Were These The FIRST Aliens...?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- #startrek #aliens #biology
In Star Trek lore, we learn that contemporary humanoid life in the Milky Way Galaxy is descended from a genetic code spread by the Ancient Humanoids, or Progenitors, who lived 4.5 billion years ago. Some have tried to make a connection between the Preservers and the Progenitors, the former being another ancient race mentioned in The Original Series. In this video I investigate both species' histories and whether there's enough evidence to conclude they're one and the same.
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- CHAPTERS -
00:00 Intro
01:52 First Humanoids History
05:50 Preservers History
08:37 Are They The Same?
11:20 Timeline Recap
13:19 Outro - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
So, what do you think? Are the Preservers and Progenitors the same? Also, what other species would you like to see me cover in a future video?
It’s possible that the Preservers and the Founders are separate offshoots off the Progenitors-one species evolved to remain solid, the other did not and started the Dominion.
The common ancestor of the Bajorans and Cardassians.
I think the ROLE of Preserver, is more of a mission statement, left by the Progenitors, but the roots often forgotten about.
We know they're still active around the 1800s, with only modestly powerful obelisks - whilst the Progenitors are extremely ANCIENT, in comparison. And might be expected to be much more advanced.
They don’t need to be the same. It’s a big galaxy. Let them be separate. There’s at least 2 billion years between confirmed actions. There could be a million or more similar civilisations to both of them within that timespan.
The changelings, I would love to dive into the history of the great link, and also wonder if the changelings could have been the preservers and progenitor, they do state that they travel the Galaxy once and we're solid I think maybe the actress playing both parts is a hint at the change links is their final form
I think the Ancient Humanoids actually being the Preservers kinda undercuts the storytelling strengths of the Ancient Humanoids. I think the near-mythical story of the first intelligent race finding themselves alone in the galaxy billions of years in the past, and in their death throes as a civilization, seed the universe with the genetic material needed to give rise to more sentience like their own. It’s like a parent giving their life to ensure the life of their child. Also the idea of a civilization that thrived for billions of years that just so happened to vanish without a trace just a few hundred years ago seems like a big plot contrivance to me.
I tend to agree. I'm glad I did this episode, because I've always taken it for granted the Preservers and First Humanoids were the same, but I think it's more appropriate that they're not. Ron Moore had an interesting idea, but as often happens, "writers sometimes just say things" 😂
Well there could be reasons. They may have evolved out of their “human like state” and disappeared or just left the Galaxy to other Galaxy’s. Or died out due to disease or some reason. Billions of years is a long time. I just love this whole story and concept.
I much agree. I can speculate that The Preservers were possibly a race who was purposely developed to help ensure the Ancient Humanoids seeded races would be helped to survive. Perhaps as some sort of genetic protection plan that is periodically activated to maintain life in the Milky Way Galaxy.
The universe is 13.7 billion years old. Earth was born 9.2 billion years afterwards and took 4.5 billion years to produce a civilization capable of space travel. During those first 9.2 billion years, the Progenitors had plenty of time to master space travel and then go extinct.
I feel it's more likely that the Preservers are just a child race of the Progenitors that found the message left in the genetic code and took it upon themselves to "preserve" the work of the Progenitors. Something that I've never looked into that just came to thought the Progenitors started the evolution of the humanoid species because there were no others they could find. What non-humanoid species could have existed either about the same time or before the Progenitors? My thought comes with the Idea of if they wanted to actually give answers to the actual time lines for some of these Ancient species they could use something non-human that predated them to give some kind of account.
That's a good idea. I had something similar, there were a seeded race or races specifically made to arise and preserve the work of the Progenitors.
I personally doubt that they are the same. Largely in that the one was indeed 4.5 billion years ago and expected themselves to disappear. The Preservers doing their thing until relatively recently, indeed, they might well be out there somewhere. It would make just as much sense for the Preservers to be the race that Gary 7 works for. Transplanting those native peoples to Amerind might have been about the same time that the ancestors of Gary 7 were taken from earth. They, like the Metrons, are also able to hide themselves from the Federation.
