Goes to an audio convention, immediately returns to filming outstanding and informative as well as educational content the following Monday. Man I love this channel
My Denon X4500H memorizes which upmixer I used last on which source type. So for Stereo I deploy Dolby Sourround and for MultiCh I use Auro 3D. The reason for this is the Auro Level 1-15 remains on its setting independent of 2Ch or MultiCh input. I like to watch my movies at Auro3D large level 12, but that overdoes it on Stereo Music. I can’t be bothered to tweak that in the Denon everytime. I appreciate factual discussion with backup measurements. Very scientific ! Good.
I loved my DTS Neo 6 music setting back in the day! Now I mostly use stereo or Dolby Upmixer with center spread on my Marantz AVR, depending on my mood, and I'm pretty darn happy with those for now. Definitely can't complain. 🍻
Thank you Gene, another extremely informative video. I have been using Auro 3D through my Marantz SR8015 set at 7 large on my 7.2.4 system for music. Thank you for providing the analysis and explaining why it's so bass heavy and why I have had to chase the decibels down on the subs. I agree with your assertion using DTS:X, tried that first and it was a huge disappointment. I used to use DTS for up-mixing on my old Denon receivers and whole heartedly agree with you that they used to do an excellent job. Right now Auro 3D has a very good immersive presentation here in our room, (after changing the subs) I will now take your advice and try lowering the strength level. I haven't dedicated a whole lot of play time with Dolby up-mixing, but your recommendation has me itching to give that a try with center spread on. Looking forward to more on multichannel music listening.
Hi Gene, Good video, thanks! I upsample all 2ch sources and have been doing so for many years now. I'm currently running a Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro in a 5.2.4 configuration.I do agree the older codec's were better in some ways. The Dolby Pro Logic II and DTS Neo that was in my last 7701 was great in many ways, I was at first disappointed in the codecs in the newer unit when I first got it. After I learned a bit more about the new settings things improved. I have actually found all 3 to be good but which is best is very source dependent. With each stereo source I'll usually quickly switch between them to find which I prefer with that recording. Glad Dolby didn't have their way with removing Center Spread, a very valuable feature in our multich front-ends. I was running Auro in the Med 10 default but have now changed it due to your recommendation. I'll live with it for a while and see what I think. I'm looking forward to your coming article on it tomorrow. I really appreciate all you bring to the multich community. Keep on keepin on. Sal1950
Another great video, Gene! And very relevant, as well. After all, who among us multichannel fans hasn't experimented with the various stereo upmixing options available in our systems? In addition DTS Virtual:X and DSU (no Auro 3D processing), my current Anthem pre-pro is also equipped with Anthem's proprietary AnthemLogic upmixer, which is selectable in either Music or Video configuration. I've experimented extensively with all three, and, in my room with my equipment, the AnthemLogic upmixers are far and away the best at turning a stereo recording into a convincing immersive experience. For the first couple years, I skipped trying the AnthemLogic Video option with music, and stuck with the Music option, which DOESN'T use the center channel speaker at all, but does include all of the the other bed speakers, as well as the heights. The presentation sounded much more natural and convincing with AnthemLogic Audio than it did with either DSU or DTS Virtual:X. My only beef with the presentation was that center-stage instruments and vocals were just a bit recessed, and could be overwhelmed by other instruments when the rest of the band started jamming hard. A few months ago, I decided to try the AnthemLogic Video option with music, and WOW! Center-stage content instantly became rock solid and prominent. A little too prominent, in fact, but this was easily addressed by reducing the center channel's volume calibration by 3 dB. Perfect! Gene, I'll be curious to hear your opinion of AnthemLogic if you ever try this upmixer.
I agree with your 2-channel assessment. However, to my ear DTS:Neural is a better upmixer for 5.1 or 7.1 movie content. So whenever I'm watching a movie on say Amazon Prime Video or Netflix that isn't in Atmos... I use DTS:X Neural. For all cable TV or 2 channel sources I use Dolby Surround. Auro upmixing isn't all that bad usually, but it also doesn't fit my speaker layout very well.
Thanks for excellent analysis of the effects of these upmixers on the fidelity of the front left and right channels. I am also interested in what is going on with the surround and height channels. You touched on it with the mention of better layering with Dolby and DTS, but a more in-depth analysis would be most appreciated by this fan of your channel.
We really enjoyed your analysis Gene. We don’t have the same test equipment as your family but your analysis is very similar to what we are experiencing while listening. We upmix two channel mostly using Auromatic 3D into our 7.2.6 McIntosh system with Large 8 selected. Occasionally we will use Dolby with center spread on (definitely). Dolby preserves the imaging better with certain CD’s we play over Auromatic (Genesis And Then There Were Three is an example). Source material can certainly make a difference in our listening tests. Your analysis also explains the dialogue I posted about on your other threads where Dolby bass seems lacking. We prefer more of the hard hitting bass whereas it seems you don’t and thus the difference in listening style and preference. Thank you for posting those measurements of this bass “boost” while Auromatic is selected . Occasionally If too much boost is heard then we do lower the decibels slightly of our two subs. It can be done quickly in the menu while playing. The immersive experience using ether the Dolby or Auromatic 3D codecs is addicting for us. It’s rare we use DTS:X as we hear the same results as you…it dumps too much into the center and the image collapses…kinda like the dream collapsing in Inception. 😂. Looking forward to your multi channel results as that’s where Auromatic upmixing really shines for us. Just finished listening to Elton John’s Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on Blu-ray Pure Audio. Funeral for a Friend is phenomenal in either Auro or Dolby codecs. Welcome back from the Florida axpona show and keep the vids coming’ my friend.
I can't believe I sat on this for so long.. Playing back Chocolate chip trip on "9ch stereo" was AUDIO NIRVANA for me. It seems like the surrounds (5.1.4 here) became my new left and right limit expanding the stage to a huge enveloping sound stage. I haven't played with other modes yet. But it's always exciting to discover new audio things. (REW was the biggest)
Excellent information, one of the most useful videos on TH-cam. It seems like these codecs are all geared towards movies, not music. However I like many others use my system mostly for music.
Gene, FYI the Yamaha RX-A3080 lost Center Spread but got it back again wirh a more recent Firmware update. It also has the older DTS version of NEO 6 Music and DTS Cinema which do sound good, but does not use all 11 speakers. Dolby IIx, (I really miss) was replaced by the new Dolby Atmos up mixer (and sounds great with Telarc Surround Sound CDs). I avree with you regarding the new DTSX Neural up mixer for 2 channel music (it STINKS)! Joe C.
