ZF vector differential
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2010
- ZF how does the ZFs vector differential work. This system gives more power to the outher wheel in a curve to make the car more agile
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This video is property of ZF - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Engineer: How many differential gears do you want?
Manager: Yes.
I never knew how they worked, and after watching this I still don't know how they work, only now I know they exist even if only on paper.
Same for me must have one between my hand and see my self
What, the stupid music didn't describe it very well? I agree - taking an animation from ZF and presenting it without any narration or captions is pretty much useless.
They do exist:
www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29320.html
The ZF material isn't much better.
Each side has a set of gears and clutch that, when the clutch is engaged, applies more torque to that side.
The early Acura SH-AWD system used a overdrive gear set or "Acceleration device" with individual clutch packs on each side of the diff that could engage and disengage independently to over drive a outside rear wheel. SH-AWD uses the VSA system to apply brakes to the inside wheels when cornering while the diff over drives the outside rear wheel to help rotate the rear and hug the corner. Honda has been playing with Torque Vectoring for years with the Prelude Type-SH which had ATTS.
Well, this all and great, and I do like it. Very clever. But it represents one thing I don't like: the constant rise in vehicle purchase cost and repair where the common man and woman can't afford them anymore.
thank you. that was the clearest I've ever seen it explained.
That Diff Box looks HUGE!!! The Acura System for the SH-AWD uses Vectoring Torque as well with no need for this giant Diff Box...
Extra složitý řešení. Nejsložitější co existuje. J.CH.
Thanks in a million. Great content. Awesome imagination. Grade: A++💥
I wish someone is out there to fix this useless background music.
Turn the volume down 🧐
@@markkennewell1296 I don't think he knows about that technology!! it's pretty new!! LOL
I will take a brake based torque vectoring thank you.
@belaruz Thank you belaruz. That is exactly what I was asking. Now days engineers do some really great stuff with both electric and fluid actuation of things. I figured I'd ask which form of actuation was used in this creation. Thank you.
look very nice, but if something go wrong, very expensive repair though.
Tecnologia cada dia se renovando,se multiplicando cada dia.
Seems like a good idea on paper but in reality it's just another way to over complicate a modern vehicle for something else to go wrong.
And also looks like its heavy and will eat a few HP from the engine.
With normal differential u cant transfer force to the torque to go to the outside wheel, u can only make sure the inside wheel doesn't spin. But with this differential you can make sure the outside wheel is spinning faster and at the same time to have more torque on it, following making it much faster in corners. It's complicated but it will win you a lot of time on the track!
@@ReDDeViLW1nS or just go with torsen differential witch is cheaper and more efficient
My drive 20 car with that in it works better than what they make in the USA
Drifter .F
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Thanks Great Video
I have worked at Acura since 2003, Since 2005 to 2013 never seen SH-AWD go bad yet
The inner helical cut gears are connected to the differential carrier and the ring gear. The outer helical gears are connected to the axle stubs. That should help some.
Excellent Completely Impressive
Muita coisa girando, imagina o tanto de potencia isso rouba do motor.
i have the same opinion as you regarding the electric motors, but this stuff is very important as it leads to better traction of wheels and more stable car.
Баловство это, чем проще тем надёжней
Two clutches, two sets of split helical planetary gears and pinions, two servo motors to activate the clutches, all to get to soccer practice and the hair salon. Service writers love to see these moms hit the drive.
In the case of the rear Diff shown, torque is directed to the rear wheel outside the turn to literally push the car, from that wheel/corner of the vehicle, pointing the vehicle into the turn, to steer faster and/or more securely. The GT-R35 uses similar technology, on the front and rear axle, giving the car it's handling capabilities.
DIFERENCIAL REVOLUCIONÁRIO; Parabéns o Inventor !!!………Ótimo em curvas ou pistas Escorregadias !!!………Ótimo em TRAÇÃO nas Duas Rodas POSITIVA OK💡💡💡💡💡👏👏👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍OK…………OK………………………
@StevesProjects this diff is electronicly supported. a torsen-diff is purely mechanical. due to its construction it only lowers traction losses while the diff in this video tries to actively avoid slip at all. in order to do its job it needs reaction time () while the torsens effect is imminent.
after all these two systems are different in any possible way.
