Check out Norms thoughts on God and atheism, christianity etc. You can just enter those words into youtube search bar. If you love Norm, and Christianity, I think you’ll enjoy his thoughts.
That was a terribly short 52 minutes. Sir Jonathan, Father Andrew- listening to the two of you speak, both combined and in your various separate endeavors, has improved my life by 90%, at least. Glory to God, you are both a gift to the Holy Orthodox Church.
Father is pro gay and pro abortion. He's a fraud. Why do you sell Angela Doll Carlson's books on your website? She's pro abortion and thinks women should be ordained.
Oh thank Goodness. I needed to be reminded im not fatally flawed. I accept agency, but I struggle against something that wants me broken, its not me that seeks brokenness.
My copy of your book is due to come in the mail any day now! As a Protestant convert to Orthodoxy, so much of the Scriptures make more sense to me now…..and more importantly, I see salvation now as the Apostles taught it. So.Very.Happy.To.Be.Orthodox. ❤️☦️❤️
@@petarjovanovic1481 Fr Stephen Freeman has a podcast and blog called "Glory to God" through Ancient Faith Ministries. Following him is what introduced me to Jonathan originally, since they spoke at a conference together a few years back.
Fr. Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy podcast was the very first Orthodox exposure I had back in 2011. I am so thankful for his ministry. May God protect and help him!
This book has been, and continues to be, extremely helpful for me in my journey into Christianity. Coming from a completely secular background I was first invited to a Protestant church and found that I could never figure out what they were talking about. Now I've come to the Orthodox Church and find things are coming into view. Thank you both.
Father is pro gay and pro abortion. He's a fraud. Why do you sell Angela Doll Carlson's books on your website? She's pro abortion and thinks women should be ordained.
"Most of my writing comes from a sense of frustration." Good to know I am not alone ;) Looking forward to reading this one. Thank you both for your excellent work to remind us how cool the Bible is.
I will say that Father Andrew’s “Arise, O God” is an AMAZING intro to the gospels. If you want to go deeper then “Religion of The Apostles” or “The Unseen Realm” are great resources. However for anyone new to the faith that wants an understanding of some of the deeper concepts and implications of Jesus Christ’s incarnation, death and resurrection that are largely kind of “dismissed” in the west I’m not sure there is a better book than “Arise”. It was perfect for my wife who is curious but intimidated by scripture. Really one of the best books I’ve come across just because of its combination of simplicity, completeness and approachability.
I’ve been hearing Father Stephen and Jonathan Pageau’s voices for several years now. In podcasts and YT vids. Commenting on the FB. Your voices were encouraging and instructive, inspiring the faith in my heart. This is what God does. It is a treasure and a gift to be comforted in this disorienting time.
I'm evangelical protestant.About 4 yrs ago, I discovered Dr. Michael Heiser, an evangelical but a OT scholar and ancient langauges and societies etc. He has written books on the wider meaning of the Gospel and the falls and the powers in the heavenily realms. He believes in the cosmological view found in Deuteronomy and other parts of Scripture. Please understand that alot of protestants are waking up to this truth. Unseen Realm (Heiser book) has helped me see the bigger picture of who Jesus Christ and what he did by his death and resurrection and the heavenly realms, and yes his main topic in a good chuck of Unseen Realm is the sons of god and the Divine Council. I read the Bible now so differently.
th-cam.com/video/30QqmKX5vt8/w-d-xo.html That’s a three hour podcast of Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen talking about the same exact thing that Dr. Heiser teaches.
As a Protestant I was able to understand some of it as well....even in my encounters with casting out demons or other phenomenon that happens revealing the Two Realms and their relationality...but the thing is and what Fr. Damick is stating is that the over all presentation of The Good News (Evangelion) has been reduced to a snippet of words that makes it individualized and denuded of it's intensely forceful meaning that engenders one to say "What must I do to be saved?" I am now Orthodox though I should add!!
Bought a hard copy. Excited to hear this before i read it. As an Orthodox I think it’s interesting to see a lot of people kinda shrugging toward the ‘cosmic vision of Christ’ as the most sensible way in which the universe operates 😎 God bless!
So, the Gospels are: 1) an "incomprehensible joining of opposites" in Christ's death AND 2) the victorious declaration of a King vanquishing his enemies (all of them) cool.
I'm a protestant and love the book, such a blessing. I even have my pastor hooked on Fr.SdY's Whole Council of God podcast as I've been catching up on Amun Sul. Thanks for all you do.
So excited for this episode! Just bought Father’s book on Kindle and can’t wait to dive in. As a Catholic, I’m still dipping my toes into the Orthodox Church. Listening the Lord of Spirits has been instrumental in my journey into the faith.
th-cam.com/video/QMXSqqaa154/w-d-xo.html Eastern Rite Catholics care very deeply about the dialogue between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Something I care deeply about as well. It is something close to my heart.
EVERY church has a cinder in it's eye, no exceptions. And every church especially has thousands of POORLY RESEARCHED "cinders". What is with this anonymous "C" person? Religious zealots are more hypocritical than democrats and republicans. What's worse is s/he COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT that Fr. Damick was making early in the video, that this is about Jesus Christ, not about winning points for your church/ego.
This is so helpful about the attacks in the thought realm, and the worry that one is fatally flawed. It's always good to know that this battle is real, and that this is one of its manifestations. Songs of praise help combat it too. God bless, and all glory to Jesus Christ, our King and our God.
The traditional western view is practically the same, hence for example why Christ is carrying a banner of victory with a red cross at his Resurrection in western sacred imagery, just a small example of the 'Evangelion' announcement.
@@papercut7141 Sorry, I am unfortunately not well versed in Anselm. I presume you refer to his teaching of atonement for our sins by Christ's sacrifice on the cross? As for eschatological differences, could you enlighten me on what you mean there? God bless
@@Xanaseb well I definitely don't want to pretend to be a scholar on him myself, yeah I was just referencing his theory of atonement centered around satisfying an infinite honor debt to God for sin, which Christ's sacrifice appeased. Sparing us wrath. From that you can see the seeds of the east/west divide sprouting, which they talked about in the vid. Sin is externalized as essentially a legal problem for man(also reflected in the western conception of original sin), which we cannot in any way free ourselves from. Any concept of theosis or capacity for man to become divine is downplayed or ignored, if not actively resisted, in favor of a penitential, guilt-ridden, self flagellating culture which took root. This bears fruit also in the doctrine of purgatory, which even more focuses the western mind on their guilt, the wrath of God, and the weight of their sins. At the same time, you can see the seeds forming of a subtly self-centered desire to simply release your debts to the creator instead of joining him in loving sonship. Seeds that sprout fully in modern protestant notions of salvation, which the vid also mentions. Just with a lot of the meat, like purgatory, cut out from the middle. Anselm's theory also, i think, began the change in how we relate to demons. He probably didn't see it this way himself, but this focus on the legal nature of salvation seems to have been a seed of the reduction of Satan's agency in this whole cosmic game being played. It really shrunk the window we were looking through, where the older ransom theory (which the east still holds to) was predicated on this spiritual battle, because the entire reason our souls were enslaved to the demonic was because of our capacity to give them away. And if we can give them away, through Christ we can turn them back right. So theosis, heavily resisted in the west, and other doctrines flow back through I should stop. There are many other points of friction between the worldviews, in iconography, with the nature of theosis/saints, more on the way sin and death interact with us, differences in the sacramental vision and treatment of "symbol." There's a tendency I think in the west to de-mythologize a lot of our religion, overemphasize philosophy and logic. And it blinds us to certain things
Anyone looking to reconcile this mythic language with the secular culture we live in should consider reading Walter Wink. His trilogy on "the Powers" is a perfect companion to the Lord of Spirit's podcast and has made translating spiritual language much easier when speaking with a culture shaped by a materialist worldview.