Gene, thanks for continuing to produce these very informative videos. I have a Denon AVR-X3600H receiver and my speaker configuration is a 4.2.4 layout without a center channel. I have never had a system using a center channel that I liked so that's why I set my system up this way. I have Golden Ear towers for front and rear and 4 of their in-ceiling speakers. I have an SVS PB2000 Pro sub plus using the built-in subs in my front speakers as my second sub. I switch between Dolby Surround and DTS:X with both 2 channel and 5.1 sources. The Dolby Surround sounds more natural with just a bit of spatial surround while the DTS:X appears to jumble the sound up quite a bit. It all depends on my mood which one I select to use. I'm curious what your measurements would show if you turned your center channel off and had your system configured in a similar way to mine? You might like it better that way, lol... Keep up the great work you guys are doing, always enjoy your TH-cam videos and website articles.
I’ve always enjoyed the subtle effects that my Anthem MRX 720 AVR uses in their proprietary Anthem Logic Music and Cinema modes. I’m going to bookmark this video for the future when I upgrade to separates in the future. The Monolith HTP-1 is the leading candidate, hopefully it will be able to do what you are illustrating. The reason I’m leaning to the Monoprice over the Anthem AV70 is the Dirac Live feature with the ability to get the bass control upgrade.
Auro 3D was my favorite in upmixing Stereo signals for the longest time, until I tested Dolby Surround with my Denon X4800H and realized that Dolby significantly improved their upmixer. So much so that Gene is absolutely correct. It is currently by far the best upmixer.
Excellent information. I prefer surround, downloaded (or SACD), classical music. However, I do have a lot of 2 channel music plus Qobuz seems to be all 2 channel. I primarily use Auro 3D. I have the Marantz AV8805 pre/pro. I did not know that choosing the MUSIC implementation was a better choice. Also, thanks for the LARGE/6 tip. I need to check on using the Dolby upmixer. I normally do not use it but it's worth trying it out. Thanks for the tips there as well. I have a 9.2.4 setup.
Love experiencing music closer to a live concert feeling with full immersion. Really impressed with Dolby surround but 100% with Center spread, never realised how the stereo speakers were axed completely above the bass. Auro is nice, especially when want to “beef up” the sound more more low / medium level listening, kinda works like “loudness setting” great for hanging with friends and listening.
I like the AnthemLogic music upmixer also. I can’t quite decide whether I like that or the Dolby Surround upmixer better. You were definitely right that the center spread really improves the sound.
I use the Auro upmixer for video games primarily, and I listen to music in stereo, I haven't really tried up mixing it. My only thing about Atmos is I wish Dolby would start supporting the center height speaker like DTS does, mainly because I have one and want all my speakers playing, I like Atmos the most out of the upmixers and it's the most natively supported format. Microsoft has picked up Atmos for many of the newer Xbox games now, Halo infinite for instance sounds incredible in native Atmos. Gene I really wish you where more of a gamer and could evaluate this kind of stuff, if the high home theater world wants to survive into the future they need to start marketing to millennials and gaming more, we aren't kids any longer the oldest millennials are nearly 40 years old now.
I like the the all channel stereo mode on my Denon X4500H. I like how some of the sounds are coming through the ceiling speakers. It sounds pretty cool 🔊🔊🔊🔊
Gene, knowing your enjoyment of Prog Rock - I came across a band I have never heard of that you might enjoy. Their recordings are done really well and available on Tidal. Enjoy! I would start with Second Life Syndrome by Riverside
in my Pioneer Elite LX 304 I don't like none of the 2 channel upmixer dolby surround for listen to my music , it sound weak and with no presence at all , but on extended stereo setting, whoa!!! my music con alive , the sound is crisp , dynamic , bass is present , really is my favorite ,also I tried extended stereo in DENON and sound just fantastic
I loved DTS Neo 6 with music on my old Onkyo NR616. Closest I can get on my Denon X6400H is Dolby Surround with centre spread on but the DTS Neo sticks in my mind as being better. Also thanks to you Gene for showing in technical detail what we hear...I love to see the science behind real life.
Gene, again my results are totally at odds with yours. With center spread off I definitely have the widest and most realistic sound stage when upmixing 2 channel program with center spread off. The only up mixer that I find acceptable is Dolby Digital Surround. This appears to be the only one that can make 2 channel music close to discrete multichannel sound without upsetting the tonal balance. I played around with sweeps today and found the upmixer to be very discrete. The really convincing demonstration which was an absolute decider for me as playing an old Decca 7.5ips 4 track tape: "A Journey in Stereo Sound." This was superbly recorded in 1959. It was issued on LP. But I played the tape version, so there was no possibility of interchannel crosstalk. It was played on my Revox A77 Mk IV, which is in perfect as new condition. This recoding has a lot of tracks, including steam trains, motor racing, symphonic excerpts, dance bands, and all sorts of good test material. Now with the upmixer the host is dead center with extremely natural speech, with center spread off. With center spread on, the voice is not as well localized and the voice colored and a bit "chesty." The is a band with trumpets left, percussion center and saxophones to the right. With center spread off everything is nicely balanced, and everything as it should be. Engage center spread, and the percussion sections spreads all over the sound stage. What ever program I use to test, the sound stage is far wider and deeper with center spread off. When center spread is engaged the sound stage becomes narrower and most unnatural. With my live live recordings done with a matrix technique or pure Blumlein, the degradation caused by center spread is extremely dramatic. I have no idea why our results vary so much. Possible it is because of my center channel. I think I'm more proud of that speaker than any other. It is an incredibly natural and accurate speaker, producing really realistic natural speech. I'm yet to find another center than can get close to matching it. The other possibility is that these upmixers are implemented differently on different units. Mine is the Marantz AV7705. With that unit in my room, I continue to be absolutely stunned how good it is. How it manages to produce such discrete channels from two, I have no idea.
That is very strange. I showed how the DSU with center spread extracts everything common between the left/right channels above a few hundred hertz and dumps into the center channel. I suppose that can be ok if you're not at the MLP centered between the left/right speakers but not something I personally like in any systems I've set up. I do agree with you that the DSU is the best upmixer for 2CH music in terms of making the extraction sound discrete in the surround channels.
@@Audioholics I can not replicate the left and right signals getting dumped into the center channel unless they are identical and are actually center channel information, which they would be as that would be center information. Image localization remains excellent on my rig. If I activate center spread, then center information also appears in the left and right speakers, which is not desirable. I am astonished how the Dolby upmixer does recreate discrete and defined channels. If I put a signal on the left or the right channel, then the output from my center is barely perceptible, and totally insignificant. If I put equal inputs on the left and right, that almost all the output is from the center. I don't know why our rigs seem to handle this so differently. The effect is not confined to the MLP. I wonder if this upmixer is implemented differently on different devices, or may be your center is too loud. I do not have any boost to the center. As far as I can tell all channels are carefully and correctly balanced. The fact remains that my system operates the polar opposite of what you describe when activating center spread. The deleterious effect of center spread in my rig, is not subtle in any way, and seriously adverse.
