Sometimes poker is about limiting the damage. Here's how it could've played out: - Raise to $60 pre-flop, get called. - Bet 1/2 pot ($65), get called. - Check back on the turn. - Make a value bet (~$100-150) on the river, the other guy pushes all-in, you fold. So you would lose maybe $250 on the hand instead of stacking the guy.
DanielSong39 How could the hero "value bet" the river when he's not first to act? Zero chance villain checks 2 straight streets with quads. Has to make some money if turn goes check check
If the villain makes a value bet you call and lose another ~$100-150; if he shoves you fold and cut your losses short further. So the result would be pretty similar; a smaller loss.
This player didn't understand the effect that stack size have on you actions on poker. You're not suppose to lose 400bb with pocket pairs that never got stronger.
If I'm sitting with KK and that flop hits, I hate my hand straight away. . Agree with most of comments here, you simply cannot call thar shove on the river. I've been in this situation before and always regretted it. Just shows how difficult some players find it to get away from KK, AA holdings.
Similar scenario just happened online poker to me. I had J,Q, the RIVER was J,9,7,7,J, we both went All in, and the opponent ended up having a pair of 7's, so he had 7,7,7,7 and won. The odds were heavily stacked against him getting that hand and winning against my triple Js.
The other time I folded KK on the turn, same board and it was my 1st hand at the table, I never played with the opp before. He had a flush draw and was betting it heavily. Most likely there will be a Q with that aggressive line so i decided not to punish myself too much for that.
I would have folded that shit on the turn. He's right. Too many hands can beat you at that spot. At least 4 out of 5 times in a spot like that, he's got you beat.
You must adjust the strength of your hand based on your opponent's range. Sure you have kings. You have an overpair. Most of the time when a ton of money goes into the pot at low stakes, a single pair is crushed. In this case, villain's range includes a lot of queens. The fact that 2 flop would immediately make me want to pot control.
Problem is even if he bet large preflop, pocket QQ will still call. Still with a connected board like that, 1 pair is not enough. If someone bets on a board like that I will fold KK, thingking I'm facing at least 2 pairs or set,
That turn raise at live low stakes in the US is pretty much never a bluff. I'd just much snap fold and make it seem like I wiffed with AK. There is SOOO much money to be made by these extreme exploits. There goes enough hourly win to account for 3 sessions. :/
Agreed. There are essentially zero live 1/2 players that can checkraise the turn as a bluff or semibluff. I wouldn't even bother doing it because players like the one in the video just call you down when they should fold.
It's not much of an exploit if you b/fold kk in this spot. What's your range for betting this turn? I'd bet significantly smaller otf, but as played, I'd probably bet AA/KK/any Q/TT, any flushdraw (not too many of these in my range due to preflopaction), KJ. If we get c/raised, we obv continue with every Q. We continue with TT. We also have to add a few combodraws, KJss, J9ss, that's enough already imo. Gotta count combos, maybe we should add AA as well, but KK is a fold. You're not even making an exploitable one, it's pretty standard imo. We also don't have Kc. Makes KcQc possible. Just dump those kings.
This exact hand happened to me on Saturday at a 1-3 table haha flush draw and all. Your explanation of why he really isnt bluffing on the river after you call the turn could have saved me some money .
I like how you make a good case for folding the turn then immediately say calling the turn is fine but then make sure to fold any river bet he leads with. Take a stand man, that was a dumb turn call.
I agree. If you face that checkraise on the turn, its time to realize, it was a mistake to bet twice, and just cut your losses. Maybe he is bluffing sometimes, but you cant give action, because you have a hand, which should not even be in your range at this point.
I agree with Alec pre flop 3 bet too small. The problem with a lot of these hands is there is not enough info on the villain to make an accurate recommendation. The check raise on the turn is SO Strong. I would estimate that only 5- 10% of all poker players could make that move without at least a Queen. With the little info we have I think the turn check raise is an easy fold.
You could check the flop. Your hand doesn't need much protection. And his raise-call range has qq, kqs, aqo, qjs, etc. In it. You probably can only extract one street from JJ. What is his plan if he holds JJ out of position? Call you down and hope you have ak? However he might bet jj to protect it if you give him some rope.
I'm a low stakes amateur player. The only time I play at 420 bb is when I'm in a super deep stacked tournament. My call behind range is much bigger than my 3 bet range. I feel that 3 betting gives away the strength of my hands and my 3 bet range doesn't play as well after the flop. So when I'm playing 420 bb is ok to flat call with KK there? My thinking is in deep stack poker the goal is to flop a monster and if KK doesn't improve then it becomes a bluff catcher and maybe you can value bet on later streets because your hand is disguised. And I would like to mention when I'm not playing a deep stack game I'm 3 betting there.
Totally agree preflop, I'm 4xing his bet to 60. And agree with both of the other two mistakes. Calling checkraise on turn, clear mistake, calling shove on the river another mistake. I totally agree. Excellent video!
II agree with you, I would just check on the turn, clearly the guy has a strong hand after calling bet on the flop. (AA, AQ, or a set I would think). I would even check on the river or fold on a bet!
Quick question, when the flop comes Q Q 7 (2 spades) if he checks and you bet $50, what if he goes all in? What do you do? Insta fold or call the all in? It's hands like this that really confuse me.
@Alec agreed on pre flop 3bet, but what about going for a delayed c bet on the turn instead? Although it gives an Ace a free draw there are tons more safe cards than danger ones. More often you'll be playing for a smaller pot on the river with a one pair type hand, and villain has a chance to catch up and call 2 streets with worse like K/J/T/9/8 maybe even 7 on the turn.
That turn raise is always a nutted hand from any player but a complete maniac. There are 0 reasonable bluffs here, I think this line is usually a Q or a boat.
Bluffing can surely work at micro stakes. But bluffing into someone, who has shown nothing but strength, is pretty suicidal in general. So you dont want to pick a spot like this, where you are trying to get someone off a massive spot, after he 3-bet preflop, C-bet the flop and C-bet the turn. But check-raising the flop in a single raised pot, when you defended your blind against a mid or late position open, will get the job done a massive amount of the time. Its almost to the point, where you feel, you have to do it with your sets to range balance, and not the other way around :-)
With 3 limpers in front of him 6X is actually a bit to small in my opinion. I would usually pump it up to 8X in that situation, betting about twice what it is the pot already. If you go smaller than that, you often invite a very multiway pot in this kind of limp-fest games. And since you are only going to have strong value hands in this situation, you might as well make it a bit bigger and really punish all those limpers.
3x+(1BB per person) is what I myself use and a lot of people use as well, online. I'd imagine people should go even bigger live, due to people being more calling-stationy (fishier on average) and being deeper as well. So 8x sounds good to me indeed, but 6x is fine as well. Not huge in any sense IMO.
