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Moen 1222 cartridge amzn.to/2TaJJcj
Home repair Moen 1222 cartridge stuck really bad by froggy
Thanks for millions of views!
Attempt all work at your own risk. The publisher bears no responsibility for improper or unsafe repairs, injury, or damages to property that may result from your work or this video.
Thankx froggy. On my ancient 1222 cartridge, it turns out the rubber seals had fallen apart when I started pulling them out. WD 40 copiously applied throughout the project (it doesn't corrode rubber) and heavy duty vice grips wiggling back & forth while pulling out eventually removed the old cartridge. Having a good radio station playing in the background also helped a lot!
I agree with the wd 40 method. I tried that while twisting, re inserting and slowly pulling out several times which works the lubricant more into the old cartridge. After 10 min or so I got that SOB out. WD 40 for the win!
I found myself with almost an identical scenario. Thank you for suggesting drilling holes in the plastic cartridge to weaken it. That helped and it also allowed me to jam needle nose pliers into the holes and I was able to twist, wiggle and finally pull the damaged cartridge out. Thanks again!
]
LOL: I had to drill it out then chisel it out and break more plastic to finally reach the black rubber side panels and yank them out with hemostats to finally remove the cartridge. I didn't scratch the valve sides but almost drilled out the back of the valve ( whew! that was close) Anyway the new valve went in without a hitch using the silicone liquid. No more slow leak. I wish I had seen your video before my adventure. Thank you so much for your video though. I learned a lot.
I am a service plumber (four decades) and I have run across this same problem many, many times. However, it doesn’t have to be as difficult as you made it for yourself - I would have this cartridge replaced in no more than ten minutes - every time. What I do is drill two small holes through the plastic at 12:00 and 6:00, centered about 3/16” from the side of the brass stem hole at about a 10º angle in towards the center of the cartridge. The drill bit will go in about 1/4” before it stops when it hits the top of the stainless steel balancing spool in the center of the plastic cartridge. Once this is done, I put two coarse-threaded wood or drywall screws into the holes I drilled and slowly screw them in, alternating from one to the other. What this does is push the balancing spool against the back of the valve while, at the same time, pulling the plastic portion of the cartridge out. It works every time.
One tip: if you are going to try to use Vise Grip pliers as your first attempt at pulling the cartridge out, make sure to put the broken piece of the brass stem back into the hole in the cartridge before you clamp down. This will keep the plastic from crushing and give you a much better grip.
Good tips & of course most pros know the tricks & do it faster. But they don't post videos to help us regular folks. This is one of my top 12 videos. Thanks for adding info in the comments. :)
i hope you can make a video of it, would be a great help.. thank you
I would love to see a video, even images of this method. I'm at 6 hours and still stuck. I think this would be worth trying. The brass part broke so the method above won't work for me.
Just using internal pipe remover ( set of 3s : 1/4,3/8,1/2)) 30" to remove the broken stem .Good luck guys !
Did it work with the internal pipe wrench?
Thank you, Chris Marino (also Froggy)!!! You uploaded your comment about 1 year ago
. I read it and got much help. Using a heat gun must be a very, very good idea. It did work well for me. I tried to pull out MOEN cartridge 1222 by using Danco Core Puller for Moen. I, then my friend who has strong arms tried very hard to pull out, but failed again and again. The cartridge came out about 3/4 inch, then stopped and never came out more. The rubber black oval stuck inside very firmly and tightly. I was afraid to break copper pipes while trying to pull out the stuck cartridge by using the puller. ... I gave up and went to bed, and read Chris Marino's comments early next morning. ..... I went to a HomeDepot and bought a Wagner Furno 300 heat gun (750~1100 F = 400~590 C; 2 settings; 1200 Watts; about $20.00) and a long needle nose plier (Channel Lock, 8"). I had several other small tools home. THE HEAT GUN WORKED VERY WELL. I heated the stuck cartridge for a short time, then broke the stuck cartridge little by little. I reaped this process many, many times, for about 30 minutes to one hour. Finally I removed the end part of the stuck cartridge. I was so happy!!! Installing a new cartridge was a quite easy job. Watch out and be careful when you break the stuck cartridge.
Froggy, what do you think using a heat gun to break stuck cartridges???
I think it's a good idea.
:)
Thank you for this video! Although, I wasn't able to utilize the tapping method - others' comments are what saved me. I had nearly the identical situation as shown in the video. After using the puller tool, the stem and 1/3 of the cartridge broke out. I was able to get the rest of the innards out with a combination of needle nose, flat head, and drilling. Once I had everything out, the outer shell was still seized inside. I went everywhere looking for an M18 tap, couldn't find one, and didn't want to wait a day or two from Amazon. Some other commenters mentioned being able to use a 3/4 SAE tap. I couldn't find that either. I did find a 3/4 NTP at Tractor Supply. When I went to pick it up, it seemed too big, so I got a 5/8 as well, but that seemed too small. I get home, sure enough, too big and too small. I was about ready to throw in the towel and call a plumber, when I read a comment about using a torch or heat gun to heat the pipe and melt the plastic housing. After about 15 minutes of heat (in 30 second spurts followed by tugging) I was finally able to pull the damn thing out! With the heat gun, I was able to make the plastic malleable enough to wedge a small flat head screwdriver in between it and the pipe, bend it over enough to actually get a decent bite on the needle nose. What I expected to take about 30 mins, ended up taking me about 5 hours.
Awesome job, yes lot's of info in the comments. :)
wow that cartridge was really in there!
good job not letting it get the best of you. Appreciate the video.