Just guessing, but does he talk about demons in terms of unresolved trauma, ideology, gaslighting and ideas like that? For instance, in Mark, the devil in the Syrophoenecian woman's daughter is cleansed when the woman affirms that she is deserving of spiritual food. By saying this she broke the spell of inferiority she had accepted. I feel like this kind of talk is true and the only likely way to make Christianity seem relevant again to a lot of lost people.
I just bought it on audible & seems like a short book. Been trying to figure out what the gospel is so that I may proclaim him. I liked "How God Became King" by NT Wright
I'm an atheist, and I have a strong aversion to religion (all of them) but watching your videos interpreting these fables and lengends is pretty interesting! Keep it up man!
That's what I was always pointing out - if Christianity was against books and against knowledge as it is depicted nowadays by some, there was nothing easier for them to just stop re-writing ancient books, any books. We (well, most of the critics) don't realize how much is preserved by Christian scribes.
As a reformed christian. We do study the different ways there are of reading the gospel. We say that all of them, including Christus Victor, the one you are exalting above the others, are what the gospel mean. However ee emphasise the personal aspect of reconciliation by the atoning sacrifice as it is taught in every single letter in one way or another. I think important not to speak superficially of other traditions and exalt yours as the right one.
Man, so much good stuff. It’s been problematic to me for a while how evangelizing by trying to sell someone “the gospel” seems like a sales pitch and almost treating people like they’re your personal project. I was saying to someone the other day how it almost seems like in evangelicalism you have “the gospel” sold as the ultimate thing and relationship with God, your neighbor, and others as secondary to it. Once you have your get out of jail free card, what’s left to do. It does seem to come down to pistis vs gnosis
Just started following you today Jonathan, after watching the Bee episode. (Commented there as well.) I'm queuing this up for later today, but I'm anticipating some cosmic geography talk here! I'm giving a talk next month that get into the whole thing, with spiritual rebellion and it's impact on humanity, the gospel and the ushering in of the kingdom, and God taking back the nations. That 8th verse in Psalm 82 made more sense to me when I started studying the whole thing, (and the whole psalm for that matter) and of course caught my eye when I saw this video title. Maybe I'll have to read this book as well. Looking forward to it!
Michael Heiser its the first guy to unveil this truth. Its there in every branch of Christianity, but once you actually comprehend it and see it in reality directly in front of your face it clicks. Children will get it, then when you grow up it sounds wacky, then if you fully develop and genuinely seek the truth you will re find it.
Ephesians 6:12 is NOT discussed enough. Investigating the meaning is what began my journey from Reformed beliefs to the Catholic Faith, the Body that has been most able to unseat the defeated demons still holding pagans in their grip throughout the world. And these same demons are exploiting the many divisions that they have sown in the Body of Christ. I pray for Christian unity if it is His Will.
@@joshf2218 Christianity has always had it's moments. Once upon a time, almost the entire Church woke up to discover most of them were Arian Heretics. Don't let the ebb and flow get you down. Don't let it make enemies of your fellow believers. As Christ said when the Apostles were stopping outsiders from doing battle with demons in Christ's name. "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us".
33:57... Referencing the mythologies inside of native American belief systems I would really really like to hear more on this I am half Hopi which is a very old native American culture there are many stories in there that I have began to see symbolism in as I've been listening to Jonathan there's a chance that cultures have touched before and some of the symbolism has crossed over
Many years ago, I took a dive into Hopi mythology. I loved the Pahana stories, and the idea that there was a waiting for the return of the lost white brother. Very interesting stuff.
I pray I am not making an inane TH-cam comment, lol. To be succinct, whether you believe in the evolutionary model or are a young earth creationist or put your faith in something in between, all cultures have their roots in cultures past, which also devolved or evolved (however you want to think about it) from earlier cultures, and could be traced back to a primordial culture, whether an emergent evolutionary community or from the line of Noah. All cultures were one at some point in history. Hopefully, I haven't strayed too far from the matter. Sincerely, Steven
I agree there's a chance the cultures have touched and shared symbolism. There is also a chance that people everywhere have access to and may be guided by the same spirit of truth. Is it possible that God is resourceful enough to use modalities other than the bible to speak to people? (Of course!) Peace, brother!
Great talk which inspired me to buy Fr Andrew’s book. It is a brilliant perspective or explanation that provides simple and amazing insight. Talking symbolism for a moment, every time I see the gay flag I see an upside down rainbow. That is with the colours of the most base elements at the top and those of highest spiritual significance at the bottom (reference the ascending colours of chakras in eastern philosophies and their significance). So it seems apparent to me the inverted rainbow flag either deliberately or unwittingly portrays the worship of the most base (sexual) energies above the worship of higher, more rarified (closer to God) energies. Coincidence or not?
The Bible is the story of the salvation of man by the sacrifice of the Son of God. Herald: Evangelion! I come in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The only begotten Son of God, who offered his life as a sacrifice in order to redeem man. You may freely accept this gift or reject it at your own everlasting peril.
He has a point about the sales pitch thing, but my counter would be that most of the TH-cam Orthodox Christian’s were Protestant first. They came to Christ from a Protestant background. Which I find interesting
I'm from an American Restoration Movement background, which is technically evangelical, but I don't know anyone from that group that would disagree at all with anything here. Reformed folks maybe, but not us.
@@nuzzi6620 I'd love to see a proper conversation between two educated exemplars of each. I want to know what would happen if a Restoration guy was presented with early Church precedent for those things, since the whole Restoration idea is 1st Century Christianity imitation.