I read about the 3X + 1 BB per limper as well and used it, when I started playing online poker. But the problem with it is, that as the number of limpers grow, you will be giving particularly the last one to react a better and better price. And I dont see any theoretical merit in that. So what I do these days is to use another simple to remember rule, which I made myself. I count, how much is already in the pot, and then I bet twice that amount or slightly less. So against 2 limpers, I usually bet 6 BB, against 3 its usually 8 BB, and against 4 its usually 10 BB. Yes 10 BB is large as an open raise. But there is already 5,5 BB in the middle, so my risk-reward is better, than if I bet 10 BB as a 3-bet into a pot, where someone opened it to 3 BB, and there is only 4,5 BB in the middle. I go this large, because I really want to punish the limpers. I want to avoid creating a multiway pot, and I am totally cool, if I just pick up the 5,5 BB uncontested with a hand like AK or QQ. No hand is invincible, and if people want to voluntarely put extra blinds into the pot and then still not see a flop, I am totally cool with that. Another advantage of going so big is, that it makes me a dick to the limpers. They hate me for it, because I ruin the game, they want to play. And I want them to hate me, because then they are more likely to make big mistakes against me in future hands.
fundiver198 You're almost never playing flops raising 10 BBs into 4 limpers. Sure, winning 5 BBs is winning 5 BBs but I can't see how winning JUST those 5 BBs over 80% of the time with top 10 hands is +EV. You gotta mix in different raises too otherwise super premium hands will just start to limp in front of you to jam you after you do your standard big raise. And their jam or sizable 3B definitely puts the lower half of your range in very tough spots
I have to disagree when you say betting turn could also be a good play. I’m sorry, but what hands do we protect against there that call flop? Spades obviously, and maybe occasionally some hand like king jack or ace jack that floated flop, .... and that’s honestly it (and keep in mind any ax hand has just 3 outs which we shouldn’t be paranoid about.). I still don’t agree with this though because it’s hard for him to call two streets with less than maybe jj. And obviously tt or flopped trips, and that basically makes a range we lose against Most of the time when he gives action to turn bet. Alternatively, if we do check behind, we can induce him to bluff the river with busted draws or stuff he just floated with, (or maybe even jj trying to put out blocking bet) as well as minimize the damage when he did outdraw with something like aq or tens. Furthermore, we can also get more action from bluff catchers like 99 who may think we are trying to pull a fast one in the face of their perceived weakness and call just to keep us honest
Alex, how do you prevent somone from calling your preflop 5x raise out of position and them hitting a Ace on the flop while holding A-6 off and beating your kings. Happens all the bleepin time.
i wish I understood the strategy, but hey not everybody can do this and it is interesting to try and figure out what ppl will do even if i don't understand their strategy
Why do kings always make their holders feel like they're some king themselves? Sure, others are always bluffing, huh? He's one of these guys Sklansky means when he explains where the money comes from.
Yea I don't like the play on the turn. The re-raise pre-flop is too small, but saying that I'm not sure I agree with Alec here because other than 7s, every other hand he mentions is calling there. 10s, AK, AQ, etc. Sure, you fold out some Q9 / Q10s, but just as his bet looks like a squeeze from the CO, so does yours from the button. I'd have 3 bet pre, checked the flop, presumably he bets into me on turn and I call, and likewise on the river to anything that isn't massive. I tend to prefer calling down in position especially because then I get to see more free cards with I'm drawing, meaning I need to put money into unmade hands less. For sure, I'm losing a couple of hundred in this spot, but I'd not get stacked. I do play fairly low variance I confess, but I'm quite profitable.
QQ7s is a dry board in a 3b pot. Very few suited hands. But if our hero 3b more it decreases the # of flush hands the villain has. 2nd your opponent has to be aware to realize your big raise looks like a bluff. If he is clueless he will just fold worse. Another reason to raise more is if the opponent often calls 3bs OOP with worse. If he folds to much you want to raise smaller so he calls. With a great hand, position, and better skill you should be able to get value from him.
I'll give you the best strategy guide you've ever seen on 3 MISTAKES to Avoid With Pocket Kings in Cash Games. Mistake #1 Don't play too passive Mistake # 2 Don't play too aggressive Mistake # 3 Don't play too middle ground
I am beginner in poker games , I recently played tournament no limit holdem and when the blinds were 150/300 guy from udg raised preflope to 650 and next 2 players folded and I woke up with 2 kings. I reraised to 1650 eventually everyone else folded and the first raiser reraise into 5000. I had a stack of 32k and that guy pretty much had about 28k. I decided to slow play and just made the call. Flope was Qs 2d6d and he bet another 5k, called that and turn came Ad and he bet 10k by leaving 8k behind and I eventually folded. Did I play bad.. Is there any possibility he had AA or AQ in his hand?
@Alec What interests me about this hand is actually that villian checkraise quads on the turn. Do you think that's a good play? Isn't he just counting on getting stubborn calls from KK+ and folding out all heros bluffs? Worked out great here obviously, but still a bit questionable imo. Versus a tighter opponent there's literally 0 hands you can get value from by checkraising the turn since even TT is a fairly loose reiso
StillTrying2Help Versus AA and KK this might be the best line, because those hands might not bet the river anyway, but remember that KK+ is not hero's range. The rest of heros range is 100% bluffs and that is likely at least 50% of the range, the way to get value from those hands is to call. The third option is ofc the donk, on the turn, on the river, or both. To be honest though, that's not somehting I could give any advice on. That's something for Polk.
If Hero is bluffing, its almost certainly with a strong draw. Either the nut flushdraw or maybe KJ, which picked up an open ender on the turn. So I think, check-raising the turn is the perfect play here. The draws are getting 3:1, so they will likely call. And if they complete on the river, Villain can stack them. His line also work fine against boats (77 + TT), and other pocket pairs including KK-AA might check back the river anyway, if Villain continue to slowplay. So if Hero make the correct decision and fold KK here, its really not a problem, because Villain got as much value already from KK, as he could reasonably expect. As you both say, against the 1 pair part of Heros range, it kind of sucks, that there are two Q´s on the deck rather than just one. It should allow Hero to get away from overpairs, and he cant have any top pair hands, since they are completely blocked out. But there is nothing, Villain can do about that, and therefore it has to be correct to focus on maximizing value against the rest of Heros range, which is the draws and the boats.
It's really opponent dependent, i can see any line be good in the right circumstance but in general against good players i'm not raising on such boards unless i end the action after he triple barrels into me.
+fundiver198 The problem is that 77 isn't a part of heros range, even TT is a marginal reiso 400bbs deep, that's why I think there isn't much value in heros range. This hero obvoiusly has some station tendencies, but I wouldn't expect the average player to call a 120bb checkraise on a paired board with a draw. After all, if he has a draw, he blocks most other draws and is likely drawing dead against the vast majority of a checkraise range. That's why I think calling the turn and letting hero bluff or catch up is better overall.
You should put your opponent on a RANGE of hands, not a single hand. It looks cool on TV, when Daniel Negreanu say "I think, you have KJ", but thats just not, how poker work in real life.
This is true however an Ace or two Queens should have been an easy fold. Even if he is bluffing with pocket Kings should have been folded unless you hit one of the two remaining Kings.
It should. Next after an ace, two Q´s on the board is just about as bad, as it can get for KK. So of course you should not stack it off 400 BB deep. Your opponent is not raising you on the turn with JJ, and he is also not bluffing often enough to justify paying him off for such a big amount. Actually 400 BB deep you should even be carefull about getting it in with bottom set, because to often you will be in a set over set situation. So stacking off with just a single pair, even on an unpaired board, is WAY overplaying your hand.
I think, its very reasonable to check behind the flop. I don’t see this C-bet doing much actually. It will never fold out a better hand, and there is nothing, we can get 3 streets of value from anyway. Finally this is a very dry board, and we are playing deep. So its much more relevant to protect ourselfes from getting checkraised than from getting outdrawn. If he have AJ and bink an A on the turn, then good for him. It should be pretty easy to get away from KK, when there are both an A and two Q´s on the board. But most of the time he wont improve, and maybe he turn his hand into a bluff, when we checked behind on the flop. Or he have JT and improve to a pair worse than K´s. In which case now maybe we can get him to call at least one bet. So yes I agree. I think, there is much more value in underrepping KK here rather than overrepping it, is Hero did.