Thanks for the help! The cartridge got stuck and started to break apart. Pulled out everything in the core and was left with just the white plastic shell. Didn’t have a torch or anything so I grabbed some metal steak knives(?) and heated them up over the stove until they changed colors to a reddish glow. Then touched it onto the plastic to melt it a bit. Did this 2-3 times and it was enough to then easily break the melted plastic apart with my needle nose pliers to pull out all of the white shells.
Once that was out, the rest of the process was a piece of cake as it’s just plug and play.
Clever trick!
Thank you. a week of struggle on a 20 year old cartridge is finally over. 3/4" SAE tap did the trick.
A threaded 3/4" pipe also worked for me but at a fraction of the price.
I didn't know the name of my faucet until I spent a few hours trying to get everything off! (Why don't they put the name in a clear place??!??!?!?!!) Once I knew it was a Moen, my refined TH-cam search finally worked. I'm at the cartridge now, will hopefully be able to get it out. I don't have any taps... And success! Can't believe my wife had a heat gun, she uses it for embossing stuff. A little CLR and the heat gun for like 30 SECONDS and I pulled it out! Just hope Lowe's or HD has the replacement. I'm typing this about 4 hours after starting this job, using plenty of CLR and penetrating oil all along the way, from the set screw on the handle all the way to extracting the cartridge. What a PITA! You and Chris Marino (from two years ago) saved the day. Thanks!!!
Thank you thank you thank you. !!!!! Your method was the only one that works from all the videos that I watched. Needle nose and vice grips. 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Great!
Our Moen shower faucet was frozen; haven't used it more than a few times in the past 14 years since we purchased the house so was thinking the worst. Removed all the trim pieces and put vice grips on the shaft and turned it "easily" a little back and forth and it came loose with little effort. Pulled the shaft out with the vise grips while turning the shaft and it too came loose as well now shower head works. Hope everyone's experience was as good as mine. A suggestion: While you're working on it, remove the tub screen and have a look. Our house was built in '81 and through 3 owners probably never opened. Found a ton of hair and now water drains like new.
Thanks so much! It was the M18X1.5mm tap that finally got the remains of the cartridge removed. The handle is still seized on the old broken stem, but that's a job for tomorrow.
Just tackled the 1222 replacement. It was made a lot easier after using some of the ideas found here. I started by breaking off the 2 plastic tabs and then the cartridge spun easily with the plastic tool provided. I tried to pull it out with vice grips and spinning the cartridge at the same time, but no go. Next I used a hair dryer on the hottest setting as prescribed here to heat the valve housing. Twisted and pulled at the same time and BINGO, popped right out. Thanks to everyone here for the great advice.
Glad we all helped. Often the comments are as good as my video, so I don't always "take all the credit"
:)
Did the same with the plastic tabs, but the only the metal interior came out. I ended up slowly chiseling away the plastic. Will us heat gun next time.
Hair dryer to heat pipes, moen plastic tool to move tab back and forth, vice grips to pull and came out. Solution was in comments section of your video. Thank you. Was about to give up.
Omg thank you. Moen video makes it look like this thing can be pulled out SO easy. You saved my day, man. Thank you.
Yeah, they never show the real job. It can be done, not so easy. Thanks for viewing.
:)
Excellent tips! I noticed cuts on your hand and the tiles looking pretty sharp and jagged. I usually put masking tape on the tiles if its a tight sharp space to work in.
Great tip. Thanks!
Saved the day! Thanks, Froggy!
Thank you for this video. This nightmare is waiting for me in a day or two when I fix mine.
I have the same gremlins you had fighting you so I know mine will be just as bad. Thanks for the detailed video.
Post how it goes.
it's because of this I replace mine every 5 yrs......Lowes/Homedepot give you the cartridge free of charge.....personally if this happened to me I'd be calling a plumber.
The first trick with the vice grip pliers and the adjustable wrench worked for me! Thanks so much!
Welcome!
Thank you! Between this video and the comments below I was able to get this out with only one exclamation, (the kid thought that was hilarious,) along with a drill & drill bits, a channel locks, needle nose pliers, a regular vise grips, a standard & phillips screwdriver, and the puller. What a royal pain! Cheers!
Excellent!
Even with your TH-cam assist, this was a battle. I have a lot of tools, still Took me 4.5 hrs.
Thanks for the video. Sorry for your blood donation 😮
Congrats you did it!
I had to drill mine out...literally. Used small bits and lots of patience.
I had exactly the same experience.
Yes, tough to get out. :)
Thank you, Froggy! Vice grip needle nose pliers and a crescent tongue and groove pliers allowed me to loosen it and pulled it out!
Good on you.
:)
I had an original moen 1225 that was super old and stuck. I had to tap it and then use a 14 inch bolt and a series of washers and sockets to make a puller and I used the bolt to inch the old cartige up the bolt as I tightened it and it finally came out. It was crusty and nasty. Slipped the new one in and no leaking and worked like a charm. Bought me a bit more time until I have to remodel the bathroom in the mean time the shower is usable.
Stem broke off mine in the on position so we've been 'indoor camping' for a week only turning on the house supply to fill tubs/shower etc while the special tools arrived. I drilled and tapped 3 times starting with 1/4-20 until I got the middle out. Then the giant tap m18 x 1.5 which had taken a while to arrive came to the rescue. I duct taped a 1" hole washer to the end of the pipe so it wouldn't block the cartridge, then a 2.5 lb Olympic style barbell weight to that (used gorilla duct tape), then more washers/giant nuts to get the plastic casing out. Didn't want an access panel in the bedroom or would have just got a plumber to put in a whole new valve. Had to hammer in the new cartridge, it really didn't want to go in. All good now though! Took a whole afternoon. Couldn't have done it without this video! You are awesome!