Well. That’s what social evolutionists would say. It’s a religion of the axial age and henceforth requires an axial age mind (what orthodox call their „phronema“) to fully understand it. We moderns went through modernity, which some call a second axial age an therefore possess an evolved set of epistemic structures, henceforth we need different metaphysical claims to orient ourselves. The problem with that view is at least twofold: 1. it leaves no room for the potential truth encapsulated in an ancient worldview. 2. it has no answer to the question of moral orientation
Dante makes the same point by choosing Virgil as his guide through hell and purgatory. To the modern person with false categories of reality, this seems very strange indeed. Dante had memorized The Aeneid by heart.
@36m, our stories - our ethnography, family history, society and cultural narratives dark-light, come into the church and clarified… whether medieval or postmodern…
This book is very much like the Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser. While he was not Orthadox, he is very much in line with this cosmic world view. Three falls of man: Genesis 3. Fall of the watchers Genesis 6 and Enoch and the tower of Babble Also the Deuteronomy 32 world view
Are we not all pagan in some sense before we’re Christian? If we don’t understand that we may not understand the full gospel. Christ comes to us outside and brings us into his body
Who has the correct view of salvation: Evangelical Protestants or Orthodox Christians? As Father Stephen DeYoung would say, "?Por que no los dos?" The more I study and grow in appreciationof all the traditions in the Church (Sacramental, Evangelical, and Pentecostal), the more I see it as both/and rather than either/or.
Okay, so question: on the topic of angels, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, do we all have guardian angels? Furthermore, is one's guardian angel ONLY ever assigned to you, or when die, do they receive a new assignment? (ie. a new human). EVEN FURTHER down the rabbit hole, when creation is renewed and perfected, what about the guardian angels? Do they all retire in the Bahamas or something? (Obviously I'm kidding, but I am curious what a guardian angels role is once it no longer has to "guard".)
About God's Second Coming, this time in the human appearance of each one of us: "Those who are already spiritual, and those who are still carnal have You made;" for so the Son Himself says, "Your Eyes have seen My imperfect being. That which is imperfect in My body, Your eyes have seen." ~St. Augustine, Sermon 85 § 6. Those who don't believe God has appeared as human in this world don't want us to realize God is also now appearing in this world in human appearance, in this case as each one of us: “This is the work in which we may be doing the works of Christ, for even our very believing in Christ is the work of Christ. It is this He works in us, not certainly without us.” ~St. Augustine, Homilies on John, Tractate 71 (John 14:10-14) "I will restore you to yourself, when I shall have restored you unto Me." ~St. Augustine, Sermon 73 on the New Testament "He rightly returns to himself, because he departed from himself. For he who returns to God restores himself to himself, and he who departs from Christ rejects himself from himself." ~St. Ambrose, Catena Aurea, Luke 15:17 "Blessed be God, for so bountifully providing for us that He even bestows on us His very Self." ~St. John of Avila, Finding Confidence in Times of Trial
To make it very simple, they have lost IMMENSE amount of influence, but not all. God, as before the Victory of Christ, has allowed this, so that we may be turned towards Him by seeing the evil that exists without Him. Defeated, but not vanquished. (YET.)
In a sense they are forced to finish a chess match they've already lost, only going through the motions without any hope for victory or meaningful accomplishments, now the match is for the victor and his audience, the opponent is just a backdrop.
When David killed Goliath, victory was won but the fighting continued. "When the Philistines saw that their hero was dead, they turned and ran. Then the men of Israel and Judah surged forward with a shout and pursued the Philistines to the entrance of Gath When the Israelites returned from chasing the Philistines, they plundered their camp." God is giving us a means to glory. He invites us to fight the good fight, to share Christ's suffering and his resurrection.
any point of a symbolic analysis of a new series Y the Last Man, just watched the first episode, dont know what to make of it? basic plot some bug kills all men apart from 1 (I think)
In orthodoxy what happens to the record of my sins? How are my sins dealt with by christ if the element of substitution is not in the picture? Christus victor helps me understand the gospel but so does substitutionary atonement
Only the Devil keeps a list. We are asked to repent (turn to God) and to love and 'love covers a multitude of sins' 1 Peter 4:8. Christ has trampled down death by death and brought life to those in tombs. That is us, and that is Orthodoxy; the embrace of life and the change from glory into glory.
Have you talked to Jewish rabbi and Jewish scholar that you might incorporate Gematria in symbology and typology that you may find the accurate insight about the code of creation?
What about the wound of Original Sin? Didn't St Anthony have that "fatal flaw"? Can one not synthesise the best insights of psychotherapy with reality of demons - as the various levels of Catholic Exorcisms have for generations (and see the contemporary UnBound book and ministry, of Neil Lozano et al.
“Christ is the only man to overcome the barrier erected by Satan. He dies in order to avoid participating in the system of scapegoats, which is to say the satanic principle. After his resurrection, a bridge that did not exist before is established between God and the world; Christ gets a foothold in the world through his own death, and destroys Satan's ramparts. His death therefore converts satanic disorder into order and opens up a new path on which human beings may now travel. In other words, God resumes his place in the world, not because he has violated the autonomy of man and of Satan, but because Christ has resisted, triumphed over Satan's obstacle.” ― René Girard
I'm late to the discussion, but I'll ask anyway. If saints become angels, do bad people become demons? For example, maybe Hitler still acts on the world as the principality of excess purity or something. Perhaps Stalin acts as the principality of control.
Thanks Fr. And Mr. Pageau; how about one on the UFO conspiracy/ies? Fallen angels and the Nephilim and everything. Thatd be beneficial as well. Glory to God!
Serious question (and I’m not trying to be a smart ass): How can you possibly believe that the origin of death is to be found in the failings of two human parents when 1) We know through science (public revelation that is open to all) that the genetic diversity of Homo sapiens cannot possibly be traced to just a single pair? 2) We know that death has been inextricably woven into multicellular life for the last 3.5 billion years? And 3) we know that behaviors and mindsets that we call sin (selfishness, promiscuity, deception, rage, etc) are inherited from our animal ancestors because they were necessary for survival. As beautiful as the story might be of a cosmic battle against death, ultimately won in the resurrection of Christ, it really doesn’t seem to match the world of history (geological, biological, or anthropological). And until you can tell a Christian story that actually approaches these realities, people will 1) reject your story as irrelevant, premodern nonsense and 2) be justified in doing so.
As as believer in the Christian creation myth, I agree that you are absolutely correct that Christianity isn’t compatible with scientific materialism (e.g evolution as an explanation of the origin of species, big bang , “multiverses,” etc). In my opinion, people who attempt to harmonize (a “theistic” evolution) have no basis for doing so- they’re just picking and choosing what they like from it. I disagree that you claim to know these things, however, through “science.” When I think “science” I think of something that can be observed, tested and replicated in the present. When you apply something observed in the present (e.g. a half life of carbon) and then project it into the past to make a prediction about the past that you can never actually test and confirm, you’ve moved beyond science into philosophy, science’s mother.
