H&K 512 Old-School Tactical Shotgun
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2024
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In the late 1970s, H&K decided that it wanted to offer a tactical shotgun for the police and security market. Having no experience with shotgun manufacture, they turned to Franchi in Italy - for whom they already handled sales outside Italy. Franchi produced a gas-operated semiautomatic shotgun for HK, who brought in the parts and did the final assembly themselves, in order to legally identify the guns as H&K products. About 1500 were built, and most of these were sold to security agencies in Germany, Austria, Spain, and Portugal. A small remained of unsold ones were imported into the United States in the late 80 and early 90s, apparently between 250 and 350.
The most interesting element of the H&K 512 to me it the inclusion of an A&W Diverter as an OEM part. The Diverter changes the shot pattern from a circle to a roughly rectangular shape between 3:1 and 4:1 height to width. On the 512, the Diverter was mounted vertically, to create a tall and narrow pattern - that is, a pattern ideal for hitting a target without pellets straying onto potential hostages right next to the target.
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Just from the thumbnail my first thought was "German SPAS-12?". I am still kinda surprised that HK never tried a roller delayed semi-auto shotgun.
Maybe an Benelli M1.
The Mechanism...
Roller delayed shotgun sounds like fun
I'm down for a 12 gauge I can HK slap
@LabRat Knatz a lot of gas operated semis can be tuned to handle the whole range of 12 gauge. I have a Remington SP-453 which is actually a Baikal MP 153, it shoots light trap loads and full house 3 1/2 inch magnums without a hiccup.
In the words of Superintendent Chalmers: "UH! GOOD LORD WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THERE?"
What we wanted: Franchi Shotgun
What we got: Funky Shotgun
😄😄😄👍
Yeah, I heard it that way too :)
@@steveharvey6421 That's what my Rustington 870 is for.
That finish is preeeetty.
sooo prrettyyyyyy
@FBG K.O. bruh
@FBG K.O. 🤣👍
@FBG K.O. but Ian isn't German
I dunno... the reciver is.. okay, the barrel looks like my 870 express, and the choke is completely different.
Don't get me wrong, its handsome unit but I dunno about a nice finish
Man.... that's probabbly the prettiest shotgun that i have seem, the wooden cover gives it a good mix betwen old pump action and modern auto gas system.
Plus, it's not black and scary.
You can trust the Italians to come up with something pretty.
In muscle car terms, it's a "sleeper". I love it.
yeah, i love when guns have wood, especially if it designates which areas should and which shouldn't be touched/held onto
To be fair the only reason i like AK based firearms is the timber furnishings, same with this shotty aswel. It just looks nice.
"what if the bad guy has a hostage?" - I'd assume a shotgun would be a terrible idea lmao
Within about 15 yards it's feasible to knock someone's head off without collateral damage but it's not exactly easy so yeah, bad idea
What if you've got Slugs?
You don't understand the rules of hostage negotiations??? First rule shoot the hostage, but only if you are in Beslan
Generally shotguns would not be used much later than the breaching stage unless non lethal rounds were loaded
The fact this has a Diverter muzzle device installed says they were planning to use this as a primary weapon long after any breaching that may have been required. There's no need to optimize the pattern if it's mostly just an entry tool.
Tactical? Shotgun? H&K??? Good Lord, Ian, you bring us some amazing stuff. Thanks again, keep up the good work!
You heard Franchi, I heard Funky
Ian Said Both...
So we could play that funky music white boy
I cant unhear it anymore.😃
Well, the SPAS-12 WAS a pretty funky shotgun.
Designed by Bootsy Collins!!
Easily one of the most gorgeous shotguns I've ever seen. It kinda looks like an Auto-5 but with more "angular" lines and edges.
