my girlfriend was a ballerina and started training at age 4 . Her whole life was ballet. By 16 she was part of the national company but got fired after a few years because they said her hip rotation was not enough. it broke her heart. all she knew was ballet.
I had the same with a dear colleague of mine. She was cut out of the company at age 18 after dedicating her whole life to the national ballet, because she grew 2cm too tall. As a result she started eating a lot to refrain from the ideal ballet body she had always so carefully contained and is super traumatized. I encouraged her a few years ago to slowly give it a chance again because the love for ballet is still there. But that she should focus on enjoying it instead of the harsh reality of the professional ballet world
@@nylapierce1719agreed. I mean, the aesthetic is there for a reason and this is why Vaganova is so strict about what they look for when they're kids. They also look at the parents to see what they might develop into as well. But there have been companies taking all sorts of body types for decades. Letting the training and passion go because one company director doesn't want you is silly.
Oh my God, the exact same thing happened to me. Except that I started training at 2. I know exactly how she felt 😢. Ballet was everything to me as well, I adore it till this day but I'm still so heartbroken that I didn't get the chance to pursuit the thing that I love the most for the rest of my life
That hyper extended knee and foot right at the beginning, suggests a genetic hyper mobility disorder, and some areas of dance are starting to acknowledge that they have celebrated and forced hyper mobility to the point of endangering the dancers’ long term health and well-being.
That would be ehlers danlos syndrome, which can become incredibly painful and crippling as you age. That much dancing would only speed up the natural deterioration of what cartilage they had in their joints, leaving bones to rub directly together and joints to dislocate more easily.
It requires a hyper mobility in the joint itself, which is now evaluated by medical doctors as a potentially very serious health condition. If it is systemic it can lead to heart conditions, internal organ issues, later in life loss of mobility and more. I have several friends who discovered later in life that they have this syndrome. All were praised for flexibility when young.Two are not living life aided by wheelchairs and one has hands that must be bandaged so those joints don slip when she uses them to walk with a cane. Ehlers-Danlos is a genetic syndrome. The dance world is starting to understand that it exists. @@v.britton4445
Yeah, I have that hypermobility and my teachers actually trained me out of locking back because they realized how dangerous it can actually be to your body’s health down the line… definitely thankful to them for that!
My parents were told when I was a hopeful young ballet studentI didn't have a "ballet body." Long torso, short legs, short arms, only a medium arch and missing a lot of the ideal qualities she mentions here. Thankfully that means I have the perfect figure skater body and that's worked out well for me.
Okay so I'm doing ballet. I have good feet arches. I think I have a little bit of hypertension but I don't really use it. I don't have that much turnout. I have a long next and really sloppy shoulders which the woman in the video said it was good. I have a slightly big head. And my legs are a bit short and my arms are more short. So I honestly don't think I'll get accepted anywhere and it's too late to change to figure skating. Okay so I don't know if you know Anna McNulty she's a contorsionist. Okay so when she grabs her feet and put it right next to her head her leg only reaches a little bit above her head. Okay so that would be my leg proportion I think. With the arms since my shoulders are really dropped if I keep them down then they look longer than they actually are but when I put them in fifth above my head then they look like baby arms. And my height is 162 (5,4) so I'm not sure if that's tall enough. What do you think about it. Do I have your same body type? Is my physique more appropriate for another sport?
As a teen I was an aspiring ballerina dancing 4+ hours a day, 7 days a week, but being told that my “head is too big” and “frame is too large” to ever be a ballerina, basically nerfed my self confidence for years, resulting in body dysmorphia, really horrible insecurities that I’m still trying to overcome, and an extremely unhealthy relationship with food that I’ve finally begun to fix over 10 years later. For this reason I won’t be encouraging my kids to pursue ballet. It’s impossible to protect dancers from people with such points of view and to me there are other artistic ways to enjoy physical activity and creative outlet.
I was not as dedicated a ballet student as you but loved it and wanted to continue at the age of 13. I had a similar experience related to body type criticism and suffered the same long-term body dysmorphia and eating disorder behavior. Upon hearing my teacher’s assessment, I quit my ballet studies. I so wish someone had introduced me soon after to the fun and engaging world of ballroom dancing. I didn’t discover it until I was nearly 60 years old and found that it came easily to me and offered me much joy. You are absolutely right: there are many other ways to enjoy the use of our bodies and our artistic expression than trying to meet the demanding and unrealistic standards of the ballet art world.😊
In ex Soviet countries they say that to 4 year olds. We (aspiring ballerinas and their families) see it as them saving us trouble. I live in Canada now where the mentality is the complete opposite. My six year old tried synchronized swimming. Her team had a girl with a Down Syndrome and another one who was obese. It was wonderful to see how every child was welcome and how everyone was unique. My mum saw it as a complete waste of my time and money as such a team would never "achieve" anything. She can't fathom that these 6-10 year olds are just having fun and for me that's better than being glued to screens. Now my daughter dances in a "competitive" team. It is still a very amateur level and their meets are only once a week which I think is appropriate for a hobby for such age but I have to explain it over and over to my mum because to her you either aspire to be Olympian or why bother.
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@@vlatstrapes3931 Yes, but the size of one's head or frame is neither a flaw nor a mistake. The instructor was expressing only an opinion and one unrelated to ability to dance. It was a reflection of standards set and maintained by some, but not all, players in the performing arts community. Those standards are not set in stone, and there are always outliers. It was not his or her job to try to anticipate the student's acceptance by others--especially if the remarks about body type were not solicited by the student.
@@alabama.worley Not as bad as I was. Every day it gets a little better. I used to be around 150 lbs overweight, now I've lost around 100 lbs, and I can run without getting tired which is a dream come true. It still is hard but compared with before, I feel like I got so extremely lucky to escape from that hell.
Something she misses here is a specific height of 5’2” to 5’6” (a little taller in certain companies). And in order to be accepted to Russian schools, you need a perfect turn out at the hips, which is constrained by bone structure (many prima ballerinas don’t have this in America). People often assume I’m a ballet dancer. I’m not. But my mother was and I inherited the right body type and “look.” It’s a pretty rare thing.
You have an antiquated view of ballet. There are highly successful dancers in major companies who are under five feet tall to over six feet tall. NYCBallet alone has several women who are 5'10". Maria Kochetkova is barely five feet tall. Talent is not dependent on height. Very few people have "perfect" turnout. The most important attribute of any dancer is the desire to dance. If you really have that, it doesn't matter what some no name teacher thinks.
@@shizukagozen777 she means like survival of the fittest. those with the right “genes” and body type are going to be selected more in traditional ways of practicing ballet. so she’s making sense, but there’s strange seemingly elitist amount of ego there… such an outdated perspective
@@simbahunter8894Actually, here in the USA they prefer short dancers (5’2”-ish). 5’6” is considered too tall. Now, if you’re in Russia or Eastern Europe they prefer ballerinas 5’6” and taller. Trust me, I’ve been dancing ballet for a long time and companies ALWAYS choose the shortest ballet dancers for the big roles. Part of this reason is also that male dancers in the USA are much shorter than their European counterparts. So when they do a pas de deaux, it won’t look good unless the female ballerina is significantly shorter than the male. The males in the US are usually 5’6” to 5’8” and that is SHORT.
I am so glad we’re talking about this. This is the kind of thing that gets described as “technique.” And, more toxically imo, this is the kind of thing that ballet dancers judge each other for.
Technique is not natural ability, it is hard work and dedication. It is obvious who the losers are when they don't want to work hard on their technique and then get mad at being judged for their poor results. Don't want to work hard? Don't do ballet. Ballet done poorly will only destroy your body.
You forgot to mention the most obvious one - small pelvis / narrow hips ( I wrote both because some people argue about what and where the "hips" actually are )
And small chest. More than a few very talented ballet dancers never reach their potential as performers because major companies won't accept women with full breasts (not even talking large, just...prominent, like "normal" women, lol).
