THE BEER IS WARM AND BOTH GLYCOL UNIT'S ARE DOWN
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- The customer called saying the beer was warm and I found that both glycol units were down, it was a bit confusing to figure out but once I did it made sense what happened.
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I work with the procon pumps in the beverage industry. I'm willing to bet that the dark glycol is caused by the impeller starting to break down. That's usually caused when the pump runs without fluid.
Devon Reed I was going to say the same thing. Happens all the time.
Perhaps someone added tap water to them. In the right condition regular water can become acidic in a cooling system.
Yep, happens all the time on pop systems....
I work with Procon and Fluidotech pumps in France. Their lifetime for us is 18 to 24 months and the the impellers usually shit the bed and leave the liquid black.
The black stuff is the carbon in the pump breaking down
Propylene Glycol should not have a fruity smell, it should have almost no smell at all. If it has a fruity smell, it's likely because there is serious bacterial growth or contamination. Additionally, gycol needs to be changed on a regular basis (every couple of years or so) because the corrosion inhibitors get used up. Once the corrosion inhibitors get used up, you'll start getting excessive corrosion of pumps and heat exchangers.
Those gycol units probably could use a complete flush and replacement with new glycol. You'd want something food-safe "USP" grade fluid, like DOW's Dowfrost or similar
We had exactly what you describe, happen on the geothermal hvac system in our home. The glycol sat in the system for 8+ years. System installer said the glycol would last 20+ years... he was wrong. The stuff turned burgundy, then turned black, filled the house with an awful smell, then began corroding numerous components in the system. Dozens of service calls over 10 months and the installer was never able to get the system to work correctly again. Living in a rural area, hvac contractors are few and far between. Ended up having the geothermal system ripped out and replaced with a traditional propane furnace / hvac system. Much happier now with the traditional gas furnace.
It smells a lot like tequila I think
@@susank7680 usually on large glycol systems a company would test and treat it (adding inhibitors)to keep it from going corrosive
I am 100% certain that all of McDonalds glycol units on their ice cream machines have a fruity smell brand new. I say it's more like a fruity athletes feet smell, really similar to what "Stop Leak" for HVAC smelled like when it first came out.
and safeguard needs to be put in place to stop tampering as this can be one of the biggest problems
Love when you go off on a tangent thanks for sharing
Heyy am from Jamaica, I have a depolama in HVAC..... I watch your videos everyday am learning a lot🙂🙂 really hope to come to the states to work one day🥇
So that coupling serves two purposes. 1. To prevent the motor from damage should the impeller lock up. 2. To prevent electrolysis between the dissimilar metals. The impeller assemblies probably need to be regularly taken apart and cleaned. They get a bio film buildup over time.
Yup cheaper and better to twist off a coupling than damage a shaft or overheat the windings. And galvinization is a bitch.
Don't forget the main purpose of couplers like that. Taking up shaft misalignment.
The motor and pump are never going to be quite exactly in line, and so there's always some wobble, and if it's metal to metal, you eat things up, seals, bushings, couplers, etc.
The plastic or elastomeric coupler allows minor offset without instant damage.
@@ke6gwf Agreed as well. Can compensate for *some* different angles. Useful buggers and should be replaced for sure, whether the pump is old or new.
Easy fix my friend, the glycol level is low if you look inside the tank you will see the evaporator is not completely covered. ( it's like not having blower running or dirty evaporator on an ac unit, causing it to freeze up). Most all power glycol units require the reservoir to be completely full to the overflow point, and they come with overflow tank. When you stop the pumps the glycol fluid will drink back into the reservoir so let both pump run a bit and then refill the reservoir back up with all pumps in service. The glycol is easy to change just remove the return hose and let it pump out into a bucket while adding new glycol. I consider the glycol fluid as part of the refrigeration system and not part of the beer companies equipment. The glycol lines leak a lot because they normally have just hose clamps that loosen overtime do to temperature change. Let the beer company fix all the leaks! I work for a college football stadium in Texas and service several Perlick power units and most warm beer issue are caused by low glycol levels. Hope this helps and I've learned a lot from watching your training videos, thanks.