Auto 5 meets HK SL7
This is so pleasant to look at, the aesthetic is amazing
Thanks for the flashback! As a US Army Company Commander in Germany from 2000 to 2003, I had two of these in my EOD Company. They were intended to be mounted to our bomb disposal robot but they would not fit into the bracket (the bracket was designed for a Mossberg 5500 auto, which is what everyone back in the states had). So on my MTOE (list of authorized equipment) everyone except for my First Sargeant and I was assigned a M16. The First Sargeant and I issued pistols, so we would also carry one each HK 512. When we came down on orders to deploy to Kosovo we took them for the deployment, where they were quite handy, many interactions with the locals were defused just by their presence. Also one of my buddies on the deployment had his father ship him over a Clay Target Thrower, which helped us pass the time wile on deployment. We had a lot of fun shooting Skeet.
So, I take it, that HK partnered up with Franchi before Benelli came into the picture?
I have 2 of the M121’s (wood furniture) and they are truly amazing. My first, I bought in the late ‘80’s for $425. The 2nd I bought about 2013 for $1100!
They are flawless shooters.
Gotta love that HK touch.
My first thought was he was going to review the 121M1. I got one in the late 80's, when M1 Super 90's were available. I hope he gets the chance to review it. Kind of like an FN-FAL bolt/carrier on a shotgun. The only thing it can't do is cycle manually from the magazine, which really has little tactical value, but the Super 90 gives you that option. The two-piece steel/aluminum receiver was the basis for the Black Eagle field shotguns, paired with the rotating bolt like a Super 90. Kind of funny, as the steel lower was required for the FAL-type bolt lock to react against, and the Black Eagle does not use it.
They had a similar arrangement with Benelli. I have an HK marked Super Black Eagle. My dad bought around 1992-93.
I have an HK marked Benelli M1 riot gun that I bought from a prison guard. Came with the surefire forearm and the rifle sights.
My dad has one too! I have an SBE from 2002 or so that doesn't have the Hk marks
@@justthetip7136 around 2002 HK was using a different shotgun parts manufacturer 'fabarm' I think. They made some carbon fiber shotguns
@@randominternetuser2888 H&K has had relationships with just about every Italian firearms maker. Franchi, Beneli, FABARM, and I think they did with Beretta at a time.
Weird that this is basically the grandfather of the Benelli series of shotguns, but was manufactured by Franchi, who had their own auto shotgun in the SPAS 12!
Seems like this is fairly common, a company with good engineering gets their product bought by a larger company that flips the idea and makes bank on it with marketing and a different name.
I love my Spas 12. Still running since 1987. I have out a lot of low brass no. 7 through it. Ominous pump sound. Love the hook and top folding stock.
Well, I'd say the Father
Sjögren would be the grandfather lol
I wouldn't call it the grandfather of the Benellis as the Benelli SL-80 came out in 1978. The police/combat version was known as the 121M1. Arguably the fastest firing semiauto shotgun in the world (at least at the time). Love my 121M1!!
And SPAS 15
An Italian German alliance for the purposes of international expansion of presence, a great idea!
Hey, wait a second. . .
😁
LMAO
Well played sir, well played.
Where’s Japan?
What could possibly go wrong
Lol props to this comment. Best in the thread by far hahahah 😂
Seeing the H&K markings on the reciever kinda set me back, for some reason i didnt expect them to be so striking.
I'm more interested in Jeff. He seems like an interesting character.
Man I love forgotten weapons
Amen.
Feels like H&K's relationship with shotguns was like:
H&K: Hey, Franchi. You guys make great shotguns. How about we team up and we'll sell your products for you.
Franchi: Okay.
[Franchi's business took off and left]
H&K: Hey, Benelli. You guys make great shotguns. How about we team up and we'll sell your products for you.
Benelli: Okay.
[Benelli's business took off and left]
H&K: Hey FABARM...
Is "okay" the soy-based way of typing OK?
I think so.
@@tolpacourt is okay not ok?
@@tolpacourt your line of thinking is far more demonstrative of your mindset than theirs.
@@tolpacourt Okay is correct, OK is for twitter brains that can't handle extra characters.
@@tolpacourt what kind of fucking advanced brainrot do you have to have to assign the use of one form over the other of a word like "OK/okay" to sociopolitical affiliations
For the most part, a really gorgeous shotgun. The wood and its texture combine beautifully with its metal parts!