Thank you for explaining the body type that is SUPPOSED to be indicative of greater artistic (ballet) abilities. I am glad to know this, and I am thrilled that people who don’t have “the ideal” body are destroying this notion every day all over the world.😊
Usually they aren’t far off from it, though. They are still very slim, have longer legs than most people, and very fit. Only if you are super duper picky would you say they deviate that much.
@@decimusvitaeExactly, most of the dancers in the top tier ballet companies do have that body type, or very close. It isn't something that is being destroyed, and it does serve functional purposes in some ways. Smaller, less prestigious, or more contemporary companies deviate from those standards more and are often where great technical dancers who don't fit the ideal body type go.
@@icantbebotheredwithnames That’s so rude of you. Anyone can do ballet, this cliché of doing a sport associated to a physique is so outdated and close minded.
I am Russian, and i am a dancer. Not a ballet dancer though. As a child and teen i was told i had all the ideal proportions for a ballet dancer. I thought about it but then i went to an audition and they lectured me about my chest size which was a bit bigger than average. I had always been insecure about it. So i decided to move on and find my passion in dance elsewhere. I went to hip hop, jazz and pop dancing where i was allowed to exist as i am. I miss dancing. Sadly i cannot dance much after surgeries but i hope to one day again. I think these standards for ballerinas are a bit much and can be harmful especially to young growing girls.
Tbh I always was under the impression that Svetlana Zakharova was THE ideal ballet body with the long lines, super arched foot etc. At least that’s what my teacher told me as a kid lol (I only took classes a year- all the grace of a bag of potatoes) Maria who is shown actually is known for having a relatively long upper body. She’s still a lovely and very technical dancer. Interestingly it’s said here that they look for people with natural turnout natural who find it easy, but Maria herself has said she really struggled a lot with it in her younger years.
Zakharova is something of an acquired taste for a lot of ballet fans In the wrong costume her disproportionately long back does her no favors visually. But she does have great feet and a strong technique. Chacon à son goût!
Exactly what I came to say. Her arms also don’t bend “the right way”. I’ve been a lot of criticism on her legs on Russian forums too. Zakhrova and Lopatkina were and still are the gold standard.
I wish this was explained to young girls so they wouldn't take it personally. While weight can go up or down, one has no control over neck structure or knees that only slightly hyper extend.
If I had a daughter I would never put her in ballet, the environment is quite toxic and they pretty much all struggle with eating disorders at one point or another
I’m too old to be told this now- but when I was a younger woman I often got asked if I was a ballet dancer. Hearing these things makes me see why now. Turned out hips, the shoulders, relatively thin, and the small head! I always hated my small head.
Me too, was thinking same!! Thin, long torso, hyper-extended legs/knees, long neck/sloped shoulders, good turnout, and strong C arch/point. What I was missing was the flexibility. And maybe height. Oh well, love to dance, don't need to be a pro!
I had all ballerina features except the shoulders (mine are square) and I am too tall. And yes I also hate my head being so small. With flat dull hair on it 😂😂
I took ballet from age 4 to 10, but I began to notice I was growing faster than the other girls as I approached my 11th birthday. I had long legs and long arms and a strong arch in my feet, but was also starting to develop full breasts. I took after my grandmother of Dutch ancestry and she was 5'9" tall. I grew to be 5'8" tall. I realized back then that any idea of continuing ballet seriously wasn't realistic. As I matured, my strong jawline and high cheekbones became more apparent, too. I didn't know until now that those qualities and square shoulders wouldn't have helped me out, either. And I've never been thin! But I loved ballet. 😢
You would have been a perfect swimmer though! I have broad shoulders and am 5’6 and absolutely love swimming because even though if you’re taller you have a slight advantage, it’s more skill based and there’s no “set” body type expectations.
@@LilacMorelli Swimmers are often very tall, at least Olympic level. They have very long arms, long torsos, and short legs. If you look at Michael Phelps, his body is very unusual, but he is perfect for swimming, which is why he has been so incredibly successful. He fits the characteristics of Marfan Syndrome too actually, and many people believe he has the condition. It has been reported that he has his heart monitored regularly, and heart problems can be a complication of marfans. Phelps is 6'4" with an extremely long torso, very long arms with a "wingspan of 6'7" which is 3" longer than it should be, deep chest and his legs are very short for his height. The average male Olympic swimmer is 6'2 and the average woman Olympic swimmer is 5'9". Of course there are exceptions. I love swimming, but at just under 5'6, I would have been at a disadvantage at the higher levels. I have a cousin who is very into swimming and competes at a high level. He is 6"5. There is a famous woman Olympic swimmer, Janet Evans, who is 5'6. When you say swimming is skill-based, that is very true, but a taller swimmer has a natural advantage in skill, similar to basketball players. It's easier to make a basket when you can throw the ball over people's heads, lol. That's why most basketball players are so incredibly tall, with of course a few exceptions. I think it's hard for people to accept that certain body types are just at a big advantage for certain sports. It's unfair, but it's just the way it is. Everyone doesn't have Michael Phelp's body and very very few can overcome his incredible natural advantages and skills when he's swimming at the top of his game.
Actually Maria Khoreva doesn't have the perfect dancer body. Her torso is long compared to her legs. Same was true for Vishneva. But they are both such outsize talents I guess this "shortcoming" was overlooked.
Actually Maria Khoreva's extremely hyperextended knees are not considered "ideal", snd she's a bit too thin, at least in these photos. However she's a soloist because she's a charming and musical performer. (She also speaks perfect English.) The Maryinsky Ballet corps is full of people with "perfect" bodies. You can have an ideal body but so so talent.
She DANCES beautifully, I believe that's why she so famous, Plisetskaya didn't have extensions like her either, she didn't need that to be named Prima Ballerina Absoluta
My daughter is 12 and has been in pre-professional training since she was 8. She hasn’t experienced this and I hope she won’t for a long time. The studio she dances at is very aware of the different body types and and the “ideal” type doesn’t apply to them. During conferences her first year I was told by one of the teachers that this is the age they start to see body image issues. They invited a homeopathic doctor to talk about the importance of nutrition and how they should be eating more calories when they are dancing. I pray this stays a safe place for all these kids.
This is also pretty specific to the Russian style of ballet which has also become the typical “ideal” here in the US. But it isn’t the case in all countries. Growing up I knew I didn’t have that typical “ideal” body because my feet were flatter and I’m naturally very muscular with rounder/bulkier muscles…. But then I had a dance teacher from Brazil who was a professional dancer there and had trained in Cuba as well who told me I had the perfect body for ballet. That made me realize that these idealized physiques are only based around one culture’s decision about what was ideal and not what is necessarily ACTUALLY ideal for being able to perform the techniques well.
as a male dancer I'd I'd like to debunker theory I hear a LOT which is that we only like partnering with the thin ballerinas THIS IS NOT TRUE WE PREFER TO HAVE A BALLERINA WHO IS STRONG AND CAN HELP US BY KEEPING THEMSELVES IN CHECK TOO and that DOESN'T MEAN we hate the ballerinas if they have a certain body type and we always want them to feel good about themselves we care about the ballerinas we do more than just dance with them we hang out with and learn alongside them we work together not against each other
I really hope people begin to see skill over body type. I only really got into dance as an adult. I’m tall and plus size. I don’t look like a dancer. I’m even a retired rugby player. I’m currently training to compete nationally in adapted ballroom.
I always thought everyone’s ideal shape is different but tends to be similar due to the molding of the exercises and it’s different simply because the bodies are predetermined by genetics. It’s better to judge on muscle size/frame -complex ratios rather than trying to graft ideals from one person on to the other.
