A critical part of the story for me is Vash's recovery after killing Legato. He doesn't just get up again. He's a complete wreck for a good while, until he sees Meryl trying to save HIM by talking down some angry townsfolk. Her actions show that Rem's ideals are still alive. It ties in with eastern ideas of reincarnation, but these aren't necessary to see the point. Vash realizes that even if he's done terrible things, he can keep moving forward. There are always people to save, and though they can't always be saved, it's always worth trying. The ticket to the future is always open.
@@richardblack3385 i feel that theory sort of kills the message, though. meryl doesn't need to be related to rem to have a similar presence in vash's mind - it would be redundant
No... No it does not tie into Eastern ideas of reincarnation... You just have to stop at "Rem's ideals are still alive", this "reincarnation" bullshit is a vastly tourist ideal that Westerners have about the concept. Reincarnation is not by any intent of the author Yasuhiro Nightow or the director Satoshi Nishimura or show writer, Yosuke Kuroda. Reincarnation isn't in the text, is not intended in the subtext, and the presence or reincarnation serves the theme little justice, what pray tell, does it POSSIBLY serve the theme to consider reincarnation or ideas of such to be present in the story? The whole "Meryl is the reincarnation/granddaughter of Rem" is enormously a fan held idea that is not in the least a matured, scrutinized thought drawn on anything but the fact that it's an anime, and its cultural geography INCLUDES the concept of reincarnation, but does not explicitly mean people write to that solely because of it. By your own word, you just said "these aren't necessary to see the point", wouldn't that mean it's not ACTUALLY part of the themes of the show?
"But, what’s the point of achieving perfection? There is none. Nothing. Not a single thing. I loathe perfection! If something is perfect, then there is nothing left. There is no room for imagination. No place left for a person to gain additional knowledge or abilities.". - Mayuri Kurotsuchi
i believe in the veil of soulmaking, so everyone's suffering is to inform them how to be better people; if we die suffering or kill others suffering, we are just escaping our responsibility to strive to be better in this life. Waiting for the next life to be a better person is a fool's errand., @@Fulgmr
"We see Vash blunder, trip and scream his way through myriad attempts on his life." That has to be the most perfect summation of Trigun that I have ever heard, thank you.
Honestly the episode where he kills Legato is one of the most powerful moments in anime. I teared up the first time I watched it and then again when he was screaming in the next episode. It was an amazing piece of storytelling.
I haven't watched the anime but the manga tells a more thorough story. If the ending of the anime goes as stated on this video, it's a nice focus to wrap up the story quicker, but not better. Also I think the manga puts more emphasis on Rem's story and why it's so important to understand Vash's idealism and Knives's hatred.
Its a hard but fun lifestyle to strive for, i take an Optimistic pessimistic outlook. being nice to others will often reveal stories and gifts that youd never expect.
My fifth grade science teacher had a poster on the classroom wall that has been my mantra ever since I saw it. "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Seems apropos.
The line is funny but wrong at the same time, specialy in this context. TFS Gohan did not want to fight. Vash fought while taking the hardest route, as in not killing anyone and preventing any possible death. It was shown countles times that it would've been more easy to just kill his oponenets than saving them.
@@atonlort5666 i agree the line doesnt fit vash but it does fit most cases of pacifism. It is annoyingly common for people to realize they dont like conflict (fighting, arguing, etc) as soon as they start losing
I look at it like Batman, his one rule, no killing, but over the years i realized how flawed it is, you have some of the most horrible people alive hurting others yet, Vash or Batman stops them, just for them to go out and do it again. Probably why i'm more of a Jason Todd mind set, not every criminal or bad person has to die, just the ones who aren't afraid.
@@devildavin But they would turn into a judge, jury and executioner. I'm certain these characters have no issue with criminals on death row after due process has determined it appropriate.
There are plenty of clues as to why Vash and Knives arrive at their respective worldviews, especially from the flashback episode which deserves a video analysis itself, but you missed a huge theme so ingrained in Trigun that the main characters are literally 'plants' - what is the 'best' course of action in terms of survival? To Knives it was only ever about the most efficient course of action to survive, to 'not be eaten' as he eloquently phrases while lamenting the apple as a child. As a Plant, he sees eliminating humans as a matter of safety and survival. And since his respective father figure was abusive on the spaceship, he rejected Rem's idealism knowing how terrible humanity had potential to be. Vash on the other hand had an absence of a father figure. Instead of rejecting humanity due to experiencing abuse, he embraced the concept of life according to Rem's ideals, without any other masculine figure in his life to balance his ideals he thought of humanity in terms of only the good. His ignorance allowed him to not view life in terms of survival, or fear of his own life. Without his superhuman strength Vash would never have had the luxury of surviving with such a worldview, evidenced by the numerous scars on his body. So I don't think Vash's development was simply about becoming the best kind of person he could be given the circumstances, it was also about learning about the fears, troubles, and sickness of others, especially those weaker than Vash himself, and just how big a burden his ideals were to the average person. Ultimately it was understanding his brother, who so desperately wanted Vash to validate his worldview. And the ending is beautiful, because despite having a conviction that his brother was wrong, he doesn't outright reject Knives either. He spares his life, not because it was the 'moral' thing to do, but because he wants to. An act of final selfishness, free from the restraints of Rem's ideals, that seemingly contradicts his newfound beliefs and willingness to hurt others if they pose enough of a threat. What Knives says to Rem is important as a child when the spider prepares to eat the butterfly. He says that the longer they had thought about it, the the sooner the spider would have gotten the butterfly-this thought process goes all the way down to Chapel, to Wolfwood, who are taught not to hesitate, to act right away. You have to kill to survive. Vash's biggest growth as a character was recognizing his INACTION was a form of action, with often dire consequences. Perhaps after he spares his brother in the final episode, this new Vash took further action to ensure Knives would not hurt others again.
(SPOILERS FOR THE MANGA BELOW) The Plant aspect is played way better in the manga (bear in mind, not plant as a tree or such, but more akin to a reactor). Knives hatred for humanity is only deepened by how humans treat their kin, and seeks to unite the Plants of Gunsmoke in an effort to rid them of the pain from humans relying and abusing then. Vash, on the other hand, goes around and brings comfor to dying Plants as well as helping out humans in need, becoming the only being on Gunsmoke who has earned the trust of both species. In truth, Knives completely throws away any semblance of humanity in the manga to completely personify hatred. Even when free Plants and Humans from Earth come to the aid of Gunsmoke (which would help everyone), Knives is too far gone and instead seek to destroy all humans, and absorb all Plants.
The garden at the beginning seems like biblical Eden and then Rem's death is the death of Peace which the brother's lived under when she was with them. The two must then struggle to regain their peace and work hard for it, as man works for his food and comfort that were previously gratis in Eden's paradise. In the end, Vash finds peace among men and does not kill his brother, ending the cycle of suffering rather than ending another life.
I keep coming back to this video. The sheer amount of pure love for this series is extremely infectious and I can't help but smile the way through, feeling my own appreciation for the series grow along with the dramatic recap of the series. Even then this is like a nice and easy pick up on the morality of the series and sometimes things really are best in small bites. It certainly started a butterfly effect of thoughts about morality when I watched it. I am sad that I missed watching this when I was younger, I think it really would have done me some good. No less enjoyable as an adult though! PS: I'm the one from the Reddit post.
The analysis started off well enough, but it still felt like you half-assed it. I think that it's important to highlight Wolfwood in any serious discussion of Trigun and its philosophy, and not once you mention him. If anything, Wolfwood is the one that seriously plants the seeds of how ineffective Vash's absolute pacifism truly is. Wolfwood's point of view is not perfect, either, and he does learn from Vash along the way... But in the end, it costs him his life too, to follow in Vash's footsteps.
I think you're absolutely right that a full comprehensive look at the show HAS to tackle wolfwood. I was kicking myself leaving him out but I wanted to try and stick to the bare essentials because A) I wanted to keep the video at a reasonable length (I'm new at analysis and felt I might be over extending myself as is) and B) I wanted to leave a few surprises for the people that had never seen Trigun and decide to watch it after this video. The give and take between Vash and Wolfwood is absolutely brilliant and I could (and one day might) do a whole video dedicated solely on their relationship. I hope you can forgive the omission and still enjoy what I had the ability to cover in thos video!
@@DallenMalna That's a fair explanation, I think. In any case, you can always make a sequel video or an addendum that covers things much more in depth. In that case, you may not have to worry about keeping the video in a certain length. You can simply say at the beginning "This analysis will REQUIRE that you watch the show at least once. If I seem long-winded, I apologise" or something similar. Thanks for the reply.
@@aggrodkreg4321 I think I might do that after a bit. I really want to research some more and maybe re-read the manga to to do a serious deep dive on some of the aspects I overlooked like the affects Knives and Wolfwood have on Vash, and how different they are in the manga compared to the anime.
