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WHY SELL THE GLYCOL UNIT IN THE U.S. IF WE CAN'T GET THE PARTS ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2023
- This was a little silly but in the end all was well, but the customers are doing this to themselves by purchasing the cheapest equipment.
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First frame told me "not made in USA".
US made never would have double insulated cables or touchproof spring terminal blocks inside equipment but rather a huge ratsnest of wires and wirenuts.
Yeah other countries do have a higher standard with wiring lol
@@dan4age Yeah it's great until the mandatory grid shutdowns like Venezuela.
@@KB-ke3fi Ah so equipment built to higher standards equals blackouts? Texas must have pretty high standards then.
That double insulated cable (the grey one) is Oelflex from Lapp-kabel in Germany
This is kind of an industry standard here for harsh environments. It is made to withstand Oil (hence the name Oil-flex) and other nasty things which normally eat insulation for breakfast
Pretty nice stuff, you can leave this in the sun for 10 years, run it thru gasoline or battery acid or whatever and it is still flexible and does not break
Also comes in ultra fine stranded wire for moving things in automation like robots which bend the cable a million times a day and also in a cutting resistant variant for resistance against rubbing out. You need a brand new box cutter blade and like 5 hard strokes to cut thru the insulation of that stuff
@@KB-ke3fi I'm pretty sure that isn't what he meant... he meant like, EU and Aussie wiring. As an Australian, I do agree that some American wiring looks a bit scary. These videos often show a circuit-board with 240V input, yet there's no shielding over the high-voltage side. The contacters never have covers over the screws. Those 2 have some similarities I've seen with things in Australia, we aren't perfect yet, but in Australia these things would at least be in a semi-separate area from the low-voltage/ safe-to-touch things.
Personally, I reckon everything high-voltage should have an easy-to-remove shield over it, to prevent accidental contact and yet not interfere with connecting multimeter leads to the wiring. Screw-in connectors for wire seem to be mostly phased-out in europe, from what I can tell, and replaced with these clamps which are safe and easy-to-use and yet well-built.
The US does have some great things about its electrical system, but sadly many years of the rugged-individualism sorta attitude have passed safety from manufacturers to customers and the standards have suffered. I think that NEMA are working on improving things, though. I don't think NEMA have very much jurisdiction over the safety of electricians working on appliances, that'd probably be whatever the appliance standards authority is, so I hope they're doing their best too.
I've dealt with a lot of imported manufacturing equipment from Germany / Italy / Japan / UK . These makers are not going to redesign their equipment to meet USA threads and sensibilities just as we are not going to do the same for them. The larger manufacturers have a USA presence and good parts support however smaller ones just don't have the resources to stock parts in the USA. Remember, it takes $$$ to have parts sitting on a shelf not to mention the cost of a warehouse / people to pick the parts.
Let alone if you can even get the parts and fix it yourself when you have many US companies who lock you out of your own hardware and insist on being the ones to fix it while charging huge amounts for the labor and parts. John Deere & Apple to name a couple.
Part of this is also the current conflict between Ukraine v. Russia. Until that is settled, one way or any of the half-dozen at least others... it is going to be hard to get parts from companies who used to be based in Ukraine and now have gone out of business or pulled out and are currently building infrastructure elsewhere.
@@PraetorianAU As designs evolve and become more integrated, parts are going to be custom for that specific device. If you spend big $$$ to design parts, would you be OK with someone reverse engineering the parts and selling it in the aftermarket?
Same the other way round, part of my job is to make US sourced euipment conform to local safety standards and maintain it. Its a pain, things are just sold as-is, at best bodged up to suit the mains voltage but thats about it. Also nonmetric screws are a massive pain.
Usa sensibilities? Since when is the us sensible?
I fixed my own household unit thanks to you. It was off on high head pressure. I cleaned the condenser coils and reset the unit. I wouldn’t have had the knowledge to diagnose the issue without watching dozens of your videos. I’m not even a tradesman, I’ve learned what to do just by watching. Thank you.
Ditto
The best advice I have ever recieved " never become emotionally involved with inanimate objects "
French viewer here!