Wow, that's what I call sticking with it, great job!
:)
Thank you
Thanks - the vice grip and crescent wrench method worked !! Thanks for sharing this !!
I tried the method above but my extractor wasn't big enough so I had to piecemeal the valve apart using needle nose pliers. There is plenty of room to wedge the pliers in without damaging the interior of the valve. I used a Moen replacement. What I learned is that if your handle is getting stiff, replace the valve before it stops functioning or the valve stem breaks!
Good post, thanks.
:)
Wow. They don't make it easy
The most helpful video hands down!!!! Exact same situation and couldn’t have down without this! Thank you 🙏
excellent video brother, I have the exact same set up, same cartridge 1222, this is my second time going at it, first time, 6 years ago, it turned into a can of worms so I'm trying to watch videos so I can refresh my memory as to how to go about it. Your video is on point, it covers a few possibilities so that's a plus; I am now ready for the rematch!
First you help me fix my Vette and now my shower, what a guy, thanks froggy!
Thanks for this video. Similar issue, used your idea use vise grips and an adjustable wrench, and was able to pull loose.
Thank you for sharing the piece about running a tap into the plastic sleeve. I had one stuck yesterday that may have turned into a much larger project had it not been for that, thanks.
Thanks for watching.
:)
OMG Thank you. You just ended 2 days of frustration. I've been installing a replacement shower in a house I just bought, and the damn faucet wouldn't shut off, so the whole upstairs has been without water. My directions from Moen, never mentioned putting the smooth side of the stem in the upper position, and it is brand new, delivered upside down. Whew...Once again, Thank You
Glad to help
Thanks brother..
I was just made aware that our master shower now needs to stem replaced and with vice grips it was not coming out. With your video and steps I now feel like one process or another as you have outlines will make me win on this project.
Great!
Thanks for the great examples and recommendations Froggy! I used your Vise Grip needle nose technique and it did the trick. I also used WD-40 spray and repeatedly dabbed the exposed cartridge with CLR solution to breakdown the mineral scale. Success.
Good work!
:)
I had the same problem as you. The small metal piece broke off, and after that we used needle nose jaw locking pliers to take the inside metal came out, and the plastic stayed inside. Your video showed us to use the tap, but we used a 3/4 national fine thread and it still worked. Thank you so much, you've helped so many people out with this video.
Good thinking!
Thanks for the guidance. I was sweating it when I saw water leaking out of the handle and the shower head. Although my brass rod broke off in the cartridge I was able to use the plastic "tool" that came with the new cartridge. I had to put the broken rod into the plastic to give it some strength before I could use the adjustable wrench. Then I could turn it back and forth and start working it out. Thanks again.
Welcome!
Thanks for the video! Had this exact same problem... the M18 tap killed it! New cartridge in and works smoothly.
Great:)
Great job! So many idiotic handymen out there that end up replacing the entire faucet, thus causing hundreds of dollars. Great job!
We just had the same issue. The cartridge would only come out about a 1/3 of the way. It wasn't going to budge further. After an hour of pulling on the cartridge with the extractor tool, my husband suggested heating the copper pipes with a blowdryer. It worked! It expanded the metal just enough to allow us to pull it out. Just don't electrocute yourself when the water leaks out!
That's a good tip to add to the comments. Thanks.
:)
How long did you have to use the blow-dryer.
@@teejaybee9 I used my heat gun for 30 seconds max.
Your comment saved me. Thank you, kind internet stranger!!
Holy cow! Ours was so stuck! I did what you did with the needle nose vice grips and a large adjustable wrench. The difference in my case was the stem was still intact. That allowed me to grip the plastic very steadily and really pull and wrench. Got the whole part out in one piece. To avoid breaking that white plastic, make sure your stem is back in the cartridge.
Thank you so much for your video. You saved me time and money. Very much appreciated.
Just finished a 2 day disaster. Thanks for the write up. A few additional notes. A m18 tap is not readily available. A 3/4-10 tap was found at Tractor Supply. I hoped to have the same experience as you, where turning the tap caused the cartridge to turn and pull out, it did not. I ended up going back to Tractor Supply and buying 3/4-10 all-thread, 2 washers and 3 nuts. 2 of the nuts were used to make a head to turn in the rod. I was able to use this as a puller and it started to move. The rubber was so badly jammed into the feed holes that i had to pull until it pulled against the washer, then break off plastic until it finally came out all together.
You are a master diy, love the thought process, great job! :)
Great video. I had a similar issue where the brass stem broke off inside the cartridge housing - therefore I couldn't use a standard puller. I had to drill around the circumference of the exposed front portion of the plastic cartrdge housing so I could expose and pull out the inner metal stem. Once that was done I tried the tap as in the video, but the cartrdge still wouldn't come out. The problem with using a tap is that the tap actually tries to expand the diameter of the cartridge - making hold even faster in the bore.
I realized that by using a small flat bladed screw driver I could carefully chisel and crack the plastic cartridge from front to rear - THIS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE ALONG THE TOP EDGE OF THE CARTRIDGE IN CASE YOU SLIP AND KNICK THE BORE. There are no seals involved with the upper surface of the bore, just the sides where the hot and cold water lines enter. Once you have a crack in the cartridge from front to rear, the cartridge diameter lessens and it is easy to collapse it and remove. It leaves a lot of plastic chip debris in the bore, but just turn your water supply back on for a couple of seconds - all clean, and ready for the new cartridge (don't forget the silicon grease) !
Excellent!
I was really hoping I could do this, but I just can't seem to get far enough back. Thanks for the tips though!