@@DallenMalna It's not that you missed out an interesting feature, but rather than in missing it out, your analysis takes some very wrong steps. Legato would have you believe that the lesson is "the right thing to do here is to kill", but, as we know from Wolfwood, the real lesson is "sometimes we do wrong things because they're just what we know to do at the time; forgiveness is how we move on and learn to do the right thing in the future". By missing that, you give Legato the credit for Vash's growth, and that's just a mistake. Killing Legato isn't right; it's not "the best choice". It's still the wrong thing to do. It's just that that's the best answer Vash has at that time; he makes it, breaks his code and, yes, does something wrong, because he doesn't have anything else he can do. But you leap to the assumption that the lesson we're supposed to learn is that sticking to an impossible standard is something we just need to let go of, and you can only make that assumption if you haven't learned Wolfwood's lesson. It's no coincident that Wolfwood is a priest bearing a cross. Vash takes a hit when he falls short of his ideals, but he's resilient enough to move ahead in his conflict with Knives, continuing to believe in Rem (who isn't a stifling figure that holds him back but the source of his moral compass) and it's no accident that it's the weapons Wolfwood gave him that help him turn the tables in protecting his vision of the world. (also, C.S. Lewis is awful.)
Thank you so much for this video. Trigun is a purely humanitarian piece of art work. It is meant to teach us how to be kind and to love one another, but also how to come to terms when we are at odds. Bless everyone involved in the production and prolonging of the trigun legacy
Excellent analysis, man. This is my favourite anime series of all time. Many would say Cowboy Bepop, but Trigun puts biggest smile in my face. Vash is one of my favourite characters in all of anime, especially because his pacifism, ideals and being essentially the "Superman". One of the things that I love about Vash is also that he keeps his sadness and tragedy hidden behind his smile, his goofy nature unlike characters like Eren Jaeger who openly shows how much he hates Titans and lets his tragic past define him.
Three classic anime space westerns came out in 1998. Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and everybody forgets Outlaw Star. They are all series that I think of as mandatory watch material.
Nice video man. Wolfwoods story killed me growing up watching this. When he sits in front of the altar and questions his choices in life with that cross... soulcrushing.
I've always loved Trigun. And Vash is one of my favorite characters. To have an in-depth analysis on the series (more so on Vash himself) definitley a joy. Also it doesn't hurt to have a fellow believer as a TH-camr.
Dude yeah it's really glad to hear from a fellow believer. I find a lot of Christians on TH-cam are really busy bein focusing purely on "Christian" things and that is awesome! But I believe God is God of everything and that includes storytelling, so I always wanted to kind of take a critical lense from Christianity and look at storytelling that way!
This is easily the most inspiring thing I have heard in some time. I think, all these years later, why a girl I used to know tried to get me into this series, why I enjoyed it so much. Thank you. You have given me both a loftier and more reachable goal. 😊
The Fundamental Flaw of Philosophy tells us "Whether something is hard means absolutely nothing about whether it's right or wrong". Ultimately Vash stuck to his ideals even if it was proven to him that he cannot keep them perfectly, because he realized that what he wanted to fight for wasn't proven wrong just because Perfect Pacifism is impossible.
Don't you mean absolute pacifism? Because I'm a little confused because pacifism in the field of political philosophy has at least 3 definitions, them being absolute pacifism, which a rejection of all violence, conditional pacifism, which rejects some forms of violence with the exception of self-defense, and pacifism, which sees violence such as war and peace as in-twined. Also, epistemologically speaking, this depends on the definition of pacifism from culture to culture or anthropologically as well. Case in point, a critique of pacifism is only possible if it is defined on what the meaning is.
Great analysis!! I watched Trigun in High school and liked it but definitely did not notice the deeper levels you discussed. This video made me appreciate it even more. Hats off to you.
I absolutely loved your review. I like to study theology, and as I watched this show, I recognized that there was something special about it, although I was having trouble summarizing myself. Your review does just that. I loved the quote from Lewis. Mere Christianity is probably my favorite book besides Holy scripture. I’ve often thought about that quote, and how it applies life’s challenges,the example of Trigun really puts that perspective. God help us to always make the best possible choices, pursue holiness, and through God’s mercy and grace - get back up when we fall down. Keep up the good work. Grace to you. By grace alone Through faith alone In Christ alone To God alone be the glory
I remember viewing this anime as a kid, it actually changed my view of life, and kind of "broke something" in me at first, I tought so deeply on many things and really opened my mind in terms of all the different ways people see and feel everything
This was an amazing analysis on one of my favorite animes and you actually had me tearing up at the end. God bless you and I hope you have a wonderful life full of LOVE AND PEACE!!!!
You just won yourself a subscriber. What a wonderful, in-depth, and refreshing analysis of my favorite anime. Few people see it for what it is. Thank you so much for this video.
Outstanding analysis. Kudos for quoting Lewis. There's a novel with another pacifist main character, Daniel Keyes Moran's "The Long Run". I liked it on first reading, and it's got some great ideas and scenes--but in the end, Trent was not a model for the rest of us--he had powers we do not. So does Vash, but he resolves the problem in an entirely different, and much more satisfying way.
Well we are talking about spoiling an anime that is what 20 years old or more by now? That said it is a crime so few people even know it exist. Basically if it didn't air on Adult Swim people barely knew about it outside of the more hard core anime fan.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming IDK, there is this idea seeded into newer anime fans that older anime is bad. The differences in tone, direction, style and presentation are vast enough to where I often hear timeless classics being written off all the time. The anime collapse of the mid 2000's has a lot to do with it as many great older titles are still trapped in licensing hall. Many newer fans wouldn't even have had the option to watch most older titles when they first got into anime due to localized versions of anime being completely inaccessible at the time. Wolf's rain just got rereleased, what? Last year? Not spoiling is just a positive in-community thing to do.
@@earlyman7439 It always breaks my heart to see older anime ignored or put down. Armitage 3 Polymatrix was one of the first anime's I ever bought a DVD for. In fact it came with my first DVD player. Yet it gets like a 2-3 star ratting on most sites. It had a deep story and the English dub was well done by big name actors. Luckily for a lot of those anime's with licensing problems there are a lot of sources online to let you watch them, even if it's a big of a legal grey area. Still the fact they are not official, and wont' be on things like Netflix or Crunchyroll kinds of means most people won't ever hear of them.
Have not watched this show in years but the ideology with how it is presented in this show is something to behold. I love the take on the Superman trope and how touching inner redemption is handled. Great analysis!!!!!! There are some powerful quotes that I will definitely be bookmarking from you! Keep up the fantastic work!!!!!
Kinda, but minus the remorse. Vash isn't atoning the way Kenshin is. Vash was born pure, raised pure by Rem, and remains pure in a hostile world. Desperately. Kenshin is holding back, while Vash is holding on. It's a solid comparison, though
Such a great vid from you. You taught me the idea of pacifism in Vash and how we people can adapt it in our lives. Saying from the 1st year philosophy college student thanks for a lesson you brought out from this masterpiece anime. May the god bless you.
I watched the first episode a few years ago, was disappointed by the lolsorandom humour, and never watched another episode... Until seeing your video here. Watched the next five episodes recently; really enjoying it. Thanks for giving me reason to watch this further and see the depth behind the show's goofy exterior!
Yeah that first bit really does just seem very "WOAH ZANY AMIRITE?!" But I think it does a good job getting you to accept the "normal" state of the characters so the dark turn can hit that much harder
This is well done. A few more points: Vash's philosophy, taken to this extreme, is also driven by his guilt. He is a living weapon like Knives, as he sees it, created to kill, so both to make sure he's different from Knives and to atone for his propensity for violence he takes pacifism to an extreme. But it isn't all altruism. It's partially guilt-driven. Being forced to kill Legato forces him to question his motives. He needs to confront his guilt head on. When he sees Meryl and Millie living out Rem's philosophy, he realizes that the philosophy was never the problem. He was. But it IS right to try and save everyone. That sometimes you can't doesn't mean that it's wrong to try. This is what Wolfwood realizes, and no Trigun analysis is complete without mentioning Wolfwood. Wolfwood went into it with the wrong philosophy - that saving people meant killing the bad people. He never even tried to save everyone, and when he does, like Vash, he sacrifices his body for it...yet unlike Vash he isn't superhuman. Good job overall.