Albeit, if there is one thing Star Trek has taught us, it is that ancient aliens didn't follow any prime directive in regards to earth and its people.
yeah this is very interesting it’s also very cool to hear my tribe mentioned I am a Lenape
Wanishi :D
Delaware valley?
I like the idea of the Progenitors having erected the Galactic barrier, which may have been put in-place to stop non-organic sentience from entering the Milky Way, and things happening on Pickard point in this direction, and link a bunch of older lore together as well (that at some point in time, a race will either evolve to the point they no longer need physical bodies, or instead, develop artificial intelligence, which will turn on them... and it's usually the latter). This is actually a recurring theme in several Scify franchises - AI run-amok and driving out their creators, Star Trek not the least of them. As for Progenitors being the Preservers - just not seeing it. Better to tie the Preservers to one of the other named 'lost civilizations' in ST.
Good vid. Given the long history of life in the Star Trek galaxy, it's very likely that there were was more than one "preserver" style civilization IMO
It could even have become like a religion for older species, adopting the precepts of the Progenitors and trying to “Preserve” their work.
I almost forgot I was watching a video about a science fiction universe. It is amazing the complexity and the interconnection of all the episodes and possibilities this stories can "potentially tell". Simply amazing!!! You can make a career out of all this material as a possible future chronicler. Wow!!!
Just found your channel and it's quickly becoming my favorite source for star trek lore! Keep up the consistent high quality work!
We saw them in the original Battlestar Galactica series as the "Ships of Light". ;)
All Of This Has Happened Before, All Of This Will Happen Again..... So Say We All?????????????
@@raymondcanessa7208 That was only in the reboot version but well said.
The GUARDIAN OF FOREVER can answer these questions.
Maybe the Sphere Data would know too, she’s a little easier to get in touch with than Carl.
@@BirthquakeRecords well, admittedly, I do try to stay out of the way a bit, don't need the stress.
But you'll have to slow down it's presentation of events.
@@BirthquakeRecords I would say the sphere data is harder to locate and consult as you would have to find Discovery first and we only know of it's appearance in the distant future or perhaps the abandoned Discovery shown in the Shorts. Of course, if you want to talk about collected data, there would be V'ger though presumably V'ger combined with Decker moved on to explore "higher" realms.
@@johnwang9914 if you remember Spock said in the City on the edge of forever that his tricorder could record at the Guardian's speed. So the improvements and updates to the device within a 200 year time span would make that a not an issue.
Just had a baby and this channel has been entertaining me for 48 hours straight. And I haven’t watched Star Trek in probably 5 years haha. I hope hosts like you get the recognition you deserve, I have a pretty good idea how much work goes into these and I doubt many people would realize how much you put into it. But that’s good, it should seem easy to viewers. Anyway keep
It up!
Thanks Colin!
I would say the preservers evolve into changelings which resulted in them disconnecting from their children and isolating in the gamma quadrant which also caused them to eventually forget who they used to be which leads to them becoming curious and sending out babies a couple hundred years prior to report back on what they find
In the books Q Continuum brings out that Q build the both The Galactic barrier n the center of the universe barrier (Star Trek V the final frontier) also the progenitors are mentioned in that book in a time when they were at the height of their empire
I like the theory that the Q are actually future Humans who evolved beyond regular time and now mess with there own past to ultimately create themselves
If anything, I lean towards the Progenitors becoming the Changlings. We've seen biological races evolve into higher states (beings of light that can heal with a thought - can't remember the name of the TNG episode now), so maybe this first race evolved into beings that exist as the Changlings do. Then, over the millennia and millennia, they forgot who they once were. The oldest might have died or been killed by "solids", leaving a race that once felt lonely and wanted more like them, to become a race that wanted to control all solids for safety. Just a thought I had.
I definitely think the writers and production team want the viewer to connect the two. They look strikingly similar and the same actor portrays the main representative for both species.
