OPEN diff vs LSD vs WELDED diff - VISUALLY + In depth EXPLAINED - Version 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2024
- midshipgarage.com/
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OEM Viscous - midshipgarage.com/products/ge...
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The LEGO LSD design I used: • Дифференциал Торсен. И...
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This is version 2 of this video. The previous version was deleted as it had some misleading things in it. I also regret being a bit stubborn when defending the merits of my previous explanation, and although it did have some merit it was ultimately misleading and some parts were outright incorrect. I would like to thank all the commenters for pointing out the mistakes. Although some were rude and aggressive a great number of people was very constructive, mature and polite when pointing out the mistakes in the previous video, and to these people I offer my sincere gratitude. I don't shy away from admitting my mistakes, I see them as an opportunity for growth and work hard to correct them.
The mistakes in the previous video were: 1. Open diff sends more torque to slipping wheel. 2. Welded diff splits torque 50/50
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So let's start with the open differential. This is something you can find in the vast majority of cars on the road today. Especially in non-performance or „normal“ cars. The differential has one purpose. It allows you to take a corner. In other words a differential enables two wheels on the same axle to rotate at different speeds.
So what would happen if we didn't have a differential? Because the two wheels are now physically joined together they are unable to rotate at different speeds. Because of this the wheels have to make up for the difference in speed by skipping, hopping or sliding. You can experience this if you take a real car with a welded differential and try to negotiate it around a parking lot.
Of course this isn't a desirable scenario as it not only wears out your tires faster but it puts a lot of strain on your axles and other drive-train components. On top of this it can make a lot of noise and draw unwanted attention. Obviously none of these issues will be present with a normal open differential.
To better understand the limited slip differential we have to go back to the open differential. If there's one thing you have to remember about the open differential is that torque being sent to the wheels through an open differential will always look for the path of least resistance. So if one wheel is easier to turn or slip that wheel will limit the amount of torque available to the other wheel. If one wheel is on ice and the other is on asphalt and it takes only 15 Nm to break traction on the ice wheel than the open differential will prevent the wheel on asphalt to receive more than 15 Nm as well. Now let's replace the open differential with our limited slip differential. As you can see the wheel with low traction doesn't spin at all and the vehicle takes of immediately. The answer to how the LSD achieves this is in the name itself. Limited slip differential. It limits wheel slip.
So in the same scenario with one wheel on ice the limited slip differential will not allow the slipping wheel to waste the torque potential of the engine. It will not allow the slipping wheel to prevent the wheel with traction from receiveing more torque. So if it takes 15 Nm to break traction on the ice wheel the other wheel will not be limited to 15Nm as well, instead the limited slip differential will bias torrque to that wheel and that wheel will receive more torque. A torque biasing differential can have a biasing ratio as high as 4:1. This means that if it takes 15Nm to break traction on the ice wheel the LSD can bias as much as 60Nm to the wheel on asphalt which is more than enough to get the vehicle moving quickly and without slipping.
The welded differential effectively turns the rear axle into a solid common axle and the entire rear axle behaves as a single unit, which means that the low friction on one wheel becomes irrelevant because 100% of the engine's torque is available to both wheels all of the time.
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00:00 Intro-ish
02:43 Getting unstuck
11:39 FF vs FR vs MR - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Quaife ATB diff - midshipgarage.com/products/quaife-toyota-mr2-turbo-sw20-89-99-a-t-b-helical-lsd-differential-for-e153-transmission?_pos=1&_sid=9f421405d&_ss=r&variant=28536254693481
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Version 2 of this video. Previous version was deleted because it contained some misleading information. Please see description for details.
Nice to see a TH-camr admitting and correcting his errors.
Still one of my favorite channels, but if I need to vent some anger and aggression I know where to go. Haha... gotta love those keyboard warriors!
good good :)
Thanks for taking the time to make a corrected video. It was right thing to do
I think there are RWD cars with low enough torque to be unable to break traction in a turn. What about my 1982 225 CID Dodge W150 when in 2wd mode and fully loaded? what about the 1979 Datsun 210 wagon with 1.4? what about 7 ton capacity dump trucks with 4-53 2 stroke diesels?
I’ve been an automotive master technician for 20 years and this video does a good job of explaining a subject a lot of people have a hard time understanding. Everyone wants to weld the differential until they realize you can only drive it in a straight line to keep it from breaking.