@@cennon you're exactly right. There's nothing more irritating than folding to a loose player 2 or 3 times and then having them outflop you when you have a monster pocket pair, but it happens just the same. I have played against 3 calling stations over the last 4 days whom I have raised with KQ suited, hit my K, and then just so happened to be up against AK. Infuriating.
Could you really have done much to push the villian off the hand when he flopped quad queens? I’ll admit i’m not an expert. But unless you could have got a fold pre-flop... There’s not too much you couldve done to get someone off a quad queen flop. I would have folded i think. That board was dangerous, any of those villians only needed 1 queen to beat pocket kings. But thats my opinion, maybe im wrong.
You'll never get someone off quad queens on that board. Never. That's a crazy thought. KK was overplayed, that's the message. Pretty cards but the action (at lowstakes level) definitely told the hero that he was beat on the turn. Lost $900 unnecessarily. Unless there was a very compelling reason (metagame with the player, previous history, etc.), muck those kings. As noted in other posts, nobody at those stakes is going to be bluff check raising on the turn or jamming the river with air. In the rare instances that it happens then tip the hat and move on to the next hand with 90% of your stack still in front of you.
Not raising high enough pre flop was not a mistake in this instance because with QQ your opponent isn't folding to anything. So it really isn't a mistake, it is simply good advice in any situation where your opponent might not be holding a high pocket pair.
guibox3 its the other way around, villain has an inellastic range if he has a pair, no matter if you bet 35 or 80 he is calling, so you really want to put money in the pot whit the best hand, and you wanna make the most of it if your opponent isn't really folding. The result in this hand has nothing to do to play the best you can preflop (and obviously post flop) and the best play here preflop is to re raise to a way bigger size whit premiums and bluffs to be balanced.
Hugo Buenrostro Yes. I was thinking in regards to just stealing the blinds, not trying to trap him. However, the result was still the same. He called anyways and unfortunately, he landed quads.If he didn't you only missed out on what...15 extra dollars preflop? No big deal. As said before, not a 'mistake' just good advice.
guibox3 well, its 15, 20, 25 dollars every time this Spot repeats itself, and thats a lot on a vaccum. Keep in mind that also this achieves charching more hands that wanna call to set mine you, like 77, 88, 99, TT, and whit the small re raise you giving those hands quite a lot of odds to pay and hit a set (or quads, like in this case). He had QQ but he could had a lot of hands in his range, and whit our hand we want to put more money in the pot. Remember that, unless you could see the cards of the opponent, you are playing a range of hands not an specific hand.
Just a cooler of hand, but calling that raise on the turn seemed very loose to me....i suppose it comes down to your bankroll in spots like that, but there are much better spots. This isn't a great example to talk about preflop sizing because villain ain't folding anyways. But still, a lot of good content in these videos for sure.
A bigger 3-bet would not save Hero from losing this hand. But the small size is a mistake never the less. If you are bluffing, you obviously want to raise big enough, that people will consider folding. And even when you raise for value, you still want to make it so big, that they are making a mistake, when they continue with a worse hand. In this case Hero charged his opponent 20$ to see the flop. But if his opponents expected win from seeing the flop was even just 21$, then Hero would have been better off, that his opponent folded preflop. If Hero pump it up to 60$, and pocket 7`s go away, thats totally fine. Because then pocket 7`s dont flop a set and stack hero postflop. This is something, which many new players massively fail to understand. They have this idea, that when they have a big hand, they MUST get action and take their opponent all the way to showdown. But thats just not the case. Even when you have the best hand, it still has value to pick up a pot uncontested, unless your opponent is drawing completely dead. Which is obviously never the case in the preflop game.
The moral of the story, dont get married to your hand. The fact, that the board was paired with Q`s, should have made KK and AA very easy folds, given that they lost to ANY hand with a Q in them and not just QQ. If it was a normal Q high board, Heros play would have been a bit more understandable. But even then you cant mindlessly stack off overpairs in a 12 SPR pot and 400 BB deep, because realistically you are getting it in against a set 90% of the time.
Why would the opponent re raise to $310 on the turn holding the nuts? And run the risk of chasing us off in seeing that we keep firing with a good hand. Surely the opponent puts us on AA or KK
Agree with a bigger raise pre-flop. $35 is giving the 3.125:1. $60 would be giving them 2:1. I don't agree with villain raise on the turn. Villain knows a Q is not out. All that would call is an over pair, 77, or TT. They have the nuts - why take the chance of folding you out? Villain is not even giving a flush draw odds to call. If a flush fills up they are going to stack you. You could even fill in a straight or boat and get stacked.
"Why take the chance of folding you out". Because it has no value to let your opponent see a showdown, if he is not going to put more money in the pot anyway. Also Hero got about 3:1 on a call, so draws were definitly priced in to continue. Maybe the direct pot odds were not quite correct. But they almost never are, and people typically call draws anyway, because they assume, they have implied odds, when they hit.
Bad players will call draws regardless of the paired board. But against a good player it would probably have been better for Villain to just check-call again on the turn.
I learned yesterday that it's better to fold KK when an A flops and villain calls your postflop checkraise after he called your 3Bet preflop. lol I must have been dreaming.... and woke up to AJ.
It's a flop we want to bet with just about 100% of our bluffs, we need to have some value in that range. That's pretty hard if we check back quads, trips and overpairs as you suggest.
I played queen's Vs kings earlyer in a cash game I had queen's he made small raise whit kings I re raised he called flop was small cards he bet I put him all in now that's hard one to get away from
personally.. i think bet sizing wont metter in this example at all preflop, only would give you more information on hand range(qq, jj, 1010, 99...wauit its not that Allec just said;)..there is no way qq are not calling any bet preflop in cut off. surprisingly he didnt 4bet.. anyway with this flop there is nothing more to say..you save yourself couple bucks preflop with those hands..why to inflate the pot on the turn..Allec got a point turn is crucial its pointless to bet there..all the brodway hands got you beat q10 kq qj aq..not kq not you got blockers but anyway.. my boy thought that villan got flush draw;] he desquised his hand preatty good tho;] found rite custumer in this spot is hard to fold kk or aa espacially when brick hit the river.. thats why chacking the turn wouldve been crucial.. hand wouldve cost you 200 not all your stack and you would take it to showdown.. couse he would bet half a pot..hoping that you gat anything of that board not ak or some small pair.. most flush draws will check raise the flop as well weak q..q9 ..q10 qj....what could flat call? trap.. qq and strong q like aq and pocket pairs like tens 99 88...on the turn he is just beating basically 3 hands 88 99 as10s, flush draws and small pairs of his range.. on other hand;] touht to fold kk there to check raise..i quest its there where is the difrance btw good n great player...