Really, really beautiful!
Wow! Truly a forgotten weapon from such a renowned company.
I like how not all but many of these types of guns ( ones intended for a certain use that are not utilized ) when leftovers are present some of these overseas company’s are like
“ what do we do with these “ ?
“ send them to the US , someone will buy them “
That's just a cool looking shotgun. Clean, sleek lines and profile with some understated flair in both the steel and wood elements (the gusset on the trigger guard, the swept post of the front sight, the banner-shaped checkering on the foregrip and stock, the little crescent scallop out of the rear of the forward grip, the continuation of the rear stock lines up into the receiver lines). A cohesive design with a good blend between a modern and classic look.
It could work as a scifi-retro design, or as a futuristic looking weapon from a previous era.
Franchi still has something like this in their law enforcement arms catalog. Franchi makes high quality products.
I love a nice fighting shotgun. In my career we used 870's - yawn. At home I repurposed an Ithica M 37, steel shot made it obsolete for ducks. I have been thinking about a Brake, now I see that it would be col to have a diverter, in theory it would match the vertical orientation of the threat. Nice choice Ian.
Beautiful! Dear Santa...
While not as gorgeous, and also not tactical the browning A5 has some similar aesthetics, and you can actually find one
Deer Santa will immediately put you on the Naughty list for even thinking about having a shotgun.
@ DR Bunny- good thing he’s just a fictional character, like “ president joe biden”, who actually advocates a shotgun; although it should be a double, propped up beside the record player
@@roadthrillz8111 You're missing the pun, genius. DEER Santa.
@@slaytanicsabbath yea in Italy we also made some shotguns based on that one.
One of the most famous is the franchi 48AL
Great one
Just a beautiful shotgun. I really love how the HK firearms that are made with wood stocks look. The font of the lettering, the colour of the wood and the machining of the steel or aluminum receivers just go together in a very unique manner that immediately betrays itself as an "HK" product. Even though Franchi made the parts, HK obviously designed the exterior look.
Ian reads the comments. The man knows who a lot of his audience is. When something that, to the general public, is as obscure as 922R is used as an explanation!
Great video! Take Care and be safe Builders, John
Glad to hear the CAWS has made your to-do list. When I read a description of that particular unicorn, I couldn't quite understand it, and my first instinct was to hunt for your video on it. I was most saddened that there wasn't one, and I live in hope that you can get access to that little bit of history.
WW1 shotguns: "You couldn't live with your failure, and where did that bring you? Right back to me."
Yeah we kind of Stubborn
Shotguns are kinda dead now, apart from sports. There's a reason HK dosen't produce shotguns today.
Edit: do it turns out shotgun fans seem to deny reality a bit. I'm sure it's a fun weapon, but it's not really practical.
Military: most battles are fought over ranges where a shotgun just wouldn't hit anything.
Police: the exact opposite is the case. The last thing you want as someone protecting civilians is a weapon which hits everything in its general direction.
Hunters: maybe for really big animals like bears(or hard-to-hit birds), but you wouldn't want to operate a kilo of lead out of your meat before you cook it.
For almost every application a shotgun could be used fore, there's another weapon which does it better.
military: bruh
Hunters: bruh
Home defense-minded people: bruh
Shop owners: bruh
Armed transit: bruh
Farmer: bruh
@Ted Hubert Pagnanawon Crusio not many countries give shotguns to their police forces, and the ones which do give like every fifth PD one gun. SMGs are way more common.
@@dirtpounder lol, Completely agree.
FYI: GMBH roughly means (private) limited liability company.
/N means „am Neckar“. That’s the river on which Oberndorf is located.
Ian doesn't often bring us shotguns, but they're great when he does
This is basically what happened to the doom shotgun, you don’t aim up or down because it doesn’t matter lol
I suddenly want to see a mod that changes the shotgun from not having any vertical spread, to not having any *horizontal* spread.
Though I suspect it'd make it feel a lot like the SNES port's shotgun, which just fired slugs basically.
I expected the Franchi, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping to find out there was some wacky roller-delayed blowback 12 gauge lying around the grey room somewhere...
