Nice video - I had the same issue when I installed my Jet with the bag filling quickly. I mounted the infeed line similar to your set up which I believe caused the issue. I moved thing around so I could get a 5 ft level run into the intake of the cyclone which improved the air / dust separation.
You clearly have a lot of productivity from your shop. Now that your dust problem is under control, maybe you could spend a few weeks organizing your clutter. Great video! I was interested the whole way, and after seeing about 40 TH-cam videos on dust collection, I have to say this is one of the best!!!
I have the 1.5 c-flux the baby brother to your’s, my shop is at least half the size if not less and right now I have been using a 20’ x 4” flex hose and I’m super happy with the results and can’t wait to install duct work but like you said not very glamorous purchase so the duct work will have to wait. So glad you’re as happy as I am with your D/C. Thanks again always enjoy your videos.
I have helped troubleshoot a few upgrades on a few dust collection systems and would like to comment. The new system you have is probably a little starved for air. By installing a at least 4' length of 8" duct directly to the intake and putting an adjustable opening in the end to supply extra air to the fan in a bypassing way, it will get the volume going through the separator up to where the centrifugal forces in the separator are enough to throw the solids out against the sides and get them to drop into the collection bin before they can get sucked into the blower. By increasing the sizes of your ducting system you could accomplish some of the same. Using an ammeter on the blower will tell you the sweet spot for the motor. Using a manometer or Magnahelic gauge on the ducting will show you the weak spots. You have a very capable machine, through tuning, the system can be brought up to a higher performance. You ARE getting way too much volume of chips in the filter, this would indicate that a lot of dust is going in there also. Very informative video, good luck on the tuning. BTW: A flexible joint in the intake pipe right before the separator will keep a lot of the mechanical noise of the machine from the ductwork and into the frame of the house and upstairs. You can get mufflers for the exhaust of the separator to quiet down that part also. When the runs are tuned and the system is balanced, the sound lessens somewhat. I hope this helps, I know this is way late and you may never even see it.
Dust deputy is 99.1 % free of stuff going to the collector. I have been running both of my dust deputy's for 3 months over 15 gallons of fine bandsaw dust and NO dust is in the filters or in the smaller shop vac with the smaller dust deputy. Like new inside both of them. Check for a leak in your separator compartment that you empty. Dust Deputy says in their manual that is what causes dust to get to the filter. Both of mine or sealed and there is no dust or chips at all going to the dust collector or the shop vac. By the way. I enjoy your videos. Hard work and a good sense of humor and adventure. Outstanding!
Best dust collection video I've ever seen. I actually have the dust deputy plastic cyclone and no dust goes into the bag until the can is completely full. Oneida must just have it figured out.
I have a great deal of experience with cyclone type dust collection systems. You have pretty much maxed out the options for dust collection size with the collector inside the shop space which is fine. A outside collector has it's advantages and disadvantages as with any equipment. For me the real issue is the most effective and efficient use of the collector pipe and use of blast gates and of course the pipes sealed well. The use of sweeps versus elbow style turns and running the largest pipe for as long as it can be run all makes a difference. Setting up the duct pipes can be as important as the dust collector system itself. You are right at the cusp of putting a dust collector system outdoors but unless your location is right your option is what works for you and besides you do not have to build a shelter over the collector to keep the weather out. I always love your content and keep on doing what you do so well!
There are a tremendous amount of things I have little or no experience with. Woodworking is something I have a natural hunger to learn and know as much about as I possibly can, it is a comfortable wheelhouse with me.
Matt, I too purchased a 3 hp dust collector I've got a 1.5 hp delta that sits in a shed just outside my shop. The delta is 120 volts the new one is 220, Got some wiring to do also adding 6 inch ducting. Had 4 inch flex which really cut down the vacuum pressure . Had built a barrel type thein chip collector that was pretty good at the beginning. My bags were pretty clear. What I failed to realize is how clogged my bags were getting. Had a similar dust removal issue that you and your dad delt with. I'm in the middle of thinking about a top hat which is time and material which is mostly on hand or a 6 inch dust deputy cyclone. Bought a wind meter that actually has cfm in the mix. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and process! :
Dust collection is an important part to your shop! I originally had an Oneida 1.5 Hp from the 90's that had the micro filter inside the cyclone. Horrible to clean! I upgraded to another Oneida 3Hp with a setup pretty much like yours. A big difference is that the micro filter doesnt fill up with larger chips unless the main bin gets filled up. Change the main bin often and I never have to worry about cleaning the micro filter.
Great video and analysis. I'm currently planning out my system and this was helpful. I've been debating over a 3hp or full size 5hp and since I have the space it sounds like 5hp is the way to go, although either would be an improvement over the 1.5hp I have now. Thanks for taking the time to test the old system first. This gives me a better idea of where I'm at now.
If it helps at all for your comparison, I have a CVMAX and it has a much smaller container and the end of the filter stack than the bag on your Laguna. Also a much taller cyclone, obviously. I think i have emptied my 55 gallon drum about a dozen times over the last year, and I've only vacuumed out the little filter drop-out container once. I usually bang on the filters to loosen that stuff up when I empty the drum, and very little falls out. It's possible my filters are super clogged, but I've not noticed any reduction in airflow. I also haven't measured... not very scientific, I know. My setup Just Works (tm) so I'm good with not knowing my data. I do appreciate the level of detail you've gone into on this video, though. I wish more people in the woodworking world paid this much attention to dust collection. Great video, sir.
The reason you don't see much dust/chips at your filter is because the Clearvue is a great design. I haven't seen a coffee cups worth of dust out of my filters on my CV1800 in 15 years. Cleaning filters isn't even on my mind. Might knock around on them once every few years. Take a look under them and might see a tablespoon of dust.
I really appreciated your honesty regarding the quality of separation. This is definitely an upgrade over what you have and given your space limitations was no doubt the best option. The problem with these 'compact' cyclones is that their separation is poor, as you witnessed by the volume of dust/chips making it to your filter. Because the separation is poor and filter clogging is a problem manufacturers have to outfit their collectors with agitators. If the pleats are really tight on a filter the agitators don't work well so they have to widen the pleat spacing which translates to reduced surface area and reduced air flow. According to Pentz you want 4:1 ratio of CFM to filter surface area for a Merv15 filter. The Laguna filters are only 109 sq ft., not enough, but they had to do it because of clogging from poor separation of fines. I definitely agree with you regarding full size collectors. If you have the space for it, get a ClearVue or make your own. This design is about as good as it gets. I have a PSI Tempest 15" impeller 3.5HP, which Bill Pentz advised on the re-design. It's similar to the Clear Vue in a lot of ways but lacks the downward pointing "air ramp" which helps a lot in basically shooting material down into the bin. I like it but will likely build a proper cyclone when I can find the time.
obvious installer error (leaks ,poor ducting, no make up air) .my shop is climate controlled. D/C is in sound proof box outside my choice. No noise pollution No air pollution . i clean my filter monthly. My A/C filter not yet. and according to my Dylos air quality meter The air in my shop is five times cleaner than outside i'm a cabinet maker..... and i dont vacuum or clean my computer screen ever BEST SYSTEM EVER maybe look at your install... GO clear vue MAKE AMERICAS AIR GREAT AGAIN
Matt around the 19 minute mark I see the part that will greatly improve separation sitting on top of the lid of the drum, really easy install between the the cone and the drum! When I first got my PFLUX 3, I noticed it was separating ok but not great. You definitely should not be seeing so much large chips getting into the filter! After I contacted Laguna and installed the part it's been bang on as advertised. I think you're correct in that shorter cyclones won't be able to do as good of a job as larger, but I think these DC's are the best short barrel collectors currently on the market.