I had a spool in my race car (manual steering box, btw) for a few years and it was awesome on the drag strip but sucked royally everywhere else. Especially with slicks the car seemed to go through agony every time it had to make a sharp turn. The fact that our strip has two 180 degree turns, one on one off, colored my attitude towards them somewhat. I've since got a Detroit locker and it's so much easier on tires and the car. I don't feel like he frame is trying to twist in half anymore.
I daily a diesel Ford pickup with welded diffs in both axles. Unlock the front hubs before you drive anywhere and it’s literally not an issue. Since I’ve welded them that trucks put 20k miles on the odometer.
Can I ask you a question? I have a really nice 2015 XB 5-spd. Actually the last one off production. I thought it came stock with an LSD but from what I've found it's probably and Open diff. Is it really worth it to upgrade? I have a full shop at my house, have done engine rebuilds before and clutches but not a diff yet. I've also read that to really get the benefit you should supercharge or turbo the car, otherwise it's a waste of time and money. Would that be your consensus. It is a box lol, but it's actually got every Toyota/TRD aftermarket part available. I bought it at 40k miles and the original owner had really dialed it in save for engine/trans mods.
You just need slippery tires and a slippery surface OR just dont go round corners
And omg! If it won't start and you have to push it with the front wheels turned you ain't going no wheres.
Who watched the entire original, but is going to watch the entirety of version 2.0 anyways? 🙋♂️
I love you man
If he uploads a version 3.0 I would watch it as well
Probably me.
I will!
Wilco
I absolutely 100000% know that every car enthusiast started as a Lego builder as a kid
Correct
It is only human to make mistakes. Don't feel bad about it, because at least for me your channel has been the most informative car channel of the whole youtube.
I just got this channel recommended and I'm really liking it. I'd recommend watching Engineering Explained too. He does the same kind of thing.
He is definitely getting better and I expect all of his videos will be updated with new videos as he develops his skill as an educator and video producer. What he is doing is hard. Even if he is an accomplished mechanic, making a quality video takes a lot of work and I am grateful he is sticking it out and pushing through the learning curve.
Good on you for redoing this, I was going to suggest reworking of a couple of parts. Really appreciate you being big enough to correct mistakes, it's a great sign of your personal integrity.
That’s true dedication to your channel posting an improved video of an already really well explained video
Not only do I find this video factually correct, but I actually find it easier to understand :) very good job on the improved version!
How do you _find_ something factually correct
@@caioaugusto3138 Haha yeah you're right. I should have written that I can't find any factual faults or something like that...
@@Blockbuster2033 no he isn't and no you shouldn't.
To "find", in the context you have used simply means you are stating your opinion/judgement on the subject, so _finding_ the video to be correct is absolutely correct (in the same way that a judge/jury _finds_ a person to be guilty or not guilty).
If you wanted to be overly pedantic you could say the sentence would read more clearly if you said "I find this video _to be_ factually correct...", but this is a TH-cam comments section, not an English exam; what you have written is competely fine and understandable in its context.
There are far too many people out there willing to "correct" people in areas they know little to nothing about; you do yourself a disservice by simply trusting such comments.
Anyway, time to put the soap box away. Have a good day ✌🏼
It is so nice to see people, that are not afraid of their mistakes, but they go ahead and correct them. We are all here because we like, how you explain thinks and your lego examples are great.
My jaw dropped when i saw an LSD built out of Legos...
The quality of the video production as well as the way a fairly complex vehicle engineering subjected was presented is impressive. I've been enjoying the channel for a while now but this one stands as one of the bests. Congrats for the hard work, really looking forward to the LSD types video and how they work!
Differentials are probably one of my favorite car engineering things to understand, and this video does a good job of explaining it.
I have an RC car that's 4WD, open differentials front and back... until the rear diff stripped out, so I filled it with JB Weld. It's also great for explaining differentials.
your channel is one of the most informative and the videos are all very well made, even if you decide to remake them. keep it up!
I found you channel a week ago. I'm really happy that I did. You really do make awesome and highly detailed videos.
Bro, I've been trying to understand diffs in general for years and this is the easiest video I've seen to really understand what differentials do and the implications of the different types that exist. Thanks so much!!!
One of the best channels for understanding vehicle oriented engineering concepts. Thanks for the content and your dedication.
Using LEGO is very clever . Well explained . Thank you .