I agree that the hero here should have played his KK more firmly to avoid trouble, but I disagree with the analysis that he should have given up and conceded that he was beaten with no chance of a bluff. The way a lot of more aggressive players act, his hand could also have been up against either JJ or more likely AJ of spades instead of QQ, in which case his hand would still actually be good all the way through. With three limpers ahead, the cutoff could easily be making a big raise to either scare everyone out and take down the pot uncontested or make them pay up to play against him. He has no way of knowing that the button has KK or better when he only makes a small three-bet. The button could have several different hands, and at that point the cutoff is getting pot odds to call and play it out. When the queens come on the flop with a 7, he has every reason to think that the button had something like AK and just made a continuation bet, which he calls hoping his pair of jacks is still good or to continue his flush draw, as well as to feel things out in order to set up later action. When the 10 comes it gives him a gutshot for his AJ suited to go along with his flush draw. So his check raise on the turn can be either a value bet to make the button pay to stay in the hand against his JJ which he thinks are good, or else a semi-bluff with the AJs, or just an outright bluff representing a queen because everyone knows that a check raise on the turn means strength, especially on a paired board, right? So if he can't reasonably put the button on KK or AA, at worst he thinks the button has JJ if he doesn't, so this looks like a really smart move on his part. And since the button just calls the turn rather than reraise him, he now feels sure that the button doesn't have a queen himself and can be even further intimidated. So when a blank comes on the river, having gone this far, why wouldn't he pull the trigger and bluff all-in? Is this kind of play gutsy as hell? Sure it is, but considering the big money involved, by this point this is no longer a small stakes instant-call situation, so with the hands I've described, the cutoff figures his opponent will hesitate after his previous passive play and fold more often than not. Sure, QQ or AQ are likely hands here for the cutoff to have and be value betting, so folding on the turn would have made more sense than going to the river and risking one's entire stack. Still, in a sequence like this, at least some of the time what we are seeing here is a gradual progression by a weaker hand from at first following the pot odds to semi-bluffing to flat out bluffing based on the perceived opportunity presented by an opponent's passive play. Even donkeys luck out with quads now and then, but they also get caught up in what is happening and press their luck, so pocket kings are not always beaten here.
I see people go crazy all the time with an over-pair to the board, and they forget their opponent might have connected with something better than a single pair.....then again, I don't play $1.25/2.50 tables.
since this video had 888 logo, here how it goes with KK on 888, 8 out of 10 times if you have kings someone have aces,the other times they will have lower pair but mandatory improve to a set or 2 pair, i had a player callin quarter of his stack 3 bet with 93 suited, and hit 2 pair while i had kings.... online poker is pure garbage especially sites like 888
Of course you know exactly what to do you're watching the whole thing but u know damn well your not folding those pocket KKs to a Q high flop especially with that run out you have to play it if he happens to have you beat then oh well but you can't play scared if your gonna fold that hand don't play poker or go play a 10cent 20cent limit game lol
Its not a Q high flop, its a PAIRED Q high flop. This makes a huge difference, because on a single Q high flop, you can get value from AQ and KQ, which your opponent will typically value quite highly. But on this flop you lose to AQ and KQ, so what worse hands are you getting him to commit with? Does even JJ love this flop enough to stack off this deep? I dont think so. And even if it does, there are only 6 combos of JJ, while there are also 6 combos of AA, 8 combos of AQ, 4 combos of KQ and on the turn 3 combos of TT, which we lose to. Its not "scared money" to understand, how your hand compares to the range, which your opponent would stack off with. Its good winning poker.
I dunno what the blinds are, just going off what Alec said at 0:57 (that it's a huge raise). Maybe he doesn't play live either what do you think??? Regardless that wasn't the point of my question.
so in that spot when you 3-bet preflop you can only have JJ+/AQs+ or a bluff ? seems like a pretty exploitable range imo... blinds 1.25$/2.50$ the CO raised to 6BB not that huge especially for a live casino game imo
do you guys just jump straight into the comments and post random shit before watching the video? Alec is the one who said we can have 77 or TT here and don't need to call with KK.
The pot size is right above the dealer at the top of the screen. It doesn't include the current bets but math isn't too difficult, you can see the bets on the table. Add to the current pot size, the info is all there.
Fold pre for deception
also for balancing your folding range
🤣
Or move all-in AFTER you fold and watch the fish scatter.
I've learned that about half the time when I have the pocket kings, my opponent has pocket aces. I'm not kidding.
I've learned that having pocket Kings ensures there's an Ace on the flop.
statistically he will have aces 4% of the time sort of like pocket aces only win 80% of the time but for me it seems much worse.
Soo truee
in a full ring or shorthanded?
Mostly true. However I've had pocket kings and two more came on the flop...Quads...Doubled up 30 more dollars in that moment I loved pocket kings .
some people just cant fold high pocket pair's
don't get married to any two cards is my rule of thumb
Very true! I need more discipline when it comes to that!
Richard Adiska very true. I cant ever fold kings or aces. Its why i suck...
nother reason to be like an assassin
so much for pot commitment, genius!
@@TSAVVVV then stop listening to the wrong people and work that elbow grease!
Sometimes poker is about limiting the damage. Here's how it could've played out:
- Raise to $60 pre-flop, get called.
- Bet 1/2 pot ($65), get called.
- Check back on the turn.
- Make a value bet (~$100-150) on the river, the other guy pushes all-in, you fold.
So you would lose maybe $250 on the hand instead of stacking the guy.
DanielSong39 big pairs = win a little or lose a lot. Well said.
𠃋
DanielSong39 How could the hero "value bet" the river when he's not first to act? Zero chance villain checks 2 straight streets with quads. Has to make some money if turn goes check check
If the villain makes a value bet you call and lose another ~$100-150; if he shoves you fold and cut your losses short further. So the result would be pretty similar; a smaller loss.
The real hero is the guy with QQQQ.
This player didn't understand the effect that stack size have on you actions on poker.
You're not suppose to lose 400bb with pocket pairs that never got stronger.
A lot of hate comments on your vids. And “suggestions”. I’m watching these old videos and having a blast. Great work, dude. Cheers from Cali
If I'm sitting with KK and that flop hits, I hate my hand straight away. . Agree with most of comments here, you simply cannot call thar shove on the river. I've been in this situation before and always regretted it. Just shows how difficult some players find it to get away from KK, AA holdings.
Similar scenario just happened online poker to me. I had J,Q, the RIVER was J,9,7,7,J, we both went All in, and the opponent ended up having a pair of 7's, so he had 7,7,7,7 and won. The odds were heavily stacked against him getting that hand and winning against my triple Js.
Thanks Alec - the preflop 3-bet sizing in position was extremely helpful information.
The other time I folded KK on the turn, same board and it was my 1st hand at the table, I never played with the opp before. He had a flush draw and was betting it heavily. Most likely there will be a Q with that aggressive line so i decided not to punish myself too much for that.
I would have folded that shit on the turn. He's right. Too many hands can beat you at that spot. At least 4 out of 5 times in a spot like that, he's got you beat.
who thought he meant $125/$250
marcjtdc I did until he said he made a massive raise to $9 bucks. Lol
Me lmao
You must adjust the strength of your hand based on your opponent's range. Sure you have kings. You have an overpair. Most of the time when a ton of money goes into the pot at low stakes, a single pair is crushed. In this case, villain's range includes a lot of queens. The fact that 2 flop would immediately make me want to pot control.
Precisely! He could have easily had triple Qs.
Problem is even if he bet large preflop, pocket QQ will still call. Still with a connected board like that, 1 pair is not enough. If someone bets on a board like that I will fold KK, thingking I'm facing at least 2 pairs or set,
Why I like small ball poker post flop
Gives you room to play on the flop and bluff occasionally
That turn raise at live low stakes in the US is pretty much never a bluff. I'd just much snap fold and make it seem like I wiffed with AK.