It isn't molding due to exercises. It's that the ones who get to the very top have built-in natural advantages. So as dancers drop off as the dancing becomes more elite, the more you will see specific body types with the natural advantages. It's the same with many sports, basketball being a big one in terms of height and hand size. If you've ever noticed, basketball players have disproportionately big hands, even for their tall bodies, and it is a huge advantage. Also there's a difference between an asthetic and a physical advantage. In the late 90's, women's gymnastics became very toxic with the waif look favored by the Karolis. The Karolis insisted upon starving their gymnasts and were perhaps convinced that thinner gymnasts were better gymnasts. We now know that this is not true, especially when considering style. A 5 ft gymnast who is extremely tiny with long arms and legs will naturally do better in the "graceful" elements of gymnastics that the Karolis preferred. What we have in today's gymnastics however is a different type of sport that is centered on power and strength. For that you need a powerful, but compact body with large muscles, thicker legs, shorter arms and carrying more weight to propel them. It's a completely different (and healthier) asthetic in today's women's gymnastics, and that asthetic changed when the sport itself changed and became more about strength and not as much about grace. If ballet changed in some fundamental way, which it may do with some schools admitting different body types with different skill-sets, then we will see a shift away from the current ashetic as well.
I love my little studio where everyone is welcomed to dance, no matter age, skill, or body type. I think barring people from pursuing a career based on their natural physical traits is ridiculous, and I'm glad she talks about professional ballerinas who don't fit all these criteria! The one thing I will say is that it can be helpful to have a certain style of body that matches a certain style of dance. My hips are naturally turned in (my kneecaps almost touch if I stand with my feet together parallel) and it does definitely get in the way of some things I try to do.( Plies are not my friends.) So I can at least see why they have an ideal body, even if I don't agree with making selections purely based on it
No one should be barred from pursuing a hobby, but not every studio is geared toward that. Studios that train dancers for a career should ABSOLUTELY honestly bar career focused dancers who do not have a possibility in the career because of certain attributes of their physique. It’s ridiculous and dishonest otherwise.
I did ballet / lyrical for about 12 years with a couple breaks in between, and never once did anyone tell me I couldn’t do ballet because of my body type… guess it’s because I never got super far into the “elite” groups lol. I did, however, find out that it’s much easier and less damaging to be on pointe if you have a high arch and your second toes aren’t longer than your big toes 😂 mine are… and I also don’t have high arches. My feet look pretty flat when I’m standing, but I can still go up on demi-pointe quite easily. I loved ballet because it felt natural to me (I was always flexible), and I felt graceful and happy when I danced. I miss that structure and outlet sometimes.
It's funny, people have often said I look like a ballerina but I fulfill barely any criteria. I have a large head and narrow but VERY square shoulders. I can do a pretty good turnout at the hips and have long limbs but that's about it. I'm glad this artform gets a bit more inclusive though although there's always gonna be pinheads
@@claireschweizer4765 oh no I apologize in this case I meant pinhead as "small brain" as in their head is tiny because they have tiny brain volume (which is not in actuality scientifically correct because brain size isn't usually an indicator for processing ability and critical thinking, it was a genuine joke), nothing wrong with having a smaller head of course. Or a bigger head for that matter. I think artistic expression - including ballet - is for everyone as long as health supports it
The current Zakharova walking stick body is dominant in Vaganovka because Tsiskaridze favours it, and it will likely last as least as long as his tenure. I personally much prefer more naturally proportioned dancers, like Osipova or Vishneva.
I love all three ballerinas. But, Zakharova does have the best line. Vishneva has the incredible back flexibility and more drama. Osipova has technically the best turns and jumps.
This was kind of a confidence boost for me. Started dance pretty late at 12 and had big ambitions. In the end training never got intensive enough to go professional but I always felt pretty big in dance class. I have a broad back and am very square in the upper body and rather sporty and muscly than thin but interestingly I have all of the physical aspects you mentioned. I know they are toxic and so discriminating. But for me who always felt to "fat" for the balerina body to find out that I do have the balerina body and my dedication kind of paid out here ( turnout and arches were not natural to me) makes me unexpectedly happy.
My only mistake was not going to a ballet school or even a different studio for training in my childhood/teen years but I did get my degree in dance and teach ballet now! A lot of hidden talent just at the wrong institution. Sad because a lot of studios are just in it for the money 😞
It's absolutely insane how physically unsuited I am for ballet. I have literally the opposite of every feature she mentioned. I even have a longer second toe.
My mum used to do ballet when she was young, she was told she would never be accepted as a professional dancer because her rib cage was too big. She said she cried for weeks when she eventually had to quit, all she wanted to do was dance.
Just like there are better body types for different sports. Just because you don't have it, it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it.
Beautifully said. Unfortunately most people nowadays buy into the lie that everyone can do everything. Lol. Nope. And we aren't all meant to do everything.
its funny because masha khoreva has extremely short legs and shoulders too... but thats still irrelevant to her as a professional dancer because of all other things that (anatomically) helped her to develop her skills (her natural flexibility, her arches, etc...) + her full dedication to ballet..... btw shes an incredible artist ❤
I did ballet (for fun) and meet most of this criteria, except I have sharply defined shoulders. Sloped shoulders are really pretty and elegant, so I see the appeal in a ballerina with this feature.
When I was younger I did ballet and I had all of this proportions of body because I had problems with food and eating. I was on a studio who was body positive and most of the classmates I had were kinda of a plus size, I was kinda ignored because I was very shy and learning was super hard on my part (I learn very slow, it's in my psychiatric record). Most of the other girls were amazing dancers until this days, like 5-8 years later. I'm still trying to be better, but my body changed a lot because I'm now an adult, also my body type is really different because I was underweight when I was like 15-17, now I have more hips and kinda big thights. I'm still hyperextended and flexible, but I think... If I was more into ballet academias instead of my actual group, I'd be unhealthy but still with that type of body. (BTW) Idk, I just wanted to say it. I don't know if this can be interpreted as me trying to look skinnier, I'm not, I know I'm healthier rn, and I kinda like my body now. I just wanted to share something in my mind
I’m pretty short with disproportionally large feet (even at a young age) and I still remember my teacher yelling at me to point my toes during petit allegros. At that age, I couldn’t jump higher than the length of my feet so you can imagine my problem. Eventually overcame it but it definitely made me realize pretty early on that I didn’t have the ideal body for ballet 😂
I have an actress face (good for film, not so much stage if I am too low in weight) BECAUSE having pronounced features can make ballerinas look gaunt or sickly, especially because they have to meet underweight weight requirements, those who lose weight in their face will have that effect dramatized by lighting on stage. Having a child like/chubby face helps avoid this problem. Though, I think we are well past the need for pedophilic beauty standards. Especially in ballet.
I haven’t watched a lot of this video and I gotta tell you, you can dance in any body. Ballet is for everyone, and actually your body might change because you do ballet! But really; there is no perfect mold, the perfect mold is you.
@@go_ratio fact: people whose joints are naturally hyper extended, are at greater risk of injury, than those without this trait. Ballet training is not harmful to any body type when properly instructed.
@@claireschweizer4765 no it isn't. I have a congenital spine disorder that was undiagnosed throughout my life until recently when I found out why I've suffered pain my whole life. I was ignored as a child when I said my back hurt. Teachers thought I just pulled a muscle or whatever. In fact, I had a serious deformity that has now led to nerve damage and disc ruptures. Why? Because of that mentality that we must work hard and ignore pain that is common in ballet and gymnastics, as well as in some other sports and even in just general physical education. Ballet would have crippled me had I been forced into those poses as a child.
I would be torn apart. I have long legs but a short torso and normal arms a short neck. My legs and feet are alright. My mother did ballet up until 17. She was doing an audition and got into a fight with her male partner and he purposefully dropped her and my moms hip popped out of place and she was told that her injury would hinder her dancing, so she stopped dancing and joined the military instead.
These occupational restrictions are only the norm because somebody that doesn't fit their rigid appearances hasn't come along and destroyed those ideals yet. I feel like true art is going against the norms created by people long dead. What I'm saying is, don't give up on something you're passionate about because you don't look like a flamingo❤
False. Ballet is an art form predicated upon creating an almost non-human and sylph-like feminine creature on stage. These aesthetics are good and I'm glad companies in Russia at least are adhering to them. It's beautiful to behold, in a very different way to companies with all sorts of body types.