@@Tuscanskipper My theory is 2CH should not be messed with. Center Spread OFF extracts common info from L/R channels and dumps it to the center. I don't like this for music especially bc my phantom center is so good at the MLP from my main speakers. I do like this for 2CH movie material especially when NOT sitting at the MLP. Yes my center is cranked up about 2dB louder than the rest as this is desirable in most cases as movie mixes tend to NOT mix well to the center for reasons beyond the scope of this chat. Most people prefer center spread on for 2CH upmixing in my experience so you're a lone wolf which is fine and great that we have the option to suite our preferences.
@@Audioholics What I am telling you is that on my system the right and left is NOT getting dumped into the center channel to any significant degree. Center spread on the other hand dumps a lot of center info into the left and right speakers, and destroys localization and the sound stage. I actually find that the Dolby up mixer does an excellent job of recreating the ambience of the hall. It really does manage to impose the acoustics of the venue on your room. I should state that my system is not typical, as all 11 speakers are of a very high standard indeed, and the room has optimal dimensions. The front left and right are true integrated full range speakers. So this system is not a typical set up by a long shot, and is carefully calibrated and set up, without Audyssey.
Thanks for providing these recommendations backed up by the effort of measurements. Other channels would just say “do this because I like how it sounds to me on my system in my room” - totally useless except to contribute to the tribalism! Unfortunately, the anthem products don’t have the center spread option as far as I can tell. I just stick to running stereo.
Gene, I was just about to purchase the RX A6A but since there is no center spread, should I avoid that product entirely? I’m very disappointed although they do have Auro. I love Yamahas Web UI and interface so this is disheartening
I never upmix for all of the reasons in this video. I want to hear the sound in its native format, and upmixing detracts from that experience. Just because you hear sound coming from the height channels doesn't make the experience better. Another thing is Auro 3D messing with my bass levels is unacceptable to me because I've fully calibrated my system. I don't shouldn't have to recalibrate just for Aura 3D getting it wrong. I use native sound formats for stereo, 5.1, 7.1, DTSX and Dolby Atmos. I never upmix ever because in my mind, it takes away from the way the sound was meant to be heard.
It’s the opposite for us. Forever spoiled by immersive listening using Auromatic as it takes our listening experience to a hnl (sorry for the SNL reference).
You know, I really do understand and agree with why you want the sound that was meant to be heard. But if you even a little looked at the studios and how they are remixing for home releases you would pull your hair out and never use the phrase "meant to be heard" ever again. Instead you would come to realize that unless you use "Kaleidescape" solutions that pull straight from the cinema release mixes to your home, you are detracting from your experience significantly. (keep in mind there are exceptions)
What about "multi-channel stereo" or "all channels stereo?" Not technically an upmixer, I guess, but it's a way to get your 2-channel sources into more than 2 speakers.
Gene, Denon/Marantz very recently released an update to the Dolby Surround Upmixer that addressed the "Center Channel sound bleed into the surrounds" issue on Dec. 15th, 2021. Was your evaluation done on the previous version of DSU or the updated version of DSU?
Curious. If i have a 5.1.2 small/medium living room. For movies, auro3d is best to have greater effect(10-15) or less? And set to small, medium, large, or Movie? Using denon x3800h. Thanks!
Hi Gene, question... So many people seem to slate Auro yet my dad swears by it (my other guru 😂) what's your feelings on it and why do you think it's generally thought of as unpopular? Thanks. Nath
People want to hate on the leader (Dolby Atmos) and root for the underdog (Auro 3D). Auro 3D is a dead format relegated to upmixing. It is a good upmixer for music and I sometimes prefer it over the DSU depending on source material in that regard. Definitely don't compromise speaker placement or the AV Product choice based on Auro. Focus on property Dolby Atmos set up and calibration.
This aged well. No sarcasm. IMO, native Atmos orchestral and movie soundtracks sound phenomenal. But for everything else, I still prefer the hi-res stereo mix, upmixed with Auro-3D.
I feel like a lot of Spacial mixes just send different instruments and noises "hard panned" to specific speakers. bouncing around sometimes for fun. They lack the depth 3d imaging you can experience with 2 channel (most people never will) I'm not in the studio, so its hard to call out specifically what they are doing. In my mind a complete phantom bubble is what the goal should be. In a perfect world, all the speakers should be transparent. Which many achieve with 2 channel. There seems to be a disconnect somewhere in the chain of multichannel production and "Re-"production. Unless you might know some multi mixes that don't suck?
New Pioneer lx505 has center spread option still. Assuming Onkyos and other Pioneers do as well. Any comment on how broken Dolby upmixing is on anything that isn't music? What I mean is when using Dolby surround, it puts vocals in ALL speakers at nearly ALL times. Even sometimes voices sounding louder in the rear instead of the front/center despite the sound obviously only coming from the front. Neural X doesn't have this issue and works as intended.
When I play my SACDs from the Sony DVP-CX777ES jukebox I use the 2 channel RCA outputs into the Sony STR ZA5000ES receiver. I use the Neural:X feature for what sounds to me like the best sound, over Dolby surround or Multi Stereo. The same with the Sony UBP-X1100ES 4K Blu-ray player. What does it take to get the most out of an SACD? The jukebox has 5.1 RCA outs. Is that the "best" way?
i have dolby center spread in rather budget atmos and dtsx denon avrx 3300w together with audyssey app and using external amps for main 5 channels and love listening 2 channel music upmixed by the receiver, i know its not precise listening but gives me interesting effects spreading sound stage between all speakers and finally more fun listening which music is all about..? with that said my old onkyo tx nr 607 was better for music 2 channel listening.. - great content can u make some content about external dacs /especially in budget friendly amps/recivers/ affecting sound quality from external sources like PC please
Regarding up-mixing 2.0 content, I wonder if you could possibly clear something up, people, including myself are reporting an the issue with dialogue bleeding into the rear (and front L&R) channels using Dolby surround when up-mixing from 2.0, this is something I and others have experienced on the new Advantage Receivers, nobody seems 100% sure if this is what Dolby intended with this up-mixer, I guess part of the confusion is we were used to how Dolby Pro-Logic worked which locked the dialogue to the centre channel. On my RX-A4A for example when watching 2.0 content from TV, using Dolby surround I can hear the dialogue coming from all channels, if you have your surround speaker near your head it dominates over the centre channel for dialogue, is this normal?
@@missing1102 Maybe, who knows for sure, there doesn't seem to be a concrete answer, Yamaha have at least said to me that they are looking into it, I found this quote today "Sound United rep said that the resolved firmware is not identical to the older (pre-dialog bleed issue) version from Dolby so depending on the content, it might still be heard although at much lesser degree. And that this is the best that Dolby can do with this decoder version.", if this is true I guess it can't be fixed, guess we'll just have to wait and see what Yamaha come up with.
I never found any better upmixer than the one in MusicBee. The only gripe I have is that the bass is not very tight and quite boomy. The rest is almost as good as a true 5.1 music album.
