My friend Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji thought very highly of Medtner - see his essays and books. He told me he once saw Medtner in a tea shop but didn't have the nerve to speak to so great a master!
I have heard their music indeed. As of now, Medtner pulls me a bit more than the others you mention. Its piano sonata is very touching just like Scriabin's and certainly contagious. Perhaps I just need to listen more of them but I doubt they will have the same shocking effect Scriabin had on me. I have heard his complete works from A to Z. Nothing is mediocre or boring to me, even his late works have something nobody before him had.
Medtner Enthusiast, blessed Piano prodigy, great Pianist and alcoholic, sadly too. Tozer was just great and I am sad he died so young. What a talent, one of the best pianists ever! By the way, it was Neeme Järvi, who directed.
i hope you've all heard Medtner's Piano Concerto 2, it's been my favourite music for years. In my opinion the first is nothing to the second (or even third) concerto. To be fair, i also find the opening of this concerto brilliant. And i'm glad to see Medtner appreciated in any way, it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.
From the back of a Hyperion CD (CDA66744), with Sihyeon's track offsets: 00:00 I. Allegro 08:50 II. Theme and Variations 24:27 III. Recapitulation 26:54 IV. Coda: Allegro molto 33:30 (End)
Fantastic concerto! But I think Zhukov's interpretation is just miles above everything else, because it is just so unbelievably energetic and badass - especially after the recapitulation. I made a sheet music video of his performance with a thematic analysis of the piece, you can check it out on my channel. (th-cam.com/video/r3YiKbMFbAk/w-d-xo.html)
Joven contemporáneo de Serguéi Rajmáninov y Alexander Scriabin, escribió un gran número de composiciones en las que en todas ellas aparece el piano. Su obra se compone de 14 sonatas para piano, 3 sonatas para violín, tres obras para dos pianos, muchas piezas para piano y 108 canciones, entre las que se incluyen dos obras para vocalise (en:vocalise). Sus 38 piezas para piano, que denominó de forma particular Skazki (cuentos o cuentos de hadas), constituyen su obra más original y un preludio de sus sonatas.
Christ. Greig, Rachmaninov, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Paderewski rolled into one. Music snobs really do need to stop dismissing beautiful pieces like this.
Thematically not so much - the music is probably better than it sounds:) but there's nothing to grab your attention. I like the Toccata in the 2nd concerto a lot more.
I felt that way at first. It was a superficial initial impression that wore off with more familiarity with the music. This is about much more than immediately catchy tunes.
We're conditioned for striking themes and powerful thematic development, but Medtner is different - he has themes but it's much about harmony, texture and his sound. Forget your preconceptions and meet Medtner on his own terms - there's much to enjoy. Thankfully Tozer is unparalleled in taking us into the Medtner sound world. He's by far the best Medtner interpreter I've heard.
Describing Medtner as a mix of several composers is damaging even further his reputation as a composer. Medtner is Medtner. If you want to trace influences go be a musicologist.
The opening is indeed arresting, but the chief glory of the work is the Coda, particularly the slower section, from Lamentoso (around 29 min), a unique and most moving concerto ending. A couple of Medtner songs have found their way into the work, like "Sleepless" and "Spanish Romance".
I think a big difference between Medtner and Rachmaninoff and why the latter is way more popular, is that Rachmaninoff leaned more into driving melodies and memorable sections such as 21:20 Imagine if this whole piece was as emotional and lyrical as that section (not saying it’s in any way inferior, just different from Rachmaninoff’s style… in a refreshing way!)
The polyphony in this piece is fantastic (for example, 11:40). The augmented and the source themes together... and all the themes lyrical, touching and alive (!!)
I think Medtner can be difficult to get into while Rachmaninoff is easier. Give Medtner a chance, give him repeated hearings. The rewards are there, and that's something I wouldn't have said a few years ago. Oh, and listen to the Rachmaninoff 4th piano concerto, especially the third movement, and you will hear a strong influence of Medtner. If Rachmaninoff could find good things in Medtner, maybe we could, too?