'We're not our evil thoughts, we don't have fatal flaws. It's the demons who are attacking us with them.' Ok but isn't being the sort of creation that can be seduced by demons ... sort of along the lines of a fatal flaw? I cant say I follow the logic here.
they define terms in unfamiliar way and incorrectly i think. Monotheism is is simply the belief that there is only one spirit with no beginning or end who is greater than all these other spiritual beings(including Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit), often called the 'Most High', and ties in to the first of the ten commands. individualism is simply the belief in inalienability, and ties in to monotheism, basically that there is one law from one God and there is no partiality. individualism was a major improvement in western society, which had previously been more similar to communism, which does not see an individual but a group that is a body that needs to be managed like trees.
Yes, there's many flaws with Western articulations of the Atonement.. but there's a temptation to aim at low hanging fruit as well. First and foremost, we MUST learn to differentiate Penal Substitution (Calvin) from Vicarious Satisfaction (St. Anselm and the broader West) -- their conflation is part of the latter's less than stellar welcome within the East. At its best, the Anselmian "Satisfaction model" doesn't have to be trite and hollow, but can be understood as merely another way of framing the cosmic drama, a variation on Christus Victor (rather than a contradiction) and most significantly -- a theory fully compatible with Orthodox theology. This doesn't have to be either/or (Sin as fatal flaw OR cosmic struggle with death and demons), but can be both/and; two facets of the bigger picture. David Bently Hart's interpretation of St. Anselm ("A Gift Exceeding Every Debt") is one of if not the best treatments of Vicarious Satisfaction. An interpretation which I regard as my own view of the Atonement.
My protestant teacher gave me an article by Tim Keller that said, ""Simon Gathercole distills a three-point outline that both Paul and the Synoptic writers held in common. (See “The Gospel of Paul and the Gospel of the Kingdom” in God’s Power to Save, ed. Chris Green Apollos/Inter-Varsity Press, UK, 2006.) He writes that Paul’s good news was, first, that Jesus was the promised Messianic King and Son of God come to earth as a servant, in human form. (Rom. 1:3-4; Phil. 2:4ff.)Second, by his death and resurrection, Jesus atoned for our sin and secured our justification by grace, not by our works (1 Cor. 15:3ff.) (Col. 2:13-15) and at his return he will complete what he began by the renewal of the entire material creation and the resurrection of our bodies (Rom 8:18ff.)"first, that Jesus was the promised Messianic King and Son of God come to earth as a servant, in human form. (Rom. 1:3-4; Phil. 2:4ff.)Second, by his death and resurrection, Jesus atoned for our sin and secured our justification by grace, not by our works (1 Cor. 15:3ff.) Third, on the cross Jesus broke the dominion of sin and evil over us (Col. 2:13-15) and at his return he will complete what he began by the renewal of the entire material creation and the resurrection of our bodies (Rom 8:18ff.) Is this not a more full Gospel than the one the Father has shown us?
Overall, I liked it very much. I was a bit disappointed that Fr Damick misrepresented a passage out of Judges as pre-flood to justify his hatred of individualism. (If I'm mistaken and there is another similar verse in the pre-flood context please correct me.) The whole point of Theosis as I understand it is for INDIVIDUALS to join with God in communion. I think attacking individualism is counterproductive to a conversation about how we can bring back the full narrative of Christ. That said I'm still likely to buy his book after I finish Religion of the Apostles.
How is “Sons of God” an order of angels? That seems like a leap to me. Angels are not the “original saints.” They’re angels. Angels and humans are two distinct categories.
Old Testament uses it to describe angels. Job 38:7 is the clearest off the top of my head. Depending on interpretation, some would also say Genesis 6. I’m sure there’s more...
God waking God is funny, Secular history and looking outside yourself is classic theology. Divine Allegory not seen in you will Wake you up and can't judge anymore. Imagination is God in man not outside in churches.
Also the idea that serious pagans do drugs is a lie. Ask any Dharmic Archarya if doing drugs or alchohol is part of the practice… and then answer is no.
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God bless Norm Macdonald
Check out Norms thoughts on God and atheism, christianity etc. You can just enter those words into youtube search bar. If you love Norm, and Christianity, I think you’ll enjoy his thoughts.
Death seems like a real jerk
A norm comment has the most likes on this video…what the h?
I didn’t even know he was sick
That was a terribly short 52 minutes. Sir Jonathan, Father Andrew- listening to the two of you speak, both combined and in your various separate endeavors, has improved my life by 90%, at least. Glory to God, you are both a gift to the Holy Orthodox Church.
Amen, Amen, Amen! 💜☦️💜
Are you American?
Father is pro gay and pro abortion. He's a fraud. Why do you sell Angela Doll Carlson's books on your website? She's pro abortion and thinks women should be ordained.
A talk with Fr Damick right after a livestream with Jay Dyer is a great joining of opposites in itself, good work Jonathan haha
Oh thank Goodness. I needed to be reminded im not fatally flawed. I accept agency, but I struggle against something that wants me broken, its not me that seeks brokenness.
My copy of your book is due to come in the mail any day now! As a Protestant convert to Orthodoxy, so much of the Scriptures make more sense to me now…..and more importantly, I see salvation now as the Apostles taught it. So.Very.Happy.To.Be.Orthodox. ❤️☦️❤️
Dido!
Yah yah yah yah yah!!!!!!!!!
These two (along with two Fr Stephen's (De Young and Freeman)) got me through 2020. So thankful for these men.
Can you tell me more about Freeman? I have not heard about him.
@@petarjovanovic1481 Fr Stephen Freeman has a podcast and blog called "Glory to God" through Ancient Faith Ministries. Following him is what introduced me to Jonathan originally, since they spoke at a conference together a few years back.
@@SteveBedford Thanks. I will like it up on Spotify.
Amen, brother!
@jaffa 360 Pageau is more my style of crazy
Fr. Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy podcast was the very first Orthodox exposure I had back in 2011. I am so thankful for his ministry. May God protect and help him!
This book has been, and continues to be, extremely helpful for me in my journey into Christianity. Coming from a completely secular background I was first invited to a Protestant church and found that I could never figure out what they were talking about. Now I've come to the Orthodox Church and find things are coming into view. Thank you both.
I listen to these podcasts with the same excitement I listened to Harry Potter as a kid. 🤩
Father is pro gay and pro abortion. He's a fraud. Why do you sell Angela Doll Carlson's books on your website? She's pro abortion and thinks women should be ordained.
"Most of my writing comes from a sense of frustration."
Good to know I am not alone ;)
Looking forward to reading this one. Thank you both for your excellent work to remind us how cool the Bible is.
I will say that Father Andrew’s “Arise, O God” is an AMAZING intro to the gospels. If you want to go deeper then “Religion of The Apostles” or “The Unseen Realm” are great resources. However for anyone new to the faith that wants an understanding of some of the deeper concepts and implications of Jesus Christ’s incarnation, death and resurrection that are largely kind of “dismissed” in the west I’m not sure there is a better book than “Arise”. It was perfect for my wife who is curious but intimidated by scripture. Really one of the best books I’ve come across just because of its combination of simplicity, completeness and approachability.
