The Cotter Pin Question. What's The Proper Installation? Multiple Answers On This One!
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IMHO, that cotter pin is loose because the nut is too far past the hole, a washer or two would help. Based on my 25 years of Aviation Maintenance with 15 being in Quality Assurance, the accepted way is the first way you did it, with the tail cut and bent down over the nut, if the nut was installed correctly after aligning with the hole, the second way is acceptable as long as you turn the cotter pin sideways. In the Aerospace world, using a cotter pin twice is a definite NO NO, automotive might be another thing. Great channel, I have learned a lot from watching, keep up the great content, and I am glad you don't "script" your videos. 😉
you are correct and it is split pin! the english invented them. So thats what they are!
If it was an aircraft your diatribe would have merit.
You didnt need to try and validate your qualifications by listing your Resume.
What it did show was you do not have the common sense to differentiate between aircraft and vehicles.
Wrenching with Kenny does NOT fix aircraft. If he did, then your argument would be solid.
yeah the castle isnt even shimmed up to capture the pin head. No wonder its rattling about. Do this on a boat trailer and you get a seized bearing and the castle nut is going to rip the pin around it flat soon as a slot grabs it. The first method is the preffered method on non sealed taper rollers as it stops the annoying grease churning you get with the tang up the sides method.
@@berty1422 even for vehicles the nut is too far up past the hole and needs a spacer so the pin is snug between the castles. ASE certified training explains this and I've seen it in countles manuals for aftermarket suspension parts 🙄
This helped me with the hand truck my boyfriend got. Very helpful straight to the point video! And i like the story at the end. This is what TH-cam was made for. Thank you!
I'm so glad I was able to help. Thanks for watching 🔧
In the military, I was taught to bend the top of the cotter pin over the top of the bolt then cut it. The other part of the cotter pin is bent down toward the bottom of the nut and trimmed off. The loop end of the cotter pin needs to sit in the groove of the nut to have any effectiveness. Have been using this method ever since and I'm a really old fart.
Exactly as I was taught 50 years ago. Nut shown in the video should have had a hardened washer under it so the cotter pin was more deeply rooted in the castle
60 yrs in and that is the way i was taught from day1 and i continue today. Cotter pins that way are a one time use. It could be different today.
I'm in my seventies and I totally agree. 😂
I don't think I've ever seen one bent over the nut.
@@homealone5087bent over the nut is the correct way its the standard for marine and aircraft. Side tang causes grease churning on unseleled high speed application taper rollers like on small aircraft wheels or boat trailers doing 100mph on the way to the ramp. Also sideways wraped tangs are known to be ripped out flat by castle nuts when massive bearing failure/seizure happens. People on here arent what they claim, i was in UK REME as Airtech for 2 decade and turned Marine Mech turned boat builder. One guy on this comment section claimed Aircraft never use split pins. Just total tripe ive been wire locking and split pinning Aircraft & Boats for 3 and a half decade now.
When I was younger, I'd reuse them. No failure. Now I buy them in bulk and just replace them. Cool video.
if its loose like the one you showed i use a hardened steel washer to make it tighter. then its up in the castle nut bend straight down and cut and the other end i trim close. i hate to need to feel around and get cut or scraped by a cotter key. on the older vehicles where we packed the wheel bearings all i do is pick a cotter key long enough to barely stick thru where it doesn't need to be cut or bent. then tap the cover on how can it get out gravity is on your side, i have seen the cap knocked on and the key not cut properly and cut the cap into. my father did it that way i am 66 always done it that way never had a problem been a paid mechanic most of my life. like you say some will not agree but works for me.
lol.... Re-use a cotter pin? Up here, not an option. 50% we're drilling out what's left!
Really admiring you channel!
😂 It's just another bump in the rust blob of what use to be a castle nut
I don't even try to pull the old one out. Tap on a socket. Spin the nut off. And drill out the pieces. Much quicker than fighting a rusted pin.
@@donmunro144 Yup, you can tell they do not treat the roads where Kenny lives.
In Northern climates, most cars don't get past 100,000 miles before everything rusts out.