Someone else also mentioned this to me. I installed it last night but hadn't used it yet. I'm mostly frustrated that this isn't noted anywhere in the manual
It's because Laguna didn't really realize the airstream was an issue upon initial release (at first they didn't include this part with everything, but then a few people called them and explained similar issues and Laguna started including the part) post manual. It basically reshapes and tailors the airflow to give the cyclonic action a kick in the seat of the pants and make it more cyclonic. Oddly enough, this wasn't an issue with their 1.5HP C and PFlux, it's only when you get into the higher horsepower.
Matt ; have you installed the deflector bar and if so did you see any improved separation ? I am in the midst of installing my new PFlux 3, I've read Bill Pentz's online articles, I've added a neutral vane and I am considering adding a ramp as well, Matt and Nathaniel ; would either of you have any experience with these mods ?
If you are getting a lot of chips in the filter him there might be an air leak between the emptying container and the cyclone.. My cyclone initially had the same issue.
There was one time while planing and jointing I wasn't paying attention to my cyclone bin, I filled up the bin, the cyclone and all the ducting to the planer. Packed solid. It took about 2 hours to clear it out.
I built my own two-stage system similar to DIY Tyler G using a 2 hp Harbor Freight single-stage dust collector modified with an Oneida cyclone with 30 gallon trash can and a Wynn Environmental filter (9L300NANO filter with the adapter hooks FGL-6 with an orange box bucket attached to the bottom of the filter). I read somewhere that it is important that you have a straight run feeding into the cyclone cone of approximately 6 feet or more. I am using 4" pvc pipe with mostly 45 degree connections in my shop and have minimal dust collecting in my filter and the bucket. Big improvement over my two-stage shop vac design.
The straight section is one of the things Bill Pentz mentions on his website. Definitely one of those in a perfect world scenarios. Having a straight pipe coming out of this would be pretty dumb as there would be a pipe floating 4.5' off the ground acting like a wall in the shop lol
Congratulations on getting the new DC hooked up and running! Impressive results all the way to the tools. Like that large easy to disconnect bucket with wheels too! Now you just need to put ski’s on it for winter!
Thanks for this video.As you said there's lots of statements out there about less than stellar separation but no demonstrations. I have been wondering how well these machines worked and I really appreciate you doing this.I am using a trash can separator and it passes less chips to the secondary collection bag than the Laguna. I guess I expected the Laguna to work better than it does.
Hey Matt... great video, was surprised at how dirty the powermatic filter was... I have the Laguna 2 hp unit which I bought 2 years ago.. that also gets chips in the filter bag... good luck with the unit, looks like a great improvement over what you had...
Had wondered about the numbers on that. As impressive as the difference was, it is kind of amazing that they are still higher since you had to hold it back due to the meter.
Hell, if I knew you were going to be doing all this testing I would have offered to let you borrow some of my stuff lol I've got all kinds of toys for testing flow and pressure, including an anemometer for airflow (like you bought), manometer (for pressure), and decibel meter. Thanks for all the testing and comparisons of the two machines Matt. I know how much effort goes into that sort of thing
And quite the improvement it is. It's interesting to hear the difference in tone between the two, even if the sound level is similar. A spectrum analysis would be interesting for numbers/stats/data nerds like me, but it's pretty clear that the new cyclone would be much heavier towards the upper end. More like a shop vac in comparison. You're making me think harder about a dust collector now, as I currently just have a shop vac with cyclone, and that's not sufficient for most free standing power tools. Having the cyclone is nice though, much nicer than dealing with the filter constantly.
I have a older Clearview It's 10 years old. I have never cleaned the filters. I have a pan at the bottom of the filter. I don't get dust in them. A true cyclone get much better separation.
Hi Matt Enjoy all your videos and this one was very informative. A couple of thoughts on your separation problem. No doubt the compact cyclone is less effective but there may be a couple of issues with your ducting at the unit. The first is the reducer at the unit inlet which will cause a decrease in air velocity prior to entering the cyclone. The decrease in wood chip velocity may be allowing more carry over. The other potential problem is the elbow at the inlet. A straight run at the inlet would likely reduce turbulence in the cyclone and improve performance. Keep the videos coming. Great stuff
I don't disagree that those thing would make it more better but I'm sure I'm better off than those who are using the included 8 to 4 reducer with 4" flex hose hahaha thanks!!
Something you can do to improve the performance of your dust collection system is to add vibrators. They have been used on conveyance systems for many years and come a variety sizes and mountings. The magnetically mounted ones are kind of handy because they are easy to move around. You put them on your lines that have the most problems with buildup and plugging, usually the longest ones and they keep the sawdust particles from sticking to the duct walls. You probably just need small ones for here and there and they can be wired into your power tools or you can use a current sensing switch that activates them when you turn on your machines. You can even mount them on your cyclonic separator to continuously knock down wood chips into the collector bin. They are used in industry and agriculture a lot to keep conveyors from plugging up.
It's just startling to see how much more complex and "DIY" these systems are compared to a quality vacuum chambered dust collection system. I have a Felder RL 160, it came in a box, unpacked the box and rolled it in the shop ... ready ! Less then 1 minute. No coalcking, no screwing, no nothing. Plug and play. I can put the hose in a dustbin and it sucks it empty in seconds. No canisters, no filters, no nothing. I would never ever go back to regular dust collection. Felder really is great in that regard.
Matt, I have the Clearvue Cyclone in my shop with 6" ducting. Regarding pick up, It lessens what it will pick up when the 35 gal bin is about 80 full. Regarding separation, I clean my double stack of filters about once a month. I never see any chips whatsoever in the clean out, only fine particles.
have been watching you for sometime now, and it is a feel good show. you are honest and a excellent family man. always look for your new videos. keep up the great content. Thanks, in more ways always.