I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 8/10/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) on TH-cam come on over and check it out and no worries if you can’t make the live show it will post as a normal video afterwards th-cam.com/video/XMm6nwq_vgc/w-d-xo.html
I am sad for I only have one LIKE to give. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Buddy when you're good you're good . They always call the best. And from what I've seen . You are pretty damn good. Wish I could come a learn a few things from you. Keep it going hero . You're good 😀👍🍺
Brilliant video! Love the glycol vids 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I'm late.. but great video Chris. Great explanations for those. Thanks for sharing.
Perlick sells a special glycol that is pink in color. It supposedly has a pump lubricant and other additives in it. Back in 1985, we charged $35 per gallon for it. I see it being sold online for $40.
i recently moved to Washington state in March! No company has hired me even though i have a California Hvac Cert., Epa Type 1,2 , and 1 1/2 years of experience as a industrial/ commercial installer. I decided to start doing my own servicing for people out here. i love watching your videos you always give me more things to think about when i troubleshoot. you are the best at explaining!
Yet another great display of troubleshooting skills.
I had never even seen a glychol unit, a company I was working for sent me on a system much like this one and told me, "You've fixed a lot of things that you've never worked on, just figure it out, and call in if you need help" I had the thing running after a little time and another tech came in to help right at the end. It wasn't really a big deal, was a little confusing at first, but kept at it. I basically did the exact same thing you did, cleaned out the debris and put them back together and tightened them down to make them work till we got the parts, I also put on a white rodgers t-stat to get the one going that had a large difference in the temps, which I think you did that in another glychol video, till the dixell electronic control came in. Thanks for the videos, they tend to help keep me sharp on some of this equipment I don't work on regularly and keep the knowledge forefront and I have noticed on some things, I mentally reference your video at times and rather than having to dig really deep to remember, it comes a lot faster due to your references. They(Your videos) really work, so Thank You!
This poor daikin mini-split makes me sad everytime
Hi There! I gotta tell you, I really enjoy these videos that you make. They are AWESOME because they walk you through the service call and explain in detail step by step what is going on, and why you are doing what you are doing. I'm a newbie and I find these videos interesting and very helpful. I do have a question though - when there is an issue you are not sure how to fix, or why something is not working correctly, how do you discuss that with the manager/ owner? How do you explain to them that you are not certain what will fix it, but that you can try to fix it - and then tell them how much it will cost to try and fix it.
Thanks for the great videos!
Im so thankful I came across your channel!!!!
Love the reference made for “piss” for beer. I’m with ya in terms of consuming good tasting beer. Love your videos and learn so much!
We so appreciate you continuing to not just entertain us but educate us as well, THANK YOU ! Please keep up keeping us invested in your endeavors..
Great video. I would recommend changing out glycol n cleaning the unit. Remove glycol n u can clean glycol lines with beer line cleaning solution like BLC or DAC mixed with hot water. Then rinse out with cold water. Then add new glycol with proper mixture.
I really like the diversity of your videos that illustrate the scope of the HVAC field. The first facility that I worked at was a large hotel/resort with 2 restaurants. I regularly worked on everything from: 125 ton RTU's, 4 different kind of boilers, chillers, glycol line coolers, PTAC's, Make-up air units, ice machines, and every different kind of cooler/freezer. Additionally, we called the "chingous" you were talking about at the end of the video a lovejoy.
Ha thanks so much for the nice words bud!! I will be going live on TH-cam this evening 8/10/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from emails, TH-cam comments and the Livechat, Come on over and check it out. th-cam.com/video/XMm6nwq_vgc/w-d-xo.html
The motor saver sounds like a torque limiter to avoid a jammed pump from causing the motor to stall.