Dennon 4400h with Auro 9spker set up plus 2 subs. I much preferred the old Logic 7 codec, which to me, didn't mess with the stereo, I'd use w/o a ctn channel and just enjoy the side/rear surround which sounded very natural to me. I want to like my Auro set up, but the ctn channel ruins it for me, it doesn't sound natural compared to stereo. I have mine set to small, but up to like 14. I feel like big just seems to add reverb or artificially creates a bigger space. I love Auro for movies where it's taking a dolby or DTS signal, but for any upmixing, I'm disappointed and go back to basic stereo. Since I've treated a dedicated home theater for 1st and 2nd reflections as well as bass traps at all corners and center ceilings/walls, stereo sounds almost 3 dimensional on well produced music. I'm not sure why the small setting was dismissed unless I missed it in the video.
You raise very valid points. All the new upmixers dump too much to the center channel. You can adjust this a bit in Auro but still PLIIx Music was the best of all of them, IMO. Anthem Music Mode is really good so try that IF you get an Anthem product in the future.
can someone please tell me why my Roku ultra will not show me my upmix menu as in aromatic or DTX in my movie or music . button on my Marantz 8805A .Should I just get a Apple 4k or Sheild ? .What is the best streaming device for this ? Please help
Hey Gene, I just heard that Sound United was bought by a medical group. ????? What's up with that ? Do a show or send me an response. I use a Beringer 31 band EQ, and an BBE 882I for the best possible sound effect in stereo from an Emotiva 2 ch amp. My old 1993 JVC 5.1 AVR does have various sound fields, but I don't use them. Someday I will uograde that AVR.
You can use the upmixers only if you set the blu ray signal to PCM i stead of „Auto“ or Bitstream. And your StormAudio is best in class and costs appr. 17.500€ :-)
@@Audioholics this video is 5.1 Music Upmixing and focuses on Music. I saw you had few videos about upmixing 2CH when music in mind (focusing on music). I would love to have the same focusing on Movies as many of older titles (many on Netflix are 2CH - sound: "HD" they call it). so I was wondering if you got one already focusing on Movie upmixing (2CH) or if you can create one.
Dolby with center spread on my Outlaw 976 Pre-pro. Speaking of Outlaw, no Pre-pro or Receiver being offered at all to replace the 976 which for me is extremely disappointing. You go on their webpage and there's hardly anything there anymore. Very unfortunate...good company but no new products being offered.
As you pointed out, the new Yamaha does the same thing as if center spread off and dumps most frequencies into center with every upmixer and mode when outside of 2 channel mode, like you said. Doesnt sound very good to listen to music on the new Yamahas unless you feel like listening to 2 channel. Which isnt what everyone wants
Hey i have a Denon 4700H and 2 Emotiva Amp running 5.2.4 full pre-out. The volume is very weak now, so i have to turn more up for the volume then before. How can this be i thought it would be the opposite. ?
@@HarryM2022 I started to use one external amp the emotiva xpa-3 and i was a bit disappointed. Then i added the emotiva A7 for the other channels so it can run pre-amp mode. but after i did that the volume was low i had to turn alot up before i get the same volume then before. I can play very very loud but i wanna have so it get loud quick not when i am at 80 procent volume. So far the pre out upgrade has been a totally waste of money, i can only hear a little diffrence when it is very loud
@Djenk O the emotiva basX A7 gives you 90w per channel into 8ohms. If you had your channels connected to the avr you would have comparable output (roughly ~75-80W per channel). So you wouldn't expect dramatic output effect. The difference would be better separation, and the denon runs cooler since you turned off its internal amplification. I have 5.1.4 system with emotiva xpa5 for the floor channels but I run the atmos from the avr.
@@HarryM2022 Yes i know and the separation is also ok good and all amps are not hot at all so that is also cool. The dynamic and power is also better the Volume goes from 0-100 and 30-40 and up will become loud, now it like 60 to 80 is very very loud and before 60 it is not that loud. Maybe it just change the Volume when you go separate. I have more the enough power it is just weird that the volume has change like that.
Tried upmixing but found it unnatural. With just the front floorstanders, tremendous room filling sound, no muddying things up. Still tinker with upmixing but always go back to 2 channel when i settle in and let the music bathe over me.
CD music through my Denon x3800. To my ear Auro 3D sounded OK.... interesting. In Auro 2D music sounds much more spatial , open like they added some reverb effects equalizer or something to add feeling of open space. However I don't think to my ear Auro 2d or 3d is good for music. For music I much Prefer 2 Channel using Pure Direct mode. To my ear in Pure Direct is best it just sounds right 2 channel nice Sound with centre phantom image yet u be fooled to believe centre channel on.. To me Auro 2d or 3d is awsome for Movies and Gaming MW, Cyber Punk, and or just upmixing a lowsy source.
Agreed... Its an equation at the end of the day, immersiveness over quality...I think poorer quality recordings may benefit greatly to the "up mixing" fad...
I have never been happy with upmixers. They all mess up on some songs and that takes me out of the moment! Apple Music is better with spatial audio but again, a disaster on every 5th song. Keeping it strictly 2-channel for these reasons!
I have a follow-up video on the Auro medium room size here: th-cam.com/video/AuCrp2SA1iQ/w-d-xo.html
"Auro medium room" and "drop"... how apropos. 😁
Goes to an audio convention, immediately returns to filming outstanding and informative as well as educational content the following Monday. Man I love this channel
My Denon X4500H memorizes which upmixer I used last on which source type.
So for Stereo I deploy Dolby Sourround and for MultiCh I use Auro 3D.
The reason for this is the Auro Level 1-15 remains on its setting independent of 2Ch or MultiCh input.
I like to watch my movies at Auro3D large level 12, but that overdoes it on Stereo Music.
I can’t be bothered to tweak that in the Denon everytime.
I appreciate factual discussion with backup measurements. Very scientific ! Good.
I loved my DTS Neo 6 music setting back in the day! Now I mostly use stereo or Dolby Upmixer with center spread on my Marantz AVR, depending on my mood, and I'm pretty darn happy with those for now. Definitely can't complain. 🍻
Thank you Gene, another extremely informative video. I have been using Auro 3D through my Marantz SR8015 set at 7 large on my 7.2.4 system for music. Thank you for providing the analysis and explaining why it's so bass heavy and why I have had to chase the decibels down on the subs. I agree with your assertion using DTS:X, tried that first and it was a huge disappointment. I used to use DTS for up-mixing on my old Denon receivers and whole heartedly agree with you that they used to do an excellent job. Right now Auro 3D has a very good immersive presentation here in our room, (after changing the subs) I will now take your advice and try lowering the strength level. I haven't dedicated a whole lot of play time with Dolby up-mixing, but your recommendation has me itching to give that a try with center spread on. Looking forward to more on multichannel music listening.
