabricating the new ignition wiring I used numerous new pin sockets (hard to find), and these have a tight fit on the pins in the computer. Besides being in and out of the connector housing a few times, the tiny little plastic piece that keeps the socket in is a pain to get to in order to release the socket in the first place, and very easy to break. As the PIP pin is not on the inside row of pins, I was able to very carefully drill a small hole and fit a set screw such that it fits into the 'wedge' of the socket, and is flush with the surface of the connector housing, so as not to get in the way of plugging it into the computer. It worked! I has spark and injector functionality right after. After I made up most of the vacuum connections I tried to start it, and it fired up right away, for the first time since July of last year. I stopped driving it after it stalled on me at a stop sign near my home. It would randomly cut out while driving around, and then seconds later resume firing, but it had never stranded me until then...The wiring was a mess(Ford's first attempt at a dual-tank EFI truck, a mid-year introduction 85-1/2) , and I didn't trust the fuel pump plumbing and wiring, so re-fitted EVERYTHING. We'll see how it does long term. I still plan to open up the computer and look for leaking capacitors or questionable solder joint. Thanks again for the video, and effectively fleshing out the troubleshooting procedures necessary in working on these systems.
I've done everything that you have done to that truck. Only thing is that my computer control was brite didn't have to bridge. I still don't have coil power.
So this IS my truck.. I believe I got a bad 02 sensor rite now as learned from another video.. but in that other video u ran a new wire to fix the problem.. on my truck I had the frame rail fuel pump and the little 2 prong connector was REALLy hard to pull apart and I found that my connector was not allowing power to my frame rail fuel pump... and just last week I was stranded at a frys grocery store parking lot with a bad pip.... now I'm needing to time her plug spout back in and change the o2 sensor.
Hmmm... ya I got this 88 Ford f250 2wd 4spd t18 trans I also know 2003 mercury sable 98 Ford exploder Eddie bauer awd air suspension... why did that air compressor run all night long lol.. 1980 mercury zephyr my first car.. now this 88 f250 is my baby slowest vehicle on the road but I want to put 500k miles on it... sooooo yea lol
Nice video,,, 32:00 We're did you run the wire to,, what relay
From memory, the power relay
Where was this video back when I was in high school driving my '84 Bronco 2 that had the EEC-IV system with the computer controlled carburetor? (I'm about the same age as you). Seriously, this was awesome. It was black magic back then, but seems so simple now, thank you. I'm contemplating putting a 89-ish 5.0 in my classic Mustang, and this applies to that as well. Oh, and the family 94 Ranger with EEC-IV is still chugging along, although it's DIS with waste spark.
Thanks for keep it real. Love your video, most guys wouldn't have post this. This shows guys like me you've gotta think. Thanks
Yep us mechanics...still only human..
Thanks for this video. I am sorting a similar problem on a 1990 E350.
I have an 88 E150, when at operating temp it will quit when you start it, sometimes will quit again when you put it in gear, tho third time it runs. I can hear a miss when driving, new distributor, had the hold down for the cap broken off, new plugs, wires, O2, map, and fuel filter, need to check the fuel pressure. I hate the OBD1, and understand the EEC can have failed capacitors in it. I recently replaced the temp sensor in the coolant line, not done the air temp sensor, it's in the intake near the heat, thinking of moving it, I can't reach the TPS to check with a voltmeter.
I was replacing my water pump on my 87 f150. Stupid me left the hood crack open, rain got in the eec and fuel pump relay. Got new relays and got the fuel pump working but not getting any spark now.
Was thinking maybe the ignition control module went bad after the relay shorted.
My knowledge on electrics a bit limited. The more stuff I read for diagnostics the more I get confused.
Good Day Scannerdanner. I wonder if you could help with my 1994 Cadillac Fleetwood brougham which has an optispark for a distributor. This car runs perfectly fine, but suddenly, especially when I accelerate (if trying to pass) the dash becomes filled with problem lights, such as low oil, engine problem light etc, and the On Board Computer would show code 16, which is an indication of an OptiSpark issue. If I act quickly and clear the code 16 from the on-board computer, the car revives again and continues running. But if I don't clear it quickly and the engine shuts down completely, it may crank up again immediately or it may not, but it may crank the next day. The Optispark distributor, which is bolted behind the water pump has been changed several times in the last 1-2 years, by professional techs. Another professional tech suggested to consider replacing the PCM, which has not been replaced yet. The ignition module was removed cleaned and tested, and reinstalled properly with heat sink cream. What could be done to identify the cause(s) of this intermittent and unpredictable and dangerous problem. When the car is running, it runs perfectly, but suddenly and without warning the engine can shutdown on the highway in middle of traffic, in the middle of no where.
thank you
sam rafeedie does it always happen when you accelerate? If so possibly could have a wire rubbing on the engine. When you accelerate the engine will twist slightly. Any wire that is rubbing will be more affected by movement of the engine. Maybe look around your distributor if that’s what they’ve been replacing
on the video you called the part (power Relay) I couldn't find that part listed anywhere. could it be called something else?
My relay circuit failed completely , I noticed I had no check engine light when I went to key on before start. The wire had corroded.
Unfortunately, I can only like this comment once. THAT IS THE KEY !!!!!!! The missing MIL.
Glad you did this vid. I have a 94 probe with no spark and its looking like this may be the problem with it also. Its been a long time for me also with dealing with old technology
Have you managed to fix the problem? I also have a 94 probe, with pretty weak sparks, injector pulse but only running on 3 cylinders... AND no communication with the ECU (no engine light when I jump a wire for diagnosis...). Pretty desperate with this car..
Hi Paul. I have a 1998 f150 5.0 that keeps burning up ignition modules. The module quits working after about 10 minutes. Now, when i take the spout out, i have spark. When i put spout back in, i have no spark. I put in a new EEC Power Relay, No help. Where should i go next? Thanks in advance. Sam
I wouldn't be so hard on your miss diagnosis. That's a hard lesson we all have learnt on the job trouble shooting double check from final destination I e spark no spark back through to sender/control system to relay and then fused link or wiring from source power. (Battery) until I see good v/amps then same as you done work through issues. But there's always a curve ball in there now and again. Most times its logic overload and brain shutdown. 😀 but got it done great job and keep it up
It's just so easy to have a module or a coil laying around for a quick test.
Hi Paul,great video! There are a good number of these old EEC-IV vehicles out here in the west, still running! I'm fighting a ford with is exact problem! Thanks!
Hey buddy finally got time to get back on the my son's 89 F250 5.0 it was only getting a single spark from the coil, found this video disconnected the spout Got alot of spark now but I just can see on the vid how you jumped the relay and how you bypassed the short in the harness and what size of fusable link did you use. Please help and thank you