But would someone outside of these body types be able to succeed in all of the movements? For example in gymnastics not every woman can do a side split because if you have wide hips they get in the way and of course you can't train away bone structure. The same way a ballerina wouldn't make a good boxer because no matter how much they bulked up they would still be too delicate
I can understand why smooth features look good on stage, the lighting would definitely play a role, those with noticeable cheekbones like Benedict Cumberbatch would have a slight cast upon their face that may look odd depending on the positioning of the lighting which usually would be a permanent fix while with film you can adjust the lighting to give any illusion you desire.
Remember, your worth is not tied to achieving any one dream or any one body type. I had to give up the dream career I worked for years to achieve due to a severe chronic illness. It's okay to not be cut out for something. God has a plan for you ♥
There are many forms of dance for those who are not the " right" body type. The head of the StLouis Civic Ballet said I would never be a dancer. Proved him wrong. True, I was never a " ballerina " , but danced professionally for 5 years [ supporting myself entirely by performing - no side jobs] and had a wonderful rewarding and fun time!! Practice and persevere and dont listen to Naysayers!!!!!!!
Both my cousins were ballerinas. They both had foot surgery before 18 and had ED. I love ballet. Thank you for educating us on both sides of a very beautiful craft.
They have kinda ideal body type yeah but usually no one is perfectly matching it of course and usually on stage and in her instagram maria appears long legged but she actually aren’t 🤷🏽♀️ So you can also train to look good for stage
I can imagine what Sara Mearns go through. We can be so hard on people for how they look, they don't choose it. During the 90s the Paris Opera Ballet had a lot of square big shoulder danse etoiles like Sara Mearns.
Back in the day NBS would measure the ratio of hip to knee, knee to ankle, also waist to hip to shoulder to gauge how your body would mature. They also wanted to see how your parents bodies looked.
I don't like the over arched foot. Not sure when that became the ideal. The goal should be to pull that heal back and create a gorgeous straight line. It's gotten to the point the feet look like hooks and it's not pretty imo.
iwas watching an interview with nikolai ciskaridze ( orincipal of the vaganova school) few days ago and he said that when they accept kids to their ballet academy if they have 2 of 60 with a proper body type - is a win. that a perfect ballerina is the one with long legs and arms small head, long neck and short torso
When I auditioned for Canada's National Ballet School in the 1990s they had specifications for girls they would accept into their program. I don't know those specifications but what I recall is we had to be able to do the splits, had to have a few years of ballet training and we were tested for hip rotation and strength and endurance of the muscles around the pelvis. In my first year there was intense conditioning classes besides the regular technique classes to bring everyone up to the strength and endurance standards to withstand the rigours of dance.
At 5 my teacher had already ruled me out of being a professional ballerina due to my shoulder width and the fact my muscles would develop more bulky than lean.
I think the body type requirements are so dumb. I mean, if someone is an amazing performer and a passionate dancer, they'll work their butts off to give it their all every single day. Isn't that better than having hyper extended knees? (From experience, hyper extension comes with some potentially painful side effects if you are constantly letting your knees straighten as far as they go.)
I was too black and too tall. If I had not been dancing at SAB (Balanchine's school), I might have gone further. I'm happy some amazing dancers, such as Misty Copeland, have cracked that barrier.
I wish Misty Copeland didn't get so much hate though. A lot of people are REALLY focused on not liking her. :( I hope that gets better for future dancers.
Yeaaaa i got bullied by my other dancemates cuz i was fat which actually reason why i quit, mind you i was like 12- 15 years old. Sometimes i think about what could have been but i dont regret quitting, i still love ballet dancing (in the comfort of my home😂). I switched gears and now do hip hop style dancing🤪
Funnily enough, Maria Khoreva has a slightly longer torso than the average accentuated by her narrow biacromial distance. *THE* ideal from head to toe should be *Zakhárova*
Theres expectation for bharathanatyam it's a strict tamil classical dance. You can't be too tall, too short, not overweight, not too skinny, must have an hourglass, not beady eyes, must have good teeth, symmetrical face so on and so forth. I just learned ballet has it too
I'm slim, but I've never had the ideal body for professional ballet, and I'm *totally okay with that.* Going on pointe is dangerous for a lot of people if they're too heavy or don't have the feet for it. I don't need people to tell me nice things to delude me into thinking it's the industry's fault. It's nobody's fault! Besides, I have to confess that, unlike most of the people commenting, I can't dance. You know the old saying, "putting lipstick on a pig just makes the pig look goofy?" Well, teaching me a dance to perform just looks like a coordinated and planned attempt to be goofy. If I didn't dance like nobody's watching, I'd never dance at all.
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my girlfriend was a ballerina and started training at age 4 . Her whole life was ballet. By 16 she was part of the national company but got fired after a few years because they said her hip rotation was not enough. it broke her heart. all she knew was ballet.
I had the same with a dear colleague of mine. She was cut out of the company at age 18 after dedicating her whole life to the national ballet, because she grew 2cm too tall. As a result she started eating a lot to refrain from the ideal ballet body she had always so carefully contained and is super traumatized. I encouraged her a few years ago to slowly give it a chance again because the love for ballet is still there. But that she should focus on enjoying it instead of the harsh reality of the professional ballet world
There are lots of other companies!!!
@@nylapierce1719agreed. I mean, the aesthetic is there for a reason and this is why Vaganova is so strict about what they look for when they're kids. They also look at the parents to see what they might develop into as well.
But there have been companies taking all sorts of body types for decades. Letting the training and passion go because one company director doesn't want you is silly.
That's so sadd
Oh my God, the exact same thing happened to me. Except that I started training at 2. I know exactly how she felt 😢.
Ballet was everything to me as well, I adore it till this day but I'm still so heartbroken that I didn't get the chance to pursuit the thing that I love the most for the rest of my life
That hyper extended knee and foot right at the beginning, suggests a genetic hyper mobility disorder, and some areas of dance are starting to acknowledge that they have celebrated and forced hyper mobility to the point of endangering the dancers’ long term health and well-being.
That would be ehlers danlos syndrome, which can become incredibly painful and crippling as you age. That much dancing would only speed up the natural deterioration of what cartilage they had in their joints, leaving bones to rub directly together and joints to dislocate more easily.
The hyperextended leg requires some serious coaching, getting the hamstrings to help, and pulling up quads without locking.
It requires a hyper mobility in the joint itself, which is now evaluated by medical doctors as a potentially very serious health condition. If it is systemic it can lead to heart conditions, internal organ issues, later in life loss of mobility and more. I have several friends who discovered later in life that they have this syndrome. All were praised for flexibility when young.Two are not living life aided by wheelchairs and one has hands that must be bandaged so those joints don slip when she uses them to walk with a cane. Ehlers-Danlos is a genetic syndrome. The dance world is starting to understand that it exists.
@@v.britton4445
Yeah, I have that hypermobility and my teachers actually trained me out of locking back because they realized how dangerous it can actually be to your body’s health down the line… definitely thankful to them for that!
@@celiapolman5618 I am so happy to hear that. It is getting recognized more now, and you and your teachers are a wonderful example.
My parents were told when I was a hopeful young ballet studentI didn't have a "ballet body." Long torso, short legs, short arms, only a medium arch and missing a lot of the ideal qualities she mentions here. Thankfully that means I have the perfect figure skater body and that's worked out well for me.
😂hahaha love this! Play to your strengths ❤
Okay so I'm doing ballet. I have good feet arches. I think I have a little bit of hypertension but I don't really use it. I don't have that much turnout. I have a long next and really sloppy shoulders which the woman in the video said it was good. I have a slightly big head. And my legs are a bit short and my arms are more short. So I honestly don't think I'll get accepted anywhere and it's too late to change to figure skating. Okay so I don't know if you know Anna McNulty she's a contorsionist. Okay so when she grabs her feet and put it right next to her head her leg only reaches a little bit above her head. Okay so that would be my leg proportion I think. With the arms since my shoulders are really dropped if I keep them down then they look longer than they actually are but when I put them in fifth above my head then they look like baby arms. And my height is 162 (5,4) so I'm not sure if that's tall enough. What do you think about it. Do I have your same body type? Is my physique more appropriate for another sport?