Personally I think the Founders are narratively the "evil" Progenitors--the demons to their angels--controlling and dominating other species in contrast to the Progenitors seeding worlds and letting them develop without interference.
@@nonameronin1 could be that once their civilization collapsed, a small part was stranded. After millions of years, when the seeds did their thing, the survivors had evolved into the changelings.
@@juliandacosta6841 also didn’t this video say the Progenitors lost to the Borg at some point? Could be if they were advanced enough modify genetic code some may have become changelings to avoid being assimilated. They did show an episode where that ability can be removed/restored. So logically they could be same race. Or at least once were
@@I_Love_Quokkas not sure how that would help against the borg, other than turning into a rock or something to hide
@@juliandacosta6841 my theory was the changelings body wouldn’t allow itself to be assimilated. Basically could reject the nano probes. Double checked and seems that question has been asked a lot over the years. Generally seems Borg either can’t or never really tried to/had good opportunity to try.
Great topic selection! The super-civilizations of Star Trek have always been fascinating.
How about the species that left their negative emotions and attributes as an entitity that held a shuttle hostage in TNG?
That black glob dude who killed Tasha
A very good video Tyler especially considering you were tackling one of STAR TREKS most complicated subjects.I bet ya had a ton of research put into this one and then deciding what information to go with and what to speculate on must have made the PRESERVERS one of your most challenging works.Its great to see you always trying to expand and hone your skills.You managed to answer questions I didn't realize I had and shed light on that Galactic barrier I had asked about in an earlier episode.I don't know if ya get many comments on your ROD SERLING like voice and delivery but it sure seems to come natural to you and is an appropriate asset that fits your videos as he was one of the greatest and your future in entertainment may be as memorable.Oh, and don't forget about those THOLIANS when ya get the time !!
Thanks Jym! This actually was quite a challenging episode to construct--it was neat to see someone pick up on that. I definitely learned more than I imagined I would at the outset. And you're not the first to compliment my voice, lol!
And don't worry, I plan to cover the Tholians in due time--there's so many species I want to get to in the meantime, but I won't let them fall by the wayside.
It would be neat to learn about the Star Trek races from outside the Milky Way. If there's not enough info, maybe we could also learn about the non-humanoid races, since I don't think there's much on either of them.
I don’t this those exist
@@limalepakko6074 We've seen a few. There was Species 8976 (or whatever it was), the robotic organisms in Picard, the god-like being in that one Star Trek movie. That's all I can think of offhand, but I'm probably missing several.
Thank you so much for the high quality research in regards to the Preservers. This is very helpful as someone who spends time playing Star Trek Online.
just a Trek guy in his home talking Trek. Some great stuff love it
I love you videos, you're my favorite lore youtuber, thank you !
The discontinuity isn't necessary a discontinuity that breaks canon. Like when human dynasty ends without an heir and then someone from another dynasty adopts the last dynasty names and influences to project continuity and that can be long time down the timeline
Good job this is really interesting c:
I feel I should point out that the existence of a Borg species number doesn't mean that members of that species were assimilated, but merely encountered by the Borg.
I really like your content keep up the awesome videos looking forward to the next one!
this is very relevant at the moment..nice work
Liking your content. Big Star Trek fan myself. Thanks for these awesome vidzzz
It always bugged me that during 'Distant Origin' that the Voyager crew didn't show the Voth an image and DNA sample of Saurians, since the Preservers saved a few dinosaurs from earth, they could have proved an indisputable link.
That was awesome dude!!
I enjoy your work on Star Trek.
You are so impressively thought provoking and thorough in every vid- thank you!
Amazing video as usual!
I read somewhere that there might be as many as 4 to 6 waves of perservers since the birth of our sun.
fuck rodrigo's
@@ivanmoncada7574 yeah where do they get off.
Many years ago, von Daniken had described a hypothesis identical to the Ancient Humanoids in the episode "The Chase".
Could it be that the writers of this episode read Daniken's books?
Learned a few things today! Excellent job. I’ll be back.
I was just waiting for a reference to mycelial network and the associated cut scene, and I was not disappointed!