There is SOOO much money to be made by these extreme exploits. There goes enough hourly win to account for 3 sessions. :/
Agreed. There are essentially zero live 1/2 players that can checkraise the turn as a bluff or semibluff. I wouldn't even bother doing it because players like the one in the video just call you down when they should fold.
Exaclty. The bad players don't know what they are repping. The good players know it doesn't matter. ;)
It's not much of an exploit if you b/fold kk in this spot.
What's your range for betting this turn?
I'd bet significantly smaller otf, but as played, I'd probably bet AA/KK/any Q/TT, any flushdraw (not too many of these in my range due to preflopaction), KJ. If we get c/raised, we obv continue with every Q. We continue with TT. We also have to add a few combodraws, KJss, J9ss, that's enough already imo. Gotta count combos, maybe we should add AA as well, but KK is a fold.
You're not even making an exploitable one, it's pretty standard imo.
We also don't have Kc. Makes KcQc possible.
Just dump those kings.
Of course I'm watching this and playing online and my opponent just stacked me with Quad Q's. Not even joking. All in preflop AK vs QQ
This exact hand happened to me on Saturday at a 1-3 table haha flush draw and all. Your explanation of why he really isnt bluffing on the river after you call the turn could have saved me some money .
Glad to hear it!
Love the Alec Torelli vs Aircrafts in the recent videos lol
I like how you make a good case for folding the turn then immediately say calling the turn is fine but then make sure to fold any river bet he leads with. Take a stand man, that was a dumb turn call.
I agree. If you face that checkraise on the turn, its time to realize, it was a mistake to bet twice, and just cut your losses. Maybe he is bluffing sometimes, but you cant give action, because you have a hand, which should not even be in your range at this point.
I agree with Alec pre flop 3 bet too small. The problem with a lot of these hands is there is not enough info on the villain to make an accurate recommendation. The check raise on the turn is SO Strong. I would estimate that only 5- 10% of all poker players could make that move without at least a Queen. With the little info we have I think the turn check raise is an easy fold.
StillTrying2Help flush draw raises flop.
Also if it doesnt raise flop it check/calls turn, with paired board doesnt raise
The call on the flop looks dumb strong in itself. He has little incentive to call a flop bet with a worse hand than KK.
Rudi Storm for sure too little info. So much of this is just guessing, really have to be there to make game time decision
Landan Life agree it's strong but he calls with 88-JJ for sure and maybe AK.
You could check the flop. Your hand doesn't need much protection. And his raise-call range has qq, kqs, aqo, qjs, etc. In it. You probably can only extract one street from JJ. What is his plan if he holds JJ out of position? Call you down and hope you have ak? However he might bet jj to protect it if you give him some rope.
Good points.
Was kind of risky for villain to jam the river, risking a hero fold. But luckily for villain our hero fell for it hook, line and sinker.
I'm a low stakes amateur player. The only time I play at 420 bb is when I'm in a super deep stacked tournament. My call behind range is much bigger than my 3 bet range. I feel that 3 betting gives away the strength of my hands and my 3 bet range doesn't play as well after the flop. So when I'm playing 420 bb is ok to flat call with KK there? My thinking is in deep stack poker the goal is to flop a monster and if KK doesn't improve then it becomes a bluff catcher and maybe you can value bet on later streets because your hand is disguised. And I would like to mention when I'm not playing a deep stack game I'm 3 betting there.
The beginning of his vlog reminds me of funkzeit mit bruno from the ali g show
Totally agree preflop, I'm 4xing his bet to 60. And agree with both of the other two mistakes. Calling checkraise on turn, clear mistake, calling shove on the river another mistake. I totally agree.
Excellent video!
Thanks my man!
I had this exact same thing happen to me recently. I think i remember making the same mistake on the preflop as well.
II agree with you, I would just check on the turn, clearly the guy has a strong hand after calling bet on the flop. (AA, AQ, or a set I would think). I would even check on the river or fold on a bet!
Quick question, when the flop comes Q Q 7 (2 spades) if he checks and you bet $50, what if he goes all in? What do you do? Insta fold or call the all in?
It's hands like this that really confuse me.
Fold if an A comes in the flop...I know it’s a hard thing to do!! Lol
@Alec agreed on pre flop 3bet, but what about going for a delayed c bet on the turn instead? Although it gives an Ace a free draw there are tons more safe cards than danger ones. More often you'll be playing for a smaller pot on the river with a one pair type hand, and villain has a chance to catch up and call 2 streets with worse like K/J/T/9/8 maybe even 7 on the turn.
Good video... so true how such a small mistake can ruin the whole hand for you.
That turn raise is always a nutted hand from any player but a complete maniac. There are 0 reasonable bluffs here, I think this line is usually a Q or a boat.
Rob B Semi bluffing draws to get folds only really works in the higher stakes with players who have a much more thorough thought process
Bluffing can surely work at micro stakes. But bluffing into someone, who has shown nothing but strength, is pretty suicidal in general. So you dont want to pick a spot like this, where you are trying to get someone off a massive spot, after he 3-bet preflop, C-bet the flop and C-bet the turn.
But check-raising the flop in a single raised pot, when you defended your blind against a mid or late position open, will get the job done a massive amount of the time. Its almost to the point, where you feel, you have to do it with your sets to range balance, and not the other way around :-)
fundiver198 o
Game theoretically you're wrong but in this spot at these stakes in a live game you're probably right.
Do you think when you call the rise on the turn if he has A's do you think he check calls river not bet out without a Q at least
Is $15 a huge raise at a live game? I think that pretty standard with all those limpers in front of him.
With 3 limpers in front of him 6X is actually a bit to small in my opinion. I would usually pump it up to 8X in that situation, betting about twice what it is the pot already. If you go smaller than that, you often invite a very multiway pot in this kind of limp-fest games. And since you are only going to have strong value hands in this situation, you might as well make it a bit bigger and really punish all those limpers.
fundiver198 Exactly
3x+(1BB per person) is what I myself use and a lot of people use as well, online. I'd imagine people should go even bigger live, due to people being more calling-stationy (fishier on average) and being deeper as well. So 8x sounds good to me indeed, but 6x is fine as well. Not huge in any sense IMO.
I read about the 3X + 1 BB per limper as well and used it, when I started playing online poker. But the problem with it is, that as the number of limpers grow, you will be giving particularly the last one to react a better and better price. And I dont see any theoretical merit in that.
So what I do these days is to use another simple to remember rule, which I made myself. I count, how much is already in the pot, and then I bet twice that amount or slightly less. So against 2 limpers, I usually bet 6 BB, against 3 its usually 8 BB, and against 4 its usually 10 BB.
Yes 10 BB is large as an open raise. But there is already 5,5 BB in the middle, so my risk-reward is better, than if I bet 10 BB as a 3-bet into a pot, where someone opened it to 3 BB, and there is only 4,5 BB in the middle.
I go this large, because I really want to punish the limpers. I want to avoid creating a multiway pot, and I am totally cool, if I just pick up the 5,5 BB uncontested with a hand like AK or QQ. No hand is invincible, and if people want to voluntarely put extra blinds into the pot and then still not see a flop, I am totally cool with that.