I have the hunting gun version of that shotgun. It's my grandpa's old Franchi Prestige. My grandpa bought it in 1986 and it still runs perfectly. I always tell my hunting buddies that it is the most reliable shotgun I have
A (perhaps interesting, perhaps silly) thought about the diverter barrel is it could be utilized in either direction of spread by essentially gangster-holding the weapon sideways. Maybe unorthodox but it could make for a tactic to use by someone with a more advanced experience in controlling the weapon. Or maybe just a cool movie scene where the vertical spread is narratively established early and then the hero spins the weapon sideways to flip from targeting individual enemies to dealing with a crowd of foes in a desperate situation.
Oooh, that _would_ be a good addition to Ian's scene in John Wick 4. (Yes, there seriously is a petition for Ian to be in the movie as the off-grid sommelier)
I missed one of these at a gun show in the early 2000's. Seller wanted 750, turned down 725. When I got home and saw in the Blue Book just how rare they were I was devastated.
Sleep: using single projectile weapons like rifles to minimize collateral civilian damage and casualties
Woke: tall rectangle of buckshot
Wow mind blown
You’ve fallen for my trap card!
*Man shaped bullet*
@@-YELDAH I raise you with:
Man-with-a-gunshot-wound-shaped slug.
That's the Reichstangle way!
@@Kackpuh kristallnacht
Never thought I’d really want a shotgun, but now I know I need this one. Gorgeous piece of machinery right there. The Italians really design some nice stuff.
Nice. Never seen one. Beautiful condition and great grain on the stock. The diverter does make sense. As far as i know, European police are not big on shotguns, but u need them in the mix. Our local small county SWAT team has always had a Benelli man on the entry team. The adjacent small yowm to mine has Benellis in their cars, mainly because they got rifles late. Everyone else has 870's, mostly with rifle sights, and AR's.
Maybe not for the civilian market, but a 5-12 refitted to have a pistol grip and top mounted rails for sights sounds really good to have in a modern setting. Also if a newer model of the 5-12 was made, the combination of a pistol grip and a left or right sided fore grip would allow the operator to twist the gun for whichever firing pattern they wanted from the default vertical shape muzzle. It's hard not to gush over modernizing good H&K (or partners) designs.
Please don’t ever stop doing what you do Ian you are preserving firearm history and making it accessible to everyone
The fit and finish looks excellent on that!!
If you didn't know already, Franchi also made the SPAS-12 and 15
I did not that's cool as hell.
Aka the shotgun used in Jurassic Park and many videogames (for those unaware)
We have to get Ian into the original Grey Room in Oberndorf!
Panzermuseum Munster also has a G11 in their collection.
Fairly sure Ian has been to the Grey Room.
@@FirstDagger Ian has done a video on the G11
@@killernoob756 ; There can never be enough G11 videos though. Also I think they have a different "variant" than the one Ian made the video on. At-least the foregrip is different.
@@killernoob756 Only the small one in the US. That's why I wrote the original in Oberndorf. The HK company HQ in Germany has all the unicorns like the CAWS or the WSG-2000
Strangely, this is, I think, the 4th video in a row where Ian hasn't broken down/field stripped the weapon.
So basically, you hit everything from crotch to skull cap with only a couple of flyers.
Ian focused too much on the collateral damage issue.
I still have my "H&K", from the mid-80's. It was a model 121-M1. I think it was made by Benelli and marked as a H&K. Always loved it, still do. :-)
HK needed a shotgun
Me: Call the Italians
Ian: HK called Franchi
Me: Wow, what a surprise, lol
I mena, HK and shotguns was basically them letting one italian manufacturer after another use their name, right up until they had enough of a reputation themselves and HK went to look for another italian manufacturer to do it again.
😂😂
with today's eating habits, a horizontal alignment would be indicated.
"Diverter is adjustable 90°, with 2 positions: Ethiopian and American"
I've been hoping that you were sitting on a CAWS video, keeping it for the rainiest of rainy days. Oh well. Great video, as always.