This channel lives up to its name without a doubt. Thanks for the clear and concise information you bring forth. Im assuming you're building a 3sgte. The aw11 chassis will really move with this setup as its considerably lighter than the sw20. Good luck with your project 👍
YOU HAVE AMAZING CONTENT! JUST FOUND YOU! YOU ARE SINGLE HANDEDLY SUBSIDIZING EDUCATION FOR ALL
What an amazing explanation of how these work. I just learned about your fantastic content last night looking for information on Horsepower vs Torque. You've got my subscription 😁😁😁😁😁😁
Love your content, and love how you got a sponsor that actually fits with the video.
I watched the first video all the through and thought it was a little oversimplified in some places, but pretty good. This video is a significant improvement, well done.
Wow , im so hyped for engineering part that i can't sleep !
A second video on diffs, a second like!
Thanks for your dedication!
You are a truly gifted teacher. Thanks a ton, man!
Dude I’ve never understood how these work until this video. The legos really helped as well. Go work dude i appreciate the knowledge.
Thank you for explaining the whole thing in the description as well!
Amazing, amazing, amazing work. Thanks for the time you spent putting this all together ❤️
absurdly well explained , wish all videos were as clear and well paced like this one.. a new fan.
I like your videos really much, you provide information that is extremely useful for me as a car enthusiast and a mechanic school student
Another great video man! I'll watch V2 in a bit as I'm supposed to be "working" right now. 😂 I'm going to refer to my open diff as an UNlimited Slip Differential from now on so it sounds cooler. 🤣
man you are so in depth i love it!
I know this video is a little old but just came across it and absolutely love it. I have always struggled to understand this, thanks.
There is one element you missed when explaining the welded Differential during corner exit. With the Weight Bias shifting to the rear wheels, the traction is less on the front than both of the rear wheels so the traction can cause the Front Wheels to be the ones to slip, not the inside rear. As such the car will now understeer drasticly.
Happens on poorly designed go karts. It's called "plowing". Happens because of a solid axle rear end, and a poorly designed steering setup. In some cases you can't get it to stop in suspension applications. So that really makes sense how the weight distribution would make such a thing happen. On a kart with no suspension it's easy to fix. But when you add suspension, it gets to be a headache.
@@derucktorez2260 I used to race 250 gearbox karts (or shifter karts as they say in the USA!). They were set up to lift the inside rear wheel on corner entry to get the kart turned in, then drive out of the corner on the throttle with a subtle drift. Not too much drift or we'd lose too much speed. It was a bit of an art to balance them but at least we had gears to help, unlike the direct drive karts where momentum was king. Good fun though!
Great video. Explaining torque biasing geared diffs Vs clutch plated diffs with ramps Vs viscous diffs Vs e-diffs Vs pump driven diffs will be even more difficult!
Thanks for the vid. I was always hazy on this but now I get it perfectly.
Awesome! Thank you so much for clarifying all of that! Always love your videos and all the research and work that goes into them.
Easily the best explanation i have seen on this. This should get you some subscriptions. You got mine!
This guy is the king of explanations. Never have I been taught anything as clearly as this.
Weight transfer is not necessarily in the opposite direction of movement, but the oposite direction of acceleration. If you are moving forward but press the breaks, the weight transfer is forwards because the acceleration is backward. Same as in a turn. The cars acceleration is toward the center, thus the weigh transfer is to the outside of the turn, which is actually perpendicular to the direction of movement
Very impressive videos. I subscribed just after watching 2 or 3 of them. Very informative, keep it up... 💯
Wow, so much effort into explaining a topic. Keep I up man!!
Well done for your clear explanations that get the basic principles across in an easy to understand manner.
I've only owned one car with an LSD (Ford Capri 2.8 Inj. Special). It was very useful in wet conditions where you could 'feel' it 'clutch up' mid bend.
Not quite as helpful in heavy snow/ice conditions.
Neverthess, I managed to drive it through a dire winter situation where modern FWD cars were giving up - thereby causing additional mayhem by blocking the road.
Finally found a helpful and good video for differentials
Thank you for this excellent video! Love the Lego bits; never underestimate the instructional value of toys. I'll be upgrading my old Maverick to LSD this week, from 2.79 open to 3.25 w/ trac lok. I'm extra stoked after watching this!
WHOA!! Is it Christmas today?? D4A on a Friday?? WHOOHOO!!! Awesome video as usual, D4A! Extremely well explained and understandable.