When the pump jams up the save physically breaks and lets the motor freewheel. Replacing the plastic motor saver is cheaper than an overheated motor and perhaps something to add to the van you send out to those glycol calls.
it could also be to prevent galvanic corrosion though I don't know why you would have a large peice of plastic to do that instead of a thin coating material. So i think your guess is more likely.
Thanks for going through your steps with as much detail as you can with the time constraints you have in every video. I appreciate it. That's why I watch, I learn a thing here or there that can come in handy later.
Great job sir I know it was frustrating but you figured it out. Like you always say you appreciate us, I like to say I appreciate you for explaining and taking us along with you. Take care and be safe.
Hi Chris we here in Aussie land call them worm drives,on the motor side
Well Spotted Chris, had very similar problem recently! Glycol system is easy, 2 lines for flow/return usually 15mm lines. Cobra taps have separate lines usually 3/8 lines flow/return for cooling! 4 lines in the python (beerline) for cooling chills the beer in the lines all the way too the taps & also chills the cobra taps. Beautiful when installed but over time they get really dirty under the counter in the bar! Refractometer very helpful on the correct mix, we usually add an extra little bit for luck!! Helps unit to relax more on the cooling side of things. The glycol deteriorates over time if not serviced. Definitely once a year for service otherwise there’s problems.
Love the vids 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻
and those lines if left uninsulated will sweat like pigs!
Drinking game: Take a shot every time he says, "That's interesting."
I'm in ... Lol
@@Eddy63 RIP.
I’m smashed after 10 minutes! 🤪
I'm in the IT industry and fellow employees make fun of me for I always say "That's interesting" when I am trying to figure out what the issue is when I am troubleshooting something.
How about every time he says Chingus.
Good work.
I just found this channel Love it you explain it very clearly :) Im learning alot from you thanks I am from Massachusetts
That was cool that you got a camera shot of the refractometer
That piece that sticks out of the pump is called a tang.
Interesting i did not know that, thanks bud
Though this pump is not for glycol, it uses the same terminology.
www.ebay.com/itm/222666044231
I think he covered it just fine with chingas....
I still have a drawer full of those tangs from when we ran draft to sixty taps at a horse racing track... god I do not miss that system
Chingas or chingadera. Either one.
So this isn't for bars that have kegs under the bar, its for HUGE bars with those dozens of taps that keep kegs in a separate fridge, and lines have to be cooled as they go from that huge fridge to the bar? That's crazy, who would of thought. Thanks for showing us!
The Beverage People...
Don't they have that hit called BEER😂
Talkin' bout the B-E-E-R!
You need too get that glycol clean. Drian rinse drain rinse drain rinse.Those procon pumps are very easy to fail- the fins will break and thats part of the black bits in there. Also Slime molds will grow - the fix is only use a good product like Dowfrost or Micomatics glycol which have inhibitors. And of course it needs to be food grade! The pumps also have filters on them - you should check them too. Also make sure they turn the units off when they clean lines. I like a -5deg glycol to product. FYI- im not HVAC but Ive been a Brewmaster for over 20 years. edit- yes use those motor savers! LOL yeh its a separate run - look at Foxx equipment catalogue for a example. Lifes too short to drink crappy beer! Micomatic and Perlick are the top suppliers to use.
Why do I find these videos more entertaining than anything else on youtube?
Big Clive's channel is good too.
I would recommend to you to digging deeper into glycol units to make sure you understand how to properly maintain the gylcol lines, pumps etc.
Might not land you a lot of customers who want you to do the maintenance on the glycol, but you can offer it to them instead of having someone else come out to do it.
Additionally it helps you do the troubleshooting if you completely have your head wrapped around those systems. :)
I am very interested in doing more with them but training techs to work on them is a problem...... I will discuss this on my Livestream this evening 8/10/20 @ 5:PM (pacific time) on TH-cam come on over and check it out and no worries if you can’t make the live show it will post as a normal video afterwards th-cam.com/video/XMm6nwq_vgc/w-d-xo.html
@24:00 the plastic coupler serves as a mechanical fuse. If the pump ever seizes then it doesn't take out the motor or more.