This music along with the motif of the vid makes me wanna build my SUPER GIGANTIC EVIL ROBOT AND CRUSH ALL THE PUNY MORTALS!!
Sorry, got carried away; excellent demo and helped explain differentials in normal operating conditions.
I agree with those who say it looks complicated, but I disagree with those who think the faster-turning wheel is shown to be on the wrong side. Those who say this are focusing their attention on the outer part of the planetary sets, which are changing the torque output, rather than focusing on speed of the axle and wheel (also, the speed of the visible part of each clutch pack matches that of the part of the planetary set which increases in speed on the side facing the inside of the turn, so don't be fooled by that either). Focus on the speed of the axle itself on each side and you can get a better idea what's really happening. Start by looking at the axle ends within the differential itself. I wish they would have put visible markers on the wheels to make their rotational speed more obvious.
It looks like the torque is multiplied to the wheel where the clutch is engaged but a torsen does same thing without needing clutches so it’s not a fully capable torque vectoring. If one wheel is in the air (say in a tight corner or off road) or ice, the other looses torque as well.
OBRIGADO !
The "red effect" is not braking, its locking the side in a way it receives additional torque from planetary gear and turns up to 10% faster.
good technology...
Can you imagine paying the dealer to fix this.
+neal jensen Im sure its not field serviceable . Prob an exchange unit R&R..
@neal jensen
$100,000.000. 00 in parts . . . labor not included ! ! !
Joy of ownership on most things is great until warranty runs out.
just looks to me like they made something very simple, very complicated.
i absolutely agree. german over engineering something simple
Very stupid idea.. there is no sense putting a planetary gears to a differential.
German engineering 101
Mmmm just like leaving us a dipstick tube but no dipstick... and having to wait 4 days just to electronically check the oil levels on the dashboard effin madness
Now thats a big differential! Whats the advantage of the ZF type over, say, a Torson differential which is a quarter of the size?
Simple. ZF states: "This system gives more power to the outher wheel in a curve to make the car more agile"
That's what Honda's and Audi's do. And if I'm not mistaken, 1980 and 2005 come before 2013.
WOW, that is an awesome creation. Is the actuation mechanism fluid or electric? What is the reaction time of the activation?
Very nicely made animation. I often wish I had that sort of computer knowledge.
Thanks.
Looks like a stupid idea
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of the point of the complication here. Whether or not this is really needed is open to debate of course. However, the idea is to be able to vary the amount of torque delivered to the wheels while still achieving the differential speed action. Braking one of the wheels would achieve a similar effect, but would waste some of the available power. This system doesn’t waste the power. It is true that there is increased rotating mass, and greater complexity, more expense, and more to break and wear out. But it does achieve the desired result: controllable torque distribution on demand.
As far as I understand this, they have kind of mounted an epiciclic reduction gear at each side of the main differential, that gears in into the final output shaft.
When the friction locks the normally freespinning "driver" gear, the effect is that the epiciclic assembly acts like a reduction + differential gear, slowing down (as seen from the "main" differential )the final output shaft, but augmenting the torque seen by the outer wheel.
There is a loss of power, I think minimal, in the transient state, when the freewheeler is neither locked neither allowed to go.
Anyway, even if it isnthe simplest system to yave this in an I.C. car it is indeed quite complex, for something an electric car can have almost for free.