That thing looks to be in great condition.
That is a *very* pretty shotgun. Something about the proportions are just perfect.
cool diverter...my second favorite thing A&W make right behind their root beer .... yeah I know I'll see myself out lol
Looks like a gentleman’s tactical shotgun much like a Reising Model 50 is a gentleman’s submachine gun. Nothing prettier than wood and steel!
This is literally the gun worlds version of, “Hey, can I borrow your homework?...”
Being able to move the diverter between horizontal & vertical would be a handy feature. Thanks Gun Jesus.
The corporate merry go round you describe is the wild whirl branding and brandizing have become in many industries- guns, cars, appliances, TVs. The brand you see, the brand whose standards you chose, is not really the creator of the thing you bought. Always a great time and learned something neat!FR
It's beautiful. The kind of thing I'd love to have up on the wall just to look at. Heck, I'd frame it and put it behind UV-coated glass.
It needs a slightly longer barrel, as it looks kind of asymmetric. Then it will be great.
H&K really do bring the pretty.
What some guys may not know: In germany there are no shotguns in police service. Standard pattern for a patrol car was the officer´s personal sidearm, mostly a 9mm pistol and two MP5. Since every state in germany is responsible for its own police (during the cold war the federal police was more of a paramilitary), they all had different pistols from all known manufacturers. H&K initially developed the MP5 for the army to serve along the G3 and the army liked the idea of an SMG that would just handle like the rifle. When west germany was building its new Bundeswehr, the amount of SMGs needen was bigger than the production capacity. Add financial and political consideration and the army ended up with the UZI, which is designated as MP2 or MP2A1 in german service.
In earlier years you could find some other SMGs in police use in germany, but the MP5 is the thing you will find everywhere today. Some states are now adding new weapons and even assault rifles to the equipment, but H&K`s "little black one" is still the sign for "we are the police and we mean business" today. It became so iconic that in the 1970`s even a left wing terrorist organisation used it as a logo. They called themselves the RAF (red army faction), but instead of an AK, their symbol was a red star with an MP5. Fun fact: Some left-wing groups merged together in the late seventies to form a legal political party. This year, they have a good chance to win the elections for the federal parliament.
That’s got to be the prettiest riot shotgun ever made.
Back in the 90's, I was able to nab an HK/Benelli in one swoop. I was able to pick up a Benelli M3 imported by HK. But, even back then HK hated you just as much as they hate you today.
"they had FUNKY..."
...oh, Franchi!
*giggled*
That thing looks solid and beautifully finished. Beautiful piece!
I remember this gun from Door Kickers: Action Squad.
This made Breacher way too fun.
That bolt and the magazine extension look IDENTICAL to a SPAS-12. I would wager they're interchangeable.
Nothing like a sharp looking wood stock...and the duckbill makes total sense, not only for concern for unintended consequences, but also to maximize the stopping power, more pellets across the vertical silhouette of the target. German military /police knowledge meets quality commercial shotgun!
Peppering every inch of a guy from toe to head with buckshot has to be the funniest tactic for reducing civilian casualties
never been this early to a forgotten weapons' vid, keep up the good work ian!
Having a choke with a tight vertical pattern lends itself to breeches in tight quarters and hallways getting through doors..
My dad has this youth-sized Franchi 20 gauge, and it was such a great gun when I was like 10/11
It looks fantastic. Great design and finish.
Look at the finish on that grip... beautiful.
My old Franchi semi look has many similar features. Never knew H&K made them. Collectible now!
HK and Shotguns. A pairing I didn’t know I needed.
But you want it in your life.
Not to bring a virtual anecdote in to prove a point, but to back up the claim that the pattern "matches the profile of a standard human" we used to do a thing in Battlefield 4 that achieved this.
The Duckbill choke was available for the shotguns in that game, and indeed flattened the pattern out into a wide oval, but you rarely came across the kinds of situations that could take advantage of it. However, when combined with canted iron sights and the shotgun rolled along the barrel axis it basically turned the Duckbill's pattern from horizontal to vertical, and you'd get significantly more hits on target this way so long as you were decent at aiming for center mass.