Matt - you can try sticking Dynamat on the metal part of the drum. this will reduce noise due to vibration, since the drum is acting as a large sounding board.
My tempest rarely has anything at all below the filter. I typically check it every few barrel (55 gallon) changes. Make sure you don't have any leaks. Also it could be that the filter is not passing enough air through and thus slowing the cyclone separation. My tempest has a 6ft tall filter but the diameter is only 16".
same for my tempest, separation is very good. Its unfortunate PSI doesn't sell them anymore, it was a tremendous value compared to other collectors out there. Also the sound level (particularly with the exhaust muffler installed) is much lower. Similar unscientific tests for me with my iphone but I get readings in the 70's.
David Blehar I have a muffler but haven't installed it. In my 30x30 garage it is no louder than the jointer or surfacer and I already am wearing hearing protection. When I mount it more permanent I plan to add the muffler.
Definitely recommend installing it, as it does make a pretty significant difference. I had installed it out of the blocks when I got the collector. It does have the draw back of pushing the filter stack out further away from the cyclone so the whole works takes up more space, so a while back I thought, maybe I'll take that muffler off to save some room, not sure it makes a difference anyhow. Well, didn't take long to put it back on, quite a noticeable difference in sound. My collector is right next to my lathe so when I'm sanding bowls I have a chute set up for collection. With the muffler on I can stand there very comfortably without hearing protection.
Thanks for the video. I have been looking for someone (that actually knows what they're talking about) that does one on pipe diameters, velocities, CFM's and applications for the various configurations. For example, What applications need more velocity? Miter saw? How do you achieve that given pipe diameter, length, etc.
Good video bud I have the same system I love it ,what you could try doing like I did I used a couple coats of rainX on my collector window worked great on mine
GREAT job Matt, definitely an upgrade to the shop. 12:15 Hey buddy, let me get MY air filter mask then you can blast away at the filter for 7 minutes with the blower. What a friend you are! !! !!!
Tip for you, by transitioning from your 6” to 8” right as the air enters the cyclone, you are slowing the air flow and therefore decreasing the effect from the cyclone. I had the same issue with mine and actually had much better results by running the pipe from the main system pretty far inside the fitting to the cyclone and just taping around it to seal it up.. kind of creating a nozzle shooting the air into the cyclone at a higher speed.... if that makes sense.
It does make sense. It also is a similar idea to Bill Pentz's neutral vane that he states is the easiest and most affective mod you can make to a cyclone.
Matt so the short of it is if you have the room go with a full size cyclone for better Results!!!!!! Thank gosh i didnt buy that Exact model on blackfriday weekend like i was going to
My 2 y.o. son and I watched together and thoroughly enjoyed. He loves watching shop videos. The guys at a website called ToolMetrix noted on their FB page that they had the same separation issues with the 3hp unit (but not the 1.5hp unit) and called Laguna about it. Laguna sent them a “restrictor plate” to install between the cyclone and dust bin. That seemed to take care of the issue for them anyways. May want to call about it or not? Just thought I’d share...keep up the good work, love your stuff
Well looks like that part is included but isn't mentioned in the manual. I have some extra parts since I'm not using bags and figured this plate was some part of the bag holder. I'll install this and see what difference it makes. Thanks again
Some thing interesting that I've seen with Oneida collectors like Marc's is that while chips don't make it through the cyclone dust does and it needs to be dislodged. If he cleaned the filter per Oneida's recommendations I'm sure his dust bin would have more than he showed but still not near how much your getting. Good DC is a tough investment but after having it it's hard to consider going with out it.
I'm curious about the laguna dust collector as far as how well you liked it? I did notice that when you moved to a different shop you got a different one
Hey Matt, Love the Video, Re the Cyclone and efficiency. Talk to the manufacturer about minimum air flow through the cyclone to produce max efficiency. You may need more air flowing through to properly separate the chips and dust. Something worth trying is to false load (Open other blast gates) to increase flow into the cyclone, maybe on the longest run and not so much to dip the pressure to the tool you are using. Also Try to minimise the lengths of Flexi as these are where the pressure drop is greatest. Good luck..
So interestingly, in the video when I moved from using the jointer to the planer, I forgot to close the blast gate on the jointer. I did end up closing it when the camera angle changed and you can see the collector with the debris that got into the bag.
Hey Matt, two other points to consider. I looked at Laguna's assembly video and at7:50 ish he talks about the angle of the connector. Has says 30 deg one way and up to 60 deg the other way although he states 30 deg he demonstrates 60 deg. You seem to have yours mounted 60 deg to the Left looking from the front as he calls it and maybe this is degrading the performance to some degree .the Other point is about the Level in the Bin versus separation efficiency. Did you note any fall off in performance as the bin got up or over 70% full?
Im pretty sure you will pass a fraction of that much dust past the cyclone if you can adjust your inlet pipe so the dust is shooting toward the outside wall of the cyclone vs. straight at the outlet tube. You are essentially bypassing the cyclone's most effective zone by shooting dust toward the center. Make that change and I think you will be much happier with the results.
Interesting. My understanding is that HVAC pipe was not sturdy enough for a 500+ CFM dust collector. The understanding is it would collapse if one of the inlets were fully or partially blocked. What are others experience with HVAC pipe?
Matt, great video. I like how your shop looks how it looks, like you actually work in it. Ever think about donating your saw dust and shavings to horse or animal shelters?
Could the extra material coming through be to a leak or small hole somewhere in the system? On a much smaller scale, my dust deputy would throw material through to the shop vac, all because my system had a small leak between the lid and the cyclone. Just wondered if that could be the potential cause.
So Matt, what we've learned after all the math is that you spent a lot of money and it really sucks. I've been looking at adding serious dust collection to my basement shop. This video really helped!!!! I'm beginning to form a better opinion of Laguna tools. Cheers! Joe Faraone -- Ashburn, VA
How much of your cyclone performance (ie. material in filter) do you think was affected by having an elbow so close to the main inlet? I've read that it's highly recommended to have at least five feet of straight pipe to minimize turbulence in the cyclone.
I think given the price difference to a full size unit, I'd have built a small shed outside and run the pipe out to it. You never use the one door anyway and it would no longer block part of the door you do use. You would have gotten even better collection most likely and it would have freed up some more shop space. Plus you wouldn't have to mess with the garage door to empty the collector.