I so badly want to see Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen do a podcast with Dr. Heiser!
@@jamesmoore464 I was thinking the same thing
“Reformation reduced gospel and we are using it in a pagan way.”
Genius perspective.
I’ve been hearing Father Stephen and Jonathan Pageau’s voices for several years now.
In podcasts and YT vids. Commenting on the FB.
Your voices were encouraging and instructive, inspiring the faith in my heart. This is what God does.
It is a treasure and a gift to be comforted in this disorienting time.
I'm evangelical protestant.About 4 yrs ago, I discovered Dr. Michael Heiser, an evangelical but a OT scholar and ancient langauges and societies etc. He has written books on the wider meaning of the Gospel and the falls and the powers in the heavenily realms. He believes in the cosmological view found in Deuteronomy and other parts of Scripture. Please understand that alot of protestants are waking up to this truth. Unseen Realm (Heiser book) has helped me see the bigger picture of who Jesus Christ and what he did by his death and resurrection and the heavenly realms, and yes his main topic in a good chuck of Unseen Realm is the sons of god and the Divine Council. I read the Bible now so differently.
th-cam.com/video/30QqmKX5vt8/w-d-xo.html
That’s a three hour podcast of Fr. Andrew and Fr. Stephen talking about the same exact thing that Dr. Heiser teaches.
As a Protestant I was able to understand some of it as well....even in my encounters with casting out demons or other phenomenon that happens revealing the Two Realms and their relationality...but the thing is and what Fr. Damick is stating is that the over all presentation of The Good News (Evangelion) has been reduced to a snippet of words that makes it individualized and denuded of it's intensely forceful meaning that engenders one to say "What must I do to be saved?"
I am now Orthodox though I should add!!
Bought a hard copy. Excited to hear this before i read it. As an Orthodox I think it’s interesting to see a lot of people kinda shrugging toward the ‘cosmic vision of Christ’ as the most sensible way in which the universe operates 😎
God bless!
So, the Gospels are:
1) an "incomprehensible joining of opposites" in Christ's death AND
2) the victorious declaration of a King vanquishing his enemies (all of them)
cool.
Great perspective for 12 stepping agnostic AAs thanks, I am buying your book!
I'm a protestant and love the book, such a blessing. I even have my pastor hooked on Fr.SdY's Whole Council of God podcast as I've been catching up on Amun Sul. Thanks for all you do.
So excited Orthodox Christianity.
So excited for this episode! Just bought Father’s book on Kindle and can’t wait to dive in. As a Catholic, I’m still dipping my toes into the Orthodox Church. Listening the Lord of Spirits has been instrumental in my journey into the faith.
You don't have to chose. Go to an Eastern Rite Catholic Church. I too am Catholic and love the Lord of Spirits podcasts and bought the book too!
th-cam.com/video/QMXSqqaa154/w-d-xo.html
Eastern Rite Catholics care very deeply about the dialogue between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Something I care deeply about as well. It is something close to my heart.
@C Yes. Thank you. we must speak out! It is not Christianity - it is Rome!
EVERY church has a cinder in it's eye, no exceptions. And every church especially has thousands of POORLY RESEARCHED "cinders". What is with this anonymous "C" person? Religious zealots are more hypocritical than democrats and republicans. What's worse is s/he COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT that Fr. Damick was making early in the video, that this is about Jesus Christ, not about winning points for your church/ego.
(... poorly researched by those who hate them, that is. Nothing expresses Christ's love like hatred and demonization of others, right?)
This is so helpful about the attacks in the thought realm, and the worry that one is fatally flawed. It's always good to know that this battle is real, and that this is one of its manifestations. Songs of praise help combat it too. God bless, and all glory to Jesus Christ, our King and our God.
Mind blowing 🤯 ive only ever known the western view. Its like a whole new view.
That’s more true than you know! It’s new to you at this point, and you also will discover its “wholeness” in ways that will blow your mind.
The traditional western view is practically the same, hence for example why Christ is carrying a banner of victory with a red cross at his Resurrection in western sacred imagery, just a small example of the 'Evangelion' announcement.
@@Xanaseb and the eschatological differences? Why did anselm have to create a whole new mechanism of salvation...
@@papercut7141 Sorry, I am unfortunately not well versed in Anselm. I presume you refer to his teaching of atonement for our sins by Christ's sacrifice on the cross?
As for eschatological differences, could you enlighten me on what you mean there?
God bless
@@Xanaseb well I definitely don't want to pretend to be a scholar on him myself, yeah I was just referencing his theory of atonement centered around satisfying an infinite honor debt to God for sin, which Christ's sacrifice appeased. Sparing us wrath. From that you can see the seeds of the east/west divide sprouting, which they talked about in the vid. Sin is externalized as essentially a legal problem for man(also reflected in the western conception of original sin), which we cannot in any way free ourselves from. Any concept of theosis or capacity for man to become divine is downplayed or ignored, if not actively resisted, in favor of a penitential, guilt-ridden, self flagellating culture which took root. This bears fruit also in the doctrine of purgatory, which even more focuses the western mind on their guilt, the wrath of God, and the weight of their sins. At the same time, you can see the seeds forming of a subtly self-centered desire to simply release your debts to the creator instead of joining him in loving sonship. Seeds that sprout fully in modern protestant notions of salvation, which the vid also mentions. Just with a lot of the meat, like purgatory, cut out from the middle.
Anselm's theory also, i think, began the change in how we relate to demons. He probably didn't see it this way himself, but this focus on the legal nature of salvation seems to have been a seed of the reduction of Satan's agency in this whole cosmic game being played. It really shrunk the window we were looking through, where the older ransom theory (which the east still holds to) was predicated on this spiritual battle, because the entire reason our souls were enslaved to the demonic was because of our capacity to give them away. And if we can give them away, through Christ we can turn them back right. So theosis, heavily resisted in the west, and other doctrines flow back through
I should stop. There are many other points of friction between the worldviews, in iconography, with the nature of theosis/saints, more on the way sin and death interact with us, differences in the sacramental vision and treatment of "symbol." There's a tendency I think in the west to de-mythologize a lot of our religion, overemphasize philosophy and logic. And it blinds us to certain things
Phenomenal conversation. Thank you for the upload. It really helped me understand things that i didn't know.
Ohhh YES, tremendous to see you and Fr. Andrew do an episode together. Love his podcasts!
Wow!!! What a pod cast!! The end especially is absolutely spot on to what I see going on in the world. I will buy this book immediately! Thanks 🙏
Loved Fr. Damick!!!! I ordered it this morning and then saw that Jonathan was interviewing Father. Hurrah!