Finding a cotter pin that you can remove is a rare object.😄😄
Add washers so head seats into nut slot. Bend over the top, then other leg down against nut.
I like the way you do it better thanks for that tip.
That's how I always did it . And I've always reused them unless I broke them .
Short and simple. Thank you Sir 👍
Gosh I need an A&P video
It really needs a couple of washers under the nut. For the split pin to work properly, the hole needs to be inside the slotted part of the nut.
In most cases the cotter pin does fit between the nut slots. However, as he showed in his video and the way he locked down the cotter pin, it will not allow that nut to loosen enough to make any difference! As for placing washers behind a nut can also cause problems later!
@@goodcitizen64rubbish. if you dont shim the castle nut so the pin is fully slotted then you can rip the entire pin through the nut like a wet flannel on high speed aplications like small aircraft and even doing 90mph in your small boat trailer. Ripped through split pins are the direct result of not shimming correctly and its the very reason your hub assembly if bought separately comes with washer mate. Just quit it with the misinfo ok, it can get people hurt
Split Cotter pins are designed to be used with one tang bent over the tip of the stud like the first method you showed. There are a few reasons, Firstly its proven to hold castle nuts on in the event of serious bearing failure as its the girth of the pin that takes the load, the sideways method with the tang bent upside the nut flats they can be pulled flat and basically streached out because they dont have as much strength in that direction. They can be fitted on aircraft and boats sideways only if its for clearance reasons but the first method is preffered. Secondly on high speed applications on tappered roller bearings that arent sealed on the outer at the hub cap the pin itself can cause grease churning as the tangs are basically bent up in front of the bearing where the grease is churned out the gap between the cage and the shaft ring. So thats why they are fitted like the first method but where you went mentioned m with the one rattling about well thats a badly fitted one as you tension the pin head while you pull the bigger tang around the front of the stud. get the front tang fully positioned and trimmed so you dont need to go back and shape it. From there you cut the back tang to side and punch it over at an angle or into the castle nut slot. This ensures a snug perfect fitment and no stressed out areas and is easy to get off. See half the play in pins its because the guy fitting them has went back and tried to reshape the first tang and tidy it in a bit after theyve got the second tang sweet. Then they need to go back and do the second tang a bit becase they moved the first tang about. 4 decade ex military aircraft now civilian marine mech and boat builder. Cheers.
Bro, cotter pin should be in the center of the castle nut, you need a washer under the nut to space it out so the cotter pin fits correctly.
Motorcycle foot-peg pins are sometimes held in place with a single flat washer and cotter pin.
1:10 that castle nut is improperly installed. To properly install a castle nut, you use a washer ( sometimes 2 ) to ensure that the hole in the bolt or lug is lined up INSIDE the openings of the castle nut cut outs. NOT BELOW IT.
Then, _and ONLY then_ do you install your cotter pin, bending it exactly as he shows - long leg bent up and over, short leg left straight.
Thank you for your comment. However, some Honda vehicles use standard nuts with cotter pins. Cotter pins are there as a redundant safety. Whatever the reason, the cotter pin debate goes on between military/aviation application vs. an automotive application. The debate will continue long after this video has run its course. Keep wrenching 🔧
I've been wondering about that thanks 👍
Thank you !!!
I had an arm fall off on a car we bought used from a dealer. the same nut you were just working on i don't know if the guy who didn't tighten it or put a cotter pin on, but nothing was on it now. luckily it happened a block from home not on a highway.
Works for me.
"I'm trying to think if there's any situation where I've ever run into where the cotter pin was what was holding something together and I've never actually seen that".
They do hold brake pads inside the disk brake calipers (tektro md-c550) on my bicycle.
With aircraft maintenance, they use ss wire to lock certain applications for a reason. Like you said on wheel bearings that is a place with high vibration and stress. If I see a castle nut, I pin it. There’s a reason. Great videos Kenny.