Another advantage of going so big is, that it makes me a dick to the limpers. They hate me for it, because I ruin the game, they want to play. And I want them to hate me, because then they are more likely to make big mistakes against me in future hands.
fundiver198 You're almost never playing flops raising 10 BBs into 4 limpers. Sure, winning 5 BBs is winning 5 BBs but I can't see how winning JUST those 5 BBs over 80% of the time with top 10 hands is +EV. You gotta mix in different raises too otherwise super premium hands will just start to limp in front of you to jam you after you do your standard big raise. And their jam or sizable 3B definitely puts the lower half of your range in very tough spots
get rid of your intro.
Doug Polk trolls his intro so hard
I have to disagree when you say betting turn could also be a good play. I’m sorry, but what hands do we protect against there that call flop? Spades obviously, and maybe occasionally some hand like king jack or ace jack that floated flop, .... and that’s honestly it (and keep in mind any ax hand has just 3 outs which we shouldn’t be paranoid about.). I still don’t agree with this though because it’s hard for him to call two streets with less than maybe jj. And obviously tt or flopped trips, and that basically makes a range we lose against Most of the time when he gives action to turn bet. Alternatively, if we do check behind, we can induce him to bluff the river with busted draws or stuff he just floated with, (or maybe even jj trying to put out blocking bet) as well as minimize the damage when he did outdraw with something like aq or tens. Furthermore, we can also get more action from bluff catchers like 99 who may think we are trying to pull a fast one in the face of their perceived weakness and call just to keep us honest
Brilliant play by the oppenent
Alex, how do you prevent somone from calling your preflop 5x raise out of position and them hitting a Ace on the flop while holding A-6 off and beating your kings. Happens all the bleepin time.
Sorry , auto correct spelled Alex.
i wish I understood the strategy, but hey not everybody can do this and it is interesting to try and figure out what ppl will do even if i don't understand their strategy
Why do kings always make their holders feel like they're some king themselves? Sure, others are always bluffing, huh? He's one of these guys Sklansky means when he explains where the money comes from.
Yea I don't like the play on the turn.
The re-raise pre-flop is too small, but saying that I'm not sure I agree with Alec here because other than 7s, every other hand he mentions is calling there. 10s, AK, AQ, etc. Sure, you fold out some Q9 / Q10s, but just as his bet looks like a squeeze from the CO, so does yours from the button.
I'd have 3 bet pre, checked the flop, presumably he bets into me on turn and I call, and likewise on the river to anything that isn't massive. I tend to prefer calling down in position especially because then I get to see more free cards with I'm drawing, meaning I need to put money into unmade hands less. For sure, I'm losing a couple of hundred in this spot, but I'd not get stacked. I do play fairly low variance I confess, but I'm quite profitable.
QQ7s is a dry board in a 3b pot. Very few suited hands. But if our hero 3b more it decreases the # of flush hands the villain has.
2nd your opponent has to be aware to realize your big raise looks like a bluff. If he is clueless he will just fold worse.
Another reason to raise more is if the opponent often calls 3bs OOP with worse.
If he folds to much you want to raise smaller so he calls. With a great hand, position, and better skill you should be able to get value from him.
I'll give you the best strategy guide you've ever seen on 3 MISTAKES to Avoid With Pocket Kings in Cash Games.
Mistake #1 Don't play too passive
Mistake # 2 Don't play too aggressive
Mistake # 3 Don't play too middle ground
I would have flat called that preflop raise for sure because both player's stack size are 500 bb+
This was an easy fold on the turn.
What if u have this hand out of position? What would u do on the turn if u are called on the flop?
Either commit or let it go
I am beginner in poker games , I recently played tournament no limit holdem and when the blinds were 150/300 guy from udg raised preflope to 650 and next 2 players folded and I woke up with 2 kings. I reraised to 1650 eventually everyone else folded and the first raiser reraise into 5000. I had a stack of 32k and that guy pretty much had about 28k. I decided to slow play and just made the call. Flope was Qs 2d6d and he bet another 5k, called that and turn came Ad and he bet 10k by leaving 8k behind and I eventually folded. Did I play bad.. Is there any possibility he had AA or AQ in his hand?
why not fold ? i would fold on turn unless my opponent showed constant agressive play. Folding on river is easy. U only beat a bluff?
Be surprise with the online bluff you see
@Alec What interests me about this hand is actually that villian checkraise quads on the turn. Do you think that's a good play? Isn't he just counting on getting stubborn calls from KK+ and folding out all heros bluffs? Worked out great here obviously, but still a bit questionable imo. Versus a tighter opponent there's literally 0 hands you can get value from by checkraising the turn since even TT is a fairly loose reiso
MouZeWarrioR ** good point I mean what could he think his opponent has
StillTrying2Help Versus AA and KK this might be the best line, because those hands might not bet the river anyway, but remember that KK+ is not hero's range.
The rest of heros range is 100% bluffs and that is likely at least 50% of the range, the way to get value from those hands is to call.
The third option is ofc the donk, on the turn, on the river, or both. To be honest though, that's not somehting I could give any advice on. That's something for Polk.
If Hero is bluffing, its almost certainly with a strong draw. Either the nut flushdraw or maybe KJ, which picked up an open ender on the turn. So I think, check-raising the turn is the perfect play here. The draws are getting 3:1, so they will likely call. And if they complete on the river, Villain can stack them.
His line also work fine against boats (77 + TT), and other pocket pairs including KK-AA might check back the river anyway, if Villain continue to slowplay. So if Hero make the correct decision and fold KK here, its really not a problem, because Villain got as much value already from KK, as he could reasonably expect.
As you both say, against the 1 pair part of Heros range, it kind of sucks, that there are two Q´s on the deck rather than just one. It should allow Hero to get away from overpairs, and he cant have any top pair hands, since they are completely blocked out.
But there is nothing, Villain can do about that, and therefore it has to be correct to focus on maximizing value against the rest of Heros range, which is the draws and the boats.
It's really opponent dependent, i can see any line be good in the right circumstance but in general against good players i'm not raising on such boards unless i end the action after he triple barrels into me.
+fundiver198 The problem is that 77 isn't a part of heros range, even TT is a marginal reiso 400bbs deep, that's why I think there isn't much value in heros range.
This hero obvoiusly has some station tendencies, but I wouldn't expect the average player to call a 120bb checkraise on a paired board with a draw. After all, if he has a draw, he blocks most other draws and is likely drawing dead against the vast majority of a checkraise range.
That's why I think calling the turn and letting hero bluff or catch up is better overall.
Good info. But, you need to speak slower. Some is hard to understand because you're going so fast. That's a snap fold hand, in my humble opinion.
Put your opponent on a hand like Ace/Queen pre-flop & fold the turn. Always put your opponent on a hand.
You should put your opponent on a RANGE of hands, not a single hand. It looks cool on TV, when Daniel Negreanu say "I think, you have KJ", but thats just not, how poker work in real life.
This is true however an Ace or two Queens should have been an easy fold. Even if he is bluffing with pocket Kings should have been folded unless you hit one of the two remaining Kings.
It should. Next after an ace, two Q´s on the board is just about as bad, as it can get for KK. So of course you should not stack it off 400 BB deep. Your opponent is not raising you on the turn with JJ, and he is also not bluffing often enough to justify paying him off for such a big amount. Actually 400 BB deep you should even be carefull about getting it in with bottom set, because to often you will be in a set over set situation. So stacking off with just a single pair, even on an unpaired board, is WAY overplaying your hand.
is renonable chck behind flop to control the pot ?
i think chck flop bet turn is better.. whats do u think ?
make Ax pay
I think, its very reasonable to check behind the flop. I don’t see this C-bet doing much actually. It will never fold out a better hand, and there is nothing, we can get 3 streets of value from anyway. Finally this is a very dry board, and we are playing deep. So its much more relevant to protect ourselfes from getting checkraised than from getting outdrawn.