Funny to see a "Made in France" compressor, around here everything seems to be made in China these days. I'm not surprised that the factory here would build export models, in 120V 60Hz. The opposite obviously also exists, for example, when my mother left North America in the 90s, she bought an export model Maytag washer, made from factory for 230V 50Hz, with euro plug.
Still makes you wonder how silly can globalization get, compressor made in France, shipped to Ukraine to be assembled in a unit shipped to the US... How efficient is that in the end?
From what I can find, the logo stamped on the top of the compressor is the logo of the brand "L'Unité Hermétique", which became Tecumseh Europe in 1997... Their factory has been in operation since 1956, it's unfortunately planned to close down this fall... It looks like we're on the wrong end of globalization this time.
As for your repair I think given the situation (non availability of OEM parts) you did right, in the same situation I know I wouldn't even have looked for OEM components.
Great job as always and thanks for the video!
"Il faut réindustrialiser la France" qu'il disait l'autre "lol"
That unit looks like a bastardized flash chiller as used in the UK, would not be used for a beer line chiller. They would only be used under counter to make products extra cold. M6 (10mm spanner or socket) is so common and we have been using wagos for years!
Im a retired HVACR and I love your chanel . It keeps me sharp in my absence from the trade
Actually you can open those fan motors. Remove motor, remove fan blade from motor. Open 4 screws and both side of the axle there is sliding bearings. Bearings has foam to store oil to lubricate axle and sleeve bearings. Re-oil those foams with thick oil, reassemble motor, install blade, reinstall whole assembly and you are good to go. I just reoiled bearings for my friends very old beer automat. One motor was original from probably early 80's and newer was from 1994. Motor insides was like brand new. Only problem was those dry oiler foams. There was none markings at axle etc. Re-oiling, washing blades and cleaning coils did the trick. Re-oiling is much quicker than go to supply house and cheaper. Those kind of motors is maded to be serviced by Re-oiling them.
They are cheap poor quality motors and re- oiling is a get you out of trouble thing. We would always return to swap out if a spare wasn't on the van.
Most fridge techs would carry several as they are a common failure
The call usually goes something like
"Well the fridge started to make a loud squealing noise but then went quiet so we thought it was alright. But now the cabinet won't keep temperature and overheating, what do you think is wrong?"
don't use thick oil, the proper oil is straight 20W Electric motor oil. I have a little bottle I've used for years, 3n1 brand. I've reoiled the bath fan motors in my house, a few times, they're over 23 years old and still going.
@@richardbartlett6932 Yes it's a get you out of trouble if it ran dry for too long. Excessive bearing shaft or end play isn't fixable by adding oil. The key is to take apart and reoil the felts before it dries out. Motors only have just barely enough oil in those sleeve bearings to get you past the warranty. My grandpa told me about that, and he worked at GE in the 1950's to the mid 1970's, small motors division, plant manager of Winter St Engineering, Ft Wayne Indiana. He transferred there from Lynn, MA when they moved part of the Tri-Clad line to Fort Wayne.
What type of oil?
@@kennleeds4342 I use 3n1 brand Electric Motor Oil. It's straight SAE 20W.
Plenty of companies are making access to parts difficult to impossible. They just want you to replace the equipment when it breaks down.
Here is your chance to do a better job, should be an easy $$ maker no?
It's even simpler than that. Where THEY source everything has things reasonably custom fabricated, and once they've produced the parts, they don't have spares beyond what they expect for QA and warranty replacements.
@@tbelding And even sometime they don't even have for warranty !
I agree when possible go OEM, but in a pinch you can put a Supco RCO 410 1/4-1/3 hp. Universal start cap relay when the components aren't available. I've had one on my home fridge for 4 years and it's still working 100%. Watch, now that I mentioned it, it'll probably fail, LOL!
Did you mean RCO210 ? Remember when installing those you go by AMPS not HP . Little tip of the day one time for your mind 😅
Make sure to add run capacitor to it , help lower amp
@@philltafolla the compressor falls within the range of the 410. The 210 is for 1/2 hp. and the biggest difference is that the overload is a higher rating. If there is a problem on startup, there is a chance the 210 overload might not trip and burn the compressor windings. If the compressor is starting with no issues (high inrush amperage, hard starting) , then the RCO410 should have no issues maintaining a continuous run during the cooling cycle bearing in mind that all ratings take into account for a higher inrush current by utilizing a bimetal thermal disc overload.
