The flamewarden in pnp has an ability that allows parties to see through fog spells, and removes their miss chance for party members. Now it is just a gimped arch in the game.
There are a lot of archetypes that are weirdly weakened for the CRPG with missing or poorly implemented features. Even Demonslayer is only specifically good bc every other type of Ranger was made weaker by being forced to pick the "Demons of x" favored enemies, so its strength comes from a way they manufactured to make other Rangers worse lmfao.
I'd like to point out that the setting is what makes demonslayer so powerful. In the midnight isles where enemies are more mixed the demonslaywrs power level dips down a little because yoy can't actually garuntee demon enemies. It's like that antifae class, worked wonderfully for kingmaker but when fae weren't every 3rd enemy in the game its power level dragged down alot.
This is why I love specialty classes in games like this with a variety of titles. Each one tends to have an enemy that is the focus so I think they are great for letting them shine. It's hard since their specializing makes sense thematically but from game balance its difficult.
It should be noted that Seelah gets a minute per level spell that gives good party members charisma bonus to all saves, which can make Espionage Expert's charisma as a casting stat useful. For inevitable excess, Nocticula's headband adds charisma to ranged damage.
To that end, the isles also added the sweet lies cape which essentially gives someone divine grace. That said, I’ve never put it on anyone but a Paladin because that shit stacks with actual divine grace. And that’s how you crack 35 reflex save on a heavy armor paladin
Flamewarden is a bad archetype, but breath of life on a non healer is good. For starters, its never ideal to have only one person to revive, because they themselves might die, and secondly, its quite likely if someone died that other party members need to be healed urgently, which will occupy your healer. Its particularly useful to have this feature on a character that can self resurrect. And self resurrection is useful. No, you dont want to die, but if not wanting something to happen doesnt mean a safeguard against it isnt good, quite the opposite. That is why last stand is useful.
I agree about resurrect on non healers but I feel like Debuffer's should be handling that not damage dealers. You want your damage dealers focused on whittling down whatever enemies are blowing your parties up. Core class mechanics should be things you can regularly trigger and plan around. Self resurrection on a character who will probably be ranged is just not particularly useful. Especially considering the things this subclass sacrifices.
I HATE that Espionage Expert has a bonus to Stealth checks.... but LOOSES CAMOUFLAGE, that lets you use it in combat. Words cannot describe how much I loathe that
With the new DLC coming out next month and having just picked up the last one.. The Lord of Nothing, going to start a new playthrough with a new character and DemonSlayer/Ranger sounds perfect after checking out this video 👍
Rant time: I do not understand why Owlcat felt the need to nerf Ranger by splitting up the Evil Outsider favored enemy into three different types of demons only to turn around and put Demonslayer in as a class alternative. It just makes no sense to me at all and is one of the major justifications for the Tabletop Tweaks mod being a must have for me.
i really like this class, it has the best druid spells, full BaB growth, additional combat feats, that are usually blocked by "requires fighter level X" or are just hard to get, for free. PLUS, you get +10 Attack bonus for you, and +5 for your companions (if you take Ranger's bond), against every demon (at least in my case, i don't know why, but i can choose "evil outsider" on every ranger, not only demonslayer). favoured terrain is a nice bonus, and quarry as a swift action is 10/10 ability, especially if you use gloves, that give enemy -2AC and sickened condition (-2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks) after you use it (the name of those: Big Game Gloves). And at the end, i want to say that Nomad Sub-Class is op, it makes you a tank, essentially doubles your DMG, and is good for attacks of opportunity build.
Gendarme can give some nice bonuses but I wouldn't dip until after choosing your pet. I also like Vivi as 1 level will still be covered by boon and give sneak attack and mutagens.
be careful with dips. if memory serves the ranger pet doesnt get full progression unlike the paladin druid hunter or sylvan sorcerer, so boon companion is a required feat if you plan on riding on one and if you dip your pet will suffer if the dipping class does not have animal progression. with the other four classes i mentioned, you could dip and just take boon companion and your pet wouldnt suffer, but a class like ranger, it will suffer even with boon companion (similar to a cleric with animal domain or an oracle with nature mystery dipping). with that said i like sohei dip on ranger, as well as mad dog. if you dont care about pet and want to go a more caster hybrid like eldritch knight with your ranger, id go more into either freebooter or espionage expert which is what those archtypes are better geared to do than demonslayer.
If you are into pets then Divine Hound from the Hunter class pairs very well, provided that your pet is a Dog. Basically this allows to continue specializing in ranged DPS but enhances your pet synergy. Also Dog is just an awesome pet (in RL and also in WOTR).