Matt, enjoy the videos, do have a question though regarding the Laguna dust collector system. Have admired their quality for awhile, what made you choose them over the many others?? I realize height played a role as will for me, also 3 hp vs. 2 hp considering the shop size? I guess what were your criteria, if you don’t mind sharing? Some of he reviews in early 17’ were not that favorable, thus the extra plate at the bottom of the cyclone etc. and your experience thus far. I am very close to order a unit trying to decide 2 vs. 3 hp maybe over kill, the extra is not that much, so thoughts?? Thanks
....I feel kind of awkward seeing silicon put in the negative air-pressured area..... I have not seen the outside of the box/assembly. Me, I would have dissemble and silicon everything re-assembling. A simpler way, as effective too, would be taping any outside joint. ;) But your whole venture seems successful though :D
I got the laguna 1.5hp pflux unit and agree with your build comments. I had to use both the youtube videos as well as the instructions to put it together. I also noticed on mine the same as you did, when just starting to fill the bin, chips and dust went into the collection bin below the filter, but then once some was in the bin below the cyclone, it stopped. What was your reasoning to get that 3hp cflux vs the pflux? In any case, Good video. :)
Matt, thanks for your update. I purchased a 1 1/2 hp Laguna a few years back and its performance is not near what I would like. Is the only solution to obtaining more flow higher hp? Thanks again for your video!
Thank you Matt. I also work in my garage. Everything is on wheels, I move my wife's car out and then set up the tools. I guess I am going to look for more power. Again, really appreciate your videos!
As a side note, to get the velocity-up, you could try installing an open vent in the system, I would use an AMP-meter on the motor to find the sweet-spot of enough air through the system.
Matthew Cremona Hindsight is always better than foresight: wouldn't it be better if you put your dust collector outside of your working area. Space and added noise would be solved. Since you cut your own lumber you can build a double walled housing (noise and thermal insulation) just big enough to fit your dust collector ...
great. I'm getting ready to set up a dc system and only have 110 available in the shop (garage). I was wondering if my 1.5hp Delta was big enough to make it worth the effort or not. Thanks again.
Great machine. You can cut down on noise by getting rid of filter and exhaust hose to outside with a home made muffler. The advantage are no filter to clog, 100% clean air in shop, less noise, far less money spent on vacuum.
I've done this sort of, my DC outlet goes into the ceiling into the attic above the garage and aims at a soffit. It is a lot of noise that ends up outside, do you have any examples of a muffler Paul?
That was an excellent explanation, Matt. I'm going to stick with my shop vacs for now...heck they were a big step up from nothing, which I used most of my life :>).
The cyclone needs Velocity to separate the dust-particles from the air, by using the Reducer, the cyclone is being starved, which in turn is stressing the squirrel-cage fan and keeps some of the dust in suspension into the filter., you may experience blade-failure in the future because of the air-starvation, also the motor will draw more amperage than if the air-flow is flowing at the designed rating. As for the noise, I use Auto-undercoating to deaden the sound being broadcast from the painted steel surfaces of the unit. The undercoating is sold in aerosol-cans at Auto parts stores. I hope I have helped.
Yeah, I was going to point that out myself. The drop-in/addon cyclones actually have rated velocity ranges in which they work for that very reason. With these whole system models they likely assume you're going to run the intake diameter for the bulk of the run, or he overlooked that section of the instructions.
Not so. If you have no airflow as in no gates open, the motor is still running at the advertised rpm and the amperage draw will be at the minimum for the motor. On the other hand. If you have nothing connected to the cyclone, no ducting at all. The motor will still run at the advertised rpm but the amperage draw will be at the maximum amount and will create an overheating condition in the motor.
30 minute video about dust collection? I’m in heaven!
Nice video - I had the same issue when I installed my Jet with the bag filling quickly. I mounted the infeed line similar to your set up which I believe caused the issue. I moved thing around so I could get a 5 ft level run into the intake of the cyclone which improved the air / dust separation.
I love that you're using your bench to illustrate multiple points, namely that a bench is meant to be used and respectfully abused.
Glad you caught my subtle message there :)
I just thought "more crap to clean up", and "Didn't he have any paper handy?" LOL!
You clearly have a lot of productivity from your shop. Now that your dust problem is under control, maybe you could spend a few weeks organizing your clutter. Great video! I was interested the whole way, and after seeing about 40 TH-cam videos on dust collection, I have to say this is one of the best!!!
I have the 1.5 c-flux the baby brother to your’s, my shop is at least half the size if not less and right now I have been using a 20’ x 4” flex hose and I’m super happy with the results and can’t wait to install duct work but like you said not very glamorous purchase so the duct work will have to wait. So glad you’re as happy as I am with your D/C. Thanks again always enjoy your videos.
I have helped troubleshoot a few upgrades on a few dust collection systems and would like to comment. The new system you have is probably a little starved for air. By installing a at least 4' length of 8" duct directly to the intake and putting an adjustable opening in the end to supply extra air to the fan in a bypassing way, it will get the volume going through the separator up to where the centrifugal forces in the separator are enough to throw the solids out against the sides and get them to drop into the collection bin before they can get sucked into the blower. By increasing the sizes of your ducting system you could accomplish some of the same. Using an ammeter on the blower will tell you the sweet spot for the motor. Using a manometer or Magnahelic gauge on the ducting will show you the weak spots. You have a very capable machine, through tuning, the system can be brought up to a higher performance. You ARE getting way too much volume of chips in the filter, this would indicate that a lot of dust is going in there also. Very informative video, good luck on the tuning. BTW: A flexible joint in the intake pipe right before the separator will keep a lot of the mechanical noise of the machine from the ductwork and into the frame of the house and upstairs. You can get mufflers for the exhaust of the separator to quiet down that part also. When the runs are tuned and the system is balanced, the sound lessens somewhat. I hope this helps, I know this is way late and you may never even see it.
Dust deputy is 99.1 % free of stuff going to the collector. I have been running both of my dust deputy's for 3 months over 15 gallons of fine bandsaw dust and NO dust is in the filters or in the smaller shop vac with the smaller dust deputy. Like new inside both of them. Check for a leak in your separator compartment that you empty. Dust Deputy says in their manual that is what causes dust to get to the filter. Both of mine or sealed and there is no dust or chips at all going to the dust collector or the shop vac. By the way. I enjoy your videos. Hard work and a good sense of humor and adventure. Outstanding!
Best dust collection video I've ever seen. I actually have the dust deputy plastic cyclone and no dust goes into the bag until the can is completely full. Oneida must just have it figured out.
Thanks Todd!
I have a great deal of experience with cyclone type dust collection systems. You have pretty much maxed out the options for dust collection size with the collector inside the shop space which is fine. A outside collector has it's advantages and disadvantages as with any equipment. For me the real issue is the most effective and efficient use of the collector pipe and use of blast gates and of course the pipes sealed well. The use of sweeps versus elbow style turns and running the largest pipe for as long as it can be run all makes a difference. Setting up the duct pipes can be as important as the dust collector system itself. You are right at the cusp of putting a dust collector system outdoors but unless your location is right your option is what works for you and besides you do not have to build a shelter over the collector to keep the weather out.