What an amazing nightmare! Before we finalized our recent bathroom renovation we decided to go with Grohe instead of Moen and I'm glad we did. There are way too many horror stories frequently alluding to difficulties removing failed Moen cartridges which convinced us to avoid using Moen for our fixtures. Grohe cartridges on the model 19822000 are a joy to repair/maintain/upgrade. Only downside with Grohe designs is the fact they cost 10x what a Moen fixture retails for however you get what you pay for in the long run!
I have had issues with Grohe also, see my video on kitchen Grohe.
Just saw your Grohe kitchen faucet repair and it looks pretty straight forward maintenance. I know both Moen and Grohe offer FREE replacement parts for the life of the fixture provided you have the original invoice/receipt which is a good thing. Nothing lasts forever and this includes American Standard/Grohe/Moen, etc. The key is parts availability especially FREE parts availability. I was a huge champion of American Standard until recently when they started charging for replacement replacement ceramic valve cartridges and this is with me providing pictures of multiple American Standard faucet fixtures clearly showing I was a true consumer of American Standard. When they made it absolutely difficult getting FREE replacement parts I then swore I would go anywhere other than American Standard. My latest favorite is Grohe because of the above issues I've had. I noticed you have very hard water where you reside....me, on the other hand, live in NYC where it's soft water so we don't have mongo calcium and lime issues which make fcuets a nightmare to service. Good videos, Froggy..... keep them coming! @@1947froggy
@@stjoes1231 Good luck, keep me posted, yep VERY hard water deposits.
Wow! As a rookie - I didn't know what the hell was going-on - & then your video popped-up out-of-no-where, at the end some other video, that went easily - I still had my shaft but nothing was budging - I read below about WD-40 or Vinegar - I'm hoping to not have to buy taps…. But you've been a great-help; THANKYOU!
Good luck. :)
@@1947froggy :: Thankyou -- So after your video took the mystery out -- I decided to cutoff the ends of that I-bar -- at the front of the shaft -- this allowed me to turn that valve the 45-degrees -- that the new-valve instructions recommended -- which is supposed to turn the rubber seals away from the hot & cold water intakes -- allowing the valve to slide easily out -- but my valve had one of those seals stuck in the hot-water intake -- but since I was able to now turn the valve -- the valve quickly broke away from it's stuck seal -- & the valve came out! I then had to use a hard-plastic knife -- to clear-out the stuck rubber-seal -- all's good....
FYI :: That thing I'm calling an "I-bar" is the flat, rectangular, eighth-inch thick plastic piece that wedges the valve from rotating....
2nd-FYI :: I use that "hard-plastic knife" -- so as to not put scratches -- inside the brass valve-shaft -- of course you knew that....
3rd-FYI :: These comments are mainly for other rookies like me :: last-one: after freeing the the stuck seal -- there's going to be pieces -- clean with vinegar (& BTW :: WD-40 in your water could be harmful to your heath & to your valve-seals!) -- so after cleaning -- prepare for a-lot of water to rush-out -- then go turn-on the water -- for only a few seconds -- to flush-out those rubber-seal pieces....
Thanks, I spent 9 hours fixing the same issue. After trying a bunch of other suggestions that I found on TH-cam, this was the only one that worked for me. I couldn't find the 18mm X 1.5 tap, so I used the 3/4" SAE. I fit the tap to a cup & ratchet, which got the job done in a few minutes.
Congrats!
Fastest way to remove this cartridge without any tools: Remove retainer clip, turn on water and it will shoot out. Learned this the hard way after installing new cartridge and forgetting to install retainer clip. Thanks for the video!
mrgsalgado lol only of you jave a tile tub mine is all glass
Always have a foil funnel to stick under the valve as you disassemble it. You house will surprise you at how it holds water. Tuck this into the wall under the valve to direct the flow out into the tub..,
You don't want a gallon of water running into the walls behind the valve.
that may work in some situations but sometimes those cartridges can get deposited and build ups that really hold them in .
mrgsalgado that's absolutely correct. The water pressure will force it out. Just make sure to have someone by the main water shut-off valve for you to signal when to shut it off.
Turning on the water didn't budge the cartridge. The removal tool leading edge sheared off when tightening it. Next time I will replace it more often before it welds itself in.
thanks for the video. Same situation with the knob screw stuck broken in the receptacle. The cartridge wouldn't budge at all and the tool from moen is junk. The extraction tool wouldn't work as the screw receptacle had the broken screw piece. Based on the comments below, I heated the pipe and also sprayed with vinegar and WD40. Finally it moved and another hour to pull it out.
Good work!
I owe you and the person you got the idea from a beer. I tried every trick in the book on a 40 year old brass cartridge that was completely corroded and partially busted. I tried turning the water on but the valve did not move. In less than a minute using a tap I had that thing out without any damage. Thank you.
Glad to help.
:)
Dude- I'd give you a hug or buy you a beer or both. You saved me $$$$. I followed all your directions and it came out with a little muscle. THANKS Froggy !!!!
Glad to have helped!
:)
Thank you Froggy. After watching lots of other videos and having a real nightmare getting the inner cartridge out, the outside white casing was left and was not budging. I came across your video and used your trick of using a M18 Tap (and put a wood dowel in 1st just incase the Tap hit the pipe at the end) and it worked. This was the only thing that managed to get the casing out. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Glad you got it the ez out tap works every time & no damage.
I usually get to the point where the stem breaks off,I stop and tell the customer I recommend cutting out the old valve and installing a new Delta valve. I can install a new valve in 1.5 hours as opposed to 3 hours drilling out the old Moen cartridge.