I think Freebooter is a good choice for Delamere. Because her attack roll bonuses could be applied to summoned skeletons. I am still working out my ideal Lich, but as part of that I am thinking more about the Grave Guards. I think they benefit me most by taking classes that allow me to pump up my skeleton army. With enough bonuses I can make skeletons with 4 attacks per round with over +35 to hit. Maybe I can raise it even further once I actually build the party.
@@SlanderedGaming And it is archetypal for a Lich. The GG's are mostly martial, so the Lich needs to do a bit of everything. That's why I use a Mystic Theurge. All the arcane and divine buffing, and the spell damage is my job too. Everyone else's function is to competently fight while boosting my summons, so I can overwhelm even demon lords with a tidal wave of bone and steel, all while I stay at range, untouched while I fire off Battering Blast spells that hit 6 times each. While I hear melee liches are powerful, the GG's don't really have the spell support to build a well-rounded party if you aren't a full caster. Even if you get lich spells, it doesn't make too much difference if you are front-lining the enemy with your thralls.
Such great content you provide! Just found your channel and would love to see more. Right now I'm wondering about all kinds of Legend builds... who doesn't love multiclassing? 😉😎✌️ Anyway, I wish I had lots of money to give you for your work, but I'm broke atm, so a small tip must do for now, yet I'm having a hard time finding a way to do that even... I recommend you fix that for us tippers ✌️😎
Demonslayer is bonkers. Also I wouldn't rank trip so high. On difficulty above normal pet trip attacks are very hard to hit so its mostly wasted feat/ability for pets.
On Core my Dog regularly connects but you have to invest in the pet's CMB. You are correct if you just put trip on them it's not going to work particularly well.
I think most people give a PC or Mook 4 levels of freebooter max. If you're 10 mutation warrior 6 other class its a nice bonus. More micro management. Worth calling out demonslayer as an absurd 1 level dip and absurd full class. The only question with it is when do you dip out to something else. Honestly pets are way op in wrath. Having like 4-5 guys on pets with teamwork feats is broken. Its like how many attacks of oppertunity can you get it one round
Hey slandered idk if you'll reply to this comment (hopefully you do lol) but i have a question. I want to do a dual wielding Demon slayer, because i'm required to pick a fighting style i can pick two weapon fighting without the required DEX right?.
One minor quibble, it sounds like you are saying "death kneel" in these videos instead of "death knell", which is pronounced exactly like it is spelled except for the silent K. I could be mishearing you though!
@@SlanderedGaming Hahaha, that has to be one of the awkward parts of being a youtuber, eh? We all have those, but most of us aren't exposed to a massive public audience that can comment on it...
I think you are too generous here. Stormwalker for this game is a straight F. You’d never, ever, want the trades it gets over the base class. Especially in a game with about 90% of the enemies are immune to lightning.
@@TheRealNemesisX right - but then you’ll burn a mythic feat to get paltry damage to your bow shots. All the while trading in a pet and the amazing quarry etc etc. F!
@@quincymims2580 lol, I feel the passion.. and I agree I can only imagine there's some roleplay element for the class since i'd never use it.. then again if paizo makes a new adventure path where this class shines.. we'll be back - until then -> !F!
Regarding stealth on the world map, its checked only against the party member assigned to camouflage, so you dont need multiple characters with stealth. And evade and avoid surprise encounters are the same thing. If you pass the stealth check, you can choose to evade or fight, and if you choose to fight, you start out of combat, rather than forced immediately into combat with your formation flanked.
The party member assigned to camouflage is only checked after you camp outside. If you are coming from Drezen or you Teleport than the check becomes more random. Look at the log and you'll see it checks the Stealth rating of characters who don't specialize in the stat.
@@SlanderedGaming No I am pretty sure its whoever is assigned to camouflage even when travelling on the world map. If you have no one assigned, you will be forced to fight every single ambush and start in combat and surrounded. If you have someone assigned, you get to evade the encounter, and the check is always against the person assigned to camouflage.
I like the flamewarden flavor I think he would have been better with a fire pet at his side and more punch to his fire spells But I must admit...I'd rather pick a Hunter over a Ranger :/ because the hunter has the same spells as the ranger, with more options and up to lvl 6
Flamewarden would just need the PNP features, like giving the party the abilitiy to see through fog-spells, adding HIT chance e.g. And ofc the stupid Demonslayer is too strong here ^^
*spoiler warning for those who may not have played or played this far* I also found that Demonslayer ranger was excellent in taking out the other in act 2 for that early massive exp gain😂😂😂
sad part about rangers in DND 3.5 and Pathfinder is that Going Fighter and then specialising in Ranged weapons with all the bonus feats will literary make a stronger ranged character then going Ranger, but you loose out on some spells which you can have a party member buff you with any way.