Yes, avionics we were taught that high stress areas and a split pin, replace when removed, as it is a very cheap item, but the failure of that joint is not. so i keep that big box of assorted split pins in the shop, and when I come to one snip and toss, grab a new one. As to the install pretty much the standard has been it must not move. so tap the head into the hole, bend over the top of the nut, and back down to the head , and cut off flush with head for that side. Other end tap down, flush with the nut. Only other was for pins that are there for pivots, where it was tap head hard in hole, and bend tang back around to be cut off next to head, as the split pin could not fret then and wear, and it was, along with a washer, the only thing holding that pin in position.
Locking wire done plenty, had the holes to prove it, but was lucky I did not do engines, where you have a single locking wire that goes around the engine every segment, that holds all those fasteners with a single wire, and it has to be correct every time. That one lock could take a day to do, and inspect, per engine ring section, just for the locking wire alone. 20 odd case sections to bolt together, and most of the fasteners there are all single use only, so there was a massive box of bolts and nuts that were free to use for anything else. Sheet metal shop used to make sculptures out of them, in lovely colours, as the titanium bolts hot to different temperatures as they heated up. Same for rivets, still have the odd bottles of assorted left over rivets that I use for joining sheet metal, as they are perfect for this, and better than pop rivets.
UK military Para turned ex-Air tech here. Im now a marine mech and small boat builder. On or Aircraft we had wire lock and split pins depending on what the application and type of vehicle. Aeroplanes have more wire locking than pins and our helicopters have a more of a mix. Where there was no mount or hole to wirelock things too we would reverse wirelock multiples together so two nearby fixings we would wire lock them togeter in opposite directions so neither could slacken too much. Split pin wise we used strictly the First method on this vid where one tang was pulled over the top of the stud and the other trimmed and pressed inside the castle slot. This way the pin was not overly bent or stressed in one place. The side method where you wrapped the tangs around the sides of the nut flats was only to be done if front cleance was an issue. Also on doubled up taper rollers the pin itseff would cause grease churning at high speeds if the wrap around the nut method was used.
I respect your method & reasoning for why. What i do is just that but i leave it a little bit loose. Reason being is that if work should need to be done again, the pin can slide out, or i can knock it back & forth to get it out.
Thanks good to know
As most have said, in aircraft maintenance never reuse a cotter pin. I was also taught to never leave them loose too. Being around people who haven't worked on aircraft look at me weird for always replacing cotter pins.
ehh? mate im in the UK an ex Air tech turned marine mech and boat builder. Ive fitted more split pins to aircraft than i have boats. Wire locked and split pinned Aircraft many many thousands of times man. What you on about?
also they are designed to be loose-ish especially on high speed castle nut fitments where the outter taper roller bearing is not sealed. Pure drivel your entire comment is wrong
Here in EIRE [ireland] we call them split pins , cotter pins are what hold a pedal on a bicycle
I have used nails instead of your type of pins ,works fine
Never ran into that much clearance, great solution if I ever do.
Just watched moog video. He put a washer before the castle nut,so the hole aligned with the castle nut slots.
I wou;d err on the side of replace simply because you bend a piece of metal it loses strength.
If you're pedantic like me, you always use new cotter pins, but I don't doubt that you can reuse them if they are in good shape either. The only drawback I could imagine from a loose cotter pin is if got caught somehow while off roading and tore off, but that's a thought experiment only. Nylok nuts and Threadlocker are awesome modern day replacements for cotters.
Back in your day, if you grew up around it, you already knew what you needed to know. Cars were stupid simple. It's a different animal now.
I remember this one time many yrs a go I owned an 89 ford tempo gls 5spd 2door and the exhaust came loose at the cat converter, I re connected it with a couple clamps and coupler., well the way I had those exhaust clamps facing downward wasn't too good of an ideah because a raccoon ran out in front of me and I was just crusin in 3rd downhill and there was just nothing I could do, poor raccoon got caught on the exhaust clamp and unfortunately the raccoon didn't make it.,, all I know is what I saw in review mirror seeing him roll over several times in slow motion, Nice Video!