@@elisatoledanomasanet3518 Can you dance? That's what matters.
Do you have competition videos on youtube?
@@elisatoledanomasanet3518it really only matters if you’re doing very high level with picky exclusive people only taking certain body types
As a teen I was an aspiring ballerina dancing 4+ hours a day, 7 days a week, but being told that my “head is too big” and “frame is too large” to ever be a ballerina, basically nerfed my self confidence for years, resulting in body dysmorphia, really horrible insecurities that I’m still trying to overcome, and an extremely unhealthy relationship with food that I’ve finally begun to fix over 10 years later. For this reason I won’t be encouraging my kids to pursue ballet. It’s impossible to protect dancers from people with such points of view and to me there are other artistic ways to enjoy physical activity and creative outlet.
I was not as dedicated a ballet student as you but loved it and wanted to continue at the age of 13. I had a similar experience related to body type criticism and suffered the same long-term body dysmorphia and eating disorder behavior. Upon hearing my teacher’s assessment, I quit my ballet studies. I so wish someone had introduced me soon after to the fun and engaging world of ballroom dancing. I didn’t discover it until I was nearly 60 years old and found that it came easily to me and offered me much joy. You are absolutely right: there are many other ways to enjoy the use of our bodies and our artistic expression than trying to meet the demanding and unrealistic standards of the ballet art world.😊
In ex Soviet countries they say that to 4 year olds. We (aspiring ballerinas and their families) see it as them saving us trouble. I live in Canada now where the mentality is the complete opposite. My six year old tried synchronized swimming. Her team had a girl with a Down Syndrome and another one who was obese. It was wonderful to see how every child was welcome and how everyone was unique. My mum saw it as a complete waste of my time and money as such a team would never "achieve" anything. She can't fathom that these 6-10 year olds are just having fun and for me that's better than being glued to screens. Now my daughter dances in a "competitive" team. It is still a very amateur level and their meets are only once a week which I think is appropriate for a hobby for such age but I have to explain it over and over to my mum because to her you either aspire to be Olympian or why bother.
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It's cool that you are recovering but it is a good teacher's responsibility to point out students' flaws and mistakes
@@vlatstrapes3931 Yes, but the size of one's head or frame is neither a flaw nor a mistake. The instructor was expressing only an opinion and one unrelated to ability to dance. It was a reflection of standards set and maintained by some, but not all, players in the performing arts community. Those standards are not set in stone, and there are always outliers. It was not his or her job to try to anticipate the student's acceptance by others--especially if the remarks about body type were not solicited by the student.
Today I Iearned that I have a perfect ballerina body apart from the obesity lmao.
I'm dead 💀 🤣
That's actually sad. I hope you're not obese.
@@alabama.worley Not as bad as I was. Every day it gets a little better. I used to be around 150 lbs overweight, now I've lost around 100 lbs, and I can run without getting tired which is a dream come true. It still is hard but compared with before, I feel like I got so extremely lucky to escape from that hell.
😂😂😂
You killed me in laughter
Something she misses here is a specific height of 5’2” to 5’6” (a little taller in certain companies). And in order to be accepted to Russian schools, you need a perfect turn out at the hips, which is constrained by bone structure (many prima ballerinas don’t have this in America). People often assume I’m a ballet dancer. I’m not. But my mother was and I inherited the right body type and “look.” It’s a pretty rare thing.
You have an antiquated view of ballet. There are highly successful dancers in major companies who are under five feet tall to over six feet tall. NYCBallet alone has several women who are 5'10". Maria Kochetkova is barely five feet tall. Talent is not dependent on height. Very few people have "perfect" turnout. The most important attribute of any dancer is the desire to dance. If you really have that, it doesn't matter what some no name teacher thinks.
@@simbahunter8894preach
I don't think that's how it works, you don't inherit the features that your parents got through practicing sports. Bruh 😂😂😂
@@shizukagozen777 she means like survival of the fittest. those with the right “genes” and body type are going to be selected more in traditional ways of practicing ballet. so she’s making sense, but there’s strange seemingly elitist amount of ego there… such an outdated perspective
@@simbahunter8894Actually, here in the USA they prefer short dancers (5’2”-ish). 5’6” is considered too tall. Now, if you’re in Russia or Eastern Europe they prefer ballerinas 5’6” and taller. Trust me, I’ve been dancing ballet for a long time and companies ALWAYS choose the shortest ballet dancers for the big roles. Part of this reason is also that male dancers in the USA are much shorter than their European counterparts. So when they do a pas de deaux, it won’t look good unless the female ballerina is significantly shorter than the male. The males in the US are usually 5’6” to 5’8” and that is SHORT.
I am so glad we’re talking about this. This is the kind of thing that gets described as “technique.” And, more toxically imo, this is the kind of thing that ballet dancers judge each other for.
Technique is not natural ability, it is hard work and dedication. It is obvious who the losers are when they don't want to work hard on their technique and then get mad at being judged for their poor results. Don't want to work hard? Don't do ballet. Ballet done poorly will only destroy your body.
You forgot to mention the most obvious one - small pelvis / narrow hips ( I wrote both because some people argue about what and where the "hips" actually are )
And small chest. More than a few very talented ballet dancers never reach their potential as performers because major companies won't accept women with full breasts (not even talking large, just...prominent, like "normal" women, lol).
That's actually not a prerequisite
Thank you for explaining the body type that is SUPPOSED to be indicative of greater artistic (ballet) abilities. I am glad to know this, and I am thrilled that people who don’t have “the ideal” body are destroying this notion every day all over the world.😊
Usually they aren’t far off from it, though. They are still very slim, have longer legs than most people, and very fit. Only if you are super duper picky would you say they deviate that much.
@@decimusvitaeExactly, most of the dancers in the top tier ballet companies do have that body type, or very close.
It isn't something that is being destroyed, and it does serve functional purposes in some ways.
Smaller, less prestigious, or more contemporary companies deviate from those standards more and are often where great technical dancers who don't fit the ideal body type go.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 I can't imagine a size 18 ballet dancer EVER . I'D STOP GOING TO THE BALLET
Thrilled? Are you resentful or what?
I don't want to see ballet ruined by the fat acceptance camp.
@@icantbebotheredwithnames That’s so rude of you. Anyone can do ballet, this cliché of doing a sport associated to a physique is so outdated and close minded.
This confirms that I've never met a dancer with the ideal ballet body...and every single one I have met is STUNNING!
I am Russian, and i am a dancer. Not a ballet dancer though. As a child and teen i was told i had all the ideal proportions for a ballet dancer. I thought about it but then i went to an audition and they lectured me about my chest size which was a bit bigger than average. I had always been insecure about it. So i decided to move on and find my passion in dance elsewhere. I went to hip hop, jazz and pop dancing where i was allowed to exist as i am. I miss dancing. Sadly i cannot dance much after surgeries but i hope to one day again. I think these standards for ballerinas are a bit much and can be harmful especially to young growing girls.
We are so glad you found your dancing journey across so many genres! Hope you can dance safely again one day too 💃💪🏻
I'd try dance at moulin rouge or vegas show
#russiaisaterroriststate
Tbh I always was under the impression that Svetlana Zakharova was THE ideal ballet body with the long lines, super arched foot etc. At least that’s what my teacher told me as a kid lol (I only took classes a year- all the grace of a bag of potatoes)
Maria who is shown actually is known for having a relatively long upper body. She’s still a lovely and very technical dancer.
Interestingly it’s said here that they look for people with natural turnout natural who find it easy, but Maria herself has said she really struggled a lot with it in her younger years.
Zakharova is something of an acquired taste for a lot of ballet fans
In the wrong costume her disproportionately long back does her no favors visually. But she does have great feet and a strong technique. Chacon à son goût!
Her flexibility is insane, especially in the hips and pelvis.
@@se9f282khoreva trained in rhythmic gymnastics before entering in vaganova school.