Hi Gene,
Good video, thanks! I upsample all 2ch sources and have been doing so for many years now. I'm currently running a Marantz AV7703 Pre/Pro in a 5.2.4 configuration.I do agree the older codec's were better in some ways. The Dolby Pro Logic II and DTS Neo that was in my last 7701 was great in many ways, I was at first disappointed in the codecs in the newer unit when I first got it. After I learned a bit more about the new settings things improved. I have actually found all 3 to be good but which is best is very source dependent. With each stereo source I'll usually quickly switch between them to find which I prefer with that recording. Glad Dolby didn't have their way with removing Center Spread, a very valuable feature in our multich front-ends. I was running Auro in the Med 10 default but have now changed it due to your recommendation. I'll live with it for a while and see what I think. I'm looking forward to your coming article on it tomorrow. I really appreciate all you bring to the multich community. Keep on keepin on.
Sal1950
Another great video, Gene! And very relevant, as well. After all, who among us multichannel fans hasn't experimented with the various stereo upmixing options available in our systems?
In addition DTS Virtual:X and DSU (no Auro 3D processing), my current Anthem pre-pro is also equipped with Anthem's proprietary AnthemLogic upmixer, which is selectable in either Music or Video configuration. I've experimented extensively with all three, and, in my room with my equipment, the AnthemLogic upmixers are far and away the best at turning a stereo recording into a convincing immersive experience.
For the first couple years, I skipped trying the AnthemLogic Video option with music, and stuck with the Music option, which DOESN'T use the center channel speaker at all, but does include all of the the other bed speakers, as well as the heights. The presentation sounded much more natural and convincing with AnthemLogic Audio than it did with either DSU or DTS Virtual:X. My only beef with the presentation was that center-stage instruments and vocals were just a bit recessed, and could be overwhelmed by other instruments when the rest of the band started jamming hard.
A few months ago, I decided to try the AnthemLogic Video option with music, and WOW! Center-stage content instantly became rock solid and prominent. A little too prominent, in fact, but this was easily addressed by reducing the center channel's volume calibration by 3 dB. Perfect!
Gene, I'll be curious to hear your opinion of AnthemLogic if you ever try this upmixer.
I agree with your 2-channel assessment. However, to my ear DTS:Neural is a better upmixer for 5.1 or 7.1 movie content. So whenever I'm watching a movie on say Amazon Prime Video or Netflix that isn't in Atmos... I use DTS:X Neural. For all cable TV or 2 channel sources I use Dolby Surround. Auro upmixing isn't all that bad usually, but it also doesn't fit my speaker layout very well.
Thanks for excellent analysis of the effects of these upmixers on the fidelity of the front left and right channels. I am also interested in what is going on with the surround and height channels. You touched on it with the mention of better layering with Dolby and DTS, but a more in-depth analysis would be most appreciated by this fan of your channel.
We really enjoyed your analysis Gene. We don’t have the same test equipment as your family but your analysis is very similar to what we are experiencing while listening. We upmix two channel mostly using Auromatic 3D into our 7.2.6 McIntosh system with Large 8 selected. Occasionally we will use Dolby with center spread on (definitely). Dolby preserves the imaging better with certain CD’s we play over Auromatic (Genesis And Then There Were Three is an example). Source material can certainly make a difference in our listening tests. Your analysis also explains the dialogue I posted about on your other threads where Dolby bass seems lacking. We prefer more of the hard hitting bass whereas it seems you don’t and thus the difference in listening style and preference. Thank you for posting those measurements of this bass “boost” while Auromatic is selected . Occasionally If too much boost is heard then we do lower the decibels slightly of our two subs. It can be done quickly in the menu while playing. The immersive experience using ether the Dolby or Auromatic 3D codecs is addicting for us. It’s rare we use DTS:X as we hear the same results as you…it dumps too much into the center and the image collapses…kinda like the dream collapsing in Inception. 😂. Looking forward to your multi channel results as that’s where Auromatic upmixing really shines for us. Just finished listening to Elton John’s Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on Blu-ray Pure Audio. Funeral for a Friend is phenomenal in either Auro or Dolby codecs. Welcome back from the Florida axpona show and keep the vids coming’ my friend.
I can't believe I sat on this for so long.. Playing back Chocolate chip trip on "9ch stereo" was AUDIO NIRVANA for me. It seems like the surrounds (5.1.4 here) became my new left and right limit expanding the stage to a huge enveloping sound stage.
I haven't played with other modes yet. But it's always exciting to discover new audio things. (REW was the biggest)
Excellent information, one of the most useful videos on TH-cam. It seems like these codecs are all geared towards movies, not music. However I like many others use my system mostly for music.
Gene, FYI the Yamaha RX-A3080 lost Center Spread but got it back again wirh a more recent Firmware update. It also has the older DTS version of NEO 6 Music and DTS Cinema which do sound good, but does not use all 11 speakers. Dolby IIx, (I really miss) was replaced by the new Dolby Atmos up mixer (and sounds great with Telarc Surround Sound CDs). I avree with you regarding the new DTSX Neural up mixer for 2 channel music (it STINKS)! Joe C.
Gene, thanks for continuing to produce these very informative videos. I have a Denon AVR-X3600H receiver and my speaker configuration is a 4.2.4 layout without a center channel. I have never had a system using a center channel that I liked so that's why I set my system up this way. I have Golden Ear towers for front and rear and 4 of their in-ceiling speakers. I have an SVS PB2000 Pro sub plus using the built-in subs in my front speakers as my second sub. I switch between Dolby Surround and DTS:X with both 2 channel and 5.1 sources. The Dolby Surround sounds more natural with just a bit of spatial surround while the DTS:X appears to jumble the sound up quite a bit. It all depends on my mood which one I select to use. I'm curious what your measurements would show if you turned your center channel off and had your system configured in a similar way to mine? You might like it better that way, lol... Keep up the great work you guys are doing, always enjoy your TH-cam videos and website articles.
I’ve always enjoyed the subtle effects that my Anthem MRX 720 AVR uses in their proprietary Anthem Logic Music and Cinema modes. I’m going to bookmark this video for the future when I upgrade to separates in the future. The Monolith HTP-1 is the leading candidate, hopefully it will be able to do what you are illustrating. The reason I’m leaning to the Monoprice over the Anthem AV70 is the Dirac Live feature with the ability to get the bass control upgrade.
Auro 3D was my favorite in upmixing Stereo signals for the longest time, until I tested Dolby Surround with my Denon X4800H and realized that Dolby significantly improved their upmixer. So much so that Gene is absolutely correct. It is currently by far the best upmixer.
Excellent information. I prefer surround, downloaded (or SACD), classical music. However, I do have a lot of 2 channel music plus Qobuz seems to be all 2 channel. I primarily use Auro 3D. I have the Marantz AV8805 pre/pro. I did not know that choosing the MUSIC implementation was a better choice. Also, thanks for the LARGE/6 tip. I need to check on using the Dolby upmixer. I normally do not use it but it's worth trying it out. Thanks for the tips there as well. I have a 9.2.4 setup.