Electric cars can use dual motors for torque vectoring but most of them don’t seem to do it and prefer the simplicity of open difs left right. For front/rear axles yes they have separate powertrains but here we talk about torque vectoring left right not awd torque f/r split. But if you have a tesla or an i3 replacing the open diff core with the same size torsen diff (1x3 amplification) can result in awesome traction through cornes.
how can the 2 sun-gears in one planetary gear rotate at different speed, while the planet gears are equal? Shouldn't there be bigger and smaller sun gear and planet gears in one planetary set? i thought that's where the overspeed comes from
ditto... there's something awry here
The planetary gears are not involved in speed change. The open diff in the middle takes care of that. I think the planetary gear set is there so that those clutch pads can apply the brake when needed (like when one tire is slipping).
aNiederbayer ˋ
@@mstfici2685 don't need planetary gears to do it ..it's LSD .just clutch plates do it better
@Rotemetoot Right around 36 seconds, if you pay close attention to the center gears that are rotating toward the drive shaft you see them start to turn. up untill :36 they were sitting still, now they are rotating to compensate for the different in rotation of the tires. you can also see at :36 that the gear sets on the far right begin to rotate faster than the sets on the left, and then at 58 they meet and the left starts to spin faster. they could definitely have done a better job..
The clutches are locked not moving unless you are in a corner like posi traction, the clutches would not last in a situation shown here.
The clutches aren't transferring torque. They control the planetary gearset to manipulate gear reduction. They don't slip when energized like a posi.
Ring, pinion, simple limited slip. That's all we need. The rest is just added weight, higher cost, and sooner failure. KISS
Are those servo motors actuating the clutches on each end of the differential? I presume that this system is electronically modulated by the ABS sensor system?
OOOOOooooohhhhhhh,....... took about ten minutes of study, but I got it now.
@unnamed15rus : I believe even the Acura RL AWD used this system.
I'd agree that it appears to opperate the wrong way round, but it also looks far more complicated than it needs to be!
It looks like its a clutching LSD running in conjunction with a 'Torsen' type gear-set.
I'm sure if you can vary the clutch loadings while in motion you'll have even more control but how complicated!
more simply more better this one is very complicated its many parts to broke
It looks like it's an open diff with elements of 2 Eaton diffs connected where the axles should be, then just beyond those, a clutch pack for each side. All of that just to make the car more nimble? How much more nimble?
thanks u
Torsen diff is all that’s needed. Add traction control if you like
Looks like the old Viscous Couplings of the '80's
Too much total spinning inertia in the end probably. reduced reliability with twice as much machinery as already in a differential? Accura NSX concept accomplishes this with separate electric drive motors in hybrid addition to the ICE engine. probably many less parts in the drive line that way.
25 nov 2019 1:58 pm est:thanks
Because this ZF system seems to be standard with the rear diff that vectors torque. Audi's is an option with the AWD, Acura's is standard.
The gears are turning faster but the output to the wheel is slower. Less gear movement in the clutch=more direct power transfer.
@NeverWithMindBand a open one puts it on the wheel with the least traction
this can be done with brakes with much less complication and expense
Insanely complicated! Give me a Torsen diff any day. Does the same without all that cost and weight.
It;s basically the same principals as the Honda SH-AWD and SH differentials, with less clever marketing.
munto bom legal mesmo
This is like a ayc differential from a evolution
@xWethewalrusx yeah i was looking at the planetary modules instead of the the joint near the clutches, they were moving correctly, my mistake
Wouldn't it be easier to use wheel hub motors and control the power of each wheel independently by a controller? less weight + less production expenditure?
nice.....witch car has it? and how much?
están al reves
müthiş fevkalade
Could anyone explain why during a turn, in the video, the outer wheel travels more slowly than the inner one?
Eric Sun
I thought the same things too. You would think a sophisticated company like this would not make this simple mistake.
In a 4 - wheel synchronize it makes the back wheel go the opposite direction, so the car is in full turning rotation like a chain belt tank
Eric Sun if you look rely closely you see that it don't. the two outer of the two gears on each side is the ones representative to the wheel speed. i think all this dos is making the torque equal to the grip the tires have. the outer wheel travel further and have more to grip to. so it gives that wheel more power. that way you can put more power to the ground before anything starts to slip and you need ESP and so forth to fix the problem.
+Eric Sun That was my issue too !
Eric Sun i
wait why is the braking (red effect) on the outside wheel?? the wheel outside of the turn should be the one spinning faster right?? am I crazy or do I just not understand this ZF diff thing??