The flamewarden in pnp has an ability that allows parties to see through fog spells, and removes their miss chance for party members. Now it is just a gimped arch in the game.
Oh wow that's actually a pretty cool ability.
There are a lot of archetypes that are weirdly weakened for the CRPG with missing or poorly implemented features. Even Demonslayer is only specifically good bc every other type of Ranger was made weaker by being forced to pick the "Demons of x" favored enemies, so its strength comes from a way they manufactured to make other Rangers worse lmfao.
I'd like to point out that the setting is what makes demonslayer so powerful. In the midnight isles where enemies are more mixed the demonslaywrs power level dips down a little because yoy can't actually garuntee demon enemies. It's like that antifae class, worked wonderfully for kingmaker but when fae weren't every 3rd enemy in the game its power level dragged down alot.
Yes this is true. Honestly the DLC's really twist the rankings around especially Through the Ashes since your max rank is 10.
This is why I love specialty classes in games like this with a variety of titles. Each one tends to have an enemy that is the focus so I think they are great for letting them shine. It's hard since their specializing makes sense thematically but from game balance its difficult.
Spot on Demonslayer. I always make Lann/Wendi and Camilla Demonslayers
These videos are very informative. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us
My pleasure!
It should be noted that Seelah gets a minute per level spell that gives good party members charisma bonus to all saves, which can make Espionage Expert's charisma as a casting stat useful. For inevitable excess, Nocticula's headband adds charisma to ranged damage.
Yup both good points.
To that end, the isles also added the sweet lies cape which essentially gives someone divine grace. That said, I’ve never put it on anyone but a Paladin because that shit stacks with actual divine grace. And that’s how you crack 35 reflex save on a heavy armor paladin
Flamewarden is a bad archetype, but breath of life on a non healer is good. For starters, its never ideal to have only one person to revive, because they themselves might die, and secondly, its quite likely if someone died that other party members need to be healed urgently, which will occupy your healer. Its particularly useful to have this feature on a character that can self resurrect. And self resurrection is useful. No, you dont want to die, but if not wanting something to happen doesnt mean a safeguard against it isnt good, quite the opposite. That is why last stand is useful.
I agree about resurrect on non healers but I feel like Debuffer's should be handling that not damage dealers. You want your damage dealers focused on whittling down whatever enemies are blowing your parties up.
Core class mechanics should be things you can regularly trigger and plan around. Self resurrection on a character who will probably be ranged is just not particularly useful. Especially considering the things this subclass sacrifices.
I HATE that Espionage Expert has a bonus to Stealth checks.... but LOOSES CAMOUFLAGE, that lets you use it in combat. Words cannot describe how much I loathe that
I love demon slayer. Add that with spawn slayer then you're really top of the food chain against the demons
At what level do you recommend dipping into demon slayer ? And how many levels shoul I grab before leveling spawn slayer again ?
@@CatroiOz 1 dip on demonslayer and the rest on spawn slayer
great thanks !@@phantomvulpe791
Demonslayer was my first build. But I didn't build it right (along with my party) so even on custom easy/normal I had a hard time. But I did learn.
We all had to learn and get better. :)
4:10 remider that Perception scales of WIS which this archetype doesn't need, so Trapfinding here is not a bonus, but compensation.
With the new DLC coming out next month and having just picked up the last one..
The Lord of Nothing, going to start a new playthrough with a new character and DemonSlayer/Ranger sounds perfect after checking out this video 👍
Yup that should work very well!
Rant time: I do not understand why Owlcat felt the need to nerf Ranger by splitting up the Evil Outsider favored enemy into three different types of demons only to turn around and put Demonslayer in as a class alternative. It just makes no sense to me at all and is one of the major justifications for the Tabletop Tweaks mod being a must have for me.
Yeah it's a pretty weird choice.
Damn you sold me on Demonslayer for next run. Thinking Lawful Good Legend 20 Demonslayer / 20 Slayer Deliverer. ⚔️
Yeah that's an extremely powerful run.
i really like this class, it has the best druid spells, full BaB growth, additional combat feats, that are usually blocked by "requires fighter level X" or are just hard to get, for free. PLUS, you get +10 Attack bonus for you, and +5 for your companions (if you take Ranger's bond), against every demon (at least in my case, i don't know why, but i can choose "evil outsider" on every ranger, not only demonslayer). favoured terrain is a nice bonus, and quarry as a swift action is 10/10 ability, especially if you use gloves, that give enemy -2AC and sickened condition (-2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks) after you use it (the name of those: Big Game Gloves).