Anyone looking to reconcile this mythic language with the secular culture we live in should consider reading Walter Wink. His trilogy on "the Powers" is a perfect companion to the Lord of Spirit's podcast and has made translating spiritual language much easier when speaking with a culture shaped by a materialist worldview.
Just guessing, but does he talk about demons in terms of unresolved trauma, ideology, gaslighting and ideas like that?
For instance, in Mark, the devil in the Syrophoenecian woman's daughter is cleansed when the woman affirms that she is deserving of spiritual food. By saying this she broke the spell of inferiority she had accepted.
I feel like this kind of talk is true and the only likely way to make Christianity seem relevant again to a lot of lost people.
@@jamesdewane1642 He does stuff like that, but also a lot more. He takes it to a lot of levels I never would have thought of.
This reminded me of Dr. Michael Heiser's work. Not that I'm an expert or anything, but he calls attention to similar ideas and points.
I am so impressed by Heiser. Just devouring everything online!
What a pleasant surprise to see Vytis there in the background. Best of wishes from Lithuania!
That part about the implication of the bog in Beowulf was so cool!
Best line “… and you know whatever [church] has the best babysitting”
I just bought it on audible & seems like a short book. Been trying to figure out what the gospel is so that I may proclaim him. I liked "How God Became King" by NT Wright
N.T. Wright is great.
I'm an atheist, and I have a strong aversion to religion (all of them) but watching your videos interpreting these fables and lengends is pretty interesting! Keep it up man!
Wow what a lame passive aggressive comment.
Fr Andrew Damick the Giant of AFR
I just ordered the Book last week. It should be here soon. I’m very much looking forward to it
That's what I was always pointing out - if Christianity was against books and against knowledge as it is depicted nowadays by some, there was nothing easier for them to just stop re-writing ancient books, any books. We (well, most of the critics) don't realize how much is preserved by Christian scribes.
First! Lol Can't wait to listen to this!
Good talk guys. Thank so much!
Glad to hear I can still respond to totalitarianism!
YES! Father Spyridon Bailey and a few online are speaking out very boldly about it.
Amazing! Thanks to you both!
Thanks
Bought it and I'm going to read it 👍🏻
As a reformed christian. We do study the different ways there are of reading the gospel. We say that all of them, including Christus Victor, the one you are exalting above the others, are what the gospel mean. However ee emphasise the personal aspect of reconciliation by the atoning sacrifice as it is taught in every single letter in one way or another. I think important not to speak superficially of other traditions and exalt yours as the right one.
Love what’s said at 50:00!!
Man, so much good stuff. It’s been problematic to me for a while how evangelizing by trying to sell someone “the gospel” seems like a sales pitch and almost treating people like they’re your personal project. I was saying to someone the other day how it almost seems like in evangelicalism you have “the gospel” sold as the ultimate thing and relationship with God, your neighbor, and others as secondary to it. Once you have your get out of jail free card, what’s left to do. It does seem to come down to pistis vs gnosis
Fr. Andrew's an Alpha my god what a man
As an amateur evolutionary biologist (I'm a father of two kids) I think its the playground battlefield that makes us better for the next-gen
Just started following you today Jonathan, after watching the Bee episode. (Commented there as well.) I'm queuing this up for later today, but I'm anticipating some cosmic geography talk here! I'm giving a talk next month that get into the whole thing, with spiritual rebellion and it's impact on humanity, the gospel and the ushering in of the kingdom, and God taking back the nations. That 8th verse in Psalm 82 made more sense to me when I started studying the whole thing, (and the whole psalm for that matter) and of course caught my eye when I saw this video title. Maybe I'll have to read this book as well. Looking forward to it!
Michael Heiser its the first guy to unveil this truth. Its there in every branch of Christianity, but once you actually comprehend it and see it in reality directly in front of your face it clicks. Children will get it, then when you grow up it sounds wacky, then if you fully develop and genuinely seek the truth you will re find it.
Fr Andrew Damick, why is Abbott Tryphon’s blog not available on AFR now? Does it have to do with him speaking out about the jab and citing St Paisios?
Yes, that's why. Opposing the Antichrist is too political, apparently.
@@charlesblerzbo1616 I HATE THE ANTI CHRIST AHHHHHHHHH
Ephesians 6:12 is NOT discussed enough. Investigating the meaning is what began my journey from Reformed beliefs to the Catholic Faith, the Body that has been most able to unseat the defeated demons still holding pagans in their grip throughout the world.
And these same demons are exploiting the many divisions that they have sown in the Body of Christ.
I pray for Christian unity if it is His Will.
It’s also the body that seems most infested with them…
@@joshf2218 Christianity has always had it's moments. Once upon a time, almost the entire Church woke up to discover most of them were Arian Heretics.
Don't let the ebb and flow get you down. Don't let it make enemies of your fellow believers. As Christ said when the Apostles were stopping outsiders from doing battle with demons in Christ's name. "Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us".
33:57... Referencing the mythologies inside of native American belief systems I would really really like to hear more on this I am half Hopi which is a very old native American culture there are many stories in there that I have began to see symbolism in as I've been listening to Jonathan there's a chance that cultures have touched before and some of the symbolism has crossed over
Many years ago, I took a dive into Hopi mythology. I loved the Pahana stories, and the idea that there was a waiting for the return of the lost white brother. Very interesting stuff.
I pray I am not making an inane TH-cam comment, lol.
To be succinct, whether you believe in the evolutionary model or are a young earth creationist or put your faith in something in between, all cultures have their roots in cultures past, which also devolved or evolved (however you want to think about it) from earlier cultures, and could be traced back to a primordial culture, whether an emergent evolutionary community or from the line of Noah. All cultures were one at some point in history. Hopefully, I haven't strayed too far from the matter.
Sincerely,
Steven
Check out HE WALKED THE AMERICAS
What symbolism do you know of that crosses over in the two? I'd be really interested to know.
I agree there's a chance the cultures have touched and shared symbolism. There is also a chance that people everywhere have access to and may be guided by the same spirit of truth.
Is it possible that God is resourceful enough to use modalities other than the bible to speak to people? (Of course!)
Peace, brother!
Jesus loves you.
Doxamoot was great! If you like Tolkien you should go!
Also Enoch and Eärendil are totally being preserved in Ethiopia.
Thank you
Great talk which inspired me to buy Fr Andrew’s book. It is a brilliant perspective or explanation that provides simple and amazing insight. Talking symbolism for a moment, every time I see the gay flag I see an upside down rainbow. That is with the colours of the most base elements at the top and those of highest spiritual significance at the bottom (reference the ascending colours of chakras in eastern philosophies and their significance). So it seems apparent to me the inverted rainbow flag either deliberately or unwittingly portrays the worship of the most base (sexual) energies above the worship of higher, more rarified (closer to God) energies. Coincidence or not?