If he have AJ and bink an A on the turn, then good for him. It should be pretty easy to get away from KK, when there are both an A and two Q´s on the board. But most of the time he wont improve, and maybe he turn his hand into a bluff, when we checked behind on the flop. Or he have JT and improve to a pair worse than K´s. In which case now maybe we can get him to call at least one bet.
So yes I agree. I think, there is much more value in underrepping KK here rather than overrepping it, is Hero did.
SO basically, pre-flop you had the best hand, after the flop not so much. a poker hand still needs 5 cards ;)
Loose player = call, tight = fold
Nah, even loose players get great hands just like anyone else. You're behind far more times than you're ahead.
@@cennon you're exactly right. There's nothing more irritating than folding to a loose player 2 or 3 times and then having them outflop you when you have a monster pocket pair, but it happens just the same. I have played against 3 calling stations over the last 4 days whom I have raised with KQ suited, hit my K, and then just so happened to be up against AK. Infuriating.
Could you really have done much to push the villian off the hand when he flopped quad queens?
I’ll admit i’m not an expert.
But unless you could have got a fold pre-flop...
There’s not too much you couldve done to get someone off a quad queen flop.
I would have folded i think.
That board was dangerous, any of those villians only needed 1 queen to beat pocket kings.
But thats my opinion, maybe im wrong.
You'll never get someone off quad queens on that board. Never. That's a crazy thought. KK was overplayed, that's the message. Pretty cards but the action (at lowstakes level) definitely told the hero that he was beat on the turn. Lost $900 unnecessarily. Unless there was a very compelling reason (metagame with the player, previous history, etc.), muck those kings. As noted in other posts, nobody at those stakes is going to be bluff check raising on the turn or jamming the river with air. In the rare instances that it happens then tip the hat and move on to the next hand with 90% of your stack still in front of you.
Not raising high enough pre flop was not a mistake in this instance because with QQ your opponent isn't folding to anything. So it really isn't a mistake, it is simply good advice in any situation where your opponent might not be holding a high pocket pair.
guibox3 its the other way around, villain has an inellastic range if he has a pair, no matter if you bet 35 or 80 he is calling, so you really want to put money in the pot whit the best hand, and you wanna make the most of it if your opponent isn't really folding. The result in this hand has nothing to do to play the best you can preflop (and obviously post flop) and the best play here preflop is to re raise to a way bigger size whit premiums and bluffs to be balanced.
Hugo Buenrostro
Yes. I was thinking in regards to just stealing the blinds, not trying to trap him. However, the result was still the same. He called anyways and unfortunately, he landed quads.If he didn't you only missed out on what...15 extra dollars preflop? No big deal. As said before, not a 'mistake' just good advice.
guibox3 well, its 15, 20, 25 dollars every time this Spot repeats itself, and thats a lot on a vaccum. Keep in mind that also this achieves charching more hands that wanna call to set mine you, like 77, 88, 99, TT, and whit the small re raise you giving those hands quite a lot of odds to pay and hit a set (or quads, like in this case). He had QQ but he could had a lot of hands in his range, and whit our hand we want to put more money in the pot. Remember that, unless you could see the cards of the opponent, you are playing a range of hands not an specific hand.
someone check raises you on the river dump the hand cause he got you beat unless hes a pure maniac and doesnt care if he wins or loses
Just a cooler of hand, but calling that raise on the turn seemed very loose to me....i suppose it comes down to your bankroll in spots like that, but there are much better spots. This isn't a great example to talk about preflop sizing because villain ain't folding anyways. But still, a lot of good content in these videos for sure.
IMO if he raised to 60$ preflop, would it be possible to place the villain on QQ uptill the river.
A bigger 3-bet would not save Hero from losing this hand. But the small size is a mistake never the less. If you are bluffing, you obviously want to raise big enough, that people will consider folding. And even when you raise for value, you still want to make it so big, that they are making a mistake, when they continue with a worse hand.
In this case Hero charged his opponent 20$ to see the flop. But if his opponents expected win from seeing the flop was even just 21$, then Hero would have been better off, that his opponent folded preflop. If Hero pump it up to 60$, and pocket 7`s go away, thats totally fine. Because then pocket 7`s dont flop a set and stack hero postflop.
This is something, which many new players massively fail to understand. They have this idea, that when they have a big hand, they MUST get action and take their opponent all the way to showdown. But thats just not the case. Even when you have the best hand, it still has value to pick up a pot uncontested, unless your opponent is drawing completely dead. Which is obviously never the case in the preflop game.
very insightful. ty
The moral of the story is: Don't get coolered when you have KK vs QQ. When the guy raises the turn, KK is virtually dead.
Not really a cooler, as you mentioned - if you had a boat it would've been a really tough beat.
The moral of the story, dont get married to your hand. The fact, that the board was paired with Q`s, should have made KK and AA very easy folds, given that they lost to ANY hand with a Q in them and not just QQ. If it was a normal Q high board, Heros play would have been a bit more understandable. But even then you cant mindlessly stack off overpairs in a 12 SPR pot and 400 BB deep, because realistically you are getting it in against a set 90% of the time.
Why would the opponent re raise to $310 on the turn holding the nuts? And run the risk of chasing us off in seeing that we keep firing with a good hand. Surely the opponent puts us on AA or KK
maybe after playing history he knows he will marry his big pair and it's the best way to stack him
awesome video as usual thanks alec ;)
When he calls the flop, put on the brakes and check fold...
What does he mean by pocket 7s? (Serious question im very new to poker)
pocket 7s = 77 in holding cards
really should check back the turn.call the river.or call the river check raise.
Agree with a bigger raise pre-flop. $35 is giving the 3.125:1. $60 would be giving them 2:1. I don't agree with villain raise on the turn. Villain knows a Q is not out. All that would call is an over pair, 77, or TT. They have the nuts - why take the chance of folding you out? Villain is not even giving a flush draw odds to call. If a flush fills up they are going to stack you. You could even fill in a straight or boat and get stacked.
"Why take the chance of folding you out". Because it has no value to let your opponent see a showdown, if he is not going to put more money in the pot anyway. Also Hero got about 3:1 on a call, so draws were definitly priced in to continue. Maybe the direct pot odds were not quite correct. But they almost never are, and people typically call draws anyway, because they assume, they have implied odds, when they hit.
fundiver198 not on a paired board
Bad players will call draws regardless of the paired board. But against a good player it would probably have been better for Villain to just check-call again on the turn.
@fundriver Uh, the value of getting two more calls out of you versus a fold.
Ayy I'm from Helsinki too ^^
Greetings!
That Quad Queens is like wtf tho.
Sup Helsinki!
I learned yesterday that it's better to fold KK when an A flops and villain calls your postflop checkraise after he called your 3Bet preflop. lol I must have been dreaming.... and woke up to AJ.
Shouldn't we just check flop? We're well behind his cbet calling range and the small % of flush draws are not folding.
I feel like checking flop even looks strong with our whiffs. Can easily rep slowplayed trips or quads on the turn even if villain stabs.