About your comment about those WAGOs and Europeans not understanding. WAGO is a German company and here in the metrics world (I'm not from Germany btw) we use those handy connectors all the time, thousands and thousands per month where I work. One of the top 5 innovations ever. 😎
Great video though. I've been working with building automation systems for 33 years and I've found your videos extremely informative about what these cooling systems actually do. We usually don't have much to do with these walk in boxes.
Thank you for sharing these with us.
Here in the UK True Refrigeration are a pain in the ass with their imperial sized fixings. Well built mind you pretty bulletproof, spares are expensive in the UK mind. Great content again Chris.
Each time they do this it makes your skills more valuable. Which makes you more money. It's like a puzzle of only one color some people will never try to put it together even though they know what it is supposed to look like because they don't understand the pieces. You know both, so you survive.
Bought a water heater that said AO Smith from a Big Box. Plumber says that name-brands sold at Big Box Stores aren't the same as the ones that come directly from the manufacturer... different parts, etc.
Had a Bahco pneumatic pruner... Swedish Company, tool had a label said "Made in Italy", had a female threaded fitting that was *British Threads* ... ?!
We use british threads for piping in Sweden and also most of the rest of Europe. It's been a standard for hundreds of years which makes it easy to exchange parts between different countries.
And Bahco was a Swedish company but is now part of Snap-on over twenty years.
AO Smith at Lowe's is basically a different company with clearly different branding (Signature at Lowe's, ProLine at supply houses) borne from their 2017 acquisition of American Water Heaters. Before that, they were sold as Whirlpool.
Not everything is that obvious, though. Most brands do have big box exclusive lines, but you can sometimes find "real" stuff there, too. As long as the model numbers/SKUs are the same, then the product will be the same no matter where it's sold.
Rare to see a freaking big Made in France written on a compressor on your channel. 🇫🇷 Viva la resistor!
Great video, Chris. I did some web searching and was able to cross-reference from a Tecumseh compressor catalog. The Tecumseh CAE4448Y compressor featured in the video is part of the old AE series which was updated to the AE2 series, which is more energy efficient, around a decade ago (based on the catalog date). The new AE2 series replacement part number is AE4450Y-AA1A for the North American 115V 60Hz variant and is currently available. Replacement overload and relay kits are available separately. Unfortunately, AE2 series component and electrical parts are not interchangeable with the older AE series parts.
Sorry you hate the metric system so much, it's been standard here in Europe and (most of) the rest of the world for decades now!
P.S. I could email you the information I got to you if there's a chance it might help you in the future..
As metre was define in 1799 you can even tell CENTURIES !
But the real matter of imperial unit is how weird are all the division X foot in a yard Y inch in a feet Z yard in a miles even for tool why they divide an inch in 16 ??? Even temperature is weird, 0 °F is a mix of Ammonium chloride and ice, 96 a "human body temp"
I found fun to see some american discover how clever is metric system, for no other reason that it's a 10 based system from a plumber that try to divide by two 3 feet 6 inch 3/8 to a cooking wonmmen that got bored with pinch cup pint and so on !
@@lapub. which system makes you use your head more? enough said. 🤣 it helps keep the weeds out
Metric hardware is standard pretty much everywhere including automotive. I truly don't understand his rant.
I feel your pain! Just the other day I was working on a front deck mower made in Sweden, everything is metric which is fine. Then you arrive at the engine, a Briggs & Stratton engine made in the U.S.A and every single fastener is SAE/Imperial! What a nightmare, you have to special order parts, screws, nuts, bolts, seals, bearings, etc. from the dealer. So this problem works both ways you see. I was tempted to drill the SAE threads and tap new metric threads, just to be done with it. But I opted to get the proper SAE bolt through Briggs & Stratton instead, at least the replacement had a Torx 45 head.
We all have a bit of cap bandit in us at times.
Yeah supply issues are everywhere... We are waiting for a new heart-lung machine in our hospital and the delivery is already 18 months past due.... That said I am really glad to see wago connectors. Wire nuts are just nuts to me.