I keep anticipating a piece of paper to slide out of the printer. 🖨
The Bible is the story of the salvation of man by the sacrifice of the Son of God.
Herald:
Evangelion! I come in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
The only begotten Son of God, who offered his life as a sacrifice in order to redeem man.
You may freely accept this gift or reject it at your own everlasting peril.
He has a point about the sales pitch thing, but my counter would be that most of the TH-cam Orthodox Christian’s were Protestant first. They came to Christ from a Protestant background. Which I find interesting
I'm from an American Restoration Movement background, which is technically evangelical, but I don't know anyone from that group that would disagree at all with anything here. Reformed folks maybe, but not us.
Right-until you start getting into historicity, sacramentalism, ecclesiology…
@@nuzzi6620 I'd love to see a proper conversation between two educated exemplars of each. I want to know what would happen if a Restoration guy was presented with early Church precedent for those things, since the whole Restoration idea is 1st Century Christianity imitation.
Did you read "Religion of the Apostles" by Fr. Stephen DeYoung?
@@isaiahkerstetter3142 Started it and about halfway through. It's good.
At what point do we just say "In order to be Christian, one must be Ancient"?
Well. That’s what social evolutionists would say.
It’s a religion of the axial age and henceforth requires an axial age mind (what orthodox call their „phronema“) to fully understand it.
We moderns went through modernity, which some call a second axial age an therefore possess an evolved set of epistemic structures, henceforth we need different metaphysical claims to orient ourselves.
The problem with that view is at least twofold:
1. it leaves no room for the potential truth encapsulated in an ancient worldview.
2. it has no answer to the question of moral orientation
@@corvinrick3644 it is best not to let Marxism destroy your mind
"Paganism through the lens of individualistic gospel selling." 44:42
Dante makes the same point by choosing Virgil as his guide through hell and purgatory. To the modern person with false categories of reality, this seems very strange indeed. Dante had memorized The Aeneid by heart.
@36m, our stories - our ethnography, family history, society and cultural narratives dark-light, come into the church and clarified… whether medieval or postmodern…
This book is very much like the Unseen Realm by Michael Heiser. While he was not Orthadox, he is very much in line with this cosmic world view. Three falls of man: Genesis 3. Fall of the watchers Genesis 6 and Enoch and the tower of Babble
Also the Deuteronomy 32 world view
Are we not all pagan in some sense before we’re Christian? If we don’t understand that we may not understand the full gospel. Christ comes to us outside and brings us into his body
Best part is 43:07
Running around with matches, woohoo! :'D
Currently readding Marva Dawn’s Powers, Weakness, and the Tabernacling of God. Insight into this video that could be helpful for others?
Why you change the music intro? I like the older one personally.
Copyright claims from the performers and producers of the Rimsky-Korsakov Easter Overture recording
@@Xanaseb what a bunch of whiners.
Colossians 1. the transfer is from the 'domain of darkness' (the story of Homer) into the 'kingdom of the Son of God' , God's story! B & C
Who has the correct view of salvation: Evangelical Protestants or Orthodox Christians? As Father Stephen DeYoung would say, "?Por que no los dos?" The more I study and grow in appreciationof all the traditions in the Church (Sacramental, Evangelical, and Pentecostal), the more I see it as both/and rather than either/or.
Like he said it's not _wrong,_ just limited
Okay, so question: on the topic of angels, from an Orthodox Christian perspective, do we all have guardian angels? Furthermore, is one's guardian angel ONLY ever assigned to you, or when die, do they receive a new assignment? (ie. a new human). EVEN FURTHER down the rabbit hole, when creation is renewed and perfected, what about the guardian angels? Do they all retire in the Bahamas or something? (Obviously I'm kidding, but I am curious what a guardian angels role is once it no longer has to "guard".)
About God's Second Coming, this time in the human appearance of each one of us:
"Those who are already spiritual, and those who are still carnal have You made;" for so the Son Himself says, "Your Eyes have seen My imperfect being. That which is imperfect in My body, Your eyes have seen."
~St. Augustine, Sermon 85 § 6.
Those who don't believe God has appeared as human in this world don't want us to realize God is also now appearing in this world in human appearance, in this case as each one of us:
“This is the work in which we may be doing the works of Christ, for even our very believing in Christ is the work of Christ. It is this He works in us, not certainly without us.”
~St. Augustine, Homilies on John, Tractate 71 (John 14:10-14)
"I will restore you to yourself, when I shall have restored you unto Me."
~St. Augustine, Sermon 73 on the New Testament
"He rightly returns to himself, because he departed from himself. For he who returns to God restores himself to himself, and he who departs from Christ rejects himself from himself."
~St. Ambrose, Catena Aurea, Luke 15:17
"Blessed be God, for so bountifully providing for us that He even bestows on us His very Self."
~St. John of Avila, Finding Confidence in Times of Trial
Pitch: How can l get you into this gospel, today?!
How do the outside evil beings still have power if they were defeated?
To make it very simple, they have lost IMMENSE amount of influence, but not all.
God, as before the Victory of Christ, has allowed this, so that we may be turned towards Him by seeing the evil that exists without Him.
Defeated, but not vanquished. (YET.)
In a sense they are forced to finish a chess match they've already lost, only going through the motions without any hope for victory or meaningful accomplishments, now the match is for the victor and his audience, the opponent is just a backdrop.
When David killed Goliath, victory was won but the fighting continued.
"When the Philistines saw that their hero was dead, they turned and ran. Then the men of Israel and Judah surged forward with a shout and pursued the Philistines to the entrance of Gath When the Israelites returned from chasing the Philistines, they plundered their camp."
God is giving us a means to glory. He invites us to fight the good fight, to share Christ's suffering and his resurrection.
Because earthly time and heavenly time are different
Isnt this what Dr Michael Heiser has written about?
any point of a symbolic analysis of a new series Y the Last Man, just watched the first episode, dont know what to make of it? basic plot some bug kills all men apart from 1 (I think)
Nice
In orthodoxy what happens to the record of my sins? How are my sins dealt with by christ if the element of substitution is not in the picture? Christus victor helps me understand the gospel but so does substitutionary atonement
Only the Devil keeps a list. We are asked to repent (turn to God) and to love and 'love covers a multitude of sins' 1 Peter 4:8. Christ has trampled down death by death and brought life to those in tombs. That is us, and that is Orthodoxy; the embrace of life and the change from glory into glory.
Has it occurred to you the God can forgive without needing to punish someone?
Have you talked to Jewish rabbi and Jewish scholar that you might incorporate Gematria in symbology and typology that you may find the accurate insight about the code of creation?
What about the wound of Original Sin? Didn't St Anthony have that "fatal flaw"? Can one not synthesise the best insights of psychotherapy with reality of demons - as the various levels of Catholic Exorcisms have for generations (and see the contemporary UnBound book and ministry, of Neil Lozano et al.