Holy hell Dude, this is gold. Never quite thought of the philosophical aspects of this show, as I watched it before I really dove into those aspects of shows i watched.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING THIS ANIME THE ATTENTION IT FUCKING DESERVES I LOVE YOU Edit: I'm so sorry that comment was on impulse after watching your opening but now that I've seen the entire video I must say you deserve FAR more subscribers than you have. Your sense of character building and story telling is fantastic and while you didn't touch on everything, like Wolfwood's journey, the final battle with Knives, etc, but given what you DID provide and how BEAUTIFULLY you touched on it, I loathe the fact I didn't find this sooner. Your video made me so openly, my good dude. I'm subbed. I await anything else you put out, will probably check out that Smash video next
You're way too kind! And yeah I wanted so much to talk about knives and wolf wood but I decided to focus on Vash's pacifism for now so that maybe people who go to watch the show will still have something to surprise them!!! I am so grateful you enjoyed this video! I'm still new to the analysis game and my next set of videos are a little different than this because I have a tradition of reviewing every game book and anime I went through in the year...once I finish that though I'm planning on diving full bore into more analysis! Also if you want more content somewhat like this from me I do suggest either my "dallen malna reviews" playlist or better yet my "stories that matter" playlist. Thank you again so much for the subscription and I'll do my best to earn your views!
I don't think Vash's story is meant to be about pacifism at all. It's more about the inevitability of making tough choices and realizing that practicing idealistic values can have consequences. I mean the end to the show is Vash realizing that he can't always get out of every sticky situation and kill no one in the process.
Damn... You took my personal role model from one of my favorite animes of all time and gave me a window into it I had missed despite or perhaps because of my love for the series. Something I needed to hear at this point in my life. Giving my best and not getting where I want to be may be because I am 'dreaming of Ren' as opposed to accepting that I'm making the best decisions I can as I continue to walk towards the best solution I have in front of me. Thank you for opening this up for me.
Whoo Hooo!!! Love and Peace! "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else." (1 Thessalonians 5:15) Fave anime by far.
I pose for you here a question: If a man/woman/child were having their lives threatened, and no action short of the destruction of that threat will save them, would you sit by? Would you not be as responsible, for refusing to do what needs be done, as the one pulling the trigger?
That's the exact thing that Legato, a villain in the show, does to Vash later in the series. Edit: 6:16 in the video is that very scenario you're talking about.
Nah that is always the dumbest excuse ever. It's not equal guilt to not save some one as the person who kills them. That doesn't mean there is no guilt or responsibility, but it's not equal. Thinking like that would only cause insane levels of guilt and stress to the point most people would kill themselves. Thousands if not millions of people die every day, many of which you could of helped. If you thought of all the children you could of fed with the hamburger you threw away or how giving just one more dollar to a charity would of saved a life.... There are more charities and more children than you can ever hope to help. You are only ever responsible for your own actions, and even then you can't always foresee the consequences of them. Using your example say a man is holding up a family at gun point. You rush in and kill him to save the family. Good deed right? Well what if he was providing for his own starving family and now that he will never come home they will die in the streets in despair? You had no idea the back story behind the robber, and it might not of changed your mind either. Do the needs of the guilty give them a right to harm others?
Its really simple....If i have to pull the trigger i will, if i can't save them i just walk away....like a Coward? Yes, but cowards live longer....besides if there was nothing i could do to save them then its not my fault.
This is a situation where neither choice is morally pure. The argument, then, is over whether morality IS something that is pure. Be right 100% of the time? Is that the goal? Should we always be the best person we can be, the most pure of heart, to be moral? Or is it about trying? Vash tried to be 100% pacifistic. In the end, he couldn't be. But once he realized that, he resolved to move forward and get as close to his goal as he could. This breakdown could do with the concept of Platonic Ideals. In the end, the Ideal of something does not exist in the real world. But it's useful as a concept that we strive towards. Failure does not prevent us from striving again. Put more simply: yeah, we would bear some responsibility if we refused to pull the trigger and watch others die as a result. And we would also bear responsibility as a killer if we chose to save others by killing. The meaning of the act, as a soldier protecting others, does not erase the deaths we cause by doing so. You're right, we would bear some responsibility if we refused to act. (Also, I agree with the other commenters, please bring Wolfwood into this. I'll happily watch that longer video. He's essential tonthis conversation if you want anything more than an absolute bare-bones assessment).
A little late to the video your analysis was fantastic also watching some of the most climactic moments of the show seriously gave me goosebumps I love the message of the show of purpose and morals
@@flashvincent1021 Was it? I don't remember him having a knife before, and the actual scene is not really clear enough to tell through the images. But I'll take this to be at least as possible as a rock. Either way, it was definitely not a gun.
vash is one of the most influential characters in my life. It's the idea I always want to strive for when it comes to everyone, so much is determined by circumstance when it comes to the types of people that come to be I don't see anyone with the moral authority to invalidate another's life no matter what they are or what they have done, and I know that I would likely succumb to emotional rage if something were to happen to the loves in my life by another's actions, that cannot however invalidate the idea behind such a idea.
I suggest Outlaw Star. As far as space things go it is far far superior to Cowboy Bebop. Robotech is also a classic series that frankly started most of the American anime.
Vash to me represents reconciliation, or, a life lived all of the time to find the best way to preserve life. Rare occasions sometimes require that life be taken. But above all else, live in peace with all.
Isn't Vash more like Batman than Superman then? Someone who refuses to kill despite the fact that it causes more harm to society than good, his arch-enemy is someone who wants him to kill and break his moral code, and fights by manipulating and setting up dire scenarios where he'll have to kill to survive.
There is a good argument to be made for that too, but I feel he is closer to superman in terms of how much stronger he is than everyone else. He could literally wipe out the planet even by accident of he isn't careful, so the dilemma is less...will he lose? And more...will he lose himself?
Hes both in essence. A god like being who could destroy the planet without a grain of effort who tries to never break his moral code by choosing to never kill regaurdless or how evil or how dispicable the actions the individual has commited, even if others end up dying because of this.
Superman also refuses to kill after Zod, and it unquestionably causes more harm to society than good, and he has numerous enemies that play off of that. Max Lord comes to mind. Batman vs Joker may be a more well known version of the story, but it's Superman's dilemma as well.
They're similar and polar opposites as well. Batman is driven by vengeance and is literally psychotic - he's as crazy as the villains he puts away and enjoys beating them to within an inch of their life. Vash is a true pacifist in that he tries to avoid conflict wherever possible but fails because seems motivated by love and an insane attachment to the idealism of Rem. While Batman has his "no-kill" rule (which doesn't apply to non-humanoid aliens), he doesn't care much for any of the people he meets or the villains he puts away.
I really enjoyed the way you broke this down. I love this anime and the deep themes layered there is. Well done and I look forward to more content like this!
Anime that came to the states in the 90's and early 2000's was amazing. Very few titles hit store shelves, those that actually made it seemed to always be the best of the best. Now we are drowning under a sea of mediocrity. Even when we find amazing new shows, they end up being dead or discontinued. One set up "season" of 12 episodes and then nothing ever again. Trigun was amazing not only because how well it tackled complex topics while having amazing humor but it also told a complete story with new characters and an original world in something like 26 episodes. It was designed to be complete after basically one full season. Newer shows tend to plan some epic 200 episode mega series like One piece, and then cancel it even if the manga keeps on going. I will say the tendency of Anime to shift drasitcally in tone was always a scary thing though. Trigun, Eva, Full Metal Alchemist and so many other shows start off light and happy and then turn extremely dark and gritty. It made watching them almost depressing at times with little to no warning of such dark themes were comming.
Minus the Theological grounding (itself unable to address the Euthyphro honestly) the Secular message in video of reducing harm and spreading kindness infectiously is one vehemently appreciated! Kudos!
The Euthyphro has been answered since before it was asked. The objective nature of good is the nature of God Himself. Good cannot exist independently of God's nature so the question is really a nonsense one. It would be like asking "are the laws of physics real because of reality or because of physics." Or the ever silly "can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it?" Asking a logically impossible question does nothing in terms of arguing against good or God. I am glad you enjoyed the video!