I am glad u can read but if u understood what you just typed then you would know that what you said is the long version of what I said. opposed brake steering has been around for years how do you think the steering on early tanks worked? I work on lots of machines for a living and have seen this set up many times over the years maybe in slightly different configurations but some almost identical to the axle above with slightly different actuators. so explain again how Honda own this old design.
It was on Mitsubishi lancer in 1998 !!!!
Сложно и дорого!
Multiplicador de força
Ok so simple and torsen differential combined .....
Ставим лайк, пусть думают, что написаны умные слова!😉
Well, the diff is very similar to what tanks use, so if weighs like a tank and uses a drive system similar to one, it's a tank :D
The original design has been on Acura SH-AWD cars since 2005! ZF just Stole the idea.. The system is reliable but the maintenance procedures are set by every 15,000miles or every year for changing the diff oil which cost around 80 bucks the gallon (Only needs 1) if you DIY the change.. If not stealership will charge you up to 200 bucks to change the oil diff.. A lot of owners never change it and still works like a charm.
Now there is a car you want to lease, not own. Just imagine how expensive that would be to repair or replace!!!
Nas curvas, a movimentação das engrenagens, está ao contrário.
So there are two sets friction plates inside this differential. How much dose it cost to replace them when they worn out!?!!!
dude the alien music 😑
what the background song is?
Who tells me what the name of the video differential is?
my car has a zf transmission....
a zf 4hp18 .... but i bet thats one they would sooner forget.....
its like each side has its own little transmission in the differential
What is the benefit on this?
Ahhh.... I have watched that for more than 10 times. Wait, how can you write URL?
why when transmitting left turn, for example, the left wheel rotates faster than the right when it is supposed to be the opposite because it has less course than the right. I want to understand please
25 nov 2019 2 pm est: 1:04 front-left-wheel rotate faster than front-right-wheel
The video is wrong, it shows the outside wheel travelling slower than the inner one !?
The flux capacitor allows 2 sun gears of the same size attached to the same planet gears to move at different speeds.
+Jon Snow So basically, the mechanics behind torque vectoring diffs is by reducing gear ratio? Since one axle has higher gear ratio, it is more difficult to turn that axle because it requires more torque, therefore the other axle is able to output more torque because of lower gear ratio? Is that correct?
please can somone tell me what is the name of the software used to do this simulation
shouldn't the outside wheel be spinning more?
essentially what he said...the animation is wrong with the transparent car in the lower right corner. so yes, them turning the car is "wrong" or opposite the animation of the diff
2 clutches on the output? Sounds like it'll wear down quick.
It sounds very expensive, anyway.
mazack00
This is a type of limited slip differential and most of the LSD have some kinds of clutch pack on each side to keep the driveline from slipping
@@2Phast4Rocket ha ha no..this a planetary gear set . looks no sense to me. LSD only have plates ..
I don't understand, where is the extra power coming from? Doesn't this show the outer wheel being geared down which would make it spin slower? Whats the point of the diff then, I must be missing something here.
Ring and pinion. Spider gearset. Planetary gearset. Clutch assembly. The efficiency losses must be stupid, insane complication
I get it,to break into a lower or higher range in turning instead of torque/no torque typical of basic differential....I like it but replace the clutch with hydrostatic conversion w/variable steer input. My question is in RWD only would it be substantive? Try FWD or AWD and you may have something there.
I would think that it would be more relevant for RWD than FWD simply because load transfer is towards the rear when accelerating.
If you use it on an exclusive FWD, all you get is torque steer.
If I were to swap a Duramax diesel into my BMW; could this differential take the torque?
@That Mx-3 Guy We value performance and reliability. Unfortunately they only come in the HD GM trucks. A Duramax diesel mated to an Allison A1000 will give me the ultra high performance and supreme durability I deserve ; while the BMW chassis will give me the driving finesse and social status I crave.
@That Mx-3 Guy The only thing better from a durability standpoint than a Duramax diesel is a Mitsubishi 4G63 gasser.
Seems as though the same effect could be had by simply applying the inside wheels brake..
But does it drift?
I wonder with all that technology, you still have a simple spider geared open diff in the middle.
Why would you need a limited slip diff with the system above?
Inversed graphic ?