And at the end, i want to say that Nomad Sub-Class is op, it makes you a tank, essentially doubles your DMG, and is good for attacks of opportunity build.
Another hit.
Thank you!
What are some good classes to combine with Demonslayer if any? Besides the Mutation warrior ofc lol
Obligatory comment: dip into vivisectionist. Sneak attack damage FTW.
Gendarme can give some nice bonuses but I wouldn't dip until after choosing your pet. I also like Vivi as 1 level will still be covered by boon and give sneak attack and mutagens.
be careful with dips. if memory serves the ranger pet doesnt get full progression unlike the paladin druid hunter or sylvan sorcerer, so boon companion is a required feat if you plan on riding on one and if you dip your pet will suffer if the dipping class does not have animal progression. with the other four classes i mentioned, you could dip and just take boon companion and your pet wouldnt suffer, but a class like ranger, it will suffer even with boon companion (similar to a cleric with animal domain or an oracle with nature mystery dipping).
with that said i like sohei dip on ranger, as well as mad dog. if you dont care about pet and want to go a more caster hybrid like eldritch knight with your ranger, id go more into either freebooter or espionage expert which is what those archtypes are better geared to do than demonslayer.
If you are into pets then Divine Hound from the Hunter class pairs very well, provided that your pet is a Dog. Basically this allows to continue specializing in ranged DPS but enhances your pet synergy. Also Dog is just an awesome pet (in RL and also in WOTR).
I definitely concur with Divine Hunter and also the warning regarding dipping into classes that do not have animal progression.
Another downside to storm walker is most demons in this game are immune to electricity
Yup so you have to take a Mythic Ability.
easy to get around that. any class/build based around a specific element is gonna take ascendant element anyway
I think Freebooter is a good choice for Delamere. Because her attack roll bonuses could be applied to summoned skeletons. I am still working out my ideal Lich, but as part of that I am thinking more about the Grave Guards. I think they benefit me most by taking classes that allow me to pump up my skeleton army. With enough bonuses I can make skeletons with 4 attacks per round with over +35 to hit. Maybe I can raise it even further once I actually build the party.
Ohhhh a competent Lich summoner sounds like a fun time.
@@SlanderedGaming And it is archetypal for a Lich. The GG's are mostly martial, so the Lich needs to do a bit of everything. That's why I use a Mystic Theurge. All the arcane and divine buffing, and the spell damage is my job too. Everyone else's function is to competently fight while boosting my summons, so I can overwhelm even demon lords with a tidal wave of bone and steel, all while I stay at range, untouched while I fire off Battering Blast spells that hit 6 times each.
While I hear melee liches are powerful, the GG's don't really have the spell support to build a well-rounded party if you aren't a full caster. Even if you get lich spells, it doesn't make too much difference if you are front-lining the enemy with your thralls.
Such great content you provide! Just found your channel and would love to see more. Right now I'm wondering about all kinds of Legend builds... who doesn't love multiclassing? 😉😎✌️
Anyway, I wish I had lots of money to give you for your work, but I'm broke atm, so a small tip must do for now, yet I'm having a hard time finding a way to do that even... I recommend you fix that for us tippers ✌️😎
Thank you so much! There's a link in the description for those who would like to tip. I just don't advertise it. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming I must be blind or something, but found the link and did my thing. Hope you keep making those build guides 👍✌️😎😉
Demonslayer is bonkers. Also I wouldn't rank trip so high. On difficulty above normal pet trip attacks are very hard to hit so its mostly wasted feat/ability for pets.
On Core my Dog regularly connects but you have to invest in the pet's CMB. You are correct if you just put trip on them it's not going to work particularly well.
always felt like Demonslayer is almost a required dip for all melee party members
Ranger has long been my favorite base class in most RPG but in wrath of the righteous, The hunter and slayer kind of steel it's nich
Yeah it has competition.
I think most people give a PC or Mook 4 levels of freebooter max. If you're 10 mutation warrior 6 other class its a nice bonus. More micro management. Worth calling out demonslayer as an absurd 1 level dip and absurd full class. The only question with it is when do you dip out to something else.
Honestly pets are way op in wrath. Having like 4-5 guys on pets with teamwork feats is broken. Its like how many attacks of oppertunity can you get it one round
Yup absolutely agree.