@OrangeRiver, we need to talk about the Thrintum AKA Slavers, part of Larry Niven's Known Space book series and originally introduced in Star Trek TAS . I'm not 100% if it is canon but I heard TAS was canon so perhaps it is. Sort of similar to Halo, there was a galactic reset where Slavers or Thrinum sent out a signal for all sentient life to die. I'd like to know how other species that lived during this time, such as the Progenitors would have coped with this.
Rewatching the originals since New Years and this is where I am up to. Can't help but think how the creator of the Alien prequels must've seen this.
I wonder if they could have also been "The Old Ones" from ' What are little girls made of? ' TOS.
I remember a Star Trek book that centered around a Medieval human civilization that was transplanted by the Preservers but I can't remember the title
I enjoy all Space Opera on TV & online, Thanks a bunch!
I’m not a big star trek fan, but I love these looks into the more interesting background aspects of the world
Nicely done. If I may be silly for a moment, I think the symbols on the Preserver obelisk are chevrons for a Stargate address. Have a good day.
Thanks that was very interesting I have not given much thought to the PRESERVERS. I did like the TOS The Paradise Syndrome and the NG episode with the Preservers. I think the Horta Being a Silicon based life form like the Thoilians are interesting in TOS The Devil in the Dark
I'm unsure if the preservers and progenitors are one, and the same. But there's certainly no shortage of directions on which speculation can take!
My hope is the various different current series will tackle the subject in more than an off hand sort of way. Hadn't considered that the preservers may have transplanted some of the ancient Romans to the planet shown in "Bread and Circuses," but it's clearly a strong possibility.
Keep up the fine quality of your videos. I admire the effort you obviously put into them.
Thank you for your excellent presentation. As to your question, the evidence is at best inconclusive.
Interesting Thank you for making this video, live long and prosper 🖖
Very well done
Ok here’s some questions for future episodes.
Are the shape shifters from NG Dauphin the same as the Dominion Changlings? Why did Odo not know about this race if Picard documented his encounter in Starfleet records.
Are the Preservers the same as the Iconians. Did the Preservers become Q. How are the Q and Prophets related. How is the Traveler related to Q. What quadrants on the map are celestial organisms native? The beings from Farpoint station, Tinman and the baby the NG has to wean off the ship.
So, could have the preservers resettled the voth? Maybe to save them from the meteor that hit earth or a different catastrophy? I mean, if the voth had became a starfaring civilization on earth itself, there would have been remainings of their civilization to be found.
It's amazing that fantasy can go into ao much detail. I'm a Treker... watched it since a kid in the 60's.... mever ready any of the books.
Where do I start?
I think it was Mitchi Okaku that mentioned why so many species on Earth have 4 limbs saying it was the most efficient mode of locomotion for nature.
Why is a soap bubble round? Same reason, it's the most efficient shape.
Good video
My take is Preservers and Progenitors are two groups, deriving from a common parent group. Parallel devlopments derived from common ancestor, which explins similarities and differences.
In the STNG book Vendetta the preservers built the planet killer shaped like a cone to battle the Borg thousands of millenia ago. This was early in the Borg lore because they "rescued" a Borg that wouldn't be deprogrammed.
Honestly if they are from the gamma quadrant it definitely helps with the fan theory that they became the changelings.
Omg you mentioned the andorian Obelisk I'm not sure if you already known about it? But either way thank you for putting that in their it's canon lore at least even If the show possibly never explore that with the andorians I'll be happy if they just explore more of the ancient worlds and civilizations and the preservers again and this was a great video it's helps me work fanfiction ideas for star trek
It’s possible that the Preservers and the Founders are separate offshoots off the Progenitors-one species evolved to remain solid, the other did not and started the Dominion.
How about the genetic experiment which resulted in the ending of their species actually resulted in them losing their ability to maintain solid form for long, thus becoming the Founders? Weyoun 6 explained to Odo that the Founders genetically altered his species to become humanoid, and also created the Jem'Hadar. It also gives a great canon explanation for the same actress playing both roles... it's a remnant of the same being.