I always love your content and keep on doing what you do so well!
Is there anything you don't have a great deal of experience with? :)
There are a tremendous amount of things I have little or no experience with. Woodworking is something I have a natural hunger to learn and know as much about as I possibly can, it is a comfortable wheelhouse with me.
I like chicken.
Arf ! Woof, Woof.
I bought the 1.5hp cflux few months ago. It too is a well designed machine that empties so much better than a standard DC.
How large is your shop? I'm debating between models.
Matt, I too purchased a 3 hp dust collector I've got a 1.5 hp delta that sits in a shed just outside my shop. The delta is 120 volts the new one is 220, Got some wiring to do also adding 6 inch ducting. Had 4 inch flex which really cut down the vacuum pressure . Had built a barrel type thein chip collector that was pretty good at the beginning. My bags were pretty clear. What I failed to realize is how clogged my bags were getting. Had a similar dust removal issue that you and your dad delt with. I'm in the middle of thinking about a top hat which is time and material which is mostly on hand or a 6 inch dust deputy cyclone. Bought a wind meter that actually has cfm in the mix. Thanks for sharing the thoughts and process! :
30 mins and vintage Cremona footage! YES!
Hahaha plenty more where that came from
Dust collection is an important part to your shop! I originally had an Oneida 1.5 Hp from the 90's that had the micro filter inside the cyclone. Horrible to clean! I upgraded to another Oneida 3Hp with a setup pretty much like yours. A big difference is that the micro filter doesnt fill up with larger chips unless the main bin gets filled up. Change the main bin often and I never have to worry about cleaning the micro filter.
Great video and analysis. I'm currently planning out my system and this was helpful. I've been debating over a 3hp or full size 5hp and since I have the space it sounds like 5hp is the way to go, although either would be an improvement over the 1.5hp I have now. Thanks for taking the time to test the old system first. This gives me a better idea of where I'm at now.
Very cool to see the results from your tests. I'm glad you pointed out the negatives of it as well.
If it helps at all for your comparison, I have a CVMAX and it has a much smaller container and the end of the filter stack than the bag on your Laguna. Also a much taller cyclone, obviously. I think i have emptied my 55 gallon drum about a dozen times over the last year, and I've only vacuumed out the little filter drop-out container once. I usually bang on the filters to loosen that stuff up when I empty the drum, and very little falls out. It's possible my filters are super clogged, but I've not noticed any reduction in airflow. I also haven't measured... not very scientific, I know. My setup Just Works (tm) so I'm good with not knowing my data. I do appreciate the level of detail you've gone into on this video, though. I wish more people in the woodworking world paid this much attention to dust collection. Great video, sir.
It helps. Many people read the comments so this will be helpful. thanks!
The reason you don't see much dust/chips at your filter is because the Clearvue is a great design. I haven't seen a coffee cups worth of dust out of my filters on my CV1800 in 15 years. Cleaning filters isn't even on my mind. Might knock around on them once every few years. Take a look under them and might see a tablespoon of dust.
I really appreciated your honesty regarding the quality of separation. This is definitely an upgrade over what you have and given your space limitations was no doubt the best option. The problem with these 'compact' cyclones is that their separation is poor, as you witnessed by the volume of dust/chips making it to your filter. Because the separation is poor and filter clogging is a problem manufacturers have to outfit their collectors with agitators. If the pleats are really tight on a filter the agitators don't work well so they have to widen the pleat spacing which translates to reduced surface area and reduced air flow. According to Pentz you want 4:1 ratio of CFM to filter surface area for a Merv15 filter. The Laguna filters are only 109 sq ft., not enough, but they had to do it because of clogging from poor separation of fines.
I definitely agree with you regarding full size collectors. If you have the space for it, get a ClearVue or make your own. This design is about as good as it gets. I have a PSI Tempest 15" impeller 3.5HP, which Bill Pentz advised on the re-design. It's similar to the Clear Vue in a lot of ways but lacks the downward pointing "air ramp" which helps a lot in basically shooting material down into the bin. I like it but will likely build a proper cyclone when I can find the time.
obvious installer error (leaks ,poor ducting, no make up air) .my shop is climate controlled. D/C is in sound proof box outside my choice. No noise pollution No air pollution . i clean my filter monthly. My A/C filter not yet. and according to my Dylos air quality meter The air in my shop is five times cleaner than outside i'm a cabinet maker..... and i dont vacuum or clean my computer screen ever BEST SYSTEM EVER maybe look at your install... GO clear vue MAKE AMERICAS AIR GREAT AGAIN
Bill Pence for President 2020 anyone makes me breathe that comfortable has my vote
Matt around the 19 minute mark I see the part that will greatly improve separation sitting on top of the lid of the drum, really easy install between the the cone and the drum! When I first got my PFLUX 3, I noticed it was separating ok but not great. You definitely should not be seeing so much large chips getting into the filter! After I contacted Laguna and installed the part it's been bang on as advertised. I think you're correct in that shorter cyclones won't be able to do as good of a job as larger, but I think these DC's are the best short barrel collectors currently on the market.
Someone else also mentioned this to me. I installed it last night but hadn't used it yet. I'm mostly frustrated that this isn't noted anywhere in the manual
It's because Laguna didn't really realize the airstream was an issue upon initial release (at first they didn't include this part with everything, but then a few people called them and explained similar issues and Laguna started including the part) post manual. It basically reshapes and tailors the airflow to give the cyclonic action a kick in the seat of the pants and make it more cyclonic. Oddly enough, this wasn't an issue with their 1.5HP C and PFlux, it's only when you get into the higher horsepower.
Wait what is this part? I bought this DC about 6 months ago and definitely don't recall having this piece.
It's called a deflector bar. Call Laguna and they'll send you one free of charge!
Matt ; have you installed the deflector bar and if so did you see any improved separation ?
I am in the midst of installing my new PFlux 3, I've read Bill Pentz's online articles, I've added a neutral vane and I am considering adding a ramp as well, Matt and Nathaniel ; would either of you have any experience with these mods ?
If you are getting a lot of chips in the filter him there might be an air leak between the emptying container and the cyclone.. My cyclone initially had the same issue.
Thanks Alex! I'll check that out
There was one time while planing and jointing I wasn't paying attention to my cyclone bin, I filled up the bin, the cyclone and all the ducting to the planer. Packed solid. It took about 2 hours to clear it out.