Used to love Stereo to 5.1 Pro-Logic 2x on my 2006 PC. Listening to music was really fun on that.
Love experiencing music closer to a live concert feeling with full immersion. Really impressed with Dolby surround but 100% with Center spread, never realised how the stereo speakers were axed completely above the bass.
Auro is nice, especially when want to “beef up” the sound more more low / medium level listening, kinda works like “loudness setting” great for hanging with friends and listening.
Excellent observations
Great investigative work Gene! Very curious to hear more about the goof with the Auro medium setting.
I like the AnthemLogic music upmixer also. I can’t quite decide whether I like that or the Dolby Surround upmixer better. You were definitely right that the center spread really improves the sound.
Sadly Anthem doesn't have center spread AFAIK
@@Audioholics Yes, you are right. The AthemLogic music mode does not use the center channel at all.
I use the Auro upmixer for video games primarily, and I listen to music in stereo, I haven't really tried up mixing it. My only thing about Atmos is I wish Dolby would start supporting the center height speaker like DTS does, mainly because I have one and want all my speakers playing, I like Atmos the most out of the upmixers and it's the most natively supported format. Microsoft has picked up Atmos for many of the newer Xbox games now, Halo infinite for instance sounds incredible in native Atmos. Gene I really wish you where more of a gamer and could evaluate this kind of stuff, if the high home theater world wants to survive into the future they need to start marketing to millennials and gaming more, we aren't kids any longer the oldest millennials are nearly 40 years old now.
I'm 46 and game pretty regularly. I can't imagine playing games in 2 channel stereo anymore. Won't hear enemies sneaking up from behind!
I like the the all channel stereo mode on my Denon X4500H. I like how some of the sounds are coming through the ceiling speakers. It sounds pretty cool 🔊🔊🔊🔊
Gene, knowing your enjoyment of Prog Rock - I came across a band I have never heard of that you might enjoy. Their recordings are done really well and available on Tidal. Enjoy!
I would start with Second Life Syndrome by Riverside
Yep I know then. Thanks
Thanks for the info Gene. I check it out on my Atmos system. Never bothered much to play with Stereo Upmixing.
Fantastic Gene. It's always good to see what it is that you're hearing graphically.
Great job, for SCIENCE.
Huzzah ole chap. :)
in my Pioneer Elite LX 304 I don't like none of the 2 channel upmixer dolby surround for listen to my music , it sound weak and with no presence at all , but on extended stereo setting, whoa!!! my music con alive , the sound is crisp , dynamic , bass is present , really is my favorite ,also I tried extended stereo in DENON and sound just fantastic
I loved DTS Neo 6 with music on my old Onkyo NR616. Closest I can get on my Denon X6400H is Dolby Surround with centre spread on but the DTS Neo sticks in my mind as being better. Also thanks to you Gene for showing in technical detail what we hear...I love to see the science behind real life.
Yes, I agree 100%! 😉👍
Gene, again my results are totally at odds with yours. With center spread off I definitely have the widest and most realistic sound stage when upmixing 2 channel program with center spread off. The only up mixer that I find acceptable is Dolby Digital Surround. This appears to be the only one that can make 2 channel music close to discrete multichannel sound without upsetting the tonal balance.
I played around with sweeps today and found the upmixer to be very discrete.
The really convincing demonstration which was an absolute decider for me as playing an old Decca 7.5ips 4 track tape: "A Journey in Stereo Sound." This was superbly recorded in 1959. It was issued on LP. But I played the tape version, so there was no possibility of interchannel crosstalk. It was played on my Revox A77 Mk IV, which is in perfect as new condition. This recoding has a lot of tracks, including steam trains, motor racing, symphonic excerpts, dance bands, and all sorts of good test material.
Now with the upmixer the host is dead center with extremely natural speech, with center spread off. With center spread on, the voice is not as well localized and the voice colored and a bit "chesty."
The is a band with trumpets left, percussion center and saxophones to the right. With center spread off everything is nicely balanced, and everything as it should be. Engage center spread, and the percussion sections spreads all over the sound stage.
What ever program I use to test, the sound stage is far wider and deeper with center spread off. When center spread is engaged the sound stage becomes narrower and most unnatural.
With my live live recordings done with a matrix technique or pure Blumlein, the degradation caused by center spread is extremely dramatic.
I have no idea why our results vary so much. Possible it is because of my center channel. I think I'm more proud of that speaker than any other. It is an incredibly natural and accurate speaker, producing really realistic natural speech. I'm yet to find another center than can get close to matching it.
The other possibility is that these upmixers are implemented differently on different units. Mine is the Marantz AV7705. With that unit in my room, I continue to be absolutely stunned how good it is. How it manages to produce such discrete channels from two, I have no idea.
That is very strange. I showed how the DSU with center spread extracts everything common between the left/right channels above a few hundred hertz and dumps into the center channel. I suppose that can be ok if you're not at the MLP centered between the left/right speakers but not something I personally like in any systems I've set up. I do agree with you that the DSU is the best upmixer for 2CH music in terms of making the extraction sound discrete in the surround channels.
@@Audioholics I can not replicate the left and right signals getting dumped into the center channel unless they are identical and are actually center channel information, which they would be as that would be center information. Image localization remains excellent on my rig. If I activate center spread, then center information also appears in the left and right speakers, which is not desirable.
I am astonished how the Dolby upmixer does recreate discrete and defined channels. If I put a signal on the left or the right channel, then the output from my center is barely perceptible, and totally insignificant. If I put equal inputs on the left and right, that almost all the output is from the center.
I don't know why our rigs seem to handle this so differently. The effect is not confined to the MLP. I wonder if this upmixer is implemented differently on different devices, or may be your center is too loud.
I do not have any boost to the center. As far as I can tell all channels are carefully and correctly balanced.
The fact remains that my system operates the polar opposite of what you describe when activating center spread. The deleterious effect of center spread in my rig, is not subtle in any way, and seriously adverse.
@@Tuscanskipper My theory is 2CH should not be messed with. Center Spread OFF extracts common info from L/R channels and dumps it to the center. I don't like this for music especially bc my phantom center is so good at the MLP from my main speakers. I do like this for 2CH movie material especially when NOT sitting at the MLP.
Yes my center is cranked up about 2dB louder than the rest as this is desirable in most cases as movie mixes tend to NOT mix well to the center for reasons beyond the scope of this chat.
Most people prefer center spread on for 2CH upmixing in my experience so you're a lone wolf which is fine and great that we have the option to suite our preferences.
@@Audioholics What I am telling you is that on my system the right and left is NOT getting dumped into the center channel to any significant degree. Center spread on the other hand dumps a lot of center info into the left and right speakers, and destroys localization and the sound stage.
I actually find that the Dolby up mixer does an excellent job of recreating the ambience of the hall. It really does manage to impose the acoustics of the venue on your room. I should state that my system is not typical, as all 11 speakers are of a very high standard indeed, and the room has optimal dimensions. The front left and right are true integrated full range speakers.