Not sure if they have different practices when people clean the lines in the us compared to Australia but we turn the unit off to stop freezing up the water when cleaning the lines. A lot of people just turn off the pumps which freezes up the evap as there isn’t no movement and the compressor left on. I dare say they just have the pumps off while doing the clean.
Excellent job. Going outside our actual scope of work is always a challenge especially when the customer is relying on you because they do not know whom to actually call like the local distributor lol. It reminds me of complaints I have read about with plumbers not being able to repair a heatpump water heater. Well yeah they for the most part do not even carry gauges much less those type of controls and safeties.
Open loop system using non OEM glycol or specific type will make corrosion and will turn the colour grey/black.
I remember someone not adding Dowfrost glycol into an Hillphoenix GMD case and just wrecked everything.
Had to change all the pan/ heat exchanger ( filled with small black corroded residue )
I can't remember the product I used to clean the unit but even after 5 full clean and flush with 100% new proper glycol the damage were done and the new pan blocked after a month.
But yeah, if the exchanger froze well it's normal that the pump overheat and deteriorate the glycol
Interesting and good job from one who know his trade for sure = enjoyment to watch.
My guess is they were flushing the beer lines with hot water for long enough to warm up the glycol temperature which would raise the heat exchanger temperature which would cause the refrigeration to open up and chill it. Then the motors spin up to compensate but the couplings broke and it continues to just chill the tank without warm glycol to run over the exchanger. Just super chills that spot and the refrigerant has a continual pressure/temperature drop and ices up. I'd say it basically all goes back to the motor couplings and the pumps needing servicing really badly (or replaced.) The faulty sensor didn't help things either.
It’s great to find someone who likes beer enough to taste it 👍
Interesting video. We use refractometers in the automotive trade for engine coolant, battery acid, and DEF fluid. We always pronounced it like “thermometer”. But same kit made by Robinair.
As someone who is allergic to everything, I would recommended to bring a shop vac instead of a leaf blower to such a small room. Inhaling all the stuff may be not the best for you.
Your good, don't have to do everything, just get it working.
You really make me want one of those small blowers. I work on some server room units where the condensers are on a mezzanines inside of a warehouse or factory. Currently I drag a small air compressor up there, but it's kind of a pain.
On the pump that you replace looks like they have a very fine mesh filter that is fitted in the brass acorn nut which have a problem blocking up when glycol is used in the system which needs to be cleaned out about every 3 months to stop it from jamming up.
Nice job and video
To me, black comes from O-rings and hoses that have disintegrated. What nitrile rubber is in the system?
That's a good point maybe where the impeller or its seals have eaten themselves
The impellers on the pumps are carbon. When the pumps wear or breaks the carbon pieces flow though the system and the carbon debris settles in low points of the tubing run. when the system is static for a while, then started back up. It dislodges and flows the carbon debris though the system.
As an alarm guy, I appreciate your stance on duct det's. Likewise I prefer the HVAC guy make the shutdown connection to their controls.
Those pumps look like they are gear pumps, and if so, don't have centrifugal impellers. Gear pumps are positive displacement pumps and can build up tremendous pressure if the flow is blocked while operating, causing pipes to burst. The safety coupling between the motor and the pump serves to protect both the motor and the piping system. It is extremely important to both maintain the quality and quantity of the pump fluid. If they ever run dry, they are toast, as I suspect the pumps in this video are.
I always assumed the glycol lines break down causing that black gunk. I've replaced a lot of glycol lines because of nasty glycol and poor flow...
Love your videos. There should be no apostrophe in "unit's".
LOL When I see the thumbnail, I'm so sure that it's gonna be the one with Daikin mini-split. And I'm not wrong! hahaha
kinda think the "black" was the remains of the pump parts and I'm guessing the manager or someone adjusted the sensor settings while trying to "fix" it. see sensor type and offset adjustments. fun puzzle.