@6:14 love the old school Nike Legends. I wore those almost exclusively through the mid 80's :)
I built my own two-stage system similar to DIY Tyler G using a 2 hp Harbor Freight single-stage dust collector modified with an Oneida cyclone with 30 gallon trash can and a Wynn Environmental filter (9L300NANO filter with the adapter hooks FGL-6 with an orange box bucket attached to the bottom of the filter). I read somewhere that it is important that you have a straight run feeding into the cyclone cone of approximately 6 feet or more. I am using 4" pvc pipe with mostly 45 degree connections in my shop and have minimal dust collecting in my filter and the bucket. Big improvement over my two-stage shop vac design.
The straight section is one of the things Bill Pentz mentions on his website. Definitely one of those in a perfect world scenarios. Having a straight pipe coming out of this would be pretty dumb as there would be a pipe floating 4.5' off the ground acting like a wall in the shop lol
I do agree but maybe you could rearrange the pipe layout along the garage door that seems to be obstructed by the lathe.
Congratulations on getting the new DC hooked up and running! Impressive results all the way to the tools. Like that large easy to disconnect bucket with wheels too! Now you just need to put ski’s on it for winter!
Thanks for this video.As you said there's lots of statements out there about less than stellar separation but no demonstrations.
I have been wondering how well these machines worked and I really appreciate you doing this.I am using a trash can separator and it passes less chips to the secondary collection bag than the Laguna. I guess I expected the Laguna to work better than it does.
Hey Matt... great video, was surprised at how dirty the powermatic filter was... I have the Laguna 2 hp unit which I bought 2 years ago.. that also gets chips in the filter bag... good luck with the unit, looks like a great improvement over what you had...
Had wondered about the numbers on that. As impressive as the difference was, it is kind of amazing that they are still higher since you had to hold it back due to the meter.
Hell, if I knew you were going to be doing all this testing I would have offered to let you borrow some of my stuff lol I've got all kinds of toys for testing flow and pressure, including an anemometer for airflow (like you bought), manometer (for pressure), and decibel meter. Thanks for all the testing and comparisons of the two machines Matt. I know how much effort goes into that sort of thing
hahaha I didn't want to get too carried away with the test. just enough to give an idea of relative improvement. Thanks Chris!
And quite the improvement it is. It's interesting to hear the difference in tone between the two, even if the sound level is similar. A spectrum analysis would be interesting for numbers/stats/data nerds like me, but it's pretty clear that the new cyclone would be much heavier towards the upper end. More like a shop vac in comparison. You're making me think harder about a dust collector now, as I currently just have a shop vac with cyclone, and that's not sufficient for most free standing power tools. Having the cyclone is nice though, much nicer than dealing with the filter constantly.
But, then he couldn't have bought the new tools! What's the fun in that??
I have a older Clearview It's 10 years old. I have never cleaned the filters. I have a pan at the bottom of the filter. I don't get dust in them. A true cyclone get much better separation.
Hi Matt
Enjoy all your videos and this one was very informative. A couple of thoughts on your separation problem. No doubt the compact cyclone is less effective but there may be a couple of issues with your ducting at the unit. The first is the reducer at the unit inlet which will cause a decrease in air velocity prior to entering the cyclone. The decrease in wood chip velocity may be allowing more carry over. The other potential problem is the elbow at the inlet. A straight run at the inlet would likely reduce turbulence in the cyclone and improve performance.
Keep the videos coming. Great stuff
I don't disagree that those thing would make it more better but I'm sure I'm better off than those who are using the included 8 to 4 reducer with 4" flex hose hahaha thanks!!
Something you can do to improve the performance of your dust collection system is to add vibrators. They have been used on conveyance systems for many years and come a variety sizes and mountings. The magnetically mounted ones are kind of handy because they are easy to move around. You put them on your lines that have the most problems with buildup and plugging, usually the longest ones and they keep the sawdust particles from sticking to the duct walls. You probably just need small ones for here and there and they can be wired into your power tools or you can use a current sensing switch that activates them when you turn on your machines. You can even mount them on your cyclonic separator to continuously knock down wood chips into the collector bin. They are used in industry and agriculture a lot to keep conveyors from plugging up.
Hi Matt, for better chip and dust separation add the ramp like in the Clear View cyclones.
It's just startling to see how much more complex and "DIY" these systems are compared to a quality vacuum chambered dust collection system. I have a Felder RL 160, it came in a box, unpacked the box and rolled it in the shop ... ready ! Less then 1 minute. No coalcking, no screwing, no nothing. Plug and play. I can put the hose in a dustbin and it sucks it empty in seconds. No canisters, no filters, no nothing. I would never ever go back to regular dust collection. Felder really is great in that regard.
Great job putting all that data together and sharing the comparison. Next you should pipe in some lines through the attic for a total home vacuum XD
I have been wanting to put a bandsaw in our bedroom!
Matt, I have the Clearvue Cyclone in my shop with 6" ducting. Regarding pick up, It lessens what it will pick up when the 35 gal bin is about 80 full. Regarding separation, I clean my double stack of filters about once a month. I never see any chips whatsoever in the clean out, only fine particles.
have been watching you for sometime now, and it is a feel good show. you are honest and a excellent family man. always look for your new videos. keep up the great content. Thanks, in more ways always.
Matt - you can try sticking Dynamat on the metal part of the drum. this will reduce noise due to vibration, since the drum is acting as a large sounding board.
3 Dba is doubling the noise level
Not exactly:
www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm
My tempest rarely has anything at all below the filter. I typically check it every few barrel (55 gallon) changes. Make sure you don't have any leaks. Also it could be that the filter is not passing enough air through and thus slowing the cyclone separation. My tempest has a 6ft tall filter but the diameter is only 16".
same for my tempest, separation is very good. Its unfortunate PSI doesn't sell them anymore, it was a tremendous value compared to other collectors out there. Also the sound level (particularly with the exhaust muffler installed) is much lower. Similar unscientific tests for me with my iphone but I get readings in the 70's.
David Blehar I have a muffler but haven't installed it. In my 30x30 garage it is no louder than the jointer or surfacer and I already am wearing hearing protection. When I mount it more permanent I plan to add the muffler.
Definitely recommend installing it, as it does make a pretty significant difference. I had installed it out of the blocks when I got the collector. It does have the draw back of pushing the filter stack out further away from the cyclone so the whole works takes up more space, so a while back I thought, maybe I'll take that muffler off to save some room, not sure it makes a difference anyhow. Well, didn't take long to put it back on, quite a noticeable difference in sound. My collector is right next to my lathe so when I'm sanding bowls I have a chute set up for collection. With the muffler on I can stand there very comfortably without hearing protection.
Thanks for the video. I have been looking for someone (that actually knows what they're talking about) that does one on pipe diameters, velocities, CFM's and applications for the various configurations. For example, What applications need more velocity? Miter saw? How do you achieve that given pipe diameter, length, etc.
