Not 'missing' as much as 'hidden' is the 'logic' of duality. Bilateral association of good and evil. Without taking from ths tree, we could have no moral compass or ability to judge. Man was appointed once to die, Adam kept that appointment. THEN the 'judgement'. You cannot be expected to be able to judge or make decisions until you have the knowledge to be able to contrast right and wrong. The 'keys' arenfound right here... in Isaiah 45:7. "I form light and I create darkness. I make peace and I create evil: I the Lord do ALL these things."
Would the Torah of YHWH not reflect the words written in the "Covenant of YHWH"? Are they the same or is the Torah YHWH an expanded version of the Covenant YHWH i.e. the Ten Words / Sayings / Proclamations)? Excellent class... as usual. Thanks
@RossKNickholsTV Urim and Thummim Thank you for the question What are Urim and Thummim. I'm now thinking about it. My initial vision was of an hour glass(when I say hour glass I mean two wooden cones attached at there central thinnest points- that look like a wooden thin hour glass). And then of two half spinning Crescent moons connected at the ends. I just did a little research and the book the twin towers by Tolkien in Yiddish is called the Di tsvey turems Yiddish edition by J.R.R. Tolkien. My Guess is that the Urim and Thummim were two separate items that were attached together, making one Item. Like a stick. One end points to yes the other points to No. Urim and Thummim the yes and the no. Maybe when used it doesn't point in either way. When saul stood on one side and soldiers stood on the other side, if the Urim and Thummim pointed between them, not indicating one or the other it's a non reply. This is my best guess so far although I've only been considering it since your lecture finished a few minutes ago. Urim and Thummim Two towers one points yes the other no, they are stuck together as a stick. How they were made, was probably under a ceremony. maybe they were intentionally kept separate so the Yes and no don't contaminate, only being put together when asking a directon. A clear no one way a clear yes for the other. My best guess so far Or Urim was a stand that the Thummim was placed upon to spin Urim was a stand of two crescent moons attached by a pin. A VAV That the Thummim that looked like an Hour glass rested upon, to spin. It falls off while spinning no answer, it points between no answer. My current best guess And I suppose if you placed it in front of you and ask a question, Which ever end points at you either yes or no when it stops spinning- that is your answer
So anyway, maybe 2 flat pieces of metal shaped like a crescent moon wouldn't be enough for a stand, maybe you would need 3, but they could be folded up into one Cresent moon. Easily stored. I guess they would be as big or small as you wanted to make them, but if they fit into the Priestly breast plate they couldn't be that big. Maybe the pin is what attached the Urim to the breast plate. The crescent moon is an extremely important symbol it marks the new year and the start of each month. Having one on the breast plate makes sense to me. If it was also used as a stand for the Thummim to spin upon, that makes sense to me also.
So this is my current best guess The Urim was a stand made of Three flat pieces of mental shaped like a Cresent moon, a pin held them together on one side, that pin allowed them to be attached to the breast plate of the priest. When asking a question, the priest removes the Urim from his breast plate opens it up, lays in on the floor as a stand. Then adds the Thummim by placing it on the pin that held urim to the breast plate, and spin's it. One side of the Thummim points yes the other No. Ask and you shall receive
But it could be the other way round in the vision I had the hour glass tower the Thummim didn't move the moons did. It could be that the tower is placed on the floor, and the two crescent moons represent yes and no. They spin on the tower using the pin. Like a spinning top. It's the same idea a yes and a no spinning and pointing. Although the first idea seems more stable then the second
Actual the second idea is more stable. If the Thummim is a tower with a hole in the top, that the pin fits in. Then when the Urim it's not spinning it should be completely balanced, two small half moons, one indicating yes the other no, held by a pin. Like a spinning top, doesn't fall over because it's held in the hole at the top of the Thummim. When you spin them they keep moving until they stop. My latest best guess
really? so much is made up story line and defies historical records of others and in the ground archeology.. I think the issue is what should NOT be in the Bible. Onediscipletoanother
Outstanding. Very thought provoking. So many good questions for personal study. Thank you for sharing your studies!
Not 'missing' as much as 'hidden' is the 'logic' of duality. Bilateral association of good and evil.