@@DallenMalna Many have tried to address it from a Theistic framing, but it's reduced to special pleading and circular logic. Secular Humanism acknowledges that goodness is a product values deigned by the sufficiently intelligent agent and expressed in sharing space within society - the same with badness for fluidity sake - all rooted in reducing or causing unnecessary harm as a means and end to itself. Again as an aside, Trigun was my childhood and with time comes more appreciation of its message, to which I appreciate your overall capture! It just looses its power when relying on unfalsifiable models to root morality, which itself is inherently subjectve and contingent upon values, which are created within capable minds and the shared space wherein shared. An example might be that of Vegeta in Dragonball Z. He's about to sacrifice himself in hopes of destroying Majin Buu, and asks Piccolo if he'll be able to retain his body in the Afterlife. Piccolo essentially replies with noting the slim chance of that, given all the evils commited up until that point. Vegeta chuckle shrugs it off and commences Final Atonement anyways, because his values were with family, friends, and maybe Earthlings in general over whatever happens to him after death. Secular Humanism is like that, rooted in Empathy, daily acts unseen demanding a flood of emotion if broadcasted with no Theistic model to declair morality - which again is not answered without special pleading and circular reasoning. It's doubtful all of this will connect, our brains crave consistency and any hint of cognitive dissonance tends to result in the backfire effect erecting a fortified defense digging deeper in - all very natural. I was raised in cultural Christianity for near 30 years before quite painfully yer honestly reasoning out of it with ample reflection and research, and made many apologies to people who I might have occosted in unaware ignorance. Life is a journey and all that~ Anyways.... this carried on longer than intended and typing on mobile so more delays, but AGAIN your overall video presentation was magnificient, and if still keem to discuss the Euthyphro, morality systems, or religion, or philosohy in general, there are no objections! *edit, some mistakes with senstances, still missed some prolly, on mobile in a stream of thoughts ^^;
That was beautiful, just like Trigun. The manga intensifies the philosophies present in the anime even further and is my all-time favorite story. Have you seen The Irresponsible Captain Tylor? You might find Tylor just as interesting as Vash. I tend to liken Vash to Jesus and Tylor to the Buddha. They are two of my all-time favorite characters.
While this is kinda true, it left something VERY important: Vash didnt recover on is own, it was Meryl who help him, people were VERY close to lynch him after knowing is true identity and Meryl stood to the town people, preaching forgiveness and Vash saw in her the same thing he saw in REM, THEM is were he figured out the true: Pacifism is not some mesure were you need to be perfect, is a proyect, one were you want to strive for. And what you said about REm is highlight by Vash cock, which is red because of REM and a symbol of Vash burden, when he finally take care of knive in the lass episode, he take it and leave there while the imagine of REM is looking in the sky, meaning he finally left is pass. Finally the series is VERY step into christian though, Vash and Knives being a version of Cain and Abel, the idea of a garden were both show their inclinations(protect all humans/kill them all) and the fact is the last place in the series and were both brother fight is clearly obvious of garden of eden, there is also the Gun Ho being call demons, Wolfwood being a cynical preacher who dosent belive what he preach(in contrast to Vash, who is belive in no kill even when he is call the human Typhoon) and so on.
LOVE AND PEACE! Trigun and FSN double up as the greatest super hero stories of all time. Vash takes it much further than Shirou though in his devout pacifistic ideal.
I love your analysis of this awe inspiring series. Even though I have watched it for free I bought the series to show support. Can you dissect the philosophical themes in Ergo Proxy by episodes please. It will be heavy stuff but rewarding nonetheless. Keep up your cool work man
Maybe other anime say hold on to your hopes while retaining your realism, but Trigun probably is one of the few anime which actually shows this. Other shows probably take this belief for granted.
Suggestion for review: Haibane Renmei. Non-action series with lovely soundtrack, deep philosophy, and an absolutely exquisite way of asking its questions, and revealing its answers. (Though not all questions will be answered.) Must be watched cold, absolutely no spoilers, and then watched again, because things that passed unnoticed the first time through will glow with meaning the second.
You said "he doesn't even fire his gun until the fifth episode," but if you watch closely on the first episode, after the girls are kidnapped by the big mohawk guy, Vash comes to save them and ends up tumbling down a hill towards them. You can just barely catch a glimpse of two bullets flying off of him to cut the ropes and allow the girls to run. The scene is shown again in a later episode as Meryl recalls when they first met Vash.
You're absolutely correct! I should have specified "he doesn't even fire his gun at an opponent until the fifth episode," but whatcha gonna do? Thanks for pointing out that little detail though! I hope you enjoyed the video even with my mistake!
Have to say that despite how serious/emotional the fight with Legato was the most i took from it was how much easier the "kill the spider to save the butterfly" situation is when the butterfly is two chicks.
i love this anime very much, it made a huge inpact on my chieldhood, and many times i saw myself crying because of the beautiful and sad moments it had.
this analysis was really well done. great job man. you tackled some aspects i didn’t catch on my own. i notice your channel is very small but the quality of this video doesn’t show it. i love the love and peace bit at the end. a request for a future video would be neon genesis evangelion
Eva is so hard to tackle but I will likely get around to it once the final film releases. I'm a little nervous to ever make that video because while I love eva I think i love it for wildly different reasons than most people. Still, stick around once that final film comes out and I'll give it my best^^ My next couple of videos are well overdue year recaps. But after that ill get back to analysis. I've been thinking about tackling Disney's Beaty and the Beast believe it or not XD. Either way thank you so much for the comment!
I know it's a huge classic but It's still on my "plan to watch list" haha it's very hard to stay up to date with the latest anime, so going back to your history book is even harder haha great video man keep up the good work 👌
I'm not a huge anime guy. But I implore you... WATCH THIS SERIES. I watched it in my formative years, when I was going through some really, REALLY dark times. It truly helped to mold the very basis of my morality in ways that I can't properly quantify or justify through meaningless TH-cam comment. Seriously... make some time for it, my man.
A critical part of the story for me is Vash's recovery after killing Legato. He doesn't just get up again. He's a complete wreck for a good while, until he sees Meryl trying to save HIM by talking down some angry townsfolk. Her actions show that Rem's ideals are still alive. It ties in with eastern ideas of reincarnation, but these aren't necessary to see the point. Vash realizes that even if he's done terrible things, he can keep moving forward. There are always people to save, and though they can't always be saved, it's always worth trying. The ticket to the future is always open.
There is a theory that Meryl is a descendant of rem
@@richardblack3385 i feel that theory sort of kills the message, though. meryl doesn't need to be related to rem to have a similar presence in vash's mind - it would be redundant
Oh Jesus christ when I Red Meryl I automatically entered solid snake mode, but I remembered that this is a Trigun video
No... No it does not tie into Eastern ideas of reincarnation... You just have to stop at "Rem's ideals are still alive", this "reincarnation" bullshit is a vastly tourist ideal that Westerners have about the concept. Reincarnation is not by any intent of the author Yasuhiro Nightow or the director Satoshi Nishimura or show writer, Yosuke Kuroda. Reincarnation isn't in the text, is not intended in the subtext, and the presence or reincarnation serves the theme little justice, what pray tell, does it POSSIBLY serve the theme to consider reincarnation or ideas of such to be present in the story? The whole "Meryl is the reincarnation/granddaughter of Rem" is enormously a fan held idea that is not in the least a matured, scrutinized thought drawn on anything but the fact that it's an anime, and its cultural geography INCLUDES the concept of reincarnation, but does not explicitly mean people write to that solely because of it. By your own word, you just said "these aren't necessary to see the point", wouldn't that mean it's not ACTUALLY part of the themes of the show?
Vash's screams of anguish in "Live Through" still send chills down my spine. It's raw and painful to hear.
"That perfection is unattainable is no reason to not strive for it."
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?"
"But, what’s the point of achieving perfection? There is none. Nothing. Not a single thing. I loathe perfection! If something is perfect, then there is nothing left. There is no room for imagination. No place left for a person to gain additional knowledge or abilities.". - Mayuri Kurotsuchi
You have no desire to climb a mountain who's peak can not be seen?
i believe in the veil of soulmaking, so everyone's suffering is to inform them how to be better people; if we die suffering or kill others suffering, we are just escaping our responsibility to strive to be better in this life. Waiting for the next life to be a better person is a fool's errand., @@Fulgmr
I do if climbing the mountain makes me stronger inside. @@monaskulllll
"We see Vash blunder, trip and scream his way through myriad attempts on his life."
That has to be the most perfect summation of Trigun that I have ever heard, thank you.
Honestly the episode where he kills Legato is one of the most powerful moments in anime. I teared up the first time I watched it and then again when he was screaming in the next episode. It was an amazing piece of storytelling.
Man, I remember watching Trigun a while ago and it actually changed my ideas on mercy and decision making. It taught me so many lessons
I'm always torn between if the manga or anime handled the morals better. Still one of the best stories out there
i haven't read all of trigun maximum yet. Is the anime very different?
@@dantecrottogini529 yes very. By the time you read Trigun maximum they become almost two completely different series.
does this include the other version of the anime?
12narutoshippuden11 what other version? I thought it’d just the anime and the movie
I haven't watched the anime but the manga tells a more thorough story. If the ending of the anime goes as stated on this video, it's a nice focus to wrap up the story quicker, but not better. Also I think the manga puts more emphasis on Rem's story and why it's so important to understand Vash's idealism and Knives's hatred.
When I was a child and saw Trigun, I loved Vash from the first go and to this day strive to live that kind of idealism. Be kind because it’s right
That path leads only to misery.
Feruna Lutelou it’s hard and it can be lonely. People will take advantage of it and our greats will break but it doesn’t mean it should be given up on
Look at poor Emiya. That guy literally became suicidal because of his broken ideals for peace
Its a hard but fun lifestyle to strive for, i take an Optimistic pessimistic outlook. being nice to others will often reveal stories and gifts that youd never expect.