What if the progenitors branched off into different groups, like the preservers, the founders and the borg.
Sebaceans from Farscape!
An early video on my channel I talk about Galactic History I assume the preservers are a different race. But I do highlight several other planets I think they are linked too. By not combining the preservers with other races I do create a much richer history of the Star Trek universe.
My theory is the preserves were the creators of the androids in I Mud...they had great love of preserving life but did not see artificial life as life only tools...the androids rebelled and became the AI threat that was the main threat in picard. They have vastly superior tech and hatred for life which would imply they got it from a very powerful living species which is now wiped out..preservers fit the description
This young man obviously is educated he understands science and he understands thought and Imagination and future prospects of the world and the universe very good show
I always preferred the theory of parallel evolution from TOS times over the progenitors from TNG.
The idea that under similar circumstances and evolutionary pressures life would develop similar bodies. Similar to convergent evolution here on earth. Like how fish, dolphins, reptiles and birds have come up with the same shape for swimming, or how wings have developed at least thrice, with differences from their different lineage, but also striking similarities.
You answered questions I didn't know I had. -_-
Thanks?
Video update time my friend!! 😂😂
This guy is awesome
Aagainst the idea that preservers have been assimilated by the he Borg speaks that only a couple hundred years earlier the Borg were insignificant in the delta quadrant.
Well I'd like to hear more about the Caren.
In regards to the Preserver obelisk we see in Discovery, I personally don't think that Lorca was specifically naming the places that Burnham was seeing on her "mushroom trip". I don't think that Lorca even knew what she was seeing. He was just naming off places. For one, Romulas looked far more like Vulcan, and from what we know of Andor/Androria it doesn't look like a marshy temperate planet. I just don't think we were seeing Andor there. It's a little too small universe to have an obelisk on Andor. Plus, it doesn't even make sense in terms of canon. Yes, an argument can be made that it's Andor, but it's tenuous at best.
I think it was supposed to be another place in the Andorian system--but I agree that Lorca probably didn't know exactly what or where Michael was seeing either.
@@OrangeRiver It could have been, but I think it was just some random place in the galaxy or universe. Andorians are a founding member of the Federation and had a relationship with Vulcan for a long time before that. It seems likely that by the time of TOS Spock, and even Kirk, would have at least a passing familiarity with the obelisk. Judging from Spock's reeducation in ST:IV it's a bit of a stretch that he wouldn't know about an alien obelisk on a moon of Andoria.
Plus, the moon looks like there isn't any advanced civilization one would expect from the Andorians.
Those reasons, plus the fact that Lorca isn't aware of what Burnham is seeing (he isn't in the mushroom tank with Michael), it's more than a stretch to declare it canon.
Great video, though! I just love delving into canon like like this. Lol :)
@@avenuePad Thanks! That makes a lot of sense, yeah. Glad you enjoyed the video! I'm looking forward to delving into more species each month.
Maybe after a while, the Progenitors got tired of being the only species around and decided to skip time by hiding in a black hole waiting to be contacted by future species.
A lot of this material and back ground was well covered in the animated series.
Maybe the Presevers are hibernating and pop up from time to time to check on the galaxy? They could also use time travel to accomplish this. Also natural evolution isn't guided as such it is possible that they acended somehow but a non acended faction are still around in hiding. It is possible that they are not hiding but just unaware of their ancestors accomplishments. A real live example of this are the Maya people who built cities in the jungles but left behind hunter gatherers barely out of the stone age aquiring modern technology from outsiders. Maybe the Preservers isn't a species at all but just a faction within ancient species? In that case they could be viewed more as a massive scale antrophological science project that most of them knew little or nothing about.
Well like a lot of different sci-fi franchises including Stargate some of these species like the borg have like multiple moments of evolution so therefore you could have the ancient board as well as the Veger borg that affect the the greater Borg as a whole. I don't know if it was meant for Canon or it was just to fix weaknesses but we don't see the borg Queen until around first contact leaving us to believe that at least her greater role came about because of Hugh.