IIRC it was the most effective mid-range choke in the game.
That fancy checkering gives you a little Better grip on the shotgun, so it makes sense at the time to have it, as opposed to a smooth, shiny finish that would be Slick with wet hands.
"Franchi parts with H&K fit and finish" kinda sounds like a luxury car of guns.
I never knew about diverter barrels until now. Thanks for teaching me something new!
I bought a HK Benelli M1 Super 90 in 1989. From the looks of it, HK was marketing the Franchi as a test bed for diving deeper into the shotgun market since the 512 was still in the marketplace through the mid-80's. I like the looks of the 512; I'm old school too. But I wonder, why did HK strike a deal with Benelli and opt for a recoil operated shotgun as opposed to the Franchi and a gas piston system? Yes, I still have the M1. But shooting it and, for instance, a Remington 11-87P with a direct gas system, the M1 can be hard on the shoulder continuously shooting magnum rounds, slugs, and buckshot than the 11-87P.
That sounds brutal. Aim at the waist, hit everything from chin to knees.
Side note: just personal preference, but when I see a milled receiver that has raised bumps from stamping and roll marking identification stuff, it makes me wonder the practical cost difference between milling the ID stuff so it looks nicer vs stamping that has some variability and a look of 'cheesy'.
That wood furniture looks sick
Awesome, I read about this on IMFDB and the info well was shallow. Thanks for making a vid on it.
So looks like a gorgeous trap shotgun but is patterned to kill and btw please throw slugs through it. Gotta love H&K
Gotta love hk for what? Not like they made it, just put their name on it..
Beautiful finish, finely checkered wooden stock. So Italian, just because you’re high speed doesn’t mean you can’t be elegant.
When you were going to show the rear sight I was expecting so see the typical HK drum sight
Maker of the Spaz 12 still one of the baddest shotguns ever.
there was a trick in bf4 where you could get a vertical oval pattern if you used the canted irons with a duckbill
If I'm only ever going to own one gun, this might be what I'd get.
Fun fact, they tried the reverse. Franchi tried to get the HK G41 to win the 1985 Italian request for a 5,56 gun to replace the BM-59. It failed, of course, because Beretta, but I'd love to see the documents about performance (considering that the other options were the winner, the frankly mediocre AR70, an Italian copy of the Galil and the M16 that never managed to get in for legal shenanigans with the Colt representative).
Off topic, my father has a HK/Benelli M1 super 90 12 gauge with a 3.5" chamber. He ordered it at a membership department store in 1988 called Gemco in Signal Hill ca.
And all the H&K 512 are out of the market, danks.
So nice, there isn't long introduction, with obnoxious music!
The fact that the choke extends to the same length as the barrel is fuckin' painful to look at. Pain!!!!!
I would love to see one these in a video game it looks badass and elegant at the same time.
This is one classy looking shotgun.
Saw the title and image of the video and thought "H&K? That looks like an old Franchi or Fabarm! Oh, wait..."
InRange video coming about inverters (if my hearing served me right there - I mean the muzzle device)? I'd be interested in that one. Also an idea for series/video: Forgotten Muzzle Devices.
I think that's just a beautiful shotgun. All the right lines, all the right materials.
th-cam.com/video/gisB7XXMUNg/w-d-xo.html
@@ForgottenWeapons Diverter! Now, that makes more sense. Thank you!
I have been waiting for the CAWS since I played Fallout 2 in the 90's. I know you'll dig one up for us.
Such a beautiful defense shotgun
Even with the diverter, I wouldn't trust that too much in a hostage situation.
At the ranges that GSG9 would use that shotgun, you could hide the horizontal spread with a tea saucer.
Everything is up to chance anyway, so why would you not use every advantage you can get?
yeah dude, just wanted to point out the same thing.
"Shoot the hostage."
Keanu Reeves bus movie.
With GSG9 on the butt end, I'd trust anything they consider appropriate.
Vertical spread also makes tremendous sense for longer range shooting. Don't need to estimate range.