Yep, that's most likely what they intended with the show.
My fifth grade science teacher had a poster on the classroom wall that has been my mantra ever since I saw it.
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
Seems apropos.
Best critique of pacifism was TFS's Cell.
"You're a coward."
"I'm a pacifist!"
"Oh, so a coward who's patting himself on the back!"
The line is funny but wrong at the same time, specialy in this context. TFS Gohan did not want to fight. Vash fought while taking the hardest route, as in not killing anyone and preventing any possible death. It was shown countles times that it would've been more easy to just kill his oponenets than saving them.
like punisher daredevil dialogue
@@atonlort5666 i agree the line doesnt fit vash but it does fit most cases of pacifism. It is annoyingly common for people to realize they dont like conflict (fighting, arguing, etc) as soon as they start losing
I look at it like Batman, his one rule, no killing, but over the years i realized how flawed it is, you have some of the most horrible people alive hurting others yet, Vash or Batman stops them, just for them to go out and do it again.
Probably why i'm more of a Jason Todd mind set, not every criminal or bad person has to die, just the ones who aren't afraid.
@@devildavin But they would turn into a judge, jury and executioner.
I'm certain these characters have no issue with criminals on death row after due process has determined it appropriate.
There are plenty of clues as to why Vash and Knives arrive at their respective worldviews, especially from the flashback episode which deserves a video analysis itself, but you missed a huge theme so ingrained in Trigun that the main characters are literally 'plants' - what is the 'best' course of action in terms of survival? To Knives it was only ever about the most efficient course of action to survive, to 'not be eaten' as he eloquently phrases while lamenting the apple as a child. As a Plant, he sees eliminating humans as a matter of safety and survival. And since his respective father figure was abusive on the spaceship, he rejected Rem's idealism knowing how terrible humanity had potential to be. Vash on the other hand had an absence of a father figure. Instead of rejecting humanity due to experiencing abuse, he embraced the concept of life according to Rem's ideals, without any other masculine figure in his life to balance his ideals he thought of humanity in terms of only the good. His ignorance allowed him to not view life in terms of survival, or fear of his own life. Without his superhuman strength Vash would never have had the luxury of surviving with such a worldview, evidenced by the numerous scars on his body.
So I don't think Vash's development was simply about becoming the best kind of person he could be given the circumstances, it was also about learning about the fears, troubles, and sickness of others, especially those weaker than Vash himself, and just how big a burden his ideals were to the average person. Ultimately it was understanding his brother, who so desperately wanted Vash to validate his worldview. And the ending is beautiful, because despite having a conviction that his brother was wrong, he doesn't outright reject Knives either. He spares his life, not because it was the 'moral' thing to do, but because he wants to. An act of final selfishness, free from the restraints of Rem's ideals, that seemingly contradicts his newfound beliefs and willingness to hurt others if they pose enough of a threat.
What Knives says to Rem is important as a child when the spider prepares to eat the butterfly. He says that the longer they had thought about it, the the sooner the spider would have gotten the butterfly-this thought process goes all the way down to Chapel, to Wolfwood, who are taught not to hesitate, to act right away. You have to kill to survive. Vash's biggest growth as a character was recognizing his INACTION was a form of action, with often dire consequences. Perhaps after he spares his brother in the final episode, this new Vash took further action to ensure Knives would not hurt others again.
(SPOILERS FOR THE MANGA BELOW)
The Plant aspect is played way better in the manga (bear in mind, not plant as a tree or such, but more akin to a reactor). Knives hatred for humanity is only deepened by how humans treat their kin, and seeks to unite the Plants of Gunsmoke in an effort to rid them of the pain from humans relying and abusing then. Vash, on the other hand, goes around and brings comfor to dying Plants as well as helping out humans in need, becoming the only being on Gunsmoke who has earned the trust of both species.
In truth, Knives completely throws away any semblance of humanity in the manga to completely personify hatred. Even when free Plants and Humans from Earth come to the aid of Gunsmoke (which would help everyone), Knives is too far gone and instead seek to destroy all humans, and absorb all Plants.
The garden at the beginning seems like biblical Eden and then Rem's death is the death of Peace which the brother's lived under when she was with them. The two must then struggle to regain their peace and work hard for it, as man works for his food and comfort that were previously gratis in Eden's paradise. In the end, Vash finds peace among men and does not kill his brother, ending the cycle of suffering rather than ending another life.
Thank you for this good breakdown !
Thank you. I hope the new anime Trigun Stempede will tell this part more details then the Anime 1998.
Knives saw the bad half of humanity, Vash saw the good. both only saw one side of the coin.
I keep coming back to this video. The sheer amount of pure love for this series is extremely infectious and I can't help but smile the way through, feeling my own appreciation for the series grow along with the dramatic recap of the series. Even then this is like a nice and easy pick up on the morality of the series and sometimes things really are best in small bites. It certainly started a butterfly effect of thoughts about morality when I watched it. I am sad that I missed watching this when I was younger, I think it really would have done me some good. No less enjoyable as an adult though!
PS: I'm the one from the Reddit post.
I'm so grateful for your comment! I can't thank you enough for taking the time to watch and that you enjoyed this too!
The analysis started off well enough, but it still felt like you half-assed it. I think that it's important to highlight Wolfwood in any serious discussion of Trigun and its philosophy, and not once you mention him. If anything, Wolfwood is the one that seriously plants the seeds of how ineffective Vash's absolute pacifism truly is. Wolfwood's point of view is not perfect, either, and he does learn from Vash along the way... But in the end, it costs him his life too, to follow in Vash's footsteps.
I think you're absolutely right that a full comprehensive look at the show HAS to tackle wolfwood. I was kicking myself leaving him out but I wanted to try and stick to the bare essentials because A) I wanted to keep the video at a reasonable length (I'm new at analysis and felt I might be over extending myself as is) and B) I wanted to leave a few surprises for the people that had never seen Trigun and decide to watch it after this video. The give and take between Vash and Wolfwood is absolutely brilliant and I could (and one day might) do a whole video dedicated solely on their relationship. I hope you can forgive the omission and still enjoy what I had the ability to cover in thos video!
@@DallenMalna That's a fair explanation, I think. In any case, you can always make a sequel video or an addendum that covers things much more in depth. In that case, you may not have to worry about keeping the video in a certain length. You can simply say at the beginning "This analysis will REQUIRE that you watch the show at least once. If I seem long-winded, I apologise" or something similar. Thanks for the reply.
@@aggrodkreg4321 I think I might do that after a bit. I really want to research some more and maybe re-read the manga to to do a serious deep dive on some of the aspects I overlooked like the affects Knives and Wolfwood have on Vash, and how different they are in the manga compared to the anime.
@@DallenMalna a Vash, Wolfwood video would be quite excellent
@@DallenMalna It's not that you missed out an interesting feature, but rather than in missing it out, your analysis takes some very wrong steps. Legato would have you believe that the lesson is "the right thing to do here is to kill", but, as we know from Wolfwood, the real lesson is "sometimes we do wrong things because they're just what we know to do at the time; forgiveness is how we move on and learn to do the right thing in the future".
By missing that, you give Legato the credit for Vash's growth, and that's just a mistake. Killing Legato isn't right; it's not "the best choice". It's still the wrong thing to do. It's just that that's the best answer Vash has at that time; he makes it, breaks his code and, yes, does something wrong, because he doesn't have anything else he can do. But you leap to the assumption that the lesson we're supposed to learn is that sticking to an impossible standard is something we just need to let go of, and you can only make that assumption if you haven't learned Wolfwood's lesson.
It's no coincident that Wolfwood is a priest bearing a cross. Vash takes a hit when he falls short of his ideals, but he's resilient enough to move ahead in his conflict with Knives, continuing to believe in Rem (who isn't a stifling figure that holds him back but the source of his moral compass) and it's no accident that it's the weapons Wolfwood gave him that help him turn the tables in protecting his vision of the world.
(also, C.S. Lewis is awful.)
Trigun was the first anime to make me cry, RIP Nicholas D Wolfwood
Thank you so much for this video. Trigun is a purely humanitarian piece of art work. It is meant to teach us how to be kind and to love one another, but also how to come to terms when we are at odds. Bless everyone involved in the production and prolonging of the trigun legacy
Excellent analysis, man. This is my favourite anime series of all time. Many would say Cowboy Bepop, but Trigun puts biggest smile in my face. Vash is one of my favourite characters in all of anime, especially because his pacifism, ideals and being essentially the "Superman". One of the things that I love about Vash is also that he keeps his sadness and tragedy hidden behind his smile, his goofy nature unlike characters like Eren Jaeger who openly shows how much he hates Titans and lets his tragic past define him.