Loving your videos, they're helping me understand vehicles on a new level, so much more I understand now when I ride my motorcycle or fixing the odd thing. One thing I was looking for was cc explained, have you done a video on that? If not, I'd love to understand that more...thanks for your good teaching!! 👍🏻
Glad to hear that, thanks for watching. Cc? You mean displacement?
Another great video, I really want a LSD now, but I want some track time with the open diff first then to change it so i can feel the change and improvement 👍👍
Very good explanation, loved the lego car :)
Can you do a video about suspension geometry? "roll center", "rake", "king pin axis"etc...? Like showing the consequences of changing wheel offset
You know, I don’t do any racing or anything, but I do work with heavy equipment and this explains the characteristics of my equipment vs my trucks. Apparently my loader has a LSD, and when under a load like digging, they will all turn without needing to lock the diff. So this actually helps me understand certain things now and I can take better care of my stuff! Thanks!
This is more than just a comment for the algorithm. This is a comment to say WOW. This was such a fantastic presentation on differentials. Really top grade video, sir 🙏
Lego: I went to a school, which was like a car economic school, with also a lot of technical theory. Half of the students had a technical background and the other half was economical, so the first period the economic lessons were easy for the economic guys and the technical classes for the technical guys. Me, economical and a Lego Technics kid was good in both, because of Lego. I immediately understood steering cinstructions, differentials, the lot.
Thank you, old boy. I didn't catch the mistakes in the original, which would suggest that I don't quite know everything. What a dreadful shock this has been. Anyway, onward and upward. ;-)
Liking and posting for the Al Gore Rhythm! Staying for the great info!
Excellent explanations!
Huge respect for taking feedback! Awesome video. This is now probably the best video out there for introduction to differentials!
Great explanation! I also like how the engine in the diagram is the Yamaha V6 in the 1st/2nd Gen Taurus SHO! I thought the intake manifold looked familiar so I zoomed in and saw it.
thank you for all your content
brilliant explanation of all three diffs...👏👏
Food for thought on a year old video, I had lofi music playing in the background while watching this and it made it like twice as good. background music might do this channel wonders
“In reality there are no such RWD platforms with such low torque you can’t break traction”
Me: looks out window at friends Ford falocn with a claimed output of 70 HP 😂
I mean if you launch it its gonna slip from acceleration i think
@@Crispy656forever Is that what some call "full send"😂
too many negatives in this sentence, cannot comprehend meaning
Was thinking the same with my isuzu pickup, boasting an absolute monster of a 2l 8valve na diesel, producing 62hp and 125nm... When new nearly 40years ago :D but to be fair it does brake loose for a second, with an empty bed, from a stop. But as tested ONCE, the whole car made such immense noises of suffering that I will never do it again.
I don't drive to places like others, but accelerate to them, no matter the distance.
What model is that? Must be some kind of economy model from the 70s i assume.
Thanks for the refresher course! Noteworthy, some Ariel Atom owners complained about the Quaife more than the Torsen while Z3 Coupe owners prefered the Quaife...
I have driven the Torsen only versions of both cars, a comparison would be welcome! You really explain things so well!
For cars equipped with an ABS, an open differential is enough since the ABS equipment can be used to restrict the movement of the slipping wheel thus increasing the torque sent to the other wheel.
All ABS does is limit breaking force. Not all systems limit each wheel independently, and none of this controls torque unless you're both breaking and powering trough a corner. Traction control systems actually do modulate breaking on each wheel to control traction in that scenario, but still don't modulate torque sent to each wheel. The only systems that actively control wheel torque are LSDs and they can be electronically controlled. This video explains why they exist, and they're made to do the thing they do. They're not snake oil.
@@PaulSpadesif traction control notices that one wheel is free spinning (such as on ice like in the video) and applies brakes to just that one wheel, then all the engines torque will go to the wheel with good traction through an open dif, but if ur gonna do all that then u may aswell just have an lsd
It deserves respect, that you improve your videos, when you find out some sort of mistakes and other incorrect information...
Thank you :)
As usual, you are nothing less than impressive. Really, the words aren’t enough. Thank you sir
Great video and awesome way to demonstrate different diffs
Excellent video, entertaining and highly effective explanations. Thank you, subscribed!
For offroading, many offroad vehicles have a system that locks the differentials letting you have all the advantages of open diffs and the traction of welded diffs when you need to be in a loose surface.
I fixed super pack limited slip deferential
I reached location off road that i wasn't able to reach on my stock open deferential..