Wire nuts are non compliant here in Australia BP connectors are what's normally used
Wire nuts aren't compliant in electrical installations in France either
I always watch from beginning to end, have to listen to the commentary at the end after all :3
If it's a rebranded compressor with a "Made in France" sticker, it's not far off to think it was more accurately "Finished in France" to meet regulations. Air compressors use this scummy labeling where the compressor unit is made in China, but the final attached tank is done in the USA because the tank is regulated.
Great tec. videos. Watching your videos reminds me of the jobs I ran into when I was doing HVAC/R.
You know you jinx yourself by bringing it to light after it being in the archives for a long time. My luck would have been i upload the video and a week later the chiller is down again. Lol.
I use always wago's if need to change some fan motors or other components where i need to cut wires, only putting them always inside joint box to protect it.
WAGO's are now very popular here in the UK. I use them a lot,
Chris when I did a Goole search for refrigerant compressors made in France., the first thing that comes up is Tecumseh!! I guess that's where all their compressors are made?
La unite hermatique made them under licence for decades.
@@richardbartlett6932 Thank you!
These units are so simple you can build it from scratch with a trip to any decent supplier
You're so rad
Or a window shaker and a cooler lol
If it's in stock.
I’ve seen homebrewers build DIY glycol chillers using window air conditioners with the evaporator coil submerged in the tank
@@atomstarfireproductions8695 Shit actually works, i built one for my neighbor to cool down a big ass saltwater aquarium with some titanium heat exchangers. As long as you keep the glycol circulating and around 35-40 it will run for years
Used to work in a bakery. None of the equipment we used was US made. Was all German made. There motors , when you get to the big stuff, are a fraction of the size. Everything was 50 hz. Had boxes on some to switch to 60hz. Our silo system took these funky fuses had to be ordered from Germany. Finally the electrician switched it to reg fuses then put breakers in. We added a second larger silo made in Italy but the electrical Components was German. The blower motor we was told if we wanted American made would be 5x the size. We wanted to get a spare. Wasnt happening. German mixer was awesome. Got a Moline as a second mixer was a piece of junk.
The original capacitor was branded FACON, they built them at 15 mins from my house here in northern Italy
I am not an HVAC Technician but the parts issues are very similar to other devices made overseas they can sell whole units but to get parts is next to impossible
To answer your title question, they don't want to sell you parts, they want you to just buy a new one. Plus they need parts to manufacture new units, if they're like most other factories, they are fighting an order backlog weeks or months long, and they need every part available to try to get new units out the door. Same with Hoshizaki ice machines, parts especially like evaporator assemblies are in short supply because people are crying for new ice machines.
As an electrical engineer, I can tell you that power draw between 50Hz vs 60Hz is not exactly same, all else being equal (same refrigerant charge, same voltage, same capacitor etc.); at 60Hz less current is drawn and the Compressor can run inside its performance envelope, with no problem.
However, to get the UL or CSA mark on these, the manufacturer has to PAY for dual-frequency testing (during which the current draw RLA is measured and noted), and if they don't care, then they are not allowed to mark it--i.e., a Compressor not TESTED at 60Hz cannot be marked as such. Tecumseh, Copeland, etc. are aware of this cost and pick which models go to which parts of the world to minimize the cost of testing.
Gotta embrace metric Chris. Its how the world works. :D
The industry I work in (unrelated to HVACR, I just find it interesting) uses nearly all metric, even here in the US. It's great once you get used to it.
Ya did good friend!.....I thought I was the only one who rants on those inconveniences.
I ran into an identical issue for a Taylor shake machine. Obsolete start components for the hopper compressor. Changed the compressor.
Nice wagos! also thnx now i know where the motors are used some what im from Estonia amd a friend Of mine gave me 2 same looking motors how i fixed them was just greased the bearings up and no noise enymore
That fan motor it s Euro style maybe from Ebm-Papst
@@bobroberts2371 was it 220v motor
I have no problem telling customer can't get parts, they bought cheap, hard to servicable stuff. They get what they paid for.
The problem is, that its hard to find "expensive" and serviceable (whatever) nowadays.