Three classic anime space westerns came out in 1998. Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and everybody forgets Outlaw Star. They are all series that I think of as mandatory watch material.
Cowboy bebop is meh. But Trigun is way above it imo.
@@Snoozytube I can agree with that, but I still think everbody should see all those series at least once.
@@Snoozytube Hmm... It gives a good shot with realism with at least a bright side sprinkled in. But I do like Trigun's conflict more haha
@@hikaritenshi2825 huh? I was saying that Trigun was better. Not cowboy bebop.
Nice video man. Wolfwoods story killed me growing up watching this. When he sits in front of the altar and questions his choices in life with that cross... soulcrushing.
I've always loved Trigun. And Vash is one of my favorite characters. To have an in-depth analysis on the series (more so on Vash himself) definitley a joy. Also it doesn't hurt to have a fellow believer as a TH-camr.
Dude yeah it's really glad to hear from a fellow believer. I find a lot of Christians on TH-cam are really busy bein focusing purely on "Christian" things and that is awesome! But I believe God is God of everything and that includes storytelling, so I always wanted to kind of take a critical lense from Christianity and look at storytelling that way!
This is easily the most inspiring thing I have heard in some time. I think, all these years later, why a girl I used to know tried to get me into this series, why I enjoyed it so much. Thank you. You have given me both a loftier and more reachable goal. 😊
The Fundamental Flaw of Philosophy tells us "Whether something is hard means absolutely nothing about whether it's right or wrong". Ultimately Vash stuck to his ideals even if it was proven to him that he cannot keep them perfectly, because he realized that what he wanted to fight for wasn't proven wrong just because Perfect Pacifism is impossible.
Don't you mean absolute pacifism? Because I'm a little confused because pacifism in the field of political philosophy has at least 3 definitions, them being absolute pacifism, which a rejection of all violence, conditional pacifism, which rejects some forms of violence with the exception of self-defense, and pacifism, which sees violence such as war and peace as in-twined. Also, epistemologically speaking, this depends on the definition of pacifism from culture to culture or anthropologically as well. Case in point, a critique of pacifism is only possible if it is defined on what the meaning is.
Great analysis!! I watched Trigun in High school and liked it but definitely did not notice the deeper levels you discussed. This video made me appreciate it even more. Hats off to you.
Trigun & Cowboy Bebop are amazing animes. Absolute masterpieces
I absolutely loved your review. I like to study theology, and as I watched this show, I recognized that there was something special about it, although I was having trouble summarizing myself. Your review does just that. I loved the quote from Lewis. Mere Christianity is probably my favorite book besides Holy scripture. I’ve often thought about that quote, and how it applies life’s challenges,the example of Trigun really puts that perspective. God help us to always make the best possible choices, pursue holiness, and through God’s mercy and grace - get back up when we fall down. Keep up the good work. Grace to you.
By grace alone
Through faith alone
In Christ alone
To God alone be the glory
I remember viewing this anime as a kid, it actually changed my view of life, and kind of "broke something" in me at first, I tought so deeply on many things and really opened my mind in terms of all the different ways people see and feel everything
This was an amazing analysis on one of my favorite animes and you actually had me tearing up at the end. God bless you and I hope you have a wonderful life full of LOVE AND PEACE!!!!
YOO I wasn't expecting quotes from CS Lewis
Any chance I get to quote CS Lewis I will take!
Snartleflush. Right?!? I had just read mere Christianity and this video brought that whole concept home.
You just won yourself a subscriber. What a wonderful, in-depth, and refreshing analysis of my favorite anime. Few people see it for what it is. Thank you so much for this video.
Outstanding analysis. Kudos for quoting Lewis. There's a novel with another pacifist main character, Daniel Keyes Moran's "The Long Run". I liked it on first reading, and it's got some great ideas and scenes--but in the end, Trent was not a model for the rest of us--he had powers we do not. So does Vash, but he resolves the problem in an entirely different, and much more satisfying way.
Don't worry about spoilers, I have the supernatural ability of selective goldfish memory when it comes to spoilers.
Wow wish I did lol I stumble across spoilers by accident all the time and then ruin whole arcs for myself
haha
Well we are talking about spoiling an anime that is what 20 years old or more by now? That said it is a crime so few people even know it exist. Basically if it didn't air on Adult Swim people barely knew about it outside of the more hard core anime fan.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming IDK, there is this idea seeded into newer anime fans that older anime is bad. The differences in tone, direction, style and presentation are vast enough to where I often hear timeless classics being written off all the time. The anime collapse of the mid 2000's has a lot to do with it as many great older titles are still trapped in licensing hall. Many newer fans wouldn't even have had the option to watch most older titles when they first got into anime due to localized versions of anime being completely inaccessible at the time. Wolf's rain just got rereleased, what? Last year? Not spoiling is just a positive in-community thing to do.
@@earlyman7439 It always breaks my heart to see older anime ignored or put down. Armitage 3 Polymatrix was one of the first anime's I ever bought a DVD for. In fact it came with my first DVD player. Yet it gets like a 2-3 star ratting on most sites. It had a deep story and the English dub was well done by big name actors.
Luckily for a lot of those anime's with licensing problems there are a lot of sources online to let you watch them, even if it's a big of a legal grey area. Still the fact they are not official, and wont' be on things like Netflix or Crunchyroll kinds of means most people won't ever hear of them.
This has been one of my favorites since I first saw it. It was nice to relive it briefly through this analysis.
Have not watched this show in years but the ideology with how it is presented in this show is something to behold. I love the take on the Superman trope and how touching inner redemption is handled.
Great analysis!!!!!! There are some powerful quotes that I will definitely be bookmarking from you!
Keep up the fantastic work!!!!!
Well done analysis, your closing statements definitely hit the nail on the head. I'm looking forward to more from you.
This philosophy is used in Vinland Saga too, Viking themed anime. Pretty good.
I really wish Kenshin would've come to this conclusion.
Loved your look at the moral dilemmas in Trigun. Thought provoking and interesting. Wonderful insight!
Thank you so much! I really love this anime and thought it deserved a breakdown^^
Trigun = ‘Rurourin Kenshin’ in the wild west?
Kinda, but minus the remorse. Vash isn't atoning the way Kenshin is. Vash was born pure, raised pure by Rem, and remains pure in a hostile world. Desperately. Kenshin is holding back, while Vash is holding on. It's a solid comparison, though
Ironic, i remember Kenshin's voice actor was the one who voiced Lagato. Ironic huh?
Yes
the "love and peace!" at the end was a very nice touch! good analysis, man!
our new motto "LOVE AND PIECE!"
Such a great vid from you. You taught me the idea of pacifism in Vash and how we people can adapt it in our lives. Saying from the 1st year philosophy college student thanks for a lesson you brought out from this masterpiece anime. May the god bless you.
Glad it was helpful!
Dude, I watched this when I was in grade school. Loved every minute of it.
I watched the first episode a few years ago, was disappointed by the lolsorandom humour, and never watched another episode...
Until seeing your video here. Watched the next five episodes recently; really enjoying it. Thanks for giving me reason to watch this further and see the depth behind the show's goofy exterior!
Yeah that first bit really does just seem very "WOAH ZANY AMIRITE?!" But I think it does a good job getting you to accept the "normal" state of the characters so the dark turn can hit that much harder
This is well done. A few more points:
Vash's philosophy, taken to this extreme, is also driven by his guilt. He is a living weapon like Knives, as he sees it, created to kill, so both to make sure he's different from Knives and to atone for his propensity for violence he takes pacifism to an extreme. But it isn't all altruism. It's partially guilt-driven.
Being forced to kill Legato forces him to question his motives. He needs to confront his guilt head on.
When he sees Meryl and Millie living out Rem's philosophy, he realizes that the philosophy was never the problem. He was. But it IS right to try and save everyone. That sometimes you can't doesn't mean that it's wrong to try.
This is what Wolfwood realizes, and no Trigun analysis is complete without mentioning Wolfwood. Wolfwood went into it with the wrong philosophy - that saving people meant killing the bad people. He never even tried to save everyone, and when he does, like Vash, he sacrifices his body for it...yet unlike Vash he isn't superhuman.
Good job overall.
He's not a living weapon, he's a power source.
@@buca117 He waa designed to be a power source but functionally he works as a living weapon, which is how Vash sees himself.
Hey, symbolism!
This world is made of Love and Peace!
Love and Peace! ✌️
Holy hell Dude, this is gold. Never quite thought of the philosophical aspects of this show, as I watched it before I really dove into those aspects of shows i watched.