Exactly what I came to say. Her arms also don’t bend “the right way”. I’ve been a lot of criticism on her legs on Russian forums too. Zakhrova and Lopatkina were and still are the gold standard.
@@PeacherLiz Ohh I love Lopatkina! I still think she is the best black swan ever.
She is a very tall dancer, around 1.75m iirc.
I wish this was explained to young girls so they wouldn't take it personally. While weight can go up or down, one has no control over neck structure or knees that only slightly hyper extend.
It's sad that they tell kids they can be anything they want to be if they just work hard enough. It is not true.
If I had a daughter I would never put her in ballet, the environment is quite toxic and they pretty much all struggle with eating disorders at one point or another
You want strong straight knees. Hyperextension will only keep you injured. If you don't match the mainstream, you can find a niche.
I’m too old to be told this now- but when I was a younger woman I often got asked if I was a ballet dancer. Hearing these things makes me see why now. Turned out hips, the shoulders, relatively thin, and the small head! I always hated my small head.
Small heads are considered very beautiful in japan I heard. They call it small face and even photoshop and manipulate photos to try to replicate it. 😄
Me too, was thinking same!! Thin, long torso, hyper-extended legs/knees, long neck/sloped shoulders, good turnout, and strong C arch/point. What I was missing was the flexibility. And maybe height. Oh well, love to dance, don't need to be a pro!
@@BrightElkin Korea small head is beauty standard
I had all ballerina features except the shoulders (mine are square) and I am too tall. And yes I also hate my head being so small. With flat dull hair on it 😂😂
I took ballet from age 4 to 10, but I began to notice I was growing faster than the other girls as I approached my 11th birthday. I had long legs and long arms and a strong arch in my feet, but was also starting to develop full breasts. I took after my grandmother of Dutch ancestry and she was 5'9" tall. I grew to be 5'8" tall. I realized back then that any idea of continuing ballet seriously wasn't realistic. As I matured, my strong jawline and high cheekbones became more apparent, too. I didn't know until now that those qualities and square shoulders wouldn't have helped me out, either. And I've never been thin! But I loved ballet. 😢
Thank you for sharing your story! Glad you enjoyed your ballet days and we hope you still appreciate it fondly 🩰
You would have been a perfect swimmer though! I have broad shoulders and am 5’6 and absolutely love swimming because even though if you’re taller you have a slight advantage, it’s more skill based and there’s no “set” body type expectations.
@@LilacMorelli Swimmers are often very tall, at least Olympic level. They have very long arms, long torsos, and short legs. If you look at Michael Phelps, his body is very unusual, but he is perfect for swimming, which is why he has been so incredibly successful. He fits the characteristics of Marfan Syndrome too actually, and many people believe he has the condition. It has been reported that he has his heart monitored regularly, and heart problems can be a complication of marfans.
Phelps is 6'4" with an extremely long torso, very long arms with a "wingspan of 6'7" which is 3" longer than it should be, deep chest and his legs are very short for his height. The average male Olympic swimmer is 6'2 and the average woman Olympic swimmer is 5'9". Of course there are exceptions. I love swimming, but at just under 5'6, I would have been at a disadvantage at the higher levels. I have a cousin who is very into swimming and competes at a high level. He is 6"5. There is a famous woman Olympic swimmer, Janet Evans, who is 5'6.
When you say swimming is skill-based, that is very true, but a taller swimmer has a natural advantage in skill, similar to basketball players. It's easier to make a basket when you can throw the ball over people's heads, lol. That's why most basketball players are so incredibly tall, with of course a few exceptions. I think it's hard for people to accept that certain body types are just at a big advantage for certain sports. It's unfair, but it's just the way it is. Everyone doesn't have Michael Phelp's body and very very few can overcome his incredible natural advantages and skills when he's swimming at the top of his game.
Actually Maria Khoreva doesn't have the perfect dancer body. Her torso is long compared to her legs. Same was true for Vishneva. But they are both such outsize talents I guess this "shortcoming" was overlooked.
Actually Maria Khoreva's extremely hyperextended knees are not considered "ideal", snd she's a bit too thin, at least in these photos. However she's a soloist because she's a charming and musical performer. (She also speaks perfect English.) The Maryinsky Ballet corps is full of people with "perfect" bodies. You can have an ideal body but so so talent.
Thank you for pointing out the flaw in companies idealizing hyper extention, as it predisposes dancers to serious injury.
She DANCES beautifully, I believe that's why she so famous, Plisetskaya didn't have extensions like her either, she didn't need that to be named Prima Ballerina Absoluta
Thank you! No offense to the dancer, but I don’t like the look of those knees lol
Too thin?🤔
And now Maria Khoreva is recuperating from a serious knee injury. Extreme hyperextension is not an asset.
My daughter is 12 and has been in pre-professional training since she was 8. She hasn’t experienced this and I hope she won’t for a long time. The studio she dances at is very aware of the different body types and and the “ideal” type doesn’t apply to them. During conferences her first year I was told by one of the teachers that this is the age they start to see body image issues. They invited a homeopathic doctor to talk about the importance of nutrition and how they should be eating more calories when they are dancing. I pray this stays a safe place for all these kids.
I don't really know how I got here from building bird houses...
Haha, we are glad you are here nevertheless! Keep up your good work!
This is also pretty specific to the Russian style of ballet which has also become the typical “ideal” here in the US. But it isn’t the case in all countries. Growing up I knew I didn’t have that typical “ideal” body because my feet were flatter and I’m naturally very muscular with rounder/bulkier muscles…. But then I had a dance teacher from Brazil who was a professional dancer there and had trained in Cuba as well who told me I had the perfect body for ballet. That made me realize that these idealized physiques are only based around one culture’s decision about what was ideal and not what is necessarily ACTUALLY ideal for being able to perform the techniques well.
Seeing her hyperextended knee in that pic causes pain to my EDS
as a male dancer I'd I'd like to debunker theory I hear a LOT which is that we only like partnering with the thin ballerinas THIS IS NOT TRUE WE PREFER TO HAVE A BALLERINA WHO IS STRONG AND CAN HELP US BY KEEPING THEMSELVES IN CHECK TOO and that DOESN'T MEAN we hate the ballerinas if they have a certain body type and we always want them to feel good about themselves we care about the ballerinas we do more than just dance with them we hang out with and learn alongside them we work together not against each other
I really hope people begin to see skill over body type. I only really got into dance as an adult. I’m tall and plus size. I don’t look like a dancer. I’m even a retired rugby player. I’m currently training to compete nationally in adapted ballroom.
Skill changes and is dependent on body type.
Please stick to rugby and the like. You don’t understand aesthetics.
Yeah, no to the two above me. I hope everything goes well with your training!!
@@drsalkaWhy do I sense gossip forum/pro-ana?
@@drsalkawhat?
I always thought everyone’s ideal shape is different but tends to be similar due to the molding of the exercises and it’s different simply because the bodies are predetermined by genetics. It’s better to judge on muscle size/frame -complex ratios rather than trying to graft ideals from one person on to the other.
It isn't molding due to exercises. It's that the ones who get to the very top have built-in natural advantages. So as dancers drop off as the dancing becomes more elite, the more you will see specific body types with the natural advantages. It's the same with many sports, basketball being a big one in terms of height and hand size. If you've ever noticed, basketball players have disproportionately big hands, even for their tall bodies, and it is a huge advantage.
Also there's a difference between an asthetic and a physical advantage. In the late 90's, women's gymnastics became very toxic with the waif look favored by the Karolis. The Karolis insisted upon starving their gymnasts and were perhaps convinced that thinner gymnasts were better gymnasts. We now know that this is not true, especially when considering style. A 5 ft gymnast who is extremely tiny with long arms and legs will naturally do better in the "graceful" elements of gymnastics that the Karolis preferred. What we have in today's gymnastics however is a different type of sport that is centered on power and strength. For that you need a powerful, but compact body with large muscles, thicker legs, shorter arms and carrying more weight to propel them. It's a completely different (and healthier) asthetic in today's women's gymnastics, and that asthetic changed when the sport itself changed and became more about strength and not as much about grace.