In the example that castle nut went too deep, it needs a washer to ensure that the cotter pin would be inside the castle hence make its proper job
Working as a millwright/railroader, I always keep in mind, the next fella that has to remove the cotter pin. I leave one leg straight and bend the other about 30-40 degrees. It makes for easy removal when the time comes. Never had one fail or fall out yet. I have removed my own cotter pins with ease from 15 years ago, on equipment that vibrates like crazy. If you've ever had to punch or drill one out because somebody in the past tried to make the cotter pin look like spaghetti, you'll understand immediately. As soon as you bend either of the legs of a cotter pin, you have now weakened it. Granted, not by much, but for less than a nickel in most cases, just use a new one....and on the same note, your employer would probably not want to spend $0.50 for you to straighten out a $0.05 cent component. The same goes for your own projects....what's your personal time worth?
Been in aircraft for 30 years , we do it the first way you showed except have to cut the first bend in the middle of the nut and bend the second one also and cut
What Smitty was doing was giving you the confidence and inspiration to go above and beyond, by letting you work on his car.
It was his stamp of approval to inspire you to go with your heart.
Welcome back Cotter.
After hearing the the guy who makes 50$ an hour, at my place of work, explain that "you don't need to torque the 1 5/8in jam nut to spec because the cotter pin will keep it "pretty snug". Videos like this make me feel better about humanity.
cotter pin can serve 2 different purposes 1 to keep the castle nut from falling off if it gets loose. MY OPINION ONLY cotter pins were designed to work mostly with castle nuts in that application can serve 2 functions keeping the nut reasonably tight and also keeping the castle nut from falling off should it get loose. MY OPINION ONLY main thing about a cotter pin is if you use it to bend it in what ever way you want to just be sure the way you bent it, it stays in place
castle nuts are specifically designed so the pin sits like the first method shown here. Pins to be used with washer surfaces or flat surfaces the pin is to be used sideways tang. This is the exact design and use of the pins despite what all these fake air techs on here are claiming. One so called Air tech on this comment section claiming they dont fit split pins in aircraft hahahaha they fit more split pins on aircraft alongside wire locking than they do on boats. Ridiculous levels of lying on the comment section here.
white plains hs wow kenny im from longisland in ny
Kenny, what should you do when the cotter pin goes through the castellated part of the nut, and when you torque the nut correctly the cotter collides with the middle of one of the castellations? Should you loosen the nut or tighten it in order to line up the slot?
Tighten till it lines up.
I love it LOL if you have to explain the characteristics of a cotter pin to someone they probably shouldn't be involved in the project DS
Can we cotter pin the nuts who drive 55 on the interstate in the left lane? lol😂
Like you said (kinda) to each their own. That said, I cannot imagine reusing a cotter pin unless it was during a road side repair and a new one was unavailable. A new cotter pin cost between 2 cents and a dime for most of them and even the super expensive ones are just a few more cents. Why take even the smallest of risks or leave an old greasy cotter pin in to save a couple of cents. I am not as smart about mechanics as most the people who watch this channel but my Dad always to,d me that is I was going to do a job, do it right and don’t cut corners. I hate it when mechanics load up the parts cannon and just start replacing things that are fine. If a part is $200 or even $10 and in good working condition, put it back on the car. But cotter pins? I don’t think so.
The one exception I can think of for other parts are for routine maintenance items that are very difficult to get to and the labor is way more expensive than the parts (spark plugs or coils for example and only on certain cars where they are really challenging to get to). Even if they are fine right now, IF you have spent a couple hours to remove a bunch of engine parts for a job and finally worked your way down to them I would go ahead and change them since I was already there and knowing they would probably need to be replaced in the next year or two anyway. Save the customer the extra labor charge down the road and take a couple of minutes to replace the plugs (or whatever it is). Of course, that would only be after customer approval.
should have used a washer to space the nut
I've seen baterd UP cotter pins on Huey helicopters
How much did yer boss charge them for adjusting a cotter pin?