+Charles Timberlake I love Rachmaninov, and yes Medtner is harder, his "problem" is that his music has not so strong direction, it is being deep, pianistic and complicated but overall lacking the strong thematic drive which is something Rachmaninov and others did better and it is probably why they are much more popular. Medtner is very good, but his music is lacking strong thematic material and melodies. No flame intended, just my point of view.
+Jan Skácelík Exactly! Rachmaninoff could write beautiful themes that stick with you. Medtner either couldn't or chose not to. You are correct about the "problem" with Medtner. When I was a student (not piano major) at the College-Conservatory of Music a long time ago, Madame Olga Conus taught her students Medtner, and I think I heard one of her students play a sonata by him. Didn't enjoy it at the time, but might now.
I think most are put off by Medtner's solo piano pieces that are more obscure, and not so catchy as this piece. Comparable to a lot of Schumann's piano pieces, which seem to have been written more for himself than for an audience. The obscure is like a glass of whiskey.. it takes time to sink in and appreciate.
Did you mean much more restrained? But I definitely agree. And still it somehow manages to retain all of the interwoven, multi-layered melodic depth that's so representative of Medtner's music.
medtners piano concerto is very much like rachmaninovs in its intensity. tecnically very difficult. he is not so familiar composer. but i like very much for examples medtnes sonatas. very poetic piano music.
She was a very nice lady. We didn't talk much about music, though. This was in the early 70s, and she was not young, but walked steadily the mile to the campus. I think the university did a recorded history with her. I recall a student telling me that her take on Scriabin was, "Strange young man." Probably so.
Wow.....that's a lot of that. Im afraid that after 30+ years of playing this would be near the bottom of pieces i'd want to play. No way for me to get into what i guess are melodies. A lot of noise and movement but not a whole lot of substance I;m sorry to say. Impressive performance of a technically very demanding piece though so credit there for sure. I believe this work deserves the criticism that Griegs concerto undeservedly got at the time. A few lyric pieces slapped together to create a concerto. A disjointed mess.
Well I don't think Medtner and R. are poles apart in style but at least R. had some memorable material to work with. To me M. is competent, totally uninspired and dull.
+peter owen No one was forcing you to hear the concerto. I guess you are right about the melodic properties of this concerto. Maybe it has other interesting features that other people liked - In the end he did spend a great deal of effort in meticulously composing it and all the musicians got together and played it so it would be a shame if it never meant anything to anyone during all that time. And now seriously - saying that something is "uninspired" is the same as saying: "I don't get it" - only it is more concieted. To tell you the truth, I didn't really get it either. I don't that qualifies me to judge Medtner - Whose compositional language I am only starting to comprehend.
Of course you have the right to judge Medtner or any other composer and if you don't "get" it it's probably the composer's, fault not yours. In what I've heard of his music I haven't found much of any harmonic, structural and especially melodic interest.
Would really like to hear this as a sort of replacement for Rach 2 in concerts. Maybe they're not totally comparable, but you've got to admit the openings are similar.
@Józef Hofmann I don't recall you saying "and more invigorating to listen to in my subjective opinion", therefore I don't feel your rebuttal to my reply is valid.
@Józef Hofmann Curiously, you did not assume the same about my reply, feeling the need to specifically point out that "that's subjective". Does that mean you take me for a fool then?
There are virtuoso moments on the piano utterly obliterated by the orchestra. I call that a fail. Disagree with me as you will. You know as little as I? So what? -M
![Scriabin - Piano Concerto in F sharp minor, op. 20 (Vladimir Ashkenazy/Maazel) [Complete]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ylSrzlphVq0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love all of the nikolais
MEDTNER COMPLETELY MASTERED THE WORK IT ENDS AS BEAUTIFULLY AS IT BEGINS A TESTAMENT
La grandeur épique du 1er concerto de Medtner se ressent particulièrement ici magnifiquement restitué par G Tozer entre Rachmaninoff et Scriabine .
what a stunning ending!