Thx so much, froggy! This is so helpful. So I have much harder situation to deal with, the cartridge (plastic part) stuck so bad that it broke in half when I pull. As far as the 18mm Pipe Tap (aka Spark Plug Tap), only place available is Amazon and took 2 days to arrive. I'm from AZ, no luck finding it at HomeD, Lowes. I found 3/4" tap at AceH but too big. I ordered 16mm w/Amazon one day and it was too small. It HAS to be 18mm! Finally the 18mm arrived after 2 days without water. The item name on Amazon is called: Vermont American 21164 18MM-1.50 High Carbon Steel Metric Spark Plug Tap ($12). Thanks again Froggy!!
Thanks!
Literally put blood sweat and tears into that job! Makes it that much more satisfying when you get it. Just changed mine but was different and much easier
Glad if I helped a little. :)
Thank you! I had this same problem and thanks to you I was able to get the cartridge out and the new one in there. Thank you from my family!
great!
Thank you very much !! I have the same problem where the stem has broken from the cartridge (thus the extraction tool that I bought along with the replacement cartridge does me no good).
I haven't attempted to remove the cartridge yet using the needlenose method shown at the beginning. My questions:
- Does the water need to be shut off? I can't find the shutoff for the shower, but can turn off the main.
- In the Moen video, it says the existing valve should be open (as in, the shower should be turned on) prior to removing the cartridge. Don't see how I could do that given the circumstances. Should I just attempt to pull it out anyway?
- To remove the existing cartridge (and avoid breaking it during the extraction), could I not use some lubricant like WD40 or similar? Any reason why I shouldn't spray it down?
Shut off water MAIN, wd won't do much.
Thank you, Froggy!
Very happy to help. :)
You are the G.O.A.T.
I was fortunate that I was able to get a good enough grip with the vise grip that I was able to pull it out without crushing the plastic. Heating the pipe with a butane lighter and lots of WD-40 also helped. No need for the tap.
Excellent work!
I still have to remove the other piece of the broken stem that is attached to the handle. After lots of vinegar and then WD-40, I was able to remove the screws that fastens the stem to the handle, but brute force alone couldn't budge the piece. Any suggestions? Is there any sort of expander that I can use to push it out rather than trying to pull it out?
@@atl1276 Just all the methods in the video & read all the comments, might be a tip there. :)
Just wanted to post a big thank you for this video, froggy. There was another video that was helpful by uk7769 but this video showed the exact same issue I was dealing with. The shower handle snapped off at the copper valve so nothing was there to grab on to.
I had to screw in two floor screws (dry wall screws would work too) in the white
plastic parts on either side and yank on them with a vice grip. That got the first portion out. I then barely managed to grip onto the end of the remaining copper valve with a needle nose vice grip. Yanked forever. Finally the core came out. Then is was tap time.
The M18x1.5 tap worked great. Thank you for sharing the exact size. This bit was not
easy to find. Had to get it from an industrial store called "Bolts" up here. None of the big box store around here had anything close to the same size. Tapped it no problem but mine didn't want to turn while tapping it like yours did. So I had to use a tip mentioned in uk7769's video that uses a matching bolt with massive 3/4" washers. Turned until it wouldn't anymore and then kept turning and pulling. It came out
slowly, in three parts. I kept tapping further as it was breaking off in pieces. Finally it was out.
Rubbed the inside down with steel wool and lime cleaner. Replacing the new cartridge was not problem. Just slipped right in. But then I had the issue of the broken cartridge valve stuck inside the shower lever. I thought I could just go buy a new one. Can't be that expensive right? That shower handle alone is $50!!! Just the handle. Nothing else. I decided to try and salvage mine.
Soaked it in CLR for like 2 hours. Took a vice grip to the copper valve that was stuck to it and started wiggling. Heated up the innards with a blow dryer too periodically. Finally the inner black part comes out. This reveals a screw on the inside that hold the copper valve in place and snug to the black plastic part inside the handle. Unscrewed that and it still didn't want to come out. Soaked in CLR another hour. Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle, heat heat heat, pops right now. $50 saved.
What an ordeal we have to go through just because of such a stupid design. Thank
you once again froggy for posting this video. If your shower handle snaps at the stem valve, this is the video to watch. Be prepared for a battle.
Btw, the moen cartridge is covered under warranty. Just take it once it is out to Home Depot or whatever and they will give you a new one for free.
Glad to help.
:)
Thanks! I wound up not needing to go that far but thank you all the same
Glad it was easier for you.
:)
I couldn't get leverage to pull mine out at all, despite using every tool in my arsenal. I finally screwed a 2" screw into the plastic near the side. My thought was to use that to help pull on, but as I screwed it in, it started pushing the cartridge out! Still not sure how that happened. I was then able to get the vice grips on the whole thing and pull it out slowly (still took 10 mins!). No damage done... In my case, the rubber parts of the existing cartridge had expanded into the slits of the pipe, making it almost impossible to pull out. What a royal pain in the arse! Thanks for your video though, it gave me enough info to come up with the screw idea!
Glad the video helped & you were successful!
:)
Well after struggling for a couple hours using the Moen tap removal tool, I've broken off the stem and ended up drilling holes like you mentioned to pull out the center piece, but now I have the plastic stuck and no 18mm tap for at least 3 days (amazon). Do I rely on that to save me, or do I call a plumber and pay ~$300 to come out and fix it in 2 days?
I'd wait & use another shower if available.
Had the same problem. Luckily it’s now solved
Thank you very much..... I was struggling with it until I saw your video.
Welcome!
2 hours yesterday dealing with the same nightmare!! I eventually used a micro torch to heat the plastic. Cmon Moen... better design??? Lol
I agree.