If ballet changed in some fundamental way, which it may do with some schools admitting different body types with different skill-sets, then we will see a shift away from the current ashetic as well.
I love my little studio where everyone is welcomed to dance, no matter age, skill, or body type. I think barring people from pursuing a career based on their natural physical traits is ridiculous, and I'm glad she talks about professional ballerinas who don't fit all these criteria! The one thing I will say is that it can be helpful to have a certain style of body that matches a certain style of dance. My hips are naturally turned in (my kneecaps almost touch if I stand with my feet together parallel) and it does definitely get in the way of some things I try to do.( Plies are not my friends.) So I can at least see why they have an ideal body, even if I don't agree with making selections purely based on it
No one should be barred from pursuing a hobby, but not every studio is geared toward that. Studios that train dancers for a career should ABSOLUTELY honestly bar career focused dancers who do not have a possibility in the career because of certain attributes of their physique. It’s ridiculous and dishonest otherwise.
@@Esther_Graceamen
I did ballet / lyrical for about 12 years with a couple breaks in between, and never once did anyone tell me I couldn’t do ballet because of my body type… guess it’s because I never got super far into the “elite” groups lol. I did, however, find out that it’s much easier and less damaging to be on pointe if you have a high arch and your second toes aren’t longer than your big toes 😂 mine are… and I also don’t have high arches. My feet look pretty flat when I’m standing, but I can still go up on demi-pointe quite easily. I loved ballet because it felt natural to me (I was always flexible), and I felt graceful and happy when I danced. I miss that structure and outlet sometimes.
There are classes for adults if you just want that feeling again.
It's funny, people have often said I look like a ballerina but I fulfill barely any criteria. I have a large head and narrow but VERY square shoulders. I can do a pretty good turnout at the hips and have long limbs but that's about it.
I'm glad this artform gets a bit more inclusive though although there's always gonna be pinheads
I'm a pinhead but I got big boobs and batwings 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
@@claireschweizer4765 oh no I apologize in this case I meant pinhead as "small brain" as in their head is tiny because they have tiny brain volume (which is not in actuality scientifically correct because brain size isn't usually an indicator for processing ability and critical thinking, it was a genuine joke), nothing wrong with having a smaller head of course. Or a bigger head for that matter. I think artistic expression - including ballet - is for everyone as long as health supports it
The current Zakharova walking stick body is dominant in Vaganovka because Tsiskaridze favours it, and it will likely last as least as long as his tenure.
I personally much prefer more naturally proportioned dancers, like Osipova or Vishneva.
Don't shame her
I love all three ballerinas. But, Zakharova does have the best line. Vishneva has the incredible back flexibility and more drama. Osipova has technically the best turns and jumps.
Some people are naturally thin so your comment about " more naturally proportioned" is unintentionally body shaming.
Osipova proves that talk about body type is irrelevant.
Maria Koreva is as perfect as I have seen, and incredibly musical.
This is insane. It's not like they can change these specific things about their bodies.
This is all true, but all professional dancers have low body fat. That's the one thing they all have in common, you cannot get away from that.
Understandably, she probably she didn't want to get flooded by hate comments which is sad.
She said that at 0:30
@@Ri57490 Thank you for pointing that out. I missed it
This was kind of a confidence boost for me. Started dance pretty late at 12 and had big ambitions. In the end training never got intensive enough to go professional but I always felt pretty big in dance class. I have a broad back and am very square in the upper body and rather sporty and muscly than thin but interestingly I have all of the physical aspects you mentioned. I know they are toxic and so discriminating. But for me who always felt to "fat" for the balerina body to find out that I do have the balerina body and my dedication kind of paid out here ( turnout and arches were not natural to me) makes me unexpectedly happy.
My only mistake was not going to a ballet school or even a different studio for training in my childhood/teen years but I did get my degree in dance and teach ballet now! A lot of hidden talent just at the wrong institution. Sad because a lot of studios are just in it for the money 😞
It's absolutely insane how physically unsuited I am for ballet. I have literally the opposite of every feature she mentioned. I even have a longer second toe.
My mum used to do ballet when she was young, she was told she would never be accepted as a professional dancer because her rib cage was too big. She said she cried for weeks when she eventually had to quit, all she wanted to do was dance.
Thank you so much for this information and clarification!
The legacy of Sylvie Guillem is still there.
The last sentence says more than all. Absolute passion. ❤
This is very interesting. I loved ballet as a kid but definitely never really had that classic ballet body type
Just like there are better body types for different sports. Just because you don't have it, it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it.
Beautifully said. Unfortunately most people nowadays buy into the lie that everyone can do everything. Lol. Nope. And we aren't all meant to do everything.
its funny because masha khoreva has extremely short legs and shoulders too... but thats still irrelevant to her as a professional dancer because of all other things that (anatomically) helped her to develop her skills (her natural flexibility, her arches, etc...) + her full dedication to ballet.....
btw shes an incredible artist ❤
I feel like the main thing that matters in this type of thing when it comes down to any type of art is your passion, dedication hard work etc
@@UsagiMay ........ thats just what i said
@VitalijKaramakov sorry bm.
"Look at her eyes...we have to to take her." Wow!
I did ballet (for fun) and meet most of this criteria, except I have sharply defined shoulders. Sloped shoulders are really pretty and elegant, so I see the appeal in a ballerina with this feature.
Thanks for sharing! Hope you continue to dance ballet too even if it’s for fun 🩰
When I was younger I did ballet and I had all of this proportions of body because I had problems with food and eating. I was on a studio who was body positive and most of the classmates I had were kinda of a plus size, I was kinda ignored because I was very shy and learning was super hard on my part (I learn very slow, it's in my psychiatric record). Most of the other girls were amazing dancers until this days, like 5-8 years later. I'm still trying to be better, but my body changed a lot because I'm now an adult, also my body type is really different because I was underweight when I was like 15-17, now I have more hips and kinda big thights. I'm still hyperextended and flexible, but I think... If I was more into ballet academias instead of my actual group, I'd be unhealthy but still with that type of body.
(BTW) Idk, I just wanted to say it. I don't know if this can be interpreted as me trying to look skinnier, I'm not, I know I'm healthier rn, and I kinda like my body now. I just wanted to share something in my mind
I love Maria Khoreva. Truly thrilling to watch. She is the quintessential dancer 🩰
Oh Brahms❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for the reminder, I need to listen to him more often
I think Maria Khoreva is incredible but I also think her torso looks very long compared to her legs
I’m pretty short with disproportionally large feet (even at a young age) and I still remember my teacher yelling at me to point my toes during petit allegros. At that age, I couldn’t jump higher than the length of my feet so you can imagine my problem. Eventually overcame it but it definitely made me realize pretty early on that I didn’t have the ideal body for ballet 😂
I have an actress face (good for film, not so much stage if I am too low in weight) BECAUSE having pronounced features can make ballerinas look gaunt or sickly, especially because they have to meet underweight weight requirements, those who lose weight in their face will have that effect dramatized by lighting on stage. Having a child like/chubby face helps avoid this problem. Though, I think we are well past the need for pedophilic beauty standards. Especially in ballet.
Crushing someone's dreams for an attribute they can't control is horrible, enough said.
Thank you for sharing with this with us.
Most welcome 🤗
I do love Maria Khoreva even if I think the idea that a certain body type is 'better' is daft and outdated
*I love Ballet
I haven’t watched a lot of this video and I gotta tell you, you can dance in any body. Ballet is for everyone, and actually your body might change because you do ballet! But really; there is no perfect mold, the perfect mold is you.
It is very dangerous for joints to try to do all this ballet splits etc with a wrong body type. Ballet can seriously harm a body of a wrong person.
@@go_ratio fact: people whose joints are naturally hyper extended, are at greater risk of injury, than those without this trait.
Ballet training is not harmful to any body type when properly instructed.