Without taking from ths tree, we could have no moral compass or ability to judge.
Man was appointed once to die, Adam kept that appointment. THEN the 'judgement'. You cannot be expected to be able to judge or make decisions until you have the knowledge to be able to contrast right and wrong.
The 'keys' arenfound right here... in Isaiah 45:7.
"I form light and I create darkness. I make peace and I create evil: I the Lord do ALL these things."
Would the Torah of YHWH not reflect the words written in the "Covenant of YHWH"? Are they the same or is the Torah YHWH an expanded version of the Covenant YHWH i.e. the Ten Words / Sayings / Proclamations)? Excellent class... as usual. Thanks
The apocrypha
@RossKNickholsTV
Urim and Thummim
Thank you for the question What are Urim and Thummim.
I'm now thinking about it.
My initial vision was of an hour glass(when I say hour glass I mean two wooden cones attached at there central thinnest points- that look like a wooden thin hour glass). And then of two half spinning Crescent moons connected at the ends.
I just did a little research and the book the twin towers by Tolkien in Yiddish is called the
Di tsvey turems Yiddish edition by J.R.R. Tolkien.
My Guess is that the Urim and Thummim were two separate items that were attached together, making one Item. Like a stick.
One end points to yes the other points to No.
Urim and Thummim the yes and the no. Maybe when used it doesn't point in either way.
When saul stood on one side and soldiers stood on the other side, if the Urim and Thummim pointed between them, not indicating one or the other it's a non reply.
This is my best guess so far although I've only been considering it since your lecture finished a few minutes ago.
Urim and Thummim
Two towers one points yes the other no, they are stuck together as a stick.
How they were made, was probably under a ceremony.
maybe they were intentionally kept separate so the Yes and no don't contaminate, only being put together when asking a directon.
A clear no one way a clear yes for the other.
My best guess so far
Or
Urim was a stand that the
Thummim was placed upon to spin
Urim was a stand of two crescent moons attached by a pin. A VAV
That the Thummim that looked like an Hour glass rested upon, to spin.
It falls off while spinning no answer, it points between no answer.
My current best guess
And I suppose if you placed it in front of you and ask a question, Which ever end points at you either yes or no when it stops spinning- that is your answer
So anyway, maybe 2 flat pieces of metal shaped like a crescent moon wouldn't be enough for a stand, maybe you would need 3, but they could be folded up into one Cresent moon. Easily stored.
I guess they would be as big or small as you wanted to make them, but if they fit into the Priestly breast plate they couldn't be that big.
Maybe the pin is what attached the Urim to the breast plate.
The crescent moon is an extremely important symbol it marks the new year and the start of each month.
Having one on the breast plate makes sense to me.
If it was also used as a stand for the Thummim to spin upon, that makes sense to me also.
So this is my current best guess
The Urim was a stand made of Three flat pieces of mental shaped like a Cresent moon, a pin held them together on one side, that pin allowed them to be attached to the breast plate of the priest.
When asking a question, the priest removes the Urim from his breast plate opens it up, lays in on the floor as a stand.
Then adds the Thummim by placing it on the pin that held urim to the breast plate, and spin's it.
One side of the Thummim points yes the other No.
Ask and you shall receive
I kinda see Saul spinning it 3 times and getting no answer, then saying "3 times now no answer, who has sinned here?"
But it could be the other way round in the vision I had the hour glass tower the Thummim didn't move the moons did.
It could be that the tower is placed on the floor, and the two crescent moons represent yes and no.
They spin on the tower using the pin. Like a spinning top.
It's the same idea a yes and a no spinning and pointing.
Although the first idea seems more stable then the second
Actual the second idea is more stable.
If the Thummim is a tower with a hole in the top, that the pin fits in.
Then when the Urim it's not spinning it should be completely balanced, two small half moons, one indicating yes the other no, held by a pin. Like a spinning top, doesn't fall over because it's held in the hole at the top of the Thummim.
When you spin them they keep moving until they stop.
My latest best guess
The greek captivity of the israelites
really? so much is made up story line and defies historical records of others and in the ground archeology.. I think the issue is what should NOT be in the Bible.
Onediscipletoanother