The only anime I have ever known to teach the realist lesson in life is trigun
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING THIS ANIME THE ATTENTION IT FUCKING DESERVES I LOVE YOU
Edit: I'm so sorry that comment was on impulse after watching your opening but now that I've seen the entire video I must say you deserve FAR more subscribers than you have. Your sense of character building and story telling is fantastic and while you didn't touch on everything, like Wolfwood's journey, the final battle with Knives, etc, but given what you DID provide and how BEAUTIFULLY you touched on it, I loathe the fact I didn't find this sooner. Your video made me so openly, my good dude.
I'm subbed. I await anything else you put out, will probably check out that Smash video next
You're way too kind! And yeah I wanted so much to talk about knives and wolf wood but I decided to focus on Vash's pacifism for now so that maybe people who go to watch the show will still have something to surprise them!!!
I am so grateful you enjoyed this video! I'm still new to the analysis game and my next set of videos are a little different than this because I have a tradition of reviewing every game book and anime I went through in the year...once I finish that though I'm planning on diving full bore into more analysis! Also if you want more content somewhat like this from me I do suggest either my "dallen malna reviews" playlist or better yet my "stories that matter" playlist. Thank you again so much for the subscription and I'll do my best to earn your views!
I don't think Vash's story is meant to be about pacifism at all. It's more about the inevitability of making tough choices and realizing that practicing idealistic values can have consequences. I mean the end to the show is Vash realizing that he can't always get out of every sticky situation and kill no one in the process.
Damn...
You took my personal role model from one of my favorite animes of all time and gave me a window into it I had missed despite or perhaps because of my love for the series. Something I needed to hear at this point in my life. Giving my best and not getting where I want to be may be because I am 'dreaming of Ren' as opposed to accepting that I'm making the best decisions I can as I continue to walk towards the best solution I have in front of me.
Thank you for opening this up for me.
Whoo Hooo!!! Love and Peace! "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else." (1 Thessalonians 5:15) Fave anime by far.
I pose for you here a question:
If a man/woman/child were having their lives threatened, and no action short of the destruction of that threat will save them, would you sit by?
Would you not be as responsible, for refusing to do what needs be done, as the one pulling the trigger?
Yeah. To us, we have a moral decision. But Vash has another alternative.
That's the exact thing that Legato, a villain in the show, does to Vash later in the series.
Edit: 6:16 in the video is that very scenario you're talking about.
Nah that is always the dumbest excuse ever. It's not equal guilt to not save some one as the person who kills them. That doesn't mean there is no guilt or responsibility, but it's not equal. Thinking like that would only cause insane levels of guilt and stress to the point most people would kill themselves. Thousands if not millions of people die every day, many of which you could of helped. If you thought of all the children you could of fed with the hamburger you threw away or how giving just one more dollar to a charity would of saved a life.... There are more charities and more children than you can ever hope to help.
You are only ever responsible for your own actions, and even then you can't always foresee the consequences of them. Using your example say a man is holding up a family at gun point. You rush in and kill him to save the family. Good deed right? Well what if he was providing for his own starving family and now that he will never come home they will die in the streets in despair? You had no idea the back story behind the robber, and it might not of changed your mind either. Do the needs of the guilty give them a right to harm others?
Its really simple....If i have to pull the trigger i will, if i can't save them i just walk away....like a Coward? Yes, but cowards live longer....besides if there was nothing i could do to save them then its not my fault.
This is a situation where neither choice is morally pure. The argument, then, is over whether morality IS something that is pure. Be right 100% of the time? Is that the goal? Should we always be the best person we can be, the most pure of heart, to be moral? Or is it about trying?
Vash tried to be 100% pacifistic. In the end, he couldn't be. But once he realized that, he resolved to move forward and get as close to his goal as he could.
This breakdown could do with the concept of Platonic Ideals. In the end, the Ideal of something does not exist in the real world. But it's useful as a concept that we strive towards. Failure does not prevent us from striving again.
Put more simply: yeah, we would bear some responsibility if we refused to pull the trigger and watch others die as a result. And we would also bear responsibility as a killer if we chose to save others by killing. The meaning of the act, as a soldier protecting others, does not erase the deaths we cause by doing so. You're right, we would bear some responsibility if we refused to act.
(Also, I agree with the other commenters, please bring Wolfwood into this. I'll happily watch that longer video. He's essential tonthis conversation if you want anything more than an absolute bare-bones assessment).
Man knows... he knows that nothing will begin unless he speaks and nothing will change unless he moves
A little late to the video your analysis was fantastic also watching some of the most climactic moments of the show seriously gave me goosebumps I love the message of the show of purpose and morals
Vash’s gun is probably the best gun in anime especially the guns design.
Dc needs to take some notes on this especially with Batman
He fires his gun twice in the first episode while rolling down the hill to cut the ropes holing the insurance girls.
He throws rocks/debris to cut the ropes, since he is out of ammo. No shots fired in EP1.
@@A_Chewy_Boot knife actually
@@flashvincent1021 Was it? I don't remember him having a knife before, and the actual scene is not really clear enough to tell through the images. But I'll take this to be at least as possible as a rock. Either way, it was definitely not a gun.
@@A_Chewy_Boot The knife is in his right shoe.
@@fredfry5100 Ah, I see it now. Thanks for pointing it out. Still definitely not a gun.
Bro, this video was done really well, and I sincerely enjoyed you analysis. You’ve gotten yourself a new subscriber!
This video is making me go and watch the series for the several hundredth time.
vash is one of the most influential characters in my life. It's the idea I always want to strive for when it comes to everyone, so much is determined by circumstance when it comes to the types of people that come to be I don't see anyone with the moral authority to invalidate another's life no matter what they are or what they have done, and I know that I would likely succumb to emotional rage if something were to happen to the loves in my life by another's actions, that cannot however invalidate the idea behind such a idea.
Beautiful 💖
This is an INCREDIBLE video. Your channel is going to blow up I hope. Great job
You just made my day!!! Thank you so much for your kind words!
My first three anime were Akira, Cowboy Beboy, and Trigun. Special mention of one piece and DBZ.
Take a look at the hellsing ova, just for the laughs
Mine were Psycho-Pass, Violet Evergarden, and Orange.
I suggest Outlaw Star. As far as space things go it is far far superior to Cowboy Bebop. Robotech is also a classic series that frankly started most of the American anime.
Vash to me represents reconciliation, or, a life lived all of the time to find the best way to preserve life. Rare occasions sometimes require that life be taken. But above all else, live in peace with all.
Isn't Vash more like Batman than Superman then? Someone who refuses to kill despite the fact that it causes more harm to society than good, his arch-enemy is someone who wants him to kill and break his moral code, and fights by manipulating and setting up dire scenarios where he'll have to kill to survive.
There is a good argument to be made for that too, but I feel he is closer to superman in terms of how much stronger he is than everyone else. He could literally wipe out the planet even by accident of he isn't careful, so the dilemma is less...will he lose? And more...will he lose himself?
Hes both in essence. A god like being who could destroy the planet without a grain of effort who tries to never break his moral code by choosing to never kill regaurdless or how evil or how dispicable the actions the individual has commited, even if others end up dying because of this.
Superman also refuses to kill after Zod, and it unquestionably causes more harm to society than good, and he has numerous enemies that play off of that. Max Lord comes to mind. Batman vs Joker may be a more well known version of the story, but it's Superman's dilemma as well.
They're similar and polar opposites as well. Batman is driven by vengeance and is literally psychotic - he's as crazy as the villains he puts away and enjoys beating them to within an inch of their life. Vash is a true pacifist in that he tries to avoid conflict wherever possible but fails because seems motivated by love and an insane attachment to the idealism of Rem. While Batman has his "no-kill" rule (which doesn't apply to non-humanoid aliens), he doesn't care much for any of the people he meets or the villains he puts away.
Chairman Meow
Would Batman killing his more dangerous enemies really prevent harm to society?
I really enjoyed the way you broke this down. I love this anime and the deep themes layered there is. Well done and I look forward to more content like this!
Aside from speed racer this is one of the first animes I've ever scene. I truly love this anime
One of the greatest sermons I ever heard.
Judges 3:31.
Summed up simply as
"Do what you can, where you are, With what you have."
Anime that came to the states in the 90's and early 2000's was amazing. Very few titles hit store shelves, those that actually made it seemed to always be the best of the best. Now we are drowning under a sea of mediocrity. Even when we find amazing new shows, they end up being dead or discontinued. One set up "season" of 12 episodes and then nothing ever again.
Trigun was amazing not only because how well it tackled complex topics while having amazing humor but it also told a complete story with new characters and an original world in something like 26 episodes. It was designed to be complete after basically one full season. Newer shows tend to plan some epic 200 episode mega series like One piece, and then cancel it even if the manga keeps on going.