Ballet IS for everybody!! I will die on this beautiful hill!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@Gingerblazeespecially Cechetti method lol
@@claireschweizer4765 no it isn't. I have a congenital spine disorder that was undiagnosed throughout my life until recently when I found out why I've suffered pain my whole life. I was ignored as a child when I said my back hurt. Teachers thought I just pulled a muscle or whatever. In fact, I had a serious deformity that has now led to nerve damage and disc ruptures. Why? Because of that mentality that we must work hard and ignore pain that is common in ballet and gymnastics, as well as in some other sports and even in just general physical education. Ballet would have crippled me had I been forced into those poses as a child.
I would be torn apart. I have long legs but a short torso and normal arms a short neck. My legs and feet are alright.
My mother did ballet up until 17. She was doing an audition and got into a fight with her male partner and he purposefully dropped her and my moms hip popped out of place and she was told that her injury would hinder her dancing, so she stopped dancing and joined the military instead.
Could you do one for the ideal male ballet body type?
ahhh maria is one of my favorite dancer!!! she's amazing!
She is! ❤️❤️
These occupational restrictions are only the norm because somebody that doesn't fit their rigid appearances hasn't come along and destroyed those ideals yet. I feel like true art is going against the norms created by people long dead.
What I'm saying is, don't give up on something you're passionate about because you don't look like a flamingo❤
False. Ballet is an art form predicated upon creating an almost non-human and sylph-like feminine creature on stage. These aesthetics are good and I'm glad companies in Russia at least are adhering to them. It's beautiful to behold, in a very different way to companies with all sorts of body types.
But would someone outside of these body types be able to succeed in all of the movements? For example in gymnastics not every woman can do a side split because if you have wide hips they get in the way and of course you can't train away bone structure. The same way a ballerina wouldn't make a good boxer because no matter how much they bulked up they would still be too delicate
Um...Sara Michelle Murawski, Plisetskaya, Melissa Anduzia and literally HUNDREDS of others have left da chat 💀😭😭😭😭
Thank you for boosting my confidence 💗
That last part when she says, 'She looked into her eyes and saod we have to take her'.😭🙌❤️ That's just beautiful.
💕
Her story is beautiful!
Great Video. Very Informative.
Thank you!
I can understand why smooth features look good on stage, the lighting would definitely play a role, those with noticeable cheekbones like Benedict Cumberbatch would have a slight cast upon their face that may look odd depending on the positioning of the lighting which usually would be a permanent fix while with film you can adjust the lighting to give any illusion you desire.
Diana Vishneva also almost got expelled from vaganova when she was a younger student. Idk why something to do with the end of year exam.
Ela é maravilhosa👏
Could you do one for men in ballet?
Remember, your worth is not tied to achieving any one dream or any one body type. I had to give up the dream career I worked for years to achieve due to a severe chronic illness. It's okay to not be cut out for something. God has a plan for you ♥
It's important to remember all ballet companies have their own individual criteria. Some don't even favour super/over extension, for example.
I never surrender
and emile is never blue
what a wonderful world
now i get why i was told to do ballet as a kid, i do have the body
There are many forms of dance for those who are not the " right" body type.
The head of the StLouis Civic Ballet said I would never be a dancer. Proved him wrong. True, I was never a " ballerina " , but danced professionally for 5 years [ supporting myself entirely by performing - no side jobs] and had a wonderful rewarding and fun time!! Practice and persevere and dont listen to Naysayers!!!!!!!
Svetlana has extremely strong jaw line, high cheekbones and so does in fact all the great ballerinas in the UK, all over the world.
Both my cousins were ballerinas. They both had foot surgery before 18 and had ED. I love ballet. Thank you for educating us on both sides of a very beautiful craft.
Diana Vishneva is a gorgeous dancer.
They have kinda ideal body type yeah but usually no one is perfectly matching it of course and usually on stage and in her instagram maria appears long legged but she actually aren’t 🤷🏽♀️
So you can also train to look good for stage
Super interesting video
I can imagine what Sara Mearns go through. We can be so hard on people for how they look, they don't choose it. During the 90s the Paris Opera Ballet had a lot of square big shoulder danse etoiles like Sara Mearns.
If body type is in your daily literature I don’t want any.
What, lol? Who are you saying that to?
Starts at 1:11
Back in the day NBS would measure the ratio of hip to knee, knee to ankle, also waist to hip to shoulder to gauge how your body would mature. They also wanted to see how your parents bodies looked.
I don't like the over arched foot. Not sure when that became the ideal. The goal should be to pull that heal back and create a gorgeous straight line. It's gotten to the point the feet look like hooks and it's not pretty imo.
iwas watching an interview with nikolai ciskaridze ( orincipal of the vaganova school) few days ago and he said that when they accept kids to their ballet academy if they have 2 of 60 with a proper body type - is a win. that a perfect ballerina is the one with long legs and arms small head, long neck and short torso
When I auditioned for Canada's National Ballet School in the 1990s they had specifications for girls they would accept into their program. I don't know those specifications but what I recall is we had to be able to do the splits, had to have a few years of ballet training and we were tested for hip rotation and strength and endurance of the muscles around the pelvis. In my first year there was intense conditioning classes besides the regular technique classes to bring everyone up to the strength and endurance standards to withstand the rigours of dance.
this gave me hope
At 5 my teacher had already ruled me out of being a professional ballerina due to my shoulder width and the fact my muscles would develop more bulky than lean.
I flunked out of ballet school because I wasn't flexible enough. But all these years later, I'm thinking it might be a blessing in disguise...
Me... short limbs, long neck but also long torso and muscles that show up if i work out for about 2 weeks
Well my mom was right when she didnt let me waste time try to do ballet as a baby as my skull is humongous😂❤
😂😂😂
It’s giving Kpop beauty standards 😮💨
I think the body type requirements are so dumb. I mean, if someone is an amazing performer and a passionate dancer, they'll work their butts off to give it their all every single day. Isn't that better than having hyper extended knees? (From experience, hyper extension comes with some potentially painful side effects if you are constantly letting your knees straighten as far as they go.)
Wow! A short which was actually interesting & informative.
What about height?
Generally it’s 5’1-5’8 depending on the school or company. The ideal I’ve seen is 5’3-5’6.
I have all of these appart from high arches and good turn out so idk how to feel
I have the neck arms legs BUT one foot is kinda flat and the other one it naturally curved and my feet also have different sizes too
Just learning that had I started ballet 40 years ago I may have had a shot....😅
I was too black and too tall. If I had not been dancing at SAB (Balanchine's school), I might have gone further. I'm happy some amazing dancers, such as Misty Copeland, have cracked that barrier.
I wish Misty Copeland didn't get so much hate though. A lot of people are REALLY focused on not liking her. :( I hope that gets better for future dancers.
Yeaaaa i got bullied by my other dancemates cuz i was fat which actually reason why i quit, mind you i was like 12- 15 years old. Sometimes i think about what could have been but i dont regret quitting, i still love ballet dancing (in the comfort of my home😂). I switched gears and now do hip hop style dancing🤪
After all Marias rejection, one teacher saw her and said but those EYES, lets take her! 😮
That was Diana, not Maria.
Funnily enough, Maria Khoreva has a slightly longer torso than the average accentuated by her narrow biacromial distance. *THE* ideal from head to toe should be *Zakhárova*
💃
Theres expectation for bharathanatyam it's a strict tamil classical dance. You can't be too tall, too short, not overweight, not too skinny, must have an hourglass, not beady eyes, must have good teeth, symmetrical face so on and so forth. I just learned ballet has it too
I'm slim, but I've never had the ideal body for professional ballet, and I'm *totally okay with that.* Going on pointe is dangerous for a lot of people if they're too heavy or don't have the feet for it. I don't need people to tell me nice things to delude me into thinking it's the industry's fault. It's nobody's fault! Besides, I have to confess that, unlike most of the people commenting, I can't dance.
You know the old saying, "putting lipstick on a pig just makes the pig look goofy?" Well, teaching me a dance to perform just looks like a coordinated and planned attempt to be goofy. If I didn't dance like nobody's watching, I'd never dance at all.
Dancing when nobody is watching is the best 🙌🏻 Keep being you!