24:31 It sounds to me like you're describing a separator sleeve that sits in between the motor shaft and the pump to keep the metals from touching each other which prevents Galvanic Corrosion from eating the 2 dissimilar metals.
Either that or it's a coupler between the motor and pump that's designed to protect the motor and pump from damage if the pump jets jammed or frozen by breaking (like the sheer pin that connects a propeller to the outboard motor shaft, it breaks if the prop hits a rock preventing expensive damage to the gearbox)...
still have a drawer full of the those brass couplers,... thinking back and remembering the corrosion that formed in that cavity that the plastic chingas was an upgrade made long after we ditched stadium draft service.
Great customer service ! Big picture ..
P@ss Beer love it, keep up the great content, I learn a lot from your videos, thank you
Thanks !
Ha! Piss beers 🍻 Love that phrase!
Im at 10:20 . In my experience the glycol system needs to be turned off when flushing the beer lines as the water and solution can freeze up and split lines if not done
If beer lines are left empty, or with water only for long periods of time(seasonal operations or specialty draft line left empty because of supply) that can happen. General flushing the beer guys are not hanging around long enough to freeze and split the lines.
I wonder if there is a flow switch in those units. I would also check to see if that glycol amount is too much for the pumps. Rule of thumb.....more glycol = less flow.
Very interesting video 👍 that was was tripping me out
You didn't have a part on your van? OMG, I think that's a first! J/K I'm always amazed at the parts stock you keep on your van. I mean, who keeps a glycol system pump and motor on their truck/van? Uh, no one? Then, if you don't have something, you're able to acquire the parts you need from suppliers. Y'all must have some amazing parts houses in your area. The parts houses I use in my area , many times, don't have 8145-20 defrost controls, much less digital temperature controllers. It's like refrigeration doesn't exist with them. Enough of my rants. Great job (again), Chris!
We need Chingus shirts made. I’d buy one lol 23:48
Good job and I like your job and I like you
Nice video
Glycol shouldn’t have a smell. At least the glycol that you’re using. Others do smell, but not like fruit. Seems like bacterial growth because the growth inhibitors are gone. Needs to be flushed, have a bacterial solution run through to kill growth, and replace with new.
it's always smelled a bit sweet to me, even the pure food grade, but it's probably more the inhibitors or lack of them and other contaminates in that mess.
@@throttlebottle5906 it taste sweet that I do know.
I'd imagine those 'motor savers' serve two purposes; prevent corrosion from dissimilar metals, and prevent the motor burning out if a pump stalls for whatever reason (corrosion, debris, etc)
Its a good day when a video is posted
One of my concerns were that the flush with warm water caused it to intensify the cooling so that the glycol mixed water did freeze and caused the final breakdown of the pumps. It did look a bit like it was just a question of time before they did break down.
But maybe it's a good idea to read up on the recommended glycol mix or at least have that info at hand somewhere.
Glycol is eating the impellers, breaking down the rubber probably.
Piss beer - love it, real beer 57F (14C) is good for me, need to send you some from over the pond.....
I'm sure i would love it. I'm a brown ale fan, and I also love hints of coffee in my beer
It took 23 minutes but we finally have CHINGUS
😂🤣😂🤣
Literally reading this comment when he first said it. LMAO!
Multiple CHINGUSES confirmed. lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I believe that a chingus is a dingus mad in China.
These pump heads last for around 6-8 years. Since 3 years the company from turkey that Produce these heads change something that we have to replace the Pump heads every 2 years. Dirty water indicates often a Bad pump head that will fail.
Got to love those Procon pumps
The glycol color changes when a pump blows up. The pumps have carbon plates. When they blow, it sends pieces of the carbon bits through the system which changes the color of the glycol. If you take the fittings off the pump and shine a flash light into the pump you can physically see it blown. Also when you remove the pump from the carbonator motor. Look at the shaft (aka chingas) of the pump if its the shape of a diamond the pump is seizing and needs to be replaced.