So this system is not a typical set up by a long shot, and is carefully calibrated and set up, without Audyssey.
Thanks for providing these recommendations backed up by the effort of measurements. Other channels would just say “do this because I like how it sounds to me on my system in my room” - totally useless except to contribute to the tribalism!
Unfortunately, the anthem products don’t have the center spread option as far as I can tell. I just stick to running stereo.
I use a Dynaco QD-2 to upmix my 2 ch to 5 ch stereo. Works great!
Gene, I was just about to purchase the RX A6A but since there is no center spread, should I avoid that product entirely? I’m very disappointed although they do have Auro. I love Yamahas Web UI and interface so this is disheartening
I never upmix for all of the reasons in this video. I want to hear the sound in its native format, and upmixing detracts from that experience. Just because you hear sound coming from the height channels doesn't make the experience better. Another thing is Auro 3D messing with my bass levels is unacceptable to me because I've fully calibrated my system. I don't shouldn't have to recalibrate just for Aura 3D getting it wrong. I use native sound formats for stereo, 5.1, 7.1, DTSX and Dolby Atmos. I never upmix ever because in my mind, it takes away from the way the sound was meant to be heard.
I agree. The only thing I upmix is 2 channel TV programs to DTS Neo 6 Cinema.
It’s the opposite for us. Forever spoiled by immersive listening using Auromatic as it takes our listening experience to a hnl (sorry for the SNL reference).
You know, I really do understand and agree with why you want the sound that was meant to be heard. But if you even a little looked at the studios and how they are remixing for home releases you would pull your hair out and never use the phrase "meant to be heard" ever again. Instead you would come to realize that unless you use "Kaleidescape" solutions that pull straight from the cinema release mixes to your home, you are detracting from your experience significantly. (keep in mind there are exceptions)
Love to see what all channel stereo does to the bass
What about "multi-channel stereo" or "all channels stereo?" Not technically an upmixer, I guess, but it's a way to get your 2-channel sources into more than 2 speakers.
Gene, Denon/Marantz very recently released an update to the Dolby Surround Upmixer that addressed the "Center Channel sound bleed into the surrounds" issue on Dec. 15th, 2021. Was your evaluation done on the previous version of DSU or the updated version of DSU?
No my evaluation was done on Storm Audio processor
Curious. If i have a 5.1.2 small/medium living room. For movies, auro3d is best to have greater effect(10-15) or less? And set to small, medium, large, or Movie? Using denon x3800h. Thanks!
Hi Gene, question... So many people seem to slate Auro yet my dad swears by it (my other guru 😂) what's your feelings on it and why do you think it's generally thought of as unpopular? Thanks. Nath
People want to hate on the leader (Dolby Atmos) and root for the underdog (Auro 3D). Auro 3D is a dead format relegated to upmixing. It is a good upmixer for music and I sometimes prefer it over the DSU depending on source material in that regard. Definitely don't compromise speaker placement or the AV Product choice based on Auro. Focus on property Dolby Atmos set up and calibration.
@@Audioholics sound advice, as ever, cheers buddy
This aged well. No sarcasm.
IMO, native Atmos orchestral and movie soundtracks sound phenomenal. But for everything else, I still prefer the hi-res stereo mix, upmixed with Auro-3D.
I feel like a lot of Spacial mixes just send different instruments and noises "hard panned" to specific speakers. bouncing around sometimes for fun. They lack the depth 3d imaging you can experience with 2 channel (most people never will) I'm not in the studio, so its hard to call out specifically what they are doing.
In my mind a complete phantom bubble is what the goal should be. In a perfect world, all the speakers should be transparent. Which many achieve with 2 channel. There seems to be a disconnect somewhere in the chain of multichannel production and "Re-"production. Unless you might know some multi mixes that don't suck?
New Pioneer lx505 has center spread option still. Assuming Onkyos and other Pioneers do as well.
Any comment on how broken Dolby upmixing is on anything that isn't music?
What I mean is when using Dolby surround, it puts vocals in ALL speakers at nearly ALL times. Even sometimes voices sounding louder in the rear instead of the front/center despite the sound obviously only coming from the front.
Neural X doesn't have this issue and works as intended.
When I play my SACDs from the Sony DVP-CX777ES jukebox I use the 2 channel RCA outputs into the Sony STR ZA5000ES receiver. I use the Neural:X feature for what sounds to me like the best sound, over Dolby surround or Multi Stereo.
The same with the Sony UBP-X1100ES 4K Blu-ray player.
What does it take to get the most out of an SACD? The jukebox has 5.1 RCA outs. Is that the "best" way?
The Auro medium dip must be an error. Will be interesting to find out.
i have dolby center spread in rather budget atmos and dtsx denon avrx 3300w together with audyssey app and using external amps for main 5 channels and love listening 2 channel music upmixed by the receiver, i know its not precise listening but gives me interesting effects spreading sound stage between all speakers and finally more fun listening which music is all about..? with that said my old onkyo tx nr 607 was better for music 2 channel listening.. - great content can u make some content about external dacs /especially in budget friendly amps/recivers/ affecting sound quality from external sources like PC please
Hey man are you in the 413 area code by any chance?
@@josephfranzen5626 hi no i am based in ireland - 413 comes from yamaha 413 my first keyboard hehe
Thanks Mr. Gene!
Regarding up-mixing 2.0 content, I wonder if you could possibly clear something up, people, including myself are reporting an the issue with dialogue bleeding into the rear (and front L&R) channels using Dolby surround when up-mixing from 2.0, this is something I and others have experienced on the new Advantage Receivers, nobody seems 100% sure if this is what Dolby intended with this up-mixer, I guess part of the confusion is we were used to how Dolby Pro-Logic worked which locked the dialogue to the centre channel. On my RX-A4A for example when watching 2.0 content from TV, using Dolby surround I can hear the dialogue coming from all channels, if you have your surround speaker near your head it dominates over the centre channel for dialogue, is this normal?
I think it's a bug.
@@missing1102 Maybe, who knows for sure, there doesn't seem to be a concrete answer, Yamaha have at least said to me that they are looking into it, I found this quote today "Sound United rep said that the resolved firmware is not identical to the older (pre-dialog bleed issue) version from Dolby so depending on the content, it might still be heard although at much lesser degree. And that this is the best that Dolby can do with this decoder version.", if this is true I guess it can't be fixed, guess we'll just have to wait and see what Yamaha come up with.
@@lowrider007007 yeah I read that about Denon/Marantz that's what I thought. I feel like the upmixing thing is so different for each brand.
Hey Gene did you do a sweep in rew in Auro or just measure the music
REW
Need more video tips like this
I never found any better upmixer than the one in MusicBee. The only gripe I have is that the bass is not very tight and quite boomy. The rest is almost as good as a true 5.1 music album.
Still waiting for your UHD muscle tutorial. Are resistance bands snake oil?