Cotter pins are cheap. Always change with a new one. I just had one fall off from a clutch finger on my model T Ford. As a result the threaded adjuster worked it’s way out and was banging on the inside of the transmission housing. I found one part of the pin in the oil after draining but the larger part is still somewhere in the transmission. This is bad because a model T has electrical windings in the transmission and a a bit of metal could tear things up. The cotter pin was a cheap one from Harbor Freight and compared to old American ones it was really soft metal. So, cotter pins can hold something important and fatigue can cause them to fail and cause real harm.
I install new cutter keys simply because it's easier.
On the loose or reusing split pin debate, here in the Uk a loose pin would be rusted solid within a few weeks and on anything but things like wheel bearings you'll never get one out in one piece anyway so you can't reuse them. Why would you want to bother straightening and weakening them when they cost pennies?
nails.. all i use.... not hahhaa tho we all seen it iam sure hahaha .. hahha at 5 years old. took every bolt i could off a outboard grand dad had in garge. hahha he was pissed.. he had just got it back from the shop lol.. been wrench all my life also.. i fix all my own stuff. pull motors transfers trannys. not the ones that dont know if there male or female lol ... i love it
Split pin, we call it here, ok ?
There are several reasons why you would use a new cotter pin, as a shop owner I don't have time to be straightening out cotter pins when they're so dirt cheap as I buy them by the hundreds. Number two once you bend a cotter pin it becomes weak at that point. No I understand that cotter pins are used to make sure the bolt does are loosen but like you said if it's preloaded properly a cotter pin is like a scumbag with a hole in it, it's useless. My whole thing is why would you use a used cotter pin it makes absolutely no sense. Customers pay a lot of money to have their cars repaired, so give them what they deserve and replace the cotter pin and don't be a cheap piece of trash. Other than that I bend them exactly the way you do every single time. I have no issues with giving my customers new cotter pins it's ridiculous to believe or do otherwise
That's a SPLIT PIN! You've fitted the nut wrongly. It needs a spacer (washer) behind it, to make the SPLIT PIN fit snugly. For your further information, look here to find out what a cotter pin is:
th-cam.com/video/oL-Pzuo_EHg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=M4IjJgXXdAslXAhU
If it’s not broken. Put it back.
Who needs cotter pins? Just use the nail and bend it.
Why go to all the trouble to straighten them when a pack of ten is a few dollars.
This video is incorrect. The hole in the bolt for the pin needs to be within the castle so the pin is snug. Would need to add a spacer in this case
Wrong. Ur coter pin will brake and your nut will be loose. Check the torque after a month and ull c
The installation is incorrect, as others have stated, there should be a washer to allow the split pin to pass through the castellated nut, installing it that way in a steering linkage is irresponsibly dangerous.
Furthermore the pin should be replaced with a proper sized one, they are cheap after all, this video should not be used as a guide, if Kenney has done it this way for 40 odd years, he's been doing it wrong for 40 odd years.
Garbage. The cotter pin is redundant on a vehicle. I have NEVER seen a nut sitting on a pin and preventing the nut from falling off.
That is all it does, It doesn't stop the nut loosening, only prevent it falling off.
You are obviously not a Mechanic, maybe an armchair Technician.
As Kenny says - that is how HE does it!
It doesn't matter what others think or do.
42 seconds in and already he's laying out a load of BS.
Put a hook on the end of a chain and leave out the cotter pin because it is a "redundant system" . See how that works out for you when your running down the road at 55mph with your tractor chained down on the trailer minus cotter pins.
Kenny says, " _It's NOT there to take the place of torquing something correctly or something being tightened correctly_ "
*_W R O N G_* !!!!!!!!!!! It is PRECISELY there to take the place of torquing something or something being tightened, be it correctly or incorrectly. You're gonna get somebody killed.
People, the purpose of a cotter pin is 100% dependent upon the relative application. Sometimes it is a redundant safety item and is not meant to be the primary preventer of parts loss. OTHER times, it is indeed the primary preventer of parts lost. Again, consider attaching a standard 3/8" hook on chain. The cotter pin is not only the PRIMARY preventer of losing your clevis pin, it is the *_ONLY_* preventer of losing your clevis bolt. Think first.
Blah blah blah, get to the point, nobody wants to hear your life story or your drama. Bragging isn’t becoming on any man.