Very difficult to service.
:)
I used the Moen removal tool and after lots of trying I extracted the metal interior. I then had to chisel away the external plastic, taking my time. I have read that applying heat softens the rubber and you can then extract it via standard methods. Will try the heat method next time....
Here is MY lengthy discussion of how I removed TWO of these cartridges.
So, it's amazing to me that this vid has been posted online for 4 months and ALREADY has 19,014 views. And there are many other vids on youtube showing how folks got the cartridge out. What a crap situation by Moen that there is so much discussion on this subject, no?
My prob is in 2 showers, one failed last year and we just stopped using that shower. But now, with two showers down (and one leaking), I had to address. As appears in your situation, BOTH shower handle stems broke - so Moen extractor tool won't work, nothing to screw into. I acknowledge the stem breaks likely has to do with our acidic well water not being properly treated and so the metal rusted and fatigued away, but there must still be thousands of issues with these valves/cartridges, no?! $40 replacement cartridge at HD - perhaps it's the nature of the beast, or perhaps they are making money.
I note a slightly diff design on new Positemp 1222 cartridge: thicker stem metal (presumably so it won't break off as easily), and no rear o-ring (presumably so it doesn't get stuck in there as before).
While the face of my valve/cartridge looked like yours, my needle nose (like you show) were tearing away at the white plastic - not enough to grip onto and I was afraid of completely breaking the white plastic apart by chewing into and distorting it. So, I bought pliers with a wider teeth grip but less rounded crown than some other pliers I had, which wouldn't fit into the tight space. I then did still have to use a grinding wheel to grind (thin) the backside of these pliers crown so the tip of (wider than needle-nose) pliers could fit between the round metal and the thin white plastic of the cartridge. (On 2nd thought... Moen supplies in the new 1222 box a white plastic "tool" which is designed to be used to get a grip on the tip of the cartridge - without a slot for the stem to stick thru, clearly a note that their stems always break off. But this plastic is soft and could break apart under pressure. They could make things easier by either making this out of HARD plastic, or metal!!! There is one vid out there where the guy says using it works 99% of the time, another where the guy says it breaks apart. Since I had already modified my pliers, and upon 1st try with the soft plastic part, I didn't try - I wanted to SEE what success I might be having and this "tool" would obscure my view... I didn't want to risk busting the tip of the cartridge apart, lest I be forced to go with the "tap" extraction method, per another video or two.)
Now that I had a better grip with my modified pliers, I pulled and pulled straight back, but it wouldn't slide out. I wasn't successful until I saw YOUR video suggestion of GETTING LEVERAGE BY CREATING A HANDLE with a 2nd pair of pliers (or channel locks/whatever) TO TWIST FIRST and break grip of whatever was holding it back AND THEN PULL BACK. Thank you so much. It ended up twisting and sliding out with 1/10th the muscle/weight I had previously put into pulling straight back.
It seems that the cartridge wouldn't initially slide straight out (on both showers) because one of the two black rubber patches had become entangled in the intersecting water supply line hole, and so only by twisting could it completely tear off of the cartridge, duck into the supply hole, and then slide out. I then simply had to use standard needle nose pliers on both and pull the black plastic out. I was lucky in that it didn't tear and get stuck in there to the side. Had that happened, I would have turned the H2O supply back on and hoped it would have blasted out under pressure, but that would have been a wet mess.
Anyways, the guys who suggested drilling into the cartridge with a "tap" set, or a screw, and then use that as leverage to pull, had a solution that was more complicated than yours. I didn't want to have to mess with that, and so tried yours first.
So, THANK YOU!
It's April 2020, this is where I'm at right now.
Super, thank you.
Thanks your video. Recently I have a same issue, from your video I know how to use M18x1.5 tap to take plastic sleeve out, I still want to know how did you pull the stem (metal material)out before tapping plastic part? Thanks
IIRC a needle nose vise grip.
Thanks
We followed dyour instructions to replace our broken Moen valve catridge in our shower. We know that the new valve cartridge is more flow restricted than the one we removed, which was probably at least 20 years old. The problem we have now is that the water flow is REALLY radically restricted with the new valve cartridge.
We have removed the new cartridge several times, checking to make sure it is placed correctly in the receptical. But still our water flow is at 1 gallon per minute - no more.
Is this normal??
No there is something more (wrong) with the install, remove and have a critical look at what else it may be. Is there a REMOVABLE restrict orifice?
Thanks for the excellent details and humor!
Thanks.
:)
3hrs and change to change the cartridge you worked on!!
Going to need a 24pack then
🌲👽🌲
i'm about to tackle this on a 15 year old house shower once I get the replacement piece. wish me luck!
will be caution and patient and saturate it with wd-40 first
also the reason i'm changing it is because i turn it to hot but it's only hot for a few seconds then get cold (sink beside it in same room has hot no prob), this part will fix that right?
Post back how it goes. :)
@@1947froggy cartridge has been there since house was built, can I get a replacement from Moen?
@@rickytruong5994 Probably yes, you need the part number, which may mean you need to take it out 1st.
I know. Without use for a few days.
@@1947froggy oh i'm taking an educated guess and going with 1222 because there's the plastic head, the 1225 has an all brass head. i bought the puller too just in case. pretty sure it's gonna be a b to take out and will probably have to tap it and extract it. I also called moen but they don't want to answer the phone and have a crappy automated message that forces you to hang up lol.
@@rickytruong5994 Good luck, let me know how it goes, Moen service is crap.