My friend Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji thought very highly of Medtner - see his essays and books. He told me he once saw Medtner in a tea shop but didn't have the nerve to speak to so great a master!
Sorabji was your friend? Nice!
Wow that’s crazy that Sorabji was your friend
This sounds insane to me! A Kaikhosru as friend!
Huh? Sorabji? Your friend?
Conductor is Neeme Jarvi, label is CHANDOS!
I have heard their music indeed. As of now, Medtner pulls me a bit more than the others you mention. Its piano sonata is very touching just like Scriabin's and certainly contagious. Perhaps I just need to listen more of them but I doubt they will have the same shocking effect Scriabin had on me. I have heard his complete works from A to Z. Nothing is mediocre or boring to me, even his late works have something nobody before him had.
24:27 feel the power!!!
最近はラフマニノフよりもメトネルばっか聴いてるな
12:12
Medtner Enthusiast, blessed Piano prodigy, great Pianist and alcoholic, sadly too.
Tozer was just great and I am sad he died so young.
What a talent, one of the best pianists ever!
By the way, it was Neeme Järvi, who directed.
*hears opening melody* ooh I like this already :D
Renji Mao Exactly the same here!!
TH-cam autoplayed this after Tales op. 20. I was looking down at my phone and my head immediately shot up when this one started. STUNNING.
i hope you've all heard Medtner's Piano Concerto 2, it's been my favourite music for years. In my opinion the first is nothing to the second (or even third) concerto.
To be fair, i also find the opening of this concerto brilliant.
And i'm glad to see Medtner appreciated in any way, it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.
Renji Mao Are you Medtner's mum by any chance?
From the back of a Hyperion CD (CDA66744), with Sihyeon's track offsets:
00:00 I. Allegro
08:50 II. Theme and Variations
24:27 III. Recapitulation
26:54 IV. Coda: Allegro molto
33:30 (End)
Jacob Salomon thx
Wiki says Mergers first concerto is a single movement work....
Fantastic concerto! But I think Zhukov's interpretation is just miles above everything else, because it is just so unbelievably energetic and badass - especially after the recapitulation. I made a sheet music video of his performance with a thematic analysis of the piece, you can check it out on my channel. (th-cam.com/video/r3YiKbMFbAk/w-d-xo.html)
Joven contemporáneo de Serguéi Rajmáninov y Alexander Scriabin, escribió un gran número de composiciones en las que en todas ellas aparece el piano.
Su obra se compone de 14 sonatas para piano, 3 sonatas para violín, tres obras para dos pianos, muchas piezas para piano y 108 canciones, entre las que se incluyen dos obras para vocalise (en:vocalise). Sus 38 piezas para piano, que denominó de forma particular Skazki (cuentos o cuentos de hadas), constituyen su obra más original y un preludio de sus sonatas.
Christ. Greig, Rachmaninov, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and Paderewski rolled into one. Music snobs really do need to stop dismissing beautiful pieces like this.
Thematically not so much - the music is probably better than it sounds:) but there's nothing to grab your attention. I like the Toccata in the 2nd concerto a lot more.
I felt that way at first. It was a superficial initial impression that wore off with more familiarity with the music. This is about much more than immediately catchy tunes.
You forgot to add the most noticeable influence: Liszt
We're conditioned for striking themes and powerful thematic development, but Medtner is different - he has themes but it's much about harmony, texture and his sound. Forget your preconceptions and meet Medtner on his own terms - there's much to enjoy. Thankfully Tozer is unparalleled in taking us into the Medtner sound world. He's by far the best Medtner interpreter I've heard.
Describing Medtner as a mix of several composers is damaging even further his reputation as a composer. Medtner is Medtner. If you want to trace influences go be a musicologist.
So nice to hear Geoffrey here. I have old cassette tapes of us playing together when I was a child. He was a great influence on me.