I jump between Auro 3d (large 7) & direct 2 channel. Depends on the style of music.
Dennon 4400h with Auro 9spker set up plus 2 subs. I much preferred the old Logic 7 codec, which to me, didn't mess with the stereo, I'd use w/o a ctn channel and just enjoy the side/rear surround which sounded very natural to me. I want to like my Auro set up, but the ctn channel ruins it for me, it doesn't sound natural compared to stereo. I have mine set to small, but up to like 14. I feel like big just seems to add reverb or artificially creates a bigger space. I love Auro for movies where it's taking a dolby or DTS signal, but for any upmixing, I'm disappointed and go back to basic stereo. Since I've treated a dedicated home theater for 1st and 2nd reflections as well as bass traps at all corners and center ceilings/walls, stereo sounds almost 3 dimensional on well produced music. I'm not sure why the small setting was dismissed unless I missed it in the video.
You raise very valid points. All the new upmixers dump too much to the center channel. You can adjust this a bit in Auro but still PLIIx Music was the best of all of them, IMO. Anthem Music Mode is really good so try that IF you get an Anthem product in the future.
can someone please tell me why my Roku ultra will not show me my upmix menu as in aromatic or DTX in my movie or music . button on my Marantz 8805A .Should I just get a Apple 4k or Sheild ? .What is the best streaming device for this ?
Please help
What does the center image settings mean and does it work like center spread
Hey Gene, I just heard that Sound United was bought by a medical group. ????? What's up with that ? Do a show or send me an response. I use a Beringer 31 band EQ, and an BBE 882I for the best possible sound effect in stereo from an Emotiva 2 ch amp. My old 1993 JVC 5.1 AVR does have various sound fields, but I don't use them. Someday I will uograde that AVR.
I use Auro for Movies or DTSX which I prefer for movies But I do use Auro 2 chan for music
Love that ELP shirt!!
Dolby! Please bring back the real deal Dolby prologic II! I truly miss that and it blows my mind it's not offered anymore. It really bothers me.
You can use the upmixers only if you set the blu ray signal to PCM i stead of „Auto“ or Bitstream. And your StormAudio is best in class and costs appr. 17.500€ :-)
Beautiful!
Thank you 👍🏾
could you maybe do a video about 2CH Upmixer for movies? best results among the three (DSU/DTSNX/A3D)?
th-cam.com/video/NtXd3VtfwYM/w-d-xo.html
@@Audioholics this video is 5.1 Music Upmixing and focuses on Music. I saw you had few videos about upmixing 2CH when music in mind (focusing on music). I would love to have the same focusing on Movies as many of older titles (many on Netflix are 2CH - sound: "HD" they call it). so I was wondering if you got one already focusing on Movie upmixing (2CH) or if you can create one.
Dolby up mix for two channel TV
Auro 3D for music!
What is the center image setting used for under dsu
Dolby with center spread on my Outlaw 976 Pre-pro. Speaking of Outlaw, no Pre-pro or Receiver being offered at all to replace the 976 which for me is extremely disappointing. You go on their webpage and there's hardly anything there anymore. Very unfortunate...good company but no new products being offered.
Sounds Good.
As you pointed out, the new Yamaha does the same thing as if center spread off and dumps most frequencies into center with every upmixer and mode when outside of 2 channel mode, like you said. Doesnt sound very good to listen to music on the new Yamahas unless you feel like listening to 2 channel. Which isnt what everyone wants
I listen to music in multichannel stereo which is left and right on front and back with a mono center
Somebody needs to show us how to set up Auro 3D the proper way
I tried all the options over the years. But I prefer 9 Channel stereo. With 2 subs.
Every time I enable center spread on my Denon I think of Audioholics ❤️
Hey i have a Denon 4700H and 2 Emotiva Amp running 5.2.4 full pre-out. The volume is very weak now, so i have to turn more up for the volume then before.
How can this be i thought it would be the opposite. ?
Did you experience that right from the beginning? You mean as soon as you added external amps?
@@HarryM2022 I started to use one external amp the emotiva xpa-3 and i was a bit disappointed. Then i added the emotiva A7 for the other channels so it can run pre-amp mode. but after i did that the volume was low i had to turn alot up before i get the same volume then before. I can play very very loud but i wanna have so it get loud quick not when i am at 80 procent volume. So far the pre out upgrade has been a totally waste of money, i can only hear a little diffrence when it is very loud
@Djenk O the emotiva basX A7 gives you 90w per channel into 8ohms. If you had your channels connected to the avr you would have comparable output (roughly ~75-80W per channel). So you wouldn't expect dramatic output effect. The difference would be better separation, and the denon runs cooler since you turned off its internal amplification. I have 5.1.4 system with emotiva xpa5 for the floor channels but I run the atmos from the avr.
Of course the xpa 3 makes a difference for the 3 channels since its powerful. How does the 2 channel listening sound?
@@HarryM2022 Yes i know and the separation is also ok good and all amps are not hot at all so that is also cool. The dynamic and power is also better the Volume goes from 0-100 and 30-40 and up will become loud, now it like 60 to 80 is very very loud and before 60 it is not that loud. Maybe it just change the Volume when you go separate. I have more the enough power it is just weird that the volume has change like that.
Tried upmixing but found it unnatural. With just the front floorstanders, tremendous room filling sound, no muddying things up. Still tinker with upmixing but always go back to 2 channel when i settle in and let the music bathe over me.
I prefer Dolby Pro logic 2x , Logic 7 upmixer.
CD music through my Denon x3800. To my ear Auro 3D sounded OK.... interesting. In Auro 2D music sounds much more spatial , open like they added some reverb effects equalizer or something to add feeling of open space. However I don't think to my ear Auro 2d or 3d is good for music. For music I much Prefer 2 Channel using Pure Direct mode. To my ear in Pure Direct is best it just sounds right 2 channel nice Sound with centre phantom image yet u be fooled to believe centre channel on.. To me Auro 2d or 3d is awsome for Movies and Gaming MW, Cyber Punk, and or just upmixing a lowsy source.
Best Upmixer for 2CH Music is "Straight" 😉
The key word you’re missing with this comment is “upmixing” …2ch stereo isn’t upmixed at all. 😛
Well technically you're up mixing from 2.0 to 2.1 in straight mode, adding a subwoofer channel, unless Frank meant 'Pure mode' or Source Direct'.
Agreed... Its an equation at the end of the day, immersiveness over quality...I think poorer quality recordings may benefit greatly to the "up mixing" fad...
@@lowrider007007 Yes, you are right, Straight has bass management enabled - which makes sense in most cases.
I have never been happy with upmixers. They all mess up on some songs and that takes me out of the moment! Apple Music is better with spatial audio but again, a disaster on every 5th song. Keeping it strictly 2-channel for these reasons!
Auro 3D is bankrupt now.
I don't like the old tech. It sucks and always has.