It's a flop we want to bet with just about 100% of our bluffs, we need to have some value in that range. That's pretty hard if we check back quads, trips and overpairs as you suggest.
Couldn’t play quads any better than that
I would have folded to the check-raise for sure...95% of the time hey are NOT bluffing there...
It's very obvious by the river he has a 3 of a kind beat let alone 2 pair, I put him on 10s or AQ
I went to school w Alec! like the channel bro
Mistake number 4..... Not checking if your opponent has got high value chips, hidden behind some stacks of smaller value chips.
I played queen's Vs kings earlyer in a cash game I had queen's he made small raise whit kings I re raised he called flop was small cards he bet I put him all in now that's hard one to get away from
A stronger re raise pre flop would help me know I'm beat
personally.. i think bet sizing wont metter in this example at all preflop, only would give you more information on hand range(qq, jj, 1010, 99...wauit its not that Allec just said;)..there is no way qq are not calling any bet preflop in cut off. surprisingly he didnt 4bet.. anyway with this flop there is nothing more to say..you save yourself couple bucks preflop with those hands..why to inflate the pot on the turn..Allec got a point turn is crucial its pointless to bet there..all the brodway hands got you beat q10 kq qj aq..not kq not you got blockers but anyway.. my boy thought that villan got flush draw;] he desquised his hand preatty good tho;] found rite custumer in this spot is hard to fold kk or aa espacially when brick hit the river.. thats why chacking the turn wouldve been crucial.. hand wouldve cost you 200 not all your stack and you would take it to showdown.. couse he would bet half a pot..hoping that you gat anything of that board not ak or some small pair.. most flush draws will check raise the flop as well weak q..q9 ..q10 qj....what could flat call? trap.. qq and strong q like aq and pocket pairs like tens 99 88...on the turn he is just beating basically 3 hands 88 99 as10s, flush draws and small pairs of his range.. on other hand;] touht to fold kk there to check raise..i quest its there where is the difrance btw good n great player...
I agree that the hero here should have played his KK more firmly to avoid trouble, but I disagree with the analysis that he should have given up and conceded that he was beaten with no chance of a bluff. The way a lot of more aggressive players act, his hand could also have been up against either JJ or more likely AJ of spades instead of QQ, in which case his hand would still actually be good all the way through. With three limpers ahead, the cutoff could easily be making a big raise to either scare everyone out and take down the pot uncontested or make them pay up to play against him. He has no way of knowing that the button has KK or better when he only makes a small three-bet. The button could have several different hands, and at that point the cutoff is getting pot odds to call and play it out. When the queens come on the flop with a 7, he has every reason to think that the button had something like AK and just made a continuation bet, which he calls hoping his pair of jacks is still good or to continue his flush draw, as well as to feel things out in order to set up later action. When the 10 comes it gives him a gutshot for his AJ suited to go along with his flush draw. So his check raise on the turn can be either a value bet to make the button pay to stay in the hand against his JJ which he thinks are good, or else a semi-bluff with the AJs, or just an outright bluff representing a queen because everyone knows that a check raise on the turn means strength, especially on a paired board, right? So if he can't reasonably put the button on KK or AA, at worst he thinks the button has JJ if he doesn't, so this looks like a really smart move on his part. And since the button just calls the turn rather than reraise him, he now feels sure that the button doesn't have a queen himself and can be even further intimidated. So when a blank comes on the river, having gone this far, why wouldn't he pull the trigger and bluff all-in? Is this kind of play gutsy as hell? Sure it is, but considering the big money involved, by this point this is no longer a small stakes instant-call situation, so with the hands I've described, the cutoff figures his opponent will hesitate after his previous passive play and fold more often than not. Sure, QQ or AQ are likely hands here for the cutoff to have and be value betting, so folding on the turn would have made more sense than going to the river and risking one's entire stack. Still, in a sequence like this, at least some of the time what we are seeing here is a gradual progression by a weaker hand from at first following the pot odds to semi-bluffing to flat out bluffing based on the perceived opportunity presented by an opponent's passive play. Even donkeys luck out with quads now and then, but they also get caught up in what is happening and press their luck, so pocket kings are not always beaten here.
Good points, thanks for sharing!
It depends
I see people go crazy all the time with an over-pair to the board, and they forget their opponent might have connected with something better than a single pair.....then again, I don't play $1.25/2.50 tables.
The incorrect assumption I believe is that everyone you are playing with thinks this deeply and the fact is they do not
since this video had 888 logo, here how it goes with KK on 888, 8 out of 10 times if you have kings someone have aces,the other times they will have lower pair but mandatory improve to a set or 2 pair, i had a player callin quarter of his stack 3 bet with 93 suited, and hit 2 pair while i had kings.... online poker is pure garbage especially sites like 888
in one of your Instagram post u said capped poker is not real poker? why do u feel that way?
Anytime I’ve played online poker I’m always anticipating some kind of a set up. Not a good way to play and I prefer live games.
Of course you know exactly what to do you're watching the whole thing but u know damn well your not folding those pocket KKs to a Q high flop especially with that run out you have to play it if he happens to have you beat then oh well but you can't play scared if your gonna fold that hand don't play poker or go play a 10cent 20cent limit game lol
Its not a Q high flop, its a PAIRED Q high flop. This makes a huge difference, because on a single Q high flop, you can get value from AQ and KQ, which your opponent will typically value quite highly. But on this flop you lose to AQ and KQ, so what worse hands are you getting him to commit with? Does even JJ love this flop enough to stack off this deep? I dont think so. And even if it does, there are only 6 combos of JJ, while there are also 6 combos of AA, 8 combos of AQ, 4 combos of KQ and on the turn 3 combos of TT, which we lose to. Its not "scared money" to understand, how your hand compares to the range, which your opponent would stack off with. Its good winning poker.
how can we have 77 or TT when we 3b that huge open?
I dunno what the blinds are, just going off what Alec said at 0:57 (that it's a huge raise). Maybe he doesn't play live either what do you think???
Regardless that wasn't the point of my question.
so in that spot when you 3-bet preflop you can only have JJ+/AQs+ or a bluff ? seems like a pretty exploitable range imo... blinds 1.25$/2.50$ the CO raised to 6BB not that huge especially for a live casino game imo
you 3b >10%? then what? fold 80% to 4bets? sounds terrible
Why does 77 and TT have to be a part of our range? There's always a massive amount of hands we can't have 32o for example
do you guys just jump straight into the comments and post random shit before watching the video? Alec is the one who said we can have 77 or TT here and don't need to call with KK.
Hes literally reading off of a card... the music between the streets is very nice though, very impressive.
fold preflop. kings r either Ace magnets or they get u crushedb
COM THAT'S MY BACKYARD DUDE AWESOME
How is QQ7 a dry board? Lol
I dont think the QQ raised enough.
Also, convey full information on the screen. Pot size wasn't showing up.
The pot size is right above the dealer at the top of the screen. It doesn't include the current bets but math isn't too difficult, you can see the bets on the table. Add to the current pot size, the info is all there.
Something tells me that if you can keep up with this guy's explanation, you don't need to be watching this.
What you need is a bigger bankroll.
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fewer hands not less hands
Cash game i go 40 preflop
I think bigger is even better, like $55 or $60!
You have a one pair hand and your CALLING your stack off
you know peoples from finland? have you ever visited in here?
KK still not strong as you can lose to any two pairs