I will say the tendency of Anime to shift drasitcally in tone was always a scary thing though. Trigun, Eva, Full Metal Alchemist and so many other shows start off light and happy and then turn extremely dark and gritty. It made watching them almost depressing at times with little to no warning of such dark themes were comming.
i have honestly never even heard of this show before, but i think ill watch it now and come back to this video once thats done
I watched trigun 20 times already, the soundtrack, the atmosphere and the fucking characters are soo on point, it never gets old.
I normally don’t go in for these types of videos but you did a decent job. Props
Minus the Theological grounding (itself unable to address the Euthyphro honestly) the Secular message in video of reducing harm and spreading kindness infectiously is one vehemently appreciated! Kudos!
The Euthyphro has been answered since before it was asked. The objective nature of good is the nature of God Himself. Good cannot exist independently of God's nature so the question is really a nonsense one. It would be like asking "are the laws of physics real because of reality or because of physics." Or the ever silly "can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it?"
Asking a logically impossible question does nothing in terms of arguing against good or God.
I am glad you enjoyed the video!
@@DallenMalna Many have tried to address it from a Theistic framing, but it's reduced to special pleading and circular logic. Secular Humanism acknowledges that goodness is a product values deigned by the sufficiently intelligent agent and expressed in sharing space within society - the same with badness for fluidity sake - all rooted in reducing or causing unnecessary harm as a means and end to itself.
Again as an aside, Trigun was my childhood and with time comes more appreciation of its message, to which I appreciate your overall capture!
It just looses its power when relying on unfalsifiable models to root morality, which itself is inherently subjectve and contingent upon values, which are created within capable minds and the shared space wherein shared.
An example might be that of Vegeta in Dragonball Z. He's about to sacrifice himself in hopes of destroying Majin Buu, and asks Piccolo if he'll be able to retain his body in the Afterlife. Piccolo essentially replies with noting the slim chance of that, given all the evils commited up until that point. Vegeta chuckle shrugs it off and commences Final Atonement anyways, because his values were with family, friends, and maybe Earthlings in general over whatever happens to him after death.
Secular Humanism is like that, rooted in Empathy, daily acts unseen demanding a flood of emotion if broadcasted with no Theistic model to declair morality - which again is not answered without special pleading and circular reasoning.
It's doubtful all of this will connect, our brains crave consistency and any hint of cognitive dissonance tends to result in the backfire effect erecting a fortified defense digging deeper in - all very natural. I was raised in cultural Christianity for near 30 years before quite painfully yer honestly reasoning out of it with ample reflection and research, and made many apologies to people who I might have occosted in unaware ignorance. Life is a journey and all that~
Anyways.... this carried on longer than intended and typing on mobile so more delays, but AGAIN your overall video presentation was magnificient, and if still keem to discuss the Euthyphro, morality systems, or religion, or philosohy in general, there are no objections!
*edit, some mistakes with senstances, still missed some prolly, on mobile in a stream of thoughts ^^;
"no self-respecting weeb"
10/10 top kek
That was beautiful, just like Trigun. The manga intensifies the philosophies present in the anime even further and is my all-time favorite story. Have you seen The Irresponsible Captain Tylor? You might find Tylor just as interesting as Vash. I tend to liken Vash to Jesus and Tylor to the Buddha. They are two of my all-time favorite characters.
This is really good! Well analyzed. Good voice over. Highly appreciate your work man. Just subscribed.
at first I loved Vash(before watching the anime) but after watching it I realized Wolfwood is my favorite
That was a "We're actually plants. I know." Kind of an awesome.
Great video! It's a well done, thought out, in depth analysis of Trigun.
While this is kinda true, it left something VERY important: Vash didnt recover on is own, it was Meryl who help him, people were VERY close to lynch him after knowing is true identity and Meryl stood to the town people, preaching forgiveness and Vash saw in her the same thing he saw in REM, THEM is were he figured out the true: Pacifism is not some mesure were you need to be perfect, is a proyect, one were you want to strive for.
And what you said about REm is highlight by Vash cock, which is red because of REM and a symbol of Vash burden, when he finally take care of knive in the lass episode, he take it and leave there while the imagine of REM is looking in the sky, meaning he finally left is pass.
Finally the series is VERY step into christian though, Vash and Knives being a version of Cain and Abel, the idea of a garden were both show their inclinations(protect all humans/kill them all) and the fact is the last place in the series and were both brother fight is clearly obvious of garden of eden, there is also the Gun Ho being call demons, Wolfwood being a cynical preacher who dosent belive what he preach(in contrast to Vash, who is belive in no kill even when he is call the human Typhoon) and so on.
LOVE AND PEACE! Trigun and FSN double up as the greatest super hero stories of all time. Vash takes it much further than Shirou though in his devout pacifistic ideal.
I love shirou I love shirou too much that I wish he was a girl and I could fap to him. But yeah vash is truly one of the best out there
The scene with the butterfly and the spider is one of the best anime scenes ever. Also the legato scene
I love this series! Thanks for analyzing it! Totally underrated! And great content! It'd be great if you made more like this!
Never thought about the superman angle. Cudoss, good point
I love your analysis of this awe inspiring series. Even though I have watched it for free I bought the series to show support. Can you dissect the philosophical themes in Ergo Proxy by episodes please. It will be heavy stuff but rewarding nonetheless. Keep up your cool work man
Maybe other anime say hold on to your hopes while retaining your realism, but Trigun probably is one of the few anime which actually shows this. Other shows probably take this belief for granted.
Suggestion for review: Haibane Renmei. Non-action series with lovely soundtrack, deep philosophy, and an absolutely exquisite way of asking its questions, and revealing its answers. (Though not all questions will be answered.) Must be watched cold, absolutely no spoilers, and then watched again, because things that passed unnoticed the first time through will glow with meaning the second.
I'm intrigued. Real life is a bit hectic right now but I am sure to give it a look once I am able to!
@@DallenMalna I should have said, it's only thirteen episodes, half a season.
@@50srefugee ooo that's good too!
I loved this series! Thank you for your thoughtful video about its morals and message
Finally some good Trigun analysis
wow, very interesting topic to see through the philosophy in a story. you should do more video like this dude, awesome!
That's it!!!
I'm binge-ing that whole series again tonight!
You said "he doesn't even fire his gun until the fifth episode," but if you watch closely on the first episode, after the girls are kidnapped by the big mohawk guy, Vash comes to save them and ends up tumbling down a hill towards them. You can just barely catch a glimpse of two bullets flying off of him to cut the ropes and allow the girls to run. The scene is shown again in a later episode as Meryl recalls when they first met Vash.
You're absolutely correct! I should have specified "he doesn't even fire his gun at an opponent until the fifth episode," but whatcha gonna do? Thanks for pointing out that little detail though! I hope you enjoyed the video even with my mistake!
I always thought that was a knife he threw to cut the ropes, hence the lack of gunshot sfx.
A classic which I've used to get several people into anime, which is funny because I picked it up at a convention at a bit of a whim
I am in no way an anime fan or remotely obsessed with Japan but Trigun is fucking awesome.
Have to say that despite how serious/emotional the fight with Legato was the most i took from it was how much easier the "kill the spider to save the butterfly" situation is when the butterfly is two chicks.
i love this anime very much, it made a huge inpact on my chieldhood, and many times i saw myself crying because of the beautiful and sad moments it had.
That was a phenomenal writeup on the series. LOVE AND PEACE
this analysis was really well done. great job man. you tackled some aspects i didn’t catch on my own. i notice your channel is very small but the quality of this video doesn’t show it. i love the love and peace bit at the end. a request for a future video would be neon genesis evangelion
Eva is so hard to tackle but I will likely get around to it once the final film releases. I'm a little nervous to ever make that video because while I love eva I think i love it for wildly different reasons than most people. Still, stick around once that final film comes out and I'll give it my best^^
My next couple of videos are well overdue year recaps. But after that ill get back to analysis. I've been thinking about tackling Disney's Beaty and the Beast believe it or not XD.
Either way thank you so much for the comment!
You killed it bro!! Nice, one of your best 😎
I know it's a huge classic but It's still on my "plan to watch list" haha it's very hard to stay up to date with the latest anime, so going back to your history book is even harder haha great video man keep up the good work 👌
Thanks! I know what you mean. Finding time to watch the classics is a PAIN.
I'm not a huge anime guy. But I implore you... WATCH THIS SERIES. I watched it in my formative years, when I was going through some really, REALLY dark times. It truly helped to mold the very basis of my morality in ways that I can't properly quantify or justify through meaningless TH-cam comment. Seriously... make some time for it, my man.
Yea man it's only like 24 ep long. You wont regret watching this
How you went 12 minutes without mentioning wolfwood is beyond me
I choked on my drink at what he said at the end I wasn't expecting that whatsoever
Loved the ending part of the review, God bless you.
Sometimes doing the right thing can be worthless while doing the wrong thing can be priceless