Good video bud I have the same system I love it ,what you could try doing like I did I used a couple coats of rainX on my collector window worked great on mine
GREAT job Matt, definitely an upgrade to the shop. 12:15 Hey buddy, let me get MY air filter mask then you can blast away at the filter for 7 minutes with the blower. What a friend you are! !! !!!
Hey dad, you've got the leaf blower. Mind blowing out this filter for me while you're at it?
That's a good one. What are Dad's for anyway??
As usual another fine video...I've been looking apprehensively at my old canvas double bag'er wondering if its time to upgrade....You've convinced me.
3db difference is twice the acusticenergy but the tone of noice is often more important in soundtrancferance to other rooms
Tip for you, by transitioning from your 6” to 8” right as the air enters the cyclone, you are slowing the air flow and therefore decreasing the effect from the cyclone. I had the same issue with mine and actually had much better results by running the pipe from the main system pretty far inside the fitting to the cyclone and just taping around it to seal it up.. kind of creating a nozzle shooting the air into the cyclone at a higher speed.... if that makes sense.
That's an interesting way of doing it... pretty unorthodox hahaha
Matthew Cremona , it worked great, hardly anything makes it through to the filter now...
Another option is to run as much 8" pipe as he can from the inlet of the DC. :-D
Chris Barrett that would still actually slow the air flow through that section
It does make sense. It also is a similar idea to Bill Pentz's neutral vane that he states is the easiest and most affective mod you can make to a cyclone.
Matt so the short of it is if you have the room go with a full size cyclone for better Results!!!!!! Thank gosh i didnt buy that Exact model on blackfriday weekend like i was going to
Yup. that sums up my thoughts. Thanks Luke!
My 2 y.o. son and I watched together and thoroughly enjoyed. He loves watching shop videos. The guys at a website called ToolMetrix noted on their FB page that they had the same separation issues with the 3hp unit (but not the 1.5hp unit) and called Laguna about it. Laguna sent them a “restrictor plate” to install between the cyclone and dust bin. That seemed to take care of the issue for them anyways. May want to call about it or not? Just thought I’d share...keep up the good work, love your stuff
Interesting. Thanks for the info!
Well looks like that part is included but isn't mentioned in the manual. I have some extra parts since I'm not using bags and figured this plate was some part of the bag holder. I'll install this and see what difference it makes. Thanks again
Anytime, hope it makes a difference, happy to help...
Some thing interesting that I've seen with Oneida collectors like Marc's is that while chips don't make it through the cyclone dust does and it needs to be dislodged. If he cleaned the filter per Oneida's recommendations I'm sure his dust bin would have more than he showed but still not near how much your getting. Good DC is a tough investment but after having it it's hard to consider going with out it.
Hi Matt, Do I still need to wear a respirator along with running a 1 or 2 micron dust collector to be safe?
I'm curious about the laguna dust collector as far as how well you liked it? I did notice that when you moved to a different shop you got a different one
Hey Matt, Love the Video, Re the Cyclone and efficiency. Talk to the manufacturer about minimum air flow through the cyclone to produce max efficiency. You may need more air flowing through to properly separate the chips and dust. Something worth trying is to false load (Open other blast gates) to increase flow into the cyclone, maybe on the longest run and not so much to dip the pressure to the tool you are using. Also Try to minimise the lengths of Flexi as these are where the pressure drop is greatest. Good luck..
wickie2222 Agreed. The air speed through the cyclone should have a direct effect on the separation efficiency.
So interestingly, in the video when I moved from using the jointer to the planer, I forgot to close the blast gate on the jointer. I did end up closing it when the camera angle changed and you can see the collector with the debris that got into the bag.
Hey Matt, two other points to consider. I looked at Laguna's assembly video and at7:50 ish he talks about the angle of the connector. Has says 30 deg one way and up to 60 deg the other way although he states 30 deg he demonstrates 60 deg. You seem to have yours mounted 60 deg to the Left looking from the front as he calls it and maybe this is degrading the performance to some degree .the Other point is about the Level in the Bin versus separation efficiency. Did you note any fall off in performance as the bin got up or over 70% full?
Not sure about scale, but the smaller cyclone systems seem like they do a better job... interesting test. Thanks!
The bin need a really good seal to the cyclone any small draft will lift small particles into the filter. That is the Key to save your filter.
What are the brands that offer ‘full sized’ cyclones other than the Oneida you mentioned?
Im pretty sure you will pass a fraction of that much dust past the cyclone if you can adjust your inlet pipe so the dust is shooting toward the outside wall of the cyclone vs. straight at the outlet tube. You are essentially bypassing the cyclone's most effective zone by shooting dust toward the center.
Make that change and I think you will be much happier with the results.
Excellent, honest review. Thanks Matt.
Interesting. My understanding is that HVAC pipe was not sturdy enough for a 500+ CFM dust collector. The understanding is it would collapse if one of the inlets were fully or partially blocked. What are others experience with HVAC pipe?
A cyclone is not going to pull a vacuum to do that. It only moves available air.
Matt, great video. I like how your shop looks how it looks, like you actually work in it. Ever think about donating your saw dust and shavings to horse or animal shelters?
that bin dump shot was epic.
Could the extra material coming through be to a leak or small hole somewhere in the system? On a much smaller scale, my dust deputy would throw material through to the shop vac, all because my system had a small leak between the lid and the cyclone. Just wondered if that could be the potential cause.
Absolutely. I would turn it on and put silicone on the outside of the seams, and see if that helped. It's hard to believe the capture is so poor.
I'm thinking you should be looking into making wooden pellets for burning with all the shavings you get..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this DC. I enjoyed your reasoned approach and nuanced opinion
I love that you now have insulation on the garage door ;)
Hahaha a little project I did about 5 years ago
So Matt, what we've learned after all the math is that you spent a lot of money and it really sucks.
I've been looking at adding serious dust collection to my basement shop. This video really helped!!!! I'm beginning to form a better opinion of Laguna tools. Cheers! Joe Faraone -- Ashburn, VA
Good to hear. Thanks joe!
What is that thing that knocks the loose dust and shavings off the filter and how does it work?
How much of your cyclone performance (ie. material in filter) do you think was affected by having an elbow so close to the main inlet? I've read that it's highly recommended to have at least five feet of straight pipe to minimize turbulence in the cyclone.
I would say 97% I have a similar unit and I ran 7’ straight 8” pipe to the inlet I get the same amount he showed what his friend gets
you realy need to do a bit of shop organisation, plus it would make for a very interesting serie
What kind of particle mask is that your wearing to keep the sawdust out of your lungs ?
I think given the price difference to a full size unit, I'd have built a small shed outside and run the pipe out to it. You never use the one door anyway and it would no longer block part of the door you do use. You would have gotten even better collection most likely and it would have freed up some more shop space. Plus you wouldn't have to mess with the garage door to empty the collector.