We have the exact same unit for our lines. It's pretty new as the old UBC unit broke a month after the warranty expired - and no parts due to Ukraine. Ended up getting another UBC. What can you do? Gotta have cold beer...
Non warranty call, slap on a hard start kit. If it's warranty, first get approval and part numbers from the manufacturer, slap on a hard start kit (using male disconnects so you don't cut the factory cord), order the OEM starting components and either way have the customer up and running ASAP. All our service vans carried the 3 popular sizes and popular condenser (9W CW and CCW) fan motors. This fan was not a common one though...
Love seeing these power packs!
Hey, the metric system is not dumb considering most of the world uses it. Also, Wago is a European company. We have been using wago connectors in europe for years. They are far superior to the wire nut.
And can someone from the US please explain why you don't insulate your ground wires. That's a short or fire waiting to happen.
Because insulation costs money, and we don't do things right here if we can do them cheap instead, apparently.
You did a great job in making it happen! I'm like you...OEM is the best option.
Yeah! A machine beginns to deteriorate when Youre putting in 3rd party parts!
UBC Typhoon (ru or ukrainian: тайфун/tayfun) H35G-3/8GP.
Because of war, they can be have short in supply. (not extending this topic to avoid holywar of war)
Edit: Parts, labelled "made in Europe" usually bad, and manufacturer is so shy, so he can not to stamp country of origin.
What my company does when one of the starting components fail is we install the 3in1 relay.
Scotsman ice systems use the same compressor on some models and list the part numbers. Did that fan fail and overheat the capacitor?
In dusty spaces I have found a good 3M 8271 P95 works great. Also it's a P rated so minimal oil contamination concern for HVAC/automotive.
nice timing
Great job Chris.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
I remember that video with the 5ton fan coil
Chris can you make a video about start capacitors, as to how they work and how the control board turns them on?
Thanks for sharing Chris
Oh, you had a run in with a „L‘Unite“ compressor. They are producing compressors under Thecumse license and even slap the logo on it. I can not imagine the production costs being waaaaay cheaper if the compressor was „made in france“ though…
I haven't made it all the way through the video, but need to give the original company that came out a small bit of credit. They told the client "need a new compressor", which very well may have just been an abbreviated version of what you find with cross referencing the components. You know as well as I do a lot of these clients have zero critical thinking skills, so they may have been informed of the sourcing issues and just interpreted "need new compressor".
Good job Chris.
I’m in the experience, the beverage guys always say it’s a bad compressor 😂😂
Order the parts OEM out of Europe:)
Just asked my friend here in Ukraine, it's their product and their company still manufacturing&shipping coolers from here :) Before war they were based in Kharkiv city, now maybe moved, maybe not.
Didnt see you check resistance of windings before adding the capacitor.
At the end of the day the customer is only concerned if its fixed, not how it looks.
#respect from lake havasu , AZ. .....Bill
They make passive respirators that will filter all of that dust!
N95 is the non oil resistant version. P95 is the oil resistant version.
Save yourself much time and headache. About as simple a job one can recieve. Supco 3N1.. Don't waste time on OEM that is not always required and is no better or worse these days than a 3N1
I have seen some left on compressors for 5+ yrs and still doing it's job!
I come from Europe Netherlands now I have to laugh about waco clamp strip these come. From Germany,We have been using these from Europe for more than 8 years, unfortunately what we see from the USA is antique, you are lagging behind Sorry but it really is 😂😂 We certainly understand how or what I see with your techniques from 30 years ago
There's 10+ websites that sell that compressor. Exact. 😮
but they don't have it at the local supply house and I needed the parts than, the point was the tecumseh wholesaler didn't know what the compressor was or where to get the parts.. I realize I could order it from parts town but even than its a retrofit compressor...
Taiwan also uses 110V 60Hz AC as North America, complete with the same plugs. (Note that China doesn't - China uses 220V 50Hz, and that weird bladed plug).
China use A/NZ standard plugs, Their 220v kit works in Australian sockets without an adaptor.
Europe has it's normalized norms so product of France has same screws as same model in Poland . I'm 100% for norms if you produce staff for US follow us standards.