Bonus to elemental damage is not very good now with the nerf to elemental barrage. Really hurt alot of builds.
That nerf to elemental barrage just makes no sense to me.
Hard to believe we are almost through with this series.
I know right! Feeling real proud of myself! 😂
Wait for the prestige classes tho😂
anutha banger
Thank you!
Hey slandered idk if you'll reply to this comment (hopefully you do lol) but i have a question. I want to do a dual wielding Demon slayer, because i'm required to pick a fighting style i can pick two weapon fighting without the required DEX right?.
If I remember correctly yes the requirement is removed for that class.
@@SlanderedGaming your a life saver friend!. May Iomedae bless you!
Honestly, there is no reason not to pick Demonslayer in this game, it's so good!
Agreed it is easy and fantastic.
demonslayer and go full doom guy. rip and tear until it's done.
I love stormwalker idea, its feats a lot less
😂
One minor quibble, it sounds like you are saying "death kneel" in these videos instead of "death knell", which is pronounced exactly like it is spelled except for the silent K. I could be mishearing you though!
Nope you are hearing correctly one other person mentioned it. I honestly have thought it was kneel my entire life. LMFAO
@@SlanderedGaming Hahaha, that has to be one of the awkward parts of being a youtuber, eh? We all have those, but most of us aren't exposed to a massive public audience that can comment on it...
Flamewalker is terrible for PCs but would be hilarious for NPC enemies with that Phoenix Blast and Revive. 😂
True. LOL
Sadly its gimped here. On PNP it has so much intresting stuff on him :<
Imagine he could revive others x times per day automaticly ^^
I think you are too generous here. Stormwalker for this game is a straight F. You’d never, ever, want the trades it gets over the base class. Especially in a game with about 90% of the enemies are immune to lightning.
Perhaps, but ascendant element does exist.
@@TheRealNemesisX right - but then you’ll burn a mythic feat to get paltry damage to your bow shots. All the while trading in a pet and the amazing quarry etc etc. F!
@@quincymims2580 lol, I feel the passion.. and I agree I can only imagine there's some roleplay element for the class since i'd never use it.. then again if paizo makes a new adventure path where this class shines.. we'll be back - until then -> !F!
I don't know why but the F paired with the exclamation point has me dying laughing. Nemesis I feel the passion too.😂😂
Yeah definitely D level heh.
Regarding stealth on the world map, its checked only against the party member assigned to camouflage, so you dont need multiple characters with stealth. And evade and avoid surprise encounters are the same thing. If you pass the stealth check, you can choose to evade or fight, and if you choose to fight, you start out of combat, rather than forced immediately into combat with your formation flanked.
The party member assigned to camouflage is only checked after you camp outside. If you are coming from Drezen or you Teleport than the check becomes more random. Look at the log and you'll see it checks the Stealth rating of characters who don't specialize in the stat.
@@SlanderedGaming No I am pretty sure its whoever is assigned to camouflage even when travelling on the world map. If you have no one assigned, you will be forced to fight every single ambush and start in combat and surrounded. If you have someone assigned, you get to evade the encounter, and the check is always against the person assigned to camouflage.
@@SlanderedGaming You can assign the person and not camp.
I like the flamewarden flavor
I think he would have been better with a fire pet at his side and more punch to his fire spells
But I must admit...I'd rather pick a Hunter over a Ranger :/
because the hunter has the same spells as the ranger, with more options and up to lvl 6
I take Demonslayer over anything Hunter provides but outside of that yeah I agree.
Flamewarden would just need the PNP features, like giving the party the abilitiy to see through fog-spells, adding HIT chance e.g.
And ofc the stupid Demonslayer is too strong here ^^
👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
*spoiler warning for those who may not have played or played this far*
I also found that Demonslayer ranger was excellent in taking out the other in act 2 for that early massive exp gain😂😂😂
There are pretty bad story ramifications for doing that though right? At least for Daeran?
@SlanderedGaming yeah he dies brutally lol which is shame cause i love Daeran but one playthrough I wanted to see if it could be done or not
sad part about rangers in DND 3.5 and Pathfinder is that Going Fighter and then specialising in Ranged weapons with all the bonus feats will literary make a stronger ranged character then going Ranger, but you loose out on some spells which you can have a party member buff you with any way.
I think that makes sense. A ranger is adept at living off the land, not doing damage. A fighter is someone focused on doing damage.
Yup I would agree unless you are going Demonslayer.
And it’s an even worse case in 5e, tragically.
@@EvilFuzzy9 yeah i know