Matt, enjoy the videos, do have a question though regarding the Laguna dust collector system. Have admired their quality for awhile, what made you choose them over the many others?? I realize height played a role as will for me, also 3 hp vs. 2 hp considering the shop size? I guess what were your criteria, if you don’t mind sharing? Some of he reviews in early 17’ were not that favorable, thus the extra plate at the bottom of the cyclone etc. and your experience thus far. I am very close to order a unit trying to decide 2 vs. 3 hp maybe over kill, the extra is not that much, so thoughts?? Thanks
Dust collection is never glamorous. The price doesn't result in a new toy but it's an investment for your future health. I'm considering one
....I feel kind of awkward seeing silicon put in the negative air-pressured area..... I have not seen the outside of the box/assembly. Me, I would have dissemble and silicon everything re-assembling. A simpler way, as effective too, would be taping any outside joint. ;)
But your whole venture seems successful though :D
thank you Matt. question please do you use saw dust for a deicer ?
I got the laguna 1.5hp pflux unit and agree with your build comments. I had to use both the youtube videos as well as the instructions to put it together. I also noticed on mine the same as you did, when just starting to fill the bin, chips and dust went into the collection bin below the filter, but then once some was in the bin below the cyclone, it stopped. What was your reasoning to get that 3hp cflux vs the pflux? In any case, Good video. :)
Matt, thanks for your update. I purchased a 1 1/2 hp Laguna a few years back and its performance is not near what I would like. Is the only solution to obtaining more flow higher hp? Thanks again for your video!
Either make the system more efficient so the collector doesn't have to work as hard or add more power
Thank you Matt. I also work in my garage. Everything is on wheels, I move my wife's car out and then set up the tools. I guess I am going to look for more power. Again, really appreciate your videos!
As a side note, to get the velocity-up, you could try installing an open vent in the system, I would use an AMP-meter on the motor to find the sweet-spot of enough air through the system.
Should have sealed the seams in the bin. I seen sparks escape when you angle-ground off the screw points. That should improve the performance.
In reality, I cut the screws before applying the silicone. The clips are swapped to match what I was talking about at the time.
Matthew, i live in MN too, do you ever sell the slabs from your "urban logging"?
Bro who draws on their maple bench with a sharpie. You wylin' out Matt.
This guy 👍
Great job Matt
Matt: What gauge of steel pipe are you using? And for your non metal portions of the duct work, did you install a grounding wire?
Straight pipe is 26 gauge. No added grounding wires.
Great video!!. Is the remote control part of the unit or is that an aftermarket accessory? Thanks
Thanks! The remote is included
On that 8" to 6" adapter you should've used 4 " silver plumber's tape. The small gap you left leaks air and creates turbulence inside the pipe.
Matthew Cremona
Hindsight is always better than foresight: wouldn't it be better if you put your dust collector outside of your working area. Space and added noise would be solved.
Since you cut your own lumber you can build a double walled housing (noise and thermal insulation) just big enough to fit your dust collector ...
I don't have anywhere to go outside. Only place I could go would be in front of the overhead doors or onto our patio.
I've been looking forward to this video and it certainly doesn't disappoint! :) Thanks for the explanation of the airflow measurements too :)
Good! Thanks! :)
Would a long straight pipe going into the collector decrease the chips in the filter?
Yes
No. System is sucking air in. Not the opposite.
Great explantation and video Matt. I may have missed it, but was you old unit a 110 or 220 volt?
Thanks! The only one was wired for 110
great. I'm getting ready to set up a dc system and only have 110 available in the shop (garage). I was wondering if my 1.5hp Delta was big enough to make it worth the effort or not. Thanks again.
Was there a reason you didn't choose the pfulx, over the cflux?
Cost
Great machine. You can cut down on noise by getting rid of filter and exhaust hose to outside with a home made muffler. The advantage are no filter to clog, 100% clean air in shop, less noise, far less money spent on vacuum.
Down side is I'd be dumping my heated air outside
I've done this sort of, my DC outlet goes into the ceiling into the attic above the garage and aims at a soffit. It is a lot of noise that ends up outside, do you have any examples of a muffler Paul?
Did you need to rewire with 10 gauge and a 30 amp circuit?
I added a new circuit for the collector
Good Morning Matt,
Can you confirm if this tool's plug is a 3-prong or a 4-prong? Thanks!
Comes without a plug so you can install which ever style you prefer.
Matthew Cremona - Thanks. Is there an advantage of one over the other? Any performance degradation with a 3-prong vs 4?
3 prong is all you need. The machine has 2 hots and a ground. 4 prong would be used for dual voltage or 3 phase
A 4 prong system only adds a case ground. Does nothing for operation or performance.
That was an excellent explanation, Matt. I'm going to stick with my shop vacs for now...heck they were a big step up from nothing, which I used most of my life :>).
Anything is better than nothing, right? :)
Right :>)
Nice review, Matt. Did you go for the 230V upgrade? What do you think of the new P series?
Great info.. After all that, I just want to mention... Love the old style Nike shoes!!!!
Matt, I just want to know where you purchased The reducer.
Home center
Matthew Cremona thanks!
I’m going to check!
Three decibels is a 30% increase in noise, is it not?
Excellent information Matthew. Thank you for sharing 👍😄
Thanks Gary!
Pokey bits!! Was that a reference to AvE?
Yes :)
3 db difference is actually a doubling of the sound intensity. The db scale is logarithmic.
Yes that's correct. I was looking at it more in terms of the margin of error in my measurements being similar-ish
The cyclone needs Velocity to separate the dust-particles from the air, by using the Reducer, the cyclone is being starved, which in turn is stressing the squirrel-cage fan and keeps some of the dust in suspension into the filter., you may experience blade-failure in the future because of the air-starvation, also the motor will draw more amperage than if the air-flow is flowing at the designed rating. As for the noise, I use Auto-undercoating to deaden the sound being broadcast from the painted steel surfaces of the unit. The undercoating is sold in aerosol-cans at Auto parts stores. I hope I have helped.
Yeah, I was going to point that out myself. The drop-in/addon cyclones actually have rated velocity ranges in which they work for that very reason. With these whole system models they likely assume you're going to run the intake diameter for the bulk of the run, or he overlooked that section of the instructions.
Not so. If you have no airflow as in no gates open, the motor is still running at the advertised rpm and the amperage draw will be at the minimum for the motor. On the other hand. If you have nothing connected to the cyclone, no ducting at all. The motor will still run at the advertised rpm but the amperage draw will be at the maximum amount and will create an overheating condition in the motor.
Just vent that sucker outside to your saw dust piles. Better flow and saves you the task of dragging the bin out there. No filter required either.