The opening is indeed arresting, but the chief glory of the work is the Coda, particularly the slower section, from Lamentoso (around 29 min), a unique and most moving concerto ending. A couple of Medtner songs have found their way into the work, like "Sleepless" and "Spanish Romance".
Exactly. I would definitely love to hear this in a concert someday, love the orchestration.
Lovers of Scriabin music, like myself, could perhaps also hear some passages or structure that sound Scriabinian here.
This is a grand, instantly loveable piano Concerto. I'm stunned!
I think a big difference between Medtner and Rachmaninoff and why the latter is way more popular, is that Rachmaninoff leaned more into driving melodies and memorable sections such as 21:20
Imagine if this whole piece was as emotional and lyrical as that section (not saying it’s in any way inferior, just different from Rachmaninoff’s style… in a refreshing way!)
The polyphony in this piece is fantastic (for example, 11:40).
The augmented and the source themes together... and all the themes lyrical, touching and alive (!!)
The buildup at 24:10 is amazing
That's a wonderful composition! It sometimes reminds me of the ambiance of Rachmaninoff's 3rd concerto.
This guy was absolutely a new one on me, but God bless the wonderful WMNR for playing one of his concertos last night
The conductor of this recording is not Paavo Jarvi, but his father Neeme .
We want 2nd and 3rd concertos!
Pretty cool :)
Moreover, Medtner was a brillant pianist - and all the difficulties are very handy actually.
23:18 - Mahler, Symphony No. 2, mov. 5 (???)
I think Medtner can be difficult to get into while Rachmaninoff is easier. Give Medtner a chance, give him repeated hearings. The rewards are there, and that's something I wouldn't have said a few years ago. Oh, and listen to the Rachmaninoff 4th piano concerto, especially the third movement, and you will hear a strong influence of Medtner. If Rachmaninoff could find good things in Medtner, maybe we could, too?
Rachmaninoff actually inscribed his fourth piano concerto to Medtner :D
+Alexander Wollheim Didn't recall this. I suppose I've read it at some point in the past. Very interesting.
+Charles Timberlake I love Rachmaninov, and yes Medtner is harder, his "problem" is that his music has not so strong direction, it is being deep, pianistic and complicated but overall lacking the strong thematic drive which is something Rachmaninov and others did better and it is probably why they are much more popular. Medtner is very good, but his music is lacking strong thematic material and melodies. No flame intended, just my point of view.
+Jan Skácelík Exactly! Rachmaninoff could write beautiful themes that stick with you. Medtner either couldn't or chose not to. You are correct about the "problem" with Medtner. When I was a student (not piano major) at the College-Conservatory of Music a long time ago, Madame Olga Conus taught her students
Medtner, and I think I heard one of her students play a sonata by him. Didn't enjoy it at the time, but might now.
I think most are put off by Medtner's solo piano pieces that are more obscure, and not so catchy as this piece. Comparable to a lot of Schumann's piano pieces, which seem to have been written more for himself than for an audience. The obscure is like a glass of whiskey.. it takes time to sink in and appreciate.
8:05 - 8:13 Man, I wish this part lasted a bit longer 😍😍
I'm at a loss for words, this is magnificent! Thank you so much for uploading it!
Now this.. This is just wow.
We want 2nd and 3rd Medtner concertos!:) pretty cool.
WOW !!! any videos??? AMAZING !!!
An overwhelming work.
im falling in love music again with this piece!
Interesting how much more accessible this is than much of his solo piano music. The harmonies are much less restrained.
Did you mean much more restrained? But I definitely agree. And still it somehow manages to retain all of the interwoven, multi-layered melodic depth that's so representative of Medtner's music.
Greg Tyler His second concerto on the other hand..
Richard Dey If anything, medtner is tuneful in the very same way as brahms. A Russian Brahms of course.
at 14:06 it sounds so pretty
Such an epic, enthralling opening! 🤯🤯
Thank you for uploading and providing clear-looking scores.
fantastic Theme !
superb, magnificent, totally neglected
Grand performance of a grand piece!
medtners piano concerto is very much like rachmaninovs in its intensity. tecnically very difficult. he is not so familiar composer. but i like very much for examples medtnes sonatas. very poetic piano music.