Thanks froggy. The way you showed using the tap tool was helpful along with the warnings about not scoring
marks in the receptacle where cartridge goes
Welcome, this is one of my favorite "McGyver's"
:)
Brass brush works great I found a long one and cut the end it fit right on my drill
I had the same problem about 6 years ago, with the stem breaking off and the center pulling out with nothing left but the outer plastic shell, I watched a TH-cam video of a plumber taking a hacksaw blade and very carefully cutting the shell without cutting into the the brass pipe, so I went ahead and used that method and cut into about three different places to take the cartridge apart being careful not to cut into the brass , it took me about three days working off and on until I finally got it out. What happened in my situation was the flat rubber pieces on the sides went out of place and got wedged between the pipe and the cartridge making it impossible to pull the cartridge out.
Thanks for adding info!
We used a drill bit to get our delta cartridge out because it was stuck like cement. I think we damaged the valve because now the shower head leaks when the water is off. I heard you say if you damaged the valve it may leak but since ours is leaking from the shower head, do you think it still could be do to the scratches in the valve?
Could be yes, the brass will scratch pretty easy, could also be a rubber part that got cut on installation, sorry it did not come out right, putting another one in should be easy as the hard work & learning is already done, if your water is $$$ I would give it another shot. Froggy
THANK YOU! This was the only thing that worked. You saved my shower.
So glad to be of help, good work.
:)
Thanks for saving me on this one!
Glad to help Nicholas, I do these to help everyone out. :)
I just suffered the same problem before watching the video. You did have a good way.
Glad to help😁
Yesterday I removed a cartridge lacking the all important stem. Drilling, broken bits, tapping, etc. finally it all came out (first the core, then the plastic sheath). Unfortunately the drill bits want to track to the outside of the cartridge (stem and other metal in center). I thought I was staying away from the cartridge wall, but I did not account for the barrel narrowing. I scored the wall slightly beyond the outermost o-ring. You really can’t know until it’s too late. Despite a thorough greasing, the shower head dribbles when handle in off position. Rather than an extensive, expensive rough valve replacement, I placed a $6 on/off valve at the proximal end of the shower head/wand. Possibly it could still be a single knob activation of shower head flow, but it might have to be both knobs. TODAY I’M WONDERING IF AN “AH SO” TYPE CORK SCREW WOULD HAVE WORKED!!!??? Google if not familiar.
I can't picture that corkscrew working, but never know til someone tries. Please post if you do!
This helped! Mine was stuck. One the side gaskets had deteriorated and made extraction really tough.
thank you your the best.
I just replaced my moen, it was ten years old and stuck in there good. My shaft as you called it, did break off as did half of the cartridge. The remains were left in the pipe. I couldn't get it out and I was tipped by a friend to use a torch. This way you'll melt the plastic and free the cartridge. You'll still have to give the remaining piece of the cartridge to release the suction but when it's out, then all you have to do is chisel out the plastic. It isn't that hard and does no damage to the pipe whatsoever.
Thanks for the tip, gotta be CAREFUL with a torch, eh?
:)
I wonder if an elec heat gun might do it?
i experienced the same thing.. unfortunately then i break it into pieces and clear the way for new cartridge.
I just replaced the guts of an old (23 years) Moen shower valve today using the 1222 cartridge. Of course, the old cartridge didn't want to come out. This necessitated the use of a cartridge puller as well as the plastic "tool" that comes with the Moen 1222. My old cartridge left one of its rubber gaskets in the hot water port of the valve body. I used a dental pick to pull that bad boy out. This is why it's a good idea to closely inspect the valve body after the cart is pulled. When cleaning the valve body, I used an AR15 upper receiver brush (brass). This brush fits pretty well...yet is small enough to allow for the wrapping of some 400 or 600 grit sanding mesh around it if necessary. The new cartridge went in well except for the last 1/8" or so. By using the plastic tool that came with the new cart I was able to slightly rotate the new valve body back and forth while pushing. This did the trick. Also...the new cart didn't have an o-ring at the rear. The old one did. I noticed that the groove at the rear of new cart wasn't as wide as that of the old and probably couldn't support an o-ring, so I installed without an o-ring at the rear. So far; so good.
I recall that the new one does not have the oring you mention, mine is fine so far.
:)
I can't believe they wanted almost $50.00 at Menards. I found a plumbing supply place in my area and got the cartridge for $24 and the handle for about $9.00.
I extract those broken plugs out in less than 30 minutes, drill two holes around the outer plastic , do not drill your close to the outer edge. Put in two rods and turn the stuck plug out, done lots of them. The last one took me less than fifteen minutes. Bingo!!!!! Good example to help some.
What the difference between 1222 and 1225B? We have a single Moen shower/tub that is leaking and need to get the part.
1222 just turns counter clockwise.....1225 is push and pull for pressure/left & right for hot and cold
Glad this helped everyone else, as for me, not so lucky as I will have to rip out the entire tile and backer-board and replace the whole fixture and either go broke or learn how to solder copper. Why? I damaged the soft brash copper because the cartridge broke apart while trying to pull it out. Before breaking it apart I tried first drilling and tapping trying to be careful. But in the end, no such luck because the plastic had to be broken apart piece by piece. After that I surveyed the damage and sure and enough that brass is soft and it gouged in multiple areas leaving a leak path. Unfortunately, now I have a permanent drip which warrants demolishing the entire shower wall. Hope others have better luck but this is 2020. This was only 6 years old Moen. Bummer.
Sorry you had to do that. :)
@@1947froggy I'm not giving up just yet. Although there are gouges and scratches, its possible (long shot) that there not where the o-ring seats. The trouble is, i got the cartridge half way in , and realized it was in the wrong position. I pulled it out slightly, rotated and pushed it into place. I may have damaged the seal doing so. So I guess I'll try another cartridge before tearing down the wall and tile.