Maybe the glycol lines meet at some point and the extremely cold glycol from the one failing unit stopped the other glycol pumps as well, by feeding them with slushy glycol.
Once the pumps are locked up, the temperature reading is rising because it just reads the air temperature in the top of the tank instead of a glycol temperature.
To avoid this the units either have to read the rpm of the motors and stop operating the compressor when the pumps are not working or the temperature probe needs to be embedded into the heat exchanger section, to read the coldest point of the gylcol instead of reading the flow from the pumps.
Another great video
👍good vid bud. I usually try yo use glycol with inhibitors, if not I would add. Cheers 🍻
Good vid Chris ...
The measure of success is "Well it didn't blow up on me."
I'm assuming those pumps have ceramic seals? If so, that is a potential source of the contamination, and also of the smegma that has contaminated the union between the pumps and motors.
It it not just you that get’s confusing with the glycol system, some other HVACR tech can get confused with it too
maybe they shut the pumps off to do hot water flushing and left the unit's running to freeze up or the pumps lack of flow let it freeze?
Those Glycol baths r large for a reason. Those units look like there servicing multiple beer towers n multiple beer lines 20-30 plus lines. Low levels of Glycol in bath can create problems especially if the length of the run from keg to tap is long. Not enough Glycol recirculating.
My guess would be that very high temp of glycol caused some decomposition of some additives or make them reactive to cause some problems and react with something. Just a theory.
These coolant should be definitively replaced. It is dirty.
"It didn't blow up on me!" That's a good thing!
Seems like the dirty glycol could be from the pump vanes wearing out.
Since they didnt rinse glycol I'm thinking dirty look has to be from pumps. But pump change out will only work for a short while.
1 idea , add some coffee mugs to ur merch 👍
Wonder if the warmed up glycol during the customers cleaning procedure made the pumps run a bit tighter and break the safety coupling?
Maybe.....
I Don’t Do Glycol Systems as a Rule But i Believe When Glycol Gets Old it Becomes Acidic & Will Start Eating The Metal Fittings used in the System. Brass , Stainless Steel etc. ,
I Have Seen it in Marine applications. I Would Recommend You Get some Ph strips and do a Ph Test on the Glycol too as u are Going to the Trouble With a Refractomer. Electrolysis can occur and Start Eating Pumps away if Pumps are Not all Bonded / Grounded Together. Ground straps Need to be attached to Pumps , Motors , etc. I Would Recommend You call the Factory and Run it By tech support. Black Glycol symptoms , cures , Grounding , Proper Ph Level for Glycol , and Recommended Glycol Change intervals. Good vid ! Like # 111
Isn’t the coupling between the pump and the motor called a love joy coupling?
Morning Chris !!!! Can’t wait to watch the video brother , hardly ever this early in the comments lol
I just learned that the mixture of glycol and water actually has lower freezing point than any of the two. Interesting. Around 55% (by mass) of glycol (ethylene glycol) it reaches minimum of about -53 deg C. Where pure glycol is -13 deg C. For 60% (by mass) of propylene glycos it gets to about -60 deg C freezing point. The similar thing happens with some other alcohols and diols, like glycerine (glycerol), propylene glycol. Depending on concentration the water can be freezing out in the mixture, below the total freezing point. Really interesting. It looks like propylene glycol is used mostly because it is non toxic, and kind of safe in contact with food. Where the ethylene glycol is rather toxic (ingested 50g can probably kill a person).
Warm Beer sounds great and yes im an Englishman 😋🍻
I was wondering why one pump was plugged into the wall outlet instead of wired into the unit.
The previous tech was too lazy to hook it up to the glycol unit....
@@HVACRVIDEOS aint that always the case man. I work in telecom and I swear to god some of the shit you see in server rooms is just pure lazyness from people who dont take enough pride in their work
When they flushed the lines could they have left air in the system and the glycol has nowhere to get rid of the cold so it freezes?
Wouldn't matter, as long as the glycol pumps are running the glycol will just run back to the tank still cold and the compressor should cycle off.