Beautiful music.
3rd piano concerto is my favourite
I always like the theme at 19:55 , its a glimpse of jazz.
+rachmaninoff1974 Jazz came later.
Anyway, I still think it's far more sophisticated and elegant than what it pertains to emulate.
stunning
Where can one get a copy of the score ? I have always wanted to have it and cannot buy anywhere ???
thank you!!!!
www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/piano-concerto-no-1-op-33-sheet-music/18597310
Duo Mythos it is free on IMSLP...
She was a very nice lady. We didn't talk much about music, though. This was in the early 70s, and she was not young, but walked steadily the mile to the campus. I think the university did a recorded history with her. I recall a student telling me that her take on Scriabin was, "Strange young man." Probably so.
WOW
!!!
Thank you!
Fantastique, quelle richesse dans la composition ! Il nous transporte dans son univers ! 🙏🎶💓🎶✨
Re Richard Dey. I knew Madame Conus in Cincinnati. I used to walk to the UC campus with her in the morning.
Comparing this work with Rachmaninov’s work is like comparing crow with canary. It might be technically solid but has little beauty.
Rachmaninoff thought differently. Maybe birds of a feather flock together.
why is this the best concerto
Wow.....that's a lot of that.
Im afraid that after 30+ years of playing this would be near the bottom of pieces i'd want to play. No way for me to get into what i guess are melodies. A lot of noise and movement but not a whole lot of substance I;m sorry to say. Impressive performance of a technically very demanding piece though so credit there for sure.
I believe this work deserves the criticism that Griegs concerto undeservedly got at the time. A few lyric pieces slapped together to create a concerto. A disjointed mess.
Medtner's melodies take some time to grow on you, but once you become familiar with his style, they are just as beautiful as Schumann's melodies.
We want 2nd and 3rd concertos!
Pretty cool :)
This is divine far away from great.
я слышу "ямщик не гоний лошадей"
O.o
23:00
Красиво
Great :D
O for a memorable idea. Just one or two would do.
peter owen Did we listening to the same concerto? Or perhaps you were looking for something Rachmaninoff-like in Medtner?
Well I don't think Medtner and R. are poles apart in style but at least R. had some memorable material to work with. To me M. is competent, totally uninspired and dull.
+peter owen Read that while listening to his op. 26 sonata. LOL
+peter owen
No one was forcing you to hear the concerto. I guess you are right about the melodic properties of this concerto. Maybe it has other interesting features that other people liked - In the end he did spend a great deal of effort in meticulously composing it and all the musicians got together and played it so it would be a shame if it never meant anything to anyone during all that time.
And now seriously - saying that something is "uninspired" is the same as saying: "I don't get it" - only it is more concieted.
To tell you the truth, I didn't really get it either. I don't that qualifies me to judge Medtner - Whose compositional language I am only starting to comprehend.
Of course you have the right to judge Medtner or any other composer and if you don't "get" it it's probably the composer's, fault not yours. In what I've heard of his music I haven't found much of any harmonic, structural and especially melodic interest.
Would really like to hear this as a sort of replacement for Rach 2 in concerts. Maybe they're not totally comparable, but you've got to admit the openings are similar.
Though he is not note perfect (e.g the bar before Fig 24), Tozer gives a fine performance. What a loss his early death was!
This is Rachmaninov 2nd, but with less melody and more harmony and counterpoint
@Józef Hofmann And neither of your or Neim's assessments are true.
@Józef Hofmann I don't recall you saying "and more invigorating to listen to in my subjective opinion", therefore I don't feel your rebuttal to my reply is valid.
@Józef Hofmann Curiously, you did not assume the same about my reply, feeling the need to specifically point out that "that's subjective". Does that mean you take me for a fool then?
There are virtuoso moments on the piano utterly obliterated by the orchestra. I call that a fail. Disagree with me as you will. You know as little as I? So what? -M