@@pointvicente123 Worth a try, also MAYBE you can smooth/polish/fine sand the gouges - but it might not work, just brainstorming.
@@1947froggy it worked like a champ with a new cartridge. The other one had been slightly damaged enough to be causing the drip. Polished the inside with steal wool. Blasted water before installing to ensure it was clean and now no leak. Thank God!
@@pointvicente123 Way to go!!!
I had exactly the same problem with the stem broken off. I applied heat with a hair dryer for about ten minutes and used needle nose pliers with the jaw open to rotate the stuck cartridge by the jaws hitting the sides of the plastic to give it torque. (Sort of like a spanner wrench) once I got it to move a little, then I shot it with WD-40 and continued to rotate around an it got easier. Then pried on plastic as rotating and it slowly came out. Slow process that took about 30 minutes, but I don’t think it would have worked without heating.
Excellent
LIFE saver ........ what a frustrating job without the correct tools... the tap saved the day.
Thanks for viewing!
:)
You are a lifesaver!!!
Glad to help.
:)
Worked like a charm.
Great!
Hi, nice video! Do you have the link to the video from the other person that showed the use of the tap? I couldn’t find it in your description or the comments. Thanks!
Sorry no, just search YT
I had a 8 hour struggle with a 1222 shower/tub faucet that had been in for 25 years. I hadn't seen any of these TH-cam videos or looked at the Moen Removal Tool. I had just read the instructions and it looked like a breeze. Wrong. First the set screw in the handle was frozen. The hex key (allen wrench) stripped out the inside of the hex socket before the set screw moved at all. Fine, I'll just drill it out, I thought. I drill it out and I keep having to drill bigger and bigger... finally it lets go. Remove the phillips screw behind the handle, take off the two pieces that go behind the handle that limit the rotation. Remove the sleeve that keeps leaks from going behind the wall.
I put the little white plastic piece that comes with the kit on the cartridge and try to turn it 45º clockwise. It doesn't want to turn, it springs back to the straight up position. The plastic piece feels like it wants to break. I push in hard while turning the plastic piece and it reluctantly begins to move and come out about 1/8". I put my pliers on the stem and start yanking. I yank harder. No go. I yank HARDER. The stem breaks off. Great! Now what? I'm thinking... huuummmm? Slide Hammer to the rescue. I drill a hole in the center where the stem broke off and thread it for a screw that I can connect to my slide hammer. Bang. Bang, bang, Bang, BANG, *BANG!* the valve guts come out just like Froggy had happen. *CRAP!* Now what?
I'm tempted to take a hack saw blade to the plastic housing that is still stuck in there... but that would be a bad move Newton. You scratch the inside of that brass housing and you will be calling a plumber to sweat in (solder in) a whole new shower faucet. If I tried to do it I would probably set the house on fire before I got a leak-less fitting... or I'd end up having to re-tile the shower/tub enclosure. What else can I do to yank that thing out?
I didn't think of the tap or easy-out idea. That's a pretty good idea. My brain fart idea was to find a large bolt and screw it in with JB Weld to hold it tight. I roughed up the inside of the plastic cartridge sleeve to help the JB Weld stick to it. I measured the hole size. A 5/8" bolt was slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the cartridge sleeve. Off to Homeless Despot and got a 7 inch long 5/8" bolt and some quick setting JB Weld. Mixed it up. Pushed some cloth into the hole first to make sure the JB Weld wouldn't goop up the inside of the brass housing and ruin it. Gooped up the inside of the cartridge and the threads on the bolt, pushed it in and waited for 3 hours while it set up nice and hard.
It still didn't want to come out as I beat on it with my metal weapons of destruction. I finally figured out that twisting it more may help free up the long rubber outer seals that were preventing the removal. I had seen them when I looked down the throat of the cartridge sleeve before. They were stuck in the feed ports and were preventing the extraction. The rotating finally worked, breaking the rubber seals and the plastic sleeve started moving with my hammering. Finally got out the sleeve. Whew! I looked inside and saw the remains of the rubber seals poking out of the feed ports in the body. I tried yanking them out with needle nose pliers but that didn't work. I finally got them out with some Dental Hygienists picks I have. I throughly cleaned out the housing and lubed it with silicone grease. Screw that silicone oil. I want a fighting chance next time... if I'm still kicking. The rest is easy. What a pain. I really didn't know if that thing was going to come out. I'm glad to know it wasn't just me. Everyone has this problem. Hope this info helps someone. I didn't find this until the day after the ordeal. I have one more in the Master Bathroom that will probably start dripping tomorrow. Now I know a few other tricks to help me along. Thanks to all the great ideas posted here. Cheers Froggy!
P.S. I really like the heat gun idea. Definitely going to use that one. The water here isn't very hard. There was no mineral buildup on my faucet. The main problem was the outside rubber on the plastic cartridge sticking to the inside of the brass cartridge housing. I replaced the old plastic cartridge with the more expensive brass bodied cartridge and generously lubed it up with silicone grease.
Great write up, thanks for adding it to comments, these buggers are real challenge to replace & you need the tricks, the recommended removal process is a joke.
Froggy
@@1947froggy Wish I had seen this before I had a go at it. I would have fired up the heat gun and gotten that thing out quick. Thanks again....
@@marscruz Thank YOU.
:)
I'm twice as lucky as you. I have two showers with broken off stems. I fixed one with slightly less hassle than you encountered. The second one has been out of commission for awhile so I'm hoping it hasn't seized up as bad as the one in this video. 🤞
Hopefully not used as much means not as corroded with hard water deposits. :)