Here is an idea for you, I wonder if there is any connection between the borg origins and the machine world that turned voyager into v'ger?
I could have used more pics to help keep progenitor and preservers straight.
You didn't mention the Star trek novel, The First Frontier, what a race of dinosauroids that were transplanted from Earth to evolve on another planet. Then tried to change their history on Earth by altering the asteroid hit Earth 64m years ago.
I'd love a video on species 8472
maybe the Preserver didn't just come into conflict with the Borg 2 billion years ago. it could be that what would become the Borg was an extremist faction of the Preserver that sees Assimiliation into the immortal Collective as an ultimate act of preservation.
In the novels Q created the galactic barrier to stop a being like them from entering the galaxy
This is as good as watching the shows
I think the Progenitors are also the Founders. Besides just having the same actress, the Founders/Progens have a common trait. Their love for genetics. Maybe the space virus they made turned them in to jelly.
I subscribed…. Now I have to go back to your first video.
Beware, my production quality has...um... _changed_ a lot in the past few years lol
Wouldn't it be amazing to hear this guy around a campfire in a night full of stars?
Sorry for a second reply, but I've been researching ST lore quite a bit lately, and as I said in my other post, I strongly disagree that the Progenitors & Preservers are the same group. However, I've come up with a personal theory that reconcile the discrepancies - what if 'Preserver' were a _title,_ not a species? Thus we have the Progenitors, and then millions of years later we have an offshoot (humanoid) of them discovering their ruins and learning from them, and continuing their great work? Then that species dies-back, and a million or so years later another does the same thing, and so on, and so forth. In that way, we could have a series of 'Preserver Races' that have been copying what the Progenitors were all about, with one having been active relatively recently (Talosians?) It might not even be something done purposefully - wouldn't the Federation itself be looked upon as a 'preserver' species in the distant future? It could just be a byproduct of colonizing, in most cases.
It's unlikely they are the same species, as the galaxy saw the rise and fall of many galaxy-spanning civilizations since the ancient humanoids. The preservers may also be the "sky spirits" that first visited Earth 45,000 years ago, who are themselves also humanoid, but clearly not the ancient humanoid species.
Needless to say, the time difference is simply too great. The only things we could potentially (and very hypothetically) link to the ancient humanoids are indeed the galactic barriers, but also the Guardian of forever. We know the guardian and humanoids are well over 4.5 bya old. The only other species from that time period we know of are the Q, and they tend keep to themselves.
The preservers may be the same species as the progenitor but I think the progenitors engineered the preservers to help them rise again (in the form of sentient life)
it was also strange that after they Made this huge dicovery, that they just forgot all about it, and next episode after and on, it was all forgotten about!
Is there anything on the Hurq? Or is that just for non Canon stuff
Wait...Enterprise has a character named after one of the best mycologists on the planet?!? I somehow missed the name until now. Paul Stamets is a treasure!
I followed a few links, and I found a short video of the actress who played such a progenitor. Very interesting to see the real person, out of costume, and without the makeup.
Right? As far as makeup technology has come in the 21st century, it's still incredible to see what they were able to pull off on a TV budget in the early 1990s.
the only problem i found is the borg in voyager its stated they are no more than 2000 years old at most so they dont fit in your time line
I’d like to see an episode where we find that the Charonians and the M-113 species were transplanted on other planets and they survived extinction.
All your videos are phenomenal! Pls keep up the great work! But would you PLEASE stop flashing words or pictures across the screen for only three or four frames as I am old and can’t read them that fast. Thank you,be safe.
The ancient humanoids that seeded the galaxie look strangely like the founders from ds9
Looks like the shapeshifters in DS9!
The preservers are still out there🤔👍
Do you think the preservers are the ones that saved a group of Chakotay's tribe?
Gary 7, and Dr.Who are rivals.
They went to the same school of time travel.
I think it's more likely the Preservers are a race the Progenitors made to carry on their work after they died