Stock 4.77 defrential ratio + super pack L.S.D made is a relentles combination!!💪
my 2000 nissan pathfinder now is a tank when it comes to off road
Thank you for your golden content👑
Not gonna lie i will chose to watch your vlogs & enjoy it 10000 time better than any action movie out there!!
In the name off all petrol heads out there.. Leader!! keep driving us 4 answers 👑
Well done. I with I could give this video ten likes. Very good explanations on each type. Thank you for entertaining and sharing.
This is the BEST explanation of LSD i've seen. it eluded me for so long lol
This was a great video! Would love to see how the LSD fits in with something like the subaru front engine - symetrical all wheel drive!
"Spirited driving " 😉 I'm using that.
Loved my Meccano (pre Lego old iron), luv ur Lego demos.
I always know howi t works but you explained it very good
perfect video, thank you!
Damn! This is great information! Thank you!
Best explanation ever congratulations 👏👏👏👏
HI, thank you for this comparison, found it helpful, simple and educating.
Great stuff. Love the lego explanation
educational af goodjob bro
super clear, I remember when I was twenty it got some time to solve the clue
unfortunately today it's all demanded to electronic and torque vectoring systems (mostly)
that's also why today Toyota Yaris GR got so much attention
(Quaife is today benchmark of torsen (torquesensing) type LSD differential, good choice)
THANK YOU!!!!
I've been trying to learn in depth of tuning in BeamNG and this video is very helpful!
I put the Quaife on my '13 Focus ST. You'll be a happy driver.
Wow this is such a perfectly explained video
Thank you this made it so much more simple to understand with the lego car
Nice video !! Clear to understand and well speak
Can u make a comparison video on front engine FWD and Rear engine RWD cars, even though both are pole apart ,share some common aspects like packaging efficiency, large cargo and passenger area, less drive train component so would like to know about their handling characteristics regards to passenger vehicles.
Excellent video! Very good and easy explanation. Thank you!
Hey dude (what's your name anyway?), I'm an automotive teacher and it was always hard to draw a gear type LSD on the board for students to redraw it into their books. The way you assembled it using a Lego is simply genious. You've actually helped me. I just installed a RacingDiffs LSD retrofit kit to my car today (that's why this video caught my attention) and in combination with adjustable x-drive it is simply awesome. And so damn quick it's sometimes hard to keep up with.
Excellently explained thank you very much👍😀
I was a truck driver for many years, and most vehicles I'd ever driven (truck or car) on unsealed roads were rear-wheel drive. Therefore, I got used to how those types of vehicles reacted on said roads.
In the 90s, I started working for a company that made urgent deliveries to coal mines West of where I lived. One day I was in a small, front-wheel drive car delivering some small, yet extremely urgent parts to a mine, along a loose gravel haul road. The haul road was wide. Probably about 50 metres (approx 150 feet) I guess. I was tooling along in this little car at about 120kmh and came to a long, sweeping bend. As I entered I backed off a little and the car stopped following the bend and decided to start skating across the gravel. Now, in a rear-wheel drive vehicle that wouldn't happen due to the inertia of the rear, and if it did, you just give it time to correct before adding any 'gas'. So, I stayed off the gas and the car kept sliding along. I then remembered some side comment I'd heard from a bloke who I knew who played with FWD cars. "If you back off too much, they just slide, so you need to feather the power as you corner..." So I gave it some power and it started to pull itself around the bend. I used the whole arc of the bend, and thank the gods there wasn't a haul truck coming down that side, but I got it back on line. Lesson learned.
Outstanding information, thanks.
Have you done front engine awd by chance? Would love to see one, as it pertains to my car. Looking to add LSDs to my car possibly, would love to see some knowledgeable input on the subject. Been a huge fan of cars since childhood, and love your videos for the technical knowledge. New to having a car that I actually want to upgrade, and new to having money to do it. Also really excited to read the description and comments and finding out you actually corrected yourself. Lots of respect.
Amazing job
O wow, good job, you put thought into it
I just love the detail about the most simple things. Have you heard of the Torsen differential? I'm curious to know how it would do in an off-road environment.
The Torsen diff is a torque biasing diff. Same as the Quaife. It'll work fine until one wheel loses grip completely.
Where were you in my physics class in highschool. Love your videos!
Mad automotive and Lego engineering skills.
My little half liter Suzuki Carry truck has 4wd and Limited Slip Differential. Love my truck.
Very well made and informative video.