Aw poor baby show us on the doll where the millimeter hurt you
that condensing coil fan isn't pulling air through the coil at all.
it needs to be incased.
japan maybe?
Japan has any combination of 220v 110v 50Hz 60Hz
Same sh…t in Ukraine, barely find information about Embraco compressor of my fridge(made in Italy) in Australian or NZ catalogue )
Embraco made danfoss compressors with different electrics
🇺🇲💪❄️👍 glycol units ground level fun glycol units on top of cooler not so much. Nice work
It's time for imperial to retire.. I haven't used imperial tools since the 80's... everything is metric now and it's so much easier not to have to buy 2 sets of sockets and spanners ... I find it odd that in America its referred to as standard.... although most of your manufacturers are using metric now... time for change..
Does your company charge your full service rate for parts runs? A ruduced rate? mileage? Just wondering what your area does. I will not charge time or mileage if its was our fault we didn't have a standard part on our van for our line of equipment. But for odd ball equipment we charge our full service rate and mileage when running for parts. It can add up for the customer when they by inport cheap stuff and we have to run all over to find parts.
yep we charge the same hourly rate for travel time and actual working time
If the unit is made in Ukraine, I would advocate putting it in cold storage (pun intended) and get replacement units till OEM parts come back online.
Good job bro !
Regards from Mexico city!
As someone who isn't in the HVAC industry I have to ask why glycol chillers are always in the ceiling. Is it for gravity purposes?
I wonder about that too, I wouldn't expect gravity to be related since the glycol is being pumped around the system anyway. Perhaps installers are just assholes?
They don't want to waste floor space for the equipment.
Probably just to save space when they can install it in the attic but also make it inconvenient to work on.
So the "beverage technician" was right.
Hahah im a beverage technician
nice work, in and out
How do you arrange/build the integrated beer/glycol tube bundles, if you are installing rather than the beverage company?
In france it’s 230v and 50hz
They sell them in the US even though you can't get parts because people buy them even though you can't get parts.
Hi chris i got questions? I have always wondered if the 3 psi Nitrogen flows through the compressor when brazing it in? Can u answer that question please?
Parts is parts , man up , OEM don't mean shit .
You need to make your own troubleshooting app a ND get rich and tag your videos on the app
start cap bandit!!!! 🤣🤪 haha, you're excused for the hackery, since the real hackery far upstream engineering, design and build failure. lol
at least you bothered to cover the terminals and secure it in place, most would have left it exposed and dangling by the wires.
Ha ha you are right about leaving it exposed
Lmao ive had this exact same problem with a tecumseh compressor last week
Ive never worked on one of these but i would imagine its a water/pg mix rather than just glycol. Like a 35 to 40% mix? Ive never seen anything run strait glycol. And a small pump like that doesnt look like it could pump it on long runs like youre talking. Can you confirm?
🇺🇲💪❄️👍 water/glycol mix usually 2-1 ratio. I use a glycometer n check brix% tells u freeze point. I keep it around 25-30 brix %
Do you run like 1 call a day. 3 hours to get parts?
Everyday is different this customer is an hour and a half from my shop and the supply house is an hour away from the customers location so two trips and the travel out to the customer took a good part of the day
for me if the capacitor dies, it nearly always dies again after some time
Allergy? does desloratadine works for you?
It makes no sense to have a glycol unit if you cannot buy the parts if the unit fails
That cap with "made in europe" on it.......where in europe? Germany or uzbekistan?
Uzbekistan is in Asia.
UBC Group - Ukrainian Beer Company. Maybe a 3rd party manufactures these units and UBC sells them?
Yes, their product sheet for G30-R290 chillers says that the compressor varies "EMBRACO" NEU 6181 U or "SECOP"NLE8.0CN 115-127 V/60Hz or CUBIGEL NLY75RRa
(115-127V 60Hz)
Start cap is just that & a run cap is normally a better capacitor .
You're not working for NASA !
Go with the numbers & make a replacement fit …..
Yup...
These days need to be an engineer, not just a tech.
Why buy the parts when you can buy a new unit?
Anyway, you should check part availability before buying a unit
4 blocks of ice in front of a 110 fan in front of an open window all day long.
Because brandon.