“Christ is the only man to overcome the barrier erected by Satan. He dies in order to avoid participating in the system of scapegoats, which is to say the satanic principle. After his resurrection, a bridge that did not exist before is established between God and the world; Christ gets a foothold in the world through his own death, and destroys Satan's ramparts. His death therefore converts satanic disorder into order and opens up a new path on which human beings may now travel. In other words, God resumes his place in the world, not because he has violated the autonomy of man and of Satan, but because Christ has resisted, triumphed over Satan's obstacle.”
― René Girard
He just came right out and called it baby sitting. 😂😂😂 ... He's right though...
I'm late to the discussion, but I'll ask anyway. If saints become angels, do bad people become demons? For example, maybe Hitler still acts on the world as the principality of excess purity or something. Perhaps Stalin acts as the principality of control.
Thanks Fr. And Mr. Pageau; how about one on the UFO conspiracy/ies? Fallen angels and the Nephilim and everything. Thatd be beneficial as well. Glory to God!
Open-source spirituality.
Jonathan needs to turn his mic down compared to his guests, some of the resonances are painfully loud.
Serious question (and I’m not trying to be a smart ass): How can you possibly believe that the origin of death is to be found in the failings of two human parents when 1) We know through science (public revelation that is open to all) that the genetic diversity of Homo sapiens cannot possibly be traced to just a single pair? 2) We know that death has been inextricably woven into multicellular life for the last 3.5 billion years? And 3) we know that behaviors and mindsets that we call sin (selfishness, promiscuity, deception, rage, etc) are inherited from our animal ancestors because they were necessary for survival. As beautiful as the story might be of a cosmic battle against death, ultimately won in the resurrection of Christ, it really doesn’t seem to match the world of history (geological, biological, or anthropological). And until you can tell a Christian story that actually approaches these realities, people will 1) reject your story as irrelevant, premodern nonsense and 2) be justified in doing so.
As as believer in the Christian creation myth, I agree that you are absolutely correct that Christianity isn’t compatible with scientific materialism (e.g evolution as an explanation of the origin of species, big bang , “multiverses,” etc). In my opinion, people who attempt to harmonize (a “theistic” evolution) have no basis for doing so- they’re just picking and choosing what they like from it. I disagree that you claim to know these things, however, through “science.” When I think “science” I think of something that can be observed, tested and replicated in the present. When you apply something observed in the present (e.g. a half life of carbon) and then project it into the past to make a prediction about the past that you can never actually test and confirm, you’ve moved beyond science into philosophy, science’s mother.
Wow, great conversation guys ! A book I would highly suggest reading which would supplement these ideas is Michael Heisers "Reversing Hermon."
'We're not our evil thoughts, we don't have fatal flaws. It's the demons who are attacking us with them.'
Ok but isn't being the sort of creation that can be seduced by demons ... sort of along the lines of a fatal flaw? I cant say I follow the logic here.
they define terms in unfamiliar way and incorrectly i think. Monotheism is is simply the belief that there is only one spirit with no beginning or end who is greater than all these other spiritual beings(including Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit), often called the 'Most High', and ties in to the first of the ten commands. individualism is simply the belief in inalienability, and ties in to monotheism, basically that there is one law from one God and there is no partiality. individualism was a major improvement in western society, which had previously been more similar to communism, which does not see an individual but a group that is a body that needs to be managed like trees.
Yes, there's many flaws with Western articulations of the Atonement.. but there's a temptation to aim at low hanging fruit as well. First and foremost, we MUST learn to differentiate Penal Substitution (Calvin) from Vicarious Satisfaction (St. Anselm and the broader West) -- their conflation is part of the latter's less than stellar welcome within the East.
At its best, the Anselmian "Satisfaction model" doesn't have to be trite and hollow, but can be understood as merely another way of framing the cosmic drama, a variation on Christus Victor (rather than a contradiction) and most significantly -- a theory fully compatible with Orthodox theology. This doesn't have to be either/or (Sin as fatal flaw OR cosmic struggle with death and demons), but can be both/and; two facets of the bigger picture.
David Bently Hart's interpretation of St. Anselm ("A Gift Exceeding Every Debt") is one of if not the best treatments of Vicarious Satisfaction. An interpretation which I regard as my own view of the Atonement.
48:00 "the narrative of Paganism playing out under a Christian guise." 100%
My protestant teacher gave me an article by Tim Keller that said, ""Simon Gathercole distills a three-point outline that both Paul and the Synoptic writers held in common. (See “The Gospel of Paul and the Gospel of the Kingdom” in God’s Power to Save, ed. Chris Green Apollos/Inter-Varsity Press, UK, 2006.) He writes that Paul’s good news was, first, that Jesus was the promised Messianic King and Son of God come to earth as a servant, in human form. (Rom. 1:3-4; Phil. 2:4ff.)Second, by his death and resurrection, Jesus atoned for our sin and secured our justification by grace, not by our works (1 Cor. 15:3ff.) (Col. 2:13-15) and at his return he will complete what he began by the renewal of the entire material creation and the resurrection of our bodies (Rom 8:18ff.)"first, that Jesus was the promised Messianic King and Son of God come to earth as a servant, in human form. (Rom. 1:3-4; Phil. 2:4ff.)Second, by his death and resurrection, Jesus atoned for our sin and secured our justification by grace, not by our works (1 Cor. 15:3ff.) Third, on the cross Jesus broke the dominion of sin and evil over us (Col. 2:13-15) and at his return he will complete what he began by the renewal of the entire material creation and the resurrection of our bodies (Rom 8:18ff.)
Is this not a more full Gospel than the one the Father has shown us?
Overall, I liked it very much. I was a bit disappointed that Fr Damick misrepresented a passage out of Judges as pre-flood to justify his hatred of individualism. (If I'm mistaken and there is another similar verse in the pre-flood context please correct me.) The whole point of Theosis as I understand it is for INDIVIDUALS to join with God in communion. I think attacking individualism is counterproductive to a conversation about how we can bring back the full narrative of Christ. That said I'm still likely to buy his book after I finish Religion of the Apostles.
How is “Sons of God” an order of angels? That seems like a leap to me. Angels are not the “original saints.” They’re angels. Angels and humans are two distinct categories.
Old Testament uses it to describe angels. Job 38:7 is the clearest off the top of my head. Depending on interpretation, some would also say Genesis 6. I’m sure there’s more...
Second
One hundred eightieth
548th
God waking God is funny, Secular history and looking outside yourself is classic theology. Divine Allegory not seen in you will Wake you up and can't judge anymore. Imagination is God in man not outside in churches.
Christus Victor
Also the idea that serious pagans do drugs is a lie. Ask any Dharmic Archarya if doing drugs or alchohol is part of the practice… and then answer is no.